Guild Wars 2

I feel anet has forgotten WHY dungeons got their gold reward hiked up.

World bosses I typically get 2-3 rares every 15 minutes..
I can also go gathering materials during pres.

teq for example i can go mine 50-100 platinum, and 50+ hard wood logs while waiting.
I just finished Karka queen, got 4 rares, 4 champ bags, 6 karka shells.

All this requires is me to run around, and press f & 1.
If we assume the dungeon rewards are being nerfed to 26 silver + 60 tokens once/day (seems like a fair assumption from what i’ve read).

60 tokens = TWO rares, for 5-30 mins work ( with a metazerk team).
As much as 15-60 mins with an average team.

Now lets also remember anet NERFED the drop rate of ectos from those dungeon token rares, to HALF the regular rares a couple of years ago.

some stats that afaik still hold true:

Dungeon token rare: 0.45 ecto/rare
All other rares: 0.9 ecto/rare.

So dungeon rares are worth 1/2 a rare. So 1 path is 1 rare.

This was because ecto prices plummeted after the rares were added to world bosses and due to converting of tokens -> rares -> ectos.

For often more time, always more effort, I get less loot.

to compare:
15-20 (up to 30 for teq) mins of world boss:
lots of gathered materials (anything up to a stack)
2-3 rares (as many as 10 for teq, and 5 for karka).
Karma from events.

Dungeons:
5-30 ( meta zerk) or 15-60 (typical pug run)
1 (Effective) rare.
26 silver.

TL;DR
I feel world boss rewards significantly are too high.
Too many rares and too many ectos.
They aren’t/won’t be scarce, despite being called “rare”.

They aren’t/won’t be scarce, despite being called “rare”.

Unfortunately if you only count drops and not guaranteed chest rewards rares live up to their name pretty well, and that’s only for the chance at an ecto.

You are making a grave mistake.

You are setting equal direct gold loot with gold gained through selling of materials/items.

Those 2 are not the same. If you get materials or items as rewards, you need to exchange them on the trading post and no new gold has entered the economy.

Direct gold loot (as is from dungeons at the moment) does influence the total goldsupply and leads to inflation.

None of the things you mentioned give any where near the same amount of direct gold loot. Just because your gold gain might be the same or higher than dungeons, does not mean it’s the same. Someone else has to give up their gold to you (plus a 15% trading post tax).

If you want to talk rewards for dungeons, then suggest something besides direct gold loot, since arenanet is likely to want to recude that. Maybe have dungeons give a couple of rares per daily or such.

Inflation in the game isn’t inherently a bad thing. In some ways it’s good like waypoints and icy runestones effectively costing less money relative to one’s money supply. Since they’re sold by the system and not other players no one is losing out on their effectively lower rates.

Cyninja.2954:

You are making a grave mistake.

You are setting equal direct gold loot with gold gained through selling of materials/items.

Those 2 are not the same. If you get materials or items as rewards, you need to exchange them on the trading post and no new gold has entered the economy.

Direct gold loot (as is from dungeons at the moment) does influence the total goldsupply and leads to inflation.

None of the things you mentioned give any where near the same amount of direct gold loot. Just because your gold gain might be the same or higher than dungeons, does not mean it’s the same. Someone else has to give up their gold to you (plus a 15% trading post tax).

If you want to talk rewards for dungeons, then suggest something besides direct gold loot, since arenanet is likely to want to recude that. Maybe have dungeons give a couple of rares per daily or such.

erm, no.

Please go back and read again.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Cyninja.2954:

You are making a grave mistake.

You are setting equal direct gold loot with gold gained through selling of materials/items.

Those 2 are not the same. If you get materials or items as rewards, you need to exchange them on the trading post and no new gold has entered the economy.

Direct gold loot (as is from dungeons at the moment) does influence the total goldsupply and leads to inflation.

None of the things you mentioned give any where near the same amount of direct gold loot. Just because your gold gain might be the same or higher than dungeons, does not mean it’s the same. Someone else has to give up their gold to you (plus a 15% trading post tax).

If you want to talk rewards for dungeons, then suggest something besides direct gold loot, since arenanet is likely to want to recude that. Maybe have dungeons give a couple of rares per daily or such.

erm, no.

Please go back and read again.

I did. All you talk about are rare rewards and loot rewards. None of which increase the goldsupply of the game. On the contrary, they decrease it since they promote the use of the trading post.

Arenanet is trying to remove direct gold faucets. What you are talking about has absolutely no bearing on the current dungeon discussion.

Also if you feel world bosses are to high reward, try silver wastes. Obviously arenanet has no problem with this high amount of items and materials entering the game. They do with gold though.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I feel anet has forgotten WHY dungeons got their gold reward hiked up.

