Guild Wars 2

SouthernCross.5286:

I think it would be more helpful for people to comment on what exactly they consider “endgame”

If its the old raid that you do once a week to get gear so you can run the raid again, and again to get more gear to run the same raid again, until a new raid is released and the process begins anew, then no that’s not in the game (thankfully)

I hated that too, but only because it was calendar gated, If I want to run a raid 7 days a week like a lunatic, then let me. The only problem arises when it’s the ONLY way to obtain “x” type of gear or BIS. I left wow cause of calendar gating, now i find it creeping into this… it’s unsettling.

Hellkaiser.6025:

SouthernCross.5286:

I think it would be more helpful for people to comment on what exactly they consider “endgame”

If its the old raid that you do once a week to get gear so you can run the raid again, and again to get more gear to run the same raid again, until a new raid is released and the process begins anew, then no that’s not in the game (thankfully)

I hated that too, but only because it was calendar gated, If I want to run a raid 7 days a week like a lunatic, then let me. The only problem arises when it’s the ONLY way to obtain “x” type of gear or BIS. I left wow cause of calendar gating, now i find it creeping into this… it’s unsettling.

I wouldn’t say that it is in GW2 at all. 3 paths can be done on every single alt getting full reward, the fractal daily can be done on every single alt getting full reward, but after you’ve done it does the instance close? No, you can continue doing so with a bit less reward.

I would try running each of the dungeons at least once. Each dungeons also have multiple paths that that may take a while.

Try WvW, other players are much more difficult to beat than any AI controlled character.

Fractals if you haven’t, jumping puzzles if you haven’t (some of them are bland but others are quite interesting).

Complete a map or two. Fight dragons once.

Follow along with whatever the Living Story thing is (although so far there’s not that much of it.)

Start an Alt or two. Pick a class in a different armor category (if you were a warrior, play a mesmer; if you were a guardian, try a thief, etc..)

Mirta.5029:

Hellkaiser.6025:

SouthernCross.5286:

I think it would be more helpful for people to comment on what exactly they consider “endgame”

If its the old raid that you do once a week to get gear so you can run the raid again, and again to get more gear to run the same raid again, until a new raid is released and the process begins anew, then no that’s not in the game (thankfully)

I hated that too, but only because it was calendar gated, If I want to run a raid 7 days a week like a lunatic, then let me. The only problem arises when it’s the ONLY way to obtain “x” type of gear or BIS. I left wow cause of calendar gating, now i find it creeping into this… it’s unsettling.

I wouldn’t say that it is in GW2 at all. 3 paths can be done on every single alt getting full reward, the fractal daily can be done on every single alt getting full reward, but after you’ve done it does the instance close? No, you can continue doing so with a bit less reward.

I never claimed that FoTM was calendar gated as badly, although diminished returns do tend to give a similar feeling and often end up causing the same lack of motivation, what I meant was the alternative “daily” laurels are where calendar gating has crept in, I honestly just hate when instead of offering up content that changes and randomizes (the best way of using RNG imho) in what you have to do with a lil choice peppered in, we get “do this today, then log out you’re done”

I understand the players that like this in a sense, I really do, I don’t like the idea of someone not being able to invest as much time and feeling like they’ve fallen behind because they can’t do so, but there HAS to be a better way.
Even the idea of letting daily’s build up weekly to a point so a missed day won’t cause you to completely lose out would be a little better than the current system. It’s like the definition of insanity, doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.

Also, I don’t think alts are the answer… sorry but if the issues are with systems designed to lessen the pressure of those with less time, claiming alt-aholic behavior is superior is bad.

Play Tetris…I mean FotM. Which level did you reach?

Onshidesigns.1069:

No such thing as endgame in any mmo. Endgame implies that you finished the game and quilting.

Your looking you reasons to play. Anet will be adding things overtime to give people a reason to play. Guild missions next patch.

Endgame doesn’t imply you are finished with the game and leaving, endgame is what you do after hitting level cap.

I joined in late, and I was astoundingly disappointed to see that after all the praise and constant talk about how amazing and revolutionary this game was, that it ended up being just another grindfest. I found out a little while ago that most of those people who wouldn’t stop talking about it have actually quit playing. Hell, by the looks of it, most of the playerbase has quit, even during peak hours Lions Arch is a ghost town. I’m level 70, and I haven’t done a single dungeon simply because there is never anyone to run them with, and without a LFG system, I end up standing around town spamming chat for hours and then logging off without getting anything done. I eventually just settled in doing the story line, which has massive slow downs from making me have to gain two or three levels between missions.

