Guild Wars 2

I really hope this doesn’t happen but you all may what to read this:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/tech/web/net-neutrality-explained/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Anet and Ncsoft may be forced to charge a monthly fee for this game and all other online free to play will have to also or ISP will start tearing there services and we will have to pay a premiums to play online gaming or both. Even the monthly subs like WoW may have to rase there rates let’s hope this does not happen but you know it will anyway for greedy corporate America to make more money!!!

I pray to the lords of heaven, PLEASE don’t let this happen!

I don’t think it is going to happen.

They’ve been pushing this for years.

Alarmist just slightly.

indeed, moneica

They just ruled today that they can’t stop Comcast from doing this. They can start doing tomorrow. I suspect we will see this in the next month or so unless new legislation is passed.

Yeah, OP is a bit hyperbolic. I wouldn’t get too upset at this point.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

They just ruled today that they can’t stop Comcast from doing this. They can start doing tomorrow. I suspect we will see this in the next month or so unless new legislation is passed.

Sucks for those who use comcast.

It would not just effect f2p or b2p games it would effect p2p games by making there cost go up. Its will effect every thing on the web youtube netxflix etc.. Every system ps4 xbox one would be hit by this too.

Yet another reason I am kitten glad to be a Canadian.

However if they do ever decide to pull this kitten on us, there are plenty of single player games available. Never played WoW because they charged a sub.

Actually it’s not all bad, because as part of the decision the court affirmed the FCC’s authority to regulate broadband Internet in principle. The ruling just said because the FCC had classified Internet providers differently from phone service providers that it couldn’t do so in this particular case. That means they can rewrite the regulations and it could satisfy the court.

Also, Comcast supports the FCC’s Open Internet rules and has said they’ll stick to them for at least the next 6 years… It was Verizon that challenged them in court.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Yet another reason I am kitten glad to be a Canadian.

However if they do ever decide to pull this kitten on us, there are plenty of single player games available. Never played WoW because they charged a sub.

Same here (I mean, I’m not Canadian, but I’m not American either).

I played Warcraft, Warcraft II and Warcraft III, was excited for WoW, didn’t play because I don’t play sub-based MMOs. The same will happen with TESO (huge fan of TES, not going to play TESO because of the sub). If GW2 suddenly becomes sub-based, I will quit. I really doubt it will happen, though.

I have a complete hatred for sub-based games. It is not because of the money I would have to put on them (I would gladly spend much more on regular expansions, for example), but that feeling that I have to play the game all the time, otherwise I’m burning money.

Seeing as one of the big selling points for this game is no subscription fees, that had better not change.

OldSomalia.6180:

P1 trash skips is where “skipping needs to stop (because I can’t do it!)” threads come from.

I routinely solo up to Tar in 10-15 mins, and it can regularly take 30+ to get a full pug capable of even reaching Tar if I dont pre-activate the Tar WP (I’m sure this is partly to do with my early morning playtime, but still…).

Wrong thread?

zenleto.6179:

OldSomalia.6180:

P1 trash skips is where “skipping needs to stop (because I can’t do it!)” threads come from.

I routinely solo up to Tar in 10-15 mins, and it can regularly take 30+ to get a full pug capable of even reaching Tar if I dont pre-activate the Tar WP (I’m sure this is partly to do with my early morning playtime, but still…).

Wrong thread?

Hella wrong thread! kitten cellphone screen where all I can see is what I’m typing, but not what tab I was typing in lol

From the beginning GW2 was marketed as basically being a one off payment to buy the game, and if you wanted more perks, you could spend more real life money in the gemstore. That’s it – case closed.

If we’re forced to suddenly start paying a monthly fee? I’m out.

Lmao, not going to happen. The internet needs to stop scaremongering. This thread shouldn’t even exist…. Do you seriously think that millions of people and companies, all of whom would be negatively affected by this, would sit there and let it happen – no they would not. Make no mistake the amount of companies that would oppose this is enough to stop it from ever happening. People aren’t stupid, wait, maybe a little bit.

If any of the ISPs do try to force their customers through the ringer, I very strongly doubt that they’ll be able to do it for long. They’re more or less offering their entire customer base up on a silver platter for any other ISPs to swoop in and steal their money. Yes, there are entrenched monopolies in a lot of places in the US, but I don’t think they’re stable enough to get that money without reprisal.

