Guild Wars 2

Soo after 2014, 2013, 2012 here is the 4th thread.

Any News about DirectX 11?

Any News about some engine upgrades? TressFX?

haha man grebcol you are a poor guy.Strong like leonidas you ask every year about that =D but true since 2012 there are no news about it…..

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151048222709209

Sad man, WoW has the newer API and that game is older than Gandalf.

No love for OpenGL?

There isn’t even love for DirectX… so why for OpenGL?

Now i think (im not pro) that OpenGL is much more complex than DirectX. Second thing is that many people have Windows OS…..

Grebcol.5984:

Now i think (im not pro) that OpenGL is much more complex than DirectX. Second thing is that many people have Windows OS…..

OpenGL doesn’t exclude Windows, it includes it. It also includes OS X and Linux, which DirectX excludes. If you want to hit all three while keeping the development process roughly the same, OpenGL is the logical choice. OS X and Linux have a lower market share, but there’s a good proportion of gamers dual booting Windows and Linux with the intention of switching over fully IF their games worked well on Linux. Valve is spearheading that movement currently by rapidly porting games over to Linux/OS X.

I don’t think it’s an issue of complexity. The key difference between the two is that one gets paid support from Microsoft, while the other is community-supported (with many large software companies supporting its development). Functionally, OpenGL Next is the same as DirectX 12 (for the end user).

GW2 uses DirectX 9.0 to support extremely low end systems. Problem is, DirectX 10+ has been fully supported for even the lowest of the low end hardware for several years now.

Rashy.4165:

GW2 uses DirectX 9.0 to support extremely low end systems. Problem is, DirectX 10+ has been fully supported for even the lowest of the low end hardware for several years now.

That is really sad…..

As much as I like OpenGL, the 800lbs gorilla that is Microsoft in conjunction with the two major video card GPU manufactures has made the previously widely accepted standard in graphics a minor blip on PCs. It took Microsoft until Dx9c to catch up to the feature set that OpenGL had for years but without optimized OEM driver support (as well as Microsoft’s slow OpenGL emulator that came in Vista/7/8) basically discredited the API. Dx11 essentially matches it now and has significantly better drivers.

syntohras.1064:

Rashy.4165:

GW2 uses DirectX 9.0 to support extremely low end systems. Problem is, DirectX 10+ has been fully supported for even the lowest of the low end hardware for several years now.

That is really sad…..

But when the engine was being written, the only OS that supported Dx10 at the time was Vista and gamers weren’t migrating to it in any significant numbers which is why XP and Dx9 was supported (not to mention as a reason for the Microsoft’s “Games for Windows” initiative to fade away). Also quad cores was still in the minority so why design an engine that needed more than two cores? Of course taking 5 years meant the whole PC gaming landscape changed. Engine probably got finished about the time Win 7 went live.

Now if they announced that they have also revamped the game engine to use Dx11, better quad core and higher support, displays up to 4K through extra high resolution textures and UI scaling, I think there will be fanfare.

I don’t think it’ll happen but it could.

FFXIV just announced that they’re using DX11 (and showed some nice, though small, improvements as a result). I think it would be great if GW2 would follow suit, but I don’t think they will.

Mantle?

Still think an Engine upgrade won’t happen.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

FFXIV just announced that they’re using DX11 (and showed some nice, though small, improvements as a result). I think it would be great if GW2 would follow suit, but I don’t think they will.

Was gonna say the same thing, it’s not currently in just yet but is planned to release very soon. Sadly all the pictures I’ve found posted are REALLY blurry.

Rashy.4165:

Grebcol.5984:

Now i think (im not pro) that OpenGL is much more complex than DirectX. Second thing is that many people have Windows OS…..