Part of the real problem seems to be people who just absolutely refuse to admit that there are flaws in the game. Problems don’t get fixed by denying their existence. Fully exploring the map, the oh so “fun” jumping puzzles (trolls end on a norn, SO MUCH FUN) or just grinding the same dungeon over and over because it is the only one that offers actual rewards isn’t endgame, and it isn’t enough to keep people playing. Until people can admit that and ask for more, we won’t get it.

Sad to say it, but I’m certain that after hitting 80 and finishing my personal story, I’m going to quit. I wanted GW2 to be something new and exciting, but it’s the same old stuff with a shinier coat of paint, fiercely guarded by the most overzealous fanboys I’ve seen outside of Sony.

The game works just fine for some folks…and not so much for others. There is plenty to do from 1-80 on any class on any given day. But if you can’t wrap your head around whats available? Then, ((shrug)) this game probably isn’t going to work for you.

That said…none of us really care if you are going to quit. If I get tired of any game, I just tell my friends I’m leaving. But I don’t feel the need to come to any forum and rant about why I’m leaving.

Hellkaiser.6025:

Also, I don’t think alts are the answer… sorry but if the issues are with systems designed to lessen the pressure of those with less time, claiming alt-aholic behavior is superior is bad.

If you want good gear, money in the bank, and/or have limited time alts are definitely not a good answer. The game definitely rewards focusing on a main exclusively if for no other reason than you don’t have a further drain on your resources.

They can, however, be fun. You are learning different mechanics and different ways to fight. If you are bored with the game they can reinvigorate you for a time.

Kakeru.2873:

Attila.6348:

I’m sorry, but what game does have an endgame? WoW? A game which you grind for gear, that allows you to grind for better gear that ultimately makes you able to compete in PvP which makes you grind for rank? Give me one mmorpg that has endgame, in which you wouldn’t complain about grinding. Please. I beg you. I will migrate to it right now.

Aion had endgame, with actual tactical PVPVE in either Dredgion or Abyss Fort Assaults, end game raids, rifts, openworld, world bosses that were actually rare (thought guilds did camp them sometimes), tournaments, player housing, mount collecting, flight races and challanages…… now that i think about it WvWvW is a lot like Aion’s Abyss suffering from the same probelm but with a LOT LOT LESS.

In Aion Forts your faction captured actually unlocked Instances specific to that Fort, there was a third faction the Baluar in PvPvE (WvWvW). There was Dredgion which was again PvPvE.

Just actual content that cottoned up “exploring” or “cosmetics” the thing was Aion had both of those, cosmetics were a big part of Aion but it wasn’t listed one of it’s main features it was just a standard.

In Aion you had to grind Abyss points in order to get PVP gear to even be a little bit competitive other wise you would get your butt handed to you unless the person you were fighting didn’t know how to use a keyboard. Gear plays a big role in Aion. I’ve had to grind millions of a abyss points for pvp weapons, armor and jewelry. The Dredgion i will say though is one of the best things Ive experienced in an mmo. Things have definitely changed for Aion with lower pvp gear being easier and being able to farm the Eye but back when Elyos owned every server and they had easy access to abyss forts for AP grinding it was a little difficult for an Asmodian to get ANYTHING. I’m having flash backs from playing on Zikel!

The content in Aion though did not come until after a year. We only had the upper abyss forts, Dregion, Dark Poeta, Lannok, Triorian and Drapnir Cave (the Elyos version sucked cause they couldn’t get the Bakarma spear from it even though it was useless until 1.5) and the Abyss forts were all the same. literally the inner upper forts were copies of each other. World bosses were one sided with Elyos having the best and they were always camped. But that was a long time ago now both sides are equal in that area. And world pvp was really great but it did kinda make a lot of people quit. Especially asmodians who were tired of getting rolled by Elyos decked in full 50e back in the day.

Anyways what I’m saying is that all that content that we were given in Aion came over a year after its release. And now that ive typed all that i see that that was a decent amount of content lol but I’m hitting reply anyway!

