Guild Wars 2

A couple of people have asked if the 10 AP were moved to the login rewards, and a monetary award of 10 gold was added for completing dailies, if that would satisfy those of us who are unhappy with the new dailies. And, speaking for myself, I would say absolutely not. GW2 is a game for fun and entertainment. No bribe is enough to make me do things that I dislike.(in a game) And I imagine that there are many who agree with me. I’ve already come to grips with the fact that there are a lot of things in this game that are “not for me”. But that category is growing, and that concerns me.

Several people have asked if we simply got more of the new choices, if that would be sufficient. Once again, speaking for myself, I say it would be better than nothing. And probably the easiest to implement “solution”. But no, I would not be satisfied by that merely less dissatisfied. And I’m sure I’m not alone in this viewpoint.

This thread with its original title “I dislike the new dailies” went to 29 pages before the subject was changed. Please quit acting like it’s just one or two players who are dissatisfied with the new dailies.

And seriously, who is harmed by players having more choices, and more to enjoy? Why take things away from us? Why do we deserve that?

Filaha.1678:

You aren’t people. You are a person. You are irrelevant to what “people” like.

Yes, I’m a person who had no issues with the dailies and saw no reason to waste resources on a third iteration of the same bloody thing excluding me from getting what i was without pushing me into things i dislike.

That’s cool. There’s actually nothing stopping you from playing the way you want, but if you want to claim that there is…

I can no longer do the dailies the way they were designed to do due to a change nobody asked for, so yes again.

If players start dropping off all because they have to go a little bit out of their way to get AP (which, if you didn’t notice, you will have to do, period, if you want the major AP rewards) then the game has more problems than dailies. Clearly, they should completely ignore “fixing” dailies and work on other portions of the game.

The game has way bigger problems than dailies that worked just fine a month ago which is another reason i despise all of this, it wasn’t needed.

And if you’re already planning to leave… well, then they don’t really need to please you, do they? Clearly you’ll be difficult to actually please if the only thing keeping you here is the dailies. They should focus on the people who either are happy with the changes or don’t mind the changes, as they’ll clearly be easier to please and retain.

It isn’t, or wasn’t the only thing but it’s fast becoming another page in the book of changes nobody has asked for all the while they continue to ignore what everyone is asking for (trait fix, expansion). If they continue to ignore a majority of the player base the way they have been it will result in a loss for all players. Don’t kid yourself, when a game starts faltering and money starts disappearing it becomes less likely that it will be sustainable. So in the end they can choose to try and compromise and make everyone happy or blindly go about making changes ignoring feedback but in the end it’ll be bad for all you included.
My leaving is a culmination of a great many things and i won’t be the only one. They have continuously pushed their agenda with no concern or regard to their player base and this will not end well, so go ahead and push back but when its all said and done we’ll both have been forced out of a game we loved for all the wrong reasons.

And for all of you saying “If you don’t like it, just quit playing.” That is absolutely what we don’t want to happen. Losing players will be bad for everyone, because if we lose enough players the game will no longer be sustainable.
So what you’re saying when you tell players “If you don’t like it, just quit playing.”, is actually “I want this game to fail.”

Feedback

I’ve already said what I don’t like. What I do like
1) I do like the increased laurels and other rewards and the option to chose your reward at the end of 28 days.
2) I like the chest after doing one. That has actually encouraged me to start doing a daily PvP and do a PvP reward track. The chests have also increased the amount of WvW I do from close to zero to, on some days, do a few things.
3) whether or not the rewards or at login or after completion, I’m indifferent to that.
4) the types of dailies (events, harvest, visas), don’t mind. (It’s the super specificity and the consequences of that, that I don’t like).

Overall I like the new dailies. I like the idea of them directing players to specific areas of the game that I normally wouldn’t feel motivated to go back to. I want more of them at a time however. I like the idea of being directed to a particular jumping puzzle by a daily (otherwise I don’t feel motivated to do jumping puzzles as there rewards are pretty insignificant). I would also like dailies for a particular path of a particular dungeon. This would make them more akin to the Zaishen quests of GW1 which I liked alot. Why not have a daily for a particular dungeon, jumping puzzle, events in a particular zone, etc. every day?

Elden Arnaas.4870:

A couple of people have asked if the 10 AP were moved to the login rewards, and a monetary award of 10 gold was added for completing dailies, if that would satisfy those of us who are unhappy with the new dailies. And, speaking for myself, I would say absolutely not. GW2 is a game for fun and entertainment. No bribe is enough to make me do things that I dislike.(in a game) And I imagine that there are many who agree with me. I’ve already come to grips with the fact that there are a lot of things in this game that are “not for me”. But that category is growing, and that concerns me.

Several people have asked if we simply got more of the new choices, if that would be sufficient. Once again, speaking for myself, I say it would be better than nothing. And probably the easiest to implement “solution”. But no, I would not be satisfied by that merely less dissatisfied. And I’m sure I’m not alone in this viewpoint.

This thread with its original title “I dislike the new dailies” went to 29 pages before the subject was changed. Please quit acting like it’s just one or two players who are dissatisfied with the new dailies.

And seriously, who is harmed by players having more choices, and more to enjoy? Why take things away from us? Why do we deserve that?

Just so we have this straight, your problem is not that you are having trouble getting the rewards you easily has before, but rather, that a.net is adding incentive to go to other game modes?

