Guild Wars 2

It has come to my attention that some players participating in large scale events are having issues learning the fight while others don’t understand the importance of WPing when they die. While the first can be remedied by asking for advice or teaching players prior to the main event, the other is more difficult to remedy because players want to avoid “the walk of shame” from a nearby waypoint.

I think this could be a tool used to kinda push players to understand the mechanics better.

So… would having those who die during a boss event automatically WP after 10 total seconds of no ressing be a good way to encourage players to know the fight better?

EDIT: Free WP if dead timer hits 0.

I don’t think embarrassment is a particularly strong motivation not to WP when dead. You’re a lot more conspicuous lying dead right in front of everyone else, than you are running back.

As for the rest: see the other threads with similar suggestions for discussion on both sides.

lol like world bosses were hard or something

They don’t want to avoid “the walk of shame” they just don’t want to bother. Being dead is like placing a big “bad player” sign on top of you – the dunce cap of failure – which is worse.

The problem is, why waypoint? Regardless of what you do, you will still be rewarded as if you were the best player there. Why go to the trouble of running back when someone else will happily revive you at the end. As long as the event is successful and you got a few hits in, you might as well AFK the rest since you will be rewarded regardless. Being forcibly waypointed wouldn’t really change anything, except now that player can’t be used as a meat shield.

The problem is that wping costs coins and you can’t just automatically take coins from the players. I think a better solution would be to have a respawn-area for such events and after 10 seconds they are automatically respawned there without any costs. Also when they die there should be a big button on the center of their screen for skipping the 10 seconds and respawning there without costs or delay.

They could add a timer like in wvw. After some time dead you teleport to the nearest waypoint.

I would like to see forced wp after 1 min of not being rezzed at cost with an addendum. If you are forced to wp you are shunted to another shard and lose credit for participating in the event. This would solve the tag and afk mentality of a lot of these event farmers who leech off the population actually trying to complete it.

Speaking specifically about Tequatl, if you just go AFK after tagging Tequatl for event participation in the first round, you’re going to miss out on the battery defense events, which means missing out on additional loot. Splitting up an event into sub-events like that seems like a pretty clever solution.

I don’t see a need to automatically respawn people to other areas, though. (And, hey, at least people lying dead on the battle field aren’t running through turrets?)

eithinan.9841:

I would like to see forced wp after 1 min of not being rezzed at cost with an addendum. If you are forced to wp you are shunted to another shard and lose credit for participating in the event. This would solve the tag and afk mentality of a lot of these event farmers who leech off the population actually trying to complete it.

This would also greatly discourage new players learning an event like Tequatl where they might die, or punish a player who has a perfect round and dies unfortunately. People would shy away from doing parts of the world boss where they might die. Like doing melee in the first phase of Tequatl, usually someone inexperienced or who becomes distracted for a moment or has some lag dies to a combination of knockdown and poison. Stripping rewards because of a small mistake when they might be doing well otherwise would punish real players who are not leeching. I don’t think it is a good solution if it may punish players who are participating legitimately or learning the fight.

eithinan.9841:

I would like to see forced wp after 1 min of not being rezzed at cost with an addendum. If you are forced to wp you are shunted to another shard and lose credit for participating in the event. This would solve the tag and afk mentality of a lot of these event farmers who leech off the population actually trying to complete it.

This idea is utter rubbish and I’m not sure you should be allowed to play with others with a viciously punitive attitude like that.

I’d be fine with auto-WP as long as it was free. As another poster mentioned, the issue is that, at this point, it costs coin to WP. I guarantee that’s why 90% of dead players just lay there. I mean, I did the Vinewrath fight last night and was killed 3 times, and used the WP and ran back, which cost me quite a few silvers. But by the end of the fight (which failed), there so many players laying there dead… there was no way that was going to succeed. I have no issues ressing downed players who are not fully dead. But it’s a total waste of my time, and will get me killed too, to res you if you’re all dead. I think if it were free though, there still may be a FEW players who will still lay there, but not nearly as many.

I don’t want free WP-ing all over Tyria. Just free in certain cases; for world bosses only perhaps.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I’d be fine with auto-WP as long as it was free. As another poster mentioned, the issue is that, at this point, it costs coin to WP. I guarantee that’s why 90% of dead players just lay there.

