Guild Wars 2

We see the forums flooded with all these questions, the rage, and other forum things like people replying to threads without reading posts. I have a question specifically aimed at the dev’s, it touches a fairly sensitive topic tough(at least in my opinion).

We all know ANET is a business, and a business needs to make money. And after ANET was bought by NC Soft, many people were worried because they know that NC Soft is an expert in ruining games. Now here I come to my question. I have seen many changes throughout the development of GW 2, as I followed it quite closely as a die hard GW 1 player. And I grew concerned. I have quit playing after the game became something else, not Guild Wars anymore, but to me some sort of abomination. And the question I could not shake off was;

Did the developers really include all this for the players sake? Did they really think this was going to be fun? Or was it just a mechanic to try to keep players occupied as long as possible, so they can please their owners, shareholders, whoever holds the leash. Because to me the mechanics, and way to acquire things in GW 2 just seem more and more bizarre from a gameplay perspective. Its not fun, not rewarding, just tedious. And im not talking grind tedious. Just tedious.

So yea, if a dev or someone who really knows what’s going on could tell me, are the implementations of dailies/monthly quests as the only way to acquire things an idea the developers came up, or something the people in charge paying salaries came up. Whatever the case might be, it would not upset me, I just want some confirmation before I move on. I want to know who ruined the potential GW had for me. Was it the bad decisions on the development team, or was it the misfortune of our world that without money you cannot do anything.

PS.
This is a multi-part question.

I’d say they’re doing what they think they need to do to make money. They’re trying to maximize people’s playtime, and provide incentives for them to buy gems. Most of their tactics are rather Pavlovian. But none of this is new in the MMO industry.

Clearly there were some big screwups somewhere in the developmental process of GW2. It took years to release, was overhauled several times, and still isn’t really complete. My guess is that they started with a game that was in the spirit of GW, and were forced to make changes by NCSoft to maximise profits. I wouldn’t be surprised if NCSoft told them to release it ASAP, too, in complete contradiction of the “when it’s ready” policy that ArenaNet kept for all those years.

So the short answer is: I think they chose to, or were forced to, change the game they wanted to make in order to maximize profits. From an artistic perspective, it’s a blatant sell-out. From a business perspective, it kind of makes sense. I’m sure there are some very disappointed devs, but I seriously doubt we’re going to here from them on that. It would likely cost someone their job to speak out.

So all we can do is guess. We’ll never know for sure. I think I did a pretty good job of applying Occam’s Razor to the evidence, but I could be wrong.

It is just a game. Just move on and be happy with life, and try not to think too much.

Yramrag, this has nothing to do with my question. And should i not want quality for the products i buy?
Or should i not hope for success for something that i liked and gets a successor?

If i would just move on everytime I would be let down, i would have travelled around the world severall times already. And i bet it would not take 80 days.

1. Developers did it both for players and for profit.
2. Yes, they thought it would be fun. Fun is subjective. Get over it.
3. Long as possible? Assumption of Grind? Not even close to other MMORGs.
4. “not fun, not rewarding, just tedious” is Subjective.
5. “dailies/monthly quests as the only way to acquire things” Fractals, heard of them?

No one ruined the potential GW2 had for you but yourself.
How? Through expectations.

Welcome to life. Expectations ruin everything and anything that can be good.
It’s good to have expectations, but to place wrong or high expectation will usually cause what you are experiencing now… which I think is a combination of both.

High in that you’re expecting a perfect game within 6 months.
Wrong in that you’re expecting a GW1 carbon copy.

You’re mistaken. NCsoft did not buy out Anet. At least not before Guild Wars 1 launched. Anet was part of NCSoft before the launch of Guild Wars 1. For seven years, Anet has been part of NCSoft, so nothing has really changed in that regard. Maybe you should do some research before posting.

Nor are you specific enough in your complaints for anyone to actually coherently answer them.

So, a red herring is a red herring. Try being direct in what you think is wrong, instead of trying to blame NCsoft. And try being specific. Otherwise your post acccomplished nothing.

@CookMETEnder

Im kinda split, i would promote your answer as the answer that answers my question, but i can’t agree with many points of it.

First 2 points i guess i could agree with.
3rd point -> 5th point. I especially tried to portrait grind and tedios GW 2 play as something different. Grind rewards me for every second i put it. In GW 2 i will only get rewarded once per day for most things.

1 fractal reward on 10, 20, 30, 40 PER DAY.
1 dragon chest PER DAY,
1 laurels PER DAY,
2 comendations PER WEEK

All those things are limited by time. Not by effort put in. But completely locked out if you enjoy doing them. And thats my biggest issue, if i found something that i enjoyed iin GW 2, i wasnt allowed to enjoy it more than once per day. Or maybe 3 times per day.