First people twisted the play as you want comment from a reference to the accessibility of exotic gear to meaning they should have everything for whatever they want to do. Now you’re extending that to men that a.net shouldn’t try to draw more players into activities you personally don’t like?

Lol.

For those of you saying that the new dailies are more like those in GW1, no they aren’t. And more importantly they added Zaishen and White Mantel dailies. Those are additional content. And they didn’t take anything away to put them in. They are kinda grindy, but most of them are fun, and rewarding. Whereas the new GW2 dailies are simply more tedious. I don’t see what purpose that serves.

Lazuli.2098:

Subdue.5479:

…
What I would not agree with is bringing back the old generic dailies that would allow people to get the daily without going out of their way at all.

Then by that logic you should be all for removing pvp and wvw daily tasks.

..?

Filaha.1678:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

I don’t like fractals and you certainly don’t speak for me.

You aren’t people. You are a person. You are irrelevant to what “people” like.

Likewise, Filaha, you are a person, voicing their opinion just like Vlad… No need to be rude, or attempt to invalidate what he’s saying just because he doesn’t represent all the players – no one does, surely you don’t either.

Filaha.1678:

And if you’re already planning to leave… well, then they don’t really need to please you, do they? Clearly you’ll be difficult to actually please if the only thing keeping you here is the dailies. They should focus on the people who either are happy with the changes or don’t mind the changes, as they’ll clearly be easier to please and retain.

That’s interesting…
I’m no mathematician or a sales-person… but I think if they did do that, the number of players they retain will start to decrease slowly but steadily. With a decrease of players, there will be a decrease in gem sales.

I love the new changes to the daily system and monthly system. I only wish they wouldn’t completely do away with the currently monthly setup. I love the login rewards. I just don’t want to loseat the traditional monthlys.

Zero Day.2594:

Likewise, Filaha, you are a person, voicing their opinion just like Vlad… No need to be rude, or attempt to invalidate what he’s saying just because he doesn’t represent all the players – no one does, surely you don’t either.

Actually, if you go ahead and read what I said that he responded to, was me saying that people like fractals. I never said that everybody liked them, nor did I say that Vlad does or should like them. He responded, irrelevantly, with his statement that he doesn’t like them and I shouldn’t speak for him, but then, I never did speak for him, nor attempt to. I spoke for the people that do like fractals. He’s not one of them. He is irrelevant to the people that like fractals.

I’ll await your apology for telling the wrong person that they’re incorrectly trying to invalidate someone’s point based on their own personal opinion.

That’s interesting…
I’m no mathematician or a sales-person… but I think if they did do that, the number of players they retain will start to decrease slowly but steadily. With a decrease of players, there will be a decrease in gem sales.

If you ran a store and one person came in and complained about the merchandise and said they were never coming back again because the merchandise wasn’t what they wanted, would you try to make them happy so they come back by changing your merchandise, or would you look at the hundred regulars that are constantly coming into your store and buying your merchandise and instead try to keep them happy?

It’s only logic.

re: Just so we have this straight, your problem is not that you are having trouble getting the rewards you easily has before, but rather, that a.net is adding incentive to go to other game modes? – Sorry to be unclear. I know what I what, what I don’t want, what I like, and what I dislike. And I give other people credit for generally having the same self-awareness. So I think that this “incentive to go to other game modes” will be largely ineffective. What concerns me even more though, is that they took away options as part of this “incentive”. People resent when you take away their options. It’s bad PR, and I can’t think of any purpose it would serve in this context. I’m all for more options, but please don’t narrow our existing options and restrict our game play. GW2 is a game. So everything is optional. And if you give people less to enjoy, they’ll be dissatisfied. And they may go elsewhere for their entertainment. And it’s bad for a game to lose players. And yes, it is harder for me to get dailies when I have less options.

re: Now you’re extending that to mean that a.net shouldn’t try to draw more players into activities you personally don’t like? – No, I’m asserting that we need more options, not less. And that we especially don’t need options taken away. There need to be more options for things to do and enjoy in this game. How could anyone possibly disagree with that? Taking away people’s options is bad business.

Many people already know where their comfort zone lies (PvE, PvP, WvW). We don’t need ANet “encouraging” us to go outside of it. This is a game. We don’t play to feel uncomfortable. Give us challenges us in areas of the game we enjoy.

The biggest problem I have is with them giving us such specific tasks. That is just a recipe for massive zergfests. I utterly and completely despise zergs myself. I tried the Jormag event when it appeared on the Dailies, and was frozen for literally half the event. (Move for a couple seconds, freeze for 20. Repeat). Amazingly I never disconnected, but I have never been to an event with such incredible lag (with the possible exception of the first day the Karka arrived in the lands around LA). Never again. Nothing ANet can do will “encourage” me to play zerg content. (I blame Scarlet for bringing that WvW tactic down upon PvE).

Locce.8405:

I guess I do not have to tell you that it is usually not just one thing that makes people leave a game. Far more often it is a collection of things reducing the enjoyment of the game bit by bit. What I apparently do have to tell you is that this is exactly what is happening for those complaining about the new Dailies and how they were implemented. Their enjoyment is reduced, and it does not matter if that change affects everybody or you specifically, and it does not matter if it’s already enough to make them leave or if a few more negative bits are needed to that effect.

