Guild Wars 2

So as can be seen in the numerous threads regarding Balthazar’s regalia and other outfits released previously, there’s a huge divide in the community over releasing armour skins vs releasing outfits.

A simple solution is proposed and seems to me to be the clear and easy way to keep as many people happy as possible: Release these in the gem store as both costumes AND armour skins. I’m sure that not only would it keep a larger portion of the community happy, but it would also be good for gem sales, too.

If there are technical limitations or reasons as to why this solution isn’t viable, it would be great to get detail on this, as many community members are getting frustrated over the lack of armour skin releases in comparison with costume releases of late.

Or better yet, if you buy the outfit you unlock both the outfit and armor skins it’s composed off.

I really don’t see why there’s a difference between these to begin with tbh.
Surely you’d get more sales if you catered to both options, instead of restricting it’s use for seemingly no good reason?

why not both?
i agree with you on this!

everyone happy then
and more profit for anet

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

because we like the outfit designs but feel like it is wasted awesome design if it cant be mixed and matched!

Some people argue there could be clipping, but seriously: Let the players that like to mix and match watch out for clipping themselves! We are very much capable of identifying clipping armor-pieces and choosing a different combination.

There’s already so much clipping in this game that this shouldn’t be a valid argument against an armor-skin-version of the outfits. Everyone who wants to disproove me has to find a single backpack that doesn’t clip with the female light Sylvari T2-Armor.

That being said I fully support having both versions (armor skins and outfit) either as separate sales or as a bundle. Or even buying one unlocks the other aswell (same effect as bundle). I sooo want the head-piece of the shadow-assassin-outfit, but only if I can mix and match it. Until then it’s a no-buy.

I also wouldn’t be opposed to releasing some currently existing armor-sets as outfits. Also can we pls have the Town-clothing as an outfit?

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

I’m not?

What free armour sets are we getting? I’m lost. I don;t know the last time new armour sets with unique designs were added to the game except carapace/lumi, which involves quite a grind to achieve.

New armour sets added to drop rotations on mobs would be awesome (But I expect we’ll see some new armour designs from drops in HoT)

Agreed, I want to be able to mix and match or at the very least, choose my own head piece.

rapthorne.7345:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

I’m not?

Sorry if it came out that way, I didn’t mean to sound like you were whining.

All I’m trying to say is that there are people, like me, that love outfits.

But when they are making BOTH armour sets and outfits, what is the problem then?

Marth Reynolds.8257:

Or better yet, if you buy the outfit you unlock both the outfit and armor skins it’s composed off.

I really don’t see why there’s a difference between these to begin with tbh.
Surely you’d get more sales if you catered to both options, instead of restricting it’s use for seemingly no good reason?

Outfits aren’t composed of armour skins. An outfit is a single full-body skin. Armour skins are broken into pieces along specific lines, which are not the same for every armour weight. It’s a lot, lot easier (and, it seems, more profitable) for Anet to make outfits than a much smaller number of armour skins.

And, in response to the thing about ‘it doesn’t matter if they clip, let everyone work it out for themselves’… people will care. There are so many complaints about the relatively minimal clipping already in game – introducing new items that flagrantly clip to a huge extent is going to cause even more, and worse, it would make Anet look really bad. Like they don’t care about quality at all… which would be true, if they did it.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

rapthorne.7345:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

I’m not?

Sorry if it came out that way, I didn’t mean to sound like you were whining.

All I’m trying to say is that there are people, like me, that love outfits.

But when they are making BOTH armour sets and outfits, what is the problem then?

the problem atm is that they are NOT making these outfits as armorsets too
and thats what we want to change

Olvendred.3027:

Marth Reynolds.8257:

Or better yet, if you buy the outfit you unlock both the outfit and armor skins it’s composed off.

I really don’t see why there’s a difference between these to begin with tbh.
Surely you’d get more sales if you catered to both options, instead of restricting it’s use for seemingly no good reason?

Outfits aren’t composed of armour skins. An outfit is a single full-body skin. Armour skins are broken into pieces along specific lines, which are not the same for every armour weight. It’s a lot, lot easier (and, it seems, more profitable) for Anet to make outfits than a much smaller number of armour skins.

And, in response to the thing about ‘it doesn’t matter if they clip, let everyone work it out for themselves’… people will care. There are so many complaints about the relatively minimal clipping already in game – introducing new items that flagrantly clip to a huge extent is going to cause even more, and worse, it would make Anet look really bad. Like they don’t care about quality at all… which would be true, if they did it.

