Guild Wars 2

morrolan.9608:

proxy.7963:

With all due respect, the response to this has been explosive, and although I have no doubt your input could have provided some value to discussions, I also doubt that it was noticed through the hundreds of posts repeating the same concerns. Repetition has resulted in the entire topic becoming white noise and while we may end up in a situation where ANet is able to salvage some of the player input and actually implement it, it’s still a difficult situation to navigate

I don’t think it is, while there has been a lot of whining and repetition the core themes of players concerns are coming through loud and clear.

Apologies – by ‘white noise’, I’d intended for it to mean ‘drowning out alternative opinions’. I agree that the aggregate concerns are fairly clear, but would suggest that the supportive suggestions for overcoming these issues not nearly as obvious.

StormcrowX.9236:

This wouldn’t have gotten so bad if it weren’t for anet’s stony silence and lack of communication on the matter. unfortunately, it looks like an reccurring pattern from what i’ve been seeing eg. the “botting” debacle, when all bot-related threads were merged, dumped into one huge containment thread, ignored and subsequently locked. Now this just looks like more of the same.

Ps. I’d like to point out that the OP’s post is pretty inflammatory as well. And you know what they say about fanning flames…

Because well, if you start a post with “you people are the worst thing that happened to this game” and dont understand how that could be construed as offensive…i really don’t know what to say.

+1, and could someone LOCK this thread, it’s basically just trolling.

Loumy.7841:

StormcrowX.9236:

This wouldn’t have gotten so bad if it weren’t for anet’s stony silence and lack of communication on the matter. unfortunately, it looks like an reccurring pattern from what i’ve been seeing eg. the “botting” debacle, when all bot-related threads were merged, dumped into one huge containment thread, ignored and subsequently locked. Now this just looks like more of the same.

Ps. I’d like to point out that the OP’s post is pretty inflammatory as well. And you know what they say about fanning flames…

Because well, if you start a post with “you people are the worst thing that happened to this game” and dont understand how that could be construed as offensive…i really don’t know what to say.

+1, and could someone LOCK this thread, it’s basically just trolling.

I don’t think it’s just trolling, but I can agree, this probably isn’t going to go anywhere good now.

Irony is a fantastic tool. I like your sense of humor, OP.

Great post OP! Cheers!

AB

i think the OP is basically trying to get the community to address their issues with Anet and the game in a mature way is all. Stamping your feet and screaming is going to just make Anet look at you like a spolit child unworthy of even a response. State your issues politely and they be much more receptive.

Its funny how so many were supposed to be quitting the game yet the servers are still busy as hell. How many times have we heard wow is dead yet still got 10 million subs? Cos the people in their forums, just like these that spew this kinda nonsense just aint got the intelligence to realise they are acting like infants.

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

The OP is right, certainly. Any cursory glance at the amount of flaming, exaggerated negativity should tell you that.

BUT: Don’t imagine that these constantly-furious forumgoers represent the average GW2 player. They believe they do, but they don’t. The average GW2 player cares a lot less, plays the game for fun, and probably only occasionally comes to the forums, if at all. I guarantee you.

And this is why the madding crowd does such a disservice to the game and the community: they create a very convincing, but very innaccurate, image of the playerbase and it’s opinions.

Balony! Many of the people who voice complaints cared deeply for the game. They anticipated it for years. They even pre-purchased it. What’s more these same players were ignored and constatly told to leave if they didn’t like it. Well, they did. Now the maps are empty.

If you see tons of complaints about the same thing then chances are they are not made up. Because you disagree with them you call them a minority. Then why are the servers empty? No, You are the minority They voted, they left. I for one heard them loud and clearly!

Furthermore, Anet did deviate from their manifesto. They had a player base from GW1 that was locked in too. They bought the game on good faith. The Devs betrayed them.

last but not least, they gave one game through the betas and the first 3 weeks, and trhen basically took that game back and replaced it with an inferior substitute. Yet some how you think those players are to blame?

SHM.7628:

last but not least, they gave one game through the betas and the first 3 weeks, and trhen basically took that game back and replaced it with an inferior substitute. Yet some how you think those players are to blame?

Not inferior. Different. Unfortunately, that different game is aimed at different player group than the original one – and one that in its philosophy is antagonistic to the original one.

Inferior to most of the players.

Astralporing.1957:

Not inferior. Different. Unfortunately, that different game is aimed at different player group than the original one – and one that in its philosophy is antagonistic to the original one.

I love this argument, it’s actually true in essence. The feel of the game is slightly different after the patch and some players are very upset over it. You and I might disagree on the details but thank you.

Columba.9730:

Inferior to most of the players.

You on the other hand, I love your posts for an entirely different reason. You’re blunt, definite in your statements, making this an absolute truth. It makes it so much easier to gesture to and go “and comments like these just serve to piss people off and make communication harder”.

You serve a valuable need as an example of how not to conduct a discussion. Have a cookie.

Columba.9730:

Inferior to most of the players.

Inferior to some. Again, overexageration and hyperbole are exactly what this topic is about avoiding.

