Guild Wars 2

Reaver.9256:

I can go buy the best gear in the game for about 1.5 gold on the market if I want with no grind whatsoever.

2 Problems there:

1) Legendary is better then Exotic now. I have yet to see Legendary on the TP.
2) Ascended is account bound until used then it’s soul bound. No sell, no trade.

You want best in game? You are going have to craft it, grind it, grind gold and/or open your wallet for gems to get gold to buy it from someone. And it ain’t gonna be 1.5gold either.

moirweyn.9872:

Reaver.9256:

I can go buy the best gear in the game for about 1.5 gold on the market if I want with no grind whatsoever.

2 Problems there:

1) Legendary is better then Exotic now. I have yet to see Legendary on the TP.
2) Ascended is account bound until used then it’s soul bound. No sell, no trade.

You want best in game? You are going have to craft it, grind it, grind gold and/or open your wallet for gems to get gold to buy it from someone. And it ain’t gonna be 1.5gold either.

I see a third problem. I’ve geared 3 level 80’s with the best gear in the game. The armor on the TP alone cost ~20 gold each, so I don’t know where you can obtain the best gear for 1.5. You can’t even get one boot for 1.5 gold. This appears to be a post that’s not distracted by the facts.

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

did Anet broke this?
Yes actually.

Try to get an ascended backpack/ring currently…..

-Agony resistance is the DEFINITION of "spending hours preparing to have fun ".

-New tiers
-New equip level
-New tiers of ascended (i menan ascended infused, capacitor infused, ascended to talk about the 3 currently known)
-Infusions

Are a gear trendmill

Fortunately in my country you cannot wordplay to trick people, and what is important is HOW is that mannifesto interpreted by common people.

And well it seems people think is no more valid….at least actually…..they can fix things? sure
Is manifesto deceptive advertising in relation of current game state? without any doubt yes.

Enjoy your wordplay….its worth as much as ToS: nothing.

P.S. and i’m in favor to give them another chance, but please don t make people fool with these threads….

Raine.1394:

moirweyn.9872:

Reaver.9256:

I can go buy the best gear in the game for about 1.5 gold on the market if I want with no grind whatsoever.

2 Problems there:

1) Legendary is better then Exotic now. I have yet to see Legendary on the TP.
2) Ascended is account bound until used then it’s soul bound. No sell, no trade.

You want best in game? You are going have to craft it, grind it, grind gold and/or open your wallet for gems to get gold to buy it from someone. And it ain’t gonna be 1.5gold either.

I see a third problem. I’ve geared 3 level 80’s with the best gear in the game. The armor on the TP alone cost ~20 gold each, so I don’t know where you can obtain the best gear for 1.5. You can’t even get one boot for 1.5 gold. This appears to be a post that’s not distracted by the facts.

I see a fourth problem, I don’t think you can buy WvW gear on the TP.

Kinda like the Spanish Inquisition now…

Raine.1394:

Galen Grey.4709:

Raine.1394:

Mackdose.6504:

Raine.1394:

I played WoW for years and grinded out countless tiers in PvE and PvP. The grind in WoW and the grind in GW2 are in no way comparable, you are right, but it is GW2 that utterly dwarfs WoW for the steepness or difficulty or time investment in the grind. I could get a set of gear in WoW in the time it would take to grind out a single piece in GW2—and there was zero cost in gold! Those appealing to steepness or difficulty of the grind in this way have clearly never played WoW or never marched through the tiers. It was tedious as all grinds are, but it was easy compared to GW2.

Comparing apples to apples, (max gear in GW2 to max gear in WoW) You’d have to:

In WoW:

1. Heroics for pre-raid
2. 1 raid per week, LFR, Daily grind until geared for heroic raids.
3. 1 Heroic Raid per week

I’d reckon about 2 months before you had full heroic tier, then you’d get a content patch a couple weeks later and you’d repeat the raid/LFR per week/ heroic per week/ new dailies until you’re back at status quo. Oh yeah, and you’d be doing this with 9 other people who may or may not be as dedicated as you.

In GW2:

1. Story mode once, for a given dungeon.
2. Explorables until you have a set of exotics
3. Fractals to realistically 15 before maybe you would be stopped by agony.

This can be accomplished in about a month from level 1.

Yeah, night and day difference, with GW2 being on top.

Not true at all. Nobody did heroic raids except the top tier of raiders. Everyone else geared to the tier just below. It took a couple, three weeks max. I could also gear up to the the top tier in PvP in under a month. There is no comparison between the grind in WoW and GW2 from any standpoint. Especially, when you consider that cash is required with GW2 to shorten the incredibly long grind. WoW didn’t require the infusion of real money as GW2 does. The mats required are just insane.

And honestly whats stopping you for gearing exotic in gw2?

Is there really anything you will not be able to enjoy if have an exotic set as opposed to ascended set?

My problem is conceptual. Check my sig for the low down. Vertical progression is synonymous with perpetual gear grind. Since I don’t enjoy gear grinds, yes, there are things in the new GW2 I won’t enjoy, i.e., the gear grind.

so my next question to you, why are you perfectly fine with ignoring the top tear gear in WoW but not in Gw2? Is there something tangable that makes it okey to have 2nd best gear tier in WoW but not in Gw2?

Mackdose.6504:

Vertical progression is only bad when also used with gated content, in my opinion.

Exactly mine point of view. I don’t like WoW(or many other MMOs) not because there is a vertical progression! It’s exactly the opposite! I do like to evolve my character very much. What I really don’t like is the fact that I couldn’t see the ending of WotLK without spending months just to get the right gear!

LordByron.8369:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

did Anet broke this?
Yes actually.

Try to get an ascended backpack/ring currently…..

-Agony resistance is the DEFINITION of "spending hours preparing to have fun ".

-New tiers
-New equip level
-New tiers of ascended (i menan ascended infused, capacitor infused, ascended to talk about the 3 currently known)
-Infusions

Are a gear trendmill

Fortunately in my country you cannot wordplay to trick people, and what is important is HOW is that mannifesto interpreted by common people.

And well it seems people think is no more valid….at least actually…..they can fix things? sure
Is manifesto deceptive advertising in relation of current game state? without any doubt yes.

Enjoy your wordplay….its worth as much as ToS: nothing.

P.S. and i’m in favor to give them another chance, but please don t make people fool with these threads….

Dont you think you’re taking this too far! If you were free to interpret any advertisement your way you can be sure everyone could point out at any advertisement and say its deceptive!

You can even say that gw1 breaks the manifesto if you want just because the manifesto says I can play the game any way I want and I decide to interpret that as say being able to bot and if I do that (LUCKLY ) they ban me!

there you go

I am sorry but you’re not free to interpret stuff any way you decide ! For you Ascended armor breaks the manifesto fair enough ! for me Ascended armor is entirely optional and has 0 effect on my game so how can it break the manifesto for me? Is my opinion any less valid ?