People are willing to pay more for real armorsets

and some would buy the outfit and the armorset and i think it would definitly be worth it to invest some more work in the already existing skins to separate them into 6 pieces and sell it as armorset again

and ofc people care about clipping
but not being able to mix and match at all is 10000000x worse than having clipping issues but still being able to search for the good combinations

introducing NO new armor to prevent clipping is the worst possible solution seriously…

Orangensaft.7139:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

rapthorne.7345:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

I’m not?

Sorry if it came out that way, I didn’t mean to sound like you were whining.

All I’m trying to say is that there are people, like me, that love outfits.

But when they are making BOTH armour sets and outfits, what is the problem then?

the problem atm is that they are NOT making these outfits as armorsets too
and thats what we want to change

Sorry, but if there is a market for outfits, they will sell it.

I enjoy outfits.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Orangensaft.7139:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

rapthorne.7345:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

I’m not?

Sorry if it came out that way, I didn’t mean to sound like you were whining.

All I’m trying to say is that there are people, like me, that love outfits.

But when they are making BOTH armour sets and outfits, what is the problem then?

the problem atm is that they are NOT making these outfits as armorsets too
and thats what we want to change

Sorry, but if there is a market for outfits, they will sell it.

I enjoy outfits.

yes and thats totally fine

like i said before
i just want BOTH: outfits AND armorset versions of these outfits

nobody wants to get rid of outfits and i can understand why some people like outfits better

but i dont see a reason not to work on these outfits again to turn them into real armorset versions and sell these armorsets on the gemshop again for all the other players who love to mix and match

Olvendred.3027:

Marth Reynolds.8257:

Or better yet, if you buy the outfit you unlock both the outfit and armor skins it’s composed off.

I really don’t see why there’s a difference between these to begin with tbh.
Surely you’d get more sales if you catered to both options, instead of restricting it’s use for seemingly no good reason?

Outfits aren’t composed of armour skins. An outfit is a single full-body skin. Armour skins are broken into pieces along specific lines, which are not the same for every armour weight. It’s a lot, lot easier (and, it seems, more profitable) for Anet to make outfits than a much smaller number of armour skins.

And, in response to the thing about ‘it doesn’t matter if they clip, let everyone work it out for themselves’… people will care. There are so many complaints about the relatively minimal clipping already in game – introducing new items that flagrantly clip to a huge extent is going to cause even more, and worse, it would make Anet look really bad. Like they don’t care about quality at all… which would be true, if they did it.

The only complaints I know are because of Outfits or Armor-Sets that are clipping WITH THEMSELVES. As soon as I start to mix and match, clipping between different pieces is bound to happen since the pieces I’m using were never meant to be used together. So acting as if they actually tried to make every armor piece compatible to every other armor piece is pure hypocrisy. They should just drop the act, cut the outfits to pieces and release the parts separately.

Edit: Also about the “relatively minimal clipping already in game”… Did you have a look at the female light Sylvari T2 and tried to combine it with a backpack? You can’t call that minimal. There is already so much clipping in this game that it makes the argument “we want to avoid clipping” a really bad joke.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the clipping in this game is bad. I only wanted to point out that it is there, and that players already have to consider what pieces to wear in order to avoid clipping. It’s always better to release a skin than not to release it because it could clip with something already existing.

I would pay 4x 700gems if those outfits became armorsets. I don’t want to look like everyone else who has the same outfit. But then outfitfanboys will say: But you can dye 4 different parts of the outfit. Then I’m like mehhh forget it xD

I agree, both would be awesome. I haven’t purchased a single outfit because I cant customize it

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

But then outfitfanboys will say: But you can dye 4 different parts of the outfit. Then I’m like mehhh forget it xD

Outfitfanboy? That’s new.

Yea outfit fanboys xD those who dear to say that outfits are better then armor sets.

They release outfits not because people wanted outfits, but because they won’t be able to test them properly as skins.

Spare skins that can be mixed with other pieces of armor are a lot of work. They haveto be tested against all other pieces. That takes time the modelers could use for more creatures, weapons and outfits.

The main problem is the waist. Different armor weights seam differently. Light and heavy armor have the ‘skirt/coat’ part in the legs, while medium armor has the ‘skirt’ part in the torso. That’s why the male’s light heritage armor has the tail of its coat attached to the legs, and why so many medium armors are coats. And why there’s some cross-class armor sets that are just boots, gloves, helm and shoulders.

On top of that, different armor pieces have the waist at different heights. Which gets you some awkward overlaps and cuts. Like how the female krytan medium armor torso just stops before the waist with an unnaturalyl clean and straight cut.