Columba.9730:

Inferior to most of the players.

Inferior to you, and inferior to me. But neither of us have actual numbers to back up this claim.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Astralporing.1957:

Not inferior. Different. Unfortunately, that different game is aimed at different player group than the original one – and one that in its philosophy is antagonistic to the original one.

I love this argument, it’s actually true in essence. The feel of the game is slightly different after the patch and some players are very upset over it. You and I might disagree on the details but thank you.

Columba.9730:

Inferior to most of the players.

You on the other hand, I love your posts for an entirely different reason. You’re blunt, definite in your statements, making this an absolute truth. It makes it so much easier to gesture to and go “and comments like these just serve to piss people off and make communication harder”.

You serve a valuable need as an example of how not to conduct a discussion. Have a cookie.

As if i care. I find these debates amusing. Even if no one agreed with me, I wouldn’t change a word. It’s not my objective to convince anyone.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

Columba.9730:

Inferior to most of the players.

Inferior to some. Again, overexageration and hyperbole are exactly what this topic is about avoiding.

. If only some,then why the huge uproar? Why the 12k thread?

ArenaNet is being judged by the standards they built up for themselves.

You’re telling people to stop voicing reasonable concerns with a game that has blatantly gone against everything that was promised, a game that marketed itself on principles it has utterly disregarded.

Explain to me what good would it do for people to shut up and take it as if the problem had gone away? And how is any of that indicative of growing up?

I am thoroughly disgusted by this kind of attitude from consumers with far too much time and money on their hands not to care about the state of the industry. Problems need to be reported so that they may be fixed, and underhanded business tactics need to be exposed so that future gaming companies think twice before they screw over their playerbase.

Gehenna.3625:

Within that realm we can learn that when there is a conflict that involves emotions because a customer is unhappy with something, the customer will keep reiterating the same thing over and over again until he/she gets the feeling they were heard, understood and taken seriously.

You could argue that the worst thing is the customer, but for a company it’s their bread and butter.

All I can say is that if these forums keep getting the same message over and over again, it means that these customers feel they have not been heard, understood or taken seriously….or all of the above.

This is pretty much why there is so much rage. There is nothing but a couple of pr blanket statements in response to literally thousands of angry posts. You can not change an MMO so dramatically and offer so little.

Space Cow.2431:

ArenaNet is being judged by the standards they built up for themselves.

You’re telling people to stop voicing reasonable concerns with a game that has blatantly gone against everything that was promised, a game that marketed itself on principles it has utterly disregarded.

Explain to me what good would it do for people to shut up and take it as if the problem had gone away? And how is any of that indicative of growing up?

I am thoroughly disgusted by this kind of attitude from consumers with far too much time and money on their hands not to care about the state of the industry. Problems need to be reported so that they may be fixed, and underhanded business tactics need to be exposed so that future gaming companies think twice before they screw over their playerbase.

Please read the actual thread please. A good half of the posts here show that most people understood the OP’s intent (even if it was rather off in it’s presentation and was pretty callous and rude). You are pretty much exactly highlighting the kind of behavior he, and so far a few other people, wants to see changed on the forums.

There was no great call to silence people. In fact, many people on his side have stated they want both sides of the extremist argument not silenced but rather directed. The “haters” and the “fanbois”, instead of fighting, work together to find a common ground. There was a call for constructive criticism and working together as a community instead of simple name calling and blaming.

What you did with your post is a brilliant example of a post that is fueled by anger, frustration, and is, unfortunately, not all that useful to anyone who reads it. If a dev were to read this they would find:

1) They set standards, which you have no clarified. They made promises that they broke, which you haven’t really explained.
2) That you’re angry about underhanded business tactics (which is in and of itself a very polarizing choice of words).
3) That you’re angry. Period.

These points are kind of useless in helping them develop content that will help you like the game better or fix problems that you have issues with. And unfortunately, a majority of the posts in these forums are like that. And they were even before Arenanet pulled it’s silence act (since I know a rebuttal about “We’ve said it already and they didn’t even listen” is soon to follow).

Ranting and raving has it’s place. Having the entire community devolve in to people who simply demand or reject change without trying compromise and making both baseless accusations and inflammatory comments in 90% of what is posted is counterproductive and not useful for the community or these forums.

That’s what this topic is about. And so far, it seems quite a few people agree.

So yeah, I appreciate what you’re trying to do with this thread, but honestly, the anger vented from everyone is completely justifiable, and it’s the only way for us to communicate our feelings with the developer.

Justifiable, yes. Productive, no.

Gehenna.3625:

Within that realm we can learn that when there is a conflict that involves emotions because a customer is unhappy with something, the customer will keep reiterating the same thing over and over again until he/she gets the feeling they were heard, understood and taken seriously.

You could argue that the worst thing is the customer, but for a company it’s their bread and butter.

All I can say is that if these forums keep getting the same message over and over again, it means that these customers feel they have not been heard, understood or taken seriously….or all of the above.

