Guild Wars 2

You know we are not asking for much, just that Anet does not teat us like new players that did not support them these last few years, buy gems, spread the word. A $10 price break and a character slot wold have set them up as Heroes.

I find it odd that Anet is very quiet about this. My guess is that they are riding it out with no intention to do anything. They just want our money. They do not care.
Old Guild Wars cared, and showed it.

The day after the uproar all that had to do was say, “You know guys are right. We were so busy with the new expansion things just slipped under the carpet but we appreciate you guys and are going to fix it.” That would have been a Hero Moment.

Bugs Life Quote:
Ants don’t serve grasshoppers! It’s you who need us!

Might be some difficulty in adding perks to a package after it’s already available for purchase.

That and them trying to be nice to people who otherwise had not even set foot into GW2 apparently backfired. Them favoring players that had not made it very far into, or at all into the game is not a new behavior. The NPE and 10 dollar sales attest to this.

They’re either quiet (Deliberating) or quiet (Cant believe the rage).

What if they disagree? What if they care about players but still think they priced the game like any other expansion.

I’m not saying ANet did a great job of pricing or marketing (I don’t think they did). I am saying that reasonable people can disagree about what is fair.

Plus, even if everyone at ANet agreed with you that they should discount the price by US$10 for veterans (or add something worth about that much to the basic tier), they couldn’t possibly announce it immediately, let alone make it happen instantly. At the very least, they have to consult with their providers for how to make it happen, get sign off from NCSOFT (whose shareholders would be expecting the original pricing scheme), and hire enough Customer Service personnel to handle all the requests that might come in as a result.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I’m not saying ANet did a great job of pricing or marketing (I don’t think they did). I am saying that reasonable people can disagree about what is fair.

That is so true.
But there is an old saying that “The customer is always right.”

This board has gone viral. Which should at least give them pause for thought. Since so many people disagree, the right marking move might be to toss the players a bone.
All the bad press can not he;p new players want to play.

Though my real point is Anet’s silence on this topic. For some reason they will not explain their side. Hence many players view it as a move to just ride it out. It looks like they do not care about us loyal players.

Illconcieved brings up amazing points. It’s not just developers saying “oh we messed up, price change”. At the end of the day, they have to appease those who are responsible for funding of the game. Yes our purchases go arenanet, but they don’t just stop there. They have to pay expenses (payroll, bills, server hosting) and then ncsoft and investors get their return. It’s not like arenanet is just sitting on a cesspool of money. And, if like any other business, they have a lot less control of the financial aspect than you think.

2 week minimum for any action.

they are not a single person. they are not a hive mind. they need to knock heads together.

if you arent happy, wait till a couple of the open betas are over and see if they have anything to say at that point. or what the community has to say. or both.

Then who ever had the final say should fix it. Period.
This is not just about money. I have spent maybe $1000 in gems though the years.
This pricing makes it look like Anet just wants our money and cares little about its base.
Ten dollar price break and a character slot would have made everyone happy. #GREED

I bought a car a long ago. When I needed an new car I went back to my dealer and he have me a deal that was better than others would have. You know what? When I get my next car he did it again. Guess were I am going to go for my kids car?

A price break would have been a slam dunk. I would have bought opening day. Treating me like a new player is no different than how other game companies look at me. That opens the door to change.

It’s a big company. These things take a bit of time. A few days isn’t much from their perspective.
Gaile did respond in the forums though.

Angelica Dream.7103:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I’m not saying ANet did a great job of pricing or marketing (I don’t think they did). I am saying that reasonable people can disagree about what is fair.

That is so true.
But there is an old saying that “The customer is always right.”

This board has gone viral. Which should at least give them pause for thought. Since so many people disagree, the right marking move might be to toss the players a bone.
All the bad press can not he;p new players want to play.

Though my real point is Anet’s silence on this topic. For some reason they will not explain their side. Hence many players view it as a move to just ride it out. It looks like they do not care about us loyal players.

That old saying has always been wrong. Sometimes, often, even usually, the customer is right (asuming he is being reasonable).

Angelica Dream.7103:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I’m not saying ANet did a great job of pricing or marketing (I don’t think they did). I am saying that reasonable people can disagree about what is fair.

That is so true.
But there is an old saying that “The customer is always right.”

This board has gone viral. Which should at least give them pause for thought. Since so many people disagree, the right marking move might be to toss the players a bone.
All the bad press can not he;p new players want to play.

