Guild Wars 2

Nemesis gets it!

More people who just think zerker meta is the only acceptable gear in gw2.
Can’t find any fun in this vid, all about grey theorycrafting and perfect boring rotations.
“speedrun, zerk meta, 5k ap+” can’t see this discription anymore!

mov.1246:

More people who just think zerker meta is the only acceptable gear in gw2.
Can’t find any fun in this vid, all about grey theorycrafting and perfect boring rotations.
“speedrun, zerk meta, 5k ap+” can’t see this discription anymore!

Did you even watch the video? He basically proves why the berserker meta is a lie, it’s a good video and it’s worth the watch.

Just saw the video! It is amazing! I was thinking of posting it too here… lol This video is not grey theorycrafting, he (and I think with the help of Brazil) did fights in fractals, etc, in different scenarios and divided the damage by the duration of the fight. Any class with frost bow does more dps, and by a lot more I mean 2-4k more dps than any class not using the ice bow. The metazerk is a lie. IceBow is op.

Still waiting this guy to prove his ‘numbers’ by beating any Warrior solo of Miku/Sesshi/Goku with his so called ‘superior necro dps’.

But he won’t

Zerker is awsome! Ban or kick all non zerker, because non zerker are really annoying ingame (joining groups all the time) and are the most complaining group on this forum.

Is there really a need for another thread about this? It has been really done to death already.

Summary of what I feel about this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jle2h/the_meta_is_a_lie/cuqa9ch

But to make the comment more accessible a direct quote:

“Sigh, if only this guy would stop skewing data in his favor constantly just to fit his agenda…

I’ve noticed he always uses examples of pugs kicking him from groups because he’s on a necro. After it happens, he groups basically every single person who uses builds that involve berserker gear into one mesh of people that he kittens on in every single video that he uploads.

Good players tend to already know pugs are morons, berserker gear doesn’t magically make someone a good player because all it does is just give you better attributes for dealing damage. There’s really nothing special to it. The fact that so many people are idiots and kick people for gear/class all the time is annoying, but it’s even more annoying whenever a Nemesis video pops up claiming necros have better DPS than warriors (lol, how many times has he tried to prove that by now, this the third time?) and so many clueless people believe everything he says… ugh.

One of his worshippers just accused me of “glitching” a boss because I use whirlwind attack into a wall to prevent myself from moving. You just can’t seem to reason with people like this— they’re not looking to be proven wrong, they’re already posting with the mentality that they’re right no matter what and if anybody opposes them they will either completely ignore or dish out insults. This is why I and so many people can’t stand this guy— he acts like he is so strongly against elitism on this game yet he promotes hate in every single one of these videos."

I’m in agreement with Miku on this. I give him props for showing that Necro is a viable class, but a too much of that video (I only watched the first few minutes) comes off as self-aggrandizing.

Kordash.2197:

Still waiting this guy to prove his ‘numbers’ by beating any Warrior solo of Miku/Sesshi/Goku with his so called ‘superior necro dps’.

But he won’t

You didn’t see his video… He compared in a linear fight where you can get ~ max dps, Brazil’s warrior damage over the fight, and his own. With icebow, without icebow, with early tw, with <50% hp. Gee, I really don’t understand you people, it’s as if you leave your brains in your pocket when you discuss some subjects.

Lol necros please…. even in zerk gear you are sub par at best so please stop trying to climb into meta

Purple Miku.7032:

This is why I and so many people can’t stand this guy— he acts like he is so strongly against elitism on this game yet he promotes hate in every single one of these videos."

I watch it everyday with the champions of social justice. It’s called hypocrisy.

JoaoFA.8475:

Kordash.2197:

Still waiting this guy to prove his ‘numbers’ by beating any Warrior solo of Miku/Sesshi/Goku with his so called ‘superior necro dps’.

