Guild Wars 2

Basically it is the reason why end game maps like Orr are completely empty, and maps like Queensdale are so crowded. Poeple pick easy loot=easy life.
How do we fix the high level maps in GW2 guys?

Devs always talk about bigger penalty over our stats when downscaled. But is this trully the answer? I think not, for 3 reasons.

1st – the mobs in the starting maps are way to easy, and makng them harder (like those in Orr) will be a huge turn off for the new players.

2nd – downscaling in this game works BETTER than the upscaling, therfore low level characters have no benefits whatsoever for being in Orr. Also they dont have access to all their trait, so this means less damage and survivability.

3rd – it is a consequence from 1 and 2 – low level zones are crowded with players from all levels, and the high lvl maps remaining empty.

Also isnt it weird that if I decide, I can level from 1 to 80 just by doing champ events in Queensdale, but if I decide to do so in Orr….well good luck with that.

Personally, I like the down-scaling. However, I think that higher level areas need some incentive to get people coming back and lower level areas need less incentive.

The problem isn’t the down-scaling, it’s the lack of incentive, as Enzeru said. Queensdale isn’t full because of down-scaling, it’s full because there’s a group of regularly occurring champions there. If you or ANet want’s players to move to underused maps, you have to give players a good reason to go there.

My lvl80 warrior got very easily picked off by two lvl 30 vets and the rest when trying to do swashbuckler’s cove JP. I had no chance, albeit in masterwork gear.

It isn’t that hard; downscale needs to be more dramatic so that higher level players do not retain the bulk of their abilities when they are visiting lower level zones. Since the incentive behind downscaling areas was to ensure that people could play with each other regardless of where they are at in the game, ensuring that players capability is more appropriate for the zone they are in will do a lot to alleviate the problem of higher level players being in early level zones.

Players should additionally receive awards appropriate to the level of the area that they are in. Certain events should be exempt (Shadow Behemoth and the like), but you generally should not be getting level 80 gear for fighting a level 14 Troll.

Events in early level zones should scale more appropriately with the population of that zone so that I do not need to call in air-support every time a champion decides to park itself in a major area. If is often a problem that zones which are mostly abandoned due to the population of this game being mostly level 80 do not have enough support to encourage new players to level up in them; instead they power-level up in the Queensdale train and miss a large percentage of the rest of the game.

Essentially; implement systems so that people go to level appropriate zones at those levels. It is far too easy for everyone to get to level 80 in Queensdale because there are absolutely no detriments for doing so other than personal satisfaction.

Warkupo, that would completely defeat the purpose of down-scaling. If you remove any incentive for players to go to maps other than what’s level appropriate, nobody would ever go to low level zones for any reason. Changing how the down-scaling works is much more appropriate.

yorick.1305:

My lvl80 warrior got very easily picked off by two lvl 30 vets and the rest when trying to do swashbuckler’s cove JP. I had no chance, albeit in masterwork gear.

Exotic gear is your friend. Full zerker.

Maybe only give big level appropriate rewards once a day then after that it’s normal area appropriate loot? Then people would run through once a day and then move to another area.

The incentive for going to lower level zones should be to play with your lower-level friends, or complete a map. Downscaling for easier content should not be as a superior means to level/gear up your character, as that de-incentives doing that in level appropriate zones and just results in the Queensdale hoard problem we currently have.

Regardless the result is mostly the same; If someone is as powerful as the zone they are in then the game does not reward you for avoiding higher level areas. That is not currently the case, and thus many people work towards the most efficient method of gameplay.

I also like Enzeru’s suggestion as well/instead. Make it so that you cannot just farm the same champion relentlessly and you’d have people spread out to all of the zones, which is likely a much better solution than anything I’ve said.

What they need to do is remove the champ train in queensdale. That would go along way to fixing it.