If Anet had continued with horizontal progression, I would suggest exploring the races and professions. That’s actually what I have done, among other things like farming. However, under vertical progression altoholic dreams are out the window as there is no way to maintain and progress multiple max level characters. It’s sad as I get a lot of mileage out of doing the same things on different characters.

good luck trying to get them to return gold farming (legit) in the open world because we doubt very much they will. Keeping DR and keeping the loot ratios so low and making dungeons the only place that drops loot is better for their gem-gold economy.

There’s many a post on this problem and the loot issues in general some of them 1400 posts long I wouldn’t expect a change anytime soon.

SouthernCross.5286:

I think it would be more helpful for people to comment on what exactly they consider “endgame”

For me, this states the problem. The OP and those that say there is no endgame don’t say what they think endgame content they are looking for. Lots of response from people who suggest what is available or tell what they do endgame but none of that seems to satisfy those who say there is no endgame.

I played WOW for 8 years and 5000+ hours and did almost no traditional endgame but I managed to keep myself amused by all the content, new alts, crafting, trading, dailies, holidays, achievements, etc. I am not saying that sometimes it didn’t feel grindy. Some of the goals I picked required grinding – like the winterspring mount. But I was always aware of a ton of other stuff that I hadn’t done that I could have. 60% of that game I probably never did.

So please, explain what you are looking for in endgame.

endgame is the game.

lvl alts, do some dungeons runs with your new class, start a pvp team, get into wvw, do the fotm “traditional mmo endgame” etc etc.

game is huge, but wvw and pvp and alts are definitely something to keep you busy.

at the end of the day, do you enjoy playing?
graphics, music, gameplay etcetc.

its a question of enjoying the “themepark” not necessarly the maxing of one toon only thru grinding.

and honestly, i did a lot of dungeon with people that had no “legendaries” and they were tons better than peeps with flashy weapons.
probably because legendary owners are legendary “farmers” and their gameplay skill is rusty

There is no endgame. Anyone who says otherwise is objectively wrong.

In GW2 I seeked the same endgame as in GW1: PvP and leveling a lot of alts.

Well, that’s just not how GW2 works and therefore I decided to take a break after FotM was released. Leveling alts is way too timeconsuming compared to GW1 and even if you reached lvl 80 you still have to invest a lot of time to get the BIS gear and to keep up with FotM, and that just sucks.
PvP is not rly balanced (at least it wasn’t back in November) and WvW had a lot of issues too.

Currently I’m reinstalling GW2 and think about giving it a second chance, but based on what I can find here on the forums, I doubt that I will keep playing it.

Vasham.2408:

There is no endgame. Anyone who says otherwise is objectively wrong.

Completely depends on what you call an endgame.
After hitting level 80 the end game would be Arah, 2 zones, Claw of Jormag, Fotm.
These are exclusively level 80 activities. If you consider the end game anything you can do with a level 80 character then it’s WvW, PvP, Dungeons, Fotm, ALL dragon events, jumping puzzles, map completion, aiming for a legendary.

Hellkaiser.6025:

Vayne.8563:

Hellkaiser.6025:

I’m not miserable, I’m disappointed.

disappointed by the fact that the game is good and like you said has the potential to be amazing, but is held back by obviously BAD ideas and directions that they initially seemed so against. I am after all this time on the forums having constantly tried to re-ignite any sort of respect for this game, unimpressed by the defense of the game by players who seem to think their low standards and expectations are the standard for “realistic” and who ignore the fact changes made have often totally ignored real flaws.

Bad ideas and directions in your opinion, which is worth as much as anyone else’s. These aren’t objectively bad decisions, they’re subjectively bad. Some people like some of the decisions you’ve questioned I’m sure.

I’m not defending the game designers, because I don’t have to. Two years from now, you’ll be waiting for a decent MMO and this one will be thriving and I’ll probably still be playing it.

I love how everyone on a forum knows about about game design than game designers. You should start your own company and make your own game. I’ll just keep playing this one.

It’s not my job to make a game, it’s not my chosen profession, I do have years of gaming experience to know that there are a few aspects to this game that can be strongly argued to be complete and utter garbage. This game shares aspects with some of the most notoriously BAD mmo games, many of which limp along abusing their playerbase. I’m not saying GW2 is as bad as some make it out to be, but there’s a lot of bad tissue that if cut out, would go a long way towards helping this game.
But hey, I don’t have their super secret data (A-Net) so I can’t tell if this game is in rapid decline any more than you can claim it’s thriving, I can only go on the assumption that something is amiss given that every time I logged in to do something in game most folks are sitting around LA on “full” servers not even bothered to do anything but talk complete nonsense and troll others… and whilst I fully expected a decline in players after pre-release and initial release, the actual decline has been SHOCKING. A development that had me concerned, which then led me to look closely at game aspects and question them. I would probably be less inclined to be so negative, if the defense wasn’t just “it’s all in your head, take your tin-foil hat off” or “it’s all subjective, which essentially resets any and all points to just, negating them”

And I have years of gaming experience, and I disagree with what you call complete and utter garbage. See how opinions work. Your years of gaming experience make you someone with an opinion, not an expert. Mine too. Welcome to the club.

