Guild Wars 2

“See it all the time at my Tech Support job. Often it leads to upset customers, but that is the truth of it. You don’t go making up lies to the customer to make them happy. Especially not when large amounts of computer data is involved.”

Some people expect unreasonable things. I was tech support too and once had someone annoyed because they bought a 64 bit PC early and couldn’t get flash to work to play farmvill. That wasn’t our fault, but the person started hating our company over it. That was him having improper hate.

Some people called in with their PCs saying they would come with specific specs (ex: 4.2 quad core) and it did not have such (a low end dual core for instance). These people wanted a refund. That’s false advertising and they are right for their hatred.

“Constructive feedback is made with respect to the pressures faced by the opposing party in an attempt to meet a mutually-beneficial middle ground which is achievable.”

What I’m asking is a facet of the game that is making it poorer is taken out. Yes, I understand I’m not taking the grinders into consideration because there is no middle ground, you can’t have a “little 90 hour grind” or a “big 90 hour grind”. You had a little grind before and they got a lot more added, we want it removed.

I’ll put it in the concept of food. Say you and me go eat, I am vegatarian, you are not. We both order the same thing (meaning there are the same ingredients in both our meals). We both decide on pasta. After it comes, you say “Man I could really use meatballs here”. Boom ,meatballs in both our meals. Well now, I no longer want to eat this. You can’t add a little bit or something into it, as I won’t eat it. And you think it’s better with it.

Saying “take them out” isn’t destructive critisism. If the menu said “Pasta, vegan, has no meatballs” and the restaurant changed it – they made what I ordered defunct and not available AFTER taking my money. If the menu said “Pasta”, then there’s a grey area. If the menu said “Pasta, has meatballs”, I can’t complain about ordering it.

What happened is we both ordered vegan pasta and the pro meatball group said “take these vegan bits our and put the meatball bits in” after enough that it made the meal unenjoyable for us.

Wolfend.5287:

Another, ‘you don’t qualify if you don’t think like me’ thread. Sorry, but the whole ‘me’ thing is wearing thin.

Good or Bad, feedback is ‘feedback’; ArenaNet deserves an honest opinion. So yours is rose-tinted. Good.

The OP didn’t actually qualify what his/her opinion on anything was, aside from their opinion on the current state of the forum and how to open new avenues of communication with Anet. It was well thought out and I think it’s hard to disagree with the stance they are taking as it’s pretty normal in real life to approach situations with a level head. This applies to the forums just as much. If not more, in fact.

By shooting from the hip, your post is pretty much proving his point. Sorry about that.

edit: capitalisation.

It’s scary how much the gaming community has changed. I remember the AQ40 opening event in WoW. We had massive lags and crashes, but I also remember people having fun and being more interested in the event itself, not so much about the rewards, it was all about the epicness and the experience and I cannot recall any major temper tantrums back then on the community forums.
These days if you don’t have any reasonable loot and major reward, people start complaining instantly.
It’s the constant growth of player demand and the gaming companies’ mission to please the people. Some people blame social media, or the fact that these days gaming companies are sharing too much information about their games when under development, so that players think that they have the right to “intervene” if they don’t like something. I remember about 7-8 years ago, gaming companies were releasing much less information, but then again social media wasn’t as strong as it is now.

This wouldn’t have gotten so bad if it weren’t for anet’s stony silence and lack of communication on the matter. unfortunately, it looks like an reccurring pattern from what i’ve been seeing eg. the “botting” debacle, when all bot-related threads were merged, dumped into one huge containment thread, ignored and subsequently locked. Now this just looks like more of the same.

Ps. I’d like to point out that the OP’s post is pretty inflammatory as well. And you know what they say about fanning flames…

Because well, if you start a post with “you people are the worst thing that happened to this game” and dont understand how that could be construed as offensive…i really don’t know what to say.

proxy.7963:

GADefence.5634:

We all post constructive feedback. Our feedback is take it out. It is not our fault our feedback differs from yours.

That isn’t constructive feedback. Constructive feedback is made with respect to the pressures faced by the opposing party in an attempt to meet a mutually-beneficial middle ground which is achievable.

See, that is the problem. The gear grind and easily achievable top gear are mutually exclusive ideas. Either top gear is hard to achieve, or it isn’t. Each option has their own supporters. I am perfectly willing to have it be accessible from both hard and easy sources, but apparently there are people that think the new eq is only worth something if i can’t ever get it.

And i tried to offer ideas. I don’t see any response (and it’s not because there were not read – this one topic seems to be intentionally avoided) – the posts that say that the problem doesn’t exist do not count, i’m afraid. There just comes a point beyond which i just want the other side to start responding instead of ignoring the matter.

Flynch.6034:

Wolfend.5287:

Another, ‘you don’t qualify if you don’t think like me’ thread. Sorry, but the whole ‘me’ thing is wearing thin.

Good or Bad, feedback is ‘feedback’; ArenaNet deserves an honest opinion. So yours is rose-tinted. Good.

The OP didn’t actually qualify what his/her opinion on anything was, aside from their opinion on the current state of the forum and how to open new avenues of communication with Anet.

Contradict – See bold. The “me” in the op is obviously intolerant of how others choose to express themselves. Very likely they are being as ‘civil’ as they are capable of being.

Wolfend.5287:

Flynch.6034:

Wolfend.5287:

Another, ‘you don’t qualify if you don’t think like me’ thread. Sorry, but the whole ‘me’ thing is wearing thin.

Good or Bad, feedback is ‘feedback’; ArenaNet deserves an honest opinion. So yours is rose-tinted. Good.

