Guild Wars 2

Krosslite.1950:

Above are all quotes from Arenanet.
In essence: doing DEs ARE the core of this game.
Fractal, sPvP, WvW, Dungeons are only a forth of this game, but still most everyone is focused on these instead of the rest of the game.
This has to change and it is not Anet that has to make these changes. It is the players themselves. Still they focus on old MMORPG models and do not see that this game is not them. It is its own game. That has it own challenges that they ignore daily.
As I have stated before with 26 zones of DEs mostly untouched by the player community it is sad to see them crying for the old ways instead of even making a effort to try the new way.
Please read and follow the suggestion I posted in the thread below and see how things can become different as they should be (btw I did name that thread the name it has.. an Anet employee gave it that name)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-call-to-action-emergent-play-getting-the-most-out-of-GW2/first#post1842894

The DEs are just a bunch of boring and static events that lack any challenge at all. I coukd literally run through the world with auto attack on and beat 99% of the events. Maybe if the bosses moved around a little and actually required strategy it would work.

Fernling.1729:

Krosslite.1950:

Above are all quotes from Arenanet.
In essence: doing DEs ARE the core of this game.
Fractal, sPvP, WvW, Dungeons are only a forth of this game, but still most everyone is focused on these instead of the rest of the game.
This has to change and it is not Anet that has to make these changes. It is the players themselves. Still they focus on old MMORPG models and do not see that this game is not them. It is its own game. That has it own challenges that they ignore daily.
As I have stated before with 26 zones of DEs mostly untouched by the player community it is sad to see them crying for the old ways instead of even making a effort to try the new way.
Please read and follow the suggestion I posted in the thread below and see how things can become different as they should be (btw I did name that thread the name it has.. an Anet employee gave it that name)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-call-to-action-emergent-play-getting-the-most-out-of-GW2/first#post1842894

The DEs are just a bunch of boring and static events that lack any challenge at all. I coukd literally run through the world with auto attack on and beat 99% of the events. Maybe if the bosses moved around a little and actually required strategy it would work.

Tell ya what.

You go on out there and those 1490 DEs and get back to me when your done ok

I’m glad they have shied away from DE’s being a cornerstone of end game content, because honestly Rift did them better.

However the PvP/WvW in this game makes Rift look like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum.

If they do a massive DE update I can see them becoming a major part of the game again.

Krosslite.1950:

Tell ya what.

You go on out there and those 1490 DEs and get back to me when your done ok

I’ve completed 71% of the map (too bored to finish), and the completed zones span the gamut, from the lowest level to the highest. At what point is the sample size sufficient?

I honestly think DE’s were some of the most fun I had in the game. Although, I guess that doesn’t say much for the rest of the game then, eh?

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Krosslite.1950:

Tell ya what.

You go on out there and those 1490 DEs and get back to me when your done ok

I’ve completed 71% of the map (too bored to finish), and the completed zones span the gamut, from the lowest level to the highest. At what point is the sample size sufficient?

Map compltion and going through the DEs are 2 completely different things

Krosslite.1950:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Krosslite.1950:

Tell ya what.

You go on out there and those 1490 DEs and get back to me when your done ok

I’ve completed 71% of the map (too bored to finish), and the completed zones span the gamut, from the lowest level to the highest. At what point is the sample size sufficient?

Map compltion and going through the DEs are 2 completely different things

Even if that were true, at what point is the sample size sufficient?

The day DE’s become rewarding I’ll actually do them. And I’m not talking about the amazing blue white green drops I get from the mobs while doing the DE, but the DE reward itself. I get my money by being a legendary garbage collector, merchant, whatever you wanna call it. We should have our own mercantile trait line like in elder scrolls games, I spend half my time selling trash.

This whole “Dragons are the only good DEs” stuff is silly. There are dozens and dozens of DEs out there that reward you just as much as dragons. You get a chest AS WELL AS a guaranteed rare equipment.

People just think the ones on the timers are the only ones that exist.

If you don’t like the game then leave and spare those who do your opinions. I have no idea why you would hang around a game that you all find so broken IYO. What? never bought a game you didn’t like before or just one you couldn’t trade for $6 at GameStop?

It doesn’t have the “trinity”.
It doesn’t have WoW style raids.
It doesn’t have open PvP or PvP specific servers.
It doesn’t have a market/craft system that you can make a bajillion gold with.

And in all likelihood this isn’t going to change anytime in the future so why hang around? Go. Shoo. Find another game or go back to the MMOs that you wished this game was just like.

Hey, I understand, different strokes for different folks. No hard feelings but go. Leave us in peace.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Krosslite.1950:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Krosslite.1950:

Tell ya what.

You go on out there and those 1490 DEs and get back to me when your done ok

I’ve completed 71% of the map (too bored to finish), and the completed zones span the gamut, from the lowest level to the highest. At what point is the sample size sufficient?

Map compltion and going through the DEs are 2 completely different things

Even if that were true, at what point is the sample size sufficient?

To complete maps you must do 1977 things to complete them.

260 Vistas (Not DEs)
202 Skill points (Not DEs)
706 Points of Interest (Not DEs)
508 Way Points (Not DEs)
301 Renown Hearts (DEs)

per: http://www.vg247.com/2011/08/24/guild-wars-2-to-feature-over-1500-dynamic-events/
there are over 1500 DEs

which leaves 1199+ DEs you may or may not of done. A majority of which are in Orr

A sample sizes is sufficient when over 600 people find and complete all or near the 1500 DEs in this game.