OpenGL doesn’t exclude Windows, it includes it. It also includes OS X and Linux, which DirectX excludes. If you want to hit all three while keeping the development process roughly the same, OpenGL is the logical choice. OS X and Linux have a lower market share, but there’s a good proportion of gamers dual booting Windows and Linux with the intention of switching over fully IF their games worked well on Linux. Valve is spearheading that movement currently by rapidly porting games over to Linux/OS X.

I don’t think it’s an issue of complexity. The key difference between the two is that one gets paid support from Microsoft, while the other is community-supported (with many large software companies supporting its development). Functionally, OpenGL Next is the same as DirectX 12 (for the end user).

GW2 uses DirectX 9.0 to support extremely low end systems. Problem is, DirectX 10+ has been fully supported for even the lowest of the low end hardware for several years now.

says it all imho.

I don’t like DX10 or DX11 nor I think they should upgrade their engine to it, it’s not worth the effort. Not while DX12 is coming up, which is said to be considerably faster and better optimized than DX10/11 ever was. I’d rather the devs focus on bringing DX12 support (and also Mantle) when it comes, rather than work on an API that is going to be outdated “soon”

Today’s news on Dx12 performance.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2015/01/21/test-the-impact-of-directx-12-on-pc-gaming-with-3dmark-software/

Imagine how old the engine is if they cannot implement this. :/

And on another not, I thought opengl was slow as thick kitten? I remember Unreal 1 on opengl, so sloowwwww.

aspirine.6852:

Imagine how old the engine is if they cannot implement this. :/

Well since it basically is a modified version of the GW1 engine it is indeed rather old.

They also started creating the game (and thus fixing the engine) 2007 or something like that, so even if it would have been a completely new engine by then it would still be about 8 years old by now.

Behellagh.1468:

Today’s news on Dx12 performance.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2015/01/21/test-the-impact-of-directx-12-on-pc-gaming-with-3dmark-software/

Thx for the info Behellagh….

“Today during a Windows 10 press conference, Microsoft reiterated the promise that for CPU-bound games (such as the majority of MMOs) DirectX12 will deliver up to 50% better performance.”

Would be so cool if the expansion launched with an updated API to the whole game, namely dx12. I can run the game maxed out with 60 frames already, but it would still be great to see Anet bring the game to the future down to its roots. Plus it would allow other players with lower end pcs to play the game with better frames.

Lukhas.1962:

Behellagh.1468:

Today’s news on Dx12 performance.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2015/01/21/test-the-impact-of-directx-12-on-pc-gaming-with-3dmark-software/

Thx for the info Behellagh….

“Today during a Windows 10 press conference, Microsoft reiterated the promise that for CPU-bound games (such as the majority of MMOs) DirectX12 will deliver up to 50% better performance.”

Imagine WvW in it’s full glory without slowdowns ;’)

mike.5476:

Would be so cool if the expansion launched with an updated API to the whole game, namely dx12. I can run the game maxed out with 60 frames already, but it would still be great to see Anet bring the game to the future down to its roots. Plus it would allow other players with lower end pcs to play the game with better frames.

I don’t think HoT will be released (or we want it to be releaed) after DX12

Improvements would be nice, though direct x 12 isn’t supported yet by 95%-97% of the hrdware of existing pc’s…. requiring legacy support.

If you’re improving I think 11 would be the first station…. but while 11 isn’t supported fully by the player base’s hardware it’d be a better choice. a lot more people would benefit fro native support…. though increased and improved functions would be greatly appreciated….and even the planning of further migration would be. until games release the need and/or wishfor a huge backward capability these things will remain, I’d appreciate directx 11 support next to 9 so we would get the best possible solution.. Adding 12 in a year or so would make this game ready for a next generation…

DX12 is supported by the current nvidia hardware and will be via drivers.

They have already been working closely with MS on this.
For systems where it is not fully supported in hardware it’s usually done via software emulation like MS have done in the past.

They are also talking of back porting DirectX 12 to Windows 8.
With the free OS Upgrade to windows 10 for Win7 or above users -I expect the leap to the newer version of the OS to be faster and quicker than in the past.

