The Zerg!

The Zerg!

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Crazylegsmurphy.6430

Crazylegsmurphy.6430

I’ve been trying to come up with solutions to the problem of “zerging” in this game.

http://www.mmmyeah.com/GW2/GW2-Seizure-02.jpg

I’m aware that ANet’s stace seems to be that if we just wait long enough, players will spread out. The problem is that it’s not feasible to just wait it out, nor does it account for the new players, and players for other home worlds branching out.

So, I figured I would create this topic so we could all discuss ideas that ANet could consider.

1. Scale up, and out

There was a brilliant post the other day proposing the idea that the game needs scale not only in numbers, but in tactics/ intelligence.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/events/We-need-Outward-Scaling-not-just-Upward/first#post125798

I think that ultimately this solution is the best. It would not only make tha game feel much more alive, but force players to spread out and fight. Right now, the game encourages blobs and forces players to bunch up.

2. Consequences

I play a lot of FPS games and I can tell you that there is a definite difference in how people play when the game type doesn’t allow a respawn. People start using caution and tactics because they realize that there are consequences to dying in the game.

In GW2, you can’t ever truely die. If you call in battle, all you have to do is wait, and you’ll be revived shortly. If you happen to die, you can just teleport to the closest waypoint, quickly repair, and you’re back in the battle, no problem.

This means that there is no consequence to just rushing head on into a battle and spamming the attack button.

The dumbing down of video games in recent years is a whole other topic, bu the fact is that until there is a real consequence to dying, people won’t hesitate to just blast into battle without thought or care.

It also takes away most of the feeling of anticipation and excitement when you know there is no consequence to dying. If most players are like me, they sit there “dead faced” just clicking buttons until the enemy dies.

I would like to year your thoughts.

The Zerg!

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Posted by: Eochaidh.4106

Eochaidh.4106

No matter how much strategy they throw into it, when you get 20 people on the same foe, it will become a mindless zergfest with no tactics.

I wouldn’t suggest adding a death penalty at all, because that would actually encourage zergplay as people would prefer to progress safely in the game. I wouldn’t consider the death penalty as having anything to do with games being dumbed down though.

I think we really should just be patient and wait for the populace to spread out. Unfortunately, given how scaling works, I think pretty much everyone will be crowding in Orr. Scaling down should be rewarding and challenging too. We can’t be limited to the few end zones.

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Posted by: DirtyHoudini.2917

DirtyHoudini.2917

I think another reason why people globb together is because once they go into down state they want a 100% reassurance that someone will see them, increasing their chances to just be revived.

The Zerg!

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Posted by: Crazylegsmurphy.6430

Crazylegsmurphy.6430

No matter how much strategy they throw into it, when you get 20 people on the same foe, it will become a mindless zergfest with no tactics.

I wouldn’t suggest adding a death penalty at all, because that would actually encourage zergplay as people would prefer to progress safely in the game. I wouldn’t consider the death penalty as having anything to do with games being dumbed down though.

I think we really should just be patient and wait for the populace to spread out. Unfortunately, given how scaling works, I think pretty much everyone will be crowding in Orr. Scaling down should be rewarding and challenging too. We can’t be limited to the few end zones.

Not sure I agree. Death penalties create situations in which you must evaluate risk vs. reward. If there is a huge risk to just running head on into an enemy, then you’ll need to change the way you do things.

I also don’t think the waiting until players spread out is a viable solution. I’ve seen players of all levels and races running around. Players are constantly starting the game, and new characters. Not only that, but when big events happen, the word goes out and everyone starts showing up.

Because waypoints allow for such fast travel, players can get to events within minutes. I could get to a world event in less than two minutes from anywhere in the world pending load times.

That, and it’s not fair for anyone to have to stifle their game progress just because ANet couldn’t foresee this issue. The solution is not to discourage players from participating, the solution is to reevaluate how the game works with large numbers of players.

The Zerg!

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Posted by: TrickSmartly.7391

TrickSmartly.7391

Hardcore WvW maps sounds like a great idea. Once you die in that map you’re given a 30 minute delay until you can join that map again. No more wait to join since players will be dropping fast and booted from the map. You could be able to join one of the other maps though while waiting for the timer to run down. The penalty will still be there but won’t stop players from being able to join a new game because they died once.