And no, my expectations were in my opinion quite realistic. I expected a awefull launch, terrible balance for the first few months. And lots of bugs (because they werent listening during beta already). What i did expect tough, is for them to port the core of GW 1.

THE kitten GUILD VS GUILD MECHANIC. Or at least more than 1 pvp mode, they had like a whole goddarn bunch to pick from, and all they picked was the worst one that was played only by people who put up with kitten heroes. WvW does not count as it requires you to gear for power. And yes, numbers matter. Even if an enemy is hitting just for 10 dmg more than me, if they would not what would stop ANET from selling permanent minor damage boosts… i mean its not much right?

@Vayne I hope in this post the changes i am not happy with are more apparent.

The worst things about this game are:

DR – It only effects the player not the bots. Bots farm all day and it doesn’t really matter what they get because they spent no time trying to earn it.

Gated Content – I have to wait weeks and months to get stuff thats brand new. Im completely hopeless with this system and cannot speed up the process by putting in more effort.

Ascended Gear – Not so much the fact they released a new tier but how its obtained is so bad. Whoever thought this up should be let go.

Other then that is a pretty solid game for being 6 months old. But they have to stop now with this month long grind each day to get gear. Its going to kitten a lot of people off and its a horrible system.

NCsoft bought ANet years before GW1 came out.

Did ANet have anything out before NCsoft bought them in 2002? I don’t think so.

Do you have a full time job? Assuming you do, who do you answer to? Customers or your Boss?

If you think you are more qualified to be a developer for Anet, by all means, apply for the job.

Not trying to troll or antagonize you but please realize that while you are entitled to complain, those you complain about are people with lives and responsibilities as well. There’s more important things than your gripe about “grinding dailies and monthlies” and if if affects you so much, you need to rethink why you are playing in the first place

Orion i would apply for the job, if i knew i had the freedom to develop the game in such a way that gamers would like it.

I know what im entitled too, and im not here too complain. I did that months ago, i just want anwsers now. Im not playing, i just want to see where things are heading towards. Sadly most games are made with profit in mind. People sit down, think of a idea, and then ask themselves how do we make it so it sells most.

Instead of people sitting down, getting an idea, and executing it so well that it sells. As soon as you take a good idea, and start pandering to people so it would sell better, it wont be as good. Or at least as unique and original. Thats why you see all these mmos fail nowdays.

Games should find their niche, or create one, and not pander to the people playing games.

PiSquare.2904:

Orion i would apply for the job, if i knew i had the freedom to develop the game in such a way that gamers would like it.

I know what im entitled too, and im not here too complain. I did that months ago, i just want anwsers now. Im not playing, i just want to see where things are heading towards. Sadly most games are made with profit in mind. People sit down, think of a idea, and then ask themselves how do we make it so it sells most.

Instead of people sitting down, getting an idea, and executing it so well that it sells. As soon as you take a good idea, and start pandering to people so it would sell better, it wont be as good. Or at least as unique and original. Thats why you see all these mmos fail nowdays.

Games should find their niche, or create one, and not pander to the people playing games.

Sorry to say this, but what you said is extremely hypocritical.

What makes you think that your perspectives of what you think a game should be is held in common with everyone else? Anet has their own vision of their own game which they believe works. It’s obviously not agreeable in every aspect with everyone, and yes, including myself.

What is a selling point in a game is an appeal to some but not others. Apparently it simply didn’t appeal to you. Yes, the game had profit in mind (obviously), and to make that profit, there has to be appeal. The appeal can only be so broad and will always leave some disappointed.

PiSquare.2904:

Games should find their niche, or create one, and not pander to the people playing games.

Uhh…really? I thought games were made for people who play games?

OT:

NCSoft bought into ANet back in 2002. That’s where ANet got the funding to make GW.

Things like ‘fun’ and ‘grind’ are indeed subjective, so you can’t say outright that the game isn’t fun. It’s just not fun for you.

As for answers concerning the company, you won’t get answers to questions concerning business decisions.

PiSquare.2904:

Orion i would apply for the job, if i knew i had the freedom to develop the game in such a way that gamers would like it.

That’s an illusion. If that’s the only job you’d accept, you will never have one.

Simply put, making the gamers like it, is what brings in money. But the primary target is the money, not the players.

I have almost absolute freedom to keep my customers happy, but only because keeping them happy is what makes them buy more. Happy for happiness sake is guano.

I’m saying the industry doesn’t work that way (not anymore at least if you are 40 years old now). Just like if you flip burgers or push numbers for a living, your Boss has final say. You can’t demand the developers to answer to you because they dont. I admire you if you dont play out of principles.

