Mate, no one runs dungeons for cosmetic rewards. People want shinies with stats, not just shinies.
Mate, did you ever play GW1? You could get the best stat gear very cheaply when you were halfway through the game story-wise. Yet people went out of their way to farm the most expensive prestige armors which only had different looks, no better stats. Obsidian armor? Vabbian armor? Chaos gloves? Volatic spears? They gave no advantage, yet many people tried very hard to get those
People would grind for the looks, even farming so much so they could have Obsidian on all their characters.
(To give you an idea how expensive it is, I was playing for 7 years and still couldn’t afford it myself ^^ )
Here is yet another symptom of the mechanics introduced with this patch. Don’t blame the players for asking for this, this is just another example of how things like resistance armor and scaling difficulty work to divide players.
3 days ago the guy asking for a tool to segregate you from his epic-ness was likely getting a combat rez in the open world from you, today you’re not good enough to be in his group.
That’s how much the game has change in just a few short days.
Ever ask a person what armor they had equipt before giving them a hand up in a open world fight ….no me either.
This is how negative and positive game mechanics impact community.
Shame, I think you can tell what side of the slop we’re on.
Here is yet another symptom of the mechanics introduced with this patch. Don’t blame the players for asking for this, this is just another example of how things like resistance armor and scaling difficulty work to divide players.
3 days ago the guy asking for a tool to segregate you from his epic-ness was likely getting a combat rez in the open world from you, today you’re not good enough to be in his group.
That’s how much the game has change in just a few short days.
Ever ask a person what armor they had equipt before giving them a hand up in a open world fight ….no me either.
This is how negative and positive game mechanics impact community.
Shame, I think you can tell what side of the slop we’re on.
real bro? cant you feel the Irony on each of his words?
Anet, I’m willing to buy gems. Yes willing to spend money but I refuse to if you don’t remove Ascended gear. You know because of this its impossible to find a group for CoE Thank you very much!!!
If you’re having fun with the game, whatever that might be, doing dailies, running dungeons, collecting mats for crafting, experimenting with recipes, doing the open world events, or participating in WvW or PvP then it’s not a grind to obtain new gear.
The original designers of the game understood this. It only becomes a grind when you are forced into a single type of gameplay that you don’t particular like to begin with or becomes boring because you have to repeat the same action and content over and over again.
If everything you do in the game (crafting, adventuring, dungeons, dynamic events) ticks you a bit closer to acquiring the top end gear in the game then you’re earning the gear as a side effect of you having fun playing the game YOUR WAY. This was the promise GW2 had over other MMO’s
The following post by OP also has a great point:
Here is yet another symptom of the mechanics introduced with this patch. Don’t blame the players for asking for this, this is just another example of how things like resistance armor and scaling difficulty work to divide players.
3 days ago the guy asking for a tool to segregate you from his epic-ness was likely getting a combat rez in the open world from you, today you’re not good enough to be in his group.
That’s how much the game has change in just a few short days.
Ever ask a person what armor they had equipt before giving them a hand up in a open world fight ….no me either.
This is how negative and positive game mechanics impact community.
Shame, I think you can tell what side of the slop we’re on.
The OP has nailed it… The game is all about Fractals and ANet’s new exclusion and elitism policy now – other areas are deserted as if places like Cursed Shore weren’t deserted enough already outside the karma zerg routes.
Of course they are. Just wait until one of the CCs comes and copy pastes “Thanks for your feedback”, right before either locking this thread or merging it into the neutrally named feedback thread.
I agree with OP, as well. It’s like one company developed the game, and an entirely different one works on it post-launch.
If you got this far and are curious about the title of this post that’s how the bait and shift works when you advertise one thing and deliver something unexpected.
While i enjoyed your post and i find it to be very thoughtful and entertaining i can’t let this one go:
It is called “Bait and Switch”. You switch the product after you bait the customer.
“The DR System is not restricting players, it just here to help them realize how they want to play!”
It is really, really sad that this is the new direction of the game. It’s actually quite disappointing that a ‘new direction’ was even thought of, let alone, implemented.
The worst part is the silence from Anet. This silence speaks volumes. This silence is deafening. Agree with the ‘new direction’ or not it is the only direction, and they will not change their minds on it because they no longer care. It is now all about copying #1 to try and get a slice of that pie.
It is really, really sad that this is the new direction of the game. It’s actually quite disappointing that a ‘new direction’ was even thought of, let alone, implemented.
The worst part is the silence from Anet. This silence speaks volumes. This silence is deafening. Agree with the ‘new direction’ or not it is the only direction, and they will not change their minds on it because they no longer care. It is now all about copying #1 to try and get a slice of that pie.
