Guild Wars 2

BobbyStein.2315:

Brutal Arts.6307:

Yargesh.4965:

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

So a vague and convoluted answer is the correct way to think about a vague and convoluted piece of content?

Basically the devs were busy so they only had enough time to make 2 weeks of content and stretched it out into two months. Now that they’re done fixing minion AI and solving world hunger (pfffffft) we’ll return to our regularly scheduled hitting things til they die.

What we’ve released so far is teaser content. Our next release, Flame & Frost: The Razing, is where the story and characters ramp up.

I’m thinking the players actually would have rather you just released all the content at once, which would have ultimately required more time to prepare, so that they could complain you’re releasing content too slow…then when it’s finally released, blow through it in an hour and then complain some more that it wasn’t enough.

Leo G.4501:

BobbyStein.2315:

Brutal Arts.6307:

Yargesh.4965:

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

So a vague and convoluted answer is the correct way to think about a vague and convoluted piece of content?

Basically the devs were busy so they only had enough time to make 2 weeks of content and stretched it out into two months. Now that they’re done fixing minion AI and solving world hunger (pfffffft) we’ll return to our regularly scheduled hitting things til they die.

What we’ve released so far is teaser content. Our next release, Flame & Frost: The Razing, is where the story and characters ramp up.

I’m thinking the players actually would have rather you just released all the content at once, which would have ultimately required more time to prepare, so that they could complain you’re releasing content too slow…then when it’s finally released, blow through it in an hour and then complain some more that it wasn’t enough.

They have added in content in the past 2 updates it may not be comply related to the story but they have added in some. The thing is if they put it all in one big update what dose that do to the story? You have ppl coming down from the “hills” and then right after they are attked once they get into the cities or try to build and then a “hero” comes into play to do something about all of it all at once would be very confusing. Also you got to think of what type of DL that would be for ppl it would take days to update that much new content for each player and all the bugs that would show up the game would need to go down for a time to fix every thing.

Bobby do you know if you going to keep it this is with soo many teasers and the action only in the end?

Or there is going to be more action in the next Living Stories?

Because we quite don’t need that much of teasers, maybe a mix of teasers and action.

I’d be a nice tease if things started to change on the map…but they really haven’t. Butcher’s Block is still going as if nothing is going on. You never saw refugees actually fleeing from the winds or being chased by the Flame Legion/Dredge (those would have made nice events). You hardly interacted with the refugees at all, and when you did, they had nothing to say.

Honestly, if this was a teaser, it should have been rolled out quietly. No announcement. Then the players would be going nuts trying to figure out what it all means before getting hit with the real content.

azureai.9764:

You never saw refugees actually fleeing from the winds or being chased by the Flame Legion/Dredge (those would have made nice events).

. . . I’m sorry, what did you think they were marching down the roads with pack animals from? Bad seafood?

Honestly, if this was a teaser, it should have been rolled out quietly. No announcement. Then the players would be going nuts trying to figure out what it all means before getting hit with the real content.

It’s been rolled out quietly bit by bit as they announce it. I’m totally serious. They said “we’re starting the Living Story ‘Frost and Flame’, keep an eye out” and roughly every week there’s been small changes to the world. Homesteads and other structures appearing on the map, increased refugee traffic, a camp taking shape in each Hoelbrak and the Black Citadel.

BobbyStein.2315:

Brutal Arts.6307:

Yargesh.4965:

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

So a vague and convoluted answer is the correct way to think about a vague and convoluted piece of content?

Basically the devs were busy so they only had enough time to make 2 weeks of content and stretched it out into two months. Now that they’re done fixing minion AI and solving world hunger (pfffffft) we’ll return to our regularly scheduled hitting things til they die.

What we’ve released so far is teaser content. Our next release, Flame & Frost: The Razing, is where the story and characters ramp up.

Hello Bobby,

I appreciate you responding to this thread, and have great respect for you holding your cool after all the previous posts.

I have some constructive feedback going forward.

when I logged in after taking a break from the game, I got a piece of mail saying go to Black Citadel. So I took the portal from LA to Black Citadel.. I then talked to a guy and he said that everyone went to Lion’s Arch. I thought I had missed the event, so I went back to LA and talked to someone who gave me very little info about what was going on. My end conclusion was that the event was over and I missed it, because this is just sending me in circles.

I suggest that:

1. have more in-game and less in-mail notices regarding the event.

2. Have NPCs come up to me rather than me up to them.

3. Make it clear where I am supposed to go (between LA and Black Citadel apparently).

4. When updates occur, make sure it is known. I read on the forums that 2 more refugee possessions are available to collect, but have yet to see anything in-game telling me this.