Siphaed.9235:

Several times over the past few week since Ascended gear was announced, people claimed that Arena.Net ‘violated them’ and broke the Manifesto. They’re claiming lies, claiming that the Manifesto should be “amended”, and have the gull to request refund for a $60 game they’ve played for nearly 3 months now (if you /age and have played more than 100hrs, you’ve gotten your money’s worth for sure and deserve no such refund).

So, what’s this stone tablet document that people seem to bow to? What is the Manifesto? Well, there’s two of them:

Video Manifesto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKtGxVj3msM

Blog Manifesto:
http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto

Out of both of those Manifestos, I find that neither of them once state “No vertical gear progression” as people claim. They both promise a fun game (check), different style action-based combat (check), and a more unique approach on questing outside the norm (check).

So, I’d like to see a stop of the lies misinformation on this forum: ones claiming that the Manifesto told them absolutely no vertical gear progression. Those lies misconceptions are nothing but manifestations of people trying to push their own expectations and interpretations of the game upon others. I’m sorry that Guild Wars 1 never had gear progression and this one does, but right from the start the developers said they were making a true blue MMORPG and not just another Guild Wars stamped with the number 2.

Thanks for posting this.
I saw the video and read the blog sometime ago (before launch.)
After seeing it again, and playing the game since headstart I’ve come to realize how much of the Manifesto ANet actually broke. LOL… You make “world changing” decisions? A fully branching different storyline?

The part about, not preparing to have fun but to actually go out and have fun was cool. So, can you go out and have fun in FOTM lvl 10+ (I forget cause I don’t run FOTM) without Ascended gear? Can everyone who wants to do Dungeons do Dungeons without standing around for 20-30 mins spamming LFG?

You are right. There is no mention of vertical progression. There is only mention of doing things differently than other MMOs and no grind. So if other MMOs don’t have vertical progression, then yes you’re right, ANET has stuck with the Manifesto after all. And the community should be ashamed of telling lies, that ANET did not stick to their Manifesto. Cause, heck there is no other MMORPG out there that has Dungeon Tire 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 armour/weapons.

And boy, do I feel like a real liar, now that you’ve let me know that I can complete a story quest/Meta Event/Dungeon Story mode/PvP zone conquest, to get my shiny new Ascended gear. Why didn’t any of the developers mention this before? No grind!!!
Thanks for putting me straight.

Seriously though, my entire focus on GW2 was due to the Manifesto saying that ANET were going to do things differently to other games. They even went so far as to say that gamers who had never been interested in an MMO should really check this out. I’ve totally specced out my Dragonborn and my Commander Sheppard and still had fun playing. As a single player gammer/even multiplayer, why would I want to jump into a gear threadmill? That’s my single player side of things.

I don’t mind loosing a battle. Knowing that I just sucked that day, not because I should have brought better stat armour (just like nearly every other MMO out there.)

HiddenNick.7206:

Mackdose.6504:

Vertical progression is only bad when also used with gated content, in my opinion.

Exactly mine point of view. I don’t like WoW(or many other MMOs) not because there is a vertical progression! It’s exactly the opposite! I do like to evolve my character very much. What I really don’t like is the fact that I couldn’t see the ending of WotLK without spending months just to get the right gear!

How do you think would vertical stag progression without gated content work? If player stats increase over time mob stats have to do so too to keep the content challenging and this automatically creates a gate. If mobs don’t scale the new content would be far too easy for those players that already have the latest gear and if they do scale it is too hard for those that don’t have it. A vertical progression will always create a gate, unless you reset the progression whenever you release new content. But if you do so, why have vertical progression at all?

Galen Grey.4709:

LordByron.8369:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

did Anet broke this?
Yes actually.

Try to get an ascended backpack/ring currently…..

-Agony resistance is the DEFINITION of "spending hours preparing to have fun ".

-New tiers
-New equip level
-New tiers of ascended (i menan ascended infused, capacitor infused, ascended to talk about the 3 currently known)
-Infusions

Are a gear trendmill

Fortunately in my country you cannot wordplay to trick people, and what is important is HOW is that mannifesto interpreted by common people.

And well it seems people think is no more valid….at least actually…..they can fix things? sure
Is manifesto deceptive advertising in relation of current game state? without any doubt yes.

Enjoy your wordplay….its worth as much as ToS: nothing.

P.S. and i’m in favor to give them another chance, but please don t make people fool with these threads….

Dont you think you’re taking this too far! If you were free to interpret any advertisement your way you can be sure everyone could point out at any advertisement and say its deceptive!

You can even say that gw1 breaks the manifesto if you want just because the manifesto says I can play the game any way I want and I decide to interpret that as say being able to bot and if I do that (LUCKLY ) they ban me!

there you go

I am sorry but you’re not free to interpret stuff any way you decide ! For you Ascended armor breaks the manifesto fair enough ! for me Ascended armor is entirely optional and has 0 effect on my game so how can it break the manifesto for me? Is my opinion any less valid ?

So you are interpreting the Manifesto the way, you, want? … LOL…
As you said its your opinion.

Falcon Night.4653:

Galen Grey.4709:

LordByron.8369:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

did Anet broke this?
Yes actually.

Try to get an ascended backpack/ring currently…..

-Agony resistance is the DEFINITION of "spending hours preparing to have fun ".

-New tiers
-New equip level
-New tiers of ascended (i menan ascended infused, capacitor infused, ascended to talk about the 3 currently known)
-Infusions

Are a gear trendmill

Fortunately in my country you cannot wordplay to trick people, and what is important is HOW is that mannifesto interpreted by common people.

And well it seems people think is no more valid….at least actually…..they can fix things? sure
Is manifesto deceptive advertising in relation of current game state? without any doubt yes.

Enjoy your wordplay….its worth as much as ToS: nothing.

P.S. and i’m in favor to give them another chance, but please don t make people fool with these threads….

Dont you think you’re taking this too far! If you were free to interpret any advertisement your way you can be sure everyone could point out at any advertisement and say its deceptive!

You can even say that gw1 breaks the manifesto if you want just because the manifesto says I can play the game any way I want and I decide to interpret that as say being able to bot and if I do that (LUCKLY ) they ban me!

there you go

I am sorry but you’re not free to interpret stuff any way you decide ! For you Ascended armor breaks the manifesto fair enough ! for me Ascended armor is entirely optional and has 0 effect on my game so how can it break the manifesto for me? Is my opinion any less valid ?

So you are interpreting the Manifesto the way, you, want? … LOL…
As you said its your opinion.

Of course, did I tell him he is wrong? Nope I told him his opinion is fair … Highlighted it for you

Both our opinions are just opinions, his opinion doesnt mean the manifesto is a lie and as a result that is false advertisment just like my opinion doesnt mean the manifesto is absolute truth ! Its subjective like any kind of mission statement after all.

They state what they want to achieve and the way they go about doing that can vary from person to person!

Like in this case for some people Ascended gear is a mandatory grind just for the simple fact it exist!

For me to be a mandatory grind they have to gate content and/or put me at a disadvantage in some situation.