World bosses I typically get 2-3 rares every 15 minutes..
I can also go gathering materials during pres.

teq for example i can go mine 50-100 platinum, and 50+ hard wood logs while waiting.
I just finished Karka queen, got 4 rares, 4 champ bags, 6 karka shells.

All this requires is me to run around, and press f & 1.
If we assume the dungeon rewards are being nerfed to 26 silver + 60 tokens once/day (seems like a fair assumption from what i’ve read).

60 tokens = TWO rares, for 5-30 mins work ( with a metazerk team).
As much as 15-60 mins with an average team.

Now lets also remember anet NERFED the drop rate of ectos from those dungeon token rares, to HALF the regular rares a couple of years ago.

some stats that afaik still hold true:

Dungeon token rare: 0.45 ecto/rare
All other rares: 0.9 ecto/rare.

So dungeon rares are worth 1/2 a rare. So 1 path is 1 rare.

This was because ecto prices plummeted after the rares were added to world bosses and due to converting of tokens -> rares -> ectos.

For often more time, always more effort, I get less loot.

to compare:
15-20 (up to 30 for teq) mins of world boss:
lots of gathered materials (anything up to a stack)
2-3 rares (as many as 10 for teq, and 5 for karka).
Karma from events.

Dungeons:
5-30 ( meta zerk) or 15-60 (typical pug run)
1 (Effective) rare.
26 silver.

TL;DR
I feel world boss rewards significantly are too high.
Too many rares and too many ectos.
They aren’t/won’t be scarce, despite being called “rare”.

the flaw is, these are descions they made for design purposes, and work the rest of the game around them.

They want world bosses to be something people want to do, even if the bosses themeselves arent that great.
therefore they pay people to do them

They used to want people to dungeons, so they paid them. They no longer particularly want people to do dungeons, so they dont want to pay them

they are willing to design and shift things to compensate for world bosses, not so for dungeons anymore.

However based on their dungeon reasoning, i wouldnt be surprised if they take world bosses out of the daily bonuses eventually, and shift them to new world bosses they want people to do.

in fact i think its highly likely if they can come up with a UI that tells you what events will give you a daily rare throughout the world on a daily basis.

Cyninja.2954:

You are setting equal direct gold loot with gold gained through selling of materials/items.

Then add extra material rewards in dungeons and remove the gold reward completely.

maddoctor.2738:

Cyninja.2954:

You are setting equal direct gold loot with gold gained through selling of materials/items.

Then add extra material rewards in dungeons and remove the gold reward completely.

You mean like this suggestion in the my thread you quoted?:

Cyninja.2954:

If you want to talk rewards for dungeons, then suggest something besides direct gold loot, since arenanet is likely to want to recude that. Maybe have dungeons give a couple of rares per daily or such.

maddoctor.2738:

Cyninja.2954:

You are setting equal direct gold loot with gold gained through selling of materials/items.

Then add extra material rewards in dungeons and remove the gold reward completely.

Except ANet doesn’t want players to do dungeons for generic rewards. They want players who aren’t doing them for tokens to go do something the devs are willing to work on. It is their view that they are irrevocably broken as challenging content and contributed to the rise of the Zerk meta which was unintentional on the devs part.

So they are trying to but the Genie back into the bottle without closing them down permanently or making them only story mode.

So if the ultimate aim is such strict shepherding…

Perhaps remove ALL loot from EVERYTHING.
Then pay players to bias their metrics with dailys.

Also provides a very easy framework with which to control economy.

Everything has been about shepherding. Dailies have always been about shepherding. Location of world bosses. The need for exclusive materials from both PvP and WvW to craft certain items. They’ve always felt that players will get the most from the game from doing everything and not just one niche (however wanting most rewards available by all game modes).

Think of the game as an amusement park, an apt analogy of most MMOs, they want to see people in all areas of the park, not just hanging around one part of the park all day riding the same ride over and over again.

Using the terms of software ware development, dungeons are deprecated, unsupported and only there for to support a certain old purpose but is not meant for use by new code.

It’s pretty simple really.

• They felt that the gold faucet from dungeon running was detrimental to the economy.

• They felt that based on the reception of the AC revamp that it was not worth the cost and effort ro revamp other dungeons to fix their bugs and exploits.

• They felt that dungeons, unlike fractals, had a large amount of expensive expectations (cutscenes, lots of voice work, multiple paths, unique skin set per dungeon) that make them problematic as ongoing content.

• They felt that they could serve small group instanced content better by focusing on smaller, less expensive chunks of content in the fractal system that scale better for more difficulty tiers of players.

• They felt they could save the big showy content costs for raids, which people are societally much more tolerant of being released piecemeal, and which have a difficulty scale, and thus longevity, that makes them more comfortable with creating lots of custom reward assets for.

It’s not all that suprising that they went this direction if you look at it from a long term business standpoint, and everything in HoT is all about defining the extendable systems that will define GW2 throughout the life of game now that they’ve got 3 years of experimentation out of their systems.