“Instead of people sitting down, getting an idea, and executing it so well that it sells.”

You say this but you dont understand that they ARE doing what sells. Who decides what sells? Market research. Data accumulated legally and illegally. If they didn’t do what sells, they would go bankrupt and GW2 would end.

(cont. later)

PiSquare.2904:

@CookMETEnder

…Grind rewards me for every second i put it. In GW 2 i will only get rewarded once per day for most things.

1 fractal reward on 10, 20, 30, 40 PER DAY.
1 dragon chest PER DAY,
1 laurels PER DAY,
2 comendations PER WEEK

All those things are limited by time. Not by effort put in. But completely locked out if you enjoy doing them. And thats my biggest issue, if i found something that i enjoyed iin GW 2, i wasnt allowed to enjoy it more than once per day. Or maybe 3 times per day.

You aren’t locked out of repeating them. You simply aren’t rewarded in the same manner! But if you enjoy doing them, why don’t you do them? Because you don’t get the same rewards?

And no, my expectations were in my opinion quite realistic. I expected a awefull launch, terrible balance for the first few months. And lots of bugs (because they werent listening during beta already). What i did expect tough, is for them to port the core of GW 1.

This was the horrible sad truth! Why would they port the core of GW1 into GW2? It’s a new game that only shares the name and the Lore with GW1. So the hard truth is that your expectations were in fact biased by the need of wanting a GW1 carbon copy.

THE kitten GUILD VS GUILD MECHANIC. Or at least more than 1 pvp mode, they had like a whole goddarn bunch to pick from, and all they picked was the worst one that was played only by people who put up with kitten heroes. WvW does not count as it requires you to gear for power. And yes, numbers matter. Even if an enemy is hitting just for 10 dmg more than me, if they would not what would stop ANET from selling permanent minor damage boosts… i mean its not much right?
…

They are launching content every month! Tweeking it every week! You can’t possible want the same content that existed in previous MMO’s (7 years, 6 years, 4 years) in a 6 month períod. You simply can’t!
The game needs it? Yes it does!
When? As soon as it is ready!

Let us say the the developers answer you, knowing full well that they will lose their job and the answer removed immediately from this forum. His/Her life will be ruined. Is it worth it?

I hate the pandering and capitalism in the gaming industry as well. But its not the fault of people who make games, its the people who play them.

As a art director and freelance graphic designer i can tell you the final product is more often than not what i intended. Your superiors don’t care about your artistic vision or originality. If something is already good, they will still change it and claim they made it better. Fact.

Your beef should not be with the developers but the MANAGEMENT. If you want to make a difference, make a video hi lighting your views on youtube and get players to support you. If you have (lets say) 100,000 behind you, can they risk not taking notice? That is more effective and constructive than bashing the devs here.

…Or you can check out Firefall who i heard have some very down to earth people working on it and is attempting something very risky ideas in an MMO.

btw, “Or was it just a mechanic to try to keep players occupied as long as possible” ~the golden rule of making every MMO. Don’t knock it. Would you be playing if nothing keeps you occupied? What is the worth of a great idea that only keeps you occupied for less than a month? If ascendeds took 1 day to obtain, why would you still be around after that?

I enjoy doing some of those things, but i enjoy them because they gave me rewards that allowed me to progress in the game or towards a goal. If they lock that out i feel like there is no point in doing it as i will achieve nothing.

And ooooh boy.

Now you really found my weak spot. You know why i expected the core of the previous game to be ported? Because thats the point of a sequel. And because ANET was parading around how they want GW 2 to be an e-sport even. Soo many things the fans of pvp from the first game will have to do. Also i expected the bare minimum the first GW launched with.

Yes. GW 1 launched with GvG, team arenas, random arenas, lower lvl pvp arenas, heroes ascent. AND A main story to boot, with optional “endgame” in the shape of temple of the ages. Where you got 2 dungeons, Fissure of Woe, and Underworld. I didnt expect refined content. But i expected that they would take what they learned in all those years of GW 1, and apply some of it.

But yea, you are completely right, fun is subjective, quality and progress is not tough, because you can compare things to determine quality and progress. And in terms of story, pvp content, pvp options, GW 2 is of a lower quality than GW 1 way on launch.

Im not saying GW 1 was perfect as it had more than enough problems. But it had content, and was not punishing people who wanted to play as they liked, instead of how ANET wanted.

But yea, that subjective fun sure does show when my guild who used to be a 500 man active guild, with more applications comming in that we had to refuse because we had active people. To a bare minimum of 10 people online when i last logged in to check up on a friend (who is apparently not playing anymore as well i guess).