To me personally Ascended gear doesnt do that yet! now maybe in the future they will release content who’s difficulty level mandates Ascended gear and then the situation will change but right now I can still do anything in masterworks if I want.

Is any of these opposing views wrong or false?

It’s amazing to see how fast you forgott whats great about your game. I’ve red through the AMA (thanks for trying to answer questions) block and I would like guessing the reality behind. First of all I’m sure that prelaunch you knew you had to deal with the hardcore gamers and there yelling for endgame content. Your first reaction was to promote the design idea which to me is horizontal progression. Then you had some findings that convinced you to install mechanics used in other games to serve the hardcore gamers. Your belief was to do it rather sooner then later to get us all used to the thought while we are still new to the game. Although I can understand what you are trying to do in pleasing everybody I’ d like to express some concerns and critics.
I think its pretty obvious that you did not expect how many people would be grinding for the “shallow curve” items – nor how empty some parts of the game allready feel. But it is true to every MMO. People like to have the most powerful set of armor and weapons. I don’t think your “shallow curve” makes a huge difference to the basic mechanics you introduced. BiS is the call.
I don’t know how to argue against your massive data, which obviously convinced you to install a new mechanic. So I will try to explain the experience I’m having. I’m in a rather small guild. Like me, most of the members are older than 30, have a job, family and therefor rather limited time to play. Which is 1 to 3 hours 4 or 5 days a week. Until I hit lvl 80 I played at least 3 different characters, because I could not diced, which one I like the most. All starting areas and story beginnings are the best in MMO but even comparable with the best singler player games I ve seen.
I hit lvl 80 even before the changes and already felt the need of playing certain content in order to get my exotic stuff together. Then I realised that condition damage is not the answer to everything and saw the need of a second set of gear, which is more power focused. That was when you introduced ascended gear. I gave up haunting for that gear. Which gave us back some great moments over the last few days. We where just “doing hearts” but got carried away by events, jumping puzzles and looking at the gorgeous landscapes. I realized that to me this is actually the way I want to play this game.
So back to the topic. To me it is my way of playing the game versus getting drawn in to a mechanics I hate. Of course you can say play it the way you like – nobody forces you. But at some point I also like to show off achievements. Mastering crafting, exploring different races and there personal story and so on. But this doesn’t get me exotics or ascended gear. I see the day coming when I will be asked to show my equip for entering a dungeon group and will be kicked out, as it happened to me in other games (not in GW1). If you like it or not you introduced gear treadmill just as many other players pointed out as well. Even a slow treadmill is one and one that does not go with the time I m able to spend in the game and the way I want to play.
Why don’t you follow the path your where trying to take? Why not doing events in the other citys? Race specific, using the home instances and bringing people in to the areas which are really beautiful (which is not Orr). Theres is a high potential for getting players emotionally involved, rather than leaving them with the empty feeling after grinding for a piece of virtual something.

nachtnebel.9168:

How do you think would vertical stag progression without gated content work?

Lol!!! Did you ever played fractals?! AC gear does not gate content there but difficulty level instead! And that is just a new challenge. Entirely optional. Like difficulty levels in any other game!

nachtnebel.9168:

If player stats increase over time mob stats have to do so too to keep the content challenging and this automatically creates a gate. If mobs don’t scale the new content would be far too easy for those players that already have the latest gear and if they do scale it is too hard for those that don’t have it.

Did you ever played guild wars 2?! Didn’t you heard about character scaling? Right now I have level 80 fully exotic/asc geared character, and I can still play with my friend who has level 11 and enjoy the game!

LordByron.8369:

Try to get an ascended backpack/ring currently…..

-Agony resistance is the DEFINITION of "spending hours preparing to have fun ".

-New tiers
-New equip level
-New tiers of ascended (i menan ascended infused, capacitor infused, ascended to talk about the 3 currently known)
-Infusions

You realise that ascended gears are optional right?

If players want the “optional max stats” or “optional skins”, it means players love grinding and working towards a bonus goal. Players should leave the optional bonus to dedicated players. Casuals play the fun contents. That’s the right way of playing Guild Wars 2.

If achieving the bonus gears are considered “…to have fun” for players, it means players are fond of gear progression in their heart. They actually like climbing for better stats. =p

Players can play the content without the need of agony resistance. Players don’t even need to prepare for it. -.- Players already experience the fun of the content by playing from Lv1 to Lv10. Lv11 onwards are just bonus rounds with agony that’re not mandatory. On higher maps, players still experience the same set of maps that players had already experience the fun from Lv1 to 10. Going up level 11 and above are meant for dedicated and hardcore players. Unless players like the fun of progressing in dungeons, yet again, it means players are actually fond of vertical progression in their heart.

“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.”

The game sticks to it’s manifesto in every view I see it.

1) I love mmorpgs because I experience all kinds of human nature and emotions in-game. I love the no-wall progressions in mmorpgs that doesn’t exist in console games.

2) I hate traditional mmorpgs like maplestory because it forces to me get best gear X/Y/Z to explore new maps and Zakum. Maple forced me to grind to unlock experiences. Gw2 has access of experiences available to everyone without grinding for any tier of gears.

3) GW2 doesn’t suck my life away and force me to get ascended gears. Instead, ascended is a bonus that I don’t have to rush or panicked. It’s a solid goal that I can choose to take my time or rush towards under my own decision. I see “best stats” are optional in this game, unlike some other mmorpgs which best stats are mandatory.

4) In some mmorpgs I played, I’m forced to need gear X to even get to experience content X. In GW2, I didn’t have to prepare anything before I play the new content, the fractal dungeons. I get to experience the fun of the new content right away.

A 10% increase is a 10% increase as whiteside said. That advantage in WvW is the diff between a win and a loss.

To say Gw2 is less of a grind is a lie.This game shouldnt have been called guild wars 2 because it is nothing like gw1 and is incredibly disingenuous to do so.It has been shown time and time again that appealing to the 1% uber grinders is a death nail because you cant control the power creep and everyone else is left behind and they leave.
Right now the game has no direction and cant tell if it is a horizontal or vertical progression.They do nothing well and the game is suffering. Pick a direction and do it well. Just note that all Vert Prog has failed to beat wow and only a few have remained popular and provided a decent return.

Anet have to around Feb to get things in order before some things hit the net and really take the player base away. I hope they can get it together by then.

HiddenNick.7206:

nachtnebel.9168:

How do you think would vertical stag progression without gated content work?

Lol!!! Did you ever played fractals?! AC gear does not gate content there but difficulty level instead! And that is just a new challenge. Entirely optional. Like difficulty levels in any other game!

AC gear creates a gate, try to get to lvl 20 without using it. You won’t survive Jade Maws auto agony every time he switches phase or you re-enter combat. He won’t just send you into down state, he will outright kill you. And since you can’t pass this gate you will never have the chance to get infused ascended rings.
In addition mobs do scale there even without agony it would not be possible to run the higher the higher levels in greens. You need certain gear to beat the DPS and HP checks.
The difficulty levels are just there to justify the gear, without them agony resi would be pointless. And above a certain level it works as a second gate that doesn’t just check your agony resi but also the rest of your gear.

nachtnebel.9168:

If player stats increase over time mob stats have to do so too to keep the content challenging and this automatically creates a gate. If mobs don’t scale the new content would be far too easy for those players that already have the latest gear and if they do scale it is too hard for those that don’t have it.