You yourself do not even qualify for this nor do I. If there were 600 people that had done all 1500+ DEs would there not be something posted some where that starting at point A and point C in Orr allowed us to meet at point AC and make N choices to go to end point AC/X.

Since there is not then a sufficient sample sizes has not been reached. So you yourself have proven my case for me. Thank you.

Krosslite.1950:

Since there is not then a sufficient sample sizes has not been reached. So you yourself have proven my case for me. Thank you.

My point is that I’ve played a lot of this game. You’re right that map completion is not strictly tied to DE’s—however, I’ve done plenty of DE’s while completing the map.

Thanks for your telling admission about sample size. I’m done following this thread.

Behellagh.1468:

If you don’t like the game then leave and spare those who do your opinions. I have no idea why you would hang around a game that you all find so broken IYO. What? never bought a game you didn’t like before or just one you couldn’t trade for $6 at GameStop?

It doesn’t have the “trinity”.
It doesn’t have WoW style raids.
It doesn’t have open PvP or PvP specific servers.
It doesn’t have a market/craft system that you can make a bajillion gold with.

And in all likelihood this isn’t going to change anytime in the future so why hang around? Go. Shoo. Find another game or go back to the MMOs that you wished this game was just like.

Hey, I understand, different strokes for different folks. No hard feelings but go. Leave us in peace.

Nah…. :P

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Krosslite.1950:

Since there is not then a sufficient sample sizes has not been reached. So you yourself have proven my case for me. Thank you.

My point is that I’ve played a lot of this game. You’re right that map completion is not strictly tied to DE’s—however, I’ve done plenty of DE’s while completing the map.

Thanks for your telling admission about sample size. I’m done following this thread.

Gee with over five million copies of the game out there. Thought my number were fairly generous. Guess we will never know ::shruggs::

We all do additional DEs then the Renown Hearts. Do they add up to 1500+. No they do not since per Anet most are in Orr tied to the DE web.

Sorry you wouldn’t respond to this since you never read it

EDIT: Form reading and responding in other threads I have come to the following conclusion. Which really verifies the title of this thread
People complain that this game has no endgame content.
When confronted with the fact that Anet has stated that the DEs ARE the endgame and that MOST of the DEs are in Orr.
These same people state that they refuse to go to Orr because it is too hard. So they state there is no end game. They stated that they hate Orr and refuse to go there.
Orr is where most of the endgame is AND requires large groups to do it correctly.
Orr is the only zone that REQUIRES groups. No other zone in this game does that is PvE.
So to these people that state there is no endgame and refuse to go to the zone that has most of the endgame content. i have to say one this:
Shame on you and it is time for you to move on to a simple none challenging game.

This is really sad and I pity those that have this mentality.

Orr has no renown hearts, the quest-like activities that have been known to litter the lower-level areas, “because there are generally very few friendly NPCs in Orr.” Instead, players’ focus in Orr will be on huge events. There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones; many of these are tied together as nets, rather than simple chains. Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we’ve seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game. Johanson suggested that players will need to recapture the fallen temples of the old gods and then keep control of those while also pushing deeper into the zone and fighting baddies at the frontlines.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07/12/arenanet-devs-talk-legendary-weapons-endgame-and-more/

Thing is people get to the temples and say “I’m done” there is nothing else to do. As you can read above that is false

I’m sorry, is the OP suggesting people are “playing the game wrong”? No offense, but that is a pompous game designer arrogance that has gained some traction recently e.g. Diablo 3. If people aren’t playing your game the way you wanted or expected them to (and they always will), the problem is with your design. Actually the problem is with the philosophy behind the design.

If you have to tell people how to play the game (beyond the basic paradigm of rules and mechanics), you have a fundamental problem with your game. Blaming the player is not only puerile, it’s completely moot. People play what they like, and will go play something else if they don’t like what you built.

Re. DE’s, they are a nice innovation, and perhaps the only nice innovation I can see in GW2. The cooperative nature of them is great, and leans the effort/reward gradient toward cooperation. The problem with DE’s is they are by their nature light and immediate, and so “shallow” gameplay. They are dip elements, and do not provide the deeper cooperation and goal setting that endgame requires and should reward. So, while good, they will never replace the other styles of play.

tolkien.6317:

I’m sorry, is the OP suggesting people are “playing the game wrong”? No offense, but that is a pompous game designer arrogance that has gained some traction recently e.g. Diablo 3. If people aren’t playing your game the way you wanted or expected them to (and they always will), the problem is with your design. Actually the problem is with the philosophy behind the design.

If you have to tell people how to play the game (beyond the basic paradigm of rules and mechanics), you have a fundamental problem with your game. Blaming the player is not only puerile, it’s completely moot. People play what they like, and will go play something else if they don’t like what you built.

Re. DE’s, they are a nice innovation, and perhaps the only nice innovation I can see in GW2. The cooperative nature of them is great, and leans the effort/reward gradient toward cooperation. The problem with DE’s is they are by their nature light and immediate, and so “shallow” gameplay. They are dip elements, and do not provide the deeper cooperation and goal setting that endgame requires and should reward. So, while good, they will never replace the other styles of play.

and they prove that everyday by stating there is no endgame when they choose not to go to the endgame.

I call it like I see it. So yes they are playing the game wrong

Like I said this is just plain sad

Krosslite.1950:

and they prove that everyday by stating there is no endgame when they choose not to go to the endgame.