If you feel you’ve just added the proverbial straw, then a better solution to just picking the straw back up would be to fix the camel and maybe remove some of the additional items he was carrying.

Hamfast.8719:

(I blame Scarlet for bringing that WvW tactic down upon PvE).

Had you never been to Queensdale pre-April feature pack?

People still ask where the zerg is as they come back for the first time since then.

phaktorphive.7854:

So a question to everyone that likes the new dailies.. Is there no compromise? Cause you guys like it that makes it the only way, the best way? Get the kitten out of here. People are posting here to let Anet know of their complaints, its a completely valid argument here with the new dailies. There are changes that can be made to make both sides happy. There are a lot of good suggestions here in the midst of all the QQing.

And if you dont like it, it should be removed and the old system brought back? Cause you guys that dont like it removing it is the only way. Is that your point? (by the way, there are threads filled with positive suggestions, but they keep getting moved to page 2 because everyone is just posting complaints in here).

Anyway this is probably due to the fact that all the “changes” people who want the old dailies suggest are pretty much to bring the old dailies back. If your compromise is to change the new dailies things like “get 20 kills” and “dodge 15 times” and “do any 5 events anywhere”, then thats a valid opinion, but many of us dont see the point of counting that as an ACHIEVEMENT. Many people would agree that having more than 4 daily options available is a good thing, as long as they are still some kind of ACHIEVEMENT, not just being handed something for nothing (which you still get from the daily log in).

Along with this, 2 other pieces of feedback. One being that having daily fractal and daily scale 1-10 fractal on the same day is just silly, and hopefully an oversight. Second is that while having 2 fractal achieves at once is annoying, I love the new system during holidays. I didnt have 30+ minutes that it would have taken to do the dailies in the old system, but i was able to spend a minute just to log on, which was great because I wont lose the laurels I need badly for them alts.

Sizer.5632:

phaktorphive.7854:

So a question to everyone that likes the new dailies.. Is there no compromise? Cause you guys like it that makes it the only way, the best way? Get the kitten out of here. People are posting here to let Anet know of their complaints, its a completely valid argument here with the new dailies. There are changes that can be made to make both sides happy. There are a lot of good suggestions here in the midst of all the QQing.

And if you dont like it, it should be removed and the old system brought back? Cause you guys that dont like it removing it is the only way. Is that your point? (by the way, there are threads filled with positive suggestions, but they keep getting moved to page 2 because everyone is just posting complaints in here).

Anyway this is probably due to the fact that all the “changes” people who want the old dailies suggest are pretty much to bring the old dailies back. If your compromise is to change the new dailies things like “get 20 kills” and “dodge 15 times” and “do any 5 events anywhere”, then thats a valid opinion, but many of us dont see the point of counting that as an ACHIEVEMENT. Many people would agree that having more than 4 daily options available is a good thing, as long as they are still some kind of ACHIEVEMENT, not just being handed something for nothing (which you still get from the daily log in).

Along with this, 2 other pieces of feedback. One being that having daily fractal and daily scale 1-10 fractal on the same day is just silly, and hopefully an oversight. Second is that while having 2 fractal achieves at once is annoying, I love the new system during holidays. I didnt have 30+ minutes that it would have taken to do the dailies in the old system, but i was able to spend a minute just to log on, which was great because I wont lose the laurels I need badly for them alts.

Did i say anywhere that i want it back the way it was… thats why i said compromise….. we can keep the daily system the way it is now and still have more choice.. or is that too hard for you to realize..

Hamfast.8719:

Many people already know where their comfort zone lies (PvE, PvP, WvW). We don’t need ANet “encouraging” us to go outside of it. This is a game. We don’t play to feel uncomfortable. Give us challenges us in areas of the game we enjoy.

The biggest problem I have is with them giving us such specific tasks. That is just a recipe for massive zergfests. I utterly and completely despise zergs myself. I tried the Jormag event when it appeared on the Dailies, and was frozen for literally half the event. (Move for a couple seconds, freeze for 20. Repeat). Amazingly I never disconnected, but I have never been to an event with such incredible lag (with the possible exception of the first day the Karka arrived in the lands around LA). Never again. Nothing ANet can do will “encourage” me to play zerg content. (I blame Scarlet for bringing that WvW tactic down upon PvE).

So basically, you want them to challenge you so long as the challenge doesn’t involve wvw, PvP, large groups, difficult dungeons, … You just want to be rewarded for slaying ambients and salvaging gear. Just say that.

Filaha.1678:

If you ran a store and one person came in and complained about the merchandise and said they were never coming back again because the merchandise wasn’t what they wanted, would you try to make them happy so they come back by changing your merchandise, or would you look at the hundred regulars that are constantly coming into your store and buying your merchandise and instead try to keep them happy?

It’s only logic.

The next day another customer comes in with the same complaint. The day after that another two. Then another customer on day three… How many customers do you lose before you start to even consider if their complaint is valid? At which point do you even recognise that of the customers who have not yet complained about the new merchandise none have exactly complained about the old one either? If you ran a store and would really try to maximise your profits wouldn’t you at least check if keeping the complaining customer happy would actually cost you anything?

It’s only logic.