And the decline in player population hasn’t been shocking, since the population in my server seems to be going up. Unsupported claptrap like this shows that you’re just making stuff up as you go along. What you have is opinions stated as fact. You tell me I’m grasping at straws. Nope. I’m playing a game I enjoy. You’re determined to tell me that game isn’t enjoyable. I’m enjoying it. Who’s right?

We both are. It’s not good to you and it is good to me. The thing is, your opinion isn’t worth more than mine or anyone else’s. In fact, I can almost guarantee I have more years of gaming experience than you, and I’ve probably played more games. And it STILL doesn’t make me an expert.

As for people leaving and not playing as much, this is simply something you have zero evidence for. It certainly contradicts what I see in game.

Ignoring some of the flames that have followed, I must admit I find myself in a similar place to the OP right now. I’ve enjoyed the game, played intensively for a few weeks, but now I’ve got 3 characters at 80 and I’m just looking around thinking.. well, what now? My friend who bought me the game has already quit for Secret World.

I’ll probably keep playing though. I have map completion still to do, and some gear to grind for, among other things … but somehow, it seems a little empty. Directionless.

The ‘living story’ idea seems a good way to provide direction – but is it enough? Can I even find it?

This, by the way, is called ‘player feedback’. Some games companies like to read it from time to time, before doing what they wanted to do anyway :-p

It’s right there, under that rock.

Meowwilson.5106:

800 hours of game play and I just recently beat my story. I haven’t even got into wvw yet either.. which is why i bought the game to begin with… how do people go through the game so fast? and now there are laurels and that new content stuff coming out. guild events and whatnot.. I still dont have the exact armor or dyes that i want or the weapons-this is all endgame stuff right?

Did you just AFK for 700+ of those?

Stormborn.1549:

I agree that there a lot of diversionary things, such as events and exploring but I guess I was looking for more character building and less fluff. I like all of those but at the end of the day it feels hollow. I’m not insulting the game, I play a lot so that would be hypocritical. But I was / am a little confused with the “incentive” of the endgame. Most of the time, I feel like I’m looking to find that driving goal to keep me going after I’ve gotten all my skills and the armor and weapon look I want.
As far as a guild, you are 100% spot on, I’ve tried finding a guild but so far I just haven’t found the right fit, but maybe soon.

I wish you luck on that I have a great guild that I have been with for a few years, we follow each other from game to game, the only game I did not play with them was The secret world….

If I could get them back into AOC, I’d be happy.

lunarminx.3624:

If I could get them back into AOC, I’d be happy.

It certainly had some potential, but stretching out the leveling process for like 40 extra levels didn’t help, and I still remember the blue screen crash which finally convinced me to uninstall inside my first month (only MMO I’ve quit that quickly).

Im sorry but I really dosnt understand the “no end game” debate.
I for instance have as my “Ultimate” goal to own all named items in the game, a huuuuuge goal, and not one I even expect to finish.., but its a goal.

So how is my end game different from for instance WoW´s?
I never played WoW, L2 player here, but I hear many end game debates using WoWs raids as exampel of end game.

If I understand right you have to do Dungeon Raids to be able to have chance on loot drops for a set armour that when complet lets you advance to the next dungeon raid, and hope fully never be “done”, is this correct?

Now look at my goal.
Its the same, BUT! I can choose exactly how I whish to advance towards my goal, and do it differently every day I logg in.
One day I might run acouple of dungeons for tokens to be able to salvage and get ectos to sell to by an item for BLTP.
Antoher day I might do some jumping puzzels to have a chance on an item in a grand chest.
If I have my daughter in my lap I might just go out farm some materials to craft a mystic forge named weapon.

So again, is “end game” only end game if the developers tells people it is and force them to play it a certain way?