The OP didn’t actually qualify what his/her opinion on anything was, aside from their opinion on the current state of the forum and how to open new avenues of communication with Anet.

Contradict – See bold. The “me” in the op is obviously intolerant of how others choose to express themselves. Very likely they are being as ‘civil’ as they are capable of being.

But then you go on to say that his opinion is ‘rose tinted’. It’s a cyclical situation whereby two people argue that their own stance is correct and the other stance is skewed.

They may well be posting in as civil a manner as they can, but that doesn’t mean that it actually helps their cause.

If someone came up to me and shouted in my face that my jacket was horrendous, covered me in spittle and then proceeded to kick me in the shins, i’d probably not say ‘well ok that’s fine, no probs, thanks for the feedback’.

Astralporing.1957:

See, that is the problem. The gear grind and easily achievable top gear are mutually exclusive ideas. Either top gear is hard to achieve, or it isn’t. Each option has their own supporters. I am perfectly willing to have it be accessible from both hard and easy sources, but apparently there are people that think the new eq is only worth something if i can’t ever get it.

And i tried to offer ideas. I don’t see any response (and it’s not because there were not read – this one topic seems to be intentionally avoided) – the posts that say that the problem doesn’t exist do not count, i’m afraid. There just comes a point beyond which i just want the other side to start responding instead of ignoring the matter.

With all due respect, the response to this has been explosive, and although I have no doubt your input could have provided some value to discussions, I also doubt that it was noticed through the hundreds of posts repeating the same concerns. Repetition has resulted in the entire topic becoming white noise and while we may end up in a situation where ANet is able to salvage some of the player input and actually implement it, it’s still a difficult situation to navigate and I feel that’s the case partially because many players have made it that way through their outcry. It might have been avoidable, but here we are regardless.

Bonefield.9813:

First off, most of the ArenaNet employees are on holiday for Thanksgiving. This is right after many of them worked over the weekend on the event, which, considering how it went, had to have been pretty stressful. They did respond, several times, with the last communication being a promise that next week they’ll have information for us on their plans. I don’t begrudge these real people their personal time off to spend with their families because I’m upset about a video game, and my opinion is that anyone who does needs to get their priorities straight. I’m willing to wait for next week to see details, since any misunderstandings they didn’t have the time to work out now would only fuel speculation and possibly fury over the next few days, when they don’t have time to respond. Even something as simple as, “We’ll be addressing your concerns about Ascended gear” would most likely be seen as a promise by some to remove it and an indication that they weren’t denouncing it strongly enough by others.

Second, the OP never says that s/he’s in favor of Ascended gear, and in fact talks about what we can do to give constructive feedback so that ArenaNet will adjust their plans. I’m very much against Ascended gear. I’m sure other people in here are too, and we’re also trying to open up communication with the developers. The point the OP is trying to make is that it’s a two-way street: we can’t expect full and open communication if everything ArenaNet says is met with hostility from those who aren’t pleased with their exact wording or level of boot-kissing.

The replies we got were generic and didn’t address any of the many points the community articulated in the mammoth post that got eventually closed. Many of which were constructive and offered suggestions on ways to deal with the ascended gear problem.

Things went downhill from there because the core of the problem remained totally ignored. Even in his last post, Chris Whiteside refers to the many technical problems they experienced during the event, while gracefully overlooking the ascended gear dissatisfaction that grew rampant on the forums.

You didn’t issue any manifesto, you didn’t change the game, I didn’t give you any money based on your design phylosophy, yet I’m here arguing with you instead of ArenaNet.

I stay my case: those who haven’t anything meaningful to say about the problem should stay on the sidelines and let those who have try and communicate with ArenaNet.

Wolfend.5287:

Another, ‘you don’t qualify if you don’t think like me’ thread. Sorry, but the whole ‘me’ thing is wearing thin.

You’re the only one in this thread displaying the kind of logic you’re referring to. Your nameless movement has done everything in its power to tank the game, then you wonder why organized review bombs to create an internet-wide smear campaign are being deleted from these forums, so folks rage on about that. Meanwhile, I’ve seen the complainers talk about all the “WoW Locusts” asking ArenaNet for more endgame content and thus ruining it for the “everyone” you perceive yourselves to be, but I never saw the players asking for endgame content say anything that remotely sounded like “Do things /MY/ way, or we’re going to scream about it and do everything we can to take over the community forums, deface this game’s sales, and insist this game is dying to everyone who’ll listen because we don’t want anyone else to buy it.”

Flynch.6034:

Wolfend.5287:

Flynch.6034:

Wolfend.5287:

Another, ‘you don’t qualify if you don’t think like me’ thread. Sorry, but the whole ‘me’ thing is wearing thin.

Good or Bad, feedback is ‘feedback’; ArenaNet deserves an honest opinion. So yours is rose-tinted. Good.

The OP didn’t actually qualify what his/her opinion on anything was, aside from their opinion on the current state of the forum and how to open new avenues of communication with Anet.

Contradict – See bold. The “me” in the op is obviously intolerant of how others choose to express themselves. Very likely they are being as ‘civil’ as they are capable of being.

But then you go on to say that his opinion is ‘rose tinted’. It’s a cyclical situation whereby two people argue that their own stance is correct and the other stance is skewed.

They may well be posting in as civil a manner as they can, but that doesn’t mean that it actually helps their cause.

