Guild Wars 2

From the very beginning we knew that GW2 was supposed to eliminate the raiding / progression / gear treadmill concept of “endgame”. However, as I look at it now with two level 80 characters, it just feels like the game is standing on a weird intermediary spot.

On one end, they say the “endgame” starts at level 1. This message is reinforced with mechanics like the bolster in WvW. Yet, being level 80 and geared makes a HUGE difference in WvW; I’d say my damage almost tripled going from level 79 to geared 80. After experiencing WvW in that way, I feel almost useless when I get in with my level 12 alt.

They said content should be fun and challenging. They made dungeons especially challenging, which it does actually make them fun, the first 5 times you do them or so. But when you consider that to get all the gear out of a dungeon you need to do it up to 80 times, it becomes a HUGE grind; and the only thing worse than a grind, is a hard grind. Imagine if mobs in the outer world were all very challenging akin to boss fights. You’ll eventually try to avoid them when you travel around; simply because that “Tiny Loot Bag” isn’t enough incentive to repeatedly kill challenging mobs time and time again.

As it stands right now, if your aim is to get that cool looking dungeon gear, the challenge is not so much in the dungeon design itself but in how much tedious grind your mind is capable of withstanding.

The game tries to sell the idea that gear and level doesn’t matter, but in reality it does matter (except for SPvP of course). And on top of that, the ways to get that gear are more of a grind than raiding twice a week ever was. You can either farm events, about 720 of them, do dungeons, about 80 of them, or farm for gold (so you buy gear from TP / crafting) about 30g-40g or so.

Then comes the realization that all that grind only gives you one set of gear. If you want to try another build with your character that varies greatly from the one you’re using right now, you have to grind ANOTHER set of gear. That means the grind doubles, sometimes even triples, if you want to experience all the different “specs” with your character.

On one side, I’m grateful that there’s at least some carrot on a stick in the game. I like the sense of progression, it’s the reason why I play RPGs and not FPS (although even FPS implement some kind of progression nowadays). On the other, I hate the tedious grind that the progression in this game involves. I honestly think they need to implement:

- Cross-server Dungeon Finder.
- Lessen the price of gear.
- Make every stat combination available through every means.
- Converge dungeon badges to one universal badge.
- Increment the effect bolster has on WvW.

The plan, as I understand it, is to introduce a great deal more content over time. I think it’s only reasonable to let them build on the existing structure as planned. Those plans, of course, may or may not include the things you’re suggesting. I’m pretty much stating the obvious because I find it hard to witness a constant stream of posts asking ANet to dismantle and reform what they’ve constructed when the game is only 3 weeks old.

I have to agree on the multiple currency thing. After a while that’s what turned me off of rift

I love carrots on sticks. I just don’t really like being beaten into a drooling fetal position crying in terror with the stick to get the carrot. And right now, it’s a big stick held by a giant stinky Fist of Grind.

And it’s a baby carrot.

The good news is, I still have less than 50% map completion so I have a lot more to do in the world before I get truly “upset” about the grindiness of this self-proclaimed grind-free game.

And it’s funny you mention that gear really does make a difference in wvw. I did MUCH better when I was in my 40’s because most other people were also – not that I have a huge amount of time in wvw. Maybe 8 or 10 hours total. I leveled and geared kind of casually compared to what appears to be “average” in wvw now and I’m finding it less than fulfilling since I don’t have a full gear set built for it yet and I feel rather squishy.

Oh, and how can I have more than 50 kills but only about 20 tokens? I’m very confused by the process of earning the tokens.

Can anybody point me in the right direction?

The thing is, the reward is there, but it’s so far in the distance it doesn’t seem worth it at all.
Small things while we’re getting it would ease it, but they’re moving backwards with the last patch.
The rewards are awful, making it a gear treadmill would be even worse.

Agree with OP.

Saga.1652:

And on top of that, the ways to get that gear are more of a grind than raiding twice a week ever was.

This is sadly true. I’m still baffled as to why ArenaNet decided against raids. Raids don’t automatically mean a gear treadmill. They’re just highly challenging PvE content with good rewards. That’s it, really. I don’t understand why that’s supposedly bad.

Elydian.1763:

Saga.1652:

And on top of that, the ways to get that gear are more of a grind than raiding twice a week ever was.

This is sadly true. I’m still baffled as to why ArenaNet decided against raids. Raids don’t automatically mean a gear treadmill. They’re just highly challenging PvE content with good rewards. That’s it, really. I don’t understand why that’s supposedly bad.

This kind of logic is not allowed on this forum apparently. Even though it is completely true.

dungeons will be your “raids”.

but let arenanet balance difficulties/rewards first.

gotta be careful with the amount of players that are already at 300+hours and all the cheaters.

once it is stable, they will open it up!

otherwise, there are other games out there, and you guys are like too much for me anyway.

When they say you don’t have to grind your way to the top, they mean it. But it doesn’t mean there is no grind. They just moved the grind to optional paths. If you really dislike grinding, but all the other aspects of the game are enough to keep you having fun, you may, as you like, just ignore the grinding and your char won’t suffer at all. All you will miss if that great looks you wanted for him.

But if you think about it thought a different point of view, if they made cosmetics easier, everyone would look the same and after a while, noone would see any benefits on going after them. And we would have no carrots at all.

i expect wvwvw to get some love and being more organized maybe. eventually.
and it could be big.

By the way, I wouldn’t want a cross-server LFG tool to be implemented. Ever. But that may be just me.

While some of the criticism mentioned here is valid, I find it to be premature. The game is not even a month old. I understand that some folks have the free time to reach the level cap with more than one character, which is great! However you fall into a small and elite group of players who can fly though MMO content.