Though my real point is Anet’s silence on this topic. For some reason they will not explain their side. Hence many players view it as a move to just ride it out. It looks like they do not care about us loyal players.

The customer isn’t always right though. I’ve been in business for a long long time, and sometimes, the customer is wrong.

But in this case, the customer doesn’t actually agree.

I think, for example, including the core game for free is good strategy and best for the game. I also think that people should get a character slot for their $50. But I don’t believe that the expansion is too expensive.

You don’t have one group of people here. You have the character slot crowd, the free game crowd, the it’s too expensive anyway crowd. You have people that are fine with it.

You also have accountants and a balance sheet with predictions on what you need to sell it for. And investors, in their own way are customers too. They have to be answered to.

You say Anet hasn’t said anything. Big companies don’t say things fast, because big companies aren’t run by a single person. This thing happened while Anet was still recovering from E3, not on a normal work week. People are out of place. It caught them off guard. They have one of the biggest updates of the year coming out on Tuesday and none of that stops.

So you say, because the customer is always right, they need to drop everything, make a snap decision, and say something. What if by speaking too fast they say the wrong thing? What if what they say appeases player A and kittenes off player B. What if they added a character slot to the base version and now the people who preordered at $75 are kittened off. Aren’t they customers too?

The real answer is that Anet DID say something. Gaile is collecting reactions, they are being forwarded to relevant people. That’s saying something. It’s not ignoring things.

What you want is an answer. The answer is sometimes things in business take time.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Might be some difficulty in adding perks to a package after it’s already available for purchase.

That and them trying to be nice to people who otherwise had not even set foot into GW2 apparently backfired. Them favoring players that had not made it very far into, or at all into the game is not a new behavior. The NPE and 10 dollar sales attest to this.

They’re either quiet (Deliberating) or quiet (Cant believe the rage).

Most likely the “Can’t believe the rage” quietness one. imo they probably don’t want to do anything stupid because if they change it now, people who already bought it are going to rage then.

I can only refer back to Archeage on this since they probably don’t want to make that mistake…

Archeage’s 1st pre-order package came out, and then their pre-order package changed near the launch of the game which had better stuff. Which basically made a ton of people who bought the higher tiers already kittened off because the new packages had better benefits/items than the previous ones and wanted compensation for it.

Thus the compensation debacle happened, when people who got compensation packages for players who started the game using the early pre-orders were finally relieved, but then newer players who started with the earlier pre-order package PLUS during launch players were enraged because the items were so much better than what you would buy in a cash shop so the rage went on.

The silence is taking a long time. I think there’s only one way to go. I would expect to see a message like this very soon:

“Greetings fellow inhabitants of Tyria,

Earlier this week we opened pre-orders for our exciting new expansion, Heart of Thorns. We are really excited about this expansion – not only does it have the new Elite classes, only a few of which have been fully revealed so far, but it also introduces a whole new world for you to explore. We have many more teasers and spoilers planned over the next few weeks that will let you share our excitement about the expansion.

That said, we here at Anet have been aware of the voice of the community on the pricing or content of the expansion packs we’ve offered. We feel that the prices we listed are appropriate for the content we are releasing, and certainly comparable to the other releases we and other gaming companies are producing these days. We have a fantastic user base, and many of you have been as hyped as us for the expansion. Some of you have been with us from the original Guild Wars, including even some of our beta testers of that game. You veterans form the core of our userbase, and are are often the most vocal supporters for us. Or, in this case, vocal in your discontent. We do want to have you continue your journey with us through Tyria, after all, we have dragons and lore you haven’t even seen yet (are you there, “Bubbles”?).

After a great deal of internal conversation, we’re making the following change to all expansion packs: All packs will now include 800 gems, which is the current cost of a character slot in the game. Are you one of our players who has a maxed character in every slot? You can use these gems to buy yourself a new spot to roll that exciting new Revenant. Are you a newer player and still have open slots? Use these in our Gem Store to buy many quality of life and appearance items – we’re sure you’ll find something you’ll like! For our user base who want to buy the Ultimate Edition, you’ll now get these gems in addition to the ones you already are receiving as part of the package. We expect you to be the snappiest dressed Revenants in Maguuma!

Once again, thank you for your passion around our world. We are on a shared journey and look forward to you joining us in the newest chapter, Heart of Thorns!"