PiSquare.2904:

I enjoy doing some of those things, but i enjoy them because they gave me rewards that allowed me to progress in the game or towards a goal. If they lock that out i feel like there is no point in doing it as i will achieve nothing.

This mindset is why you don’t find the game fun. If you’re playing GW2 for a constant reward stream for the entirety of your play session, you’re going to be disappointed.

If you play GW2 for fun and the rewards are icing on the cake, you’ll enjoy your time more.

I’m not here to dictate that you’re playing wrong, just pointing out the kind of play style the game seems to be built for.

Anet has been a part of NCSoft since 2002.

Aka before GW1 even came out. If you were a ‘die hard gw fan’ you were a die hard NCSoft game fan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArenaNet

With no monthly fee they’re under no obligation to create content that keeps people logging in day after day (as that doesn’t grant them any more profit than the guy logging in once a month) yet it does appear a lot of the content they’re putting in is like this is a subscription game.

It is very weird, and I don’t expect you’ll ever get an official answer to your question.

They said in the past (before the game came out) that their focus was on making the game FUN and that being why they want people play as opposed to other games full of daily chores and responsibilities that keep you logging in. However I haven’t really seen them act on their words (though I do find parts of the game fun, of course – just not the daily/monthly crap they keep patching in).

PiSquare.2904:

Games should find their niche, or create one, and not pander to the people playing games.

I have read this sentence at least a dozen times and it still makes me scratch my head.

It would be nice to have an MMO where the design team made clear what their goals were for systems and changes to those systems.

Example: We believe the purpose of the dailies is X. We think our initial attempt fell short of these goals in these ways, so we’re making the following changes.

(In this example, I try to fill in the answers for them and I come up short, it almost seems like the designers are throwing darts at a wall. Nothing was really accomplished by the new daily system except change for change’s sake….as far as I can tell)

Unfortunately, no MMO team has seemed to be willing to be so forthright and honest with the players, perhaps because they know how whiny they get if they found out the developers were pursuing design goals they didn’t agree with….

Zosk.5609:

It would be nice to have an MMO where the design team made clear what their goals were for systems and changes to those systems.

Example: We believe the purpose of the dailies is X. We think our initial attempt fell short of these goals in these ways, so we’re making the following changes.

(In this example, I try to fill in the answers for them and I come up short, it almost seems like the designers are throwing darts at a wall. Nothing was really accomplished by the new daily system except change for change’s sake….as far as I can tell)

Unfortunately, no MMO team has seemed to be willing to be so forthright and honest with the players, perhaps because they know how whiny they get if they found out the developers were pursuing design goals they didn’t agree with….

Well the folks at the late Paragon Studio, who were in charge of City of Heroes for the last 5 or so years were very open with the players. From how the combat system works to actual numerical data on every power and effect in the game. They adjusted the XP curve, reduced the death penalty significantly and provided means in game to give players hard numbers versus descriptive prose about the effectiveness of this power over that.

Yes sometimes they didn’t heed our concerns only to have some new much touted feature blow up in their face (user generated content, “new” PvP rules) but it was a two way street. Costume part suggestions were taken seriously and a lot of times they were implemented.

Plus they and the forum mods had a sense of humor with forum posters when it came to discussions about aspects of the game. You felt listened to.

PiSquare.2904:

Orion i would apply for the job, if i knew i had the freedom to develop the game in such a way that gamers would like it.

I know what im entitled too, and im not here too complain. I did that months ago, i just want anwsers now. Im not playing, i just want to see where things are heading towards. Sadly most games are made with profit in mind. People sit down, think of a idea, and then ask themselves how do we make it so it sells most.

Instead of people sitting down, getting an idea, and executing it so well that it sells. As soon as you take a good idea, and start pandering to people so it would sell better, it wont be as good. Or at least as unique and original. Thats why you see all these mmos fail nowdays.

Games should find their niche, or create one, and not pander to the people playing games.

Go try developing games first before saying that games are only made with profit in mind… Video game developers put their heart into their creations, and they all work very hard. Have you heard about how people said the pay for a game developer is low for the amount of stress and time put it? They make games because it’s their passion.

But in the real world, you have to pace your gamers. You have limits such as time limitation, and the human body limitations. You can’t just spew out content that’s easy to do. You have to adjust content so that it takes players enough time to do before your next content patch comes out.

And Anet really do listen to player feedback. Pre-Nov 15, people complained about no end-game, and endgame gear being way to easy to obtain. The solution: a long term goal of slow progression over the year tied with content release.