The wast is annoying to deal with.

I would be happy enough if we at least got separate hat and outfit slots. So we could mix hat, outfit, headgear and body armor:

• Hat+outfit
• Hat + rest of armor
• Headgear + outfit.
• Headgear+ rest of armor.

Hats must come back!

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Yea outfit fanboys xD those who dear to say that outfits are better then armor sets.

both have their advantages and disadvantages, it’s all opinion based

Because they are designed as a single art asset with a single cohesive line, it is not as easy to break up outfits as you are imagining. It’s not like playing with paper dolls. As far as I’m aware, each of the three armor types use a different mesh, and I’m pretty sure outfits use a fourth.

You forgot Glorious armor in your list. That’s at least three they’ve released over the last year- which is approximately the same amount of new (complete) armor skins you used to see in the gem store in a given year.

So, while I agree that it would be nice to have more options, I feel like there’s a reasonable explanation for why this isn’t one, and wouldn’t be worthwhile for ANET to expend the resources on it. I like getting armor skins in game.

I agree, i would of bought this if it was a skin, but as its a outfit i will not throw money at it, i like to mix and match stuff, in this case i like the helmet, but not anything else.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

rapthorne.7345:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

I’m not?

Sorry if it came out that way, I didn’t mean to sound like you were whining.

All I’m trying to say is that there are people, like me, that love outfits.

But when they are making BOTH armour sets and outfits, what is the problem then?

Well, the problem presumably is that people are gazing at a certain part of an outfit and wishing they could either just buy that item, on its own, or that they could buy all of it and only use that item on its own.

Outfits are great for levelling and just great anyway (if you like all the pieces), so they should still exist.

However, if you are past the levelling stage, they are obviously like walking into a store IRL, because you love a pair of boots in the window, only to discover that not only they are only sold as part of a whole outfit (most of which you wouldn’t wear), but that the whole outfit is firmly and irretrievably sewn together!

Yes, there may also be other boots available to wear on their own, but that doesn’t really help someone who has their heart set on a particular pair, which are only available as part of an outfit.

I think the solution is to sell every armour set and outfit as both.

The clipping issue could, presumably, be got around by still selling outfits as outfits primarily, with the option to break them up into pieces, but with the caveat that, as they are primarily outfits, there may be clipping in some cases.

Then people can choose to take the risk, or not and after a while I assume other people will have taken the risk for them and there will be info available online as to which pieces have the worst problems.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

Its not about them “selling” outfits. Its the fact they are outfits at all.
I would gladly buy some of those outfits from the cashshop……if they were armor skins and I could mix/match and toggle some pieces. As it stands, the only reason I have not purchased any outfits is because they are so limited as all or nothing (with head toggle ofc).

Guhracie.3419:

Because they are designed as a single art asset with a single cohesive line, it is not as easy to break up outfits as you are imagining. It’s not like playing with paper dolls. As far as I’m aware, each of the three armor types use a different mesh, and I’m pretty sure outfits use a fourth.

You forgot Glorious armor in your list. That’s at least three they’ve released over the last year- which is approximately the same amount of new (complete) armor skins you used to see in the gem store in a given year.

So, while I agree that it would be nice to have more options, I feel like there’s a reasonable explanation for why this isn’t one, and wouldn’t be worthwhile for ANET to expend the resources on it. I like getting armor skins in game.

Every armor (except of reskins) uses it’s own mesh. The mesh is basically the thing that gives a model it’s form. The onely issue here is that ANet decided to “cut” light, medium and heavy armor at a different heigth at the waist. That way if you tried to combine light and medium armor you’d either run around belly-free or have some ugly clipping at the waist.

I don’t see the problem though, since you can already get some seriously ugly clipping if you choose the right (or wrong depending on perspective) pieces in the current wardrobe.

In my opinion every outfit and armor-set only has to be compatible to itself. As soon as you start mixing sets it’s your own fault if the resulting mix has clipping. Following this policy it would be no problem to release sets that have the seam at a different heigh than other sets. However ANet somehow decided that every combination that is possible also has to be valid and therefore free of clipping (which is pure hypocrisy since they already violated that rule heavily).

MrRuin.9740:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

Its not about them “selling” outfits. Its the fact they are outfits at all.
I would buy some of those outfits from the cashshop……if they were armor skins and I could mix/match and toggle some pieces. As it stands, the only reason I have not purchased any outfits is because they are so limited as all or nothing (with head toggle ofc).

One thing to consider, which makes ANet more money.

