Guild Wars 2

Oh, forum bug, you strike again.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Hardly an issue eithinan. [Snip: description of event, Thanks I’ve been farming it a lot, I get how it works}

Artaz is pretty much reiterating the point most of us are trying to get others to understand. The game makes no difference between someone dead or downed. The other reason we want people to waypoint if they die is so that you are not in our way of reviving the downed. We’re all various levels of “sorry” that you died, but… you died and your importance for reviving just dropped to the bottom of the list to tie for last place with other dead people. Hell, if it’s the zerg commander that dies, instead of picking them up, I’ll temporarily take their spot as a commander and lead until they waypoint, run back, and are able to resume command. Far more efficient that way.

I am begging you to please look at my post history or at least read the rest of this thread so you know where I stand with regards to WP when downed and my understanding of the issues with the fully downed…

With regards to the post you were responding to it was a tangent as I clearly stated, but I think is connected to what we are talking about in this thread. I was referring to in that post the people on the map who were camping south and when the lane failed hit the road. Most of them were just half afk tagging things with range attacks.

edit: here was my first post in this thread…

I would like to see forced wp after 1 min of not being rezzed at cost with an addendum. If you are forced to wp you are shunted to another shard and lose credit for participating in the event. This would solve the tag and afk mentality of a lot of these event farmers who leech off the population actually trying to complete it.

It is lazyness. I’ve seen it so many times – especially at vinewrath. One time actually I was commanding the middle, we had the misfortune to be swamped by a literal swarm of teragriffs (of all colors, from regulars to champions) and as a result there was ONE player still left alive. I WPed all the way to Camp Resolve (the nightmare vine WP was disputed) and in map chat I kept telling them to WP and kept calling for help all the way running back to VW. Long way to run. When I got there there were about 5 players who had come to help, and finally we got those teragriffs away, but practically ALL the players that had been defeated were still there. Laying on the ground, dead. Of course we failed. I have no idea what was in their mind, that someone will miraculously be able to rez them while fighting over half a dozen teragriffs, or that 4-5 players would be able to fight the teragriffs AND defend the golem?
That was, really, the only VW event that I’ve been to that failed miserably.

This really needs to get addressed. The problem is, waiting for a Rez is a trained response for a lot of new players.

Throughout most of your levelling expereicnes, if someone is nearby, you let them Rez you. Experience points and no need to WP, all good. Suddenly a new player gets thrust into a situation where, despite their previous conditioning, people are yelling at them to do the opposite, due to a mechanic which is not explicitly stated as part of the game in-game.

I’d call for some civility, if people aren’t wping, they aren’t necessarily leeching or bringing down the team intentionally; it’s just a conditioned response for many.

Clearly the intention was for rezzing to be more ideal than wping, and ideally, it’d be like dungeons, where you can’t WP unless you fully wipe.

… It’d suck for a few reasons, but it might be an option for wping to just not work if you’re in range of a world boss. If you scale, you stay, as it were.

But that itself is problematic, just closer to it’s intended purpose. Perhaps a lighter touch ,such as WPing being available but having adverse sidefeffects. Maybe a boss gets slightly stronger each time you WP from death. You can come back and fight, but too many people do it, and you’re screwed. Suddenly rezzing becomes more viable. This could be a good balance, where wping is good but cannot be abused or be the end all solution to death.

It’s not an easy problem to fix.

yanipheonu.5798:

It’s not an easy problem to fix.

It’s worse when you consider the number of people who have turned off /map and /say chat.

Commanded another Tequatl run last night and made certain to inform people that if they die they should go to the nearby Quaggan waypoint and run back. Most players who do Teq now understand the need for it, especially those in the frontal zergs. I think once players have gotten the swing of things that in world boss events like these, there just isn’t the time or opportunity for players to be ressed from dead. Eventually, players that just lie there waiting to be ressed while everyone is fighting end up just feeling embarrassed that they died and everyone else is still up and fighting. Better to just remove your pip from the map so that people aren’t just staring at you.

And i think that’s the psychology of it. When a number of players are dead, people don’t feel so bad about being just another of the dead but if you’re the only one lying there, your pip is the only one visible on the minimap and even though your name isn’t visible, the thought of all those other players just looking at your pip just lying there will make people move.