I like GW2 more and more with each patch, even though there are content that takes longer to reach, I don’t really mind. I’m not in a rush to burn through all the content… Now the question is, are you? Time gates are a measure against preventing you from playing in a way that will burn you out. DR is similar too. It’s a mechanic that is meant to tell you “You need to rest”. Is it smart? Maybe. Some people don’t mind, and some people hate it. Personally, I don’t mind because I rarely play more than 3 hours a day, and why would I? I play the game for enjoyment, not for cramming.

kenshinakh.3672:

Go try developing games first before saying that games are only made with profit in mind… Video game developers put their heart into their creations, and they all work very hard. Have you heard about how people said the pay for a game developer is low for the amount of stress and time put it? They make games because it’s their passion.

Well, nearly all games are developed for profit. The developers themselves may be quite passionate about their work but at the end of the day they are working for money that has to come from somewhere to at least keep some of them fed (while some can survive by feasting on the bitter tears of distraught forum posters).

Behellagh.1468:

kenshinakh.3672:

Go try developing games first before saying that games are only made with profit in mind… Video game developers put their heart into their creations, and they all work very hard. Have you heard about how people said the pay for a game developer is low for the amount of stress and time put it? They make games because it’s their passion.

Well, nearly all games are developed for profit. The developers themselves may be quite passionate about their work but at the end of the day they are working for money that has to come from somewhere to at least keep some of them fed (while some can survive by feasting on the bitter tears of distraught forum posters).

Well, you do need money to live :P if you spend all your time developing games (it really leaves little time for anything else).

PiSquare.2904:

Orion i would apply for the job, if i knew i had the freedom to develop the game in such a way that gamers would like it.

Instead of people sitting down, getting an idea, and executing it so well that it sells. As soon as you take a good idea, and start pandering to people so it would sell better, it wont be as good. Or at least as unique and original. Thats why you see all these mmos fail nowdays.

Games should find their niche, or create one, and not pander to the people playing games.

I’ve got a challenge for you!
You obviously got some big ideas of how to make the perfect MMO, instead of kittening about this one, why don’t you write your manifesto, I would work a bit on that if I were you, and then get it going through crowd funding!
Should be really easy!
Your problem is essentially sorted! Please keep us posted about upcoming features, or thinking about it, don’t keep us posted, wouldn’t want you to “pander” to people playing games.

OP talks as if everyone is in agreement on what these bad mechanics are.

A tedious mechanic to me would be having to farm the timed world pinatas to get the most loot. That’s not challenging and it can only be done at specific times, and it encourages server hopping of all things.

There’s nothing wrong with running dungeons or fractals for the most gear as that at least requires some effort and you can do it whenever you want, you don’t have to line up out in front of the dragon for your welfare rares.

I worry about how personally connected some of you feel to the developement team (abstractualised) and the game (well mostly its predecessor GW1).

When looking at threads like this I have to ask the poster three questions:
1. Have you ever been involved in projects that run over several years, several teams, with the intent of producing a marketable good/service at the end?
2. Have you ever seen the outcome of a product developed in a vacuum to be a direct replacement for their earlier versions? Only Apple can get away with this (for only so long).
3. Have you in fact stumbled onto a market segment scorned that could be exploited for profit, and in which case why are you here rather than making the millions that Anet is ignoring?

But I think one thing that should be shouted out to all the GW1 hardcores and those who sat baited breath for years waiting for the manifesto to… well manifest – hey guys – you mad?

@ post above me: I find personal feelings completely irrelevant in terms of defining what a game’s fundamental flaws are. Yes, and I mean are.

Everyone has their opinions about the game, whether personal or not, Anet does not consider feelings into the matter. They look at things from systems, these are perspectives in which most of us (unless in engineering) would not understand.

Although you’re right to some degree. There is a certain way of doing things…. but it’s definitely not based on public manifests and manipulations of the economy. Good engineers or software developers generally take “good use of talent” over “the money”…. and it’s generally impossible to maintain a complex system like a game with loop-holes everywhere.

Also, apples is a large branding company (I mean, a company that can sell simply with brand and having mediocre growth in their technology implementation) so it is different from GW2….. the larger a company is then the more management involvement exists, which typically results in having more branding marketing than one would want (again, marketing is fine up until the point where it needs to inject itself into the system and manipulate the results).

You need to understand that a way to gate players from immediately getting items is necessary to prevent early content exhaustion through grinding.
Without this concept clear in your mind you shouldn’t even step into a MMO.

That being said, the current options are grind gating, time gating and no gating.
If Anet added no gating game would be empty.
If Anet added grind gating a lot of people would be crying.
If Anet added time gating a few people would be crying.