Why the hate on, invent your own end game, why do you need to have someone tell you what and how to “grind”?

I dont even go for my “end game” everytime, its just one goal. Sometimes I just feel like playing PvP, and I do that, or help a guildie and I do that…

Is it any more out there that feels like this, or am I just the only very sattisfied customer of this game as a MMO?

I Love the freedome of choice, maybe this game isnt for religios people, Ive heard that they kind of need to be told what to do and belive

/peace out and happy hunting!

Celtic Lady.3729:

For me, GW2 endgame is called “dailies.”

This! haha WvW can be fun, but it is true that the culling makes it frustrating at times.
I haven’t done Arah exp and a few other dungeons yet, mostly because it is hard to get a group to do it.

Completing all dungeon skins, WvW, and ascended gear seems to be the endgame.

Games are designed to cater to the majority of the player base, not the bottom 20% and not the top 20%.

They COULD of created something so darn hard and challenging that only 0.5% of the player base could possibly have the skills and knowledge to execute it. Someone would eventually figure it out. Of course to prove their accomplishment, they’d publish a youtube video of the feat.

Shortly afterwards others would attempt to repeat the feat using the same or similar techniques. Before long maybe the top 5% of the player population has accomplished the feat.

While 95% of the population still has not (or is able to) accomplish this ‘goal’ what does the 5% that did do now?

When your finished with the game as designed you ether design your own personal challenges or find another game.

Zorion.7504:

Im sorry but I really dosnt understand the “no end game” debate.
I for instance have as my “Ultimate” goal to own all named items in the game, a huuuuuge goal, and not one I even expect to finish.., but its a goal.

So how is my end game different from for instance WoW´s?
I never played WoW, L2 player here, but I hear many end game debates using WoWs raids as exampel of end game.

If I understand right you have to do Dungeon Raids to be able to have chance on loot drops for a set armour that when complet lets you advance to the next dungeon raid, and hope fully never be “done”, is this correct?

Now look at my goal.
Its the same, BUT! I can choose exactly how I whish to advance towards my goal, and do it differently every day I logg in.
One day I might run acouple of dungeons for tokens to be able to salvage and get ectos to sell to by an item for BLTP.
Antoher day I might do some jumping puzzels to have a chance on an item in a grand chest.
If I have my daughter in my lap I might just go out farm some materials to craft a mystic forge named weapon.

So again, is “end game” only end game if the developers tells people it is and force them to play it a certain way?

Why the hate on, invent your own end game, why do you need to have someone tell you what and how to “grind”?

I dont even go for my “end game” everytime, its just one goal. Sometimes I just feel like playing PvP, and I do that, or help a guildie and I do that…

Is it any more out there that feels like this, or am I just the only very sattisfied customer of this game as a MMO?

I Love the freedome of choice, maybe this game isnt for religios people, Ive heard that they kind of need to be told what to do and belive

/peace out and happy hunting!

You are not alone.
I certainly create my own goals and end game too and I’m sure there are others out there- I am just not sure if they even visit the forums much less post on it.

One of the things I like doing is looking for Final rest- I just love the mystery of it.
So I check the likely bosses and events as often as I can and keep my eyes open for more clues.

I really like some of the named weapons too and am slowly working to acquire the perfect match to all my characters.
So far my main is complete but I don’t even have my alts at 80 yet (3 are in the 50’s) and I haven’t even decided what I want for them. Still looking for that perfect match

I also have an obsession with caves and love exploring them, I have found really awesome ones. When I see a mountain I try to climb it

I ran into some RP people the other day and joined them in a mad quest for a splendid chest that lasted 1:30 min and had me empty my bags 3 times ( that has never happened btw) It was awesome fun and all my deaths were hilarious.

There is so much to do in this game for me that I don’t feel bored at all- I really don’t get the endgame argument either- It seems so limiting.
I am also so contrary that if they brought out content today and stuck a sticker on it that said “Endgame- do when you are 80” I would probably ignore it and never bother. :0

If there was no endgame I wonder how I managed to pack 1400 hours so far.
It must be some sort of wizardry.

It’s all subjective really; if your endgame is a checklist of grinds you need to do in order to unlock all content aka invisible walls then it’s not really the game you’re looking for.
GW2 is more like “I want this weapon, that shield, that ring and those armor sets, I’ll play some content I like until I have them all”.

And then there is PvP but it seems like most MMO gamers are deadly scared of fighting other players so they “don’t count it”.
GW2 so far gave me the best PvP I’ve ever played in a MMO.