If someone came up to me and shouted in my face that my jacket was horrendous, covered me in spittle and then proceeded to kick me in the shins, i’d probably not say ‘well ok that’s fine, no probs, thanks for the feedback’.

word following ‘rose-tinted’ —--“good” [meaning the ‘me’ in the op’s opinion is as valid as yours and mine. Context is everything, use it.

Wolfend.5287:

Flynch.6034:

Wolfend.5287:

Flynch.6034:

Wolfend.5287:

Another, ‘you don’t qualify if you don’t think like me’ thread. Sorry, but the whole ‘me’ thing is wearing thin.

Good or Bad, feedback is ‘feedback’; ArenaNet deserves an honest opinion. So yours is rose-tinted. Good.

The OP didn’t actually qualify what his/her opinion on anything was, aside from their opinion on the current state of the forum and how to open new avenues of communication with Anet.

Contradict – See bold. The “me” in the op is obviously intolerant of how others choose to express themselves. Very likely they are being as ‘civil’ as they are capable of being.

But then you go on to say that his opinion is ‘rose tinted’. It’s a cyclical situation whereby two people argue that their own stance is correct and the other stance is skewed.

They may well be posting in as civil a manner as they can, but that doesn’t mean that it actually helps their cause.

If someone came up to me and shouted in my face that my jacket was horrendous, covered me in spittle and then proceeded to kick me in the shins, i’d probably not say ‘well ok that’s fine, no probs, thanks for the feedback’.

word following ‘rose-tinted’ —--“good” [meaning the ‘me’ in the op’s opinion is as valid as yours and mine. Context is everything, use it.

Rose-tinted is not something that is used positively.

StormGryffen.7638:

Wolfend.5287:

Another, ‘you don’t qualify if you don’t think like me’ thread. Sorry, but the whole ‘me’ thing is wearing thin.

You’re the only one in this thread displaying the kind of logic you’re referring to. Your nameless movement has done everything in its power to tank the game, then you wonder why organized review bombs to create an internet-wide smear campaign are being deleted from these forums, so folks rage on about that. Meanwhile, I’ve seen the complainers talk about all the “WoW Locusts” asking ArenaNet for more endgame content and thus ruining it for the “everyone” you perceive yourselves to be, but I never saw the players asking for endgame content say anything that remotely sounded like “Do things /MY/ way, or we’re going to scream about it and do everything we can to take over the community forums, deface this game’s sales, and insist this game is dying to everyone who’ll listen because we don’t want anyone else to buy it.”

by all means, justify censorship.

MrThebigcheese.2014:

Anet hyped this game like crazy and simply didn’t deliver.

Developpers don’t need to create the hype, the players do that all on their own. ANet released few trailers, really, in the 5 years before release. Most of the videos on YT creating the bulk of the hype came from press reviews and the like, in particular big voices such as Total Biscuit and The Yogscast.

ArenaNet didn’t need to create hype. The players did that all on their own.

Oh, and “they didn’t deliver” is only opinion. I think they did. The only thing I feel quite let down by is the lack of Guesting right now, and in the grand scheme of things it’s not that big a gripe since you can enter instances with friends on other servers anyway.

Awesome post OP. Nothing but a bunch of selfish whiny brats. I wish people directed this kind of frustration and entitlement towards real life.. maybe we’d have a chance of actually being free

Wolfend.5287:

by all means, justify censorship.

By all means, justify harassment.

This entire Mantra of “only be positive, never be negative” started in the 19th century and spread to the 21st century within US Culture. The difference between now and then is that today it has lead to a generation of irrational thinking and opinion that has caused a lot of damage.

The damage is so severe that managers are now being trained and asked to “speak directly” since many now spend more time trying to be politically correct than actually manage or lead. Walk into a walmart and as soon as you become negative, I guarantee you that you will get around 2 – 5 people doing all possible to put you into the positive-thinking mood.

Go into a college or university. Observe people, everyone is forced in a way to “maintain a positive outlook” even though it lead to a study where many were discovered to be forced into a positive mantra while internally they were self-destructive.

People who say “Be positive, not negative” and blame people for being “negative” and accuse them of “Ruining it for others” are the illogical and overemotional bunch who do not realize the power of negative feedback.

It was negative feedback that began the push to eliminate slavery in the U.S. It was negative feedback and resistance which lead to Brown vs The Board of Education and even Roe vs Wade (back during a time when abortion was illegal in many states) It was also negativity and action which proved the world that we needed Secure Operating Systems. It was also negativity which ushered anger when the world accepted only hiring degree students while companies were firing people left and right who did not have Comp Sci degrees. It was these groups who founded the top hacking groups and proved to the world that Experience and Dedication goes farther than the opinion a piece of paper equals experience when they took down the top Systems around the world.

Today, people are hired closer by experience in Comp Science than just having a degree in the field.

Positive Feedback is alright, but not as powerful as the negative. When people show appreciation for a product, it states that its fine. What is important is not the fact that 1000 people in an area are content since that says nothing about what should be and how one should proceed. What is more important is asking why the 20 – 50 people out of the 1000 do not approve. What creates that opinion and how is it generated?

What do others have that we do not?

Honesty is important as well. When people tell me to be “Politically Correct” in a society swamped by Euphemisms, then we start being dishonest.

Feedback is Feedback in any form. The fact we are going into a forum and writing this here is also a proof that we are spending time delivering our opinion.

So I don’t like being told how to think, how to act or how I should feel. You aren’t my parents and the only anger I have so far towards Anet in all honesty is the fact I was able to get my rewards in the one-time event, but many in my guild were not due to disconnects.