.As to any silence on the issue:

Before any decision on whether or not to make any changes they will have to have meetings with the money guy, the suite, etc. They will also have to spend some time taking the measure of the reaction. If they decide to make any changes they will need to decide what the changes will be.

This all takes time.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

=

That and them trying to be nice to people who otherwise had not even set foot into GW2 apparently backfired. Them favoring players that had not made it very far into, or at all into the game is not a new behavior. The NPE and 10 dollar sales attest to this.

And this is where it all falls apart. Their number #1 priority should be keeping their current playerbase and then attracting new customers. We grumbled for a while but we put up with the trait changes, as bad as those were for altoholics to repeat, the gating of skills on the bar and the broken compass to ‘facilitate’ gameplay. But I don’t think grumbling and acceptance it’s what’s happening this time. I’ve already seen people out the door. Hell if it wasn’t for friends who are in the ’we’ll just play all we have before, we don’t need HoT to enjoy it’ boat, I’d be out the door by now too. Plus word of mouth from current players gets them more publicity than they realize. Everyone has friends and families they wanna play with, but few would even consider recommending it now. All the rep they get atm is a very bad one , that’s also bound to hinder a lot of the potential newcomers they were banking on selling these bundles to.

They might be silent because the kind of change we want would take time, effort and a lot of details to considerate – even if they have already decided to give in and change the pricing/add character slot.

After all, a lot of people have already pre-purchased. They’d have to figure out how to return the money to those accounts, flag them on their database to add a character slot, all things that need to be planned, tested, retested before they’re executed.

Not to mention profit projections that need to be recalculated with a price change, reports to be re-written… and you forget that ANet are developers, coders, creatives – money related issues are probably NCSoft’s decision. As far as we know, ANet might have had the same reaction as we did when they heard the marketing/pricing plan, but had to suck it up and obey.

TL;DR It’s complicated. We know nothing. Let’s wait.

evadrepus.1280:

The silence is taking a long time. I think there’s only one way to go. I would expect to see a message like this very soon:

“Greetings fellow inhabitants of Tyria,

Earlier this week we opened pre-orders for our exciting new expansion, Heart of Thorns. We are really excited about this expansion – not only does it have the new Elite classes, only a few of which have been fully revealed so far, but it also introduces a whole new world for you to explore. We have many more teasers and spoilers planned over the next few weeks that will let you share our excitement about the expansion.

That said, we here at Anet have been aware of the voice of the community on the pricing or content of the expansion packs we’ve offered. We feel that the prices we listed are appropriate for the content we are releasing, and certainly comparable to the other releases we and other gaming companies are producing these days. We have a fantastic user base, and many of you have been as hyped as us for the expansion. Some of you have been with us from the original Guild Wars, including even some of our beta testers of that game. You veterans form the core of our userbase, and are are often the most vocal supporters for us. Or, in this case, vocal in your discontent. We do want to have you continue your journey with us through Tyria, after all, we have dragons and lore you haven’t even seen yet (are you there, “Bubbles”?).

After a great deal of internal conversation, we’re making the following change to all expansion packs: All packs will now include 800 gems, which is the current cost of a character slot in the game. Are you one of our players who has a maxed character in every slot? You can use these gems to buy yourself a new spot to roll that exciting new Revenant. Are you a newer player and still have open slots? Use these in our Gem Store to buy many quality of life and appearance items – we’re sure you’ll find something you’ll like! For our user base who want to buy the Ultimate Edition, you’ll now get these gems in addition to the ones you already are receiving as part of the package. We expect you to be the snappiest dressed Revenants in Maguuma!

Once again, thank you for your passion around our world. We are on a shared journey and look forward to you joining us in the newest chapter, Heart of Thorns!"

…Can ANet hire you? Seriously, that is the most balanced, mature response I think I’ll ever see to this incident.

Here is a common sense, don’t talk with raging internet mobs. Anet just waiting the rage to dive down.

Is it really the developper’s choice? I thought the commercial part was NCsoft.

Rauderi.8706:

evadrepus.1280:

The silence is taking a long time. I think there’s only one way to go. I would expect to see a message like this very soon:

“Greetings fellow inhabitants of Tyria,

Earlier this week we opened pre-orders for our exciting new expansion, Heart of Thorns. We are really excited about this expansion – not only does it have the new Elite classes, only a few of which have been fully revealed so far, but it also introduces a whole new world for you to explore. We have many more teasers and spoilers planned over the next few weeks that will let you share our excitement about the expansion.