Thanks for the heads up Bobby! Sounds like March will be fun!
This is the communication we need

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

Well, thank you for the terse, blunt, but ultimately illuminating response!

I’m so glad to know that the last two “chapters” of this Living Story have been nothing but a puff of smoke and a pocket mirror meant to provide the illusion of new content when there really wasn’t any, due to ANet’s inability to actually provide said content.

I also had wondered if I was somehow just “missing something” with the living story. Glad to know I’m not crazy and that this indeed has just been “placeholder” content put in the game just so you could say you provided new content for the month.

Now, the big question is “when will ANet actually deliver some meat and will it actually make up for the past two months of content famine”?

If the next update is just a repeat of the last two updates, things may start to get really ugly.

Have you ever seen a movie teaser? an upcoming game teaser? They are supposed to excite you; get you pumped up for what is to come. You released this ‘live event’ with an ingame inbox, and we all warped to check to out.
Such a waste of time so far, i’m sure you understand Bobby.

Fiontar.4695:

Now, the big question is “when will ANet actually deliver some meat and will it actually make up for the past two months of content famine”?

If the next update is just a repeat of the last two updates, things may start to get really ugly.

If you aren’t satisfied with the rate of new content, cancel your subscription. That’ll teach them!

TexZero.7910:

Eladriel.7295:

Never ceases to amaze me… Anet gives you something to do, a mystery to figure out, a way to make the world seeming to evolve and change in a permanent way and you complain about it. Things happen in our world that are unexplained until someone solves the mystery.. Why don’t you, instead of going through with blinders on make your toon apart of the world and look around you and actually see what is going on.

I beg to differ on this.

The world will still exist and change with or with my character interaction. It’s a scripted event and in no way is actually a living breathing or even cognizant of my existence in its role.

Contrast that to the world changing events of “The Lost Shores”. You actually felt more involved in the development of the world, where as with this event its being built by NPC’s for NPC’s with no assistance needed by players. To call this “living” is a joke to any real living systems.

I wanted to save those whales in Lion’s Arch. My asura ele ran back and forth and back and forth pouring water on them and even tried to revive the dead one with
electricity. To no avail, of course. They were just set dressing. And then one day, poof. They were just gone.

Saving those whales would have been awesome. For me, anyway.

tolunart.2095:

Fiontar.4695:

Now, the big question is “when will ANet actually deliver some meat and will it actually make up for the past two months of content famine”?

If the next update is just a repeat of the last two updates, things may start to get really ugly.

If you aren’t satisfied with the rate of new content, cancel your subscription. That’ll teach them!

I’ve been spending much more than the equivalent of a sub fee monthly since launch to support the game. (The most I’ve spent on gems in a month has been $100, the average is a bit less than that). This month I’ve embargoed gem purchases for the first time over frustration with ongoing development. I’ll re-evaluate gem purchases next month based on the next big patch.

Revenue from users may be more difficult to track than with a subscription model, but some of us have provided ongoing financial support for the game well beyond the traditional $15/month sub fee and we can and should reward solid updates with purchases and withhold funds when ANet fails to deliver.

I am all for new content, but I echo that just putting it out there and not a big announcement would have been better.

This would be a true teaser. heck put a few red herrings around also. None of that takes much effort, and will keep the players guessing, talking etc.

Right now they just ripped thru stuff that takes 10 min and stand around waiting for more. If not ready to release more (which I understand, trust me), then rolled it out different, without the fan fare and build up.

well they did say they would be hard to find, but I would agree having the heralds giving out hints would be nice

Lysico.4906:

I am all for new content, but I echo that just putting it out there and not a big announcement would have been better.

This would be a true teaser. heck put a few red herrings around also. None of that takes much effort, and will keep the players guessing, talking etc.

Right now they just ripped thru stuff that takes 10 min and stand around waiting for more. If not ready to release more (which I understand, trust me), then rolled it out different, without the fan fare and build up.

Yes, that would have made sense, but they needed to fluff up the teasers to cover for the fact that there really wasn’t much actual content in the January/February patches. They needed to preserve the illusion that they were updating and adding content monthly. They also had the problem where Colin had teased that between January and March we’d see “an expansion’s worth of content”.

I’d also note that we were told, once again I believe by Colin in an interview months ago, that they would be constantly adding new events to the world and that by the end of year one, there would likely be 2X to 3X as many events in the game, with some rotating in and out and some just expanding the overall available content in each zone. We are six months in and I’d be surprised if we’ve had more than a 10% increase in DEs in the game world.