As the guild leader and founder, they come to me and tell me “I didn’t get my rewards due to disconnect” and it really really hurts me to say as a leader “I am sorry, there is nothing I can do about this” to my guildmates who also are friends..

This Anger is being shared by many along with the levels of fractal because it becomes harder and harder to be able to organize and provide for members and each other because of what has happened.

Anger and Frustration should reflect Anger and Frustration. I like what i read.

And yes, before you post counter-examples on how “talking” is limited, please be advised that written language has far more freedoms and more laws protecting it than spoken language and the medium used over the internet in courts is always written and not spoken unless VOIP is used.

Hi everyone,

Please refrain from engaging in personal wars. Keep the forums constructive and friendly.

Thanks

Setsunayaki.4907:

This entire Mantra of “only be positive, never be negative” started in the 19th century and spread to the 21st century within US Culture. The difference between now and then is that today it has lead to a generation of irrational thinking and opinion that has caused a lot of damage.

The damage is so severe that managers are now being trained and asked to “speak directly” since many now spend more time trying to be politically correct than actually manage or lead. Walk into a walmart and as soon as you become negative, I guarantee you that you will get around 2 – 5 people doing all possible to put you into the positive-thinking mood.

Go into a college or university. Observe people, everyone is forced in a way to “maintain a positive outlook” even though it lead to a study where many were discovered to be forced into a positive mantra while internally they were self-destructive.

People who say “Be positive, not negative” and blame people for being “negative” and accuse them of “Ruining it for others” are the illogical and overemotional bunch who do not realize the power of negative feedback.

It was negative feedback that began the push to eliminate slavery in the U.S. It was negative feedback and resistance which lead to Brown vs The Board of Education and even Roe vs Wade (back during a time when abortion was illegal in many states) It was also negativity and action which proved the world that we needed Secure Operating Systems. It was also negativity which ushered anger when the world accepted only hiring degree students while companies were firing people left and right who did not have Comp Sci degrees. It was these groups who founded the top hacking groups and proved to the world that Experience and Dedication goes farther than the opinion a piece of paper equals experience when they took down the top Systems around the world.

Today, people are hired closer by experience in Comp Science than just having a degree in the field.

Positive Feedback is alright, but not as powerful as the negative. When people show appreciation for a product, it states that its fine. What is important is not the fact that 1000 people in an area are content since that says nothing about what should be and how one should proceed. What is more important is asking why the 20 – 50 people out of the 1000 do not approve. What creates that opinion and how is it generated?

What do others have that we do not?

Honesty is important as well. When people tell me to be “Politically Correct” in a society swamped by Euphemisms, then we start being dishonest.

Feedback is Feedback in any form. The fact we are going into a forum and writing this here is also a proof that we are spending time delivering our opinion.

So I don’t like being told how to think, how to act or how I should feel. You aren’t my parents and the only anger I have so far towards Anet in all honesty is the fact I was able to get my rewards in the one-time event, but many in my guild were not due to disconnects.

As the guild leader and founder, they come to me and tell me “I didn’t get my rewards due to disconnect” and it really really hurts me to say as a leader “I am sorry, there is nothing I can do about this” to my guildmates who also are friends..

This Anger is being shared by many along with the levels of fractal because it becomes harder and harder to be able to organize and provide for members and each other because of what has happened.

Anger and Frustration should reflect Anger and Frustration. I like what i read.

And yes, before you post counter-examples on how “talking” is limited, please be advised that written language has far more freedoms and more laws protecting it than spoken language and the medium used over the internet in courts is always written and not spoken unless VOIP is used.

this would be true if we weren’t talking about a video game. in this case if you are getting negative and frustrated you are doing something wrong, not the game

I agree with the general sentiment, but the part where you talk about how it was done to address legitimate concerns, that was a bunch of people telling everyone they were going to quit and not recommend the game because there was no vertical progression at 80 for two months. Now we’re in the period where everyone is quitting and not recommending because there “is” vertical progression.

I’m a bit nervous about how it will all impact my enjoyment in the long run, but I’m willing to wait and see.

Now, what would truly gain my respect is if you posted this same thread a month or so ago, or months from now if they swing the other way. Did you make a post a few months ago telling everyone to get over no vertical progression at 80, and that the game was designed that way for a reason and we should move on?

Setsunayaki.4907:

This entire Mantra of “only be positive, never be negative” started in the 19th century and spread to the 21st century within US Culture. The difference between now and then is that today it has lead to a generation of irrational thinking and opinion that has caused a lot of damage.

The damage is so severe that managers are now being trained and asked to “speak directly” since many now spend more time trying to be politically correct than actually manage or lead. Walk into a walmart and as soon as you become negative, I guarantee you that you will get around 2 – 5 people doing all possible to put you into the positive-thinking mood.

Go into a college or university. Observe people, everyone is forced in a way to “maintain a positive outlook” even though it lead to a study where many were discovered to be forced into a positive mantra while internally they were self-destructive.

People who say “Be positive, not negative” and blame people for being “negative” and accuse them of “Ruining it for others” are the illogical and overemotional bunch who do not realize the power of negative feedback.

It was negative feedback that began the push to eliminate slavery in the U.S. It was negative feedback and resistance which lead to Brown vs The Board of Education and even Roe vs Wade (back during a time when abortion was illegal in many states) It was also negativity and action which proved the world that we needed Secure Operating Systems. It was also negativity which ushered anger when the world accepted only hiring degree students while companies were firing people left and right who did not have Comp Sci degrees. It was these groups who founded the top hacking groups and proved to the world that Experience and Dedication goes farther than the opinion a piece of paper equals experience when they took down the top Systems around the world.

