Guild Wars 2

It’s been a long time since Zhaitan was first slain and the forums were filled with the dissenting voices of disappointment. Since then we’ve actually heard that story dungeons will be looked at, especially in terms of reward, plus the explorable dungeons are receiving boss updates.

With the underwhelming nature of the battle, how easy it is and the anticlimactic final death, I can’t help wonder if ANet has Arah story mode in their update plans as well.

Personally I would love to see the battle receive a few more engaging moment. Perhaps add some phases to the battle, while revamping others. How about a phase where he claws onto the ship while you fight one or two heads, while cannons fire at him in an attempt to repel him? How about during the final stage, where the wounded Zhaitan holds onto a tower, instead of free firing a pinata, why not have him fire at the turrets with breath blasts as players desperately shoot back?

There are ways to make the battle far more epic, far more intense, and certainly a bit more involving. I know he is one of the Elder Dragons, but having a bit more to do than smacking minions and blindly firing cannons would add a lot more to the fight. Especially if ANet plans on adding replay incentives to story dungeons.

Now the camera zooms out when you shoot him and he has less hp! /fake enthusiasm

This should be in the story thread but yeah, they kinda ran out of ideas and wasted a potentially cool battle.

Personally I think that the battle with Zhaitan is simply doomed to be disappointing. It’s simply not an enemy that we ‘want’ to fight. Something that we love to hate, Zhaitan just is.
I mean, throughout the story we hear al the stories of him being all powerful, but we actually never see him, or what he’s actually capable of. Actually the only time that we see him is when he’s already weakened significantly. At no point in the story we are feeling really overpowered by this supposedly immense power of the Elder dragon

It’s simply an anticlimactic battle since there is actually no real build up to the battle itself. And I don’t think any fancy graphics or mechanics will really change the feeling of disappointment.

Honestly I’d rather see them learn from their mistakes and move on, as opposed to constantly messing with old content. Zhaitan fight wasn’t too exciting by any stretch, but the setting of the final fight on the airship was actually pretty cool. Problem now is, they backed themselves into a corner because Zhaitan is dead and yet his undead minions still exist.

I feel the same way about AC coincidentally… it wasn’t bad the way it was. People enjoyed it, and it wasn’t like the rewards or time spent getting them were making millionaires overnight. They should have focused on creating new content with improved mechanics. Hopefully that doesn’t come across too critical, but given that these forums exist for the player’s opinions, I figured I’d give my two cents.

Plunder.8195:

Personally I think that the battle with Zhaitan is simply doomed to be disappointing. It’s simply not an enemy that we ‘want’ to fight. Something that we love to hate, Zhaitan just is.
I mean, throughout the story we hear al the stories of him being all powerful, but we actually never see him, or what he’s actually capable of. Actually the only time that we see him is when he’s already weakened significantly. At no point in the story we are feeling really overpowered by this supposedly immense power of the Elder dragon

What you said here is insanely important. I hope ANet prints it, and every employee involved in setting up future antagonists tape your words above their screens so they can read it at least once a day.

Your statement should be taken to heart when the content for the other dragons are developed. So much feeling needs to go into the build up of the antagonist, not just the dragons. You should have emotions the whole journey.

I’ve read a brilliant tip once that all authors should incorporate into their stories. Don’t tell the readers something, show it to them. Pretty much the entire game we’ve been told how bad kitten Zhaitan is, and how amazingly powerful he is, and how Tyria is doomed and everyone fears him. When it finally came down to ANet showing us Zhaitan, it ended up being immensely lackluster.

I thought it was epic, never knew why people QQ’d so much

his biggest threat is his ability to control an army of undead. who said he had to be all-powerful?
that said – he should at least be able to control an army of undead. undead adds that attack you and prevent you from attacking him?

When the next Elder Dragon is introduced, he needs to do something INCREDIBLE that shakes the very foundations of the game map. Imagine if, should Kralkatorrik be next, he swoops through Ascalon and mounts a full-scale assault on Ebonhawke, decimating the Vanguard and turning the entire city in to a shell of Branded nightmare. Survivors of the attack escaped through the Asura Gate to Divinity’s Reach, but with no surviving technicians to properly close it, the Branded pour out in to the streets and annihilate half of Divinity’s Reach before the Seraph manage to build up defences to keep them at bay from the centre and western areas of the city. The next instanced missions would then consist of you and Destiny’s Edge pushing through the forces of the Branded in an attempt to shut down the gate and protect Divinity’s Reach for good before making your moves against the dragon from northern Ascalon. But before this, the Personal Story mission after Zhaitan’s defeat is a case of you visiting Ebonhawke after reports of disturbing activity that has driven away even the Separatists. You then witness Kralkatorrik’s form first-hand, his IMMENSE stature towering over the city like an ant to a magnifying glass. With one sweep of his tail, buildings collapse, screams echo, Vanguard flee, completely unprepared. An officer yells in your ear to run for your life, and as you sprint to the gate, the walls of the city are crashing down around you, until you jump through the gate, seemingly to safety. But of course, you have to continue to retreat as the Branded follow you through the streets of Divinity’s Reach, civilians running in all directions in complete and utter panic. Logan and Seraph manage to secure a perimeter around Rurikton before it gets completely out of control, and there’s where it really begins.