They’ve chosen the least complained of the 3 possibilities.

If you have a better option that keeps players playing with a progression, but without the flaws of the current system go ahead and let us know.

FluffyDoe.7539:

@ post above me: I find personal feelings completely irrelevant in terms of defining what a game’s fundamental flaws are. Yes, and I mean are.

Everyone has their opinions about the game, whether personal or not, Anet does not consider feelings into the matter. They look at things from systems, these are perspectives in which most of us (unless in engineering) would not understand.

Although you’re right to some degree. There is a certain way of doing things…. but it’s definitely not based on public manifests and manipulations of the economy. Good engineers or software developers generally take “good use of talent” over “the money”…. and it’s generally impossible to maintain a complex system like a game with loop-holes everywhere.

Also, apples is a large branding company (I mean, a company that can sell simply with brand and having mediocre growth technology) so it is different from GW2….. the larger a company is then the more management involvement exists, which typically results in having more branding marketing than one would want (again, marketing is fine up until the point where it needs to inject itself into the system and manipulate the results).

Oh – but quite the opposite in this case, if one is asking for answers based on their perceptions and opinions – the listener knowing a little about how they are formed, or more to the point what they may be missing, is key to communicating well. “Personal” is not a dirty word i this case.

There is still a lot of assumptions that we have to accept in the OP, I will attempt to do that in the good faith that intricate aspects of pragmatic, profit orientated, software development are in fact lost as inferred.

But those points, aside – sorry what were you trying to convey there – that Anet are not using their talent well, are profiteering at the sake of the product?

My point regarding Apple is that not even they could buy their way out of “more of the same” type publicity – which is what all the GW1/Manifesto kids are asking for, a shiny version of the last generation product, even hipsters moved on (Apple example)…

Vinny.6924:

The worst things about this game are:

DR – It only effects the player not the bots. Bots farm all day and it doesn’t really matter what they get because they spent no time trying to earn it.

Gated Content – I have to wait weeks and months to get stuff thats brand new. Im completely hopeless with this system and cannot speed up the process by putting in more effort.

Ascended Gear – Not so much the fact they released a new tier but how its obtained is so bad. Whoever thought this up should be let go.

Other then that is a pretty solid game for being 6 months old. But they have to stop now with this month long grind each day to get gear. Its going to kitten a lot of people off and its a horrible system.

DR – the idea came from Smiter’s Boon
Gated Content – the idea also came from Smiter’s Boon
Ascended Gear – the idea definitely came from Smiter’s Boon

Did you know that everything that is going wrong in this game is the fault of a single person?

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Vinny.6924:

The worst things about this game are:

DR – It only effects the player not the bots. Bots farm all day and it doesn’t really matter what they get because they spent no time trying to earn it.

Gated Content – I have to wait weeks and months to get stuff thats brand new. Im completely hopeless with this system and cannot speed up the process by putting in more effort.

Ascended Gear – Not so much the fact they released a new tier but how its obtained is so bad. Whoever thought this up should be let go.

Other then that is a pretty solid game for being 6 months old. But they have to stop now with this month long grind each day to get gear. Its going to kitten a lot of people off and its a horrible system.

DR – the idea came from Smiter’s Boon
Gated Content – the idea also came from Smiter’s Boon
Ascended Gear – the idea definitely came from Smiter’s Boon

Did you know that everything that is going wrong in this game is the fault of a single person?

Where is this Smitner? Clearly this Boon fellow Smitner owns needs to be stopped now!

Shootsfoot.9276:

PiSquare.2904:

Games should find their niche, or create one, and not pander to the people playing games.

I have read this sentence at least a dozen times and it still makes me scratch my head.

With that i was trying to say that games should be like Eve online. Have a niche and stick to it, they dont pander to anyone. They are small i think around 400kish players. But they are not failing.

Not like GW 2, when as soon as there was an outrcry of no endgame, devs rushed content, as soon as there is another outcry, they rush pvp balance. Instead of doing their own thing and attracting the crowd that likes that thing. Altough thats hard with GW 2 as it does nothing particulary well besides maybe the combat feel.

kenshinakh.3672:

PiSquare.2904:

Orion i would apply for the job, if i knew i had the freedom to develop the game in such a way that gamers would like it.

I know what im entitled too, and im not here too complain. I did that months ago, i just want anwsers now. Im not playing, i just want to see where things are heading towards. Sadly most games are made with profit in mind. People sit down, think of a idea, and then ask themselves how do we make it so it sells most.

Instead of people sitting down, getting an idea, and executing it so well that it sells. As soon as you take a good idea, and start pandering to people so it would sell better, it wont be as good. Or at least as unique and original. Thats why you see all these mmos fail nowdays.