Something just is not working with the way the company has positioned itself for ongoing development. The recent announcement that they aren’t working on an expansion removed the reasonable excuse that many of us assumed accounted the the lack of productive results.

It’s sort of looking like they need to reorganize their teams and hire some more people for key areas were they seem to be short right now, like writing, artists/modelers and especially coders.

This could be a $1billion+ game easily, but it won’t happen if they aren’t willing to put the resources into it that are needed to ensure it snowballs into the massive hit it can and should become.

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

Then it’s not monthly content patches then, is it?

Stop peddling it that way.

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

Teasers are great, but they are still suppose to explain to the person in a short time what is going on, i feel this wasn’t done properly, as others have said too vague and mysterious and very little information. Everyone i ask about flame and frost either have no clue what its about or just no longer care, very few are actually still interested by this event, maybe when it ramps up people will take notice but as of now, not really.

Also just having it in two maps was not enough to bring people back to open world in my opinion..
I personally would have preferred just to follow a story not all this secret stuff i lose interest in after 10 mins of searching..

BobbyStein.2315:

Fiontar.4695:

Yes, that would have made sense, but they needed to fluff up the teasers to cover for the fact that there really wasn’t much actual content in the January/February patches. They needed to preserve the illusion that they were updating and adding content monthly.

Actually, we’ve been adding a lot of content each month of 2013 but most of it hasn’t been related to the Living Story. That’s because the Living World teams were ramping up design and development while other teams were completing their projects. Here’s what we’ve released in the past two months.

January update contents: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-January-28-2013/first#post1321870

• Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs
• Dailies/Monthlies
• Achievement tracking UI
• Fractal reconnect
• Guesting
• Orr polish
• PvP map
• Bug fixes
• Skill balance
• Etc.

February update contents: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-February-26-2013/first#post1639231

• Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs (phase 2)
• Spirit Watch PvP map
• Item preview
• Guild Bounty, Guild Rush, Guild Trek, etc.
• Bug fixes
• Skill balance
• Etc.

In short, January and February were teaser months for the Living Story. March and April will have much more story content. As always, we appreciate your patience and look forward to hearing your thoughts once you’ve had a chance to play the new stuff.

I sympathize from where you are coming from and think this is probably more the responsibility of the marketing team but there has been way too much over hype into the living story as it currently is. This has resulted in the incredibly unsatisfying experience that is the current living story, as attested by countless topics like these. The biggest culprit in this was that what was advertised was parts 1 and 2 of 4. What we actually got was part 0.1 and 0.2 of 4.

I honestly like the concept and am looking forward to where it goes. I love the fact that you are trying to re-emerge the player with the lore and beauty of the open world. But I have to disagree with the roll out process which overly hyped lackluster content resulting in unsatisfied customers. And frankly with the bad taste that living story has left in many players mouths, I am not overly optimistic that people will actually check out the next release without just writing it off as another lackluster teaser.

Hey Bobby,

I think, one of the biggest excitement for me leading up the Lost Shores event was seeing these little unannounced hints in the world. Beached whales, warning signs, and random ships appearing in LA harbor and whatnot.

In my opinion, I think “teasers” should just go unannounced. Just comparing the Lost Shores build-up and the Flame and Frost teaser, the Lost Shores was just so much more exciting despite its much smaller scale because of it’s unannounced nature.

But I’m incredibly happy and grateful that you guys are building the framework. Maybe you didn’t hit the spot this time, but I am so utterly excited for what’s happening in the future.

BobbyStein.2315:

Anzu.5702:

.[…] But I have to disagree with the roll out process which overly hyped lackluster content resulting in unsatisfied customers. And frankly with the bad taste that living story has left in many players mouths, I am not overly optimistic that people will actually check out the next release without just writing it off as another lackluster teaser.

Noted. We’ll try to improve on that.

I think a huge part of the problem is delivery. I concur with the it’s a .01 and .02 release comment. Those heralds are practically useless, and unless you’ve explored the appropriate zones and paid attention to the lore, you’re left wondering where to go, having to go so far as look it up online in order to figure out how to progress.

I’ve played since beta, have GW1 under my belt, and have unlocked all of the PvE map, so I think that made it easier to sort out the scavenger hunt content. My roommate on the other hand, -who’s new-, walks around like a lost lemming, without the slightest idea where to go/what to do. I don’t even think he’s aware the trinket tasks exist, and he doesn’t read up every post on gw2.com as I do on what’s new.

It would be great to see some variation of a Living Story (renown) Heart for NPCs that have objectives, visible indicators of the ones (filled heart) that you’ve helped, and less obscure/hidden tasks. Find a way to mesh it into the mini-map, even if it involves a huge Living Story circle for an actively selected task.