I strongly disagree that this is the reason why most of those players don’t waypoint. I think it’s more that they just don’t want to take the time to run back. It’s also partially the fact that they’re trained by the game to think they’re going to miss out on their loot if the event ends before they’ve run back and gotten back in the fight. And then there’s that population of the game who still believes that waypointing risks you getting placed on another instance.

hazenvirus.8154:

eithinan.9841:

I would like to see forced wp after 1 min of not being rezzed at cost with an addendum. If you are forced to wp you are shunted to another shard and lose credit for participating in the event. This would solve the tag and afk mentality of a lot of these event farmers who leech off the population actually trying to complete it.

This would also greatly discourage new players learning an event like Tequatl where they might die, or punish a player who has a perfect round and dies unfortunately. People would shy away from doing parts of the world boss where they might die. Like doing melee in the first phase of Tequatl, usually someone inexperienced or who becomes distracted for a moment or has some lag dies to a combination of knockdown and poison. Stripping rewards because of a small mistake when they might be doing well otherwise would punish real players who are not leeching. I don’t think it is a good solution if it may punish players who are participating legitimately or learning the fight.

naiasonod.9265:

This idea is utter rubbish and I’m not sure you should be allowed to play with others with a viciously punitive attitude like that.

If people are really participating then that 1 min timer would be plenty of time for them to wp and run back. In fact it takes less than 1 min to run from the main camp wp to the VW area. Otherwise you are simply leeching. There is no punitive issue at stake here for dying. It is simply for not using a wp and actually helping with the success of the event after one has gone fully down.

As I said in the previous post, this would solve the “tag the event and go afk” problem that has become overwhelming with the large amount of farmers who do the bare minimum to get rewards off the backs of people actually trying to succeed. This would also help solve the issue of people just going afk near the lanes and alt tabbing while others fill the completion bar if they get killed.

@hazenvirus.8154: To be clear to you, this isnt a punishment for going fully down, I die at teq in the zerg unless Im on my guardian all the time. I certainly do not want to miss out on rewards, but I dont want to take people away from the dps they need to do during that first phase while rezzing me, so I wp if I die, like everyone should.

@naiasonod.9265: that was needlessly mean. With an attitude like that I am surprised you have any friends. I am going to assume I touched a nerve there mentioning tagging and going AFK. Something you do a lot?

RoseofGilead.8907:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I’d be fine with auto-WP as long as it was free. As another poster mentioned, the issue is that, at this point, it costs coin to WP. I guarantee that’s why 90% of dead players just lay there.

I strongly disagree that this is the reason why most of those players don’t waypoint. I think it’s more that they just don’t want to take the time to run back. It’s also partially the fact that they’re trained by the game to think they’re going to miss out on their loot if the event ends before they’ve run back and gotten back in the fight. And then there’s that population of the game who still believes that waypointing risks you getting placed on another instance.

It’s also possible that players feel that because PvE is considered cooperative play, and all players have the ability to rez even during combat, that the game is encouraging the wait for resurrection instead of the costlier waypoint/run back scenario.

eithinan.9841:

I would like to see forced wp after 1 min of not being rezzed at cost with an addendum. If you are forced to wp you are shunted to another shard and lose credit for participating in the event. This would solve the tag and afk mentality of a lot of these event farmers who leech off the population actually trying to complete it.

I like this idea. I usually run the South Hills or South boat, and I always announce to party first priority is to train mobs onto the afk players right away, no tequatl burn for them unless they WP and run back.

My bow has plenty of pk’s in this PvE environment.

I must admit that I wouldnt mind something being implemented to discourage/prevent people from just lying there scaling an event up, making it more difficult/increasing likelihood of failire for those actually participating. I dont see this behavior as significantly different from any other form of griefing intended to make content unplayable or more likely to fail.

Lynne.8416:

RoseofGilead.8907:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I’d be fine with auto-WP as long as it was free. As another poster mentioned, the issue is that, at this point, it costs coin to WP. I guarantee that’s why 90% of dead players just lay there.

I strongly disagree that this is the reason why most of those players don’t waypoint. I think it’s more that they just don’t want to take the time to run back. It’s also partially the fact that they’re trained by the game to think they’re going to miss out on their loot if the event ends before they’ve run back and gotten back in the fight. And then there’s that population of the game who still believes that waypointing risks you getting placed on another instance.