Warkupo, you’re not taking into account that the vast majority of players aren’t going to populate maps without having a material reason for doing so. In some cases, yes, people will go to help friends, but if you want to move players there en mass then you need to have a rewarding reason for doing so. Remove that incentive and either people will avoid the zone entirely or just quit playing because there is no rewarding reason for doing so. Enzeru’s idea is good, but it would only work for a short time. People might enter the area for a while, but like with the world bosses, would leave just as quickly since there’s no reason to stay. However, as I recall, your original case was trying to bring people into the Orrian maps. Honestly, the best way to do that would be, not to make lower level maps less rewarding, but to make higher level maps more rewarding. I know that technically the temples are meant to do that, but without a more consistent reward people aren’t likely to start pouring in. If ANet increased the drop rate for t6 mats or added more champs, then maybe it would pull more people in.

Becka Williams, there are very limited options if any for removing that champ train. The first and most obvious is to remove the champs entirely. However, 5/6 of those champs are tied to group events, which would mean removing the events as well. I highly doubt that would serve ANet’s interests. Another would be to change the spawn times for those events. This would work, but only for a short time. Someone would eventually figure out a pattern again and re-start the train.

As a level 80 character when I’m downscaled I should be at least equal level to the highest level mob on the map. I continually run into enemies that are higher level than I’m downscaled to which is ridiculous.

Meh, they just need to make it more interesting to be in the higher level zones. I like the downscaling and the way it works just fine. But I would like an incentive to move to higher level zones, as right now I don’t really have one.

I would like to see connected event chains again. E.g. image all event chains in cursed shore linked together. Orr is lucrative for either, bags and champ boxes. But there is often a long downtime between events. So if there is a train going on in Orr it often circles around the champs. In this case queensdale and frostgorge are more efficient. Also the scaling of events is much higher in Orr. You are dying more often.

Less stick, more carrot. If you want people to visit other zones, it is far better to give them incentives to go there, instead of just making it undesirable to go everywhere else.
Because people that do not see incentive to go anywhere may just decide to seek a different game.
And then you’d end up with maps being even more empty than before.

Part of the issue is CC/condition damage being totally useless in the higher levels. It’s a global combat problem rather than a problem with scaling. When the mobs are given broad abilities that both CC/condition down the players but the players cannot do the same there’s a bigger issue here.

It’s not limited to this title I can assure you. I’m playing another title right now that does this, certain skills work perfectly and sometimes even devastatingly in the hands of mobs but in the players of that particular class they don’t work well at all even when certain traits are maxed to improve performance of those skills.

I think PVE is toxic in general :P

Let me purchase level 80 characters so I can just buy armor and wvw.

Berelious.3290:

Warkupo, you’re not taking into account that the vast majority of players aren’t going to populate maps without having a material reason for doing so. In some cases, yes, people will go to help friends, but if you want to move players there en mass then you need to have a rewarding reason for doing so. Remove that incentive and either people will avoid the zone entirely or just quit playing because there is no rewarding reason for doing so. Enzeru’s idea is good, but it would only work for a short time. People might enter the area for a while, but like with the world bosses, would leave just as quickly since there’s no reason to stay. However, as I recall, your original case was trying to bring people into the Orrian maps. Honestly, the best way to do that would be, not to make lower level maps less rewarding, but to make higher level maps more rewarding. I know that technically the temples are meant to do that, but without a more consistent reward people aren’t likely to start pouring in. If ANet increased the drop rate for t6 mats or added more champs, then maybe it would pull more people in.

I am purposefully using a reverse approach so as to avoid power creep. You are speaking more from a philosphical stand-point I personally disagree with in video games which is that you need to dangle a shinier carrot every time you want to move a population. So you offer what? More powerful gear, better drops, more money? Then you have to do this every single time you introduce a new area or content and the rewards quickly get out of hand and result in that gear-treadmill that is also bad for the longevity of a game.

I am not talking about removing rewards, I am advocating moving the rewards to places where an appropriate level of challenge is associated with those rewards. Queensdale is not it. Places where your level matches the zone is.

People ignore the majority of the game content for Queensdale right now because the rewards offered there are superior to other parts of the game; move those rewards to other parts of the game.