That said, we here at Anet have been aware of the voice of the community on the pricing or content of the expansion packs we’ve offered. We feel that the prices we listed are appropriate for the content we are releasing, and certainly comparable to the other releases we and other gaming companies are producing these days. We have a fantastic user base, and many of you have been as hyped as us for the expansion. Some of you have been with us from the original Guild Wars, including even some of our beta testers of that game. You veterans form the core of our userbase, and are are often the most vocal supporters for us. Or, in this case, vocal in your discontent. We do want to have you continue your journey with us through Tyria, after all, we have dragons and lore you haven’t even seen yet (are you there, “Bubbles”?).

After a great deal of internal conversation, we’re making the following change to all expansion packs: All packs will now include 800 gems, which is the current cost of a character slot in the game. Are you one of our players who has a maxed character in every slot? You can use these gems to buy yourself a new spot to roll that exciting new Revenant. Are you a newer player and still have open slots? Use these in our Gem Store to buy many quality of life and appearance items – we’re sure you’ll find something you’ll like! For our user base who want to buy the Ultimate Edition, you’ll now get these gems in addition to the ones you already are receiving as part of the package. We expect you to be the snappiest dressed Revenants in Maguuma!

Once again, thank you for your passion around our world. We are on a shared journey and look forward to you joining us in the newest chapter, Heart of Thorns!"

…Can ANet hire you? Seriously, that is the most balanced, mature response I think I’ll ever see to this incident.

+100.

Rauderi.8706:

…Can ANet hire you? Seriously, that is the most balanced, mature response I think I’ll ever see to this incident.

I’m enjoying the game currently, I’ll work cheap! I’d love some mini llamas…

In seriousness, I think this is a decent game, and that the price point was driven by what I always call the suits. When they see a dip, a good suit will then come in allow the folks we talk to make the change. Based on the majority of dev posts I’ve seen, they care pretty heavily for the user base.

evadrepus.1280:

The silence is taking a long time. I think there’s only one way to go. I would expect to see a message like this very soon:

Only that wouldn’t fix the problem: two different groups of people paying the same price, for the same product, during the same time period, and one group receiving more than the other

neither the price, nor the slot is an issue here

evadrepus.1280:

Rauderi.8706:

…Can ANet hire you? Seriously, that is the most balanced, mature response I think I’ll ever see to this incident.

I’m enjoying the game currently, I’ll work cheap! I’d love some mini llamas…

In seriousness, I think this is a decent game, and that the price point was driven by what I always call the suits. When they see a dip, a good suit will then come in allow the folks we talk to make the change. Based on the majority of dev posts I’ve seen, they care pretty heavily for the user base.

A marketing agent that works for minis. If I were running an MMO, you’d be hired. =P

Meanwhile, sigh. I wish I could have more faith in ANet’s top-end decisions (see other post about changeable Ascended gear, much excite), but a lot of us are weary. After Traits 2.0, NPE, Trading Post gold buying (still not 100% fixed), and now this, we see a lot of mis-steps that should have been thought out more.

But I also believe they’re trying. They have to reconcile “heart in the right place” with “keep the lights on.” (Because heart in the right place says BL Keys should not be $1.50 for digital gambling.) And I get that, so I’ll remain cautiously optimistic.

KGS.9842:

neither the price, nor the slot is an issue here

Perhaps for you. The price is the only issue for me. It doesn’t seem to match the value of what I’ve seen so far of HoT. Then again, it’s possible the extent of new content has yet to be revealed.

Others are mostly concerned about the lack of a new slot to make a Revenant, which means they’ll actually pay $10 more than everyone else.

I know I’m in the minority, but I’ve seen at least as many people primarily concerned with the character slot as there are who are concerned newbies are getting the base game while veterans don’t.

First, I am saying hi to guildies in this thread, and thanking them for being voices of reason on this forum. Second, I want to echo the sentiment of a lot of this mess could have been avoided by including a character slot for the new profession with the standard edition, a precedent Anet itself set with each new game they released that included new professions, 2 slots in fact, 1 for each profession each time.

It boggles the mind after all the situations going on (traits, NPE, SAB, etc.) that they would move forward with the no character slot method, when they knew it would cause an uproar because of that precedent.

That’s what stinks to me. I will most likely end up buying HoT, but I am on the wait and see approach at the moment to see how things go from here forward.