That’s a good point. Why are they making zergs in starter areas again? Having daily events in a specific map does make it quicker and easier to get credit for events. But only if you’re a higher level player. It’s devastating if you’re a lower level player. Monsters are just instantly vaporized, and lower level players have difficulty getting credit. Anet should definitely not be pulling zergs of higher level players into starter areas. The Queensdale Champ zerg only affected 5 events. Daily events affects all events on a map. Why is Anet making starter areas zergy again, after all the work they did to remove zergs from starter areas? I don’t see what could possibly justify that. And why do they want certain maps to be way overcrowded, anyway? What purpose does that serve?

Locce.8405:

Filaha.1678:

If you ran a store and one person came in and complained about the merchandise and said they were never coming back again because the merchandise wasn’t what they wanted, would you try to make them happy so they come back by changing your merchandise, or would you look at the hundred regulars that are constantly coming into your store and buying your merchandise and instead try to keep them happy?

It’s only logic.

The next day another customer comes in with the same complaint. The day after that another two. Then another customer on day three… How many customers do you lose before you start to even consider if their complaint is valid? At which point do you even recognise that of the customers who have not yet complained about the new merchandise none have exactly complained about the old one either? If you ran a store and would really try to maximise your profits wouldn’t you at least check if keeping the complaining customer happy would actually cost you anything?

It’s only logic.

Well, as long as the customers that keep coming back considerably outnumber the minority complaining about the merchandise, I wouldn’t really care to look into changing my merchandise just in case the people who have proven themselves to keep coming back don’t like the new merchandise.

Filaha.1678:

Locce.8405:

I guess I do not have to tell you that it is usually not just one thing that makes people leave a game. Far more often it is a collection of things reducing the enjoyment of the game bit by bit. What I apparently do have to tell you is that this is exactly what is happening for those complaining about the new Dailies and how they were implemented. Their enjoyment is reduced, and it does not matter if that change affects everybody or you specifically, and it does not matter if it’s already enough to make them leave or if a few more negative bits are needed to that effect.

If you feel you’ve just added the proverbial straw, then a better solution to just picking the straw back up would be to fix the camel and maybe remove some of the additional items he was carrying.

I am not exactly a member of the Anet development team, am I? So what am I supposed to do other than give feedback to those who have the power to take items of the camels back or to fix the camel altogether. It’s either that or leave the camel to die, and since GW2 used to be a lot of fun for me I would feel rather bad about that without even trying to do my part.

Well, as long as the customers that keep coming back considerably outnumber the minority complaining about the merchandise, I wouldn’t really care to look into changing my merchandise just in case the people who have proven themselves to keep coming back don’t like the new merchandise.

In that case you are the kind of shopkeeper that quickly gets put out of business as soon as a new shop opens nearby, never even caring about his dwindling customer numbers unless it’s more than 50% of the current customer base that has a complaint about the same thing.

Locce.8405:

Filaha.1678:

If you ran a store and one person came in and complained about the merchandise and said they were never coming back again because the merchandise wasn’t what they wanted, would you try to make them happy so they come back by changing your merchandise, or would you look at the hundred regulars that are constantly coming into your store and buying your merchandise and instead try to keep them happy?

It’s only logic.

The next day another customer comes in with the same complaint. The day after that another two. Then another customer on day three… How many customers do you lose before you start to even consider if their complaint is valid? At which point do you even recognise that of the customers who have not yet complained about the new merchandise none have exactly complained about the old one either? If you ran a store and would really try to maximise your profits wouldn’t you at least check if keeping the complaining customer happy would actually cost you anything?

It’s only logic.

I think you should take into account that people who don’t like something tend to be louder than people who like it. The forum represents a tiny fraction of the player base, and people who are fine with the changes are just playing. They are less likely to come here and voice their appreciation then people who are disgruntled are likely to come to complain.

Locce.8405:

Filaha.1678:

Locce.8405:

I guess I do not have to tell you that it is usually not just one thing that makes people leave a game. Far more often it is a collection of things reducing the enjoyment of the game bit by bit. What I apparently do have to tell you is that this is exactly what is happening for those complaining about the new Dailies and how they were implemented. Their enjoyment is reduced, and it does not matter if that change affects everybody or you specifically, and it does not matter if it’s already enough to make them leave or if a few more negative bits are needed to that effect.

If you feel you’ve just added the proverbial straw, then a better solution to just picking the straw back up would be to fix the camel and maybe remove some of the additional items he was carrying.

I am not exactly a member of the Anet development team, am I? So what am I supposed to do other than give feedback to those who have the power to take items of the camels back or to fix the camel altogether. It’s either that or leave the camel to die, and since GW2 used to be a lot of fun for me I would feel rather bad about that without even trying to do my part.

Didn’t say you couldn’t give feedback. Ever. That has never been a thing I’ve said.

What I have said is that with all these people making threats that they’re leaving for good because of dailies, then Anet should actually not worry too hard about the dailies themselves, because if “so many” people are just going to quit because dailies were the straw, they’ve been working that poor camel too hard already, and it’s time to lighten the camel’s load.

They gave me a reason and an incentive to try other classes in unranked arena. I did and I enjoyed it. They are faster than the old dailies so if I’m in a hurry and feel like I want the 10 AP it takes less time. The small rewards are actually a nice bonus! I often do the WvW dailies to get some more Badges (I usually don’t do WvW). After a while I even got ascended meta equipment for my Ele so I can enjoy occassional roaming. So the dailies so far worked out pretty well for me. They made me discover new things to do and they’re generally quicker than the old ones. Thumbs up from MY PERSONAL POINT OF VIEW!