But he won’t

You didn’t see his video… He compared in a linear fight where you can get ~ max dps, Brazil’s warrior damage over the fight, and his own. With icebow, without icebow, with early tw, with <50% hp. Gee, I really don’t understand you people, it’s as if you leave your brains in your pocket when you discuss some subjects.

I did watch it. But the comparaison don’t even stand. Since in the current meta, the warrior should NOT pick the ice bow, and the warrior build is reducing is personnal DPS for the sake of buffing the overall group DPS. The current meta build is PS, and is NOT the maximum DPS build for a warrior.

So if you really wanna compare the warrior to the necro DPS, do it properly. And try achieve the same kill times on the same encounters.

Please don’t assume we’ve let our brains on the side. That’s rude and makes you a jerk.

Kordash.2197:

JoaoFA.8475:

Kordash.2197:

Still waiting this guy to prove his ‘numbers’ by beating any Warrior solo of Miku/Sesshi/Goku with his so called ‘superior necro dps’.

But he won’t

You didn’t see his video… He compared in a linear fight where you can get ~ max dps, Brazil’s warrior damage over the fight, and his own. With icebow, without icebow, with early tw, with <50% hp. Gee, I really don’t understand you people, it’s as if you leave your brains in your pocket when you discuss some subjects.

I did watch it. But the comparaison don’t even stand. Since in the current meta, the warrior should NOT pick the ice bow, and the warrior build is reducing is personnal DPS for the sake of buffing the overall group DPS. The current meta build is PS, and is NOT the maximum DPS build for a warrior.

So if you really wanna compare the warrior to the necro DPS, do it properly. And try achieve the same kill times on the same encounters.

Please don’t assume we’ve let our brains on the side. That’s rude and makes you a jerk.

Record some videos, for each add up the damage and divide it by time, for different classes. Then you will be ready to talk with nemesis.

I apologise for being rude, but the thing is that I read a lot of stuff saying “oh nemesis is wrong… blablabla”, but I never see actual video footage and then it’s data. I only see comments based on theorycrafting and on what other people said. That’s not honest, and comes out as prejudiced.
When I see a guy, doing videos, showing them and then doing the very simple math with live data, that guy has my respect.

Bomber.3872:

Zerker is awsome! Ban or kick all non zerker, because non zerker are really annoying ingame (joining groups all the time) and are the most complaining group on this forum.

To be fair, most zerker players are terrible and spend most of the run downed or dead. It’s the small % of zerkers that actually know what they are doing and can take advantage of the high DPS.

I know you’re just trolling, but thought I’d throw this out there.

Nemesis is often right about alot of things in this game, however, the way he presents himself is very unfriendly, arrogant and unapproachable, and I think if he wants more people to take him seriously (and that’s actually something the community could really do with), he needs to tone it down alot.

He also needs to get off his little vendetta against Warrior DPS that he has when always comparing his Necromancer to it, it makes him look a bit petty. He’s quite correct that both classes have similar DPS, and both classes are in the bottom 50% of classes for DPS output, anybody that isn’t a scrub knows that Warrior DPS actually isn’t too hot over a sustained encounter, it just has a high amount of front-loaded burst damage (that the big numbers often misleads the scrubs to believe they are doing more than they actually are).

There’s a reason for this though – the two classes are also the two most naturally resilient classes in the game, sure other classes can be super tanky, but not the extent of these two with so little effort. As a result, these classes have to be lower on the DPS spectrum to balance things. It wouldn’t be fair if they put out as much DPS as a Thief or Ele when both are far more fragile unless you don’t put the effort in to make them not so. Afterall, this is the whole reason between pre-release and final release the Engineer lost it’s high HP pool and went down to a medium HP pool (originally, there was one class in each armour category with low HP, medium HP, and high HP, but you may notice that Medium Armour now has two classes with medium HP instead).