At the very least they will have to talk to NCSoft before making any marketing changes. I don’t think Anet has as much of a say in marketing decisions as people think. From what I have heard of NCSoft, they sound rather ruthless.

So, it would have to go through two companies, one out for money only. That would take more time than going through Anet alone.

Any changes, or lack of changes, will have the potential to affect tens of millions of dollars of revenue.

A company completely dependent on that revenue doesn’t rush that.

KGS.9842:

Only that wouldn’t fix the problem: two different groups of people paying the same price, for the same product, during the same time period, and one group receiving more than the other

neither the price, nor the slot is an issue here

Just so it’s clear, what are users getting that others are not? With my proposed solution (which is simply a different way to the same solution everyone else has proposed) they’re essentially saying “Ok, it’s a $40 expansion, plus $10 for a char slot”.

If you’re saying some people are getting a game+expansion while existing players are getting just the expansion, well, there’s where the gems are a consolidation for you for time and let you buy something. Every MMO I’ve played in 15 years has included the base in in the expansion after a very short period of time after that expansion launched. It became the new base. In that case, perhaps you should be furious at me, a person who paid a mere $9.99 for the game, if you’re a person who bought it at release. That’s just standard economics though – price drops on products as it ages, or to keep price points identical you have to offer more on an aged product unless scarcity keeps it artificially high.

It’s probably NCSoft that decides, not Anet.

Dude, they’re busy with E3 and probably don’t have time to deal with this kittenstorm until they get back. :P

evadrepus.1280:

The silence is taking a long time. I think there’s only one way to go. I would expect to see a message like this very soon:

“Greetings fellow inhabitants of Tyria,

Earlier this week we opened pre-orders for our exciting new expansion, Heart of Thorns. We are really excited about this expansion – not only does it have the new Elite classes, only a few of which have been fully revealed so far, but it also introduces a whole new world for you to explore. We have many more teasers and spoilers planned over the next few weeks that will let you share our excitement about the expansion.

That said, we here at Anet have been aware of the voice of the community on the pricing or content of the expansion packs we’ve offered. We feel that the prices we listed are appropriate for the content we are releasing, and certainly comparable to the other releases we and other gaming companies are producing these days. We have a fantastic user base, and many of you have been as hyped as us for the expansion. Some of you have been with us from the original Guild Wars, including even some of our beta testers of that game. You veterans form the core of our userbase, and are are often the most vocal supporters for us. Or, in this case, vocal in your discontent. We do want to have you continue your journey with us through Tyria, after all, we have dragons and lore you haven’t even seen yet (are you there, “Bubbles”?).

After a great deal of internal conversation, we’re making the following change to all expansion packs: All packs will now include 800 gems, which is the current cost of a character slot in the game. Are you one of our players who has a maxed character in every slot? You can use these gems to buy yourself a new spot to roll that exciting new Revenant. Are you a newer player and still have open slots? Use these in our Gem Store to buy many quality of life and appearance items – we’re sure you’ll find something you’ll like! For our user base who want to buy the Ultimate Edition, you’ll now get these gems in addition to the ones you already are receiving as part of the package. We expect you to be the snappiest dressed Revenants in Maguuma!

Once again, thank you for your passion around our world. We are on a shared journey and look forward to you joining us in the newest chapter, Heart of Thorns!"

This addresses the content amount, plus the price, plus the lack of a char slot on the basic edition. I would also suggest going out more than 30 days for refunds to those who bought the game prior to knowing that it would be included in the HoT Release. maybe make it 60 days?

In the hope that, as they always claim, what we see is just a small part of what is coming…I would say this type of letter and compensation would alleviate the issues of maybe 85-90% of the people who are upset. You will never appease everyone.

Nice suggestion and I hope this gets some attention when it is shared with the teams.

First: If its a price decision they will need to talk a lot and ponderate things, plus they need to inform/ discuss with their parent company.

Second: They can assume fairly a group of customers dont agree with the price because they dont have enough information about the expansion (so many people claming it cant be called a expansion without knowing the extend of the content- can ve inversed if its litle content).

Third: If they go down too much, it can made a dangerous precedent.

Forth: if their decision dont go well with at least a group of the customers, better to engage them when things are colder than hotter. Plus how the decision will be token will change in a % of the player base depending on how hot or cold things are.

The order im putting it has to do with the decision making for any announcement (if there its one, you can have a robability of the: too clarify tha base game its a gift; been the only necesary announcement they considerate apropiated).