Bad in the short term, fantastic in the long term because it breaks those monopolies, and competition always provides a better product.

This is my completely kitten analysis of the laws I don’t understand of a country I don’t live in

It confuses me why they think this is a good idea, considering competition, and public outcry. (How the heck do they even market this?)

It also disgusts me that they try to permanently mess up the internet just to make a few extra dollars which they don’t even need in the first place!

Zaoda.1653:

From the beginning GW2 was marketed as basically being a one off payment to buy the game, and if you wanted more perks, you could spend more real life money in the gemstore. That’s it – case closed.

If we’re forced to suddenly start paying a monthly fee? I’m out.

You’re misunderstanding or misrepresenting the dilemma:
It’s XBox LIVE. Yes, you already have and pay for your Internet, but certain companies (Microsoft, in this case) might like it if they could also squeeze your pockets for a subscription to a tertiary platform to actually multi-play the games on it.

This would not be ANet charging a monthly subscription; it would be (if it happened) your ISP charging an additional surcharge to play multiplayer games over their network, extra to the fee of you already subscribing to their Internet service.

Not worried about this. Many more would stop paying for internet entirely or another company will take advantage and not charge extra as their selling point.

How many proposed laws have people jumped on the bandwagon against and it turned out to not even be a threat?

OP is last to this party. Net neutrality is and never will get passed.

OldSomalia.6180:

Zaoda.1653:

From the beginning GW2 was marketed as basically being a one off payment to buy the game, and if you wanted more perks, you could spend more real life money in the gemstore. That’s it – case closed.

If we’re forced to suddenly start paying a monthly fee? I’m out.

You’re misunderstanding or misrepresenting the dilemma:
It’s XBox LIVE. Yes, you already have and pay for your Internet, but certain companies (Microsoft, in this case) might like it if they could also squeeze your pockets for a subscription to a tertiary platform to actually multi-play the games on it.

This would not be ANet charging a monthly subscription; it would be (if it happened) your ISP charging an additional surcharge to play multiplayer games over their network, extra to the fee of you already subscribing to their Internet service.

Ya that the scary part we may start seeing mmorpg or other online games / service start to double in price due to this. 15$ a month is not too bad and most most ppl its the most they are willing to pay for an online game or other but if you add 5$ more or even worst 15$ i think we will see online game / service fall into nothing.

I think i worded that oddly what i am trying to say there is a cost to play online game even before you buy the game and pay a fee to play if the game has it. I am looking at cost to play that game per month counting in the fee to have the internet. If your web has a fee for online gaming you should tack on that fee to the cost of that game. So if its 5$ more and the game cost 15$ per month now your looking at a 20$ monthly bill.

I truly hope web provider do not go down this route (NA) ppl already pay some of the highest cost for not the best web in the world.

Sarrs.4831:

If any of the ISPs do try to force their customers through the ringer, I very strongly doubt that they’ll be able to do it for long. They’re more or less offering their entire customer base up on a silver platter for any other ISPs to swoop in and steal their money. Yes, there are entrenched monopolies in a lot of places in the US, but I don’t think they’re stable enough to get that money without reprisal.

Bad in the short term, fantastic in the long term because it breaks those monopolies, and competition always provides a better product.

This is my completely kitten analysis of the laws I don’t understand of a country I don’t live in

This is essentially what I was thinking myself – that this may be a case where the “invisible hand of self-interest” leads to the system regulating itself.

Worst-case scenario is that every single ISP in a particular market gets together and agrees to impose the same rules. Otherwise… it pretty much only takes one to break ranks and the others will start hemorrhaging customers.

draxynnic.3719:

Worst-case scenario is that every single ISP in a particular market gets together and agrees to impose the same rules. Otherwise… it pretty much only takes one to break ranks and the others will start hemorrhaging customers.

A collaboration which is very, very unlikely because the more these companies collaborate, the more non-collaborators have to benefit from it.

OldSomalia.6180:

Zaoda.1653:

From the beginning GW2 was marketed as basically being a one off payment to buy the game, and if you wanted more perks, you could spend more real life money in the gemstore. That’s it – case closed.