It’s also possible that players feel that because PvE is considered cooperative play, and all players have the ability to rez even during combat, that the game is encouraging the wait for resurrection instead of the costlier waypoint/run back scenario.

Doesn’t it cost like, 1.3 silver to waypoint after Tequatl? it only starts costing up to 4s when you are waypointing across the world. I realize not everybody has hundreds of gold sitting around, but come on, thats 1/3rd of a single tree.

Rezzing from fully dead takes significantly longer and especially during Tequatl is generally impractical. You not only take 3 people out of the fight for a solid 10-15 seconds, but the downed person can get hit by a circle too.

Wetpaw.3487:

eithinan.9841:

I would like to see forced wp after 1 min of not being rezzed at cost with an addendum. If you are forced to wp you are shunted to another shard and lose credit for participating in the event. This would solve the tag and afk mentality of a lot of these event farmers who leech off the population actually trying to complete it.

I like this idea. I usually run the South Hills or South boat, and I always announce to party first priority is to train mobs onto the afk players right away, no tequatl burn for them unless they WP and run back.

My bow has plenty of pk’s in this PvE environment.

I think I did south hills with you during some PUG run because I remember this happening exactly as you describe. I would also be lying if that didnt help plant the seed of what I suggested.

How about asking for a report option for leeching?

In SW for Vinewrath I can verify it woulmd take WAY less time to WP and run to South channel than to lay there for the whole fight. I was fighting at the South lane. People just lay there for eons until until is down. That just makes no sense if it’s about time running back. Ergo I must assume it has to do with them being cheap :p

eithinan.9841:

I would like to see forced wp after 1 min of not being rezzed at cost with an addendum. If you are forced to wp you are shunted to another shard and lose credit for participating in the event. This would solve the tag and afk mentality of a lot of these event farmers who leech off the population actually trying to complete it.

This seems fair to me, 1 minute plus however long it took your character to go down is plenty of time to react (by asking for help or wping) unless you are flat out afk.

Jabronius.8674:

How about asking for a report option for leeching?

There are already way too many reports to sift through for serious offenses. People being lazy or unaware of the problem they’re causing isn’t worth the time to review imo.

I just make it a point to declare that during Tequatl, Silverwastes, etc. People should not be ressing the fulling dead and that the dead should WP and get back.

I’ve gotten precisely one abusive message for this. It’s not the walk of shame that people want to avoid, it’s missing out on the loot. For some reason, people think that if they die and are running back to the event, they’ll miss out on the loot if they don’t get back in time

On the subject of loot…..

PSA: you get loot even if you are not in the area if the event completes.

I will often use blue as a home base and run to red or blue(usually) if they need help. I have often gotten rewards from the bull I may or may not have tagged on the way, or from a defend event at indigo that completed successfully, that I was unneeded at. The real thing to remember is if the event fails there is no loot.

What about players like me, who most often die entirely due to either repeated/constant CC on me (knockdown, launch, knockdown, stun, death) . . . or picking people who went down (but not dead) up and making it impossible to dodge a hit? I assume we should likewise be punished for bad luck or choosing to be helpful instead of focusing on the event?

Here’s my rebuttal to the idea of needing forced WP relocation. Stop letting dead players scale up an event.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

What about players like me, who most often die entirely due to either repeated/constant CC on me (knockdown, launch, knockdown, stun, death) . . . or picking people who went down (but not dead) up and making it impossible to dodge a hit? I assume we should likewise be punished for bad luck or choosing to be helpful instead of focusing on the event?

Here’s my rebuttal to the idea of needing forced WP relocation. Stop letting dead players scale up an event.

I am not sure that I understand the point there. Don’t you want to get back into the event after youve been killed ? Why wouldnt you WP and run back to the fight ?

naiasonod.9265:

This idea is utter rubbish and I’m not sure you should be allowed to play with others with a viciously punitive attitude like that.

AFK leechers (perhaps you are one of them given your unnecessarily strong reaction) and the current tagging system that emphasizes quantity over quality are the reason this game can’t get new content that isn’t a massive loot pinata.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

What about players like me, who most often die entirely due to either repeated/constant CC on me (knockdown, launch, knockdown, stun, death) . . . or picking people who went down (but not dead) up and making it impossible to dodge a hit? I assume we should likewise be punished for bad luck or choosing to be helpful instead of focusing on the event?