In the end, if I have to alt-tab into a browser and cheat, that just detracts from the overall experience. There’s no sense of accomplishment. And that was just about 90% of the Halloween scavenger hunt.

tl;dr: I love what y’all are working on. It’s the implementation that needs work. Glad to hear y’all are going to improve it!

BobbyStein.2315:

Fiontar.4695:

Yes, that would have made sense, but they needed to fluff up the teasers to cover for the fact that there really wasn’t much actual content in the January/February patches. They needed to preserve the illusion that they were updating and adding content monthly.

Actually, we’ve been adding a lot of content each month of 2013 but most of it hasn’t been related to the Living Story. That’s because the Living World teams were ramping up design and development while other teams were completing their projects. Here’s what we’ve released in the past two months.

January update contents: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-January-28-2013/first#post1321870

• Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs
• Dailies/Monthlies
• Achievement tracking UI
• Fractal reconnect
• Guesting
• Orr polish
• PvP map
• Bug fixes
• Skill balance
• Etc.

February update contents: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-February-26-2013/first#post1639231

• Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs (phase 2)
• Spirit Watch PvP map
• Item preview
• Guild Bounty, Guild Rush, Guild Trek, etc.
• Bug fixes
• Skill balance
• Etc.

In short, January and February were teaser months for the Living Story. March and April will have much more story content. As always, we appreciate your patience and look forward to hearing your thoughts once you’ve had a chance to play the new stuff.

You guys have definitely added features, but very light on content. I exclude Guild Missions from content delivered to players, because the gating of access to them is so absurd that maybe 95% of players have no access unless they guild leech. Besides, bounties, though I’m sure taking some amount of resources to develop, don’t really offer much in the way of actual playable content.

Feature rich, content light and some of that content unreasonably gated, that’s what leaves many of us frustrated.

As we are talking about content, I cant help myself but do the following to that list trying to be as objective as i can:

Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs [content]
Dailies/Monthlies [feature]
Achievement tracking UI [feature]
Fractal reconnect [feature]
Guesting [feature]
Orr polish [gameplay experience enhancement]
PvP map [content]
Bug fixes [maintenance]
Skill balance [gameplay experience enhancement]
Etc. [?]

and:

Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs (phase 2) [content]
Spirit Watch PvP map [content]
Item preview [feature]
Guild Bounty, Guild Rush, Guild Trek, etc. [content]
Bug fixes [maintenance]
Skill balance [gameplay experience enhancement]
Etc. [?]

so to sum it up, we’ve got:

Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs [content]
Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs (phase 2) [content]
PvP map [content]
Spirit Watch PvP map [content]
Guild Bounty, Guild Rush, Guild Trek, etc. [content]

and now with my opinion:

>> flame&frost 1&2 (miniscule)
>> 2x PvP maps (i loved pvp in gw1, does anyone still pvp in gw2?)
>> guild missions (absurd implementation)

so basically its juts flame and frost

dont get me wrong, i am not complaining about the lack of content or similar, but what i dont like is when someone tries to sell me an egg for an apple…..eeerm…ya know

BobbyStein.2315:

• Guild Bounty, Guild Rush, Guild Trek, etc.

Haven’t done any of that ‘content’. Based on the prerequisites, probably never will. Thanks anyway. What else ya got?

I don’t think his enumerating what has been released in the two months in 2013 was necessarily to claim “here are all these other things that we did, why don’t you go do these things instead” but rather to say something more along the lines of “these are all the systems that we’ve been working on while also doing the living story and now that they are done we can allot more resources to the living story”.

It’s a pretty flawed argument to claim that “because I’m not going to be playing it, then it’s not content” or insinuate that because something isn’t necessarily applicable to you it isn’t a valued addition to the game/doesn’t take up resources in development.

I’m all for giving feedback on the personal story – I also thought that the content was very over-hyped – but not only is a claim that these additions are somehow not worth adding to the game irrelevant, it’s also just plain incorrect.

BobbyStein.2315:

azureai.9764:

Honestly, if this was a teaser, it should have been rolled out quietly. No announcement. Then the players would be going nuts trying to figure out what it all means before getting hit with the real content.

Agreed.

i feel sorry for you guys. seems like it’s impossible to strike a good balance.. if you don’t announce anything, people will complain and if you do announce stuff, people will still complain.

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

And that is exactly why the Living Story is so massively flawed.

What you call “teaser content” we call “lack of content”.

I understand your trying to build hype and suspense for things to come, but the reality is you have given us ONE WEEK worth of content and have stretched it out of the months of January, February and March.