It really is a shame…
Agree, the silence in all of this is the most disconcerting thing.
I find it very odd that we haven’t heard anything from the original team regarding this patch and explaining how this all fits with the original development ideologies.
Thanks for your opinion Khristophoros.7194, I hope for this games sake I am overstating the problems ( but I don’t think I am) but none the less they are problems that didn’t exist before this patch and we already have multiple confirmations on the forums that all these issues have already been encounter.
CURRENTLY, the only way to acquire ascended rings is through Fractals of the Mist.
CURRENTLY, the only way to acquire ascended back items is through the Mystic Forge.
CURRENTLY, there is no way to acquire ascended items for any other equipment slot.
ArenaNet designers have stated that it will eventually be possible to acquire a full set of ascended items, and that the methods to obtain them will range from PvP to WvW to PvE to dungeons.
So clearly, the CURRENT situation may require us to do mostly Fractals of the Mist in order to acquire pink-lettered items. But as more ascended item types are released into the game, this is likely to change.
And besides, if you are not already fully geared in exotics, you don’t even need to chase after the ascended items just yet. Orange items are still the best there are for everything except rings and back items, while you work towards your purple weapon for the next year or so.
Thanks for your opinion Khristophoros.7194, I hope for this games sake I am overstating the problems ( but I don’t think I am) but none the less they are problems that didn’t exist before this patch and we already have multiple confirmations on the forums that all these issues have already been encounter.
The main thing I disagree with is when you said the agony mechanic will cause people to discriminate.
First of all, it applies only to one dungeon. If it’s an issue, it’s not as big as you make it seem. You can still do all the other dungeons and other content just like before.
Secondly, from my experience playing fractals, I doubt that people will want to pug higher difficulties anyway. I think the higher difficulties of this dungeon are designed for organized groups. I don’t see that as a problem because it’s only a small part of the game. It’s not a trend that the game is heading in. They’re not changing any other content to be like it.
So. The real issue here is that the whole game is being focused around this new dungeon regardless of if players want to play it or not. Adding other ways to get ascended gear aside from this dungeon will fix that.
CURRENTLY, the only way to acquire ascended rings is through Fractals of the Mist.
CURRENTLY, the only way to acquire ascended back items is through the Mystic Forge.
CURRENTLY, there is no way to acquire ascended items for any other equipment slot.
ArenaNet designers have stated that it will eventually be possible to acquire a full set of ascended items, and that the methods to obtain them will range from PvP to WvW to PvE to dungeons.
So clearly, the CURRENT situation may require us to do mostly Fractals of the Mist in order to acquire pink-lettered items. But as more ascended item types are released into the game, this is likely to change.
And besides, if you are not already fully geared in exotics, you don’t even need to chase after the ascended items just yet. Orange items are still the best there are for everything except rings and back items, while you work towards your purple weapon for the next year or so.
And that’s great and all, so then the developers should be able to put allot of my fears to rest should they ever care to detail when they plan to add these option and answer a few questions on their new direction.
Will you ever put a path back to the top end gear via Karma and crafting?
How they plan on supporting the open world endgame content?
How they see the open world endgame content living alongside all-day–sucker endgame instanced content whisking away players into their private little 5 man games.
How they plan to fix the separation between players that’s cropping up if you don’t keep up the repeatable dungeon difficulty level?
How they plan to deal with players refusing to group with other based on their mitigation (Agony) armor?
Since this new gear power level was introduced without an increase in levels will the open world level 80 zones have their Mob strength increased so they do not become trivial?
When is the next projected gear increase coming, in WoW we can expect one every 12 to 18 months what plans are there to keep the game viable after this?
Why would you do all the dungeons you could before if it doesn’t give the best rewards? It’s like tier progression in WoW..you don’t do the earlier stuff once better stuff has been released as your getting less reward for your effort. Because once you get those items and move into the world and go to differnt zones/area’s those items will be lowered anyways.
It seems we now have the worst of both worlds now. The best items are in select few places, those best items once you go into the world will be downgraded…What is the point here? I really don’t know anymore.
Thanks for your opinion Khristophoros.7194, I hope for this games sake I am overstating the problems ( but I don’t think I am) but none the less they are problems that didn’t exist before this patch and we already have multiple confirmations on the forums that all these issues have already been encounter.
The main thing I disagree with is when you said the agony mechanic will cause people to discriminate.
First of all, it applies only to one dungeon. If it’s an issue, it’s not as big as you make it seem. You can still do all the other dungeons and other content just like before.
Secondly, from my experience playing fractals, I doubt that people will want to pug higher difficulties anyway. I think the higher difficulties of this dungeon are designed for organized groups. I don’t see that as a problem because it’s only a small part of the game. It’s not a trend that the game is heading in. They’re not changing any other content to be like it.