I call it like I see it. So yes they are playing the game wrong

Like I said this is just plain sad

If the game isn’t leading people to the “endgame” by simple desire for what it provides, that’s the issue, not that people “don’t get it” and refuse to go there. That’s just silly talk.

The problem is with definition.

Dynamic implies change or variance. How much change or variance can you get while running the Plinx chain? There’s only so many outcomes, loot/reward is not scaled very well to difficulty, most DEs follow similar quest structures “hidden in the background”, etc.

While I hope it doesn’t end up like it, I see GW2 rapidly approaching collapse under its own hype, just like SWTOR. TOR was supposed to be the Second Coming for MMOs, but failed because it oversold a very limited mechanic, story. There’s only so much change and effect each player can have in an MMO, after which it becomes painfully obvious that your character’s story doesn’t matter in the slightest.

Other MMOs like WoW acknowledge this, and basically sell themselves as GUIs grafted onto a Pavlov’s Dog system of respondent conditioning. Push the button, get the treat as it were.

tolkien.6317:

Krosslite.1950:

and they prove that everyday by stating there is no endgame when they choose not to go to the endgame.

I call it like I see it. So yes they are playing the game wrong

Like I said this is just plain sad

If the game isn’t leading people to the “endgame” by simple desire for what it provides, that’s the issue, not that people “don’t get it” and refuse to go there. That’s just silly talk.

How post have you read people sating that IF this game had raiding they would play it?

So when I read “players’ focus in Orr will be on huge events……. putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game” I think raiding. Yet people don’t form raid groups and do these raids. So I am silly for seeing the fact that are staring me in the face.

It is the player-base that don’t do the end-game that are silly.

Again I call em like I see em.

Dynamic events are cookie cutters. It’s the same few high level concepts recycled and reskinned. After participating in hundreds of them, someone like me realizes they don’t get anymore interesting or challenging so I may as well just do the challenging or interesting content. Even then the content wasn’t enough to keep me in the game. The storylines kept me in for a bit, but ultimately I realized each person had one of a handful of stories. It’s also not easy to follow individual storylines, because you can only follow them by being a particular race then flowing into the main story line. Additionally a lot of the stories aren’t repeatable, which I found to be an issue.

Ultimately, in my opinion a game should be about two things. Stories and challenges. Both are there, but very limited. Filler content, like most of the Dynamic Events are, don’t have much value to me, I feel like they are just time wasters compared to an interesting story or unique challenge.

If Dynamic events were more crucial to storylines and following those storylines was simpler, they’d hold much more value. The idea of not having a clear linear path to follow for a story just to be different for the sake of being different and not adding value to that idea is a downside to Guild Wars 2. In RPGs, you deviate from the main storyline to experience a unique challenge or get a unique reward. You don’t deviate to experience generic filler content.

In summary my opinion is too much of the game is about experiencing large quantities of the same generic cookie cutter content. It’s better to spend time experiencing the unique content concepts or challenging content. The lack of a clear means to follow a storyline is detrimental to the user experience of Guild Wars 2 as is the lack or replayability. When encouraging players to deviate from a story or challenging content, they should be presented with challenging content or a unique content concept or a unique reward. I don’t think these opinions mean I have tunnel vision, I think there’s a formula for great games that involves story, unique content, challenging content, and rewards, and if ANet wants large amounts of DE’s to be part of that formula they need to do a better job of making those events fit the above.

Shockwave.1230:

Dynamic events are cookie cutters. It’s the same few high level concepts recycled and reskinned. After participating in hundreds of them, someone like me realizes they don’t get anymore interesting or challenging so I may as well just do the challenging or interesting content. Even then the content wasn’t enough to keep me in the game. The storylines kept me in for a bit, but ultimately I realized each person had one of a handful of stories. It’s also not easy to follow individual storylines, because you can only follow them by being a particular race then flowing into the main story line. Additionally a lot of the stories aren’t repeatable, which I found to be an issue.

Ultimately, in my opinion a game should be about two things. Stories and challenges. Both are there, but very limited. Filler content, like most of the Dynamic Events are, don’t have much value to me, I feel like they are just time wasters compared to an interesting story or unique challenge.

If Dynamic events were more crucial to storylines and following those storylines was simpler, they’d hold much more value. The idea of not having a clear linear path to follow for a story just to be different for the sake of being different and not adding value to that idea is a downside to Guild Wars 2. In RPGs, you deviate from the main storyline to experience a unique challenge or get a unique reward. You don’t deviate to experience generic filler content.

In summary my opinion is too much of the game is about experiencing large quantities of the same generic cookie cutter content. It’s better to spend time experiencing the unique content concepts or challenging content. The lack of a clear means to follow a storyline is detrimental to the user experience of Guild Wars 2 as is the lack or replayability. When encouraging players to deviate from a story or challenging content, they should be presented with challenging content or a unique content concept or a unique reward. I don’t think these opinions mean I have tunnel vision, I think there’s a formula for great games that involves story, unique content, challenging content, and rewards, and if ANet wants large amounts of DE’s to be part of that formula they need to do a better job of making those events fit the above.