So why do people always want a Warrior? It’s for the passive stat bonuses provided via empower allies and banners, and it’s ability to maintain 25 stacks of Might. It’s not for it’s personal damage. If it wasn’t for these things, Warrior would be in the same place as Necromancer right now. As small personal off-topic remark, Phalanx Strength I believe is overpowered and the Warrior being able to maintain 25 party Might all alone is too much, it should be around 15-16 like the Guardian and the Revenant are capable off. This already would encourage more diversity in team set-ups. But that’s something for a different discussion I suppose.

If you’d want to argue that Necromancer is a strong class for DPS, you’d have to compare it to Thief, Elementalist, Ranger (including the Pet!) or Engineer, in which case, it wouldn’t even come close. Of course, the fact Ranger is also often frowned upon by groups is yet another example of how, as Nemesis does explain, the current scrub meta PvEers really have no clue.

If you take the party bonuses away from Warrior, the only real advantage it has over Necromancer is it’s greater cleaving potential, something ANet are quite aware of, which is why the only huge change Necromancer is getting in HoT, is access to a strong cleaving weapon with the Greatsword and Knight Shroud. Other than that, I think you’ll find in HoT Necromancer will function very similar in potential to what it is now, which to be fair, is perfectly fine.

I’am disappointed he didn’t put a focus on the specific gear the meta uses more though, Scholar Runes being the big target here. This is one thing you can say for sure is only popularized by the Icebow Freeze Meta, otherwise, without a hard-core healer in the group (in which case you are losing alot of DPS by having someone specced like that anyway), that PLUS 10% DPS at 90% PLUS HP will very, very rarely be active in my experience (even on Necromancer, when you can hide your HP behind Deathshroud), and 95% of the time you are better off with a more generic +4% to +7% damage bonus that you can benefit from consistently, including target under 50% HP bonuses if your party is front-loading alot of burst (Warriors again).

Which reminds, Nemesis did seem to forget that Guardians are regularly providing group quickness now, and it makes sense for them to use it upon entering a fight seems it’ll probably be recharged before the fight is over in their case too, seems the recharge on Feel My Wrath is pretty good. He should consider that before he rages at the Mesmer for using Time Warp early.

Purple Miku.7032:

Good players tend to already know pugs are morons, berserker gear doesn’t magically make someone a good player because all it does is just give you better attributes for dealing damage. There’s really nothing special to it.

This, so much. I don’t know how many times I’ve struggled to try to make random PuG scrubs understand that having someone who knows and has experienced (or failing that, someone who will actually listen to instructions, if they don’t know it), is 10x more important to a fast and successful run than what gear someone is using and what class they are playing as. This goes hand in hand with the whole “we can start now with whatever classes and be done in 30 minutes thing, or we can wait 30 minutes for the perfect composition and end up taking 45 minutes total to finish the content instead of just 30” thing.

EDIT: Just typing PLUS instead of using the symbol, because post formatting is weird.

KotCR.6024:

Purple Miku.7032:

Good players tend to already know pugs are morons, berserker gear doesn’t magically make someone a good player because all it does is just give you better attributes for dealing damage. There’s really nothing special to it.

This, so much. I don’t know how many times I’ve struggled to try to make random PuG scrubs understand that having someone who knows and has experienced (or failing that, someone who will actually listen to instructions, if they don’t know it), is 10x more important to a fast and successful run than what gear someone is using and what class they are playing as. This goes hand in hand with the whole “we can start now with whatever classes and be done in 30 minutes thing, or we can wait 30 minutes for the perfect composition and end up taking 45 minutes total to finish the content instead of just 30” thing.

This is so true. I have been in pugs that keep failing fractals because they don’t listen. They think they have zerker gear so they don’t have to pay attention anymore. Not true. I’ve seen too many guardians that don’t use their aegis/wall at all to support the team. Yet they spend the time in chat boasting about 25 legendary weapons they have. Really, skill and ability to listen/ask questions is so much more important than what gear you have.

Add good gear and group composition to skill => you end up with those groups that know what they are doing and run things smoothly.