Perhaps, that’s the way to do it. Play on people’s psychology. When you go down, you only see your own pip on the mini map and none of the other dead. If players are fooled into thinking they’re the only one lying there, they may be more inclined to WP.

Azrael.4960:

Commanded another Tequatl run last night and made certain to inform people that if they die they should go to the nearby Quaggan waypoint and run back. Most players who do Teq now understand the need for it, especially those in the frontal zergs. I think once players have gotten the swing of things that in world boss events like these, there just isn’t the time or opportunity for players to be ressed from dead. Eventually, players that just lie there waiting to be ressed while everyone is fighting end up just feeling embarrassed that they died and everyone else is still up and fighting. Better to just remove your pip from the map so that people aren’t just staring at you.

And i think that’s the psychology of it. When a number of players are dead, people don’t feel so bad about being just another of the dead but if you’re the only one lying there, your pip is the only one visible on the minimap and even though your name isn’t visible, the thought of all those other players just looking at your pip just lying there will make people move.

Perhaps, that’s the way to do it. Play on people’s psychology. When you go down, you only see your own pip on the mini map and none of the other dead. If players are fooled into thinking they’re the only one lying there, they may be more inclined to WP.

It’s an interesting perspective. If it’s an issue of anonymity and embarrassment, then calling out the names of people’s corpses on the ground for a while may spur them to action, and announcing one’s intention to do this may preemptively push people to WP right away.

inb4 anyone tells me this is reportable and bannable. Nobody would be stating anything other than the fact that someone is dead and has not waypointed. The accused have both the ability to defend themselves (they are on the map) and the ability to prevent getting called out in the first place.

yolo swaggins.2570:

runeblade.7514:

Ashen.2907:

runeblade.7514:

I refuse to walk literally 60 seconds from the wp to the boss because the zerg doesn’t feel like ressing me. Another alternative if ANet add a wp 5 seconds away from the boss. Then I would wp.

Not sure I get this.

You would rather lie there and do nothing than take care of yourself ? You will actually choose to do nothing at all if other people dont give up doing what they want in order to take care of your character for you ?

I rather ANet put a WP 5 seconds away from the boss so that no one is inconvenienced at all.

In a literal sense, 60 seconds is a pretty long walk especially when you have to stare at the computer so that you won’t hit the obstacles. I rather avoid that.

Not going to lie, that sounds like selfishness diluted with alot of lazy.

Plenty of people in this thread pointed out how ressing a dead person was detrimental but the main things were:

• Takes way longer to res the dead than a downed player.
• Takes away from DPS in addition to the dead DPS which means the fight will last longer, meaning higher chance of failure.
• Very little excuse due to inconsequential WP charge and distance from event.

And another thing I want to point out is that the way this game is designed, player characters are designed to be self-sufficient with the capacity to provide some form of support. But the support rarely synergizes enough with the other parts of combat to make any added difference leaving more DPS as one of the more efficient methods. The point is if you die it is all on you.

It isn’t about elitist’s gold/sec like you assumed. More people are more concerned with the time and effort they’ve put into big events.

Here is the last point I am going to say to you: Nothing wastes time and effort in this game like a bunch of corpses on the ground.

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The reason why is this:

1.) When one player refuses to waypoint, the only ones attempting to res them are good Samaritans and people who believe that they won’t get downed during the attempt. But things like ressing and healing can draw aggro and make it more likely that a ranged attack will target you. I believe it takes ~25 seconds for a single player to res a dead player in combat. With max number (I believe 5) all in combat, 5-10 seconds.

With downed players it takes, ~5 seconds for one player to res and it is nearly instantaneous with 3. Another thing is that a downed person can also add to the ressing meaning that a max of 6 players are ressing at once. That is why downed takes priority over dead.

2.) If the ressers are targeted by a ranged attack, a boss will quickly down them unless they manage to free themselves and avoid it. Otherwise, worst case scenario is that there are now 5 downed and one still dead. 5 players are now providing severely reduced DPS until they get ressed. Otherwise, worst case scenerio is there are now 6 corpses all taking up an area that could be used to drop support items.