The way I see it, down-scaling effectively makes the whole game end-game. I actually hate that term, to be honest. ‘End-game’. Normally it just means one zone or one ridiculously time-consuming dungeon or raid to run again, and again, and again…and again…ad nauseam. Or it’s PvP I can do to get better PvP gear so I can be better at PvP so I can get better PvP gear so I can be better at PvP… (Putting aside the fact that nothing bothered me more about WoW than a player with precisely zero skill winning because he had full top-tier PvP gear and nobody else in the map did).

If that’s what you want, you need to think outside the box or go to a game that caters to that. It’s not here. I’m glad it’s not here, honestly, and I know there are more than a few people who agree with me in that. Just about every other MMO I’ve played followed that design, and so I’m glad to have at least one that doesn’t.

That said, on the topic of end-game: Go find something you like. That’s what this is about here. Level 80? You scale down, so go back and play other zones if that’s what you like. Enjoy tougher content? Try dungeons or fractals. Mass PvP? Try WvWvW. Team PvP? Try the other one. Personally, I enjoy running around with guildies as they level, quest, run events, whatever. Do I get jack from it? Usually not, but I enjoy the heck out of it.

The point is the grind is here if you want it, but if your only incentive ever to do it was to get the ‘best’ gear statistically, that ISN’T here. Figure out what you like about the game, and do that. That’s the point, isn’t it? The content doesn’t have to be new for us to enjoy it, does it? Just enjoyable. If you can’t find something you (general, not you specific) really enjoy for the sake of just…enjoying it…in this game, I feel bad for you (again, you general). It’s got its fair share of problems, certainly, but I’ve found it gives more options for ‘end-game’ than nearly all other MMOs I’ve played. The real problem seems to be peoples’ nearsighted view of the term ‘end-game’.

I guess it comes down to a definition of terms.

To state it most simply, the ‘progression game’ or whatever you want to call it is when your character is still developing, exploring, and you are discovering new content. Credit to GW2, there is a lot of that, and it doesn’t finish when your character reaches level 80.

‘end game’ is when your character has reached extreme diminishing returns on power acquisition (i.e. max level and decent gear) and when you have pretty much explored all the content at least once. At this point, there should be some repeatable content with clear targets, whether in form of tokens, reputations, or things to strive for.

Note the title of the thread though – the OP is not saying that there isn’t an end-game, he’s saying he can’t find it. And I’m with him. My characters at 80 are continuing to do stuff, but it’s not really clear where any of it is taking me. You get sent emails as dungeons unlock, guiding you to where they are – how hard would it be to get a heads-up on some of the other stuff that happens once you hit 80?

Endgame: You login to play things you enjoy.
Dungeons, fractals, WvW, sPvP, tournaments, dailies, aestethic gear chase, and soon we’ll get Guild Missions.
If you enjoy nothing of GW2 then it’s not the game for you.

I’m not sure what’s going on in people’s heads these days.
If a MMO is not based on a fake unlimited progression then “it has no endgame”.
If a MMO has a fake unlimited progression then “it’s a grindfest”.
You want continuous grind but you don’t want it. Decide yourself.

I say GW2 is perfectly fine with being a game about gaming.
Those who need to be addicted into a circular grind to have fun already have a plethora of games that offer exactly that, I don’t see why we can’t have ONE game that is not like that.

Why does there need to be endgame? All over the net, all I see is “sandbox” this and “sandbox” that. In a sandbox, there is no endgame. In the real word, the only end game is death.

Maybe they should allow permadeath so you people will stop asking about end game.

If the game was fee based, I’d be concerned. In the current state I feel no obligation to be online if I have nothing of interest I want to do. This leaves me free to either play other games whether MMO or console games and not feel like I am wasting my money running a sub for GW2. I like it.

I feel for those that don’t but to be honest I have left every other MMO after doing the end game and realizing it was the same thing I did on the last MMO with different characters. If you are someone who is serious about raiding – you really end up at the same place you are now very quickly I think.

Let’s take RIFT for example because that was the last game I played before GW2. It had the standard endgame, raiding and getting the best gear – but that took me a month after hitting endgame to complete. They released new dungeons and new gear and that took about the same time. Now they have an expansion out and I could go do it again but I am really tired of that endgame.