“(Orr) Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we’ve seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game”

Krosslite.1950:

Shockwave.1230:

Dynamic events are cookie cutters. It’s the same few high level concepts recycled and reskinned. After participating in hundreds of them, someone like me realizes they don’t get anymore interesting or challenging so I may as well just do the challenging or interesting content. Even then the content wasn’t enough to keep me in the game. The storylines kept me in for a bit, but ultimately I realized each person had one of a handful of stories. It’s also not easy to follow individual storylines, because you can only follow them by being a particular race then flowing into the main story line. Additionally a lot of the stories aren’t repeatable, which I found to be an issue.

Ultimately, in my opinion a game should be about two things. Stories and challenges. Both are there, but very limited. Filler content, like most of the Dynamic Events are, don’t have much value to me, I feel like they are just time wasters compared to an interesting story or unique challenge.

If Dynamic events were more crucial to storylines and following those storylines was simpler, they’d hold much more value. The idea of not having a clear linear path to follow for a story just to be different for the sake of being different and not adding value to that idea is a downside to Guild Wars 2. In RPGs, you deviate from the main storyline to experience a unique challenge or get a unique reward. You don’t deviate to experience generic filler content.

In summary my opinion is too much of the game is about experiencing large quantities of the same generic cookie cutter content. It’s better to spend time experiencing the unique content concepts or challenging content. The lack of a clear means to follow a storyline is detrimental to the user experience of Guild Wars 2 as is the lack or replayability. When encouraging players to deviate from a story or challenging content, they should be presented with challenging content or a unique content concept or a unique reward. I don’t think these opinions mean I have tunnel vision, I think there’s a formula for great games that involves story, unique content, challenging content, and rewards, and if ANet wants large amounts of DE’s to be part of that formula they need to do a better job of making those events fit the above.

“(Orr) Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we’ve seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game”

Why do you feel this quote applies to the context of what I’ve previously stated?

Many people who -like- WoW came here to get a new WoW.

IMO a big mistake for them. And they’re more vocal than the rest of us, who are perfectly happy with the format here.

I -do- like WoW, but don’t want everything to be WoW. And I love this game too.

I would like to make a suggestion, if you feel so strongly about the lack of guilds specifically set up to do DE chains, how about….making one?
You know, recruit people solely for the purpose of doing those said DE chains. That way, you and your new guild could be the trailblazers and put the information up there yourselves.
Just a thought

Shockwave.1230:

Krosslite.1950:

Shockwave.1230:

Dynamic events are cookie cutters. It’s the same few high level concepts recycled and reskinned. After participating in hundreds of them, someone like me realizes they don’t get anymore interesting or challenging so I may as well just do the challenging or interesting content. Even then the content wasn’t enough to keep me in the game. The storylines kept me in for a bit, but ultimately I realized each person had one of a handful of stories. It’s also not easy to follow individual storylines, because you can only follow them by being a particular race then flowing into the main story line. Additionally a lot of the stories aren’t repeatable, which I found to be an issue.

Ultimately, in my opinion a game should be about two things. Stories and challenges. Both are there, but very limited. Filler content, like most of the Dynamic Events are, don’t have much value to me, I feel like they are just time wasters compared to an interesting story or unique challenge.

If Dynamic events were more crucial to storylines and following those storylines was simpler, they’d hold much more value. The idea of not having a clear linear path to follow for a story just to be different for the sake of being different and not adding value to that idea is a downside to Guild Wars 2. In RPGs, you deviate from the main storyline to experience a unique challenge or get a unique reward. You don’t deviate to experience generic filler content.

In summary my opinion is too much of the game is about experiencing large quantities of the same generic cookie cutter content. It’s better to spend time experiencing the unique content concepts or challenging content. The lack of a clear means to follow a storyline is detrimental to the user experience of Guild Wars 2 as is the lack or replayability. When encouraging players to deviate from a story or challenging content, they should be presented with challenging content or a unique content concept or a unique reward. I don’t think these opinions mean I have tunnel vision, I think there’s a formula for great games that involves story, unique content, challenging content, and rewards, and if ANet wants large amounts of DE’s to be part of that formula they need to do a better job of making those events fit the above.

“(Orr) Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we’ve seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game”

Why do you feel this quote applies to the context of what I’ve previously stated?

Simply showing that your statement was moot since the DEs in Orr are crucial to the storyline. If you didn’t see that or still don’t you have made yourself ignore documented facts that state you are incorrect

Vas.7306:

I would like to make a suggestion, if you feel so strongly about the lack of guilds specifically set up to do DE chains, how about….making one?
You know, recruit people solely for the purpose of doing those said DE chains. That way, you and your new guild could be the trailblazers and put the information up there yourselves.
Just a thought

If I had the time for a 2nd job that doesn’t pay I would, but I don’t.
Would I join an established guild with a dedicated officer to pursue the points I have stated I would do so in a heart beat and willing give what little time I have to support my statement.
Mainly due to the fact that I have given hard evidence from Anet and still people blow it off as a falsehood I will most likely continue to do what I have been doing since December.
Are you in a guild?
Would your guild step forward to put these fact to the test?
That is what I am asking. Per Anet it will take a combined effort that most be support 24/7 by multiple guilds most likely, but can we prove that statement without at least 1 guild to step forward and do?
Will I join this guild and help them? Most definitely.

Krosslite.1950:

“There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones”

That means that three orrian zones have the equivalent of about six non-orrian ones in DE’s, not that most of DE’s are in Orr. As there are a bit more than nine zones in this game, there are way more non-orrian DE’s than Orrian ones, in fact.
And i believe i have done most of them (not all – i can still find a new event from time to time, but it’s becoming really rare occurence now). Most of them are not worth doing – and it’s even more true for orrian ones. These are quite often both boring and irritating, without good rewards, with quite a number of them still at least partially broken.