Perhaps if you were advertising a movie, or a new shop about to open this kind of teasing would work very well. But this is a GAME, we wont monthly content that actually gives us content that LASTS A MONTH!

Two things that need to happen to fix the Living Story:

1. MORE CONTENT. The lack of content right now in this game is deeply disturbing, other MMO’s are doing are far superior job at releasing far greater and better quality content.

2. Traditional quests. The Living Story right now is confusing, empty, massive disaster. I think traditional quests like in Guild Wars 1 and other mmo’s are needed to help us the player feel more immersed in the story, the action, the characters.

As it is right now the Living Story is one of the most poorly implemented and poorly designed features in MMO’s history. Whoever thought giving us one weeks worth of content and stretching it over 4 months was a good idea should be fired immediately.

Dafomen.7892:

As we are talking about content, I cant help myself but do the following to that list trying to be as objective as i can:

Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs [content]
Dailies/Monthlies [feature]
Achievement tracking UI [feature]
Fractal reconnect [feature]
Guesting [feature]
Orr polish [gameplay experience enhancement]
PvP map [content]
Bug fixes [maintenance]
Skill balance [gameplay experience enhancement]
Etc. [?]

and:

Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs (phase 2) [content]
Spirit Watch PvP map [content]
Item preview [feature]
Guild Bounty, Guild Rush, Guild Trek, etc. [content]
Bug fixes [maintenance]
Skill balance [gameplay experience enhancement]
Etc. [?]

so to sum it up, we’ve got:

Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs [content]
Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs (phase 2) [content]
PvP map [content]
Spirit Watch PvP map [content]
Guild Bounty, Guild Rush, Guild Trek, etc. [content]

and now with my opinion:

>> flame&frost 1&2 (miniscule)
>> 2x PvP maps (i loved pvp in gw1, does anyone still pvp in gw2?)
>> guild missions (absurd implementation)

so basically its juts flame and frost

dont get me wrong, i am not complaining about the lack of content or similar, but what i dont like is when someone tries to sell me an egg for an apple…..eeerm…ya know

Did we really get two maps? I play PvP I only remember one PvP map this year, Spirit Watch. The last map to be added before that was in 2012 called Temple of the Silent Storm. It blows my mind that you listed a new map in January as someone who works for the company you should know better. The list you provided for January is all just bugs and improvements that would have gotten fixed or added with weekly updates if this was Everquest 1. This is a quote from the official January patch notes.

“We’ve updated the game for routine maintenance only. No content changes were included.” – Mark Katzbach
Community Special Operations

There was no map added in January this should be corrected. Since i’m posting this thread will now be closed and locked, and I will be infracted. I will now quote the famous Porky Pig – “So long folks!”

I like the idea that things are happening, but this so called teaser doesn’t seem to be teasing at much. What the developers want me to be aware of is that The Flame Legion and Dredge are working together and driving out Charr and Norn. That’s good and all but this only intrigues me on a superficial level; the changes just aren’t deep enough to get me invested in all your efforts. What kinds of social and psychological effects will this have on the inhabitants of Tyria? What kinds of cultures are lost. How is the economy being affected? How are the pre-existing NPCs reacting to this change?I know these questions don’t sound interesting, but to make an actual “living” story, the story needs to address issues on this level.

And I agree with the TC’s point. The objectives are far too vague. If you want something of a scavenger hunt, you need to at least give some clues, and “somewhere on x map” is not a very good clue.

Aelelan.1639:

I don’t think his enumerating what has been released in the two months in 2013 was necessarily to claim “here are all these other things that we did, why don’t you go do these things instead” but rather to say something more along the lines of “these are all the systems that we’ve been working on while also doing the living story and now that they are done we can allot more resources to the living story”.

It’s a pretty flawed argument to claim that “because I’m not going to be playing it, then it’s not content” or insinuate that because something isn’t necessarily applicable to you it isn’t a valued addition to the game/doesn’t take up resources in development.

I’m all for giving feedback on the personal story – I also thought that the content was very over-hyped – but not only is a claim that these additions are somehow not worth adding to the game irrelevant, it’s also just plain incorrect.

What is just plain incorrect is the manner in which that ‘content’ was presented. That particular ‘content’ could have been presented in a manner which would have allowed every guild, large or small or in between, to begin their participation in and enjoyment of the ‘content’ right away, without any delay wrought by exclusive and prohibitive prerequisites. There should have been two and only two prerequisites for getting started with Guild Missions:

1) have a Guild Wars 2 account, and
2) be in a guild.

That’s all.

Flawed argument or not, I maintain that such ‘content’ does not count as ‘content’ for those excluded – by design! – from the ‘content’.