Here’s my rebuttal to the idea of needing forced WP relocation. Stop letting dead players scale up an event.

As far as we know, according to past Dev statements, the dead do not scale up events. This seems to be misinformation that is commonly accepted. I’m not sure why.

What if, at world boss events, some NPC would throw up a “temporary waypoint” right before it starts? That way, you have to be there to tag the waypoint to use it, so there’s no just jumping right to the fight if it’s in a more remote location. But it also allows you to get right back into the action if you’re willing to pay the WP fees.

After the event, the waypoint is taken down or breaks, so you have to re-tag it if you want to use it the next time.

I know some people don’t WP due to the costs, but I often find myself wondering “can I make it back in time if I WP?” I worry that I won’t, and miss out on the reward I was trying so hard for. Yes, in most places that’s not really an issue, but in some the nearest WP is far enough away that I do worry, especially if the fight is nearly over.

Ashen.2907:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

What about players like me, who most often die entirely due to either repeated/constant CC on me (knockdown, launch, knockdown, stun, death) . . . or picking people who went down (but not dead) up and making it impossible to dodge a hit? I assume we should likewise be punished for bad luck or choosing to be helpful instead of focusing on the event?

Here’s my rebuttal to the idea of needing forced WP relocation. Stop letting dead players scale up an event.

I am not sure that I understand the point there. Don’t you want to get back into the event after youve been killed ? Why wouldnt you WP and run back to the fight ?

You should ask the people laying around. I get my rear up and back to running so I am not laying there uselessly, in the hopes of getting back into the fray and being useful.

(Even if I am a ranger.)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As far as we know, according to past Dev statements, the dead do not scale up events. This seems to be misinformation that is commonly accepted. I’m not sure why.

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Palador.2170:

I know some people don’t WP due to the costs, but I often find myself wondering “can I make it back in time if I WP?” I worry that I won’t, and miss out on the reward I was trying so hard for. Yes, in most places that’s not really an issue, but in some the nearest WP is far enough away that I do worry, especially if the fight is nearly over.

Well, if you do an appreciable amount of damage you’ll still get the reward at Bronze, which triggers Bonus Chests or the loot chests. Not many events are far from waypoints if they succeed, come to think of it. Shouldn’t be as much of an issue – I think the champ or rare-loot"Steel Chests" which drop linger for five minutes?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Because full dead bodies get in the way of ressing people that are only downed.

Lazaar.9123:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Because full dead bodies get in the way of ressing people that are only downed.

. . . given how often I don’t get picked up when downed, I don’t think that’s as big an issue as you claim. I’ve been left to die (hard death) more often than picked up.

And most of the times someone picks me up has been in WvW, not in PvE. In PvE, it’s been my experience if you go down people generally seem to think you somehow deserved it and won’t help.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well, if you do an appreciable amount of damage you’ll still get the reward at Bronze, which triggers Bonus Chests or the loot chests. Not many events are far from waypoints if they succeed, come to think of it. Shouldn’t be as much of an issue – I think the champ or rare-loot"Steel Chests" which drop linger for five minutes?

Actually, that brings up a good question: How long DO you have to get back to a fight and claim your rewards after the event ends?

Though, what I should have said is that I kind of worry that I’ll be far enough away that it’ll forget that I was in that fight unless I make it back by the end. Which, now that I think about it, is stupid of me. I’ve WP’ed across a map before, then had an event I tagged before the jump complete and reward me many times.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lazaar.9123:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Because full dead bodies get in the way of ressing people that are only downed.

. . . given how often I don’t get picked up when downed, I don’t think that’s as big an issue as you claim. I’ve been left to die (hard death) more often than picked up.

And most of the times someone picks me up has been in WvW, not in PvE. In PvE, it’s been my experience if you go down people generally seem to think you somehow deserved it and won’t help.

The salt is strong in this one.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

What about players like me, who most often die entirely due to either repeated/constant CC on me (knockdown, launch, knockdown, stun, death) . . . or picking people who went down (but not dead) up and making it impossible to dodge a hit? I assume we should likewise be punished for bad luck or choosing to be helpful instead of focusing on the event?

Here’s my rebuttal to the idea of needing forced WP relocation. Stop letting dead players scale up an event.