Before being so happy over Windows 10, I suggest to read EULA first.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

FFXIV just announced that they’re using DX11 (and showed some nice, though small, improvements as a result). I think it would be great if GW2 would follow suit, but I don’t think they will.

Squeenix actually busts their tail to make FFXIV a piece de resistance of what they can do though. The first iteration of the game was kittens, so they rebuilt that hot mess in an overhaul I’m not sure any game developer’s ever quite rivaled the extremity of before.

I gotta say, Squeenix earned major respect from me as a gamer for taking the hit, offering the mea culpa, owning their mistakes and fixing them. Now? They seem very dedicated to making sure they live up to a lot of lofty expectations, not just talking up a big smokescreen like a pack of politicians.

I’ve never seen anything quite like it. I think they’re onto something there.

aspirine.6852:

And on another not, I thought opengl was slow as thick kitten? I remember Unreal 1 on opengl, so sloowwwww.

A game released in what … 1998?

Unreal Engine has grown since then, and is one of the first few engines to offer native Linux support with version 4. OpenGL itself has developed a lot in 16 years.

lol, we’ve been waiting two years for a decent amount of new content, and you’re complaining that they’re using an older graphics API?

smh.

i rather them adding DX11 first, for one only a minority of the players even use win8, most use win 7 or lower.
adding only DX12 would alienate everyone who doesn’t have win8 or higher, i am 100% sure they don’t want that.

oh and one more thing, the engine GW2 uses is not the GW1 engine.
they wanted to use the engine but it was to limited so they used a different engine, just look over here and see for your self.:
http://www.umbrasoftware.com/?url=umbra3
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/partners/

dlonie.6547:

lol, we’ve been waiting two years for a decent amount of new content, and your complaining that they’re using an older graphics API?

smh.

If it will offer nicer gfx and speedboosts, what’s not to like?

Tao.5096:

Before being so happy over Windows 10, I suggest to read EULA first.

What EULAs mean to end users:
I own this product. I now own the company. I own the government. Freedom of speech everywhere HECK YEAH!

What EULAs mean to companies:
Oh that’s right, we had our law people whip something up didn’t we? As long as we aren’t going to end up in the news ya’ll customers should probably abide by that thing.

What EULAs really say:
You don’t own anything. In fact, we now have the rights to your shoes. If you click “I agree” you couldn’t sue us even if we took your first born. You DO have the right to your money back if our software doesn’t work, but since you’re using a computer (third party something or other) to run it you invalidate that right. We can take down the servers to our products (and your medical records) whenever we want.

Tao.5096:

Before being so happy over Windows 10, I suggest to read EULA first.

The EULA is to do with the technical preview. The EULA for Windows 10 itself will most probably be very different. It’s like being surprised about the crazy nonsense NDAs have for alphas.

Rabble rabble rabble.

aspirine.6852:

dlonie.6547:

lol, we’ve been waiting two years for a decent amount of new content, and your complaining that they’re using an older graphics API?

smh.

If it will offer nicer gfx and speedboosts, what’s not to like?

For a project the size of GW2, updating (and testing!) a new graphics API is a large investment of effort for what is essentially polish. It’s a lot of effort that, IMO, should be focused elsewhere given this game’s state.

dlonie.6547:

aspirine.6852:

dlonie.6547:

lol, we’ve been waiting two years for a decent amount of new content, and your complaining that they’re using an older graphics API?

smh.

If it will offer nicer gfx and speedboosts, what’s not to like?

For a project the size of GW2, updating (and testing!) a new graphics API is a large investment of effort for what is essentially polish. It’s a lot of effort that, IMO, should be focused elsewhere given this game’s state.

IMO it could use some of that. Whenever I do WvW with lots of people, esp. in SM, the slowdown is enormous. Not sure if this will be solved with the new support, but it sure is annoying.

I get that. Improved performance would certainly be nice.