Games should find their niche, or create one, and not pander to the people playing games.

Go try developing games first before saying that games are only made with profit in mind… Video game developers put their heart into their creations, and they all work very hard. Have you heard about how people said the pay for a game developer is low for the amount of stress and time put it? They make games because it’s their passion.

But in the real world, you have to pace your gamers. You have limits such as time limitation, and the human body limitations. You can’t just spew out content that’s easy to do. You have to adjust content so that it takes players enough time to do before your next content patch comes out.

And Anet really do listen to player feedback. Pre-Nov 15, people complained about no end-game, and endgame gear being way to easy to obtain. The solution: a long term goal of slow progression over the year tied with content release.

I like GW2 more and more with each patch, even though there are content that takes longer to reach, I don’t really mind. I’m not in a rush to burn through all the content… Now the question is, are you? Time gates are a measure against preventing you from playing in a way that will burn you out. DR is similar too. It’s a mechanic that is meant to tell you “You need to rest”. Is it smart? Maybe. Some people don’t mind, and some people hate it. Personally, I don’t mind because I rarely play more than 3 hours a day, and why would I? I play the game for enjoyment, not for cramming.

You know what, i did try developing games, i did a few small games. And i put in a lot of time into them. And i was satisfied with them. I felt proud when i finished it. A lot of hard work was put into the game, and when i presented it to my friends i got some hars criticism. At first i was completely confused because i tought i made a kittening amazing thing. Then i sat down went trough the game i made again, with the criticism in mind. And guess what, most complaints were not baseless.

Sure there were some based on opinions like why did i make the main unit blue and not green. But that was besides the point. The problem most devs have is that they invest so much time into something, they think its good, or become overly protective of it. I have been there so i know how it feels on a small scale. I can only imagine how it feels on a grand scale tough.

PiSquare.2904:

You know what, i did try developing games, i did a few small games. And i put in a lot of time into them. And i was satisfied with them. I felt proud when i finished it. A lot of hard work was put into the game, and when i presented it to my friends i got some hars criticism. At first i was completely confused because i tought i made a kittening amazing thing. Then i sat down went trough the game i made again, with the criticism in mind. And guess what, most complaints were not baseless.

Sure there were some based on opinions like why did i make the main unit blue and not green. But that was besides the point. The problem most devs have is that they invest so much time into something, they think its good, or become overly protective of it. I have been there so i know how it feels on a small scale. I can only imagine how it feels on a grand scale tough.

The bigger your audience, the bigger the number of dissenters. You are part of that number of dissenters.

That is all.

Chuo.4238:

I’d say they’re doing what they think they need to do to make money. They’re trying to maximize people’s playtime, and provide incentives for them to buy gems. Most of their tactics are rather Pavlovian. But none of this is new in the MMO industry.

Clearly there were some big screwups somewhere in the developmental process of GW2. It took years to release, was overhauled several times, and still isn’t really complete. My guess is that they started with a game that was in the spirit of GW, and were forced to make changes by NCSoft to maximise profits. I wouldn’t be surprised if NCSoft told them to release it ASAP, too, in complete contradiction of the “when it’s ready” policy that ArenaNet kept for all those years.

So the short answer is: I think they chose to, or were forced to, change the game they wanted to make in order to maximize profits. From an artistic perspective, it’s a blatant sell-out. From a business perspective, it kind of makes sense. I’m sure there are some very disappointed devs, but I seriously doubt we’re going to here from them on that. It would likely cost someone their job to speak out.

So all we can do is guess. We’ll never know for sure. I think I did a pretty good job of applying Occam’s Razor to the evidence, but I could be wrong.

I do agree with you. Not to say that im pleased with the anwser but its as you said probably the only thing we might get. Isnt this a nice world we live in, where honesty is punished. And a dev telling the truth will lose its job.

“Isnt this a nice world we live in, where honesty is punished.”

What you are proposing isn’t honesty. Its selfish reckless disregard of peers at best. At worst its corporate sabotage.

PiSquare.2904:

I do agree with you. Not to say that im pleased with the anwser but its as you said probably the only thing we might get.

You could also look for seemingly coincidental pieces of content that may be interpreted in ways that would lead you to theorize that someone wants us to know about what’s going on behind the scenes of management. We experienced that with the LS patch, if you’re on the side of the believers, and it may happen again in the future.

Chuo.4238:

I’d say they’re doing what they think they need to do to make money. They’re trying to maximize people’s playtime, and provide incentives for them to buy gems. Most of their tactics are rather Pavlovian. But none of this is new in the MMO industry.