All this is pointless. Nemesis might have solid evidence but it hinges on assuming the encounter officially begins when the party is in range to attack. Likewise, the elitist crowd does have a point that while DPSing bosses down as fast as possible is highly efficient they are wrong in that maximising DPS isn’t the best nor most efficient way to go through encounters.

Usually doing zerker with enough skill and a little tankiness is optimal to keep DPS at a high enough balance. Otherwise just use what works best for you. The professions are designed to be self-sufficient afterall.

And just for the record, necros have the highest vuln stacking capabilities of any profession as well as a steady access of dark fields which can be used for life leeching. DPS might not be great but you have a higher chance to survive with one. They are very useful to a group comp.

KotCR.6024:

Nemesis is often right about alot of things in this game, however, the way he presents himself is very unfriendly, arrogant and unapproachable, and I think if he wants more people to take him seriously (and that’s actually something the community could really do with), he needs to tone it down alot.

It’s so bad that I literally can’t watch him. The arrogance is practically oozing out of his videos. Also, most of the stuff he is “right” about are obvious things that he just rephrases and should be common knowledge to experienced players. Kudos to him though for enlightening newer players.

Purple Miku.7032:

Purple Miku.7032:

Good players tend to already know pugs are morons, berserker gear doesn’t magically make someone a good player because all it does is just give you better attributes for dealing damage. There’s really nothing special to it.

This, so much. I don’t know how many times I’ve struggled to try to make random PuG scrubs understand that having someone who knows and has experienced (or failing that, someone who will actually listen to instructions, if they don’t know it), is 10x more important to a fast and successful run than what gear someone is using and what class they are playing as. This goes hand in hand with the whole “we can start now with whatever classes and be done in 30 minutes thing, or we can wait 30 minutes for the perfect composition and end up taking 45 minutes total to finish the content instead of just 30” thing.

Quoted for truth. But let’s not pay attention to this, there is people on a crusade out there who might take offence to common sense. Let’s keep screeming nerf berserker gear without actually addressing the actual problem.

I agree that tone with which Nemesis presents his videos could be more friendly. Another thing that is true is that the skill is the most important thing, many times I’ve done dungeons with the “right” classes and “right” specs and failed miserably because they didnt know how to listen and got downed and downed again. But again a good team with any classes will do extremely well. It is not really nice to click in the LFG and only see there “LF METAZERK” or “ele/warriors”. A lot of assumptions are made on illusions, remove the icebow damage and a lot of things change for example. The class strengths only show themselves if there is enough time in the encounter, so if you zomgburst down a boss in 10 seconds with insane burst, you will only need a niche, because the rest doesnt matter. Does this happen in most lfg groups? No. So what is the point on kicking certain classes in pugs?

I’m a big fan of nemesis and his pragmatic approaches and analysis of things. Thank you for posting the video.

To those people who are focusing on “warrior vs necro” or “necro becoming meta” .. You’re clearly and and undoubtfully missing the whole point of the video and the problem it’s trying to address.

Ps: to whoever typed “waiting for him to solo warrior on his dps build” .. I suggest you come back to watch this after whatever you smoked wares off lol

and here i am thinking it was common knowledge by now that the problem with necros wasnt their dps but lack of team support. people still try to prove necro dps isnt that bad? i thought the discussion had moved on :o oh and on people thinking every run has to be a speed run with optimal dps and team comp oh lol in a pug it hardly ever makes a difference if u pick up a thief or mes or a 2nd ele or whatever. maybe like + – 5 mins on a complete fractal run if everyone knows what to do and their class but whatever :o( only a decent guard really makes u feel a difference but with decent blind rotations even that isnt that big of a deal.

i really dont get why people are so eager at this topic. never had a problem finding grps and ignoring those meta speed run lfgs. sure sometimes there are people in there sub 1k ap with crazy builds and no dmg at all but if its only 1 theres no problem