Also, while indeed originally devs claimed that de’s will be the core of the game, introduction, middle and endgame rolled into one, that attitude didn’t last. It certainly doesn’t seem to be present in the game anymore nowadays.

Astralporing.1957:

Krosslite.1950:

“There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones”

That means that three orrian zones have the equivalent of about six non-orrian ones in DE’s, not that most of DE’s are in Orr. As there are a bit more than nine zones in this game, there are way more non-orrian DE’s than Orrian ones, in fact.
And i believe i have done most of them (not all – i can still find a new event from time to time, but it’s becoming really rare occurence now). Most of them are not worth doing – and it’s even more true for orrian ones. These are quite often both boring and irritating, without good rewards, with quite a number of them still at least partially broken.

Also, while indeed originally devs claimed that de’s will be the core of the game, introduction, middle and endgame rolled into one, that attitude didn’t last. It certainly doesn’t seem to be present in the game anymore nowadays.

Thank you Astral. I hear what you are saying and acknowledge it as the first tangible evidence of an effort I have read in the entire forums.

May I ask you this. Since Anet stated it would require large numbers of people to do these correctly. Did you have a large enough group with you that could trigger the rewards?

People in general will always play the game based around its design. It doesn’t matter what the developers intend if the game mechanics contradict it. This is what has happened with dynamic events and its silly to blame the players for it. Game design is much like math in this way; whatever you put in the game is going to have a predictable outcome and it’s the developer’s responsibility to ensure the outcome meets their intent, not the players.

As for the issues with dynamic events, their rewards, repetitive nature, and no true impact on the game world are the primary causes.

When dynamic events show up out of nowhere, are completed in just a few minutes without having any real impact on the game world, then pop up again in another 10-30 minutes, there is little satisfaction and it creates a very repetitive feel. It’s simply no fun running around a game world you’ve already explored, looking for simple and uninteresting events to complete which have no true impact on the game world.

Then we have the rewards. 2 silver, some karma, and a bit of experience along with whatever you got from kills. It just isn’t enough unless you are farming an area like Orr

This is of course speaking of dynamic events in general. There are exceptions such as temple events and dragons, but for the most part dynamic events aren’t designed well for anything past exploring an area for the first time and leveling up.

Krosslite.1950:

Shockwave.1230:

Krosslite.1950:

Shockwave.1230:

Dynamic events are cookie cutters. It’s the same few high level concepts recycled and reskinned. After participating in hundreds of them, someone like me realizes they don’t get anymore interesting or challenging so I may as well just do the challenging or interesting content. Even then the content wasn’t enough to keep me in the game. The storylines kept me in for a bit, but ultimately I realized each person had one of a handful of stories. It’s also not easy to follow individual storylines, because you can only follow them by being a particular race then flowing into the main story line. Additionally a lot of the stories aren’t repeatable, which I found to be an issue.

Ultimately, in my opinion a game should be about two things. Stories and challenges. Both are there, but very limited. Filler content, like most of the Dynamic Events are, don’t have much value to me, I feel like they are just time wasters compared to an interesting story or unique challenge.

If Dynamic events were more crucial to storylines and following those storylines was simpler, they’d hold much more value. The idea of not having a clear linear path to follow for a story just to be different for the sake of being different and not adding value to that idea is a downside to Guild Wars 2. In RPGs, you deviate from the main storyline to experience a unique challenge or get a unique reward. You don’t deviate to experience generic filler content.

In summary my opinion is too much of the game is about experiencing large quantities of the same generic cookie cutter content. It’s better to spend time experiencing the unique content concepts or challenging content. The lack of a clear means to follow a storyline is detrimental to the user experience of Guild Wars 2 as is the lack or replayability. When encouraging players to deviate from a story or challenging content, they should be presented with challenging content or a unique content concept or a unique reward. I don’t think these opinions mean I have tunnel vision, I think there’s a formula for great games that involves story, unique content, challenging content, and rewards, and if ANet wants large amounts of DE’s to be part of that formula they need to do a better job of making those events fit the above.

“(Orr) Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we’ve seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game”

Why do you feel this quote applies to the context of what I’ve previously stated?

Simply showing that your statement was moot since the DEs in Orr are crucial to the storyline. If you didn’t see that or still don’t you have made yourself ignore documented facts that state you are incorrect

The quote does not show that the above statements are moot, it in fact hardly relates to the statements at all.

no tnx krosslite. you dont work for anet, i dont know you, and i dont take too kindly to people like any other nub who decide their 2 cents is really worth a quarter.

what i personally enjoy the most are chain events. they are story driven and i like to hang out to see what npc’s are gonna do next. it doesn’t matter it event spowned (DE) or if i start it by talking to npc. if it will lead somewhere it is great fun for me. unfortunately there are a lot of “single event” events and not enough chain events for my taste.

again, for me it doesn’t really matter if event starts randomly or if i need to talk to npc to start it as long as it leads somewhere. once event is started i feel like going with the npc and doing what needs to be done to finish it. so this is the feeling that needs to be maintained. each time event is done it’s anticlimax for me. so, once anet decided to put chain events in game it just spoiled “single events” for me.

when i finish event and realize it won’t continue, it just feels like a waste of time.

make more and longer chain events please. if possible completely remove “single events” and make the map having 3-5 BIG ones that will lead the players through the whole map. there is a good basis for that in scouts. they give a little story to parts of the map. if events would do that it would be SO much more immersive.