I am not sure that I understand the point there. Don’t you want to get back into the event after youve been killed ? Why wouldnt you WP and run back to the fight ?

You should ask the people laying around. I get my rear up and back to running so I am not laying there uselessly, in the hopes of getting back into the fray and being useful.

(Even if I am a ranger.)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As far as we know, according to past Dev statements, the dead do not scale up events. This seems to be misinformation that is commonly accepted. I’m not sure why.

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Sorry, I am not trying to be obtuse but I am still not getting it. You said, “what about players like me,” in reference to being punished. The only people that I have seen anyone speaking about being punished are those who choose to lie around rather than getting back up and into the fight. If you are not lying around, then the various suggestions about “punishing” those who are dont really apply to you.

Characters get downed, they die. Even people who are normally very good at timing dodges and other active defenses might die due to lag in some of the bigger events. Of course they shouldnt be punished for that. But the people who just lie there (Ive never seen a dev comment one way or the other about the dead scaling up content) and opt to not contribute should probably be encouraged to get back into the fight.

Palador.2170:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well, if you do an appreciable amount of damage you’ll still get the reward at Bronze, which triggers Bonus Chests or the loot chests. Not many events are far from waypoints if they succeed, come to think of it. Shouldn’t be as much of an issue – I think the champ or rare-loot"Steel Chests" which drop linger for five minutes?

Actually, that brings up a good question: How long DO you have to get back to a fight and claim your rewards after the event ends?

Though, what I should have said is that I kind of worry that I’ll be far enough away that it’ll forget that I was in that fight unless I make it back by the end. Which, now that I think about it, is stupid of me. I’ve WP’ed across a map before, then had an event I tagged before the jump complete and reward me many times.

I know, it’s a mental thing, it’s why I stop to try to get people up if I can. Even the full dead, if I think I can spare the time. I also have taken to running “Search and Rescue” on my bar, too. (Actually fairly useful, that moa has more health than I do.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lazaar.9123:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Because full dead bodies get in the way of ressing people that are only downed.

. . . given how often I don’t get picked up when downed, I don’t think that’s as big an issue as you claim. I’ve been left to die (hard death) more often than picked up.

And most of the times someone picks me up has been in WvW, not in PvE. In PvE, it’s been my experience if you go down people generally seem to think you somehow deserved it and won’t help.

Take the zerg spot in Tequatl for example, if a notification pops up people will spam f to res them, but if it’s a dead body they interacted with instead it will be a huge dps loss and will likely cause someone that is only downed to full die.

Ashen.2907:

Sorry, I am not trying to be obtuse but I am still not getting it. You said, “what about players like me,” in reference to being punished. The only people that I have seen anyone speaking about being punished are those who choose to lie around rather than getting back up and into the fight.

Characters get downed, they die. Even people who are normally very good at timing dodges and other active defenses might die due to lag in some of the bigger events. Of course they shouldnt be punished for that. But the people who just lie there (Ive never seen a dev comment one way or the other about the dead scaling up content) and opt to not contribute should probably be encouraged to get back into the fight.

You know, it comes to mind there’s a specific challenge which gets tried in another game I play, the “Nuzlocke Challenge” for Pokemon games. The idea is simple – you can only capture the first Pokemon you encounter in any area, and once a Pokemon is KO’d, you must release it. A “permadeath” if you will.

I’ve thought about what would happen if we had something like that happening here, where the only way to return to life is to have someone else come pick you up. And you couldn’t call for help, either, you had to pretend you were a corpse. I think it could be pretty . . . interesting . . . but then, I’m a roleplayer at heart.

No, it’s not quite an answer to your post, just a reflection in thought aloud.

But according to this topic, and suggestions of auto/forced WP returns, there’s no distinction between players who were unlucky dodging or players who just sit there to wait it out. Fully dead is fully dead, and anyone laying on the ground needs to be moved . . . sometimes denied a reward . . . because they died.

It irks me, slightly, because I often enough die due to bad luck (Silverwastes KD/KB/AoE spam during fort defenses) or because I try to get someone sitting in one of Teq’s poison puddles up before they die, and I wind up down instead. Punishing me for that feels . . . wrong.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I know, it’s a mental thing, it’s why I stop to try to get people up if I can. Even the full dead, if I think I can spare the time. I also have taken to running “Search and Rescue” on my bar, too. (Actually fairly useful, that moa has more health than I do.)