Did you ever played guild wars 2?! Didn’t you heard about character scaling? Right now I have level 80 fully exotic/asc geared character, and I can still play with my friend who has level 11 and enjoy the game!

Did you ever play GW2 or do I just not get your sarcasm? Even while downscaled a lvl 80 char in extoics is far more powerful then a char at the appropriate level range.
In addition you should read my full statement. If the scaling system would effectively remove the vertical progression from the game why should we have it in the first place?

nachtnebel.9168:

A vertical progression will always create a gate

In gw2 it does not![/quote]
Wait until the whole range of ascended gear is released, then we can talk again. You will see that this gear either will create a gate, that content will be too easy for those that have it or that the progression will be removed due to the scaling system.

“We don’t make grindy games”

Well OP, I think this is something broken.

During the long waiting years , the assumption by virtually every media outlet and player was that there would be NO vertical progression just as there was in GW1.

Not once did Anet come out say “well actually guys, what we mean is this..”

So either
1. Anet were not aware of all the articles and forum posts where people said oh great i’m so tired of gear treadmills, power creep and all that stuff. What a great Manifesto this is.
2. There was a huge disconnect between the game developers and the markering/CM teams leading to huge almighty screw up.
3. They knew in advance what the reaction would be, but chose not to clarify because it would reduce sales.
4. They changed direction post release and tried to make out as if it was intended all along, knowing we can’t prove otherwise.

Personally I would go for number 2.

At first I was like oO not again manifesto talk. But thank you for posting the “manifesto” that everyone speaks about. At least now we can all discuss the facts. Guess it is the last time they will give a blog post such a pretentious title.

lot of misinformation in the replies in this thread.

legendaries still have the same stats as exotics.

ascended gear is another power teir, but it is not the prestige item.
for example, rings are about 30% chance for completing a level 10 fractal dungeon. which requires
NO agony gear

getting level 10 in fractal is hardly a grind, and it isnt super rare to get the item required to make back pieces, my friend has 9 of them, and the recipe requires one, by level 10

now the rare items in the game?
infinite light
anomoly
volcanus
precursors
teir 3 armors

yes teir 3 armors are harder to get than ascended gear.

so yeah, while they need to do some balancing, place ascended gear through out the game, and make rewards better, the fact is they still arent making you have to excessively grind for stats.

there were two major offenders with ascended items, the infusions which used a ton of mats, and the cape which uses 250 teir 6 items, but they said in the AMA that that was a mistep, and they dont want things to be that grindy to obtain.

long story short
a lot of people decided that the manifesto meant they would have a flat stat cap, when it really had nothing to do with a flat stat cap, IN FACT
they said in interviews MONTHS before even beta, that they would probably have level cap increases in expansions.

no one lied to anyone in that respect. Hold them accountable for excessive grind, but to say that horizontal progression was promised is a complete lie.

you can have intense grind with horizontal progression just fine, i remember ffxi stayed at level 75 for years, but in order to get the best of these various stat set ups you had to grind for years at times, im not even opposed to that game, but the fact is grind and vertical progression are not one and the same.

Mackdose.6504:

Avatar.1923:

the stat progression, as mild as it is, is in opposition to their original intent.

But that’s flat out incorrect. Mike O’Brien is on record stating that (mild) vertical progression has always been on the road map.

I wish he would have shared that little nugget of information more openly and freely with us, the people that bought his game on faith when it wasn’t even out, just to get access to the Beta.

I see no mention of it in the Manifesto, or any of the press releases written before October 2012.

phys.7689:

lot of misinformation in the replies in this thread.
.

Quote anet:

I agree that the crafting materials required for Ascended Gear are to much of a grind and we are looking to balance the requirements

for the vial just check all the people not getting any in 50 runs (i got 1 in 50 runs and no ring)

And next time remember to consider also token cost and material cost.
Average backpack is costing from 40 (condition dmg) to 100 Gold (berserker)…

Now made this equation:

100G for 10 items (armor trinkets)
compare this to the cost of a legendary (1000G)

It was a mistake but despite having slightly less grinding requirements the cost of ascended piece is comparable to legendary weapons.

1:36 – Colin Johansen – We just dont want to make a game where people grind. How do you get ascended gear?

2:17 <I dont know her name> – We dont want to make the same MMO everyone else is making. What is item progression, at any degree?

“GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun” – Going after ascended gear is a grinding treadmill. Rather, the upgrades/and upgraded infusion slots over time(making the previous infusion slot obsolete) is a grinding treadmill). Ofcourse no MMO forces you onto a treadmill. I wish people would stop spouting that. “Dont run FoTM and dont get ascended gear. Its that simple, if you dont want to be a part of it” You are almost validating every arguement that is against ascended gear. If you say “Dont go after ascended gear, noone is forcing you”, thats kind of covering up the fact that you think it is a treadmill. No MMO is going to force you to grind out the best gear or items. Of course. WoW is the same way, Rift is the same way. Nothing new. But if you want to stay mildly competitive you must.

I found this in 5 minutes. Re-read carefully.

Chamone.6890:

Mackdose.6504:

Avatar.1923:

the stat progression, as mild as it is, is in opposition to their original intent.

But that’s flat out incorrect. Mike O’Brien is on record stating that (mild) vertical progression has always been on the road map.

I wish he would have shared that little nugget of information more openly and freely with us, the people that bought his game on faith when it wasn’t even out, just to get access to the Beta.

I see no mention of it in the Manifesto, or any of the press releases written before October 2012.

That’s kind of the point. They may not have stated they weren’t gonna add it, but they didn’t exactly deny it either. Not until AFTER many people who bought the game specifically for the “no vertical progression ever” made their purchase.

The whole thing is just one big bit of nasty business, and to bo honest, I’m ready to move on. Time to look forward to the things we can enjoy in the game, instead of complaining about what we don’t.

cesmode.4257:

1:36 – Colin Johansen – We just dont want to make a game where people grind. How do you get ascended gear?

2:17 <I dont know her name> – We dont want to make the same MMO everyone else is making. What is item progression, at any degree?

“GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun” – Going after ascended gear is a grinding treadmill. Rather, the upgrades/and upgraded infusion slots over time(making the previous infusion slot obsolete) is a grinding treadmill). Ofcourse no MMO forces you onto a treadmill. I wish people would stop spouting that. “Dont run FoTM and dont get ascended gear. Its that simple, if you dont want to be a part of it” You are almost validating every arguement that is against ascended gear. If you say “Dont go after ascended gear, noone is forcing you”, thats kind of covering up the fact that you think it is a treadmill. No MMO is going to force you to grind out the best gear or items. Of course. WoW is the same way, Rift is the same way. Nothing new. But if you want to stay mildly competitive you must.