Shockwave.1230:

Krosslite.1950:

Shockwave.1230:

Krosslite.1950:

Shockwave.1230:

Dynamic events are cookie cutters. It’s the same few high level concepts recycled and reskinned. After participating in hundreds of them, someone like me realizes they don’t get anymore interesting or challenging so I may as well just do the challenging or interesting content. Even then the content wasn’t enough to keep me in the game. The storylines kept me in for a bit, but ultimately I realized each person had one of a handful of stories. It’s also not easy to follow individual storylines, because you can only follow them by being a particular race then flowing into the main story line. Additionally a lot of the stories aren’t repeatable, which I found to be an issue.

Ultimately, in my opinion a game should be about two things. Stories and challenges. Both are there, but very limited. Filler content, like most of the Dynamic Events are, don’t have much value to me, I feel like they are just time wasters compared to an interesting story or unique challenge.

If Dynamic events were more crucial to storylines and following those storylines was simpler, they’d hold much more value. The idea of not having a clear linear path to follow for a story just to be different for the sake of being different and not adding value to that idea is a downside to Guild Wars 2. In RPGs, you deviate from the main storyline to experience a unique challenge or get a unique reward. You don’t deviate to experience generic filler content.

In summary my opinion is too much of the game is about experiencing large quantities of the same generic cookie cutter content. It’s better to spend time experiencing the unique content concepts or challenging content. The lack of a clear means to follow a storyline is detrimental to the user experience of Guild Wars 2 as is the lack or replayability. When encouraging players to deviate from a story or challenging content, they should be presented with challenging content or a unique content concept or a unique reward. I don’t think these opinions mean I have tunnel vision, I think there’s a formula for great games that involves story, unique content, challenging content, and rewards, and if ANet wants large amounts of DE’s to be part of that formula they need to do a better job of making those events fit the above.

“(Orr) Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we’ve seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game”

Why do you feel this quote applies to the context of what I’ve previously stated?

Simply showing that your statement was moot since the DEs in Orr are crucial to the storyline. If you didn’t see that or still don’t you have made yourself ignore documented facts that state you are incorrect

The quote does not show that the above statements are moot, it in fact hardly relates to the statements at all.

thus the name of the thread… Tunnel vision

keelaunaw.3285:

no tnx krosslite. you dont work for anet, i dont know you, and i dont take too kindly to people like any other nub who decide their 2 cents is really worth a quarter.

That’s fine keelaunaw.

At least I feel I am making an effort. If no one attempts too, then nothing at all will get accomplished.

Krosslite.1950:

Astralporing.1957:

Krosslite.1950:

“There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones”

That means that three orrian zones have the equivalent of about six non-orrian ones in DE’s, not that most of DE’s are in Orr. As there are a bit more than nine zones in this game, there are way more non-orrian DE’s than Orrian ones, in fact.
And i believe i have done most of them (not all – i can still find a new event from time to time, but it’s becoming really rare occurence now). Most of them are not worth doing – and it’s even more true for orrian ones. These are quite often both boring and irritating, without good rewards, with quite a number of them still at least partially broken.

Also, while indeed originally devs claimed that de’s will be the core of the game, introduction, middle and endgame rolled into one, that attitude didn’t last. It certainly doesn’t seem to be present in the game anymore nowadays.

Thank you Astral. I hear what you are saying and acknowledge it as the first tangible evidence of an effort I have read in the entire forums.

May I ask you this. Since Anet stated it would require large numbers of people to do these correctly. Did you have a large enough group with you that could trigger the rewards?

Depends. Most of DE’s in game can be soloed. For events that give chests you can usually find other people to help – in case of the more obscure ones all that you need is shout, and someone will come for sure (and too many people can often make it harder – for example in case of some of the temple events, or fire ele before it got changed). On the other hand it was much easier in the first 2-3 months of the game – then you really didn’t have to worry about people, there always was someone around, no matter where you went. Today it gets much harder – though i have no idea if it’s because there are less people in general, or because they all sit in dungeons or on well-known chest events and farming spots. Or both.

“As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a Hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing. The boss you just killed respawns 10 minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”

Sums it up perfectly. Is boring, repetitive and, did I mention boring and repetitive?

Because so many end game equipment require dungeon tokens. Up to this point, it is safe to say that they are better than crafted ones. Noble rune set, for example, is arguably the best magic find rune set there currently is, and it can only be acquired through CM. This goes the same for back items – ALL ascended back items require at least one ingredient that can only be acquired through dungeons. In comparison, the open world available best back item is the personal story reward and Wayfarer can hardly compare to the ascended counterparts (not to mention better aesthetics)

Though its good that laurels now give another option for acquiring ascended items for amulets, rings and acc without doing dungeons, but a flat average rate of 1.33 laurels per day acquisition is downright limiting compared to dungeon tokens.

Gold farming in Curshed Shore DE’s is still the best farm rate at about 3-5 gold per hour, but what exactly can you get with gold? Most of the ‘coolest’ items in game are account/soulbound and cannot be traded in TP.

As I see, these are the main reasons why people would rather do dungeons. Or rather, “feel forced” to do dungeons.

My main lament with dungeons, however, is that difficulty do not scale, and almost always require a party to complete efficiently. Forcing people to play with others make sense in WvW, but why should I not have the option of going through a dungeon by myself?

