Guild Wars 2

What kittenes me off the most is people who haven’t spent a dime on the gem store calling veterans who have spent hundreds/thousands of dollars “entitled” and saying they shouldn’t complain because the game is free.

+1

People are being called entitled just for asking for 1 character slot so they can play the new profession from the expansion they are paying $50 dollars on without having to delete an old character or paying $10 more on the gem store.

But after being told that a game needs incovenient mechanics just for the sake of not being too convenient I just got tired of arguing.

There’s no way for us to know who has or hasn’t spent money in the gem store beyond personal admission, but yeah, I suspect there may be a bit of that going on.

None of that matters anyway. Whatever we did in the game so far, we already paid for and whether we paid a lot, or only for the original game, we don’t need to take that into consideration when we look at how we value what’s offered in the expansion.

Manasa Devi.7958:

None of that matters anyway. Whatever we did in the game so far, we already paid for and whether we paid a lot, or only for the original game, we don’t need to take that into consideration when we look at how we value what’s offered in the expansion.

Agreed.

Yeah a lot of people, throw the word entitled around. Most probably don’t know what the word means, and are using it as others have who also have no idea what it means. But that’s the internet for you.“Someone is saying something I agree with, I don’t know what that word is, but I’ll use it to death!”

Very good post OP. I find the overuse of the word “entitlement” originates from U.S. politics. It’s been the general buzz word for “evil” from one group in particular. So now if you don’t like, want, or believe what another likes, wants, or believes they mindlessly toss out “entitled” as a slur. The irony is that the greater quantity of a personality trait an individual has, the greater they perceive it in others too.

The entitlement meme will stop when people stop whining about how they are entitled to more than they are.

As a player, you are entitled to get exactly what you paid for. If you paid for the core game, you are entitled to the core game. If you paid for gems and bought things with those gems, you are entitled to the things that you bought with those gems. If you buy the HoT base kit at $50, you are entitled to the things listed in that base kit.

Nothing more.

If you are whining about how ANet has “betrayed” you or “owes” you anything, then that is entitlement, and if you don’t like being called out on that, then stop being that.

Zefiris.8297:

““I’m a veteran player, therefore I should get the expansion for free””

Well, that’s exactly the point of the vocal minority.

“I’m a veteran player, therefore I should get the character slot for free”

Pure entitlement.

It’s just not the case, regardless of your reddit circlejerk.

Yes, because paying $50 for the expansion and expecting to be able to play with the revenant is “entitlement”.

People don’t want a character slot for the sake of “give us free rewards!”. They want a character slot because they want to play what they paid for.

Nothing to be done about unfortunately, people have been drawing the entitlement card since day one. It just shows what kind of individual they are.

Ohoni.6057:

The entitlement meme will stop when people stop whining about how they are entitled to more than they are.

As a player, you are entitled to get exactly what you paid for. If you paid for the core game, you are entitled to the core game. If you paid for gems and bought things with those gems, you are entitled to the things that you bought with those gems. If you buy the HoT base kit at $50, you are entitled to the things listed in that base kit.

Nothing more.

If you are whining about how ANet has “betrayed” you or “owes” you anything, then that is entitlement, and if you don’t like being called out on that, then stop being that.

So you are happy.with one of the core selling points of HoT to be locked behind a pay wall if you buy the base game? And before you say, delete a character and roll a rev, that’s even worse. As all the time/possibly money you spent on it is just thrown away. This is a non issue to me as I have a slot just holding a name for my rev. As I didn’t like the class that the slot was taking up and had played probably an hour at most of it. So I’m fine with deleting it to roll a rev, but that should not be the case. If it’s a core selling point everyone who buys the Xpac should be able to roll a rev regardless of how much they pay. Not pay more or lose something they have spent time/money on just to play a core part of the Xpac.

Ohoni.6057:

The entitlement meme will stop when people stop whining about how they are entitled to more than they are.

As a player, you are entitled to get exactly what you paid for. If you paid for the core game, you are entitled to the core game. If you paid for gems and bought things with those gems, you are entitled to the things that you bought with those gems. If you buy the HoT base kit at $50, you are entitled to the things listed in that base kit.