Down-scaling will remain as it was intended; a method for playing with friends regardless of your level difference.

Even if my ideas are not taken into consideration, reward cool-downs probably should be if only to encourage players to spread out and participate in the rest of the game. I actually like this idea better as it accomplishes the same goal without having to compromise where people should be playing. Freedom without powercreep is better than less freedom without powercreep.

The downscaling is freaking nice in the game. Its not an issue at all. The problem come from 3 problems.

1) Rewards : You get some good reward if you do the champion run in Queensdale on your level 80. I thinks its boring and there is plenty of place with better reward in the game so i don’t go there. But some ppl like it or don’t know better or just want an easy time. If the reward were not that scale up there, level 80 would not go there. Ppl should go in Queensdale to do daily or level up their low level character not bring their level 80 to make gold. At the same time, even is Orr don’t give that much more reward for harder content. In the beginning of the game the event train was in Orr for gold, material and karma.
2) Lack of content in some maps. By that i mean content that ppl do. That mean that the content must be fun with a good effort/rewards. It easy to see what ppl do and what nobody does. The only things that Orr bring is some events like Temple or Arah’s gate. And the Tier 6 gathering nodes. Except that, not that many ppl will go to Orr. The same thing go for some maps like Brisband Wildlands (who go there except for map completion and 1 guild missions).
3) Orr is just freaking annoying. No wonder why Frostgorges Sound is way more popular. You get in combat and cc each two second in Orr. Its not difficult, its just annoying. The less time I have to stay in Orr the better i feel.

Funset.7893:

Basically it is the reason why end game maps like Orr are completely empty, and maps like Queensdale are so crowded. Poeple pick easy loot=easy life.
How do we fix the high level maps in GW2 guys?

Devs always talk about bigger penalty over our stats when downscaled. But is this trully the answer? I think not, for 3 reasons.

1st – the mobs in the starting maps are way to easy, and makng them harder (like those in Orr) will be a huge turn off for the new players.

2nd – downscaling in this game works BETTER than the upscaling, therfore low level characters have no benefits whatsoever for being in Orr. Also they dont have access to all their trait, so this means less damage and survivability.

3rd – it is a consequence from 1 and 2 – low level zones are crowded with players from all levels, and the high lvl maps remaining empty.

Also isnt it weird that if I decide, I can level from 1 to 80 just by doing champ events in Queensdale, but if I decide to do so in Orr….well good luck with that.

Orr is a depressing area and it has been constantly nerfed lootwise because people were too much farming there. And not only has the loot nerfed, the bosses in events have als gotten more life, more damage constantly up to a point where some hit you with 64.000 damage.

Personally i lost all interest in Orr after that at some point, and i think from my 11 level 80 character 7 have never been in Orr at all.

Thats the reason why there are maybe not that much people in Orr anymore.

The issue may be found in the loot mechanics.

Direct mob loot drops have a chance at being at character level, but mostly is not. But champ containers always drop character level loot.

Another thing is that Queensdale is right next to a major city, and so have bank, TP and crafting stations readily available (and the MF a gate away).

No such thing down in Orr. Just masses and masses of risen.

ArenaNet Managed to make the difficulty balanced… But failed completely at rewarding the exploration in lower level areas.
No matter there is chances to drop or level stuff, it will never compare to the drops we get from the Orr Maps for example, and that is not a balanced game as ANET insists on believe.
This is one of the things that damage more the “Facilitating Friendly Play”.

That’s why sometimes i did wish to not be leveling at all in GW2, and no scalling, so the things would be equally rewarding and difficult around all game. There is nice areas to explore and fight on, but it will always end up on “I can make more time worth more in other place.”

While this tried to balance the game, it also made PvE only rewarding on lvl-80 zones, that are still the areas where we can make our time exploring worth more. While this isn’t fixed, PvE Maps will remain mostly empty.