As for the Living Story, as I’ve said previously, I don’t see much life or much story – but! I have at least been able to repair signs and pick up mementos and find lost personal items and fight invaders without having to fulfill some exclusive and prohibitive prerequisite. Other than having a Guild Wars 2 account, of course.

I honestly like the concept and am looking forward to where it goes. I love the fact that you are trying to re-emerge the player with the lore and beauty of the open world. But I have to disagree with the roll out process which overly hyped lackluster content resulting in unsatisfied customers. And frankly with the bad taste that living story has left in many players mouths, I am not overly optimistic that people will actually check out the next release without just writing it off as another lackluster teaser.

Yeah, I have to agree, Jan and Feb should not have been hyped up because practically nothing happened there. It did give me reason to send a few of my alts into Wayfarers and Diessa a few times, for what’s that worth, but each bi-weekly phase only takes an hour or less to complete and most of them are scavengers hunts that would be massively frustrating without online guides, and pointlessly uninteresting with them. No more needles in haystacks, if you’re going to hide something then you can’t just drop it in a random location somewhere on a map and ask players to wander the map until they trip over it, you need to give them clues so that they can figure out exactly where to find it.

The only truly interesting elements about the Living Story so far have been the invasion portals, the map changes to Wayfarers, and the little snippets of dialogue with the refugees, but it’s all spread a bit thin.

I think it would be fine to have an extended build-up to later events, once you’ve assured us in practice that there are bigger and better things that will happen, but in the case of the first “Living Story” I think it would have been better to hit hard and fast, a full story-mission/dungeon/massive event sort of adventure thing right out of the gate, so that people know that it won’t always be this sort of weak sauce.

And of course the Guild Missions don’t count because most people can’t do them at all and they totally fail on the promises of “anyone can participate” because anyone not in the starting guild only gets a worthless fraction of the reward.

Recently found this pic and had to share it it make me laugh XD

[img] http://images.mmorpg.com/features/7215/images/volunteer%20comic.jpg [/img]

BobbyStein.2315:

Brutal Arts.6307:

Yargesh.4965:

BobbyStein.2315:

Raine.1394:

The key to understanding the understanding issue is in their recent blog on the Living Story. What they have given us so far are ‘teasers’, not actual content. There is also a reference to developers rolling off other projects now available to expand upon the story. The monthly events had to happen as they are a key value proposition for Anet. So, absent the ability to provide actual content, they occurred as ‘teasers’. I would expect the content to be fleshed out more properly over time and this should make the story more understandable. TLDR: You haven’t been able to get it because there has been nothing to get.

Correct.

So a vague and convoluted answer is the correct way to think about a vague and convoluted piece of content?

Basically the devs were busy so they only had enough time to make 2 weeks of content and stretched it out into two months. Now that they’re done fixing minion AI and solving world hunger (pfffffft) we’ll return to our regularly scheduled hitting things til they die.

What we’ve released so far is teaser content. Our next release, Flame & Frost: The Razing, is where the story and characters ramp up.

You call it teaser. I call it extremely boring and badly written. Teasers are supposed to grab peoples attention. Not have them running around like headless chickens, because you failed to make a compelling intro.

Let me do it for you.
Step 1: Place some new random crap houses.
Step 2: Burn down one of them.
Step 3: Start rumors about monsters.
Step 4: Burn more of them down.
Step 5: Have people fleeing, while telling horror stories.

What you don’t do is show the enemy before the main event starts as that just completely kills the suspense

BobbyStein.2315:

azureai.9764:

Honestly, if this was a teaser, it should have been rolled out quietly. No announcement. Then the players would be going nuts trying to figure out what it all means before getting hit with the real content.

Agreed.

Bobby – first off let me say THANK YOU for being brave and talking to us in this thread. This is the sort of communication forum goers crave – even if it’s not what we want to hear.

I hadn’t realized it until Azureai said it – if these changes had been unannounced like the Lost Shores teasers, you can bet I’d have been in-game quite a bit running around trying to find out what’s going on. During Lost Shores I was translating signs, pouring buckets of water on whales and talking excitedly with LA chat about what might be going on. In Living Story, I know EXACTLY what’s supposed to be going on, but I don’t see any of it. I had no idea these first two months were supposed to be teasers. I thought they were content and I had no desire to do them. The way I was finding out about the story was checking my achievement window, googling how to do it, then going out and grinding it out. I haven’t logged in for over a week for the first time since launch.