So. The real issue here is that the whole game is being focused around this new dungeon regardless of if players want to play it or not. Adding other ways to get ascended gear aside from this dungeon will fix that.
Have you ever played a game with mitigation armor? This isn’t a 25 man raid that you might be able to take one or two guys in under equipped. The majority of people are going to want to stack there odds of success by eliminating players that are under equipped….Right? No one is going to want a 5th guy along they have to keep picking up off the floor.
Not that it matters much since we see it happening right now with players not wanting to run the dungeon with players on a lower difficulty and others looking for a gear score tool.
And yes, adding back the “Play the game your way” systems they broke with this dungeon would go a long way to fixing the problem.
CURRENTLY, the only way to acquire ascended rings is through Fractals of the Mist.
CURRENTLY, the only way to acquire ascended back items is through the Mystic Forge.
CURRENTLY, there is no way to acquire ascended items for any other equipment slot.
Nobody can tell us what they’ll do, but you can’t deny that NOW and for a long time (I don’t think the next ‘big’ content-patch will be released this year) the players are forced to run the new Dungeon: New Gear => obtained by Tokens => Tokens drop only in Fractals => Fractals have a ascending level, loot is getting better each lvl => Players who can’t play the new dungeon NOW fear to fall off (and – for now – they will).
Edit: If ANet would tell us now: ‘Guys, calm down, in about 1 month you can buy ascended gear for ~60k karma/each or from “regular” dungeon-tokens…’, I think a lot of people would be satisfied.
Well said. I’m actually already seeing the effects; I just hit level 80 yesterday and excitedly went over to Lion’s Arch to get a group for Citadel of Flame story/explorer, because I hadn’t run the dungeon yet (it sounds cool) and the exotic armor from CoF looks awesome.
Here’s what I saw in chat:
-LFG for FoTM 3
-LF2M for FOM level 4
-LF3M for fotm level 1 (level 80’s only)!!
-LFG for FOTM
-LFG for level 2 FotM
After about 25 minutes of trying to get a group started for something OTHER than FoTM, I gave up and started a new character. Maybe I’ll try playing the “end game” again in a few weeks when the FotM is no longer FotM.
Well considering the long drawn out way they are releasing the Ascended gear and the Karma nerfs it’s likely the old dungeons and open world endgame areas will be obsolete for a while. Welcome to the new FotM game.
Well considering the long drawn out way they are releasing the Ascended gear and the Karma nerfs it’s likely the old dungeons and open world endgame areas will be obsolete for a while. Welcome to the new FotM game.
I’ll probably give it a fair chance for a few weeks and then head back to League of Legends if they don’t radically change their design philosophy…
we still have to take into consideration that most players, didnt even see all the zones and dungeons, even on STORY mode, yet.
so really.
yeah the fractals are a downward spiral treadmill for that minority few who went thru all the content.
but i “hope” there is still a lot of people that have 100-200h played and are not done with even half the content that are still going to do the other parts, at least once, while the players that played too much will farm the fractals like D3 zombies.
we still have to take into consideration that most players, didnt even see all the zones and dungeons, even on STORY mode, yet.
so really.
yeah the fractals are a downward spiral treadmill for that minority few who went thru all the content.
but i “hope” there is still a lot of people that have 100-200h played and are not done with even half the content that are still going to do the other parts, at least once, while the players that played too much will farm the fractals like D3 zombies.
I got to have over 500 hours into the game and I haven’t seen many of the old dungeons but the problem is if you fall behind on the fractals dungeon and the community out paces you in difficulty level, you have problems finding a group. So many people are sort of afraid to get off the hamster wheel at the moment.
ArenaNet designers have stated that it will eventually be possible to acquire a full set of ascended items, and that the methods to obtain them will range from PvP to WvW to PvE to dungeons.
1 – Why do you believe ANET on this point, when the very introduction of Ascended gear made their manifesto a lie ?
2 – So ? The current situation is still unacceptable. Promising a fix “eventually” is unacceptable, since “eventually” includes “years from now”. At the very least, I want a timeframe for a fix.
We need a really clear statement from ANet that Ascended gear will be available through crafting, WvW, open world content, in addition to dungeons, and that there won’t be a big stretch of time between its addition to the other spheres of gameplay.
They have indicated this might be the case, but not with the clarity necessary.
I don’t like the gear treadmill, but I will tolerate it if I can reasonably keep up without running dungeons.
Here is a question. Why was it rolled out without offering those other ways to obtain it? The exotic has all paths. This is a new tier afterall. So if you are trying to stay within your game framework, why only make it obtainable via a dungeon?
