The actual problem of the current situation

The actual problem of the current situation

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Posted by: KGS.9842

KGS.9842

Ok since I see lot’s of confusion going on I’d like to put the problem of the HoT sale in it’s current state as clearly as possible, using facts

first of all I have noticed lot’s of people complaining about stuff that is not at all problematic, which diverts attention from the real problem – the inequality created between two groups of players when it comes to the purchase of the expansion. So I’d like to start with what the problem of the sale is NOT:

1) It is not the price – anet has the right to choose whatever price they want for their product
2) It is not the lack of a character slot included in the standard edition – anet can freely choose what to include in it, and what not to include
3) It is not new players receiving the “free bonus” however It is the conditions under which they receive it (I am all for giving new players the core game for free)

As you all know the purchase of the expansion comes with a “free bonus” which is exclusive to new players. The expansion will never be sold separately for a reduced price (confirmed by support in a mail to me). So here is the situation as it stands:

1) we have 2 user groups: new players and old players
2) both groups pay the same price
3) the products they get in return are not equal of value:
*new players get core game + expansion (“free bonus”)
*old players get expansion
4) if the old players wish to obtain the “free bonus” they are forced to give up their current progress in the game, and create a new account

Thus the group of the new players is receiving preferential treatment, which is simply put, unfair towards the old players who either have to sacrifice the “free bonus”, or their in-game progress, since they are not, and will not be able to buy the expansion separately for a reduced price.

The solution is simple:
A) Give the “free bonus” to everyone, a key for the core game goes to whoever upgrades their account
B) Provide something else to players who are not getting the “free bonus” in order to equalize the value of their purchase
The bottom line is this everyone should get the “free bonus” for it to be an actual free bonus

I will anticipate two counter arguments now, using quotes from my fellow forum users:
1) This is the same as a previous discounts, signing bonus, new member bonus, etc., etc.:


Your comparisons make no sense.
This isn’t some discount/bargain sale like the ones they did so far.
While the product bought was the same, since it was bought during different timeframes, it was perfectly reasonable to have discounts.
But now both veterans and new players are buying the exact same product – that is, Heart of Thorns – at the same time, from the same place, at the same price.
And both should receive the same thing – a copy of the base game, and the expansion.
By Manuhell.2759

2) You have already played the game for X time, and you should be grateful for everything you have:


Because me having the game earlier than said new players and having all the rewards they missed out on was not a random happening – it was a choice.
I chose to buy the game and they chose not to. I spent money on it and they did not.
So in a sense they could have had all these things if they at the same time as me had made the same choice. They chose differently and their choice leads to them not having these items and rewards.

The problem is that in the situation we have now I have no choice. See – they could have bought the game back then. But I have no choice when Anet decides to focus on them and ignore veteran players. It was decided for me.
By Harper.4173

(the quotes were cut to only show the relevant bits, I had trouble embedding actuals quotes in spoilers, so the names of the insightful users are added below)

I am of course free to any critique about my understanding of the situation, provided it is based on actual facts, and not personal feelings of devotion towards the devs
(also feel free to call me names and speculate as to how evil and jealous I am, I am not insulted easily, and it makes me feel like you have nothing to offer in the way of actual counter arguments)

The actual problem of the current situation

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Posted by: PookieDaWombat.6209

PookieDaWombat.6209

I see no reason to give Anet anymore money and am frankly | | this close to reporting Anet for dubious business practices.

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Posted by: zombyturtle.5980

zombyturtle.5980

I agree with you. I would personally like the option to receive another new account with Hot even if i dont use hot on that particular one. I have no issue with the core game being cheaper, or even free to new players, games value drops over time after all, but I would like to have the same access as a new player to the cheaper core account.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

I am of course free to any critique about my understanding of the situation, provided it is based on actual facts

Perfectly reasonable.

1) we have 2 user groups: new players and old players
2) both groups pay the same price
3) the products they get in return are not equal of value:
*new players get core game + expansion (“free bonus”)
*old players get expansion

You are correct in saying that the products are not equal in value.
*everyone purchasing the expansion gets the core game plus HoT.

  • veterans get the option to connect HoT to an existing account.

The inequality you describe as existing in the expansion favors the veterans as they have access to everything that the new player does plus an option that a new player does not have access to.