I have been doing it since EQ1 and I want something new. GW2 has done it. It still lacks in some respects but it is not the same thing again!

Red Falcon.8257:

I’m not sure what’s going on in people’s heads these days.
If a MMO is not based on a fake unlimited progression then “it has no endgame”.
If a MMO has a fake unlimited progression then “it’s a grindfest”.
You want continuous grind but you don’t want it. Decide yourself.

I honestly don’t think you can be more wrong abut that. GW2 is proof, it has no endgame, and yet it still degrades into a grindfest.

Hitting level cap leaves you with 3 major options. Grind Fractals (so you can do harder fractals), grind pvp (for…pvp stuff? I dunno, I hate pvp in all games), or grind for your legendary. Everything you can do, can be fitted into one of those three options. Each is a grind, and each is absurdly boring for all but a small handful of people. Now you may think that is fine, sure, but it means problems for the game long term. The idea of telling people to just leave instead of getting on board for the game to make progress and get better baffles me.

Look at it this way, with the game only keeping a handful of people interested, player number will quickly dwindle down. As the game hemorrhages players, options for the remaining players will begin to dwindle as well. Fractals requires a group, what if there simply aren’t enough players on to get groups together? All those super awesome world events, what if you are literally the only person standing around, hoping others wander by?

High player base is good for the game, and people asking for more to do is not a bad thing. Wanting more content and wanting a gear treadmill aren’t the same, but at least with gear treadmills I have something to do.

Bhargo.5306:

High player base is good for the game, and people asking for more to do is not a bad thing. Wanting more content and wanting a gear treadmill aren’t the same, but at least with gear treadmills I have something to do.

Content is something that takes time to develop. There has been new content released like FOTM and Southsun Cove. There’s nothing wrong with asking for more but it’s not going to happen over night.

There are two extremes when it comes to vertical progression. You have the ones that absolutely detest ascended gear and have threatened to quit because of its introduction. Then you have the ones that feel there isn’t enough vertical progression despite the introduction of ascended gear. They have also threatened to quit unless they get what they want. Both groups want opposite things. If meeting the demands of one group alienates the other then it probably makes sense to cater to those that are currently enjoying the game instead of those that are discontent.

Is anet going to comment on this? There are so many threads on this.

Endgame in almost every game, for example chess, means there’s only a few pieces left and winning/drawing is usually trivial. It is the point where it is customary to give up (if you’re losing) or propose a draw, and set up a new board. In endgame it is actually rude to keep playing unless it’s something like Knight/Rook vs Rook/Bishop.

In most MMOs, endgame is the point where you realize you can’t beat the game, keep playing at nauseam until you’re so lobotomized you quit the game outright in disgust.

GW2 has a chesslike endgame. When you finish the game, maybe it’s time to set up the board again (alt). Dragging out a game that’s been won is pointless.

I’m flabbergasted so many people keep regarding FotM a grind fest or gear treadmill and as such, a negative thing. In our guild we have several groups that started doing fractals after the january patch (since disconnects and game crashes no longer screw up the entire party’s progress) and we’re having a great time doing so. We all started out with 0 agony resistance but most of us got that naturally in the progress of getting to higher levels, it’s definitely not something you need to grind for. It’s rather the other way around: many of us are doing level 26-30 fractals now and passing best in slot rings to all our alts.
Doing Fractals ain’t grinding, it’s fun and getting gradually more challenging the higher you get. People are actually learning to play now (getting more out of their builds, picking useful utility skills for specific situations, taking on certain tasks (rooting and crowd controlling veteran grawl shamans in the volcano fractal for instance, as they get a speed boost at higher levels) and timing skills and heals better so the whole group benefits). Having ascended items and enough agony resistance isn’t a guarantee for success, it won’t prevent you from getting knocked back in Uncategorized or beaten down during the dolphin race or completely trampled in the Dredge one when approaching the mining turrets. People have to play well and they like that!
And of course we’re hoping for some really cool gear to drop (infused rings, fractal weapons, usable exotics) but even if we ain’t looting anything worth while (we’ve yet gotta see the first fractal weapon skin drop, in the entire guild) we’re satisfied with the fun we’re having and the satisfaction of getting bosses down with less-than-ideal party combinations.

Arenanet, keep up the great job!