Zoid.2568:

yorick.1305:

My lvl80 warrior got very easily picked off by two lvl 30 vets and the rest when trying to do swashbuckler’s cove JP. I had no chance, albeit in masterwork gear.

Exotic gear is your friend. Full zerker.

Zerker downscales badly. It is meant to be addressed with the upcoming crit changes.

You dont need a huge mob of players to enjoy Orr, Southsun or Frostgorge. They are much more fun with guild groups of between 8 to 20.

To be honest, I don’t want the farm groups to invade Cursed Shore again and I like that they have Queensdale for that purpose. Farm groups tend to be less friendly (“why did you kill that champion out of order?”) and can take away fun with the zerg mentality.

As for downleveling, it is a major plus in this game – not because of entry level zones like Queensdale, but because of mid level zones like Harathi Hinterlands and Fireheart Rise. A group of 5-15 can have a blast doing event chains together in many of these zones.

ORR is empty becasue ANET made the decsion that they don’t want players farming in ORR. They didn’t want players getting loot in ORR. So no one goes there anymore.

Becasue no way will ANET allow people to play the game to get mats and loot when they can buy gems and convert them to gold.

its kind of something that just happened, and continues to happen because now its the norm.
1) Its not because of the champion trains, many maps have similar numbers of champions, probably some have even more.

2)Its not because its easy, champion trains will be easy in every zone due to having a number of people.

3)Its not because the loot is better, it isnt. High level champion trains ALWAYS give exotic bags, and the material drops for other levels are ALWAYS worth more valuable than the level 1-10 counterparts.

So why is it so popular? probably because queensdale was already popular even before champion train, it had a core of people there hanging out. Also champ trains need numbers in order to function, So whats more important than anything else, is that it has a bunch of people there. Even if say, mount maelstrom had more champs, it would still be better to go to queensdale, because maelstrom wouldnt work until you convinced the community to go hunt in another map. There are a finite number of people who enjoy champion trains, so when you make a new map, you are making other trains slower.

Essentially most servers can only support 1-2 trains at a time. For whatever reasons, frostgorge and queensdale are the ones that got popular initially, now, it really doesnt matter any more if they are the best champ trains, they are the best now, because people go there.

Warlord.9074:

ORR is empty becasue ANET made the decsion that they don’t want players farming in ORR. They didn’t want players getting loot in ORR. So no one goes there anymore.

Becasue no way will ANET allow people to play the game to get mats and loot when they can buy gems and convert them to gold.

honestly orr dynamic even farming, though imperfect was a better means of farm than champ trains in terms of rewarding gameplay that fits the game. Farming events had people communicating, choosing where to go, traversing the map, doing a greater variety of things, and scaling combat appropriately. However, it was creating too many raw materials and direct gold for what the economic team wanted, so they destroyed it, and made it worthless. Champ trains give a more controlled amount.

It is not the first time the desire to balance the overall economy creates worse gameplay incentives, and it will not be the last. In fact i think it will occur much more often than not. The fact is what makes a good macro economy tends to make life a lot more boring/grindy

Champ trains are popular because they’re fast and give good loot for the time required. Reduce the respawn rate or make them more random and the trains won’t work. If the champions only spawn once in a while or on a random timer, then when they’re up, people already on the map can pull together to defeat them, but the trains will fall apart.

No. Downscaling is fine. I keep saying it all over the place.

The problem is not downscaling or being able to get in a zerg.

The problem is that repetition works.

So people can kill the same champion oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, catches breath and oooover again.

What we need is flags in champions like EVERY OTHER SINGLE THING WITH GUARANTEEED REWARD HAS:

• Nobody can do the same dungeon path and get full daily rewards, they’ll have to do a different path.
• Nobody can do the same fractal range and get full daily rewards, they’ll have to do other level range.
• Nobody can jump the same puzzle again and get full daily rewards, they’ll have to find another puzzle.
• Nobody can fight the same world boss again and get full daily rewards. They’ll have to go to another boss.
• Nobody can try to go and mine he same orichalcum mine and expect it to be reloaded before the next day, they’ll have to find another node.