The actual problem of the current situation

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Posted by: KGS.9842

KGS.9842

firstly they still don’t get the “free bonus”, and thus they do not “have access to everything that the new player does”, if they did there wouldn’t be a problem in the first place

more importantly this ’’option’’ does not provide any actual additional content inaccessible to the new players, other than what the old players have already paid for (basic account)

also the new players do basically the same thing only it is instantaneous – they get an account for the game which is immediately connected to HoT

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I see no reason to give Anet anymore money and am frankly | | this close to reporting Anet for dubious business practices.

This has already been tried with several other mmo gaming companies that have done exactly the same thing, if not worse, over the past several years.

Good luck with your jousting of windmills.

Forum discussions -
Mmo players with a screw loose vs mmo players with two screws loose. All very important stuff.
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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

firstly they still don’t get the “free bonus”, and thus they do not “have access to everything that the new player does”, if they did there wouldn’t be a problem in the first place

Yes they do. Every veteran has the same option to get a new account that includes both the core game and the expansion. If a veteran buys HoT without linking it to an existing account he has gotten exactly the same thing that a new players buying HoT would.

more importantly this ’’option’’ does not provide any actual additional content inaccessible to the new players, other than what the old players have already paid for (basic account)

Veterans have the ability to link the expansion content to a pre-existing account. By definition a new player does not have a pre-existing account.

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Posted by: nGumball.1283

nGumball.1283

I see no reason to give Anet anymore money and am frankly | | this close to reporting Anet for dubious business practices.

Your threat is going apparently to scare a gaming company..
Good luck I guess.

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Apparently, there are many here that never read the EULA. Almost all mmos include the the statement, “gaming experience may change at any time”.

Forum discussions -
Mmo players with a screw loose vs mmo players with two screws loose. All very important stuff.
-Zenleto-

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Apparently, there are many here that never read the EULA. Almost all mmos include the the statement, “gaming experience may change at any time”.

Not necessarily relevant. Depending on region the EULA may not be binding.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

My bank has a deal: new customers can get $100 for creating a new account of a certain kind, exactly like the one I have — I get nothing for maintaining my account.

My ISP has a deal, for new customers only. My mobile phone carrier has a deal, for new customers only.

It’s not that unusual for businesses to offer incentives for new customers that aren’t available to existing ones.

Mind you, I think ANet made a huge tactical mistake in doing so — there are dozens of posts about the PRICE and hardly any from people excited for the expansion. I always find it amusing when people accuse ANet of overhyping things, because this is yet another example of how terrible they are at hyping the most exciting things that they have done.

tl;dr nothing wrong imo with ANet’s price points or incentives for new players. Still, they made a big mistake in their choices.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: vincecontix.1264

vincecontix.1264

WoodenPotatoes pre-order review of HoT this video sums it up well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir

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Posted by: Ardenwolfe.8590

Ardenwolfe.8590

Thank you for the link! Watching now. Edit: He just about nailed every single concern I have and voiced them perfectly.

Gone to Reddit.

(edited by Ardenwolfe.8590)

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Posted by: Lilyandra.1465

Lilyandra.1465

How do you link the HOT purchase to your account?

They should have just cleared it up from the beginning. The expansion is 50$ ok. Great. You’re giving new players a chance to play the game without having to pay the extra 50$
Great.
But I’m sure some veteran players would like a discount on the price of the expansion, especially since the basic version doesn’t give anything to existing players, and I’m sure a lot of us will be spending 75$ to get those items that won’t be available otherwise.

The actual problem of the current situation

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Posted by: KGS.9842

KGS.9842

Yes they do. Every veteran has the same option to get a new account that includes both the core game and the expansion. If a veteran buys HoT without linking it to an existing account he has gotten exactly the same thing that a new players buying HoT would.

If you think it is fair that players are forced to choose between their existing progress, and the “free bonus”, there is no use in arguing (only note that then the bonus isn’t free because they have to give up upgrading their accounts for it)
I don’t think it is, hence my view on the situation

My bank has a deal: new customers can get $100 for creating a new account of a certain kind, exactly like the one I have — I get nothing for maintaining my account.

My ISP has a deal, for new customers only. My mobile phone carrier has a deal, for new customers only.
[…]

That is not the same thing, this is addressed in the 1st spoiler in my original post