3.) With a lower number of targets, damage and aggro is not as thinly spread as it was and is more concentrated on those who are still alive which reduces survivability for the players and lower the chance of it succeeding.

4.) If players continue to die and not waypoint, morale begins to fall aswell. Seeing a high number of downed symbols on the map can make people feel uncomfortable but seeing alot of dead player markers on the map is a cause for concern especially if the number keeps growing. Once morale drops enough people start leaving.

5.) If a noticeable amount of players start leaving, the rest will follow seeing as it is a failing event. Unless the few players present manage to pull it off, the event will fail and rewards will be reduced for everyone. All that time and effort for only 50% of the event’s XP for everyone involved.

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This is all worst-case scenario, yet it happens so often. A group can completely avoid this scenario, however, if they waypointed once they died (or just not die at all) and ran back. The 2 silver and 30 seconds is nothing compared to the duration of the event x the # of players participating.

…And if I wp, I got to walk a literal 60 seconds of a boring walk and I am not allowed to afk because I might hit a wall or a small rock.

If I don’t wp, I will eventually get ressed by good Samaritans. I can afk, go on the internet while everyone is dpsing, doing stuff, or ressing me. At least when I afk, I can do something entertaining. If events fail while I’m on the ground, then fine, at least I did something entertaining on my time.

Aidan Savage.2078:

If you’re dead? You’re a waste of our time, your time, and overall DPS by continuing to sit there because the game does not differentiate between your lifeless corpse and someone who was downed.

Lets get this straight.

If the zerg refuses to res me from full dead state, that’s fine. My time is wasted when I have to run straight from the wp because it is boring and unfun. I can’t afk because I might run into a wall or a rock. I didn’t buy this game to be bored.

On the other hand, My time is not wasted when I don’t wp. I can surf on the internet, play Minesweeper, argue over pointless internet debates, etc. I don’t need to move, I can just wait while players res me.

It is selfish to force me into this boring action of walking from so far away. Making me do what you want because it gives you ‘fun’/‘time’ or ‘whatever it is you want.’

For everyone to be happy, it needs one of the things:

• A waypoint 5 seconds away from the world boss.
• ANet implementing NPC that resses me from full dead state like the Scarlet hologram world boss.
• Commanders is happy to encourage the zerg to res full dead state players so that their ‘event doesn’t fail.’

Until then, I refuse to wp because it’s boring.

yanipheonu.5798:

It’s not an easy problem to fix.

It’s quite easy.

• Ignore the dumb suggestions on forcing players to waypoint.
• Put NPC around that can fully res like the Scarlet hologram world boss/add a waypoint 5 seconds away from the boss.

Easy, done.

runeblade.7514:

I will not teleport because the wp is far away. I rather wait till someone resses me up.

runeblade.7514:

Good, I’m counting on it. If they refuse to take 5 seconds to res me from downed state, then they can die.

runeblade.7514:

If my corpse causes people to fail the run, then good.

runeblade.7514:

If events fail while I’m on the ground, then fine, at least I did something entertaining on my time.

runeblade.7514:

…And if I wp, I got to walk a literal 60 seconds of a boring walk and I am not allowed to afk because I might hit a wall or a small rock.

runeblade.7514:

I refuse to wp because it’s boring.

runeblade.7514:

It is selfish to force me into this boring action of walking from so far away. Making me do what you want because it gives you ‘fun’/‘time’ or ‘whatever it is you want.’

Piogre.2164:

runeblade.7514:

I will not teleport because the wp is far away. I rather wait till someone resses me up.

runeblade.7514:

Good, I’m counting on it. If they refuse to take 5 seconds to res me from downed state, then they can die.

runeblade.7514:

If my corpse causes people to fail the run, then good.

runeblade.7514:

If events fail while I’m on the ground, then fine, at least I did something entertaining on my time.

runeblade.7514:

…And if I wp, I got to walk a literal 60 seconds of a boring walk and I am not allowed to afk because I might hit a wall or a small rock.

runeblade.7514:

I refuse to wp because it’s boring.

runeblade.7514:

It is selfish to force me into this boring action of walking from so far away. Making me do what you want because it gives you ‘fun’/‘time’ or ‘whatever it is you want.’

I think he’s working too hard for it…