That’s quite literally something I came up with only five minutes ago on the top of my head. We NEED to see the dragons as an ACTUAL threat.

Auesis.7301:

When the next Elder Dragon is introduced, he needs to do something INCREDIBLE that shakes the very foundations of the game map. Imagine if, should Kralkatorrik be next, he swoops through Ascalon and mounts a full-scale assault on Ebonhawke, decimating the Vanguard and turning the entire city in to a shell of Branded nightmare. Survivors of the attack escaped through the Asura Gate to Divinity’s Reach, but with no surviving technicians to properly close it, the Branded pour out in to the streets and annihilate half of Divinity’s Reach before the Seraph manage to build up defences to keep them at bay from the centre and western areas of the city. The next instanced missions would then consist of you and Destiny’s Edge pushing through the forces of the Branded in an attempt to shut down the gate and protect Divinity’s Reach for good before making your moves against the dragon from northern Ascalon. But before this, the Personal Story mission after Zhaitan’s defeat is a case of you visiting Ebonhawke after reports of disturbing activity that has driven away even the Separatists. You then witness Kralkatorrik’s form first-hand, his IMMENSE stature towering over the city like an ant to a magnifying glass. With one sweep of his tail, buildings collapse, screams echo, Vanguard flee, completely unprepared. An officer yells in your ear to run for your life, and as you sprint to the gate, the walls of the city are crashing down around you, until you jump through the gate, seemingly to safety. But of course, you have to continue to retreat as the Branded follow you through the streets of Divinity’s Reach, civilians running in all directions in complete and utter panic. Logan and Seraph manage to secure a perimeter around Rurikton before it gets completely out of control, and there’s where it really begins.

That’s quite literally something I came up with only five minutes ago on the top of my head. We NEED to see the dragons as an ACTUAL threat.

One major flaw to your thought is you didn’t research the lore behind the Ebonhawk asura gate. It opens duing 1 time of the day and only for a short bit of time. As well without the technicans trying to keep it open it would collapse on itself. Unlike the asura gates in LA, the divinity and Ebon hawk asura gate is highly unstable due to the extreme distance. Great idea but doesn’t fit lore wise.

I think it’s universally accepted that the Zaitan fight was disappointing (though to be fair, in the storyline you had taken several steps to weaken him by the time you even got to Arah). Destiny’s Edge sat in the airship and didn’t even assist in the final fight.

Hopefully, ANet has learned from its dungeon boss design that interesting, multi-step bosses are what will satisfy players in the future. They certainly seem to be moving in that direction.

Arale.4207:

My opinion is, the battle involved the players very little. And that means its not only very underwhelming in terms of fun, but it means you don’t really get to test your skills against him. You just shoot him from an airship.

I finished the event, liked it, but felt it should have involved me much more in the actual fight. Here’s how I would have it play out. It starts off normal until the megalaser shoots off the part of his body. From there, he latches onto the airship, and you have to attack his various arms and appendages. He constantly swipes at you, damaging the ship and casts lots of nasty spells that you have to dodge or avoid, while keeping balance on the ship. You do enough damage to where he flies off, spinning the ship out of control. He then attacks the back of the ship, where you must climb onto rubble and keep your distance since his weight is tilting the ship upward. Eventually all the fighting ruptures the engines, and they explode. The ship is faiklling into the ruined city, with you ontop several broken chunks of it. The ship crashes, throwing party members and NPC’s around alike. Zhaitan lands on a large piece of coral, or a building that impales him. He’s still alive though! You then fight him on the ground, and he targets actual players and destroys the environment around him in an epic final battle. Rather then just doing aoes in places, he comes after you with his superior size and height. Destiny’s Edge helps out too. That would feel involving and epic to me.

The dragon events could take this same principal, once the lag is fixed. Stop having them attack the ground. Make them more dynamic and alive, I want them to attack ME. Make me feel threatened, rather then sitting there and pushing 1. If the dragons involved players more as opposed to random aoe attacks, they would be much more fun.

My opinion is, the battle involved the players very little. And that means its not only very underwhelming in terms of fun, but it means you don’t really get to test your skills against him. You just shoot him from an airship.