This is pretty much why there is so much rage. There is nothing but a couple of pr blanket statements in response to literally thousands of angry posts. You can not change an MMO so dramatically and offer so little. There is no feeling we are being heard or that Anet is addressing our concerns. Instead there is a feeling they are ramming this new direction down our throats. There is no sense that the company is going to compromise.

First off, thanks to your responses and your thoughts about the original issue. As a reminder, the original was this:

• A large number of players dilute the effectiveness of their feedback, be it positive or negative, with incendiary remarks written primarily to insult or destroy the reputation of Anet and the constructive atmosphere of the forums. Personal attacks; calling out specific developers to make snide comments, trolling, encouraging snowballs of infractions through the creation of “WoW 2.0”-esque threads do nothing to elicit the prompt developer responses that our community is looking for.

• There is nothing wrong with feedback, especially feedback that is negative. There is nothing wrong with saying you believe the game has taken bad directions, there is nothing wrong with say why you think so. The forums and feedback are especially dependent on that kind of feedback, and many players put significant time into articulating excellent critiques on the state of the game. However the issue comes when that effort is eroded by parasitic posts meant to hijack threads, and turn them into another “Screw Anet” slugfests between fellow community members – which ultimate results in the thread being locked (losing the chance at further valuable discussion).

• Nowhere was it mentioned in the previous points that your comments and feedback should only be positive. Nowhere was it mentioned that you do not deserve to have your say. However be aware that if you do take the unfortunate path of posting content that does nothing constructive for the forums (that only turn into infractions and encourage like-minded players to do the same) you diminish your chances at open developer-player communication. Developers and company representatives cannot approach the community forums at the frequency they may like to, as anything they post will be dissected, taken out of context, or misinterpreted for the express purpose of slandering the reputation of Anet further. There is a portion of our community that seems devoted to doing this: I am challenging them to stop so the people with valid points about the game can have their concerns heard and responded to in a more timely fashion.

For those people hinging their arguments on “we should be able to voice our opinion freely”: You are correct, we should be able to openly voice our concerns. Bare in mind that by also approaching forum communication with a certain level of maturity you also increase your chances of those concerns (and the concerns/opinions of your fellow community members) actually being heard and responded to.

I’d (humbly) ask than rather than finding ways to bicker and take comments made Anet and fellow community members out of context (for the sake of meaningless argument), that we players simply take the afore mentioned thoughts into consideration. For the sake of stronger player-developer relationships, for further collaborative dialogues between fellow players and Anet, and for the community/game that will require our support and input for years to come.

Space Cow.2431:

ArenaNet is being judged by the standards they built up for themselves.

You’re telling people to stop voicing reasonable concerns with a game that has blatantly gone against everything that was promised, a game that marketed itself on principles it has utterly disregarded.

Explain to me what good would it do for people to shut up and take it as if the problem had gone away? And how is any of that indicative of growing up?

I am thoroughly disgusted by this kind of attitude from consumers with far too much time and money on their hands not to care about the state of the industry. Problems need to be reported so that they may be fixed, and underhanded business tactics need to be exposed so that future gaming companies think twice before they screw over their playerbase.

I don’t think the op is suggesting that you don’t voice your concerns – But for the most part, there have been odd conspiracy theories, organized attempts to tank the game on other websites, and just lots of completely misplaced anger and blatantly illogical statements.

None of this is about me, of course, but when I first began to read statements from concerned parties about the new updates to the game and addition of a tier system, I too was faintly concerned with them… And then everything flew so boldly out of proportion that it became immensely obvious that a lot of these arguments were no longer based in reason, but some kind of rage that went way beyond what the situation called for and was entirely encouraged by a certain minority of the game’s playerbase.

Interestingly enough, to my own sense of morbid interest if no one else’s, a lot of the most upset gamers complain rabidly about warcraft players and warcraft ideas, which is easy enough to understand, but then they join warcraft players in tanking the game’s reviews for the same reason – its not the game they wanted to play, so anything good about it simply doesn’t exist and, to them, the game deserves a one-star review out of spite.

Some of the statements and threads that have been on these forums since the patch have been a little bizarre and demanding – not just demanding of the developers, but demanding on the rest of the playerbase to concede the game that the minority of players want. Even after getting refunds, some of these former players have stuck around just to remind everyone how angry they are.

I think Arena Net has received your message – And I think they’re a stand-up group. I’m not going to be upset if they implement changes to try and keep you as a customer, but if that announcement never comes, I would have to question the integrity of a decision to stick around and make sure everyone knows you’re still quite very upset with the state of things, especially if efforts to ruin the game’s sales, and thus the future community of the game for those of us who still enjoy it, continue.

I think OP makes a good point most of the makers of games LOVE there game and these ppl have put a lot of work into GW2 do you guys truly think they want it to fail? Have you guys every worked or something with all your heart and did every thing in your power to make it work? I am not saying hope for the best and say nothing but do not think the aim is to fail the game and its community.

Oh how I agree with the author. I was hoping to be quite active on the Guild Wars 2 Forums when they were announced but getting on here and just seeing so much QQ, i decided to stay away. I come on to check to see if anything worthwhile has been posted but mostly people complaining for the sake of complaining. If this is the best way you can spend your time, posting hyperbole-filled complaints over this game that apparently you despise and never want to play again, you seriously need a hobby.