U have pve, dungeons, spvp, wvw and fotm.. That’s a lot for the vast majority of us.. Want more. Get 2 legendarys and rank to level 80 in pvp… Seriously, this is stupid talk, I’ve put 600 hrs in and have only done 2 dungeons and I’m level 5 fotm.. Sure I focus alot on pvp but I’ve still got soo much to do

i really cant get why people need “end game”, it’s a game not a job… i dont understand the mindset I want rewards ! now !

Play for fun, go find a job and get rewards there….

Zeanix.8624:

i really cant get why people need “end game”, it’s a game not a job… i dont understand the mindset I want rewards ! now !

Play for fun, go find a job and get rewards there….

And use those rewards to buy gems =)

I thought I would have fun towards making a legendary as the ‘end game’ but grinding for the sake of having enough gold to get a precursor is ridiculously tedious. WvW would be a good ‘end game’ if it offered more.. As it is now, I’ve gotten pretty bored with the system already.

@OP: Its OK, you dont need to worry about that shortbow because you’ll never get it. Not without 100 tries in the mystic toilet, or dropping 600 gold on a precursor alone. Because spending ingame currency and BUYING your way to epicness is a step toward being legendary and unique.

@topic: I would much rather grind for skins than stats(ahem fractals). Why ascended needs to have an increase in stats? I dont know.
I want a reason to go to low level zones I’ve already completed and participate in DEs.
I want to be able to get that legendary after 3 or 4 months of farming. No, farming 600 gold for 6 months and THEN farming for the rest of the mats doesn’t make it legendary.

Stormborn.1549:

Ok, I’ll start with the required I love the game but statement………
It’s true, the game is fun to play, beautiful graphics, large amounts of content and then you hit level 80. Once I hit 80 the game seemed to lack purpose, and worse yet became the grind fest we were told it would not be. At least, that’s what it seems to be. Aside from 5 dungeons and cursed shore grinding all that’s left is to map jump and hope you don’t get mistaken for a botter.
I’m not one of those who think legendary weapons should be easier to get and I don’t care about th DR of precursors but at least give us more to shoot for than grinding for gold.
And don’t tell me fractals for ascended gear, that’s just another grind. Whatever happened to mobs actually dropping usable gear, not just crafting breakdown gear.
Now, having said all that, does anyone feel the same or have any advice that will, hopefully, make my comment dead wrong? I would like to think the endgame is more than starting the rediculous legendary grind, (I play a ranger and have no desire for the worst legendary bow ever invented for a male player trying to look menacing, nothing says fear me like a……….. Rainbow firing, flower trailing bow of the pretty pretty princess!

Look at all the achievements you could get done?

cesmode.4257:

@OP: Its OK, you dont need to worry about that shortbow because you’ll never get it. Not without 100 tries in the mystic toilet, or dropping 600 gold on a precursor alone. Because spending ingame currency and BUYING your way to epicness is a step toward being legendary and unique.

@topic: I would much rather grind for skins than stats(ahem fractals). Why ascended needs to have an increase in stats? I dont know.
I want a reason to go to low level zones I’ve already completed and participate in DEs.
I want to be able to get that legendary after 3 or 4 months of farming. No, farming 600 gold for 6 months and THEN farming for the rest of the mats doesn’t make it legendary.

This. People who say precursors are ok as they are probably got them out of sheer luck and wouldn’t understand how it really is for us regular folks. I’ve worked towards my legendary, wishing I would get a precursor while in the process of finishing up the gifts, I have been playing for a long time and yet a precursor still evades me. It is definitely frustrating. Grinding for gold is not what I expected from GW2.

Bhargo.5306:

I haven’t done a single dungeon simply because there is never anyone to run them with, and without a LFG system, I end up standing around town spamming chat for hours and then logging off without getting anything done.

That’s because most of people are LFGing through gw2lfg.com. It takes minutes to find a group there. Last time I was looking for a Fotm group I left my LFG post Alt-Tab back to the game and had 3 invites!

if youre the sort of person who needs a carrot on a stick to have a reason to play then this game is not your game… well even thats not true because there are legendaries for that.

I like to think that this game provides really fun end game content of four major types and does all four extremely well.

1) solo pve dynamic events and regular dragon slaying

2) group pve dungons and lots of them that are very fun and challenging to master

3) high skill pvp, tournaments and hot join to a lesser extent

4) large scale wvwvw tactics with seige weapons and defensive points

these are four very fun game activities to pick from and you ought to be playing because its fun. not because there is a carrot just out of your grasp.

Kegbrawl is the endgame.