I like to help people get up as well. I’ve never gotten good results with “Search and Rescue”, though. I hit that, and my wolves can’t find their teeth with their tongues, much less find someone to help up.

I would make these changes:

• When you are defeated on open world, you’ll get a 5min timer, after that time ,you are automatically sent back to the closest waypoint near a map entrance, just like in WvW.
• But within group events, an popup warning message will be added on screen. Press “ok” in the warning and you are automatically sent to the closest waypoint (you can still use any waypoint manually in the map). But the warning will also have a 20s timer. After those 20s, the warning will disappear and you will stop counting for the event’s scaling, and you will also lose progress on it if you don’t revive and come bat.

In other words: You get defeated, you’ll get eventually revived always, but inside group events, and only group events, if you don’t heed the warning and come back, it’ll be as if you weren’t there at all.

Palador.2170:

What if, at world boss events, some NPC would throw up a “temporary waypoint” right before it starts? That way, you have to be there to tag the waypoint to use it, so there’s no just jumping right to the fight if it’s in a more remote location. But it also allows you to get right back into the action if you’re willing to pay the WP fees.

After the event, the waypoint is taken down or breaks, so you have to re-tag it if you want to use it the next time.

I know some people don’t WP due to the costs, but I often find myself wondering “can I make it back in time if I WP?” I worry that I won’t, and miss out on the reward I was trying so hard for. Yes, in most places that’s not really an issue, but in some the nearest WP is far enough away that I do worry, especially if the fight is nearly over.

That gave me an idea. A Regroup Point which is a Waypoint that is out of the way and close, only stays up during main events and automatically waypoints a dead player participating after a certain amount of time has passed or if the player does it by themselves. But since I usually have personal issues with rewarding failure and whatnot, I feel that no insta-res for automatic waypointing and insta-res for those who waypoint? Again that is just my preference.

EDIT: The Regroup Point can also be red because red is a nice color.

Lazaar.9123:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lazaar.9123:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Because full dead bodies get in the way of ressing people that are only downed.

. . . given how often I don’t get picked up when downed, I don’t think that’s as big an issue as you claim. I’ve been left to die (hard death) more often than picked up.

And most of the times someone picks me up has been in WvW, not in PvE. In PvE, it’s been my experience if you go down people generally seem to think you somehow deserved it and won’t help.

Take the zerg spot in Tequatl for example, if a notification pops up people will spam f to res them, but if it’s a dead body they interacted with instead it will be a huge dps loss and will likely cause someone that is only downed to full die.

I’m familiar with the fight, thanks, I try to do it nightly and switch up where I go. Zerg, turrets, hills, boats, I’ve been in all the positions at least once now.

. . . the DPS loss of one person stopping to pick up one dead body isn’t of consequence. The DPS loss of a significant amount of people stopping to pick up a ton of them is slightly of consequence.

And Tequatl is one fight where there is no shame in dying.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

Sorry, I am not trying to be obtuse but I am still not getting it. You said, “what about players like me,” in reference to being punished. The only people that I have seen anyone speaking about being punished are those who choose to lie around rather than getting back up and into the fight.

Characters get downed, they die. Even people who are normally very good at timing dodges and other active defenses might die due to lag in some of the bigger events. Of course they shouldnt be punished for that. But the people who just lie there (Ive never seen a dev comment one way or the other about the dead scaling up content) and opt to not contribute should probably be encouraged to get back into the fight.

You know, it comes to mind there’s a specific challenge which gets tried in another game I play, the “Nuzlocke Challenge” for Pokemon games. The idea is simple – you can only capture the first Pokemon you encounter in any area, and once a Pokemon is KO’d, you must release it. A “permadeath” if you will.

I’ve thought about what would happen if we had something like that happening here, where the only way to return to life is to have someone else come pick you up. And you couldn’t call for help, either, you had to pretend you were a corpse. I think it could be pretty . . . interesting . . . but then, I’m a roleplayer at heart.

No, it’s not quite an answer to your post, just a reflection in thought aloud.

But according to this topic, and suggestions of auto/forced WP returns, there’s no distinction between players who were unlucky dodging or players who just sit there to wait it out. Fully dead is fully dead, and anyone laying on the ground needs to be moved . . . sometimes denied a reward . . . because they died.