It sounds like you agree with me – teasers should be unannounced, player-discovered changes to the world that leave us asking questions. There should be just enough information to keep us interested, and just enough NPC intrusion into our gameplay to ensure that we know something is going on, even if we don’t care to pursue it right that second. Finding that balance is an art form that is up to your team to master. If you can pull that off, it will put back some excitement back in the game for me. I really look forward to playing this game again.

Thanks again!

BobbyStein.2315:

Fiontar.4695:

Yes, that would have made sense, but they needed to fluff up the teasers to cover for the fact that there really wasn’t much actual content in the January/February patches. They needed to preserve the illusion that they were updating and adding content monthly.

Actually, we’ve been adding a lot of content each month of 2013 but most of it hasn’t been related to the Living Story. That’s because the Living World teams were ramping up design and development while other teams were completing their projects. Here’s what we’ve released in the past two months.

January update contents: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-January-28-2013/first#post1321870

• Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs
• Dailies/Monthlies
• Achievement tracking UI
• Fractal reconnect
• Guesting
• Orr polish
• PvP map
• Bug fixes
• Skill balance
• Etc.

February update contents: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-February-26-2013/first#post1639231

• Flame & Frost teaser events/NPCs (phase 2)
• Spirit Watch PvP map
• Item preview
• Guild Bounty, Guild Rush, Guild Trek, etc.
• Bug fixes
• Skill balance
• Etc.

In short, January and February were teaser months for the Living Story. March and April will have much more story content. As always, we appreciate your patience and look forward to hearing your thoughts once you’ve had a chance to play the new stuff.

You look forward to hearing WHAT !? There is a 2000 thread about guild missions being crap and you don’t even respond to that. Do you seriously believe anyone still takes you seriously? The few Reds that I’m believe in are on the Dungeons and Support teams + John Smith, love that guy.

Other than that thanks for at least talking to the community, you’re one of the few that actually do that. The January patch was my favorite patch up till now.

HiddenNick.7206:

Wayfinder.8452:

…

It’s rather discussion so about 1000 of those posts say that the guild missions aren’t so bad or even say that their great – including me (it got my guild finally working together and meet more often – it’s a really great experience and i’m looking forward to checkout other types of this content).

Largely untrue, the majority of the posts are about Bounties being lackluster or plain bad, please go read the topic again.

Living story has been nothing so far, still waiting for the March update but I’m not very positive about it.

Wayfinder.8452:

There is a 2000 thread about guild missions being crap and you don’t even respond to that.

It’s rather discussion so about 1000 of those posts say that the guild missions aren’t so bad or even say that their great – including me (it got my guild finally working together and meet more often – it’s a really great experience and i’m looking forward to checkout other types of this content).

It’s been over 2 weeks and the guild I’m in still hasn’t gotten the influence to do guild missions yet. So to me it feels like nothing happened for the february update.

Please keep on topic guys.

Fiontar.4695:

You guys have definitely added features, but very light on content. I exclude Guild Missions from content delivered to players, because the gating of access to them is so absurd that maybe 95% of players have no access unless they guild leech. Besides, bounties, though I’m sure taking some amount of resources to develop, don’t really offer much in the way of actual playable content.

(My post is not necessarily directed at you, I just high-jacked your post.)

I would argue that content, even if its not for you in particular, is still content. Fractals, for instance, wasn’t for me, but was still quite some load of content, and many (other) people enjoy it.

Also, I wouldn’t underestimate the workload required to deliver new features. Guesting or the removal of culling haven’t been released earlier since ANet didn’t want us to have it, they just needed a significant amount of time for development/testing. I find it understandable that this has required resources that could not act on different tasks. So, while the “story content” of the past two releases was rather shallow compared to the months before, I didn’t see ANet giving us “less than before” in the past two releases.

And, finally, I would like to highlight the fact that we got all of this for free, as a kind of continued service for our one-time purchase. This service is even more impressive than what we got for GW1. Don’t tell me you expected that, say, 12 months ago, since I would not believe you.

~MRA

Pirlipat.2479:

I do not mind so much that the story isn’t advancing fast but I personally mind that it’s not gaining depth either. Everything seems so shallow. You meet those NPCs who lost their belongings but even if you find their stuff you don’t get to know much more about them as they tell you.

Compared to Harry Potter this is like Harry was discribed rumaging endlessly in his aunts house and a month later they publish the next part.

Really? Do things in real life happen fast? No, and they certainly don’t happen when you want them too.

TexZero.7910:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Ok, the physical destination is Southsun. In terms of getting to the destination (that is, the end) of the story:

• How do the Dredge and Flame Legion factor into all of this?
• What’s up with the weather?
• Why the Norn and Charr? Why not the Sylvari?