Not to put words in anybodies mouths but i just don’t understand all this arguing. it really seems like a lot of you are against more options in each daily section which to me seems like a good thing. How at all would adding more options to the daily selections make the new daily format worse for you… i can only see it helping the situation for both crowds.

Here is some straight up feedback, no bs.

The Good:
1. The new dailies are great, rewards for each one completed, don’t have to do 10 different ones to get 10 AP.
2. Login rewards are great. You get 35 laurels (55 if you pick it in last chest). You get 10 free levels for any character per month (6 more in the last chest, so you can get 16 total).

The Bad: (While the login rewards are decent, they lack 2 things)
1. Luck. You only get 2000 in a month. That is absolute crap, I get almost 10 times that amount salvaging stuff throughout the day. Please increase it to a more reasonable amount.
2. Mystic coins, you only get 20 in a month, and since monthlies are getting pulled. You will be losing out on 30 mystic coins (1 for each day, and 20 for completing the monthly, so you would have gotten 50, now its only 20). The amount of these need to be increased as well. Maybe try this instead. Day 1 – 2 Mystic Coins, Day 8 – 4 Mystic Coins, Day 15 – 8 Mystic Coins, Day 22 – 16 Mystic Coins. Then add on 20 Mystic coins for the 28th day as an automatic reward just like the 2% increase to gold find. This way we will still get our 50 mystic coins we used to.

Yeah, today’s dailies were pretty horrible.

Double fractals, which I find neither fun nor rewarding, so I didn’t do them.

Events in Brisbane. We did this one. It was mostly wasting a lot of time hoping we reached the next event before people wiped it out seconds after it started.

We did mining in Brisbane too. For ore we will probably never use as we have more than enough already. Such a good use of my time and resources.

We had to go into WVW for the last part. Beelined for a sentry and killed him. Someone attacked us and we killed them too. I felt pretty bad about that. Once we were done we immediately fled the zone as we hate PVP in all forms.

This adds so much value to the game, I’m sure.

And for what? The chests I get from doing those are worthless to me. I never get anything useful from them. I just want the AP I used to be able to get while doing the old dailies. Just the five or six day to day.

And all the time out there is time I’m not doing the other content they want us to do, the Grindwastes. I’ve been there once since the new dailies started because I’m so disgusted by the time I’m done with them I can’t be bothered to do much more than log out.

Subdue.5479:

I think you should take into account that people who don’t like something tend to be louder than people who like it. The forum represents a tiny fraction of the player base, and people who are fine with the changes are just playing. They are less likely to come here and voice their appreciation then people who are disgruntled are likely to come to complain.

So how much is the bias in your opinion? Are the forumites a representative cross section of the player base? Is it really possible to calculate, for example, if we have 10 complainers in a thread and 3 anti-complainers, the playerbase should be split 2:1 against the complaint? And why should I care if I can only speak for myself one way or the other? A good idea is still a good idea, even if only a single person had it.
You are dodging the real argument by referring to the absence of player numbers, which is: what do you lose if those who complain are heard and appropriate changes are implemented? Would it really diminish your playing experience? And if so, how? How is having more choice making your day worse?

Ohoni.6057:

I was thinking, maybe this would be a good time for some civil disobedience. If they want to make us play PvP, then let’s play PvP. Let’s join whatever matches are required to clear the daily, and then just /sit until the round is over. Win or loose, repeat as necessary until the daily gets cleared somehow, or you get too bored to continue. We don’t want to PvP, we don’t want to WvW, but if they force us to do it anyways, then the least we can do is not provide a fun experience for any of the other players until they give up on the idea of controlling how we play.

Just make certain you tank to the Nth degree.

I think a large part of the problem with the new dailies is how it feels, as a player.Dev’s, it feels a lot more like a control mechanism than an incentive or reward. Which, and maybe it’s just me but, player in a video game should never feel like they are being controlled or manipulated. Do better dev’s, do better.

Locce.8405:

Subdue.5479:

I think you should take into account that people who don’t like something tend to be louder than people who like it. The forum represents a tiny fraction of the player base, and people who are fine with the changes are just playing. They are less likely to come here and voice their appreciation then people who are disgruntled are likely to come to complain.

So how much is the bias in your opinion? Are the forumites a representative cross section of the player base? Is it really possible to calculate, for example, if we have 10 complainers in a thread and 3 anti-complainers, the playerbase should be split 2:1 against the complaint? And why should I care if I can only speak for myself one way or the other? A good idea is still a good idea, even if only a single person had it.
You are dodging the real argument by referring to the absence of player numbers, which is: what do you lose if those who complain are heard and appropriate changes are implemented? Would it really diminish your playing experience? And if so, how? How is having more choice making your day worse?

A.net is likely trying to encourage people to play other content, like wvw, PvP, and even poorly populated zones. This is healthy for the game, as even in this very negative these we are having people say they discovered something about the game that they didn’t know they would like. If, however, the old easy choices remained, people will just default to what is easiest, and the whole point of the revamp will have been lost.

As someone who prefers pve (specifically dungeons and fractals) the additional choices would not hurt me, but that doesn’t mean I came see why a.net structured the dailies as they did, and I support their reasoning and goal as I believe it’s important that people be exposed to those things.