Why did they change rewards so you could not get them repeatedly from the same thing? Because otherwise people go to the easiest and fastest one, and stick to that, and anyone trying to find people to do other stuff with will have a much harder time to do it.
Have you tried to fight one of the Briban champions lately? Getting anyone to fight Robbary, or the Hylek priestess or the Demagogue takes AGES.
That’s why anything and everything with guaranteed rewards must have flags that prevent repetition within a short time.

But with champions, you can go and kill the same one repeatedly, and they will always drop a bag, and it will often be an exotic bag. And it’ll be the best and fastest source of skill points and exotics, and a really, really good source of gold, not the best, but so easy that becomes the best option for many.

Give them flags with ‘uses’ like a node, and the more you kill a champion, and the greater the difference of level between you and the champion, the more ‘uses’ you consume and the less times you can kill it and get full rewards. So a level 80 killing a level 1-15 champion would be able to get just one bag per day as you’ll use up all uses in one go (even if they are inside a personal story, since those are way weaker and easier o kill, yet they give bags too), but against a level 80 Orrian champion you may be able to fight them up to 5 times before they stop dropping bags, as you consume less uses of its flag each time.

Want more bags? Find more champions. They are all over the place:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_champions

See? There’s no shortage of champions! Why do people kill the same 4-5 over and over?

Because they can.

How to address the issue? Prevent repetition:

• Give champions flags that are consumed more with the level difference is greater.
• Add events for all champions without an event.
• Move the bags as part of the rewards for the success of the event, and stop them from being given when the flag is used up.
• Make it so players can see a Commander emblem across maps so they can follow their squad to the next champion in the next map.

Do something like that, and you will get squads of people traveling all over the world, and doing different stuff, instead a mindless zerg repeatedly killing 4-5 champions again and again.

Hell, I would personally start one of those worldwide squads for a while to get things going before people get used to the dynamic.

MithranArkanere.8957:

No. Downscaling is fine. I keep saying it all over the place.

The problem is not downscaling or being able to get in a zerg.

The problem is that repetition works.

So people can kill the same champion oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, and oooover, catches breath and oooover again.

What we need is flags in champions like EVERY OTHER SINGLE THING WITH GUARANTEEED REWARD HAS:

• Nobody can do the same dungeon path and get full daily rewards, they’ll have to do a different path.
• Nobody can do the same fractal range and get full daily rewards, they’ll have to do other level range.
• Nobody can jump the same puzzle again and get full daily rewards, they’ll have to find another puzzle.
• Nobody can fight the same world boss again and get full daily rewards. They’ll have to go to another boss.
• Nobody can try to go and mine he same orichalcum mine and expect it to be reloaded before the next day, they’ll have to find another node.

Why did they change rewards so you could not get them repeatedly from the same thing? Because otherwise people go to the easiest and fastest one, and stick to that, and anyone trying to find people to do other stuff with will have a much harder time to do it.
Have you tried to fight one of the Briban champions lately? Getting anyone to fight Robbary, or the Hylek priestess or the Demagogue takes AGES.
That’s why anything and everything with guaranteed rewards must have flags that prevent repetition within a short time.

But with champions, you can go and kill the same one repeatedly, and they will always drop a bag, and it will often be an exotic bag. And it’ll be the best and fastest source of skill points and exotics, and a really, really good source of gold, not the best, but so easy that becomes the best option for many.

Give them flags with ‘uses’ like a node, and the more you kill a champion, and the greater the difference of level between you and the champion, the more ‘uses’ you consume and the less times you can kill it and get full rewards. So a level 80 killing a level 1-15 champion would be able to get just one bag per day as you’ll use up all uses in one go (even if they are inside a personal story, since those are way weaker and easier o kill, yet they give bags too), but against a level 80 Orrian champion you may be able to fight them up to 5 times before they stop dropping bags, as you consume less uses of its flag each time.

Want more bags? Find more champions. They are all over the place:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_champions

See? There’s no shortage of champions! Why do people kill the same 4-5 over and over?