The last outfit for sale I saw had large numbers of people wearing it the day it came out. When armor is sold in the gemstore, does it sell at the same volume? It has to sell not only to those that like it but also those who have chars in that weight class and also those who are willing to change out that char’s look to a new one. I strongly suspect that outfits outsell any individual armor set by a large amount. If my guess is true, not only do armors cost more to make but they generate less income. Any business looking at numbers like those is going to go for what sells and since they are making outfits and not armors, that does indicate that’s where the money is.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

MrRuin.9740:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

Its not about them “selling” outfits. Its the fact they are outfits at all.
I would buy some of those outfits from the cashshop……if they were armor skins and I could mix/match and toggle some pieces. As it stands, the only reason I have not purchased any outfits is because they are so limited as all or nothing (with head toggle ofc).

One thing to consider, which makes ANet more money.

The last outfit for sale I saw had large numbers of people wearing it the day it came out. When armor is sold in the gemstore, does it sell at the same volume? It has to sell not only to those that like it but also those who have chars in that weight class and also those who are willing to change out that char’s look to a new one. I strongly suspect that outfits outsell any individual armor set by a large amount. If my guess is true, not only do armors cost more to make but they generate less income. Any business looking at numbers like those is going to go for what sells and since they are making outfits and not armors, that does indicate that’s where the money is.

Any numbers or speculation about profits or costs are just that….guesses. How many outfits are sold with in-game coin-to-gold? How many are actual charges? How many more people would pay for skin versions? It’s all speculation.
I do not speculate based on what I see during my time online as it represents basically nothing in the entire scheme of the whole game. I can only say, for myself, I do not buy outfits with in-game coin or real charges for the lone reason that I do not care for the outfit system of having to wear everything except the headpiece. Whether or not I represent a majority or minority in this, I do not know, and do not claim to as there is no real way to know without half-blind speculation.

MrRuin.9740:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

MrRuin.9740:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

Its not about them “selling” outfits. Its the fact they are outfits at all.
I would buy some of those outfits from the cashshop……if they were armor skins and I could mix/match and toggle some pieces. As it stands, the only reason I have not purchased any outfits is because they are so limited as all or nothing (with head toggle ofc).

One thing to consider, which makes ANet more money.

The last outfit for sale I saw had large numbers of people wearing it the day it came out. When armor is sold in the gemstore, does it sell at the same volume? It has to sell not only to those that like it but also those who have chars in that weight class and also those who are willing to change out that char’s look to a new one. I strongly suspect that outfits outsell any individual armor set by a large amount. If my guess is true, not only do armors cost more to make but they generate less income. Any business looking at numbers like those is going to go for what sells and since they are making outfits and not armors, that does indicate that’s where the money is.

Any numbers or speculation about profits or costs are just that….guesses. How many outfits are sold with in-game coin-to-gold? How many are actual charges? How many more people would pay for skin versions? It’s all speculation.
I do not speculate based on what I see during my time online as it represents basically nothing in the entire scheme of the whole game. I can only say, for myself, I do not buy outfits with in-game coin or real charges for the lone reason that I do not care for the outfit system of having to wear everything except the headpiece. Whether or not I represent a majority or minority in this, I do not know, and do not claim to as there is no real way to know without half-blind speculation.

True, it is speculation. But speculation based on things we see can lead to valid observations.

When I see large numbers of people wearing an outfit the day it comes out but I don’t see large numbers of people wearing a new armor the day it comes out, it looks like outfits sell better than armor. I do see large numbers of people wearing the new, non gemstore armors which indicates people are willing to grind for new armor but not spend real money for them.

When a company that was selling gem store armor stops doing so and starts selling outfits, either they are selling at a loss or they have found that outfits sell better or make them more money than armor.

Speculation based on observation, but it points at outfits being more profitable.

I believe part of why outfits are more ‘popular’ at times is it gives people options that their classes wouldn’t normally be able to appear like. A heavy wearer in a fancy dress in the case of the Noble set and a light in what would appear to be a medium coat. For people, especially the RP community that can be beneficial.

However! Overall, there is still outcry for a higher desire amongst those I speak with and am in contact with for the Armor Skins as opposed to the outfits. Every demographic is going to have different desires. But I do agree with the OP that there needs to be some sort of Shift. The sheer number of outfits being released in comparison to Armor skins is horribly imbalanced. Yes we got the Carapace/lumi set and the Glorious, but lets not forget that in relatively recent times we lost all those old SPvP skins as well. And given that we lost more sets than we gained… well you can see where some people are getting frustrated here. As well, I have a hard time counting the Carapace and Luminescent Skins as two different sets as one is really just a glowy recolour of the other.