Character slot or 800-1000 gems at the Basic price point would likely have prevented most of this assuming it was given when account code is added to existing account, while new accounts get the standard 5 character slots + bank slot.

There is still the problem of the FAQ change (core game required for expansion vs. core game included with expansion).
That problem is exacerbated by the refund offered which includes a termination of your account and non-refund of gem purchases according to threads / screen shots on Reddit.

Then there’s also the issue of the purchase page stating: “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)”
No mention here (https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ) that this does not include a new copy of core for a returning customer.
No mention here (https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ) that this does not include a new copy of core for a returning customer.
The fact that this does not include core for returning customer only seems to be on the forum / stated in service ticket responses where people asked for their new second account.
From a legal contract perspective I would change this: “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” to "Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game for new accounts created with this purchase) [emphasis added] ASAP. Under contract ArenaNet is offering Core + Expansion to every purchaser and only delivering Expansion to existing users. This opens them up to a class action law suit in the US, probably in Europe too considering the consumer protections.

And because of all the controversies around this pre-purchase pricing in addition to the $50 price tag and the resulting malcontent from a large section of the community they have now vastly increased the level of scrutiny people are giving to the expansion in terms of content and perceived value.
Essentially this snafu and lack of character slot or 800-1000 gems at the Basic price point for existing players / inclusion of core for new players has brought this all to light in the worse way possible and has likely cost untold thousands of dollars in pre-purchases and who knows how much in ultimate sales (both to returning and new customers).

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bigger marketing snafu on an expansion.

Understand all partners (toy stores/ e-stores, game stores and so on) bought this game for 50 euro’s as well… They are being shipped to stores…

They cannot change deals just like this. It would create a breach of trust with their sale parteners in the RL world. They’ll need them for quite a while…

Oh and I still do not mind a core game , can allways use the extra laurels but I’ll keep my present game.

“This opens them up to a class action law suit in the US, probably in Europe too considering the consumer protections.”

You clearly have no clue whatsoever about the law. Gee, angry redditors thinking that ruleslawyering actually works IRL is downright adorable.

“I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bigger marketing snafu on an expansion.”

Why? it’s a storm in a teacup. I see so many prepurchase titles ingame that it’s obvious: The main audience doesn’t give a kitten about the few crybabies that can’t handle that an old game is free in a bundle.

But hey, make your lawsuit, angry redditors. Go ahead. It’s your right to be heard by the law, even if you’re making a fool out of yourself.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Understand all partners (toy stores/ e-stores, game stores and so on) bought this game for 50 euro’s as well… They are being shipped to stores…

They cannot change deals just like this. It would create a breach of trust with their sale parteners in the RL world. They’ll need them for quite a while…

Oh and I still do not mind a core game , can allways use the extra laurels but I’ll keep my present game.

Stores don’t usually pay full retail for a product they intend to resell. Perhaps computer games are different than the industries in which I have worked but 25-50% of retail were common prices paid by stores.

Mooncaller.9634:

Under contract ArenaNet is offering Core + Expansion to every purchaser and only delivering Expansion to existing users.

Actually existing users can get exactly the same thing offered to first time buyers. Both get a new account with both core content and HoT included. The existing user, of course, has the option to forgo, at their discretion, the new account in favor of linking to an existing account.

I wouldn’t expect many existing users to choose not to link accounts, but the option to have exactly the same as the first time buyer is there.

The real emphasis is a lot of us will not pay $50 for the core game, and the expansion, when we already own the core game. So it all comes down to what Anet is going to do.

Ashen.2907:

Mooncaller.9634:

Under contract ArenaNet is offering Core + Expansion to every purchaser and only delivering Expansion to existing users.

Actually existing users can get exactly the same thing offered to first time buyers. Both get a new account with both core content and HoT included. The existing user, of course, has the option to forgo, at their discretion, the new account in favor of linking to an existing account.

I wouldn’t expect many existing users to choose not to link accounts, but the option to have exactly the same as the first time buyer is there.

Good point.

Although, to be fair to some of those criticizing the pricing, this still means that veterans aren’t offered anything for their years of loyalty. (Well, ‘nothing’ aside from a great game that has given them hundreds or thousands of hours of entertainment, which is probably how NCSOFT and most other game publishers would think of it.)

The silence is normal business around these parts. I think that’s another reason players are so irked lately. Well that and the price. Given what little we know about the expansion.