Anet doesn’t know how to deal with players. Players are looking for solid answers, like:

Feedback #1: No we won’t do this.

Feedback #2: Yes we will implement this, but this is where were at.

Feedback #3: This is a sticky topic that we’re still being opened about for discussion

Instead Anet’s comments are more like “the object of this is to allow players (who clearly don’t mind grinding) have gear progression in the game”.

My response to this:

a) Then how about players who doesn’t want this? I see nobody wanting to have all these better stats involved with gear progression. Cosmetics are visual items for fun… not for stats, if I recall correctly. How in the world is that not going out and saying “we are allowing players to farm items for stats” ie. we want you to ‘be able to grind’.

b) Whatever Ascended gears was for, the reality is that you have to grind to get it. I see no worse not having it, unless you’re supporting the fact that grinding for better stat gear is a philosophy that this game supports.

Summary of the Key Points: Somehow Anet took our suggestions and turn it into “gear progression by stats”. This leads me to think that in reality, they don’t really take in player feedback into consideration, because I’ve been around the forums for awhile and nobody mentioned that they wanted to be able to grind gears for their stats.

And I’m more bewildered about this more than anything else. Grinding gear is not a fun way to progress content, 99% of the players played GW2 (including myself) played this game because it’s suppose to not have stuffs that bad MMOs have ie. having better gears = grinding = spending hours in-game to acquire items that will make you better than other players.

You want this game to be skill-based and yet casual. It’s like a mountain of logic flaws reigning down on Anet this past month; makes me wonder who’s actually running the show (is it still Anet?)

sinisterpink.7912:

(new tier of gear, but only a few pieces released). These changes have not unbalanced the game yet.

You perfectly said it.

Theses changes have not unbalanced the game YET

Even if, if you look at the fractal party creation you will clearly see how it divide the players.
After fractal lvl 12 ( i guess ) you HAVE to have the ascended stuff WITH the agony protection

Mean waste at least 20++ gold for the craft, and farm i dont know how many time the lvl 10-12 fractal to get the ring you want AND craft again a agony protection.

Did that for you represent what GW2 should be ? Did that allow player to enjoy whatever content, play with whatever player – create a party and go for fun ?

I dont think so.

Imagine, it’s start like that with only a few piece release like you said, how it would be when you will have to farm for a entier ascended armor set + all jewel + all weapons.

No offence, but use your brain a bit, because trying to minimise the huge change it will cause in the game wont change the FACT. Especialy when GW2 was sold AS A NONE mandatory ( I strongly insist on the word mandatory ) grinding game. And a large majority bought the game BECAUSE of that.

If you really cant imagine… i can only be really sorry for you for beeing a nice sheep blinded by the nice Anet words to persent their gear treadmill.
( especialy, if you read may post about the ascended gear, you can find a LOT of post with perfect explanation, who are not kids whinning post )
———————————————————————————————————————-

Also, all post who desagree with each Anet word dont create a perfect environement for communication.

You want to be the whit knight who defend the princess, but, did they annonce honestly that they clearly want to introduce gear treadmill to make happy the grinder addict minority ? ( and totaly break the manifesto ) no. They just used a snake language considering players dumb enough to not understand the meaning of "ascended gear “progression” exotic – legendary “gap filling” ( thoses nice magic words )

Did they honestly answer about the ascended gear after the post with 202 pages against the ascended stuff ? not a single second.

Did they wrote a SINGLE word about ascended gear problem here ?
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/chris-whiteside-on-the-lost-shores-and-beyond/

Not a single second.
They just hide the unhappy majority saying that everyone gave awesome positive reaction toward the new content. which is totaly wrong.
Avoid the truth wont help at all.

Basicly, Anet reap what they sow. Nothing else.

Not mentioning of the “skill balance” who is nothing else that the worse job i ever see in ALL the GW history.
They should really be ashamed doing a such bad work. Seriously.

Many people, myself included, bought the game and gems->gold based on the clearly advertised pretext (and the legacy of 7 years of grindless gameplay in GW1) that this was not going to be a gear treadmill game.

3 months in, the whole game philosophy has been flipped. I would not have bought gems if I had known that exotics would not be end-game game, nor would I have bought the game had I thought it would be just another WOW-clone gear-grinding model.

Are we overreacting? no – because real money has been spent based on a set of representations prior to release and then the product has been fundamentally changed since purchase. It’s a clear case of false advertising. If you purchase a bread-making machine which 3 months after purchase now expects you make the dough yourself or buy “dough packets” from the local store every month you would be rightly angry, would you not?

There was numerous ways they could have introduced PVE-based progression in a way that did not require additional gear levels, eg: agony resistance runes, or simply infusions as a new form of enchantment.

That 12K thread probably had more posts + views in it than the rest of that sub-forum since release combined. The players deserve an explanation and none has been forthcoming, which has only served to anger people more.