Oh wait, traditional MMOs do that. You can only obtain the top tier gear via dungeon runs. So if it was offered via the other methods now, would those that love this approach have really come back or played more?
And if not, will they really introduce the other methods anytime soon. Having it available via other means in the next 4-6 months is too late. By then, the people who spend a lot of time running dungeons will fully out gear everyone else and therefore, be more powerful based on gear alone. Oh wait again, I think I just answered my question.
And this is why I think raids are next (by whatever name they call them, and my guess is they will call them ‘guild events’). If they want the progression dungeon crowd, they’re going to have to go at least up to 10 mans to attract the largest possible number.
“…we don’t expect you to be forced into dungeons at endgame.”
2 – So ? The current situation is still unacceptable. Promising a fix “eventually” is unacceptable, since “eventually” includes “years from now”. At the very least, I want a timeframe for a fix.
I can give you an educated guess, if you want. With the current system, the treadmill will come to an end after the full ascended gear set and ascended infusions have been released. If we go by what the first content patch introduced(2 gear pieces and 1 infusion tier), the next gear release would have to be in another 3 months.
10 gear pieces | 4 infusion tiers left
February 2013 = Ascended Amulet and Accessory
July 2013 = 3 Ascended armor pieces, Masterwork Infusions
Oktober 2013 = 3 Ascended armor pieces
January 2014 = Rare Infusions
July 2014 = Exotic Infusions
December 2014 = Ascended Infusions
Hope to see you in 2015, the year of the sheep! Baaahahaha! (how fitting)
Take a bow, Logun. You’ve encompassed the collective emotion of those that have been burned by this.
We should remember, however, that the pain we feel can only be a fraction of what the developers that are still on the team must feel. They gave birth and nourished this game to young adulthood only to be forced to take that twinkle-eyed creation, with a life full of promise, and hold it by the wrists while forcefully penetrating its innocence away. Inducing tears and blood, all while looking in their game’s glassy, hollow, water-filled eyes, day after violating day.
Yet another example of how bad game design breeds a bad community
Just a few days ago we had a community of players that would risk death and a repair bill to fight their way to you face down in the mud body. Today we have this ….
The cry’s for the single player open world end game have started as a result of fewer players participating in the the content…… it’s like watching a train come off the tracks in slow motion.
ArenaNet designers have stated that it will eventually be possible to acquire a full set of ascended items, and that the methods to obtain them will range from PvP to WvW to PvE to dungeons.
1 – Why do you believe ANET on this point, when the very introduction of Ascended gear made their manifesto a lie ?
2 – So ? The current situation is still unacceptable. Promising a fix “eventually” is unacceptable, since “eventually” includes “years from now”. At the very least, I want a timeframe for a fix.
1 – Why should I believe a bunch of doomsayers on a forum (that has had doomsayers for some time) over the company that has made two games that I am still enjoying?
2 – Currently, the difference between exotic and ascended is three equipment slots that offer a total of +5 stat points each (spread out over 3 stats). Hardly a noticeable difference.
As it is now, the ascended items are an intrinsic part of Fractals of the Mists progression, but Fractals of the Mists is also the only place to obtain them.
However, all Fractals of the Mists content is still playable at lower difficulty levels.
So what is so unacceptable right now that needs fixing immediately?
The cry’s for the single player open world end game have started as a result of fewer players participating in the the content…… it’s like watching a train come off the tracks in slow motion.
Wait, I am getting more and more confused about the outcome of this patch. First, I see concerns from people who cannot get Fractal lvl 1 groups 2 days after release. Now, I see complaints about lack of players in Southsun Cove. How can this be? The new content just came out a few days ago.
Why are people not playing in Southsun? When the game launched, the starter areas were packed? Is this no different? There were tons of people in Orr pre-patch so I know there were enough high-levels.
What is going on here? If this new content is good, people should be consuming it like crazy. At least for the first few weeks.
Yet another example of how bad game design breeds a bad community
Just a few days ago we had a community of players that would risk death and a repair bill to fight their way to you face down in the mud body. Today we have this ….
Yes, the Fractal discussion is getting ugly. So much for this game being one of the friendliest MMOs. So sad. How could they not know that their design change would foster bad behavior and undermine cooperative play?
2 – Currently, the difference between exotic and ascended is three equipment slots that offer a total of +5 stat points each (spread out over 3 stats). Hardly a noticeable difference.
10,000+ posts later and you still think it’s only a 5 point difference spread over 3 stats, it’s 5 per stat, plus the bonus from infusion on just 1 earring, the accidental legendary boost also shows it’s more than 5 per stat on the bigger pieces. No wonder the merri go round will continue to go around.
Another derailing post. ^^ North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