Nothing more.

If you are whining about how ANet has “betrayed” you or “owes” you anything, then that is entitlement, and if you don’t like being called out on that, then stop being that.

Funny how a complaint always equates to whining as long as you are not part of the disatisfied party yourself. Another problem on this forum.

that´s like your opinion, man…

not entitlement: It would be nice if you threw in a character slot
entitlement: I deserve an additional character slot because I “supported” the game.

I agree that the extra character slot should have been included in the 50$ version, but everything else is just pure whining and entitlement.

So you are happy.with one of the core selling points of HoT to be locked behind a pay wall if you buy the base game?

Nothing’s locked behind a pay wall. If you buy HoT you can roll up a Revenant day one without making any other purchase, you’d just have to delete an existing character. The same is true if you want to make one of the advanced classes and don’t yet own a character of that class. Do I think it’d be nice of them to give us a free character slot? Sure, free things are always nice. Do I think that they owe it to us or are monsters for not providing it? Of course not. Doesn’t really impact me one way or the other, the version I bought already came with a character slot, and a bunch of gems to buy more if I want. I was already strongly considering making two Revenants anyways, since their play style is so broken up into Legends and you seem to be able to make two or more completely distinct builds for them.

Besides, if you really don’t want to pay another dime to support the game, just buy the slot using gold. It would currently run around 300g or so I think.

Funny how a complaint always equates to whining as long as you are not part of the disatisfied party yourself. Another problem on this forum.

It’s really more about tone than content. If you’re saying in a measured way that you would prefer things to be a different way, but that you understand their side in things as well, then that is not whining. If, on the other hand, you frame it in terms of something that they should do, that they owe you, that they are Wrong for not doing and that they must fix to get Right, then yes, that is whining, and those engaging in it deserve mockery.

This is 2015, after years of dumbed down worldwide public education.

Entitlement IS paying for 2 products and getting 1 AND NOT paying for 1 product and getting 2.

Oh and read my signature.

I’m a veteran player, and i saved money by switching my car insurance to Geico.

Ohoni.6057:

So you are happy.with one of the core selling points of HoT to be locked behind a pay wall if you buy the base game?

Nothing’s locked behind a pay wall. If you buy HoT you can roll up a Revenant day one without making any other purchase, you’d just have to delete an existing character. The same is true if you want to make one of the advanced classes and don’t yet own a character of that class. Do I think it’d be nice of them to give us a free character slot? Sure, free things are always nice. Do I think that they owe it to us or are monsters for not providing it? Of course not. Doesn’t really impact me one way or the other, the version I bought already came with a character slot, and a bunch of gems to buy more if I want. I was already strongly considering making two Revenants anyways, since their play style is so broken up into Legends and you seem to be able to make two or more completely distinct builds for them.

Besides, if you really don’t want to pay another dime to support the game, just buy the slot using gold. It would currently run around 300g or so I think.

Funny how a complaint always equates to whining as long as you are not part of the disatisfied party yourself. Another problem on this forum.

It’s really more about tone than content. If you’re saying in a measured way that you would prefer things to be a different way, but that you understand their side in things as well, then that is not whining. If, on the other hand, you frame it in terms of something that they should do, that they owe you, that they are Wrong for not doing and that they must fix to get Right, then yes, that is whining, and those engaging in it deserve mockery.

I see you are just picking what you liked out of my post. I have no problem deleting a character to roll a rev as I have one just holding the name I wanted to call my rev, as I didn’t like engineers. One of the selling points of HoT is the rev. So if you buy the base edition and have filled out your 5 slots you got with the base game, you have a pay wall that stops you enjoying 100% of what you payed for. Its about getting what you payed for. In the end time is money as they say. So deleting a character it taking you time away, having to pay with time spent instead of money, losing everything you had on that character. How is that fair? All this is doing I turning kitten in to a possible $60 as I would think most if not all people want to roll a rev and keep there current characters that may or may not be 3 years old. I really don’t see how “just delete a character” is a valid solution.

I’m not saying ANet must give everyone a “free” character slot with HoT, I believe it should have come with one.