If we’re forced to suddenly start paying a monthly fee? I’m out.

You’re misunderstanding or misrepresenting the dilemma:
It’s XBox LIVE. Yes, you already have and pay for your Internet, but certain companies (Microsoft, in this case) might like it if they could also squeeze your pockets for a subscription to a tertiary platform to actually multi-play the games on it.

This would not be ANet charging a monthly subscription; it would be (if it happened) your ISP charging an additional surcharge to play multiplayer games over their network, extra to the fee of you already subscribing to their Internet service.

From what i read of the article, it proposes that ISP’s would be able to micro manage speeds to websites and charge premium rates to companies for larger data bandwidth. This charge would be forwarded to the company in the example say netflix, if it wants to have full speed access to the # of customers on their Service. This charge might then be supplemented by the customer who would pay more from Netflix for said better service. Its difficult to summarize how this might actually effect companies though since some ISP’s may charge and some not.. and companies don’t distinguish customers by ISP but may have to.

That said, i feel like this is something thats already a prevalent issue. Here in the UK, high court ruled that all the major ISP companies must block several high traffic sites that promote Torrenting and illegal media sharing/streaming capabilities. This mearly feels like an extension of that principle, although it was more a method of targeting illegal downloading than traffic and bandwidth management.

Thankfully though i can’t see the MMO market being hit, considering the bandwidth transferred via these games are specifically designed to be as minimal as possible; its very unlikely anyone will be charged extra, AN included, even if the idea moves forward.

Gabby.3205:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Yet another reason I am kitten glad to be a Canadian.

However if they do ever decide to pull this kitten on us, there are plenty of single player games available. Never played WoW because they charged a sub.

Same here (I mean, I’m not Canadian, but I’m not American either).

I played Warcraft, Warcraft II and Warcraft III, was excited for WoW, didn’t play because I don’t play sub-based MMOs. The same will happen with TESO (huge fan of TES, not going to play TESO because of the sub). If GW2 suddenly becomes sub-based, I will quit. I really doubt it will happen, though.

I have a complete hatred for sub-based games. It is not because of the money I would have to put on them (I would gladly spend much more on regular expansions, for example), but that feeling that I have to play the game all the time, otherwise I’m burning money.

Do you also feel that you’re burning money if, for example, you’re not using your internet, tv, or netflix subscription 24/7?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Gabby.3205:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Yet another reason I am kitten glad to be a Canadian.

However if they do ever decide to pull this kitten on us, there are plenty of single player games available. Never played WoW because they charged a sub.

Same here (I mean, I’m not Canadian, but I’m not American either).

I played Warcraft, Warcraft II and Warcraft III, was excited for WoW, didn’t play because I don’t play sub-based MMOs. The same will happen with TESO (huge fan of TES, not going to play TESO because of the sub). If GW2 suddenly becomes sub-based, I will quit. I really doubt it will happen, though.

I have a complete hatred for sub-based games. It is not because of the money I would have to put on them (I would gladly spend much more on regular expansions, for example), but that feeling that I have to play the game all the time, otherwise I’m burning money.

Do you also feel that you’re burning money if, for example, you’re not using your internet, tv, or netflix subscription 24/7?

Don’t pull that one. The feeling that Gabby has mentioned isn’t uncommon amongst MMO players.

Dark Catalyst.1028

Do you also feel that you’re burning money if, for example, you’re not using your internet, tv, or netflix subscription 24/7?

I can’t speak for the other guy, but I do not have a cable TV or Netflix subscription for that exact reason.

only problem is the backlash that would come with this. It might be different if the world wasn’t dependant on the internet but trying to pull something like that is like the goverment suddenly adding a tax for breathing.

There are far to many people who would tear this idea down before it even got a chance to star crawling. SOPA was a good example of that.