The Zerg!

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Posted by: Crazylegsmurphy.6430

Crazylegsmurphy.6430

I think another reason why people globb together is because once they go into down state they want a 100% reassurance that someone will see them, increasing their chances to just be revived.

I think you’re right. The good, and bad thing about WoW was when you die, you’re required to run all the way back into battle for the closest graveyard ( which could be quite far away), or Rez, at the expense of losing a lot of gear. This system works because, while annoying, solves two issues.

1. It removes players from the battle.

As people die, they’re physically requireed to run back to the battle. This means that the number of players is naturally thinned.

2. There are real consequences to dying.

I remember times when I was very conservative while fighting creatures in that game because I knew that dying would result in me having to make some serious choices. In GW2, its so easy to get back into battle, that dying isn’t even something I care about or consider.

What if perhaps there were a penalty for using a waypoint in battle? Say a message that would pop up dating that of you travel now, two random items will be removed from your inventory?

The Zerg!

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Posted by: Crazylegsmurphy.6430

Crazylegsmurphy.6430

Hardcore WvW maps sounds like a great idea. Once you die in that map you’re given a 30 minute delay until you can join that map again. No more wait to join since players will be dropping fast and booted from the map. You could be able to join one of the other maps though while waiting for the timer to run down. The penalty will still be there but won’t stop players from being able to join a new game because they died once.

I’m all for solutions like this. I come from the old school Nintendo era where games were friggin hard, so I’m totally used to games penalizing me for not taking my time and doing my best.

GW2 was developed to be accessble to the widest range of players possible. The consequence, as it is with any game with this goal, is that it has to hold the hands of players. Take the Lego series. In Lego Indiana Jones, you can’t die. It’s impossible.

This is so kids can finish the came if they just put in enough tries. Compare this to older games like Mega Man, where is you died, you were going to have to do the entire level over. P

Sure, this can be frustrating for players not that good at video games, but the fact is that if something is too easy, then people become complacent and lazy. It makes me sad that I can just mash buttons (the game will even attack for me if I choose) until the boss dies.

In contrast…last night my girlfriend and I did her personal story and were required to kill a level 50 boss and about fifteen minions. We tried the two man Zerg rush and got owned. We resorted to me using my “pull” ability to separate the minions and kill them.

To die was to lose since we couldn’t get close enough to each other, and if we both went down we would have to start over from the checkpoint. In the end we had to use tactics which took us over 45 minutes to do. It was also one of the most fun I’ve had in the game and realized that worst part about this MMO is the MMO part.

Every battle in which there were a small number of players against hard enemies has been fun. Every battle where it’s been a giant blob of players has been unfulfilling and boring.

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Posted by: Derpinator.2894

Derpinator.2894

This whole issue must be a terrible balancing act for developers, but I believe it really comes down to giving players options, and rewarding “better” players.

If you want this game as it stands, you play in normal mode. Nothing changes.

If you want a challenge you play in “mid-core” mode, where if you don’t die, you get rewarded. Not just achievement points, but actual rewards for thoughtful play.

If you want to be a true hardkitten you play in hardcore mode, where you only get one death per toon, but huge rewards for making it.

The current system of mild punishments for death is just lame. And I hope with all my heart it dies soon.

Rewards work better in games than punishments. Choices work better than predefined scenarios.

I don’t think this is controversial or hard to understand.

edit: Oh, and this requires that you actually tune your game before release for all levels and options.

This one has SERIOUS issues at higher levels because of poor beta testing policy. If no on gets a chance to play the higher level content, no one can comment on it. Thus: Orr.

(edited by Derpinator.2894)

The Zerg!

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Posted by: Salt.4621

Salt.4621

I agree, the zerg mentality really needs some addressing. It cheapens the experience, makes most events feel almost identical and it takes away any strategic element involoved in playing the game. I loved the idea that players could work together with combos to defeat encounters. It is generally such a mess of spell effects, players, mobs and stuff on the ground that you really cant make out whats what or when mobs are animating an attack. That is probably the most disappointing thing about this game. The zerg and its consequences.

“Your face is funny. All squished and weird.”