Since we don’t have all of these, we can’t say that there is poor direction.

The other points though I have no particular feeling on. The refugees tell enough about who and what they lost on the way to LA for me. My mind fills in the blanks.

Again very relevant to poor story telling. Especially if you’re going to call this a “Living Story”.

The direction and even more so, the pacing of this 4 part event is way off.

We’ve had 2 parts directly dedicated to being nothing more than errand boys. Nothing to show why the dredge and flame legion are working together(etc)…One could be lead to many assumptions, but the very nature of telling a story is to not leave it to ones assumptions but to guide them through the chaos as if they were living it. A really good story makes you feel emotionally and physically attached to it….Im getting none of that.

The sad fact is they don’t do anything to engross you in the events. If you want to deny that then i do have to question what kind of literary works you enjoy.

Then if it is such poor story telling why don’t you get a job at Anet and write for the living story.. Stick your neck out there.

Kojiden.8405:

It’s been over 2 weeks and the guild I’m in still hasn’t gotten the influence to do guild missions yet. So to me it feels like nothing happened for the february update.

It requires some team work to unlock. You get most influence when playing together – so try that.

Eladriel.7295:

Pirlipat.2479:

I do not mind so much that the story isn’t advancing fast but I personally mind that it’s not gaining depth either. Everything seems so shallow. You meet those NPCs who lost their belongings but even if you find their stuff you don’t get to know much more about them as they tell you.

Compared to Harry Potter this is like Harry was discribed rumaging endlessly in his aunts house and a month later they publish the next part.

Really? Do things in real life happen fast? No, and they certainly don’t happen when you want them too.

Ofc you can compare everything to RL but then why play a game, why read a book, why watch a movie. Any kind of art or entertainment is focussing on something and if you want to get hold of your audience you will try to catch them with something interessting. Art is not RL.

Even a reportage will focus on something and if that story is focussing on the boring bits of what’s happening not even giving some depth to the characters and their stories I am sorry to say then it’s a boring story.

I’m not saying that the story is completely wrong as a tiny little sidecontent it’s ok but it is far from beeing the awesome story it got advertised.

Edit: Beside that if you like the story the way it is, that’s fine, but that does not change my opinion on it. And I’m stating my disappointment and decreasing interest in the story, nothing else.

Fiontar.4695:

You guys have definitely added features, but very light on content. I exclude Guild Missions from content delivered to players, because the gating of access to them is so absurd that maybe 95% of players have no access unless they guild leech. Besides, bounties, though I’m sure taking some amount of resources to develop, don’t really offer much in the way of actual playable content.

I disagree with that. First, where do you get the numbers from? 19 of 20 players have no access to the guild bounty? I strongly doubt that this is correct. If anything it is more likely 1 out of 20 who has NOT access to it. Which is as arbitrary as your number.

I am in a medium guild (size-wise, like 20 actives, 30 at peak times) and we had immediate access.

And content-wise: It is no new map, agreed, but a completely new experience to play. I like that there is now one (and only one) feature where masses of players (>5) have a common goal and have to communicate about it.

So it is new content, and for me the best content since the Halloween event

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Please keep on topic guys.

Yeah, sorry.

Nemui.6753:

BobbyStein.2315:

azureai.9764:

Honestly, if this was a teaser, it should have been rolled out quietly. No announcement. Then the players would be going nuts trying to figure out what it all means before getting hit with the real content.

Agreed.

i feel sorry for you guys. seems like it’s impossible to strike a good balance.. if you don’t announce anything, people will complain and if you do announce stuff, people will still complain.

I completely agree with you. Nothing is appreciated, everything is an opportunity to complain.

I had no trouble figuring out what I was supposed to do. I think perhaps people should realize that different people like different things.

My take on it is this: It is a Living story. Tyria has no newspapers, you find things out by word of mouth. When strange things start happening, people are confused, some know more than others, they have different opinions, there is no complete set of information, no one official voice in Tyria that knows everything and is willing to tell it. So we find out bits and pieces by talking to people and by using our imagination. We wonder what is happening. Why are the dredge and flame legion working together? What is their goal? And the consortium, surely they aren’t benevolently helping the refugees? What is their ultimate goal?

Those that enjoy a mystery and figuring things out have explored, talked to NPCs, observed changes, and enjoyed the content. Personally, I have enjoyed this. I have been able to do everything at a slower pace, without the rush rush rush that annoys me. I have been able to wonder about what is going on, speculate with friends on what we think will unfold, and have fun anticipating what will next happen. Heck, it has even inspired me to take my alts through Wayfarers map completion now so that they have all waypoints.