Today, people are hired closer by experience in Comp Science than just having a degree in the field.

Positive Feedback is alright, but not as powerful as the negative. When people show appreciation for a product, it states that its fine. What is important is not the fact that 1000 people in an area are content since that says nothing about what should be and how one should proceed. What is more important is asking why the 20 – 50 people out of the 1000 do not approve. What creates that opinion and how is it generated?

What do others have that we do not?

Honesty is important as well. When people tell me to be “Politically Correct” in a society swamped by Euphemisms, then we start being dishonest.

Feedback is Feedback in any form. The fact we are going into a forum and writing this here is also a proof that we are spending time delivering our opinion.

So I don’t like being told how to think, how to act or how I should feel. You aren’t my parents and the only anger I have so far towards Anet in all honesty is the fact I was able to get my rewards in the one-time event, but many in my guild were not due to disconnects.

As the guild leader and founder, they come to me and tell me “I didn’t get my rewards due to disconnect” and it really really hurts me to say as a leader “I am sorry, there is nothing I can do about this” to my guildmates who also are friends..

This Anger is being shared by many along with the levels of fractal because it becomes harder and harder to be able to organize and provide for members and each other because of what has happened.

Anger and Frustration should reflect Anger and Frustration. I like what i read.

And yes, before you post counter-examples on how “talking” is limited, please be advised that written language has far more freedoms and more laws protecting it than spoken language and the medium used over the internet in courts is always written and not spoken unless VOIP is used.

A well written post indeed. However, no-one is asking for either positive or negative feedback only. The request is that both negative and positive are delivered with a degree of decorum.

Being well mannered and direct are not mutually exclusive. Being well mannered and furious are also not mutually exclusive. Conversation is aided by a degree of constructive feedback.

Of course there are times when frothing at the mouth and raging are the only route forwards, but i’d say those moments are generally dealing with serious life-changing and life-threatening situations.

Just my opinion, of course.

StormGryffen.7638:

Wolfend.5287:

by all means, justify censorship.

By all means, justify harassment.

So arena net receiving harsh critique, perhaps they should stop using the internet. If they hadn’t censored so liberally, we’d be viewing several hundred ‘harassment’ post, a veritable wall starting at page one. Add another several hundred post for all the banned players.

That’s a big word: harassment, you know what it means?

Mr International.3715:

this would be true if we weren’t talking about a video game. in this case if you are getting negative and frustrated you are doing something wrong, not the game

On the contrary, if a game is getting a player to be negative and frustrated, then maybe, just maybe, something IS wrong with the game?

Astralporing.1957:

Mr International.3715:

this would be true if we weren’t talking about a video game. in this case if you are getting negative and frustrated you are doing something wrong, not the game

On the contrary, if a game is getting a player to be negative and frustrated, then maybe, just maybe, something IS wrong with the game?

Aha well that’s the double-edged sword I’d say. The game would have to be so immersing to provide the player with an absolute form of anguish that the game itself would then have succeeded at what it set out to do. Ie. To involve the player to the point where it is no longer a game.

And to then create the frustration in the first place, it fails in one, or indeed many, places.

It’s a conundrum that requires a disconnect from both the player and the game to really bring some balance to the situation.

I suppose it never occurred to the OP that there may in fact be legitimate things wrong with this game. While there’s been some very poorly expressed negative feedback at times, the proof is in the pudding. Meaning, I am not sitting alone on my server all the time because they got it right. 99% of the complaints are valid ones. Complaints about the camera, the grind, DR, the new stat gear tredmill are some examples of legit complaints.

There has been a mass exodus from GW2. You can deny it if you want, but its sadly true. They complained until they were hoarse, then they gave up and left. Everyone lost on this one.

People need to stop complaining about what was said in the past (the manifesto was made 2 years ago! That is a long time). Instead, give suggestions to improve or change things about the game. I see these forums and I see thread after thread where the only point is to call out a developer or the company and villainize them as greedy, liars, or worse. I see fellow players attacking each other as if they are enemies, for simply stating their opinions on something. Is this what we want to turn this game into? A group of people arguing and fighting each other over words, opinions, and thoughts? I certainly don’t.

Sarie.1630:

MrThebigcheese.2014:

Anet hyped this game like crazy and simply didn’t deliver.

Developpers don’t need to create the hype, the players do that all on their own. ANet released few trailers, really, in the 5 years before release. Most of the videos on YT creating the bulk of the hype came from press reviews and the like, in particular big voices such as Total Biscuit and The Yogscast.

ArenaNet didn’t need to create hype. The players did that all on their own.

Oh, and “they didn’t deliver” is only opinion. I think they did. The only thing I feel quite let down by is the lack of Guesting right now, and in the grand scheme of things it’s not that big a gripe since you can enter instances with friends on other servers anyway.

Nobody here is arguing because of things said by TotalBiscuit or the YogsCast. It was the manifesto and some devs’ interviews and blog posts that set pretty bold goals in developing the game. Those goals were backed by the then perfect track record ArenaNet sported.

Semantics aside, what ArenaNet kept saying was grind is bad, and thus should be optional.

If ArenaNet was ok with vertical progression from the beginning, why did they make the most grindy items in the game, legendaries, identical in power to exotics? Because that’s what they always meant to do.

Until something we don’t know happened and they did a u-turn. Maybe they started losing players quickly, or something changed in the management and they were forced by their parent company to change course.

Either way, I would have appreciated more if they admitted the manifesto was plain wrong, or poorly executed, and they had to change direction to survive because, after all, they are a business.