…I nearly fell into the trap myself, and then I stopped and considered what possible purpose it could serve in this particular thread. The answer is that it could have none whatsoever, because this thread, intentionally or unintentionally, is a troll thread.

Yes, hear me out. Whether you meant it to be or not, it is something that could only ever fan the flames without actually having any direct bearing on the causes. People have substantive and deeply held concerns regarding the direction the game has lately taken, but this thread is nothing but a “metadiscourse” – a discussion about the discussion, and as such, neither solves nor contributes anything.

Did you ever pause when creating it to consider what possible benefit it might have to anyone? Did you not realize that the only possible reaction it could induce was yet more acrimony? You have only helped to spawn more of that which you are attempting to self-righteously decry. If you were truly committed to cleansing the forums of that, you would have known not to create another such thread.

I trust you’ll think more carefully before acting in future.

The biggest haters of the game are those who loved it most a week ago. There is no greater enemy to a game than a fanboi betrayed. I’ve gone from supporting this game with my heart and soul to wanting to see it burn miserably to the ground, and I’ll be neither quiet nor apologetic about it.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

…I nearly fell into the trap myself, and then I stopped and considered what possible purpose it could serve in this particular thread. The answer is that it could have none whatsoever, because this thread, intentionally or unintentionally, is a troll thread.

Yes, hear me out. Whether you meant it to be or not, it is something that could only ever fan the flames without actually having any direct bearing on the causes. People have substantive and deeply held concerns regarding the direction the game has lately taken, but this thread is nothing but a “metadiscourse” – a discussion about the discussion, and as such, neither solves nor contributes anything.

Did you ever pause when creating it to consider what possible benefit it might have to anyone? Did you not realize that the only possible reaction it could induce was yet more acrimony? You have only helped to spawn more of that which you are attempting to self-righteously decry. If you were truly committed to cleansing the forums of that, you would have known not to create another such thread.

I trust you’ll think more carefully before acting in future.

There is a stickied thread that pretty much mirrors the sentiment in this one. I’d say it has its place on the forum. Perhaps it could be merged, but really, saying that an open discussion about how forums posters may or may not have an affect on proceeding communications with the dev, is unjustified and out of place on the General Discussion forum is a bit out of whack.

There are currently an absolute ton of cycled threads that devolve into the same discussion as the 12k Threadnaught. This thread applies to all of them and if anything, serves to give reason and logic a place to be heard over the bedlam that is the GD forum.

edit: punctuation

Rhotsbin.8579:

The biggest haters of the game are those who loved it most a week ago. There is no greater enemy to a game than a fanboi betrayed. I’ve gone from supporting this game with my heart and soul to wanting to see it burn miserably to the ground, and I’ll be neither quiet nor apologetic about it.

And with that attitude you are helping no one and only wallowing in a self destructive attitude that will lead you to not be happy. It’s not productive and it’s not very healthy to be completely honest.

I agree with the OP. But it’s not something that can change. People always have and will whine on the forums. Not just on these forums. It doesn’t even matter how successful the game is. I still remember the whining I saw on WoW and LoL forums about how those games would inveitably fail because they didn’t deliver on whatever the whining was about. Obviously it made about as much sense as it does here.

At first the majority of the whining was about dungeon rewards and difficulties and when Anet fixed that, without so much as a thank you the QQers went on to whine about the bots acting like they would never go away and that everything was ruined forever. But obviously that wasn’t the case. OBVIOUSLY Anet did ban the majority of the bots. What did you think would happen? According to the posts you’d think Anet wanted them there or they just didn’t care about it. Again, if there was a thank you post about the bots I must have missed it because it was drowned out in the next big thing that players decided to QQ about which is the Lost Shores patch.

Sure there’s a lot to complain about but the method certain posters are using is disgusting imo. Some people are acting like they’re Anet’s boss, demanding apologies and their future plans on the table by monday. Some people use scare tactics trying to find “evidence” about how this game is already failing.

Honestly I think it’s all about attention. There’s people that are legitimately criticising the game, but then there’s also the drama queens using unnecessary rhethoric trying to realize some kind of self importance by trying to incite a witch hunt against Anet.

SHM.7628:

Balony! Many of the people who voice complaints cared deeply for the game. They anticipated it for years. They even pre-purchased it. What’s more these same players were ignored and constatly told to leave if they didn’t like it. Well, they did. Now the maps are empty.

If you see tons of complaints about the same thing then chances are they are not made up. Because you disagree with them you call them a minority. Then why are the servers empty? No, You are the minority They voted, they left. I for one heard them loud and clearly!

Furthermore, Anet did deviate from their manifesto. They had a player base from GW1 that was locked in too. They bought the game on good faith. The Devs betrayed them.

last but not least, they gave one game through the betas and the first 3 weeks, and trhen basically took that game back and replaced it with an inferior substitute. Yet some how you think those players are to blame?

You misunderstand me. I agree that the complainants care deeply about the game— that doesn’t undo the fact that through exaggeration and hyperbole, some of them are doing a disservice to the game and community.