I finished the event, liked it, but felt it should have involved me much more in the actual fight. Here’s how I would have it play out. It starts off normal until the megalaser shoots off the part of his body. From there, he latches onto the airship, and you have to attack his various arms and appendages. He constantly swipes at you, damaging the ship and casts lots of nasty spells that you have to dodge or avoid, while keeping balance on the ship. You do enough damage to where he flies off, spinning the ship out of control. He then attacks the back of the ship, where you must climb onto rubble and keep your distance since his weight is tilting the ship upward. Eventually all the fighting ruptures the engines, and they explode. The ship is faiklling into the ruined city, with you ontop several broken chunks of it. The ship crashes, throwing party members and NPC’s around alike. Zhaitan lands on a large piece of coral, or a building that impales him. He’s still alive though! You then fight him on the ground, and he targets actual players and destroys the environment around him in an epic final battle. Rather then just doing aoes in places, he comes after you with his superior size and height. Destiny’s Edge helps out too. That would feel involving and epic to me.

The dragon events could take this same principal, once the lag is fixed. Stop having them attack the ground. Make them more dynamic and alive, I want them to attack ME. Make me feel threatened, rather then sitting there and pushing 1. If the dragons involved players more as opposed to random aoe attacks, they would be much more fun.

Suddenflame.2601:

Auesis.7301:

When the next Elder Dragon is introduced, he needs to do something INCREDIBLE that shakes the very foundations of the game map. Imagine if, should Kralkatorrik be next, he swoops through Ascalon and mounts a full-scale assault on Ebonhawke, decimating the Vanguard and turning the entire city in to a shell of Branded nightmare. Survivors of the attack escaped through the Asura Gate to Divinity’s Reach, but with no surviving technicians to properly close it, the Branded pour out in to the streets and annihilate half of Divinity’s Reach before the Seraph manage to build up defences to keep them at bay from the centre and western areas of the city. The next instanced missions would then consist of you and Destiny’s Edge pushing through the forces of the Branded in an attempt to shut down the gate and protect Divinity’s Reach for good before making your moves against the dragon from northern Ascalon. But before this, the Personal Story mission after Zhaitan’s defeat is a case of you visiting Ebonhawke after reports of disturbing activity that has driven away even the Separatists. You then witness Kralkatorrik’s form first-hand, his IMMENSE stature towering over the city like an ant to a magnifying glass. With one sweep of his tail, buildings collapse, screams echo, Vanguard flee, completely unprepared. An officer yells in your ear to run for your life, and as you sprint to the gate, the walls of the city are crashing down around you, until you jump through the gate, seemingly to safety. But of course, you have to continue to retreat as the Branded follow you through the streets of Divinity’s Reach, civilians running in all directions in complete and utter panic. Logan and Seraph manage to secure a perimeter around Rurikton before it gets completely out of control, and there’s where it really begins.

That’s quite literally something I came up with only five minutes ago on the top of my head. We NEED to see the dragons as an ACTUAL threat.

One major flaw to your thought is you didn’t research the lore behind the Ebonhawk asura gate. It opens duing 1 time of the day and only for a short bit of time. As well without the technicans trying to keep it open it would collapse on itself. Unlike the asura gates in LA, the divinity and Ebon hawk asura gate is highly unstable due to the extreme distance. Great idea but doesn’t fit lore wise.

Sure, I’m not saying it would work, and I don’t know much lore. Still, you get the idea. We need SOMETHING that terrifies the player and shapes the world in a major way, demonstrating to us first-hand that the dragons are a world-ending threat.

Mystic.5934:

his biggest threat is his ability to control an army of undead. who said he had to be all-powerful?

Er, it’s strongly implied that the dragons are more powerful than the human gods. They’re far older than the human gods, that’s for sure.

Zhaitan rose an entire nation out from under the ocean under his own power….and it’s heavily implied that his power was part of the reason that it sunk in the first place, since the Cataclysm that caused the event also created a significant quantity of undead and gave birth to a lich who commanded those undead. It’s never been stated, but it’s entirely plausible that the Vizier’s power came from Zhaitan.

Methinks there’s plenty of testimony that he’s rather powerful. ALL-powerful? Maybe not, but he should’ve been a hell of a lot stronger than he wound up being.

Are we sure he died? Did anyone confirm the kill? IIRC we shoot him till he falls and stops attacking. I didn’t see him explode into 1000 bits or anything, he simply disappeared into the fog of death.

Perhaps he went back into hiding, biding his time till he can get risen corrupted branded karma, krait, hounds and cutpurses.. Can we get Branded risen destroyers too?

gogoapoxy.1425:

Are we sure he died? Did anyone confirm the kill? IIRC we shoot him till he falls and stops attacking. I didn’t see him explode into 1000 bits or anything, he simply disappeared into the fog of death.

I’m not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand it’s fine to think that we can get a second chance at a fight, especially if the first attempt was mediocre. On the other hand I’m not too thrilled at the idea that ANet might throw the same enemy at us over and over, it’s perhaps better to kill an antagonist and move on to the next.

In this particular instance I’d be thrilled if we can get a second crack at Zhaitan, perhaps as a boss battle that spans an entire zone, and have a large group of players face him. In this case I’d be thrilled, as long as Anet doesn’t make a habit of reviving bosses over and over.