That’s something I can relate to. Substantially ignoring the biggest and fastest growing thread in the game’s short history, however, is not.

Verrah.3027:

People need to stop complaining about what was said in the past (the manifesto was made 2 years ago! That is a long time). Instead, give suggestions to improve or change things about the game. I see these forums and I see thread after thread where the only point is to call out a developer or the company and villainize them as greedy, liars, or worse. I see fellow players attacking each other as if they are enemies, for simply stating their opinions on something. Is this what we want to turn this game into? A group of people arguing and fighting each other over words, opinions, and thoughts? I certainly don’t.

That’s what happens when an issue that is strongly felt by the community (or part of it) is substantially ignored.

You gotta be kidding me….i payed for this game, i also bought some gems with real money, like many others. This is the only place where we can give our feedback and if Anet is making changes we don’t like we have the right to give them a bad feedback.
This game is going in a direction i (and many others) don’t like. RIGHT NOW the game is changed, it’s already nearly impossible to find group to do a dungeon if it’s not FotM. You know why? cause Anet gave that dungeon better loot (and the ascended gear). This is their fault, not mine.

Wolfend.5287:

So arena net receiving harsh critique, perhaps they should stop using the internet. If they hadn’t censored so liberally, we’d be viewing several hundred ‘harassment’ post, a veritable wall starting at page one. Add another several hundred post for all the banned players.

I think you might have an inflated idea of how many people are this upset versus the total player base. I’ll concede that there are a significant number of very loud voices in opposition of the recent additions. More than two million copies of Guild Wars 2 have been sold – I’ll go ahead and grant the estimate that there are more than a few hundred of you very angry about the recent patch (and still sticking around). Even if that number were three thousand, or five thousand, when compared to the portion of the playerbase still content with the game, you would represent a small segment of the playerbase. As many as 50 of you are actively trying to tank the game on the website where I generally shop for such things. Some folks have moved on, and I regret that we lost them, but if you happen to be a person who’s remained behind thinking you’re going to get what you want by intentionally raining on everyone’s parade, it just doesn’t work that way.

I’m not even a supporter of the new patch, to be honest. I doubt I’ll be a big fan of the new dungeons. I just have other content I’m willing to be pleased with, and seeing as how I have no subscription fee, I’m more happy to wait for all the new rapid-fire content to continue entertaining me. That was a big selling point of the game, after all, it was going to have content added often.

“this would be true if we weren’t talking about a video game. in this case if you are getting negative and frustrated you are doing something wrong, not the game”

Sorry, but the group that was (one month ago) complaining about the game not having vertical progression (despite not having read everything that said ‘no vertical progression’), and whined until they got their way, is now the one that is telling us to stop giving our feedback because the game is the way they like it.

If anything, this is more hilarious then anything. We have 3-6 threads a WEEK about vertical progression not being present. We now have 5-6 threads a DAY about vertical progression.

OP: let me explain what happened to cause the “inflammatory posts” you so loathe.

Example 1: Anet promises to do X, but never to do Y. Anet lays down this promise in a very important document. To stress its importance, it calls it a “manifesto”.

Anet does Y.

Players want security. They bought the game, invested time in the game, because they wanted X, not Y.

Anet says nothing.

Players, with nuance, say to Anet: hey, what’s happening? What are you doing to the game.

Anet says nothing.

Players become anxious. They want an answer. With more vigor, they want to know what’s coming. Speaking for myself, I convinced an entire guild to come to this game, because of promise X.

Anet says nothing.

Players become desperate. What do they have to say to get an answer? They now become rude, because they are angry. They feel they have been lied to, because the decision to do Y is not reversed. Even worse: Anet STILL says nothing.

This is just one scenario that is happening right now. Another example promise upon promise upon promise to the ranger community that things would be fixed for their class. Instead, they get severe nerfs to their class due to the introduction of “bug fixes” which introduce more bugs, lowering their overall damage by about 15 to 20 percent.

You have to understand that silence, as well as repeated broken promises, lead to anger. And rightfully so. I followed many posts on this forum from its very introduction until now. I read very quickly, so I’m able to read a LOT. I could see the shift. Heck, I could feel it! The players are, in my opinion, in no way to blame for the turn-around on this forum that you detected. It was a gradual process which, at many different points, could have easily been stopped by Anet had it decided to answer the core questions of its playerbase.

clearly it’s the players’ faults! We all promised one thing then executed the opposite. Yes, we wrote the code, designed the game, etc. lol.

sinisterpink.7912:

Out of all the collective changes made to the game in multiple updates and builds, you players are the worst thing that has happened to this game, and this community..

Forums are the place to express opinions and I hate to burst the bubble but yours (or mine for that matter) are no more valid than anyone elses. The worst thing and the root cause of the strong feeling is changing the game manifesto without communicating in any meaningful way with the community and it’s concerns – had that been done… we wouldn’t be in the them and us situation we are now.

Seriously talk about “you players” not “us players” put “you” and it’s finger pointing. Is it helpful to start attacking the players that don’t agree with you? It doesn’t seem much different from the things you are complaining about.

The OP is right, certainly. Any cursory glance at the amount of flaming, exaggerated negativity should tell you that.

BUT: Don’t imagine that these constantly-furious forumgoers represent the average GW2 player. They believe they do, but they don’t. The average GW2 player cares a lot less, plays the game for fun, and probably only occasionally comes to the forums, if at all. I guarantee you.

And this is why the madding crowd does such a disservice to the game and the community: they create a very convincing, but very innaccurate, image of the playerbase and it’s opinions.