Gabby.3205:

that feeling that I have to play the game all the time, otherwise I’m burning money.

yeah this.

i played world of warcraft (taiwan) for a bit using the english client
(i can read mandarin fonts so i can communicate with the native players there if needed)

over there, there are 2 kinds of billing system
say around
usd5+ for 30 hours of in game time, never expires, can stack (accumulate hours)
usd15+ for 30 days (expire after 30 days)

the 30 hours is nice for casual players.

i tried the 30 days package once. never again.
because if i dun play 2 hours per day (usd15+ means 90 hours for the other billing system) i will feel like i dun get my monies worth, then i might as well play more hours to get more worth, it is that kind of feeling.

in the end, i stopped playing world of warcraft (taiwan) though.

still have like 200+ hours of game time left so i can still log in and check things out or play if i really want to.

I would not worry about this at all…

People vote with there feet and there’s a huge amount of competition which keeps prices down.

Even the most successful websites/games after be very careful over there pricing policy and intrusion by adverts. Internets users can very quickly desert to a alternative.

I didn’t worried until XBOX LIVE.

People likes to happily pay extra fees for the same thing they were not paying before. Just to show others they can pay and the others may not, so they are elite and the others are crap.

In this case, ISP are grouped from years ago to try to break neutrality, so they can charge additional fees for everything, like:

We offer basic internet for 10$: gmail, yahoo, wikipedia, amazon and microsoft stuff
Plus social pack! for extra 3$: facebook, twitter, whatever
Plus Internet gold for extra 5$: basic websites that agree to pay us a fee in order to appear somewhere.
Plus Internet Platinum for only extra 15$: ok, we’ll let you navigate more or less as the pre-we-broke-neutrality era, but of kitten the pages will be slow when we detect that you use them often. You will cry over us you kitten user.
Plus gaming light pack! 5$ extra so you can access steam, wow, whatever
Plus gaming hardcore pack! 10$ extra and you have the most popular MMO that will pay us a fee in order to be serviced or we will destroy them!.

Etc etc

Without legislation, it will definitely happen. That’s what happens when you have non-government monopolies.

Idk why you post this on gw2 forum he have to do anything with gw2?

Why is it potentially connected to gw2?

All US Server traffic goes via US ISPs – if these throttle or slow down the link spped because your ISP or ANET has not paid extra $$ for this type of traffic your gaming experience will have more lag. Your gaming experience will be affected.
Anyone connecting from outside the US to US based services could also be affected (e.g An Australian gamer playing on a US based service – eg GW2 US Servers).

The same also applies for external voice communication systems that you may use outside of GW2: Teamspeak, mumble, ventrillo, Skype – unless you pay your ISP extra this traffic could be throttled to the point it is unusable.

At an extreme example:
It’s basically like driving down a freeway (or motorway) and all your traffic is stuck in the slow lane unless you pay extra to use the other lanes for each type of service. You have the 10-40 lanes available (10-40Mb) and empty but you are being throttled to the slow lane 1MB (and high latency) unless you pay for each car type (ventrillo, gw2, video streaming, web pages, FTP, private VPN). The ramifications of loosing the net neutrality argument are massive and will hurt consumers of internet in a massive way.
It also means the costs you experience will go up massively to have the same performance you currently have.

This is what could happen without net neutrality.
The bandwidth should be available from ISPs – it costs them no more to provide the available bandwidth that you have paid for (given under your contention ratios/SLAs etc).

Luckily, my server is hosted in Europe, and we’ve not gone that far down the drain yet Although T-Com is trying…

I am not overly worried about this; however anything is possible. Once upon a time data-caps didn’t exist either, but now they do. Their excuse was to curb ‘piracy’ that occurred with the peer-to-peer sharing. Comcast, Dish, ATT, and many others all have download caps now. I am not surprised in the least that they want to implement something like this…

Games don’t use much bandwidth, but the real issue is increased and variable latency. If they start prioritizing traffic, you may experience random delays in packets getting to game servers. And good luck if you play while some priority Netflix traffic runs.

The 1 percenters won’t be happy until they have drained the last drop of blood from capitalism. While there is no need for alarm yet, neither is there room for apathy, corporations have proven over and over that they own politicians and will use them to their advantage.

Naevius.3185:

Games don’t use much bandwidth, but the real issue is increased and variable latency. If they start prioritizing traffic, you may experience random delays in packets getting to game servers. And good luck if you play while some priority Netflix traffic runs.