Krosslite.1950:

Above are all quotes from Arenanet.
In essence: doing DEs ARE the core of this game.
Fractal, sPvP, WvW, Dungeons are only a forth of this game, but still most everyone is focused on these instead of the rest of the game.
This has to change and it is not Anet that has to make these changes. It is the players themselves. Still they focus on old MMORPG models and do not see that this game is not them. It is its own game. That has it own challenges that they ignore daily.
As I have stated before with 26 zones of DEs mostly untouched by the player community it is sad to see them crying for the old ways instead of even making a effort to try the new way.
Please read and follow the suggestion I posted in the thread below and see how things can become different as they should be (btw I did name that thread the name it has.. an Anet employee gave it that name)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-call-to-action-emergent-play-getting-the-most-out-of-GW2/first#post1842894

If you tell a person that they could work one of two jobs- both jobs are relatively interesting, but one will pay minimum wage while the other pays $100 an hour… which do you think they will do?

Instances are being farmed because Arenanet built them to not only be easily farmable, but to give far better loot than the rest of the game. Blaming players for Anet’s decision to funnel the entire playbase into 1 tiny portion of the game isn’t quite appropriate. Why would folks do something unrewarding if they have a rewarding path also available to them… and one that is far easier to accomplish in less time?

Tolmos.8395:

Krosslite.1950:

Above are all quotes from Arenanet.
In essence: doing DEs ARE the core of this game.
Fractal, sPvP, WvW, Dungeons are only a forth of this game, but still most everyone is focused on these instead of the rest of the game.
This has to change and it is not Anet that has to make these changes. It is the players themselves. Still they focus on old MMORPG models and do not see that this game is not them. It is its own game. That has it own challenges that they ignore daily.
As I have stated before with 26 zones of DEs mostly untouched by the player community it is sad to see them crying for the old ways instead of even making a effort to try the new way.
Please read and follow the suggestion I posted in the thread below and see how things can become different as they should be (btw I did name that thread the name it has.. an Anet employee gave it that name)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-call-to-action-emergent-play-getting-the-most-out-of-GW2/first#post1842894

If you tell a person that they could work one of two jobs- both jobs are relatively interesting, but one will pay minimum wage while the other pays $100 an hour… which do you think they will do?

Instances are being farmed because Arenanet built them to not only be easily farmable, but to give far better loot than the rest of the game. Blaming players for Anet’s decision to funnel the entire playbase into 1 tiny portion of the game isn’t quite appropriate. Why would folks do something unrewarding if they have a rewarding path also available to them… and one that is far easier to accomplish in less time?

What if I told you there will always be an easiest dungeon?

Chopps.5047:

Tolmos.8395:

Krosslite.1950:

Above are all quotes from Arenanet.
In essence: doing DEs ARE the core of this game.
Fractal, sPvP, WvW, Dungeons are only a forth of this game, but still most everyone is focused on these instead of the rest of the game.
This has to change and it is not Anet that has to make these changes. It is the players themselves. Still they focus on old MMORPG models and do not see that this game is not them. It is its own game. That has it own challenges that they ignore daily.
As I have stated before with 26 zones of DEs mostly untouched by the player community it is sad to see them crying for the old ways instead of even making a effort to try the new way.
Please read and follow the suggestion I posted in the thread below and see how things can become different as they should be (btw I did name that thread the name it has.. an Anet employee gave it that name)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-call-to-action-emergent-play-getting-the-most-out-of-GW2/first#post1842894

If you tell a person that they could work one of two jobs- both jobs are relatively interesting, but one will pay minimum wage while the other pays $100 an hour… which do you think they will do?

Instances are being farmed because Arenanet built them to not only be easily farmable, but to give far better loot than the rest of the game. Blaming players for Anet’s decision to funnel the entire playbase into 1 tiny portion of the game isn’t quite appropriate. Why would folks do something unrewarding if they have a rewarding path also available to them… and one that is far easier to accomplish in less time?

What if I told you there will always be an easiest dungeon?

As compared to other dungeons, that’s fine by me. As compared to the ENTIRE GAME? Then I’d tell you that Anet is doing something desperately wrong, or intending to funnel us into 1 tiny portion of their game forever.

Actually Krosslite is quite right with this thread.

But what he and ANet just don´t seem to understand is why the heck don´t people follow their nicely laid out yellow brick road?

I´m often the first one to to start of an event chain and quickly find a couple of people joining me, after I watched the kitten yellow asterisk waiting alone for minutes on the map.

So where´s the problem exactly?

Nick.6972:

“As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a Hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing. The boss you just killed respawns 10 minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”

Sums it up perfectly. Is boring, repetitive and, did I mention boring and repetitive?

She was talking about the personal story. You know, the one that doesn’t happen for everyone and doesn’t exist in most MMOs.

In the manifesto, Colin was talking about DEs and Ree was talking about personal story. Know how I know? Because people were confused when it came out and Anet posted a clarification stating this shortly after the manifesto was released.

And since she was talking about the personal story, the quote is completely valid. In other words, what you’re trying to say with it isn’t actually apropos.