When you build a game around just one of the trinity roles (dps) dont be surprised when people spec and stat for that one single specific role.

poor game design decision. This is why i say, leave the Anti-WoW stuff at the door whe making a MMO. It clouds developers decisions and make them make poorly thought out decision in game design.

and i bet like 100g that in a casual grp u wont be able to tell the difference between lioke 12k or 15k dps. sure, if everyone does that 3k dps more it IS a difference, but even then its not that big. the real problem is people picking up that meta stuff and thinking its the be all and end all. but no one is able to stop ignorance of people so let them do what they want, avoid them and go on. well. nothing new here, too ;:D

JoaoFA.8475:

Kordash.2197:

Still waiting this guy to prove his ‘numbers’ by beating any Warrior solo of Miku/Sesshi/Goku with his so called ‘superior necro dps’.

But he won’t

You didn’t see his video… He compared in a linear fight where you can get ~ max dps, Brazil’s warrior damage over the fight, and his own. With icebow, without icebow, with early tw, with <50% hp. Gee, I really don’t understand you people, it’s as if you leave your brains in your pocket when you discuss some subjects.

He compared a phalanx strength warrior’s dps (including time to drop banners) with a necro that had both banner buffs and was grouped with a phalanx strength warrior giving it might stacks. That also included use of lich form (on a 180s cooldown) after just talking about calculating dps instead of burst based around your longest cooldown.

KotCR.6024:

He also needs to get off his little vendetta against Warrior DPS that he has when always comparing his Necromancer to it, it makes him look a bit petty. He’s quite correct that both classes have similar DPS, and both classes are in the bottom 50% of classes for DPS output, anybody that isn’t a scrub knows that Warrior DPS actually isn’t too hot over a sustained encounter, it just has a high amount of front-loaded burst damage (that the big numbers often misleads the scrubs to believe they are doing more than they actually are).

What front loaded burst damage would that be? HB and WW have 6.4 and 8 second cooldowns.

well and pls dont take that as an offense, but this game isnt about only dps. also team support and active defenses. the only thing neglected is healing because of so high dmg spikes that healing outside of your own capabilitys hardly makes a difference at all. and im sure down state has sth to say to this topic, too. people only talking about dps only shows that they dont know what they r talking about. good and proper ccs are also vital to easy runs

Hot dang, got me, time go full healing shout warrior mace/warhorn and show that kitten elitists!
got called scrub in this videos enough to no need to join “metazerk” group in a month.

This break my heart. Nemesis like always have some super important points that everybody should talk about, but buried it in hyperbole, misdirection and lie.

The bad
1) He talk about meta by saying as : Only half the profession are worth something, one build for each and absolutely everybody should run Beserker. But in reality 5 out 8 profession are meta and 2 more profession are consider great. Each profession have different build (even if meta battle is a little behind on that), with some variation depending a the situation and Sinister is now part of several great build.
2) He put the blame on Icebow, but DnT never include Icebow in their DPS rotation of 30second. So the ranking of DPS isn’t affected by what he talk about in half of his video. The necromancer still have less DPS than other profession even if the Icebow would be completely removed.
3) He talk about the meta as only DPS. I most be playing meta wrong because I have a ton of support in my build. Yes DPS is a main focus, but support is also super important in meta.
4) He talk like everybody focus on buff and he’s the only one that think that Vulnerability is important. The focus on vulnerability is important, almost every single meta build have take a trait, skill or weapon to participate in the Vulnerability.
5) Meta is such a problem that when he want to show up how it is rampant, he can only show us that 34% of the LFG ask for Meta, while the 66% remaining LFG don’t ask for it. And notice how the only LFG that stay up as he refresh are meta LFG that don’t fill up, while the rest quickly fill up.