To be honest, they probably won’t say anything. Forums matter very little to this company, as has now been proven a few times… So, the reality here, is they will see what the sales tell them. If everyone who raged about this recent “development” doesn’t pre-order, then i would imagine that might just be a clear enough message to the company that they may need to invest in some new management.

slamfunction.7462:

To be honest, they probably won’t say anything. Forums matter very little to this company, as has now been proven a few times…

This has already went out to the game sites (and at a time when those sites should have been sending out a good word about the presale). They seem to do care about this kind of negative advertising – it was this that made them add the specific currency exchange option, for example.

This is true. Even Wooden Potatoes has criticized this decision and the price. And he’s rather fanatical about Guild Wars.

They just following basic marketing schemes imo like new customers are always cheaper to get and all. If I am correct then they have taken willingness to pay into account and are just targeting new people and those who are ok with paying this much. For the late adopters there should be a decrease in price maybe a month after launch so they can attract those who are only willing to pay 35 eur for it, but I can’t be sure about Anets marketing plan.

Voices on the net mean nothing to businesses with targets to meet. Anet’s, or perhaps NCSoft’s main source of feedback is metrics. We have no way of knowing if the reddit thread’s an echochamber and if the internet response is having an adverse effect on the number of preorders. While it is a big deal and people are incensed, whether the resulting sales drop is severe enough or not will decide what happens in the future.

So do the smart thing. Vote with your wallet, think practical, and distance yourself from the marketing and PR aspect of it. Do you think the xpac is worth your money? If so, buy. If not, don’t. And expect little or nothing to come of your reddit upvotes and forum posts.

Gibson.4036:

KGS.9842:

neither the price, nor the slot is an issue here

Perhaps for you. The price is the only issue for me. It doesn’t seem to match the value of what I’ve seen so far of HoT. Then again, it’s possible the extent of new content has yet to be revealed.

Others are mostly concerned about the lack of a new slot to make a Revenant, which means they’ll actually pay $10 more than everyone else.

I know I’m in the minority, but I’ve seen at least as many people primarily concerned with the character slot as there are who are concerned newbies are getting the base game while veterans don’t.

You’re maybe in the minority of people reacting negatively, but you’re on-board with a very large number of people complaining about the price.

If HoT was the size of the original game. or maybe 3/4 the size, nobody would be complaining. People upset that they’re trying to make release for new players easier/cheaper than what veterans originally paid are just being dumb. That logic implies nothing should ever deprecate in value.

So I guess following that logic we should all spend millions on new phones each upgrade since the technology in them is in all ways superior to what NASA collectively had in the 1960’s.

evadrepus.1280:

The silence is taking a long time. I think there’s only one way to go. I would expect to see a message like this very soon:

“Greetings fellow inhabitants of Tyria,

Earlier this week we opened pre-orders for our exciting new expansion, Heart of Thorns. We are really excited about this expansion – not only does it have the new Elite classes, only a few of which have been fully revealed so far, but it also introduces a whole new world for you to explore. We have many more teasers and spoilers planned over the next few weeks that will let you share our excitement about the expansion.

That said, we here at Anet have been aware of the voice of the community on the pricing or content of the expansion packs we’ve offered. We feel that the prices we listed are appropriate for the content we are releasing, and certainly comparable to the other releases we and other gaming companies are producing these days. We have a fantastic user base, and many of you have been as hyped as us for the expansion. Some of you have been with us from the original Guild Wars, including even some of our beta testers of that game. You veterans form the core of our userbase, and are are often the most vocal supporters for us. Or, in this case, vocal in your discontent. We do want to have you continue your journey with us through Tyria, after all, we have dragons and lore you haven’t even seen yet (are you there, “Bubbles”?).

After a great deal of internal conversation, we’re making the following change to all expansion packs: All packs will now include 800 gems, which is the current cost of a character slot in the game. Are you one of our players who has a maxed character in every slot? You can use these gems to buy yourself a new spot to roll that exciting new Revenant. Are you a newer player and still have open slots? Use these in our Gem Store to buy many quality of life and appearance items – we’re sure you’ll find something you’ll like! For our user base who want to buy the Ultimate Edition, you’ll now get these gems in addition to the ones you already are receiving as part of the package. We expect you to be the snappiest dressed Revenants in Maguuma!

Once again, thank you for your passion around our world. We are on a shared journey and look forward to you joining us in the newest chapter, Heart of Thorns!"