Filaha.1678:

Locce.8405:

Filaha.1678:

Locce.8405:

I guess I do not have to tell you that it is usually not just one thing that makes people leave a game. Far more often it is a collection of things reducing the enjoyment of the game bit by bit. What I apparently do have to tell you is that this is exactly what is happening for those complaining about the new Dailies and how they were implemented. Their enjoyment is reduced, and it does not matter if that change affects everybody or you specifically, and it does not matter if it’s already enough to make them leave or if a few more negative bits are needed to that effect.

If you feel you’ve just added the proverbial straw, then a better solution to just picking the straw back up would be to fix the camel and maybe remove some of the additional items he was carrying.

I am not exactly a member of the Anet development team, am I? So what am I supposed to do other than give feedback to those who have the power to take items of the camels back or to fix the camel altogether. It’s either that or leave the camel to die, and since GW2 used to be a lot of fun for me I would feel rather bad about that without even trying to do my part.

Didn’t say you couldn’t give feedback. Ever. That has never been a thing I’ve said.

What I have said is that with all these people making threats that they’re leaving for good because of dailies, then Anet should actually not worry too hard about the dailies themselves, because if “so many” people are just going to quit because dailies were the straw, they’ve been working that poor camel too hard already, and it’s time to lighten the camel’s load.

And at what point is a complaint valid in your opinion? You are straining the old straw man already – pardon the pun – by implying that people are already threatening to leave over this issue when people are mostly saying that this problem is just one that might add up with other things to make them leave eventually, or, to stay in your metaphor, the camel is just getting loaded and people are telling Anet to stop before the poor animal’s back is broken by some final straw that is bound to come sooner or later if they do continue. What item should one complain about if not about something that apparently brings long-term profit for nobody but adds to the camel’s load nonetheless?
You say that you are not against people voicing their opinion, but on the other way you obviously are against people complaining about this issue. What makes the new Daily so valuable to you that you would rather have it stay this way than have a few more and/or more non-specific options?

Elden Arnaas.4870:

For those of you saying that the new dailies are more like those in GW1, no they aren’t. And more importantly they added Zaishen and White Mantel dailies. Those are additional content. And they didn’t take anything away to put them in. They are kinda grindy, but most of them are fun, and rewarding. Whereas the new GW2 dailies are simply more tedious. I don’t see what purpose that serves.

And they (dailies) provide no reward that you can’t get pretty much anywhere else in the game doing something else.

If content X provides reward Y, and you do not like content X, but content Z, which you do enjoy, also provides reward Y……why not play the content you enjoy ?

My boyfriend and I are similar to Kaz and his fiance. We like to play together as a team. He is a big gamer and he got me playing this game with him. I really dislike jumping puzzles (I have some issues with my hands, so my coordination on these things is not always ideal) and we tried to do a fractal the other night to make our daily and it did not go well at all, because we did not have a group. Sometimes I feel people are more than happy to help, but other times I feel people throw insults if you are not perfection. So, often, we won’t ask for help and that makes it extremely difficult to make these new dailies. You need a group. We know some people who play, but we don’t want to impose and they are not always on at the same time that we are. Also, at times, he and I just want to enjoy the game together. Having fun following and helping a zerg, gathering, or whatever we feel like. Ultimately, we paid for the game, because we enjoyed it. But, we are not enjoying the fact that we cannot always make our dailies. But that being said, today the dailies are perfectly fine for us, so it just depends on what you want to do and what you are not comfortable doing.

Put me down as liking the new PvE/WvW dailies (I don’t PvP so no comment there). I have always wanted dailies to be specific optional tasks. The previous system was boring and I often had to go out of my way to complete it anyway.

i like the new system, i think just need more generic option (like reviver, or older generic gathering)

Tumult.2578:

Do you suppose it’s possible that she has no problems finding a group?
Is it possible she just doesn’t want to do that content because it isn’t fun for her?
She said the dailies are just an example of why she isn’t playing, not the only reason.
For her one post of “I quit”, how many are now gone that didn’t post?

Her presence made the game better, just like your presence does. Saying good riddance is like letting the door hit you in the butt. Please try to not let your dramatics overshadow the good point you made about this issue being looked at.
Her response to this is just one of many. I don’t quit.
I simply close the gem shop till it’s changed to a ‘fun to play system’ again.

I do not think many players have quit over the daily change. My post was infracted (no idea why, I have seen worse said to people on these forums than “good riddance”). But yes, I do find it dramatic to quit a game over a recently implemented change. A change that is being discussed and looked at by Anet for improvement. By telling us in this thread that she quit, it is to be implied that it was because of the topic being discussed, otherwise Anet should not take her proclaim of quitting into account while they discuss the new daily system’s affect on players. To me, it’s as empty a threat as telling a store manager you will never shop there again, just to get them to give you what you want. I stand firm in being happy to receive three of a time gated item in one go.

Subdue.5479:

A.net is likely trying to encourage people to play other content, like wvw, PvP, and even poorly populated zones. This is healthy for the game, as even in this very negative these we are having people say they discovered something about the game that they didn’t know they would like. If, however, the old easy choices remained, people will just default to what is easiest, and the whole point of the revamp will have been lost.

As someone who prefers pve (specifically dungeons and fractals) the additional choices would not hurt me, but that doesn’t mean I came see why a.net structured the dailies as they did, and I support their reasoning and goal as I believe it’s important that people be exposed to those things.