Because they can.

Give champions flags, make it so players can see a Commander emblem across maps, and you will get squads of people traveling all over the world in a squad, and doing different stuff, instead a zerg repeatedly killing 4-5 champions again and again.

which will make inaccessible, because there is no global chat, so how will you know where and when the wandering zerg is? While the idea is good in theory, in reality it would just kill the train for most players, as well as cause other issues, like more complaints about regular people killing champs everywhere etc.

I don’t feel that downscaling is toxic for the game, in fact, I feel quite the opposite. It’s a breath of fresh air that I don’t have to roll another character to go play with someone in a lower area. I’m not stealing their kills, I’m not one shotting everything, making it boring for them, etc. I can actually be more help than hindrance finally.

I do agree that downscaling needs some tweaking. Players in exotic are a bit over powered in lower areas, and now with ascended.. the problem is amplified. Certain attributes just don’t scale down (or up) properly, as others have pointed out. Although, perhaps with the ferocity change incoming, this might start to be addressed. Devs have stated that the ferocity change is but one step in a line of changes they are looking at for balance purposes.

As for people not playing in higher level areas… I’m going to agree with many that state there isn’t enough incentive. People are driven by the shinies. How can they get them in the fastest way possible, with the least amount of work. Excellent examples of this include the champ trains and the speed runs. Yes, some people do these things because they are fun; however, there are many that do them simply because they offer the fastest means of acquisition with the least amount of effort. You need something similarly incentivised in the higher level areas, and then you’ll see people there again.

MithranArkanere.8957:

How to address the issue? Prevent repetition:

• Give champions flags that are consumed more with the level difference is greater.
• Add events for all champions without an event.
• Move the bags as part of the rewards for the success of the event, and stop them from being given when the flag is used up.
• Make it so players can see a Commander emblem across maps so they can follow their squad to the next champion in the next map.

Do something like that, and you will get squads of people traveling all over the world, and doing different stuff, instead a mindless zerg repeatedly killing 4-5 champions again and again.

No. It would only result in people abandoning champs and looking for a next repetitious farm. Or sitting in a city playing TP.
The only way you could stop farming is by giving many options for loot throughout normal casual gameplay, and reducing this game’s reliance on farming (all the cases of needing full stacks of certain rare mats, or tons of gold, to obtain something). The second one is extremely unlikely to ever happen, so the best we can hope for is more carrots in different places.
Nerfing loot just because you don’t like certain playing style is not going to move those people to do things you want them to do. It will just make them angry.

Material drops and Resource Nods are the things that are not balanced.

I believe all tiers should be spread around ALL maps, to don’t force players to go all the same place to get the things they need because only 80 maps drop them.

Astralporing.1957:

[…]
Nerfing loot just because you don’t like certain playing style is not going to move those people to do things you want them to do. It will just make them angry.

When they changed dungeon and world boss rewards, a few complained about losing their repetitive stuff. But they adapted.

Now there’s people going for different dungeon paths and doing different world bosses instead the same one over and over.

You didn’t see people complaining about not being able to do CoF1 repeatedly all the time, nor something like angry posts of people saying in reddit and forums stuff like “They ruined my game”.

You may think you are right, but the facts themselves shows I’m not wrong. People will adapt.

The only problem that may arise from flags in champions is people having a harder time finding a zerg. Which can be solved by making the LFG tool work for looking for squads. Well, what about commander costing 100 gold? That should be changed too, to require seniority and experience instead gold.

Downscaling has nothing to do with Queen farm. If you removed downscaling it would be even easier to farm! If you have your panties in a twist because some people like to do something and it’s not where you insist they play, fine, but think about your fix before you declare what’s best for the game. I don’t love everything about the game but the team at Anet knows more about solutions than the schmucks on this forum by a factor of about 30million.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Astralporing.1957:

[…]
Nerfing loot just because you don’t like certain playing style is not going to move those people to do things you want them to do. It will just make them angry.