Clearly there were some big screwups somewhere in the developmental process of GW2. It took years to release, was overhauled several times, and still isn’t really complete. My guess is that they started with a game that was in the spirit of GW, and were forced to make changes by NCSoft to maximise profits. I wouldn’t be surprised if NCSoft told them to release it ASAP, too, in complete contradiction of the “when it’s ready” policy that ArenaNet kept for all those years.

So the short answer is: I think they chose to, or were forced to, change the game they wanted to make in order to maximize profits. From an artistic perspective, it’s a blatant sell-out. From a business perspective, it kind of makes sense. I’m sure there are some very disappointed devs, but I seriously doubt we’re going to here from them on that. It would likely cost someone their job to speak out.

So all we can do is guess. We’ll never know for sure. I think I did a pretty good job of applying Occam’s Razor to the evidence, but I could be wrong.

Beautifully put.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

“Isnt this a nice world we live in, where honesty is punished.”

What you are proposing isn’t honesty. Its selfish reckless disregard of peers at best. At worst its corporate sabotage.

Why is telling about what is going on reckless disregard of peers? Because those peers are doing something wrong?

If you have a den of thieves and one of them decides to come clean, and tell the truth, should he be flogged for telling on his peers, and sabotaging their operation? Im not sure, if its me, am i really this old fashioned. But i kinda live by the motto of don’t do things you would be ashamed of or regret doing.

i’d say the only good thing about this thread are the responses making the thread look stupid. man quite your crying and your ignorance, its boring.

the game is great.
the game just came out.
the game will advance far beyond this.
get good, enjoy it, or stop playing it.

PiSquare.2904:

Orion the Cursed.1206:

“Isnt this a nice world we live in, where honesty is punished.”

What you are proposing isn’t honesty. Its selfish reckless disregard of peers at best. At worst its corporate sabotage.

Why is telling about what is going on reckless disregard of peers? Because those peers are doing something wrong?

If you have a den of thieves and one of them decides to come clean, and tell the truth, should he be flogged for telling on his peers, and sabotaging their operation? Im not sure, if its me, am i really this old fashioned. But i kinda live by the motto of don’t do things you would be ashamed of or regret doing.

Are you saying Anet is a den of thieves? Why not call them an organized crime syndiket or drug cartel as well? You are not old fashioned, you are naive and selfish. I keep telling you developers don’t decide the course of the game, the management does but you insist on some pointless personal vendetta.

I will only answer this one last time because frankly, you dont deserve it.

If an employee starts a rumor (regardless true or false) it will effect the performance of the company. If the company has financial difficulties a lot of honest hardworking people will be forced to be laid off. These people the artists, coders, sales, janitors, customer suport, etc who have no say in the decisions made in the game.

You equate the people who work hard everyday while you sit on your kitten to bring you this game and many hours of enjoyment as criminals. You call decisions that you fail(and refuse) to understand dishonesty. You ask them to be ashamed and regret for what? Not answering to a nobody?

PS. i know i might get infracted for this post but i hope you see it anyways because not setting you right would be something i will be “ashamed of or regret”

Chuo.4238:

I’d say they’re doing what they think they need to do to make money. They’re trying to maximize people’s playtime, and provide incentives for them to buy gems. Most of their tactics are rather Pavlovian. But none of this is new in the MMO industry.

Clearly there were some big screwups somewhere in the developmental process of GW2. It took years to release, was overhauled several times, and still isn’t really complete. My guess is that they started with a game that was in the spirit of GW, and were forced to make changes by NCSoft to maximise profits. I wouldn’t be surprised if NCSoft told them to release it ASAP, too, in complete contradiction of the “when it’s ready” policy that ArenaNet kept for all those years.

So the short answer is: I think they chose to, or were forced to, change the game they wanted to make in order to maximize profits. From an artistic perspective, it’s a blatant sell-out. From a business perspective, it kind of makes sense. I’m sure there are some very disappointed devs, but I seriously doubt we’re going to here from them on that. It would likely cost someone their job to speak out.

So all we can do is guess. We’ll never know for sure. I think I did a pretty good job of applying Occam’s Razor to the evidence, but I could be wrong.

Wait i do not get it NCSoft was part of Anet or the owners of Anet (i am not sure witch) during GW1 so why are you so much more critical on NCSoft on GW2?

Any way beyond this point what game maker is not out to make money? Can you name some? And what games have they put out in the last year that was good? You guys are just destroying this game become Anet is doing the same thing that EVERYONE else is doing.

NCsoft is a big MMO company in Korea. Had sales of roughly $670 million last year. They bought ArenaNet in 2002, years before GW came out.