For a frame of reference, my company is migrating one of our large visualization projects from an implementation that needs a minimum of OpenGL 1.2 to one that requires more recent OpenGL. To do this, we’ve had to obtain several years of funding to make the conversion and test the new implementations. Granted, this is probably a larger effort than DX9 —> DX11 (we’re moving 2.3 million lines of C++ visualization code from OpenGL fixed pipeline to FBOs and GLSL), but don’t underestimate just how much work something like this is. Then throw in the inevitable hardware/driver bugs in the implementations of the newer standard that will require workarounds…it’s a ton of time and effort.

I’d love to see them take advantage of newer API functionality, but I think that’s very little payoff for a large effort. Looking at the other development areas that require attention, I’d rather they keep something like this on the “Someday” pile.

That said — wouldn’t it be lovely if they’d comment on it and share their priorities, give reasoning, make us feel like valued customers, etc instead of just watching from the Fortress of Silence and ignoring any substantial conversation about the game? dreams

DarkWasp.7291:

What EULAs really say:
You don’t own anything. In fact, we now have the rights to your shoes. If you click “I agree” you couldn’t sue us even if we took your first born. You DO have the right to your money back if our software doesn’t work, but since you’re using a computer (third party something or other) to run it you invalidate that right. We can take down the servers to our products (and your medical records) whenever we want.

it must suck living in a country with laws like that.

btt: i highly doubt there will be any update on the graphics. be it dx10, 11, 12 or 500. if it’s too much effort to fix problems that have been in game since launch i guess it’s way too much effort to update the graphics.

Forget DX11, DirectX 12 would benefit this game way more. But it’s not going to happen. If in 2 years we barely saw actual optimization to the engine instead of masking some shortcomings, then it’s not going to happen.

aspirine.6852:

Imagine how old the engine is if they cannot implement this. :/

And on another not, I thought opengl was slow as thick kitten? I remember Unreal 1 on opengl, so sloowwwww.

That’s entirely due to crappy driver implementation, that is money wasn’t thrown at GPU manufacturers to make better drivers by Microsoft for OpenGL support, just DirectX. id was one of the last game companies that strongly supported OpenGL on the PC.

PS3’s graphics API was a fork of OpenGL ES (embedded system version). Most Android devices are also OpenGL ES as well as iOS. And of course Linux as well as Unix variants use OpenGL.

Anet?? anyt news about this??

dlonie.6547:

Then throw in the inevitable hardware/driver bugs in the implementations of the newer standard that will require workarounds…it’s a ton of time and effort.

This. So much this. It makes me sad as well. I looked a whole day for a bug in my code until I realized that the bug was caused by AMD’s driver implementation. ~~

Ideally there’s some DX11 features with the coming xpac or whatever it is… and DX12 later.

But I wouldn’t hold your breath. They tend to get busy with too much else on MMOs to do tech updates often.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

On this engine you’re having a laugh, it can’t even balance the load between CPU and GPU let laone to DX 10 not to mention DX 11. it’s an unoptimised and horribly bugy mess with no real back end you actually change without redisigning the whole engine.

As we all know, the DX11 features will be there on launch day, as this (and graphics optimization) is supposed to be the last thing they’ll do in the beta stage.
Oh wait.

GROMIT.7829:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

On this engine you’re having a laugh, it can’t even balance the load between CPU and GPU let laone to DX 10 not to mention DX 11. it’s an unoptimised and horribly bugy mess with no real back end you actually change without redisigning the whole engine.

Have you ever touched another MMO in you life?

It would indeed be nice if they could, even as a backburner project, set some people to work on a DX 11 or 12 upgrade.

We may not need it right now, but 2-3 years from now, with more content and more competing game titles, then i am sure it will indeed be a need for such an implementation. having some of the groundwork done by then would surely save them money and time later.