Good
1) DnT DPS number are good to rank the profession in absolute. But nobody does these numbers and actual numbers like he did are far more important. This game really need a dps meter (that only you can see, so we don’t have a witch hunt with it) so that people really get how much less dps they do than the number DnT put.
2) Pre buff never make sense to me unless you can’t attack the boss right away.
3) The Line attack from Icebow is pretty much an exploit. But not that many people are doing it. Not a big deal IMO.
4) Yes try hards are a real problem with the game. And the way DnT and Metabattle present thing, they are partially at fault here.
5) Necromancer isn’t too bad. He have the lowest dps on all 8, but it’s not as bad as people think, and Icebow make that difference even lower. Unfortunately, the current content don’t push toward the strength of the Necromancer. No need for weakness, boon stripping or condi transfer much right now. So the Necro is limited in term of group support for the current content.
6) The Icebow is a bit too strong. It’s like a small Area Meteor Shower that everybody can use at the same time. He should be strong, but not as strong as it is right now.

There is a person who posted this in relation to his post, which I think sums up pretty well his video. He was answering to people saying the video was about necro vs warrior, or zerker being bad.

Tobias.8632:

That wasn’t the point of the video, it’s about how this meta of 3 classes designed to carry ice bows to a boss and four ice bows to kill the boss in 5 seconds renders any dps measurement pointless since the ice bows do so much more damage then any player could hope to achieve.

I didn’t watch the whole video.

But you can prep the same time you attack the boss. For example you can have warrior put down banner while other people is dpsing.

And I think one big point is many people really can’t play. So the less time they are in boss fight the less time they have less chance to die.

JoaoFA.8475:

So what is the point on kicking certain classes in pugs?

Certain classes fulfill certain roles. A guardian is used to bring stabi, condiremoval and projectile protection. A warrior brings his banners and might to increase party dps.
Thief for stealth, stack removal (icebow freeze), blinds, dps.
Ele for dps, blinds, icebows, might, fury.
(edit: its not a complete list, just some of the most important aspects.)
Ofc you can replace one of these classes – but you have to make sure all important aspects are still covered. You need to know what you’re doing.
Most PUGs aren’t. If they replace the guard with a necro they might get into trouble.
Content gets more difficult without might, fury, reflects, blinds etc.

JoaoFA.8475:

There is a person who posted this in relation to his post, which I think sums up pretty well his video. He was answering to people saying the video was about necro vs warrior, or zerker being bad.

Tobias.8632:

That wasn’t the point of the video, it’s about how this meta of 3 classes 5 professions designed to carry ice bows to a boss and four ice bows to kill the boss in 5 seconds 20 seconds renders any most dps and defensive measurement pointless since the ice bows do so much more damage then any player could hope to achieve.

I agree, but here some fix. The under 10 seconds boss kill isn’t a meta or icebow problem. It’s a underlevel dungoen and bad scaling problem.

This game even before launch was advertised as being skill based.

People are still affixed to the older MMO where you are an equipment dependent class. Your gear will not carry you in GW2. It will however help. You need good skills, a solid build, know all your weapons, traits , utilities and when to use them. Play smart, work well with your team, synergize etc..

Throwing a inexperienced player in Zerk gear and expecting them to be is amazing DPS speed clearing machine is the equivalent of putting someone inside a Lamborghini who does not know how to use a stick shift and clutch.

Thaddeus.4891:

JoaoFA.8475:

There is a person who posted this in relation to his post, which I think sums up pretty well his video. He was answering to people saying the video was about necro vs warrior, or zerker being bad.

Tobias.8632:

That wasn’t the point of the video, it’s about how this meta of 3 classes 5 professions designed to carry ice bows to a boss and four ice bows to kill the boss in 5 seconds 20 seconds renders any most dps and defensive measurement pointless since the ice bows do so much more damage then any player could hope to achieve.

I agree, but here some fix. The under 10 seconds boss kill isn’t a meta or icebow problem. It’s a underlevel dungoen and bad scaling problem.

Fractals 50 certainly isn’t underlevel and still the Molten Duo’s Berserker usually dies before he even touches the ground.