Astralporing.1957:

Krosslite.1950:

Astralporing.1957:

Krosslite.1950:

“There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones”

That means that three orrian zones have the equivalent of about six non-orrian ones in DE’s, not that most of DE’s are in Orr. As there are a bit more than nine zones in this game, there are way more non-orrian DE’s than Orrian ones, in fact.
And i believe i have done most of them (not all – i can still find a new event from time to time, but it’s becoming really rare occurence now). Most of them are not worth doing – and it’s even more true for orrian ones. These are quite often both boring and irritating, without good rewards, with quite a number of them still at least partially broken.

Also, while indeed originally devs claimed that de’s will be the core of the game, introduction, middle and endgame rolled into one, that attitude didn’t last. It certainly doesn’t seem to be present in the game anymore nowadays.

Thank you Astral. I hear what you are saying and acknowledge it as the first tangible evidence of an effort I have read in the entire forums.

May I ask you this. Since Anet stated it would require large numbers of people to do these correctly. Did you have a large enough group with you that could trigger the rewards?

Depends. Most of DE’s in game can be soloed. For events that give chests you can usually find other people to help – in case of the more obscure ones all that you need is shout, and someone will come for sure (and too many people can often make it harder – for example in case of some of the temple events, or fire ele before it got changed). On the other hand it was much easier in the first 2-3 months of the game – then you really didn’t have to worry about people, there always was someone around, no matter where you went. Today it gets much harder – though i have no idea if it’s because there are less people in general, or because they all sit in dungeons or on well-known chest events and farming spots. Or both.

I think it is the last statement you made.
It is funny that a game that is suppose to be community driven acts like it should be driven by those who make the game.
Since 2010 they have said the community is the key to this game yet the community we have is a non-community. Sad

HawkMeister.4758:

Actually Krosslite is quite right with this thread.

But what he and ANet just don´t seem to understand is why the heck don´t people follow their nicely laid out yellow brick road?

I´m often the first one to to start of an event chain and quickly find a couple of people joining me, after I watched the kitten yellow asterisk waiting alone for minutes on the map.

So where´s the problem exactly?

What really gets me Hawk is that the yellow brick road goes beyond the temples. Passed the wizard you may say and after the wicked witch of the west.

I feel folks are to scared they will not have a bucket of water at the end to kill the witch (meaning really nice goodies)

But how do we know. Has a large enough group attempted to do this since per Anet the webs beyond the temples will require large numbers.

I for one will be glad to join the party, but I am just one and Anet has said you need way more then one or five or even ten

Kaleban.9834:

The problem is with definition.

Dynamic implies change or variance. How much change or variance can you get while running the Plinx chain? There’s only so many outcomes, loot/reward is not scaled very well to difficulty, most DEs follow similar quest structures “hidden in the background”, etc.

While I hope it doesn’t end up like it, I see GW2 rapidly approaching collapse under its own hype, just like SWTOR. TOR was supposed to be the Second Coming for MMOs, but failed because it oversold a very limited mechanic, story. There’s only so much change and effect each player can have in an MMO, after which it becomes painfully obvious that your character’s story doesn’t matter in the slightest.

Other MMOs like WoW acknowledge this, and basically sell themselves as GUIs grafted onto a Pavlov’s Dog system of respondent conditioning. Push the button, get the treat as it were.

Agreed. I think most people think that dynamic events, as a general term, is good for MMO’s. However Dynamic Events in GW2 are a complete misnomer; they are scripted events with a few different outcomes. GW2’s big innovation is to remove player limits for these quests, making them super accessible for all players. OP’s suggestion that players should be more focused on DE’s is wrong: GW2’s scripted quests are not superior to scripted quests in other games. To make an event “dynamic”, you need player interaction, and the only place where this really occurs is WvW.

Czar Peter.7961:

Kaleban.9834:

The problem is with definition.

Dynamic implies change or variance. How much change or variance can you get while running the Plinx chain? There’s only so many outcomes, loot/reward is not scaled very well to difficulty, most DEs follow similar quest structures “hidden in the background”, etc.

While I hope it doesn’t end up like it, I see GW2 rapidly approaching collapse under its own hype, just like SWTOR. TOR was supposed to be the Second Coming for MMOs, but failed because it oversold a very limited mechanic, story. There’s only so much change and effect each player can have in an MMO, after which it becomes painfully obvious that your character’s story doesn’t matter in the slightest.

Other MMOs like WoW acknowledge this, and basically sell themselves as GUIs grafted onto a Pavlov’s Dog system of respondent conditioning. Push the button, get the treat as it were.

Agreed. I think most people think that dynamic events, as a general term, is good for MMO’s. However Dynamic Events in GW2 are a complete misnomer; they are scripted events with a few different outcomes. GW2’s big innovation is to remove player limits for these quests, making them super accessible for all players. OP’s suggestion that players should be more focused on DE’s is wrong: GW2’s scripted quests are not superior to scripted quests in other games. To make an event “dynamic”, you need player interaction, and the only place where this really occurs is WvW.

In which case you will need a player trigger in addition to a timer. The way traffic lights still change every x minutes even if nobody is waiting. They have sort of implemented that with the big chest events except with a minimal timer plus trigger.

People would probably do more DEs if they weren’t always zerged without tactics. Almost all content in this game can be zerged without thought. This is why people do dungeons instead, because it’s slightly more challenging.

When was the last time you failed a dragon boss? Exactly.

Once I finish my desired grindy legendary that others got within 3 months of gameplay in whatever methods, I will enjoy the DE’s. Write it down please, thanks.

If they made DEs challenging (fun?) and at least as rewarding as CoF (for example) this thread would not exist.