I found this in 5 minutes. Re-read carefully.

It is very different! you cannot ignore armor in most MMO because your character stats become a barrier when doing high level content! better yet try to PvP with regular easy to get armor.

You mention rift for example, when you try to travel to ember Island the game actually tells you that you might have trouble if you’re not properly geared up. More so in raids each tier of raid has 3 stats used as a gating mechanism hit, focus and toughness. Each tier has its ranges of these which the game even explicately tells you.

Gw2 is different in that there is no such thing. No content at all has an gear requirement! The only exception so to speak being that in FoTM certain high difficulty levels will include agony to which you need specific gear to counteract. So again I am saying so called because your gear will not gate the content in FoTM just the difficulty!

Also Gw2 is designed in a way that PvE is all co-operative and never competitive. So having worst gear then the next person really doesnt make you any less competitive!
sPvP provides the same gear to anyone. So gear is again a non factor

in WvW gear will make a difference but a fairly small one! There are so many factors at play that personally I wouldnt worry! Someone could have the best gear possible and still be extremely disadvantaged if the other team has higher numbers, better tactics, better position, seige weapons, more skilled player etc…

This is all inconsequential kitten droppings if you ask me, there Manifesto “for me” is the game they shipped and they broke it. They know they broke it and they apologised and came up with a plan to fix it…..period end of story.
The added grind and Ascended gear are just a small nearly insignificant symptom of in the domino effect this last patch had on the game.
It divided the player base, its divided game play and players by content, its killed the open world endgame, sent the game in a path of reduced players choice for endgame, killed level 80 world zones and turned LA into a lobby for FotM, killed the path to the top level gear through karma, kill the path to top level gear through crafting, and forced everyone that is interested in top end progression into running a single 5 man dungeon …. Sorry I didn’t sign up for Borderlands 2.5 or Diablo 3.5 I want to play a Massively Multi player game in the open world. I don’t want to stand around in LA spamming in LA LFG..FotM..L2 for 30 min. for a hamster wheel dungeon that if I don’t keep up with my guild’s difficulty level I get left behind. This breaks the basic principles behind many of the reasons they made the design choices they made for the rest of the game.
Listen to their panel discussions and the Manifesto and the Colin/Eric interview regarding the endgame and listen partially closely to the “WHY” they did certain things and you’ll see why players feel this patch is off the rails.
You can read the rest of my thoughts about that here.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-New-GW2-Flavor-Rocks/first

Im sure this has been done but I’ll do it again.

Yakkington’s Ring(80 ascended) Opal Oricalchum Ring of the Explorer
50 Power 48 Power
50 Precision 48 Precision
10% Magic Find 3% Magic Find
18 Power 4% Magic Find(upgrade slot)
18 Precision 15 Precision(upgrade slot)
15 Power(upgrade slot)
Comes to:
68 Power 63 Power
68 Precision 63 Precision
10% Magic Find 7% Magic Find

Take one stat: 63 power / 68 Power, .92% . This means that the exotic is 92% as powerful as the ascended, leaving 8%..The ascended is 8% more powerful.

Compound that, eventually, against every item, if the same statistical difference holds true for everything. You are saying this is not big? I cant think off the top of my head how many slots there are, say there are 10(I know theres more). 10 slots * 5 stat points = 50 more stat points in any given category. Significant. Yes. Otherwise, why did you upgrade from Masterwork/Rare to exotic in the first place? Because Exotic is the best and you want to stay on top.

Now, in the AMA Chris said it was his intention to release ascended globally, but for whatever reason it didnt make it in. I had asked why was it rushed out the door when Arenanet is all about “when its ready”. His reply “A bad call”. Ok, I can understand that, sure. He also stated that ascended gear was always going to be in the game. How come this wasnt announced at launch or pre release or in beta? I bet if we would have known about ascended gear at launch, none of this would be happening right now. We would have considered ascended gear to be top dog from scratch and might not have wasted all the time getting exotics. So I actually question his truthfulness here.

Edit: Sorry about format. The post didnt come out the way it should have.

nachtnebel.9168:

HiddenNick.7206:

nachtnebel.9168:

How do you think would vertical stag progression without gated content work?

Lol!!! Did you ever played fractals?! AC gear does not gate content there but difficulty level instead! And that is just a new challenge. Entirely optional. Like difficulty levels in any other game!

AC gear creates a gate, try to get to lvl 20 without using it. You won’t survive Jade Maws auto agony every time he switches phase or you re-enter combat. He won’t just send you into down state, he will outright kill you. And since you can’t pass this gate you will never have the chance to get infused ascended rings.
In addition mobs do scale there even without agony it would not be possible to run the higher the higher levels in greens. You need certain gear to beat the DPS and HP checks.
The difficulty levels are just there to justify the gear, without them agony resi would be pointless. And above a certain level it works as a second gate that doesn’t just check your agony resi but also the rest of your gear.

nachtnebel.9168:

If player stats increase over time mob stats have to do so too to keep the content challenging and this automatically creates a gate. If mobs don’t scale the new content would be far too easy for those players that already have the latest gear and if they do scale it is too hard for those that don’t have it.

Did you ever played guild wars 2?! Didn’t you heard about character scaling? Right now I have level 80 fully exotic/asc geared character, and I can still play with my friend who has level 11 and enjoy the game!

Did you ever play GW2 or do I just not get your sarcasm? Even while downscaled a lvl 80 char in extoics is far more powerful then a char at the appropriate level range.
In addition you should read my full statement. If the scaling system would effectively remove the vertical progression from the game why should we have it in the first place?

Ok what exactly did you wrote that my previous post DIDN’T cover?! Because you just repeated everything what I wrote last time! And I can’t argue with that.

For you down scaling players is not enough to have fun playing with someone on lower level and I do! (but what it has to do with ac gear specifically I don’t know) You say that making additional difficulty levels for the same maps is locking content and I don’t! (as long as I have chance to fight Jade Maw and this is all I care about) So we will never agree! EOT

Edit: going father with your philosophy: any game that has character levels has content gates! So this gone out of hand for you!

nachtnebel.9168:

Wait until the whole range of ascended gear is released, then we can talk again.

Exactly… Until then don’t just assume it’s going to be bad!

Think they took some short cuts to finish up stuff. The personal story for example converges all to the same stuff. After you completed around level 25 story it is more or less all the same. For new races like silvari this seems even sooner, thats why I believe they started out with fully branching personal stories and ended up with trahearns personal story.
The gear grind I think he means that you don’t kill the same mobs over and over again. Which means that dungeons must be different all the time, such that you have to do a task to get gear, not kill 1 mob over and over. Still if you do 1 dungeon to earn 1 armor you grind the dungeon and so you also grind the mob.

HiddenNick.7206:

nachtnebel.9168:

Wait until the whole range of ascended gear is released, then we can talk again.