On my server, at least, the maps are far from empty. I would also suggest that those who are most vocal and negative about things like the Lost Shores event etc are the least likely to quit the game. People don’t get overly-worked-up about games that they’re likely to just play for a short while and then drop.

The only thing that has happened is that the players who complained about no end game content, ended up getting their content. Unfortunately now the rest of the players who don’t care about the end game content, feel like they have to get the end game content too.

GADefence.5634:

“On a side note, I’ve noticed a significant increase in activity on lower-level maps since Monday.”

That’s probably because all the free trial people bought the game.

“using your swamp example, set up the mall at the edge of the swamp is perfect ! its what I am saying people should say but instead people are saying the people in charge of building the mall are liars because they promised us a mall which they didnt manage to build (before even giving them a chance to do anything about it!)”

Actually, it’s more like the people who built the mall charging you 70$ to enter the mall saying there’s an observatory at the back that lets you look into the swamp only to discover that instead it’s an escalator that goes up and down.

Every mall has an escalator. I wouldn’t have payed 70$ to enter a mall with an escalator. Either build the observatory your already took my money and promising me was there, or give me my money back since you lied.

Only the observatory is there. I mean its not like just cause they added one single new tier suddenly the game changed from what it was before! Its true its not something we appriciated and was totally un-needed but it still didnt introduce the main problem of vertical progression at least so far! I dont know about you but my main problem with vertical progression is that you will hit a wall unless you keep up with that progression in such MMOs. You took it easy and dont have the best gear? well sorry this new area will be undoable for you and there is nothing you can do about it until you get that gear! None of that is in the game! even Exotics arent needed to play absolutely every single shred of content in the game and again that didnt change! So far its just fear that such a thing might happen nothing more!

For me personally, cant speak for everyone else, I havent even finished my full exotic set not because I dont play enough, because I could log on right now and finish it in less then 5mins, but rather because I dont feel I need to, in fact I am happier not doing it why? the game is already easy as is, more stats will make it even easier! As things stand right now the game for me is more enjoyable without ascended gear then if I had to have it! So having no ascended gear definitely doesnt make you hit a wall in any way!

I like how Gear Grinding Raiders cry and kitten about having Phat lootz and raids and 20 man content, all of which is probably coming now ( puke). And as soon as they get what they want and kitten everyone else over they act like they have been victimized somehow. Locust kittens.

Mesket.5728:

Forum comunity is not representative for the player base… the real players are there playing and not posting here.

If they are not posting here, that means they dont care about the game.
Players feedback is what every mmo NEEDS to get better, improve, evolve.

Those players who dont bring their opinions to the table about the game and give devs some ideas are useless to the community.

LordByron.8369:

Icas.3860:

On a side note, I’ve noticed a significant increase in activity on lower-level maps since Monday. .

i saw pink elephants in the sky trust me…..

Any proof?
Any statuistical evidence?

Well i think most of us have seen and heard low lvl areas are deserted…

There are many factors that come into play, bet activity in low level area changes drastrically from server to server. Competitive players the ones that say rushed to join the servers that were persived to have the best WvW groups will likely have more deserted low level zones because such players are more likely to spend their time farming the most rewarding content. They are also full which means no influx of new players.

There are other players like me who would avoid such servers like the plague because I just have a different play style and dont integrate well with that culture. I play the game for fun not to be the best! I am on piken square, the unofficial RP server for europe. I always have see lots of people running around in queensdale. Sometimes there like entire crowds! This week I didnt notice any increase but there are times when that seems to happen.

Bottom line no server is probably representative of a whole eitherway

Looria.8019:

Mesket.5728:

Forum comunity is not representative for the player base… the real players are there playing and not posting here.

If they are not posting here, that means they dont care about the game.
Players feedback is what every mmo NEEDS to get better, improve, evolve.

Those players who dont bring their opinions to the table about the game and give devs some ideas are useless to the community.

Correction, if they’re not posting here it means they care about the game enough to be GLUED to it, and they also LIKE IT THE WAY IT IS.

The people complaining about a lack of a gear grind were the vast minority

ANet will NEVER retain these people. WoW has them beat hands down in their coddling of elitist snobs and gating of heroics, raids, etc.

Just give them 90 days and most of them will have moved on. They’re called locusts. This is nothing new.

plasmacutter.2709:

Looria.8019:

Mesket.5728:

Forum comunity is not representative for the player base… the real players are there playing and not posting here.

If they are not posting here, that means they dont care about the game.
Players feedback is what every mmo NEEDS to get better, improve, evolve.

Those players who dont bring their opinions to the table about the game and give devs some ideas are useless to the community.

Correction, if they’re not posting here it means they care about the game enough to be GLUED to it, and they also LIKE IT THE WAY IT IS.

The people complaining about a lack of a gear grind were the vast minority

ANet will NEVER retain these people. WoW has them beat hands down in their coddling of elitist snobs and gating of heroics, raids, etc.