Fantastic post (not too fond of the title though). I especially agree with the last bullet point. I understand the frustration of some people, but their frustration tends to skew proper reasoning and judgement.

LordByron.8369:

sinisterpink.7912:

So I’ll make my point now before I lose your interest: grow up guys. The developers love and continue to love the game as much as we do.

So people that posts arguments you don t agree with should grow up?
Your logic is unrespectful of players.

Freedom of speech worth more than personal attacks not vice versa…….

“They can act and communicate according to our feedback, if we facilitate a constructive and positive forum environment for them to do so.”

The OP is encouraging constuctive posts. He is discouraging hateful posts, personal attacks, trolling, etc. You may have different personal opinions. I’ve done my best to explain his logic to you.

Op needs to realize this swings both ways. For all the “We HATE YOU ANET” posts out there are a slightly lesser but still sizeable number of “YOU ARE ALL KIDS, QQ MOAR, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT JUST QUIT” posts. Op also conveniently ignores the fact that many dissatisfied posts started out fair and constructive till one of the self-appointed Anet advocates decided to engage them with inflammatory statements. If you don’t believe me, take a look at the “how many ppl visit forums more than play the game” thread where most are not even criticizing but just stating their current play status and why they do not play as much anymore. Then you have the random white knights who go in and say something like “ALL THESE PPL WILL NEVER REALIZE THE PROBLEM IS IN THEIR HEADS”… dismissive and condescending no?

Now tell me, if your friend asked you about their new jacket and you tell them you actually like the older one more… they proceed to respond with “shut your face your opinion doesn’t matter, my taste is better” how would you react?

Lastly, as some have mentioned, how can the Op be discouraging personal attacks and hateful posts by telling a good portion of people to “grow up” and that the worst thing to happen to the game is them? It baffles me how the Op even thinks he is qualified to tell anyone to “grow up” without knowing anything about their personal situation.

Buttercup.5871:

OP: let me explain what happened to cause the “inflammatory posts” you so loathe.

Example 1: Anet promises to do X, but never to do Y. Anet lays down this promise in a very important document. To stress its importance, it calls it a “manifesto”.

Anet does Y.

Players want security. They bought the game, invested time in the game, because they wanted X, not Y.

Anet says nothing.

Players, with nuance, say to Anet: hey, what’s happening? What are you doing to the game.

Anet says nothing.

Players become anxious. They want an answer. With more vigor, they want to know what’s coming. Speaking for myself, I convinced an entire guild to come to this game, because of promise X.

Anet says nothing.

Players become desperate. What do they have to say to get an answer? They now become rude, because they are angry. They feel they have been lied to, because the decision to do Y is not reversed. Even worse: Anet STILL says nothing.

This is just one scenario that is happening right now. Another example promise upon promise upon promise to the ranger community that things would be fixed for their class. Instead, they get severe nerfs to their class due to the introduction of “bug fixes” which introduce more bugs, lowering their overall damage by about 15 to 20 percent.

You have to understand that silence, as well as repeated broken promises, lead to anger. And rightfully so. I followed many posts on this forum from its very introduction until now. I read very quickly, so I’m able to read a LOT. I could see the shift. Heck, I could feel it! The players are, in my opinion, in no way to blame for the turn-around on this forum that you detected. It was a gradual process which, at many different points, could have easily been stopped by Anet had it decided to answer the core questions of its playerbase.

It’s been like a week. Clearly something big is going on over there. Give them time to figure out what’s going on. It’s completely unreasonable to expect them to have some sort of miracle statement when YOU want it.

MrThebigcheese.2014:

Anet hyped this game like crazy and simply didn’t deliver.

They deserve the complaints. Also, making posts telling others to stop making posts is futile.

This is mere opinion. I thought they completely lived up to their ‘hype’. I’ve no complaints about the game, and I think you’re entirely wrong.

Except the last part. People are allowed to voice their opinions; you’re definitely right on that part.

Icas.3860:

On a side note, I’ve noticed a significant increase in activity on lower-level maps since Monday. .

i saw pink elephants in the sky trust me…..

Any proof?
Any statuistical evidence?

Well i think most of us have seen and heard low lvl areas are deserted…

I think the OP has a point but telling people to grow up isn’t going to endear you to people. Telling people to relax and think may have been better

So Anet have introduced a gear grind for those that wanted it, it only stops us playing a tiny percentage of the current content unless we gear up (Fractals after a certain level), gear grinders have something to achieve now, those of us that don’t want that kind of game can successfully ignore it up until a point when progress becomes impeded through gear requirements. So what about those of us who don’t want content gated by gear, who aren’t prepared to grind to continue in difficulty levels, what can Anet do to appease us?

If Anet can provide an alternate, with cosmetic rewards as the carrot so grinders and non grinder alike can play that tiny bit of content I’ll be a happier man. Perhaps an alternate route that doesn’t include Agony where the rewards are better looking recipes for crafters (Mystic Forge kills us post exotics), unique looking gear skins and maybe mini pets and that ever elusive gold.

I want harder, more challenging content, I went just rewards for it too but stats to me aren’t an issue as long as I can complete the content.

As for WvW – just don’t let that gear be equipped or introduce it as rewards for playing WvW and fast!

Now my first reactions were to scream at Anet for introducing a gear grind when the promise was for none, now that I’ve relaxed and thought about it I can see solutions, that’s not about growing up that’s about a passionate gamer relaxing a little

Sorry but people have valid concerns about the game, PVP is in a horrible place, Ascended gear and introducing new pve events during what is a pvp disaster was maybe not the best choice. Also all the positive " dont talk about it" people are probably raiders who know that without a sizable population of gear grind slaves chasing a carrot that there will be no one here for them to brag about their gear score.