Exactly… Until then don’t just assume it’s going to be bad!

makes sense…
don t do anything about your sickness just wait to be dead….

phys.7689:

lot of misinformation in the replies in this thread.

legendaries still have the same stats as exotics.

Umm…Martin Kerstein said :

Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.

Exotic UP TO Legendary.

You don’t take a flight of steps up to the same floor you are currently on. Legendary will always be on par with “Best in game” gear. They just haven’t finished the Nov update yet.

Tolmos.8395:

“Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”

If that was true they would have added an LFD tool so that we could go out into the world and actually play the game while looking for dungeon groups instead of standing around in LA/other towns for an hour beforehand screaming “LFG LFG LFG” or “LFM LFM LFM”

well considering how quickly and easy it is to get gear it still is fun from moment to moment

HiddenNick.7206:

Ok what exactly did you wrote that my previous post DIDN’T cover?! Because you just repeated everything what I wrote last time! And I can’t argue with that.

For you down scaling players is not enough to have fun playing with someone on lower level and I do! (but what it has to do with ac gear specifically I don’t know) You say that making additional difficulty levels for the same maps is locking content and I don’t! (as long as I have chance to fight Jade Maw and this is all I care about) So we will never agree! EOT

So, let me get this straight: The initial question was “How do you think would vertical stag progression without gated content work?” but you never answered it. All I got was a LOL followed by something absolutely incorrect about the FotM dungeon.
I also made a statement about the fact that stat progression has to go hand in hand with mob progression cause otherwise there would be no challenge which you opposed with something about downscaling in GW2 and you included enjoyment in a hitherto completely objective discussion. I tried to answer that and now you are talking about fun, which never was the topic in the first place.

nachtnebel.9168:

Wait until the whole range of ascended gear is released, then we can talk again.

Exactly… Until then don’t just assume it’s going to be bad!

And once again you took a sentence out of its context to proof nothing. The part you didn’t quote was the important one:
You will see that this gear either will create a gate, that content will be too easy for those that have it or that the progression will be removed due to the scaling system.

We are still on square one cause you never gave me an answer to my question how you could create a game with stat progression that doesn’t require gating to keep the content challenging for all players. My statement still is that it is impossible unless you create a separated area for the progression or you eliminate the progression every time you add new content (which would make having it at all pointless). And once again, this is not about whether content is fun or not.

Edit: going father with your philosophy: any game that has character levels has content gates! So this gone out of hand for you!

The term “content gate” or “gating” is only used for end game content. This discussion never was about leveling.

beren.6048:

Think they took some short cuts to finish up stuff. The personal story for example converges all to the same stuff. After you completed around level 25 story it is more or less all the same. For new races like silvari this seems even sooner, thats why I believe they started out with fully branching personal stories and ended up with trahearns personal story.
The gear grind I think he means that you don’t kill the same mobs over and over again. Which means that dungeons must be different all the time, such that you have to do a task to get gear, not kill 1 mob over and over. Still if you do 1 dungeon to earn 1 armor you grind the dungeon and so you also grind the mob.

The story converages around the same theme true, I mean its all about zaithan but there are many different paths you can go through and only a few mission are the same across all different choices.

This really nice map some one did should clear things up a bit
beware of possible spoilers
http://gw.zweistein.cz/gw2storyline.svg

Galen Grey.4709:

Dont you think you’re taking this too far! If you were free to interpret any advertisement your way you can be sure everyone could point out at any advertisement and say its deceptive!

Advertisement in general is deceptive. They are trying to sell you something. I haven’t seen much or any advertisement that was actually objective and free of ambiguity or exaggerations.
It is my expectation that it is deceptive, but some go further than others.

Galen Grey.4709:

You can even say that gw1 breaks the manifesto if you want just because the manifesto says I can play the game any way I want and I decide to interpret that as say being able to bot and if I do that (LUCKLY ) they ban me!

there you go

Maybe GW1 doesn’t fit the manifesto, but then the manifesto was posted a year ago, a long time after GW1 came out so that comparison doesn’t hold for me.

Galen Grey.4709:

I am sorry but you’re not free to interpret stuff any way you decide ! For you Ascended armor breaks the manifesto fair enough ! for me Ascended armor is entirely optional and has 0 effect on my game so how can it break the manifesto for me? Is my opinion any less valid ?

Yes I am free to interpret as I choose. As are you. This is why some people leave the game and are upset and some stay and are fine.

But consider this. In the AMA they said they knew they would get this big negative reaction. That means they knew a lot of people were under this impression and they did nothing really to clarify this before they introduced the Lost Shores. Although they didn’t actually state there wouldn’t be any powercreep they also happily let people believe there wouldn’t be, even though they knew this perception was out there. Aside from what was or wasn’t said by Anet, I find that by itself less than honest and that is why I am upset about all this.

Galen Grey.4709:

The story converages around the same theme true, I mean its all about zaithan but there are many different paths you can go through and only a few mission are the same across all different choices.

This really nice map some one did should clear things up a bit
beware of possible spoilers
http://gw.zweistein.cz/gw2storyline.svg

The map seems impressive, but I played many stories with friends. It felt pretty much the same. I don’t see the levels in this map and perhaps somethings are like doing the same thing in different ways. I had fun never the less (except when I had to listen to trahearne) and a branching story is new for an MMO (correct me if I m wrong).

Also, what about charm, dignity etc. it doesn’t have any effect on how you are approached or what happens. They made the system, but they didn’t do anything with it. And a person has to defeat the dragon, you can’t choose to be evil, you have to be good.

Gehenna.3625:

snip
Yes I am free to interpret as I choose. As are you. This is why some people leave the game and are upset and some stay and are fine.

But consider this. In the AMA they said they knew they would get this big negative reaction. That means they knew a lot of people were under this impression and they did nothing really to clarify this before they introduced the Lost Shores. Although they didn’t actually state there wouldn’t be any powercreep they also happily let people believe there wouldn’t be, even though they knew this perception was out there. Aside from what was or wasn’t said by Anet, I find that by itself less than honest and that is why I am upset about all this.

That implication doesn’t really work… It would have if it wasn’t for the fact that since before and after launch there was a vocal group giving negative reactions to everything Arenanet said, did and didn’t do.
It’s literally gotten to the point where I am making bets with my friends on what will be the next big non-controversy. We’ve had bugs, bots, precursor weaponry, new content, cash shops and dyes to name the ones off the top of my head.

You are holding the devs in the least charitable interpretation possible of what they do. And from the outside it seems like the only reason for this is that if you don’t… You have nothing to be upset about. Until the next thing comes along to be upset about.
(I am using the you term as a fairly blanket stereotype here, I not directly addressing you Gehenna but the situation as a whole.)

Alice.8694:

Gehenna.3625:

snip
Yes I am free to interpret as I choose. As are you. This is why some people leave the game and are upset and some stay and are fine.

But consider this. In the AMA they said they knew they would get this big negative reaction. That means they knew a lot of people were under this impression and they did nothing really to clarify this before they introduced the Lost Shores. Although they didn’t actually state there wouldn’t be any powercreep they also happily let people believe there wouldn’t be, even though they knew this perception was out there. Aside from what was or wasn’t said by Anet, I find that by itself less than honest and that is why I am upset about all this.