I agree with you that this was probably their goal, but let’s just take a step back and look if they are able to accomplish this goal with the current approach, which begs the following questions:

1. How does “Daily xxx Vista” steer people to less populated areas or achieve anything else worthwhile when they are most likely to just visit a vista in that region’s capital unless they were planning to do something in that region already? The same goes for “Daily xxx Miner” and similar objectives, only that you just go gather ressources in the appropriate home instance and maybe step out into the nearest zone for a couple of minutes.

2. Since the implementation of megaservers, were there ever so few people at the Great Jungle Wurm that you thought “Oh, if only there were more players here”? On the other side, how many of the really less frequented world events – Dredge Commissar and Foulbear Kraal spring to mind – have appeared in Dailies so far? Does the evidence point toward people indeed getting steered toward underused content or does it look like it is specific just for the sake of being specific?

3. How often do you have to be pushed into content you do not play normally until you know if you like that content or not? One try? Two tries? A hundred? The Dailies are going to repeat themselves. There will be more days after today when people will find themselves between a rock and a hard place by being forced to choose between fractals and PvP or WvW. Is there really no option to give this well-meaning hint to new players without annoying old players who already know what they want to do with their day?

Probably someone post these arguments but still i am scrub and tl;dr.

As player who have XX number of characters doing these Dailes are not problem for me and i like rewards from them, they allows me to level even more characters because why not, but still some of PvE dailes (i am not talking about PvP and WvW because i am scrub and i don’t like them he he) are bit long to do.
I think Anet should redesign at least some of PvE dailes because they are taking to long and i am talking about dailes like Fractals or “Do events here and here”. Of course argument for defending this dailes are “But they keep zones wich are dead with content etc” yea i understand that.

Lets think now like Jimmy. Jimmy is new player who finaly, from days of hard work got 20 level on his first and only character. Jimmy sees something like Daily. In daily he see “Do events here and here” “Mine here and here” “Win as this class” “Secure keep” etc. Ofcaurse Jimmy want do these things, but Jimmy can’t… Why you ask?

1. He didn’t unlock WvW or PvP (i don’t know level of unlocking these)

2. If he have level for PvP he don’t have LvL for WvW, why? BECAUSE WVW PEOPLE DON’T LIKE LOW LEVELS ON THEIR ZONE. (sorry for that rage)

3. He can’t do SOME of PvE Dailes because some of them are in zones that he cannot access or at least do something there (ex. Frostgore or like today 26.12.14 Two Fractal dailes)

And yea, Arena Net did these changes for new players…. yea…
Soo my point here is that: These dailes should be redesign, for exemple from “Do events in these area” to “Do events in Ascalon” “Do events in Maguma” etc. change RNG of dailes to not have 2 fractals dailes in one day and allow new players to do some dailes in PvP or WvW despite that they didn’t unlock them.

re: why not play the content you enjoy ? – If I haven’t made it clear by now that I only play content that I enjoy, or that I find rewarding, then I don’t know what more I can do to get that point across. GW2 is a game and everything is optional. Why take away choices, or make existing ones less appealing? It’s great that PvP and WvW get more choices than they had. But why take away from PvE options? Why not give each game mode the choice to do 5 out of 8 options? Why is it so crucial to cut down on the number of choices players have? And to overcrowd some maps, while leaving other maps underpopulated? I don’t understand this direction. It seems like bad practices, that will only hurt the GW2 player base overall.

Suggestion 1: increase the number of achievements needed to four, but add a new category called “Universal” which are things that can be done in any game mode. Daily dodger, daily reviver, kills (player kills = 5 monster kills), condition cleanser etc.

Rationale: you can once more make significant progress on dailies by just playing the game.

Suggestion 2: Make map quests either personal or by guild. The way I would implement it is by having a quest giver, possibly in the home instance. Speaking to the quest giver means that the player is allocated a map on which the player has at least one waypoint, or a random map that has been allocated to the guild which that player is currently representing.

Rationale: No Cursed Shore for level 45 players. An excuse for communal guild play. Having everyone on one map strips it of events. If the quest giver is in the Home Instance, then it could be a chance to reconnect with a character from the start of the Personal Story.

And yes, I realise that there are already threads out there on dailies, but I’d like to get opinions on these two ideas specifically. EDIT: I guess it got shifted anyway. As a non-sequitur in a now massive thread I doubt it will get any comment. Oh well.

The old Daily Achievements were mostly same ol’ – same ol’. They weren’t much of a challenge in themselves. But what they did do for me was give me ideas what to do and where to go when I logged in for the evening. The options were broad enough to let me select my own zones and activities for the most part. And eventually an extra reward would pop up on my screen while I was doing what I wanted to do. Yay!

Now I get most of those old Daily Achievement rewards from logging in. I have no “suggestions” to help me map out my evening. Instead, I have directions. The new Daily Achievements are far more specific. I can no longer plan my evening quite so much as much as be told what to do. And nobody likes being bossed around. And since I get most of my old Daily Achievement rewards from just logging in now, I already find myself logging right back out again. (The reward for the new Dailies are not encouragement to me. Achievement Chests have been worse than Boss chests for a long time now. I can live just fine without AP’s).