Unfortunately it was the vast minority that got their gear grind in the end, too the expense of the other players it seems. How did they get this? I guess it’s because they posted in the forums. Maybe if everyone took note of the forums none of this would have happend. In the end, the forums had nothing about people enjoying the game, and only people not enjoying it. So I guess from a developers point of view, people aren’t enjoying the game, since no one is saying they are.

ebrown.8193:

Just give them 90 days and most of them will have moved on. They’re called locusts. This is nothing new.

Apparently in this case, they’re destroying even the parts they don’t want to eat before they move on.

Do locusts in real life eat the topsoil too?

For every action, there is a reaction. I don’t completely disagree with your post but Anet is just as much to blame. Some complaints are valid and fueled by very poor decisions, post and promises on Anets part.

Don’t make promises you can’t keep, don’t advertise a game as a certain design then pull a 180, don’t visit class forums promising fixes and buffs and then not deliver.

You will always have people who just want to complain for the sake of complaining, but that does not mean Anet should not be held accountable for their own actions.

Looria.8019:

Mesket.5728:

Forum comunity is not representative for the player base… the real players are there playing and not posting here.

If they are not posting here, that means they dont care about the game.
Players feedback is what every mmo NEEDS to get better, improve, evolve.

Those players who dont bring their opinions to the table about the game and give devs some ideas are useless to the community.

. . . so let’s see, on the one hand I owe it to the game and community to come here and make my opinions known. On the other hand, if I don’t pick a side I don’t deserve to speak . . . yeah.

I’ve put my thoughts up over a half-dozen topics, including some more thoughtful works over at the “human nature” thread. I’ve added to the appeal to please . . . please keep this polite and not overly confrontational. I’ve revised opinions and backtracked once on seeing someone actually volunteer numbers.

In this, I’ve been called an apologist, been told I’m an idiot and not worth listening to, and at least one stellar person had to catch me on an overflow to tell me I was an example of why the game was going to fail and I should go back to grinding in WoW.

(And no, I don’t play WoW.)

So, tell me, in the face of this kind of reaction to trying to hold a fairly MODERATE position . . . why shoulkittenep talking and inviting more of this or worse? With so much of this being “you’re with us or against us” flying around, what is the point to trying?

I still want to be an asset to the community but . . . Kormir on a Spear some of you make this hard.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Looria.8019:

Mesket.5728:

Forum comunity is not representative for the player base… the real players are there playing and not posting here.

If they are not posting here, that means they dont care about the game.
Players feedback is what every mmo NEEDS to get better, improve, evolve.

Those players who dont bring their opinions to the table about the game and give devs some ideas are useless to the community.

. . . so let’s see, on the one hand I owe it to the game and community to come here and make my opinions known. On the other hand, if I don’t pick a side I don’t deserve to speak . . . yeah.

I’ve put my thoughts up over a half-dozen topics, including some more thoughtful works over at the “human nature” thread. I’ve added to the appeal to please . . . please keep this polite and not overly confrontational. I’ve revised opinions and backtracked once on seeing someone actually volunteer numbers.

In this, I’ve been called an apologist, been told I’m an idiot and not worth listening to, and at least one stellar person had to catch me on an overflow to tell me I was an example of why the game was going to fail and I should go back to grinding in WoW.

(And no, I don’t play WoW.)

So, tell me, in the face of this kind of reaction to trying to hold a fairly MODERATE position . . . why shoulkittenep talking and inviting more of this or worse? With so much of this being “you’re with us or against us” flying around, what is the point to trying?

I still want to be an asset to the community but . . . Kormir on a Spear some of you make this hard.

What are the raw numbers you have gathered?

If you want to calm the fury with empiricism, then I suggest a new thread with real numbers, but don’t be surprised if people don’t agree with your assessment of those numbers.

Mesket.5728:

Forum comunity is not representative for the player base… the real players are there playing and not posting here.

Thats just one side of the medal. My whole guild of 35 members just quitted playing without leaving a single word here because of the treadmillpatch. I am the only one who writes here. And I consider me as a real player that cares about the game as it was promised.

I appreciate the irony that this thread has the most personal attacks and talking past each other of any thread I’ve read on these forums.

Maybe it is true that forums posts are the worst thing that happened to this game.

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Looria.8019:

Mesket.5728:

Forum comunity is not representative for the player base… the real players are there playing and not posting here.

If they are not posting here, that means they dont care about the game.
Players feedback is what every mmo NEEDS to get better, improve, evolve.

Those players who dont bring their opinions to the table about the game and give devs some ideas are useless to the community.

. . . so let’s see, on the one hand I owe it to the game and community to come here and make my opinions known. On the other hand, if I don’t pick a side I don’t deserve to speak . . . yeah.

I’ve put my thoughts up over a half-dozen topics, including some more thoughtful works over at the “human nature” thread. I’ve added to the appeal to please . . . please keep this polite and not overly confrontational. I’ve revised opinions and backtracked once on seeing someone actually volunteer numbers.

In this, I’ve been called an apologist, been told I’m an idiot and not worth listening to, and at least one stellar person had to catch me on an overflow to tell me I was an example of why the game was going to fail and I should go back to grinding in WoW.

(And no, I don’t play WoW.)