That implication doesn’t really work… It would have if it wasn’t for the fact that since before and after launch there was a vocal group giving negative reactions to everything Arenanet said, did and didn’t do.
It’s literally gotten to the point where I am making bets with my friends on what will be the next big non-controversy. We’ve had bugs, bots, precursor weaponry, new content, cash shops and dyes to name the ones off the top of my head.

You are holding the devs in the least charitable interpretation possible of what they do. And from the outside it seems like the only reason for this is that if you don’t… You have nothing to be upset about. Until the next thing comes along to be upset about.
(I am using the you term as a fairly blanket stereotype here, I not directly addressing you Gehenna but the situation as a whole.)

No worries. It is simply my opinion but it is what I believe.

There is much more that I have an issue with in GW2 however. As I stated earlier in this thread, the manifesto does talk about grind and story line. Those are two elements that are not living up to the manifesto in my view.

Also the voice acting and some key bugs are annoying to me. I mean the list goes on. This whole debacle was just the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. Trust me, I can have a discussion with you about GW2 completely ignoring the manifesto and the bottom line is that even then I can make a list of items I am not happy with in this game, manifesto or not.

cesmode.4257:

Take one stat: 63 power / 68 Power, 0.92 . This means that the exotic is 92% as powerful as the ascended, leaving 8%..The ascended is 8% more powerful.

Compound that, eventually, against every item, if the same statistical difference holds true for everything. You are saying this is not big?

One thing you should keep in mind though, is that a 1% stat increase doesn’t mean you become 1% more powerful.

Take vitality for example. Each point adds 10 health. Say you have 1000 vitality. That means you get 10000 extra health. Adding 1% vitality would mean you get 10100 extra health. That would be 1% more, except your base health isn’t affected. If that’s 10000 as well, it would effectively mean you only get 0.5% extra health. This is similar for other stats (though more complex, and the return is even less).

Gehenna.3625:

Advertisement in general is deceptive. They are trying to sell you something. I haven’t seen much or any advertisement that was actually objective and free of ambiguity or exaggerations.

Yeah, we have a great example of that in our supermarket.

There’s a fruit juice that claims to contain 50% pure fruit and 50% pure water, yet somehow they still managed to add a coloring substance to the mix. So besides it being an all natural product, you’re actually getting more than a full pack for your money’s worth!

Gehenna.3625:

No worries. It is simply my opinion but it is what I believe.

There is much more that I have an issue with in GW2 however. As I stated earlier in this thread, the manifesto does talk about grind and story line. Those are two elements that are not living up to the manifesto in my view.

Also the voice acting and some key bugs are annoying to me. I mean the list goes on. This whole debacle was just the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. Trust me, I can have a discussion with you about GW2 completely ignoring the manifesto and the bottom line is that even then I can make a list of items I am not happy with in this game, manifesto or not.

I don’t doubt it, so can I… But I’ve been in this game (being a gamer and more so an mmorpg gamer) a long time, long enough to know expecting that list to go down significantly in a few months is completely unreasonable.
(And if you think about it, the list has gone down considerably.)

But that isn’t really the issue here is it, the issue isn’t people having reasonable issues with the current game. Most of this latest debarcle was mass hysteria, people taking the worst interpretation of arenanets actions and declaring that the recent changes had ruined or destroyed the game. By implying greater problems would necessarily follow rather than addressing what was actually added during the patch. Many of the actual problems and concerns with the LS patch were actually highlighted and apologised for by Chris during the AMA.

I’ve been meaning to make a joke video of lions arch before and after the patch, sunny sky, crickets chirping. Because the patch didn’t drastically change the game, it merely added some content that needs work. Work they admitted needs working on during the AMA.

All that leaves is the hysteria and the snowball fallacies. People declaring the game has been ruined, way before their own classification of “ruined” has even occurred.

ThiBash.5634:

cesmode.4257:

Take one stat: 63 power / 68 Power, 0.92 . This means that the exotic is 92% as powerful as the ascended, leaving 8%..The ascended is 8% more powerful.

Compound that, eventually, against every item, if the same statistical difference holds true for everything. You are saying this is not big?

One thing you should keep in mind though, is that a 1% stat increase doesn’t mean you become 1% more powerful.

Take vitality for example. Each point adds 10 health. Say you have 1000 vitality. That means you get 10000 extra health. Adding 1% vitality would mean you get 10100 extra health. That would be 1% more, except your base health isn’t affected. If that’s 10000 as well, it would effectively mean you only get 0.5% extra health. This is similar for other stats (though more complex, and the return is even less).

Yep this is true.

On the other hand you could argue that for people who like stat progression this simply may not be enough and there’s the issue of infusion.

Since ascended gear is required to add infusion, this armour will be required for specific content, not just high level fractals but more content in the future as well. As it is unclear and a lot of work to get together it, I think this infusion business will be more significant than the actual stat boost.

The stat boost is in that sense very small and one could wonder why they even bothered because the real difference will be in the infusion. Sadly also there we see stat bonuses. I would like to see the difference in about a year between exotic gear and infused acended gear then.

In the mean time since we don’t know how much of the new content will require infusion, people will logically feel required to get ascended gear cause they don’t want to miss out in the future.

That’s why I expect that by that time it will be easy to get and infuse the armour. And that begs the question, why do it now?

So it seems a waste of time and either way it’s not content for me, which leaves me with the rest of the game which is half deserted because of FotM and was getting stale for me as it was.

Different people, different likes.

Gehenna.3625:

Yep this is true.

On the other hand you could argue that for people who like stat progression this simply may not be enough and there’s the issue of infusion.

Since ascended gear is required to add infusion, this armour will be required for specific content, not just high level fractals but more content in the future as well. As it is unclear and a lot of work to get together it, I think this infusion business will be more significant than the actual stat boost.

The stat boost is in that sense very small and one could wonder why they even bothered because the real difference will be in the infusion. Sadly also there we see stat bonuses. I would like to see the difference in about a year between exotic gear and infused acended gear then.

In the mean time since we don’t know how much of the new content will require infusion, people will logically feel required to get ascended gear cause they don’t want to miss out in the future.

That’s why I expect that by that time it will be easy to get and infuse the armour. And that begs the question, why do it now?

So it seems a waste of time and either way it’s not content for me, which leaves me with the rest of the game which is half deserted because of FotM and was getting stale for me as it was.

Different people, different likes.

I know a couple of groups who hit level 20 in fractals with 0 agony resistance. So within the current content… That means agony resistance is a “Make things easier” stat. Basically it’s a luxury stat… As design goes, that’s a really good concept. I hope they can consistently encourage it within future content.

nachtnebel.9168:

something absolutely incorrect about the FotM dungeon.

Where exactly I’m incorrect?

Wait until the whole range of ascended gear is released, then we can talk again.

Exactly… Until then don’t just assume it’s going to be bad!