I don’t care if I endear myself to anyone, honestly.

I made thread very similar to this. There is no point in souring a gaming forum, despite well reasoned concerns or well-thought out suggestions. Thanks OP for posting this, although I would add that saying that WE, the gamers are the worst thing that has happened here is a detriment to both of our arguments, and a clear example of that which we are trying to avoid.

Astralporing.1957:

Mr International.3715:

this would be true if we weren’t talking about a video game. in this case if you are getting negative and frustrated you are doing something wrong, not the game

On the contrary, if a game is getting a player to be negative and frustrated, then maybe, just maybe, something IS wrong with the game?

Yeah, that’s the reason I stopped playing Nethack. I actually wound up throwing my mouse against a wall and breaking it. I no longer play Nethack because next time it might be something more expensive to replace, like a monitor.

But is there something “wrong” with Nethack? Ehhh . . . no? It’s just not a game for me. I could substitute “Nethack” for “Team Fortress 2”, or “Starcraft”, or “League of Legends”, or “Farmville”.

(Or “Magic: the Gathering” where I almost flipped a table over losing a match I thought I’d won because someone pulled a Mythic Rare in a Sealed tournament and it completely screwed me. By the way, this situation? Probably the closest to the feeling of “Soandso got a Precursor and I didn’t” than anything else here . . . so yeah I do get an inkling of how you feel.)

These are all games I either tried or looked at and went “you know, I think I’ll pass”.

But other people like them, so I don’t know if anything is wrong with them. They’re not designed for me, but that’s okay.

I agree with the OP. Not so much his tone, but his general idea.

Regardless of whether you like or dislike the game, approve or disapprove, sensationalist representation, hyperbole and other things like that do not actually help the game or the general attitude of the community.

I’m not saying that people who say this event sucks are wrong. I’m not saying that people who say this event was awesome are wrong. Welcome to the wonderful world of “People are allowed to have their own opinions”.

It’s when you get in to people saying:

Oh this is going to kill the game
People are leaving and it’s all your fault ANet
They don’t listen to us!
You ruined everything with your gear treadmill!

Or even on the opposite side

ANet hasn’t done anything wrong
Stop complaining and leave the game
People still play the game so shut up

That you have a break down in communication. Constructive criticism and constructive feedback are SO necessary to any game, but if you can’t constructively create this criticism and feedback, it WILL get ignored. It honestly should. Knowing people don’t like something isn’t really helpful. Knowing why and how they want it improved is.

“I dislike X, Y, and Z because of reasons 1, 2 and 3.”
“I disagree because I think 1, 2 and 3 aren’t that bad myself, though I can see how you would find it annoying.”
“Well maybe if 2 was changed a little bit, you could retain your enjoyment of it and I could find it more bearable given my circumstance.”
“That’s a good idea. What about doing A to 1 as well? Would that help?”

Doesn’t that seem a LOT less inflammatory, a lore more useful, and a LOT more like the developers are going to read it and take it seriously if both sides of the argument are working together to craft something that works for all parties involved?

So if you want something to improve, don’t slap someone in the face. Yes, you’re upset. But making the person on the other side of the screen upset just results in mutually negative feelings and a general bad attitude that gets people nowhere.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

Doesn’t that seem a LOT less inflammatory, a lore more useful, and a LOT more like the developers are going to read it and take it seriously if both sides of the argument are working together to craft something that works for all parties involved?

So if you want something to improve, don’t slap someone in the face. Yes, you’re upset. But making the person on the other side of the screen upset just results in mutually negative feelings and a general bad attitude that gets people nowhere.

Unqualifed agreement here.

I also think a dialogue needs to happen between the two sides so we actually can feel out what all the points are and why there’s no agreement rather than just dismissing it as “ANet Apologist” and “Whining Kittykat-head”.

The problem is, this is the Internet. Socially, it’s built so it’s remarkably easy to push extreme opinions even more extreme than closer together.

proxy.7963:

With all due respect, the response to this has been explosive, and although I have no doubt your input could have provided some value to discussions, I also doubt that it was noticed through the hundreds of posts repeating the same concerns. Repetition has resulted in the entire topic becoming white noise and while we may end up in a situation where ANet is able to salvage some of the player input and actually implement it, it’s still a difficult situation to navigate

I don’t think it is, while there has been a lot of whining and repetition the core themes of players concerns are coming through loud and clear.

morrolan.9608:

proxy.7963:

With all due respect, the response to this has been explosive, and although I have no doubt your input could have provided some value to discussions, I also doubt that it was noticed through the hundreds of posts repeating the same concerns. Repetition has resulted in the entire topic becoming white noise and while we may end up in a situation where ANet is able to salvage some of the player input and actually implement it, it’s still a difficult situation to navigate

I don’t think it is, while there has been a lot of whining and repetition the core themes of players concerns are coming through loud and clear.

That is very true. Repetition of player concerns is KEY for a company to understand what is wanted and what isn’t wanted.

However repetition of concerns is not enough. Just because they know people don’t like it doesn’t mean that they know how these people want it fixed. And when I say fix, I mean actually fix, not just outright remove like quite a few people are petitioning for. As a company they don’t want to take all those man hours and just destroy them without attempting to come to an agreeable compromise between as many parties as possible.

But they need to know what would be an acceptable compromise instead of just the fact that people don’t like something.