When they changed dungeon and world boss rewards, a few complained about losing their repetitive stuff. But they adapted.

Now there’s people going for different dungeon paths and doing different world bosses instead the same one over and over.

You didn’t see people complaining about not being able to do CoF1 repeatedly all the time, nor something like angry posts of people saying in reddit and forums stuff like “They ruined my game”.

You may think you are right, but the facts themselves shows I’m not wrong. People will adapt.

The only problem that may arise from flags in champions is people having a harder time finding a zerg. Which can be solved by making the LFG tool work for looking for squads. Well, what about commander costing 100 gold? That should be changed too, to require seniority and experience instead gold.

you are right, in that they should create rewards that incentivize playing in ways that are more varied/entertaining, and that people will always adapt who want to hunt gold.

However, if you make the wrong changes to rewards you just destroy things, like ORR, i would say ORR in the first few months was a way more entertaining and live place than it is now. Events constantly getting completed all over the maps. Getting excited when you see hoards of enemies. Now its just an empty map.

Why don’t they just go with the easiest solution: nerf the stats a lot more while downscaling so that taking a level 80 character using all exotic gear into Queensdale has the same level of challenge in killing mobs as going into Cursed Shore. If you can’t one or two shot mobs in Cursed Shore, then why should you be able to do it while downscaling in Queesdale? If the level of challenge is the same, regardless of zone, then maybe the population will spread out a little more.

Lunchbox.6970:

Why don’t they just go with the easiest solution: nerf the stats a lot more while downscaling so that taking a level 80 character using all exotic gear into Queensdale has the same level of challenge in killing mobs as going into Cursed Shore. If you can’t one or two shot mobs in Cursed Shore, then why should you be able to do it while downscaling in Queesdale? If the level of challenge is the same, regardless of zone, then maybe the population will spread out a little more.

That still wouldn’t totally solve the problem though. You throw enough bodies into the zerg and they will take down the boss. Most of the Champions in the train are already able to be brought down by 3-4 level-appropriate players, it just takes them longer. I’m fairly convinced now that the only way to get people out of Queensdale is to reduce the rewards offered.

Put a cooldown on Champions so they can’t just be farmed repeatedly, or make the loot-list appropriate for the level of the zone you are in rather than what level you currently are. Anything less than that isn’t really going to solve the problem.

There is downscale system so you guys can still see the level numbers in there and feel proud of yourselves.
Isn’t that the whole reason of this game and all MMOS for that matter??
Getting higher level number

The reason people pick Queendsdale over FSG and Orr has very very little to do with down scaling.

Orr used to be packed, it’s not like everyone decided to pick up and leave because of level scaling.

Lunchbox.6970:

Why don’t they just go with the easiest solution: nerf the stats a lot more while downscaling so that taking a level 80 character using all exotic gear into Queensdale has the same level of challenge in killing mobs as going into Cursed Shore. If you can’t one or two shot mobs in Cursed Shore, then why should you be able to do it while downscaling in Queesdale? If the level of challenge is the same, regardless of zone, then maybe the population will spread out a little more.

The problem with going to Cursed Shore isn’t that the mobs are too hard. It’s that it’s almost impossible to traverse it without constantly getting hit with control effects and conditions. It’s annoying as hell, so without incentive people avoid it. What is so hard about this concept to people. Annoying != Fun, so people avoid Annoying.

Funset.7893:

(…)
1st – the mobs in the starting maps are way to easy, and makng them harder (like those in Orr) will be a huge turn off for the new players.

2nd – downscaling in this game works BETTER than the upscaling, therfore low level characters have no benefits whatsoever for being in Orr. Also they dont have access to all their trait, so this means less damage and survivability.
(…)
Also isnt it weird that if I decide, I can level from 1 to 80 just by doing champ events in Queensdale, but if I decide to do so in Orr….well good luck with that.

What are you talking?
There’s no upscale in GW2, you can’t level up a character in Orr, just being in an area 5 or 10 level above your level you start getting one-shot, let alone try to level in an 80 area.