I think that what they really need to do is find a way to get us back those old skins they removed and then focus on keeping a balance between the outfits and the armor skins that are being released. I know it is impossible to make everyone happy, but with the sheer amount of outcry over this topic, it is clear there does need to be a shift.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

When I see large numbers of people wearing an outfit the day it comes out but I don’t see large numbers of people wearing a new armor the day it comes out, it looks like outfits sell better than armor. I do see large numbers of people wearing the new, non gemstore armors which indicates people are willing to grind for new armor but not spend real money for them.

I think part of that is that the outfits are free to apply once purchased. I’ve bought most all the armor available in the gem store (not the Toxic or Lawless things, even with some costume completionist tendencies I knew I’d find no use for them) but some of it remains in a bundle in my bank until I find a good way to incorporate it into an alt’s look. Even if I were to accelerate the process, I’d still hesitate to just burn 6 charges to equip the full set. I have to feel it’ll be cool to wear for longer than a day.

But an outfit? Toggle through them all you like, all it costs is time and a bit of dye re-selection (I’m glad the dye scheme persists, and recent outfits have done a superb job of looking good with the same 4 dyes, yet I do wish I could set it per outfit). Thus people will flaunt their new purchases right away rather than adding them bit by bit into their mix and match. That doesn’t mean they didn’t buy them, only that they aren’t using them as quickly.

I do agree that the profits must be greater compared to the development resources spent, but I agree based on how much they’re choosing to emphasize outfits, not on whether I see people wearing the stuff.

I read a few ideas on this thread and I’ve come up with a possible solution. All of these outfits could be kept as outfits but with an added bonus. Purchasing the outfit would unlock the skins for all armor types, but the skins would not be free to apply. Outfits are free to apply as a set after purchase, which is their advantage. However the option to spend extra on transmutation charges to apply the skins to normal armor sets could be added to satisfy those of us who like to mix our armor.

Cecilia.5179:

I read a few ideas on this thread and I’ve come up with a possible solution. All of these outfits could be kept as outfits but with an added bonus. Purchasing the outfit would unlock the skins for all armor types, but the skins would not be free to apply. Outfits are free to apply as a set after purchase, which is their advantage. However the option to spend extra on transmutation charges to apply the skins to normal armor sets could be added to satisfy those of us who like to mix our armor.

Except it doesn’t work that way.

The outfits are a “fourth” armor weight and they are a single unit. Armors are 6 pieces for each set. To make them unlock, they would have to be designed separately for each of the 3 armor weights and separately again within each weight if the designs for the sexes differ.

If ANet is going to do that much work then either they will sell them or they will make them in game content but there is no way they will give 3 to 6 sets of armor away for free with one purchase of one outfit.

MrRuin.9740:

I do not care for the outfit system of having to wear everything except the headpiece.

You can also hide the shoulders and the gloves.

Actually I am in game right now and I just checked on all the outfits I have and you can only hide the head piece. Infact I’d honestly like many of the outfits more if I could hide the shoulders.

You can hide Cook’s gloves. I think that’s about it for non-headpieces.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Cecilia.5179:

I read a few ideas on this thread and I’ve come up with a possible solution. All of these outfits could be kept as outfits but with an added bonus. Purchasing the outfit would unlock the skins for all armor types, but the skins would not be free to apply. Outfits are free to apply as a set after purchase, which is their advantage. However the option to spend extra on transmutation charges to apply the skins to normal armor sets could be added to satisfy those of us who like to mix our armor.

Except it doesn’t work that way.

The outfits are a “fourth” armor weight and they are a single unit. Armors are 6 pieces for each set. To make them unlock, they would have to be designed separately for each of the 3 armor weights and separately again within each weight if the designs for the sexes differ.

If ANet is going to do that much work then either they will sell them or they will make them in game content but there is no way they will give 3 to 6 sets of armor away for free with one purchase of one outfit.

But it can work this way. It would be more in the fashion of the helms that unlock for all three armor weights in that there is no difference in the different weights. My point was that the same skin of the outfit broken up into 6 pieces could be added to each pool of armor and be applicable via transmutation charges to give the opportunity for mixing. Sure, it would look bad with certain sets, but that is the case for all armor in this game. I would never dream of them adding a Medium and Heavy Witch set for free onto the witch outfit purchase. Not all armor in this game looks exactly like its weight.