It irks me, slightly, because I often enough die due to bad luck (Silverwastes KD/KB/AoE spam during fort defenses) or because I try to get someone sitting in one of Teq’s poison puddles up before they die, and I wind up down instead. Punishing me for that feels . . . wrong.

See the time element of those suggestions is what makes them work for me. If I just missed a dodge and got put down I am going to WP and head back within seconds, not minutes.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It irks me, slightly, because I often enough die due to bad luck (Silverwastes KD/KB/AoE spam during fort defenses) or because I try to get someone sitting in one of Teq’s poison puddles up before they die, and I wind up down instead. Punishing me for that feels . . . wrong.

It’s not punishment if you get up and WP like most people should be doing when they die. If you choose to stay there and not contribute, you should be credited and rewarded accordingly. You may even be providing negative contribution with 1.) time before the game to realize you’re worthless and dead weight at the moment (before it downscales things back accordingly), and 2.) damage and support lost from other players kitten you instead of actually contributing.

If they have to make the nearest waypoint free for the first 30 seconds of death when there’s an event near your corpse, I have no problem with that. While I suspect waypoint costs are the least of most players’ concerns, it would be one less excuse they could try to use.

When I’m feeling sassy, I mail the wp cost to dead players :P

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Because dead players do no DPS? What if those remaining on their feet are too few, losing an event that might have been won if the dead had waypointed and gotten back into the fight?

BrettM.9062:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Because dead players do no DPS? What if those remaining on their feet are too few, losing an event that might have been won if the dead had waypointed and gotten back into the fight?

Then the dead people are punished by getting no reward for their attempts to coast.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lazaar.9123:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lazaar.9123:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Because full dead bodies get in the way of ressing people that are only downed.

. . . given how often I don’t get picked up when downed, I don’t think that’s as big an issue as you claim. I’ve been left to die (hard death) more often than picked up.

And most of the times someone picks me up has been in WvW, not in PvE. In PvE, it’s been my experience if you go down people generally seem to think you somehow deserved it and won’t help.

Take the zerg spot in Tequatl for example, if a notification pops up people will spam f to res them, but if it’s a dead body they interacted with instead it will be a huge dps loss and will likely cause someone that is only downed to full die.

I’m familiar with the fight, thanks, I try to do it nightly and switch up where I go. Zerg, turrets, hills, boats, I’ve been in all the positions at least once now.

. . . the DPS loss of one person stopping to pick up one dead body isn’t of consequence. The DPS loss of a significant amount of people stopping to pick up a ton of them is slightly of consequence.

And Tequatl is one fight where there is no shame in dying.

Try commanding it then. Commanders have to keep the zergs functioning. The downing of a few players is manageable. The death of a number should not be the cause of failure

When you’re trying to keep the zerg together but players keep running off to res the dead

1. It removes the damage from 2 or more players (depending on how many go to res) from the fight
2. Players ressing the dead are vulnerable to the AOE because of the slow speed of ressing in combat
3. A dead player lying there is useless but a dead player that has WP’d and returned to the fight is contributing because they haven’t pulled other players out of the fight to help them

I’ve watched the both east and west zergs go down because a couple of ppl died. The others tried to stack res, AOE’s landed and nailed a couple more before the turret shots landed, more ppl came over to help and bam snowball effect and the entire east zerg was littered with skull and cross bones.

I won’t avoid a downed player to protect myself, but when I command the melee or ranged zergs I make sure everyone there knows that if a player is downed, stack res them, but if they die, they need to WP and get back. I won’t whip them about it but explain to them the four points above. Warriors need to have Battle Standard equipped for insta-res’s.

Ppl will understand why if it’s explained to them. If they think you’re doing it out of spite, they’ll just lie there. There may be no shame in dying but players should feel embarrassed when they’ve contributed to the failure.

I’m not commanding. Ever . . .

I made that decision when I had 100 Gold and wondered about it. Frankly, it wasn’t respected then in PvE and in WvW people preferred other commanders.

I’m somewhat agreeing that players who stay dead with the intent to leech should feel ashamed. But they won’t ever feel ashamed. Punishing other players for them feels like trying to drive in a ten-penny nail with a sledgehammer.