We actually changed providers because of this. The cable company had theoretically faster speeds, but it was shared bandwidth and we were at the end of a line that also carried cable TV traffic. I live in Texas, and there is no way any gamer is going to get bandwidth when football is on. We switched to a slower but dedicated line and it is so much better.

What concerns me most though is not the pricing but the fact that providers could block certain types of traffic. Have your internet through Verizon and want to watch NetFlix instead of their VOD? Sorry, no can do. Oh you want to send encrypted data? Sorry, you have to have an enterprise level plan you can’t afford as an individual.

There isn’t enough competition in the US market right now for this to work by consumers voting with their wallets. I have a choice of A or B if I want high speed internet and there is only so much leverage I have by ping ponging back and forth between them.

zenleto.6179:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Gabby.3205:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Yet another reason I am kitten glad to be a Canadian.

However if they do ever decide to pull this kitten on us, there are plenty of single player games available. Never played WoW because they charged a sub.

Same here (I mean, I’m not Canadian, but I’m not American either).

I played Warcraft, Warcraft II and Warcraft III, was excited for WoW, didn’t play because I don’t play sub-based MMOs. The same will happen with TESO (huge fan of TES, not going to play TESO because of the sub). If GW2 suddenly becomes sub-based, I will quit. I really doubt it will happen, though.

I have a complete hatred for sub-based games. It is not because of the money I would have to put on them (I would gladly spend much more on regular expansions, for example), but that feeling that I have to play the game all the time, otherwise I’m burning money.

Do you also feel that you’re burning money if, for example, you’re not using your internet, tv, or netflix subscription 24/7?

Don’t pull that one. The feeling that Gabby has mentioned isn’t uncommon amongst MMO players.

A typical $15 per month subscription pencils out to approximately 50 cents per day. If you have a nice enough computer to handle GW2 and other MMOs then 50 cents a day shouldn’t be a problem.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Naevius.3185:

Games don’t use much bandwidth, but the real issue is increased and variable latency. If they start prioritizing traffic, you may experience random delays in packets getting to game servers. And good luck if you play while some priority Netflix traffic runs.

We actually changed providers because of this. The cable company had theoretically faster speeds, but it was shared bandwidth and we were at the end of a line that also carried cable TV traffic. I live in Texas, and there is no way any gamer is going to get bandwidth when football is on. We switched to a slower but dedicated line and it is so much better.

What concerns me most though is not the pricing but the fact that providers could block certain types of traffic. Have your internet through Verizon and want to watch NetFlix instead of their VOD? Sorry, no can do. Oh you want to send encrypted data? Sorry, you have to have an enterprise level plan you can’t afford as an individual.

There isn’t enough competition in the US market right now for this to work by consumers voting with their wallets. I have a choice of A or B if I want high speed internet and there is only so much leverage I have by ping ponging back and forth between them.

I understand you on the lack of competition. Where I live I have a choice of ATT or Dish. No one else services my area because I live ‘out in the boonies.’ Additionally, ATT feels there is no need to upgrade their copper (not just in my area, but anywhere really) since it’s design intention is for phone, not dsl. Sadly, I’m stuck with crappy DSL that has no cap, or potentially laggy satalite internet (not the best for gaming) that has an extremely small cap. sigh

Zaxares.5419:

Dark Catalyst.1028

Do you also feel that you’re burning money if, for example, you’re not using your internet, tv, or netflix subscription 24/7?

I can’t speak for the other guy, but I do not have a cable TV or Netflix subscription for that exact reason.

I hope you’re online 24/7 otherwise you’re wasting money!

Dark Catalyst.1028:

zenleto.6179:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Gabby.3205:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Yet another reason I am kitten glad to be a Canadian.

However if they do ever decide to pull this kitten on us, there are plenty of single player games available. Never played WoW because they charged a sub.

Same here (I mean, I’m not Canadian, but I’m not American either).

I played Warcraft, Warcraft II and Warcraft III, was excited for WoW, didn’t play because I don’t play sub-based MMOs. The same will happen with TESO (huge fan of TES, not going to play TESO because of the sub). If GW2 suddenly becomes sub-based, I will quit. I really doubt it will happen, though.