Cecilia.5179:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Cecilia.5179:

I read a few ideas on this thread and I’ve come up with a possible solution. All of these outfits could be kept as outfits but with an added bonus. Purchasing the outfit would unlock the skins for all armor types, but the skins would not be free to apply. Outfits are free to apply as a set after purchase, which is their advantage. However the option to spend extra on transmutation charges to apply the skins to normal armor sets could be added to satisfy those of us who like to mix our armor.

Except it doesn’t work that way.

The outfits are a “fourth” armor weight and they are a single unit. Armors are 6 pieces for each set. To make them unlock, they would have to be designed separately for each of the 3 armor weights and separately again within each weight if the designs for the sexes differ.

If ANet is going to do that much work then either they will sell them or they will make them in game content but there is no way they will give 3 to 6 sets of armor away for free with one purchase of one outfit.

But it can work this way. It would be more in the fashion of the helms that unlock for all three armor weights in that there is no difference in the different weights. My point was that the same skin of the outfit broken up into 6 pieces could be added to each pool of armor and be applicable via transmutation charges to give the opportunity for mixing. Sure, it would look bad with certain sets, but that is the case for all armor in this game. I would never dream of them adding a Medium and Heavy Witch set for free onto the witch outfit purchase. Not all armor in this game looks exactly like its weight.

I’m afraid you don’t understand the problems behind what you are asking.

If they make the Hex outfit only for light armor, then that a 12 pieces of armor that has to be designed from the very beginning, the male and female versions. You can’t just copy paste a outfit, which is one single seamless item onto an armor set which is 6 pieces of armor. It doesn’t work that way. It’s 2 whole new complete sets of armor designed from the very start and it’s a lot of work, as you can see from the speed that they put new armor sets into the game.

I’m probably the only person who sees outfits in the gemstore as a good thing. I’d much rather armor be in-game rather than just a giant cash purchase (gold or real money), preferrably more dungeon/map reward token systems (like the Luminesce/Carapace armor). That way armor actually feels like an achievement while an outfit is just something you buy because it looks cool.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

You can’t just copy paste a outfit, which is one single seamless item onto an armor set which is 6 pieces of armor. It doesn’t work that way. It’s 2 whole new complete sets of armor designed from the very start and it’s a lot of work, as you can see from the speed that they put new armor sets into the game.

Somehow, I really doubt that outfits are made of just one big single mesh model. Why would a 3D artist make just one big blob when it would be much easier to do the chest, then add the shoulders, then the helmet, etc…? It doesn’t make any sense.

What I believe is that by sticking to outfits they require less quality checking and therefore they can release them faster.

Cuddy.6247:

I’m probably the only person who sees outfits in the gemstore as a good thing. I’d much rather armor be in-game rather than just a giant cash purchase (gold or real money), preferrably more dungeon/map reward token systems (like the Luminesce/Carapace armor). That way armor actually feels like an achievement while an outfit is just something you buy because it looks cool.

I see it as a good thing and as exactly what ANet should be selling in the gem store. (After all, they have to be selling something that people want to buy).

I remember with each set of armor that came out in the gem store, there were threads saying it was a cash grab and how people wanted the armors to be in game instead. Well, hopefully that’s what is happening. The new armors (that have been datamined) will be in game as achievement rewards and they will make more outfits to sell in the gemstore.

Zanshin.5379:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

You can’t just copy paste a outfit, which is one single seamless item onto an armor set which is 6 pieces of armor. It doesn’t work that way. It’s 2 whole new complete sets of armor designed from the very start and it’s a lot of work, as you can see from the speed that they put new armor sets into the game.

Somehow, I really doubt that outfits are made of just one big single mesh model. Why would a 3D artist make just one big blob when it would be much easier to do the chest, then add the shoulders, then the helmet, etc…? It doesn’t make any sense.

What I believe is that by sticking to outfits they require less quality checking and therefore they can release them faster.

The way the dye channels are set up makes me think it’s one piece. If you look at armor pieces, the dye channels are for each piece. The gloves, for example, might have 3 dye channels for it. You look at the outfits with their 4 dye channels and the colors go to different pieces of the armor as if it’s one whole piece with 4 dye channels. You can dye one quadrant and might dye pieces on the chest and on the shoes. Another quadrant on the same outfit might dye parts of the head, chest and shoes.

If they were separate pieces, then it seems they would be set up to mix and match within the different outfits. But they can’t. Each is a standalone set.

Even if Anet were to make outfits into armor, then either every one would be tied to a specific weight class (like all the gem store armor sets) or Anet would have to make a version of the set compatible with each armor weight (all sold for 800 gems apiece, of course! I can only imagine the forum’s reaction to that).

Guhracie.3419:

As far as I’m aware, each of the three armor types use a different mesh, and I’m pretty sure outfits use a fourth.