A majority of us can’t fly through content like that. I’ve just managed to get a copy of the game and have been very happy with it so far. I’m not worried about endgame. GW2 for me is about the story and exploration. Sure, I’ll try the hard dungeons when I’m 80, but that is a long time coming.

TL:DR – The game is new. The rest of us are catching up. Cool your jets about endgame.

man, i have 40h in 14days. im level 30.
and i think i abuse!
seriously i am shocked by the amount of no lifers..

Yeah, I think a nice little roadmap as to what is coming for the game would help alleviate this, what should I do at 80?, question. Currently I’m just playing alts for the most part as now that I hit 80 and my map completion is at 99%(stupid Malchor’s Leap bug!!!) I only hop on it now and then for sPVP, otherwise, I’m not really interested in “grinding” dungeons over and over or events for karma to get gear that only changes my appearance. My main playstyle is exploration and sadly, that is limited to how much you can explore. Adding housing and collectables(such as Rift’s artifacts or EQ2s collectables) and other mini games would help with this. As well as more pvp modes.

Love sPVP but WvW doesn’t really do anything for me as I spend half my time just running to a spot where the zerg is and that get’s old real fast. The running and the zerg fighting. Anyway, love the game, but want to know what’s coming and if I’m just wasting my time if it’s just going to be more of the same. MMOs need to grow and add new things to do over time to keep people playing, especially in a game where the cap is hit so fast.

^

the cap is hit so fast?
you mean about 80h total at a regular pace ?

game as been out for 3 weeks.
so thats about 25+hours per week.

well, yeah.
the problem isnt the game, its you maybe?
what game did you play for like over 500h ??? and why?

^
It took me a week to hit cap, easily. Compared to my time in vanilla WoW which was 3 months, Rift 2 months, EQ2 – 3 – 4 months, FFXI – never hit cap lol, hit 55 after 3 months. Lotro, hit cap at about 3 months. This on about a 4 to 6 hours of play per day give or take, depending on what I had going on.

All I did was explore explore explore and do my personal story. I hit maybe 10% of the events in the game as I plan to do them on alts. GW2 is extremely easy to level up in. Which is not really my point here. I don’t mind the speed it took to level to 80. I mind not knowing what the future of the game holds. In those other games, I knew exactly what to shoot for in endgame. This game though, it’s all a bit nebulous and fluffy. Doesn’t really engender longevity just yet. Basically, for MMOs to keep you coming back, progression systems need to be in place. I leave it to ArenaNet to make new systems to suit their game. Not the same grind dungeons/events to get cosmetic gear that they currently have as endgame.

Avatar.1923:

^

the cap is hit so fast?
you mean about 80h total at a regular pace ?

game as been out for 3 weeks.
so thats about 25+hours per week.

well, yeah.
the problem isnt the game, its you maybe?
what game did you play for like over 500h ??? and why?

We will be able to play Mists of Pandaria for 500hours plus easily. why? because it has a structured progression system and fun game mechanics for PvE.

Yeah leveling is quick in this game and I def have a life I only get to play a couple hours a night and it took me cpl weeks to hit cap my wife as well. If you have played since 3 day head start and haven’t hit cap I say your play style is very very slow lol and you like alts possibly didn’t craft.

Saga.1652:

- Cross-server Dungeon Finder.
- Lessen the price of gear.
- Make every stat combination available through every means.
- Converge dungeon badges to one universal badge.
- Increment the effect bolster has on WvW.

This bullet list needs to be highlighted in the post somehow. Every point is exactly what I’ve been saying since I hit 80.

ZannX.4058:

Saga.1652:

- Cross-server Dungeon Finder.
- Lessen the price of gear.
- Make every stat combination available through every means.
- Converge dungeon badges to one universal badge.
- Increment the effect bolster has on WvW.

This bullet list needs to be highlighted in the post somehow. Every point is exactly what I’ve been saying since I hit 80.

Silly logical person. your not meant to have fun at level 80 in this game. apparently.

Replace “strange” with “trash” and you have an accurate forum thread title.

are the dungeon fun to start with ?
(put aside the “reward” part for a second).

and really, every game gets trashed by the no-lifers.
ALL the games.
these people playing more than 30-40h a week need to get checked.

if you dont like the gameplay of pvp,wvw or the dungeon, then just walk the plank.

For me most discouraging thing is that if I sacrifice loads and loads of time to get my level 80 set and I want to try another spec I have to do it again for the same amount of time. I can’t put the items with other stats in my bank, just in case I’ll want to try it. No, I have to beat the dungeon 80 times to get one set and 80 times to get another. “Well, what’s the difference between this and farming boss till he drops the piece” – the surprise you get, the excitation if it’s the time. Because there is a difference – “ok guys, let’s try this again this time it’ll drop”, and “let’s kill this guy 80 times because I need 500 badges”. There is nothing fresh in it, nothing exciting, it’s just busy work that you have to do just to get to the end of it.

And gear does matter, try making level 1 character and jump into WvW, then log back on your level 80 (the same class) and jump into WvW, you’ll see how big of a difference it’ll make. Everyone having the same gear, the same stats and lack of diversity is boring, nobody wants to be wearing exact same thing, people like to mix stats, try strange builds that fits them. Here you got the traits but they won’t work by themselves, you have to mix them with your items and not only there isn’t big variety of them, but you have to spend insane amount of time on grinding to check if other set of stats will work better.

Avatar.1923:

are the dungeon fun to start with ?
(put aside the “reward” part for a second).

and really, every game gets trashed by the no-lifers.
ALL the games.
these people playing more than 30-40h a week need to get checked.

if you dont like the gameplay of pvp,wvw or the dungeon, then just walk the plank.

Oh they certainly are fun, the first 4 times you do them or so. But when you realize you’ll be doing them 80 times each, then the fun goes down the drain.