Not to mention, PC`s have a “life cyclus”. Yes, i too got an old wreck of a laptop (9-10 years now) that still works. However nobody in their sane mind would play games on those things. Mostly because it is one helluva big battle of patience. This game runs sluggishly on my rig with 3.5 GHZ 8core CPU, 16GB RAM, 2×3GB graphics and an SSD. Ive found that MOST of the issues are simply optimisation issues, some are driver related on my end and i do not blame Anet for those, however the fact that you are benefitting more from running this game on a OCd Pentium 4 single core then a off the shelf 8 core should ring some bells.
The future is not single core, it is not dual core, IT IS MULTI CORES. 4-6-8 and more. Any game not taking that into consideration will struggle to find new gamers.

The old loyal customers, they are old and loyal for a reason, they love the game. If they had to get a better PC to enjoy this game to its fullest, they would do that. Because a loyal customer stays loyal as long as his or her expectations are met.

Not to mention, while graphics are good for an MMO, it wouldnt hurt to upgrade it. a simple texture upscale and a better ENB (post processing) system would go a massive way.

For those wondering what post processing can do to a game when coupled with higher rez textures. search for “Sonic Ethers Unbelivable Shaders” on youtube. He makes post processing shader systems for minecraft that allows a game that is basically digital lego, to have close to Crysis 2 graphics.

Astralporing.1957:

As we all know, the DX11 features will be there on launch day, as this (and graphics optimization) is supposed to be the last thing they’ll do in the beta stage.
Oh wait.

ArenaNet, a company so bad at sticking to its word that it publicly threw a tantrum announced that it will no longer be communicating with its community about its intentions for the game.

That’s probably a bit unfair, the realities of the game design process and managing a projblahblah blah blah blah.

Now then lets hope that tomorrow there will be news…

syntohras.1064:

Now then lets hope that tomorrow there will be news…

Set your expectations super low, is my advice. I expect them to basically get on at PAX and mostly hype up the changes they’ve made in the past year, praise themselves for the April feature update and the tragedy that is trait locking (probably by calling it enriching or something equally PR’d) and then make a lot of noise over mediocre and unexciting changes to expect in the upcoming year, done if which might be of interest to me, most of which will not.

That’s where my expectations are. If I’m wrong, at least it might be to my pleasant surprise.

Grebcol.5984:

Soo after 2014, 2013, 2012 here is the 4th thread.

Any News about DirectX 11?

Don’t you mean 12, considering that’s what was just announced?

Im sure ANet is looking into it. That 50% increase for cpu-bound games would be extremely valuable to GW2, though I imagine it would be a huge project for them.

Rabe.2456:

dlonie.6547:

Then throw in the inevitable hardware/driver bugs in the implementations of the newer standard that will require workarounds…it’s a ton of time and effort.

This. So much this. It makes me sad as well. I looked a whole day for a bug in my code until I realized that the bug was caused by AMD’s driver implementation. ~~

Yep, any visualization project with any real distribution (the project I was referencing earlier supports mac, linux, and windows, plus has to run on the old hardware / OSes used by academic/gov’t supercomputers….ugh) has, somewhere, a nasty bit of code that implements dozens of workarounds for the cases where “this card and this driver don’t do what they should”.

I’m loving all of these people who think they just need to flip a switch to convert to newer graphics APIs. They really should try to see the real-world implications of doing so before they start raging….but oh well, they’re going to rage anyway, despite an obvious lack of experience in the area.

The benefit is rarely worth it unless you’re already doing a major engine overhaul anyway. The changes to the APIs often cut out loads of functionality that has been deprecated, and this means significant rewrites of not just low-level rendering calls, but often the entire structures built around them (scene graphs, etc). This is a lot of time and money to do, and is guaranteed to introduce tons of new bugs, which will cost even more time and money to address.

And as I’ve said, they really just need to focus on getting content out the door at this point. Once the game is in a good place content-wise on the current engine, then look at polishing performance. A highly polished game that has driven off its players due to boredom is of no use to anyone.