A dev has more or less stated this outright, I believe, around the time the Feature Pack was released. It’s probably also why most of the non-outfit town clothes weren’t converted into armor.

I drastically prefer armor sets over outfits. My opinions usually differ from the designers and I would much rather be able to put take out the weird parts they they put on most sets/outfits.

Haven’t spent any money on outfits. I’ve bought gems for armors and for instruments, but I will not ever give my real money to outfits. The Balth set has some pieces that I would love to have, but I do not want the entire outfit. Again, I guess their metrics are what they are, and I have no problem with them releasing both, but it sucks big time when such a great piece is made an outfit only.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Orangensaft.7139:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

rapthorne.7345:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

I’m not?

Sorry if it came out that way, I didn’t mean to sound like you were whining.

All I’m trying to say is that there are people, like me, that love outfits.

But when they are making BOTH armour sets and outfits, what is the problem then?

the problem atm is that they are NOT making these outfits as armorsets too
and thats what we want to change

Sorry, but if there is a market for outfits, they will sell it.

I enjoy outfits.

With respect, I suggest that the only reason “there is a market for outfits” is that we have no other choice to get the look of [insert name of outfit you like here]! Lack of choice is, in fact, one way to drive a market, but it is a method that fails to maximize sales and creates disgruntled customers, which is EXACTLY what we are seeing in this and similar forum threads.

Look at it another way: if [insert name of your favorite outfit here] had been available when you bought it as an armor skin set that you could pick ’n choose which parts you wear and mix ’n match with other armor pieces, would you still have chosen the outfit that offered no flexibility whatsoever as to which pieces you wear and/or mix ’n match?

I submit that armor skin sets would outsell identical-looking outfits EVERY time, even if the armor skin sets cost a few more gems, AND that overall revenues from outfits+armor skins would increase significantly because people who are NOT buying into the inflexibility of outfits (see most of the previous posts in this and similar threads) would jump at the chance to get the look they wanted with mix ’n matchable 6-piece skin sets.

That’s certainly an arguable point, Lolyta. (I use that in legal trial sense, as in “the argument has a solid basis, though it can be debated,” not to say “I will fight you on it.”).

However, one must factor in two key selling point of outfits. One, their infinite free use after initial purchase. Two, they can be used by any alt of the buyer (for I posit that if they did release them as armor sets, they would have to limit them by armor weight. I think the only universal armor skins have been limited to head, shoulders, boots, and gloves. Even Radiant/Hellfire will have different chest/legs by weight).

So yes, one might really want to mix and match pieces of these outfits — there are so many beautiful ones! — but not every alt will be able to use every piece, and someone not interested in playing medium professions isn’t going to buy armor restricted to medium wearers. How much of an offset would that be? I have no idea.

I know I’ve been posting as a strong outfits defender. And I admit I’ve bought every outfit so far. Yet much of the reason has been their beauty, no matter how I chafe at the dye restrictions and the all-or-nothingness. It’s just that I understand the technical limitations they’re working under, and that it would be very hard for them to make the outfit designs into working armor pieces. I still yearn for more freedom in skin use, and hope that the “new tech” they keep mentioning for HoT will include some armor rigging changes that they just haven’t got solid enough to tell us about yet.

Personally i appreciate the fact that outfits are a cross class full skin, its what makes them special. Take the Regalia, what makes it special to me, is that it will be the first set of “proper armor” available to the light classes. That is what i like about it, if it were a skin it would be heavy and there for loose what makes it special.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Cecilia.5179:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Cecilia.5179:

I read a few ideas on this thread and I’ve come up with a possible solution. All of these outfits could be kept as outfits but with an added bonus. Purchasing the outfit would unlock the skins for all armor types, but the skins would not be free to apply. Outfits are free to apply as a set after purchase, which is their advantage. However the option to spend extra on transmutation charges to apply the skins to normal armor sets could be added to satisfy those of us who like to mix our armor.

Except it doesn’t work that way.

The outfits are a “fourth” armor weight and they are a single unit. Armors are 6 pieces for each set. To make them unlock, they would have to be designed separately for each of the 3 armor weights and separately again within each weight if the designs for the sexes differ.

If ANet is going to do that much work then either they will sell them or they will make them in game content but there is no way they will give 3 to 6 sets of armor away for free with one purchase of one outfit.