I have a complete hatred for sub-based games. It is not because of the money I would have to put on them (I would gladly spend much more on regular expansions, for example), but that feeling that I have to play the game all the time, otherwise I’m burning money.

Do you also feel that you’re burning money if, for example, you’re not using your internet, tv, or netflix subscription 24/7?

Don’t pull that one. The feeling that Gabby has mentioned isn’t uncommon amongst MMO players.

A typical $15 per month subscription pencils out to approximately 50 cents per day. If you have a nice enough computer to handle GW2 and other MMOs then 50 cents a day shouldn’t be a problem.

I buy a computer once. I have it forever. I’m not renting it. It’s mine.

The reason I have money to buy a computer of this calibre is BECAUSE I don’t buy games twice. You’re only thinking per day. Now do every day you’ve played it and every day you’ve not played it. Now look at that long-term money. Think of what you really got out of it. Think of the times you burned out and played other games, even bought other games. You just paid someone for doing nothing.

People with high income that throw it all away will never understand the true value of money and will be very ill-prepared when a financial crisis hits them.

Didn’t take long for this thread to turn political. Mods should close it since it’s unrelated to GW2

Sarrs.4831:

If any of the ISPs do try to force their customers through the ringer, I very strongly doubt that they’ll be able to do it for long. They’re more or less offering their entire customer base up on a silver platter for any other ISPs to swoop in and steal their money. Yes, there are entrenched monopolies in a lot of places in the US, but I don’t think they’re stable enough to get that money without reprisal.

Bad in the short term, fantastic in the long term because it breaks those monopolies, and competition always provides a better product.

This is my completely kitten analysis of the laws I don’t understand of a country I don’t live in

There are really only 3 broadband providers in the US. Comcast, Verizon, and Time Warner. In major cities they compete, elsewhere they are essentially monopolies. They each have a deal with each other not to enter into other markets that they aren’t currently in. I’d say for close to 50% of Americans you only get 1 choice for broadband and possibly one local company that can at best offer DSL. You either take what they give you or you get dialup/dsl.

There is really no competition or swooping. It costs tons of money to bring broadband to a new area and unless you are one of the big 3 who all work together then you most likely will never have that much money.

But as this thread shows most people are either indifferent or don’t think it can happen so they don’t do anything to stop it. Then it will happen and there will be no going back. Same thing has been happening in the video game industry for years. They just did it slowly and killed the rebels with the slow death of indifference. If you told people 10 years ago that they would have to pay upwards of $200 for an RNG chance at a single weapon skin there wouldn’t be a single person playing the game. Today people just /shrug and say “it’s convenience so it’s ok”.

Feirlista Xv.1425:

I really hope this doesn’t happen but you all may what to read this:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/tech/web/net-neutrality-explained/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Anet and Ncsoft may be forced to charge a monthly fee for this game and all other online free to play will have to also or ISP will start tearing there services and we will have to pay a premiums to play online gaming or both. Even the monthly subs like WoW may have to rase there rates let’s hope this does not happen but you know it will anyway for greedy corporate America to make more money!!!

Never happen to games like GW2 IMHO, the amount of bandwidth the game uses is very small compared to streaming services like Hulu and Netflix, not that ISPs won’t start throttling bandwidth based on IPs because it will become a cash cow for them but they will look to the originators of the content to extract money for a clear path to end-users/subscribers.

AT&T is already positing itself to do so, but most of the other ISPs have contracts keeping them from doing so or believe in the open-internet/net neutrality, but I do agree if the FCC doesn’t set their kitten together we will be paying more in the future or our connectivity.

A better read on the topic can be found here.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/01/how-the-fcc-screwed-up-its-chance-to-make-isp-blocking-illegal/

And here.

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/one-talking-comes-net-neutrality/

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Do you also feel that you’re burning money if, for example, you’re not using your internet, tv, or netflix subscription 24/7?

No, because I don’t have an alternative. That’s how internet and television works around here, I have to pay, it doesn’t matter which company I choose (and I don’t have netflix). The alternative would be not to have TV or internet at all. With games, there are plenty of ones that does not have subscriptions, so it DOES matter which one I choose and the alternative is to play another game, not to not play games at all. Besides, there is always someone in my home using the TV or the internet.
That was not a good comparison.