ANet needs to act fast. I’m sure there are already lots of players who feel “entitled” to free rewards for just logging in. They need to be incorporated back into the Daily Reward, and the Daily Achievements need to be less specific again with more choice of action. In other words, put ‘em back the way they were. They weren’t broken. They kept me playing the game in a time when we see very little interesting new stuff to do.

If they want to “encourage” players to try other aspects of the game, they need to offer unique rewards to lure them there. Taking away people’s choices is never a good thing. You attract more flies with honey than with another aspect of the NPE…

Locce.8405:

You are straining the old straw man already – pardon the pun – by implying that people are already threatening to leave over this issue

Except some people are. The post I was replying to by Vlad in this very thread on this very day was filled with threats of leaving and people leaving.

You may want to re-evaluate what you think a strawman is, or, to be honest, you may want to read this entire thread. People are saying they’re going to quit or they’ll stop playing or they’ve lost any desire to play at all.

You say that you are not against people voicing their opinion, but on the other way you obviously are against people complaining about this issue. What makes the new Daily so valuable to you that you would rather have it stay this way than have a few more and/or more non-specific options?

I’m not against people complaining about this issue. I’m against the way people complain, and some specific things they complain about.

Threats to quit are not constructive. Raging about non-issues are not constructive. Simply getting mad at Arenanet and insulting them is not constructive. Throwing a tantrum is not constructive.

Coming up with solutions is constructive. Working with Arenanet, rather than demanding they immediately fix things, is constructive.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: why not play the content you enjoy ? – If I haven’t made it clear by now that I only play content that I enjoy, or that I find rewarding, then I don’t know what more I can do to get that point across. GW2 is a game and everything is optional. Why take away choices, or make existing ones less appealing? It’s great that PvP and WvW get more choices than they had. But why take away from PvE options? Why not give each game mode the choice to do 5 out of 8 options? Why is it so crucial to cut down on the number of choices players have? And to overcrowd some maps, while leaving other maps underpopulated? I don’t understand this direction. It seems like bad practices, that will only hurt the GW2 player base overall.

Aside from the reward (get ap from daily) what are you no longer able to do because of the change to dailies?

@hamfast:

… Seriously?

How in the world did the old dailies “give you an idea of what to do?” Get a post it and write on it, “kill 50 ambients, talk to laurel vendor, dodge 15 times, apply 15 conditions, remove 15 conditions.”. Stick it to your monitor.

Bam, your now have as much direction as the old dailies have.

Where has the daily puzzle jumper gone, by the way? Was it deemed too complex, because JPs aren’t marked on the map? Was it replaced “NPE-style” by daily [regional] vista for that reason? Or have we just not seen it yet under the new system?

Newsflash: if it’s gone, and with monthlies also gone, jumping puzzles will see a lot less action in the future. A great big lot. What a waste.

@locce:

1. Two from each mode are easy, two are hard. This means you can do two easy in pve and then one easy in wvw, or some other combination. It’s giving you s choice while still encouraging you to branch out.

2. I agree, they should expand the world boss dailies to include the lesser engaged bosses.

3. It depends. I’ll give you an example though that’s applicable to me. About a month into playing gw2 I made a mesmer. I hated it. I got the character to level 20 or so and stopped. It’s still a mule on my account to this day. About six months later I forced myself to make a new mesmer because I had grown a liking for jumping puzzles. I gritted my teeth and leveled the new mesmer to 80, and in the course of doing so, fell in love with the character. That character is now my most played character by hundreds of hours.

In circuses they tie baby elephants to a spike to keep them from running away. They’re not during enough to pill the spike out no matter how hard they try, and soon they give up. When they’re grown, they can easily yank the spike from the ground, but they don’t try because they remember that they couldn’t before.

re: Aside from the reward (get ap from daily) what are you no longer able to do because of the change to dailies? – Get the AP. And I’ve only missed the 12/26 daily because of Fractals. But the AP really don’t concern me as much as this trend of Anet limiting player options and restricting our choices. The less options I have the less happy I am with the game. If you look at my post history, you’ll see that I’ve always been for players having more choices, and against players having less choices. And especially against having choices taken away. People resent having things taken away from them. And once again let me say that I don’t think that Anet forcing people to do things that they don’t want to do will accomplish anything constructive. Why do they have to be so restrictive and limiting? Why can’t we at least have more of the new choices? Or have the choices be less restrictive? Why a specific World Boss instead of just any World Boss. Why pull so many people into one specific map(overcrowding it) instead of a general region? It seems like the latest in a trend of ill-conceived decisions by Anet, and I’m concerned that they’re making more and more of the player base dissatisfied.

I don’t mind the new mechanism…it’s the specificity that is annoying me.

If we can mine/gather/cut lumber in a region (multiple zones), then why not allow for events across the region, etc. Specific bosses is annoying. I can’t time my play for that. There should be ways to keep the general system and get rid of the specificity.

Right now, if I had to pick my biggest issue with the new system, I wouldn’t say it’s a lack of choice, or being “forced” to do stuff.

The worst thing is the constant in-your-face “encouragement” to do things I have no inherent interest in doing. I can’t start a playing session without the huge pop-up, and it comes with the perpetual carrot of 10 AP for doing these ridiculous things. It makes me resent the game. If a person treated me like that in real life, day in day out, without missing a beat, I’d have punched him in the face by now.

Games shouldn’t foster resentment with their players.