But it can work this way. It would be more in the fashion of the helms that unlock for all three armor weights in that there is no difference in the different weights. My point was that the same skin of the outfit broken up into 6 pieces could be added to each pool of armor and be applicable via transmutation charges to give the opportunity for mixing. Sure, it would look bad with certain sets, but that is the case for all armor in this game. I would never dream of them adding a Medium and Heavy Witch set for free onto the witch outfit purchase. Not all armor in this game looks exactly like its weight.

I’m afraid you don’t understand the problems behind what you are asking.

If they make the Hex outfit only for light armor, then that a 12 pieces of armor that has to be designed from the very beginning, the male and female versions. You can’t just copy paste a outfit, which is one single seamless item onto an armor set which is 6 pieces of armor. It doesn’t work that way. It’s 2 whole new complete sets of armor designed from the very start and it’s a lot of work, as you can see from the speed that they put new armor sets into the game.

If you look closely at every outfit, you will find that each one cleanly cuts into 6 pieces. Also, why does the Hex Outfit have to be light armor exclusive? I was thinking that there could be a light, heavy, and medium version of it that all look the same. Anybody can already wear this outfit; this just gives people the chance to customize it further from the complete set.

Cecilia.5179:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Cecilia.5179:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Cecilia.5179:

I read a few ideas on this thread and I’ve come up with a possible solution. All of these outfits could be kept as outfits but with an added bonus. Purchasing the outfit would unlock the skins for all armor types, but the skins would not be free to apply. Outfits are free to apply as a set after purchase, which is their advantage. However the option to spend extra on transmutation charges to apply the skins to normal armor sets could be added to satisfy those of us who like to mix our armor.

Except it doesn’t work that way.

The outfits are a “fourth” armor weight and they are a single unit. Armors are 6 pieces for each set. To make them unlock, they would have to be designed separately for each of the 3 armor weights and separately again within each weight if the designs for the sexes differ.

If ANet is going to do that much work then either they will sell them or they will make them in game content but there is no way they will give 3 to 6 sets of armor away for free with one purchase of one outfit.

But it can work this way. It would be more in the fashion of the helms that unlock for all three armor weights in that there is no difference in the different weights. My point was that the same skin of the outfit broken up into 6 pieces could be added to each pool of armor and be applicable via transmutation charges to give the opportunity for mixing. Sure, it would look bad with certain sets, but that is the case for all armor in this game. I would never dream of them adding a Medium and Heavy Witch set for free onto the witch outfit purchase. Not all armor in this game looks exactly like its weight.

I’m afraid you don’t understand the problems behind what you are asking.

If they make the Hex outfit only for light armor, then that a 12 pieces of armor that has to be designed from the very beginning, the male and female versions. You can’t just copy paste a outfit, which is one single seamless item onto an armor set which is 6 pieces of armor. It doesn’t work that way. It’s 2 whole new complete sets of armor designed from the very start and it’s a lot of work, as you can see from the speed that they put new armor sets into the game.

If you look closely at every outfit, you will find that each one cleanly cuts into 6 pieces. Also, why does the Hex Outfit have to be light armor exclusive? I was thinking that there could be a light, heavy, and medium version of it that all look the same. Anybody can already wear this outfit; this just gives people the chance to customize it further from the complete set.

I was using the example of the Hex as light because you said “I would never dream of them adding a Medium and Heavy Witch set for free onto the witch outfit purchase.” So I applied that to the Hex when I was describing how much trouble it would be since that has the appearance of light armor.

Another thing that needs to be considered is the seams. Each armor weight has seams in different places. Because they all have different seams lines in different places, the different weights are incompatible. The outfits in effect are a 4th armor weight, and that weight is incompatible with the other 3 weights. To make outfits over into medium, heavy and light armor, each set would have to be designed from the very beginning. Because the seams do not match, you can not copy and paste. They artists would have to sit down with the picture and design a whole set of armor for each weight, starting from the very beginning. If they do this, then they are going to charge for their work. They are not going to give this amount of work away with the purchase of one outfit, even only one per outfit unless the price is both for the armor and outfit.

The best I can describe it as, if each armor weight was like a jigsaw puzzle. The outfits, if they are broken into pieces, then they make a 4th jigsaw puzzle. The jigsaw puzzle pieces from the outfits are not going to fit on each of the 3 different armor jigsaw puzzles cleanly without a lot of chopping up and gluing together.

Here is an article on why they started making costumes. Most of it isn’t relevant but there is one paragraph that touches on armors and compatibility.

Source (page 18).
“When we started looking at bringing more of the clothing back into armor with mix and match styles there are some fundamental incompatible things between weight classes. (part of how we set up every armor to allow many dye channels and styles per piece).. There really is no way at this point over six years since we started development to make absolutely everything work together.”