And low level areas aren’t always full, Queensdale is as well as Frostgourge Sound.
All the other 4 starting areas (and every map on the game for that matter) have just as many champions, people don’t do those because it’s their choice.

And the minute Anet does something like gating the champ loot they’ll get a ton of complains about it.
I remember about a year ago they patched some personal story missions so you couldn’t farm them, someone actually came in the forums asking if “we aren’t allowed to have money? Why does Anet keeps patching things”.

Funset.7893:

Basically it is the reason why end game maps like Orr are completely empty, and maps like Queensdale are so crowded. Poeple pick easy loot=easy life.
How do we fix the high level maps in GW2 guys?

Devs always talk about bigger penalty over our stats when downscaled. But is this trully the answer? I think not, for 3 reasons.

1st – the mobs in the starting maps are way to easy, and makng them harder (like those in Orr) will be a huge turn off for the new players.

2nd – downscaling in this game works BETTER than the upscaling, therfore low level characters have no benefits whatsoever for being in Orr. Also they dont have access to all their trait, so this means less damage and survivability.

3rd – it is a consequence from 1 and 2 – low level zones are crowded with players from all levels, and the high lvl maps remaining empty.

Also isnt it weird that if I decide, I can level from 1 to 80 just by doing champ events in Queensdale, but if I decide to do so in Orr….well good luck with that.

(face palm)

You play the way you play – And I will play the way I want to play.

Your first mistake with this thread is trying to force other people to your play style.

Downscaling is troublesome for poorly geared mid-level characters. Obviously level 80 exotic+ characters don’t feel anything from open world, but mid level characters that don’t update their gear are worse off in certain areas than when they were lower level.

Sure, they could buy new gear every couple of levels, but that’s why you see a lot of people bypassing this and zerging Queensdale and whatnot.

Lunchbox.6970:

Why don’t they just go with the easiest solution: nerf the stats a lot more while downscaling so that taking a level 80 character using all exotic gear into Queensdale has the same level of challenge in killing mobs as going into Cursed Shore. If you can’t one or two shot mobs in Cursed Shore, then why should you be able to do it while downscaling in Queesdale? If the level of challenge is the same, regardless of zone, then maybe the population will spread out a little more.

If they do that, what’s the point of having levels, then?

I love the downscaling in this game and miss it whenever I try other games. Ideally it might work a little more aggressively, making things slightly harder for high level players in low level areas (like right now a level 80 in a level 14 area is downscaled to level 15, maybe downscale them to 14 or even 13 instead, to account for their Traits and gearing), but the basic elements are good. I would HATE this game if I had to spend all my time in Orr or Frostgorge, there is just not nearly enough variety in level 80-only content to make the game worth playing at cap without the downscaling.

What is “upscaling”? When I ran with my lvl60 guard into Frostgorge I stayed lvl60 and got two shot by some mobs – as it should be I might add.

I do agree with downscaling not working well enough right now and the champ mobs before lvl20-30 are laughably easy, but it’s a bit of a balancing act, because you don’t quite want to dial 80s back to noob status.

Mattargul.9235:

What is “upscaling”? When I ran with my lvl60 guard into Frostgorge I stayed lvl60 and got two shot by some mobs – as it should be I might add.

I do agree with downscaling not working well enough right now and the champ mobs before lvl20-30 are laughably easy, but it’s a bit of a balancing act, because you don’t quite want to dial 80s back to noob status.

Probably referring to the upscaling that happens for LS and for WvW. Its not quite balanced either.

Funset.7893:

maps like Orr are completely empty, and maps like Queensdale are so crowded. Poeple pick easy loot=easy life.

People still don’t get it. Queensdale is crowded because it’s a gorgeous bountiful map. I don’t play a game to be trolled, pressured, and especially feel suffering. If Anet wants my money, they better make me feel good! Which certainly isn’t in Orr….

Well, if you remember, Cursed Shores in Orr was one of the most populated zones in the game until rewards got borked…