If this is Anet’s response to this situation, I’d not only be happy to pre-purchase now, I’d go ahead and get the Ultimate edition and I know I’m not the only one. I know for some the price of the standard is tad high so the Ultimate is unthinkable for them, but a good-will gesture of 800 gems across the board would at least mean people have equal access to content right out of the HoT “box” and to me that’s the real crux of the matter.

Honestly, I think this kind of gesture would soothe a lot of this anger (though of course not all of it) and get a lot of players back of the hype train again. It would also send a very strong message from Anet: we want new players but we also value our current players and are listening.

anet pls.

I dont know much about HOT or its pricing, but a common mistake that is often made on game forums is that the people posting on the forums think that they speak on behalf of everyone else.
ie I dont like something about the game so therefore everyone must agree with me.
Forums generally only attract people who want to complain about something.
They dont attract people who dont have any problems with the game, so the posts of the forums give a very distorted one sided view of whats really happening.
AFAIK GW2 has around 400K subs, but Ive only counted a couple of thousand negative posts about the pricing of HOT.
People who think positively about the expansion wont post at all, as they have no need too.
The price of any product is determined by the seller .
Its not determined by what some of the potential buyers think it should cost.
If you dont like the price of the expansion then simply dont buy it , like any other product.

Angelica Dream.7103:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I’m not saying ANet did a great job of pricing or marketing (I don’t think they did). I am saying that reasonable people can disagree about what is fair.

That is so true.
But there is an old saying that “The customer is always right.”

And old, dead, and frankly wrong saying. No, the customer isnt always right. Company policies say the customer is always right, no matter how much they act like a kittening tool getting bent out of shape.

Also, www.notalwaysright.com

E3, crazy bugs and glitches all over the game, and being a group they have to brainstorm and committee and other whatnot. I’d give them some time.

Angelica Dream.7103:

Guess were I am going to go for my kids car?

Will you be my mommy?

jesters.9406:

evadrepus.1280:

The silence is taking a long time. I think there’s only one way to go. I would expect to see a message like this very soon:

“Greetings fellow inhabitants of Tyria,

Earlier this week we opened pre-orders for our exciting new expansion, Heart of Thorns. We are really excited about this expansion – not only does it have the new Elite classes, only a few of which have been fully revealed so far, but it also introduces a whole new world for you to explore. We have many more teasers and spoilers planned over the next few weeks that will let you share our excitement about the expansion.

That said, we here at Anet have been aware of the voice of the community on the pricing or content of the expansion packs we’ve offered. We feel that the prices we listed are appropriate for the content we are releasing, and certainly comparable to the other releases we and other gaming companies are producing these days. We have a fantastic user base, and many of you have been as hyped as us for the expansion. Some of you have been with us from the original Guild Wars, including even some of our beta testers of that game. You veterans form the core of our userbase, and are are often the most vocal supporters for us. Or, in this case, vocal in your discontent. We do want to have you continue your journey with us through Tyria, after all, we have dragons and lore you haven’t even seen yet (are you there, “Bubbles”?).

After a great deal of internal conversation, we’re making the following change to all expansion packs: All packs will now include 800 gems, which is the current cost of a character slot in the game. Are you one of our players who has a maxed character in every slot? You can use these gems to buy yourself a new spot to roll that exciting new Revenant. Are you a newer player and still have open slots? Use these in our Gem Store to buy many quality of life and appearance items – we’re sure you’ll find something you’ll like! For our user base who want to buy the Ultimate Edition, you’ll now get these gems in addition to the ones you already are receiving as part of the package. We expect you to be the snappiest dressed Revenants in Maguuma!

Once again, thank you for your passion around our world. We are on a shared journey and look forward to you joining us in the newest chapter, Heart of Thorns!"

If this is Anet’s response to this situation, I’d not only be happy to pre-purchase now, I’d go ahead and get the Ultimate edition and I know I’m not the only one. I know for some the price of the standard is tad high so the Ultimate is unthinkable for them, but a good-will gesture of 800 gems across the board would at least mean people have equal access to content right out of the HoT “box” and to me that’s the real crux of the matter.

Honestly, I think this kind of gesture would soothe a lot of this anger (though of course not all of it) and get a lot of players back of the hype train again. It would also send a very strong message from Anet: we want new players but we also value our current players and are listening.

anet pls.

New feature announcements from Colin (Dragonite ore eater, ascended stat changes) look like they’re being used to quell the riot. So I don’t think pricing will change.