So, tell me, in the face of this kind of reaction to trying to hold a fairly MODERATE position . . . why shoulkittenep talking and inviting more of this or worse? With so much of this being “you’re with us or against us” flying around, what is the point to trying?

I still want to be an asset to the community but . . . Kormir on a Spear some of you make this hard.

What are the raw numbers you have gathered?

If you want to calm the fury with empiricism, then I suggest a new thread with real numbers, but don’t be surprised if people don’t agree with your assessment of those numbers.

The numbers are off Dulfy’s site in screenshot format. You can find it, I believe in you …

In short, the ring “Vine of the Pale Tree” has more Power, Vitality, and Critical Damage but not as much Precision as the closest analog, “Ruby Orichalcum Ring”. They figure out to 20% and I was sure it wasn’t as large until I got to look at them side by side myself instead of one and then the other later.

However, my Ranger . . . and I just looked only has 1846 Power. The ring would be a +30 jump, so . . . mmm, round 0.016 upwards . . .

I don’t think this is worth a new thread, though, I’ll just leave this here for people to see. It’s not empiricism, it’s just numbers. I do not know the full extent of how a +30 jump will affect damage output for other characters (though if their base Power is higher than mine is as a Ranger, I’ve got theories).

I concur with the OP and it needed to be said. I’ll be the first to admit I’ve made some posts concerning some bugs / issues that I’m sure came off a bit more emotionally charged than I had intended. The ongoing “Invulnerable” mob glitch so prevalent in under water battles leaps to mind, heh. Often I intend ironic or sardonic humor in the form of flatly ridiculous over reaction but that doesn’t always translate to everyone with the written word, especially amongst total strangers. I do try to express that I haven’t lost all realistic perspective and am aware that I’m really just speaking about a video game though.

To put myself in the shoes of an A-Net Rep. whose job may be to engage in dialog with consumers on these forums (if there even is such a job description at A-Net) I have to wonder how I could respectfully respond to a post stating something along the lines that:

“A-Net has irretrievably and permanantly shattered all faith and trust in the company’s name and that a full on campaign of life long sanction and boycott is being leveled against it because they released two rings, 1 backpack and an upgrade slot which has been determined to be a stark violation (or at least clearly portend of one) of some perceived iron clad oath against any and all ‘vertical progression’, along with a new ‘end game’ 5 man dungeon with a tiered progress structure.”

Personally, I just can’t fathom how I could treat such a discussion point and the person who is spun up into such an emotional torrent over it with an honest reciprocation of a similar level of dire seriousness. I think I’d be stifling laughter at such unbelievably gross over reaction and melodrama (much as many people with an appropriate perspective on something like relatively minor changes to a video game).

Such seemingly visceral and venom filled posts pop up on the forums of every on-line game I can recall being interested enough to visit the forums of in the past several years though. These kinds of posts have progressively grown more and more dire and fatalistic though, today and in the recent past. To the point where these days people are jumping right out there with in a month or two of release and swearing that they will never patronize whoever the offending game producer du jour is because their evil and egregious outright lies were obviously engineered solely to fleece their consumers.

That taken with the observation that when an A-Net Representative does make an announcement or public response, a very measured and cautious statement, as the OP correctly points out. Literally the content volume of a novel or text book is composed in the aggregate by nearly every ‘voice on the forums’ with in 24 hours. Filled with almost nothing but pure venom for the OP and then among the community members in disagreement as well.

Take the WvW “night capping” issue for example. A-Net responded after due consideration that there would be no adjustment made to the “weight” of any players accomplishments no matter their playing “prime time”. You had two groups of players with polar opposite points of view yet equivalently strong feelings about their differing perspectives. A decision had to be made one way or the other and there was no room for any “political” comprimise. As sure as the Sun rises in the East too, one of those two strongly commited groups was going to be pleased and one displeased. Every bit as certain, a vocal portion of those displeased were going to launch a bitter and scathing verbal campaign in response.

It’s really obvious, to me at least, why as a mouthpiece for A-Net on these forums any response here would be handled as briefly and delicately as a Faberge Egg, and only when absolutely necessary. Otherwise, no matter how benign A-Net’s intent, any “contact” on the open community forums would just be kicking a hornet’s nest. Hornets who nit pick, “research” and cast conjecture on every syllable and utterance until the original statement and it’s intent is so twisted up and spun that the person who wrote it probably can’t even tell what they were trying to say anymore.

Is anyone aware that the legendary gear is going to be upgraded to ascended level as they continue to release more?

bman.1683:

Is anyone aware that the legendary gear is going to be upgraded to ascended level as they continue to release more?

It’s being termed irrelevant for a number of reasons, the largest one being: “it wouldn’t be necessary to do that if Ascended wasn’t introduced in the first place”.

“The Worst thing that has happened to GW2”

I can tell you what the worst thing that happened to Guild Wars 2.

It was the influx of dissatisfied WoW players upon release, now we have to suffer their countless complaints and rage quit topics. I can not wait till a year from now when they all got bored and already moved onto the next hyped MMO.