And once again you took a sentence out of its context to proof nothing. The part you didn’t quote was the important one:
You will see that this gear either will create a gate, that content will be too easy for those that have it or that the progression will be removed due to the scaling system.

How is that more important then the fact that ascended gear is not there yet and you have no idea how it’s going to work?

Narkosys.5173:

A 10% increase is a 10% increase as whiteside said. That advantage in WvW is the diff between a win and a loss.

To say Gw2 is less of a grind is a lie.This game shouldnt have been called guild wars 2 because it is nothing like gw1 and is incredibly disingenuous to do so.It has been shown time and time again that appealing to the 1% uber grinders is a death nail because you cant control the power creep and everyone else is left behind and they leave.
Right now the game has no direction and cant tell if it is a horizontal or vertical progression.They do nothing well and the game is suffering. Pick a direction and do it well. Just note that all Vert Prog has failed to beat wow and only a few have remained popular and provided a decent return.

Anet have to around Feb to get things in order before some things hit the net and really take the player base away. I hope they can get it together by then.

I am afraid you’re being too absolute on this ! If this was a purely gear based game with 1 on 1 battles then you’d be right 10% advantage would mean a win or loss but WvW isnt any of that! For starters gear is only part of the equation, skills is a much more important element! I only have the chest and trousers that are exotic the rest is rare, the jump in stats is 13% between rare to exotic unlikely exotic to ascended where the jump is 9% yet every month I worked towards my monthly achievement and every time died less then 10 times to get my 50 kills.

Like Arenanet have said from day 1 there are just too many variables in WvW you cant claim a 10% better stats are going to give you victory !

Not only that by WvW is about 2 week battles, individual deaths are meaningless! You could have an amazing kill to death ratio and still be loosing badly if your enemies control more of the map!

I also dont understand why people keep bringing Power Creep up, I dont see how that has any effect what so ever in Gw2 thanks to its scaling system! they could introduce a 100 new tiers and still the starter zone would be relevant content! there is absolutely no power creep here !

As for the games direction, like the manifesto says, its play it how you want to play it ! To me Arenanet managed to create a themepark then can be played like a sandbox!

Its up to you how you play it. If you want to play it 100% as a horizontal progression game you can no problem! I know cause thats what I do !

beren.6048:

Galen Grey.4709:

The story converages around the same theme true, I mean its all about zaithan but there are many different paths you can go through and only a few mission are the same across all different choices.

This really nice map some one did should clear things up a bit
beware of possible spoilers
http://gw.zweistein.cz/gw2storyline.svg

The map seems impressive, but I played many stories with friends. It felt pretty much the same. I don’t see the levels in this map and perhaps somethings are like doing the same thing in different ways. I had fun never the less (except when I had to listen to trahearne) and a branching story is new for an MMO (correct me if I m wrong).

Also, what about charm, dignity etc. it doesn’t have any effect on how you are approached or what happens. They made the system, but they didn’t do anything with it. And a person has to defeat the dragon, you can’t choose to be evil, you have to be good.

Well at the core its one storyline so the branching is kinda superficial. At all times you’re working towards killing zaithan the branching is more in terms of who you’ll allying yourself with which in turns affects what missions you’re doing using what approach but the general direction is obviously the same! However it still gives you variety if you play alts ! If on one character you decide to help out the quagen and on another you decide to help out the hylek one can claim its essnetially the same thing story wise but in practice you’re playing a completely different mission which has a completely different subplot if you will. Its not perfect but it does break the feeling of repetion imho.

As far as I know Personality traits such as Charm, dignity and ferocity just open different dialog options to you when talking to some NPCs. My main is geared nearly exclusively towards dignity and I talk to a lot of NPCs and many times I get dialog options that are marked with the dignity icon and that alone. I always thought thats because I have a lot of dignity and nearly nothing else so I just get the dignity dialog option. I always assumed if I had say mostly charm then I would get a reply thats aligned with that!

But yeah as far as I can tell its more of a roleplaying mechanic so to speak didnt really notice any effect beyond what dialog choices you get!

You’re right it could be made better by having consequences associated with it! though I cannot exclude that this might be in already because like I said I just have dignity. Must try an alt with a different personality and see if things change !

Alice.8694:

I know a couple of groups who hit level 20 in fractals with 0 agony resistance. So within the current content… That means agony resistance is a “Make things easier” stat. Basically it’s a luxury stat… As design goes, that’s a really good concept. I hope they can consistently encourage it within future content.

I heard the same. I also heard that after that you get one shotted without it and that by then because of the RNG approach a lot of people don’t have the items yet so they get stuck at that point.

Still, my point remains that Anet already said they want to expand on this and that more future content will require this.

Aside from whether you like it or not, it does introduce content gating. You must have this gear or you cannot play. That creates issues if the gear that can be infused takes a long time to get together and to infuse, because more casual players will always be behind on gear, not being able to play certain new content when it comes out.

Gehenna.3625:

Aside from whether you like it or not, it does introduce content gating.

What exact content is ascended gear gating right now?

Difficulty level is content to you?!

The Real Manifesto couldn’t actually be published because all it consisted of was ’Can’t make everyone happy’ scrawled on a cigarette packet in ketchup.

Gehenna.3625:

Alice.8694:

I know a couple of groups who hit level 20 in fractals with 0 agony resistance. So within the current content… That means agony resistance is a “Make things easier” stat. Basically it’s a luxury stat… As design goes, that’s a really good concept. I hope they can consistently encourage it within future content.

I heard the same. I also heard that after that you get one shotted without it and that by then because of the RNG approach a lot of people don’t have the items yet so they get stuck at that point.

Still, my point remains that Anet already said they want to expand on this and that more future content will require this.

Aside from whether you like it or not, it does introduce content gating. You must have this gear or you cannot play. That creates issues if the gear that can be infused takes a long time to get together and to infuse, because more casual players will always be behind on gear, not being able to play certain new content when it comes out.

That future content however is likely to be new fractals added to that same dungeon! Of course nothing is stopping them from employing agony in the open world but I think it would be a very bad idea and kinda hard to implement too because you cant just exclude people who dont have agony resistance in the open world.

Gating a level is not the same as gating content ! You can still play all of the fractal content all of it without any ascended gear! you’re just limited on how high of a difficulty you can get!

Essentially its not stopping you experiancing the content only how much you can get rewarded for it without investing time into getting the gear that will allow you get a better return.

To me this is no different then hard mode in Gw1. In hard mode the gw1 got well harder and without investing time in getting good build for your and your heroes which in general might have meant hunting for specific skills, you might not be able to complete hardmode and be limited on how much reward you got out of it! but being unable to handle hardmode itself didnt gate you from content, you could still play all the map and enjoy it but on a diminished reward so to speak.

This is the same thing only with multiple levels rather then just 1

Galen Grey.4709:

Gating a level is not the same as gating content ! You can still play all of the fractal content all of it without any ascended gear! you’re just limited on how high of a difficulty you can get!

+1

This is why everything is fine by me