The main reason people seem to be using this word so much is they feel like it is a terrific insult for this subject. That’s my conclusion since the word is usually being used in an incorrect way. “You are entitled” is just a fancier way to say “You are stupid.” Means the same thing more or less in this instance.

Celtic Lady.3729:

The main reason people seem to be using this word so much is they feel like it is a terrific insult for this subject. That’s my conclusion since the word is usually being used in an incorrect way. “You are entitled” is just a fancier way to say “You are stupid.” Means the same thing more or less in this instance.

I wouldn’t be so quick to judge the people using the word. Some might be ignorant of its meaning, or they probably thought it spiced up their sentences a bit. Food for thought, not saying you’re wrong.

OT: Those throwing the word around should hold those trigger fingers just as everyone else should, I agree. But if you’ve been around the internet and gaming for anything longer than a few months you’ll know that it’ll all die down in a few days/weeks. Memes get old fast, and while they hold nostalgia for some of us (Nyan Cat, Chuck Testa, etc.) they quickly lose relevance with the current generation of internet users.

I see you are just picking what you liked out of my post. I have no problem deleting a character to roll a rev as I have one just holding the name I wanted to call my rev, as I didn’t like engineers. One of the selling points of HoT is the rev. So if you buy the base edition and have filled out your 5 slots you got with the base game, you have a pay wall that stops you enjoying 100% of what you payed for.

Sure, but the same is true of buying the base GW2, as there were eight classes but only five character slots. you couldn’t play them all without either buying additional slots or deleting characters.

If you want to make a Revenant without paying another dime, then buy the slot with gold or delete a character. If you want to play the Revenant without deleting a character, then buy an additional character slot. That is the deal, they don’t owe you anything better than that, all they owe is what they offered, that you have the OPTION of filling any empty character slots you may have with Revenants.

I’m not saying ANet must give everyone a “free” character slot with HoT, I believe it should have come with one.

You realize that’s the same thing, right? “I’m not saying they have to give me something for free, I’m just saying they should give it to me, and I shouldn’t have to pay for it.”

I see the entire conversation as nothing more or less bargaining. Which there is nothing wrong with at all. In fact, it should be expected.

Ohoni.6057:

I see you are just picking what you liked out of my post. I have no problem deleting a character to roll a rev as I have one just holding the name I wanted to call my rev, as I didn’t like engineers. One of the selling points of HoT is the rev. So if you buy the base edition and have filled out your 5 slots you got with the base game, you have a pay wall that stops you enjoying 100% of what you payed for.

Sure, but the same is true of buying the base GW2, as there were eight classes but only five character slots. you couldn’t play them all without either buying additional slots or deleting characters.

If you want to make a Revenant without paying another dime, then buy the slot with gold or delete a character. If you want to play the Revenant without deleting a character, then buy an additional character slot. That is the deal, they don’t owe you anything better than that, all they owe is what they offered, that you have the OPTION of filling any empty character slots you may have with Revenants.

I’m not saying ANet must give everyone a “free” character slot with HoT, I believe it should have come with one.

You realize that’s the same thing, right? “I’m not saying they have to give me something for free, I’m just saying they should give it to me, and I shouldn’t have to pay for it.”

I think there’s a major disconnect on that last sentence. You are, in fact, not both saying the same thing. The word “free” is a key indicator here. There’s nothing free about it when we’re talking $50+. What he said would have more correctly, as some others in the community have said, been interpreted as something more like “the base value of the package without a slot probably should have been closer to $40 or $45. At $50 it should include a character slot figured into the price”. Again, value statement.

DeWolfe.2174:

I see the entire conversation as nothing more or less bargaining. Which there is nothing wrong with at all. In fact, it should be expected.

Yes. Exactly. What I was hoping by starting this thread is that more people could come to see it that way instead of bandying about a tired and completely misused meme that’s been floating around here.

Some people, sadly, will just never get it.

Ohoni.6057:

Sure, but the same is true of buying the base GW2, as there were eight classes but only five character slots. you couldn’t play them all without either buying additional slots or deleting characters.

If you want to make a Revenant without paying another dime, then buy the slot with gold or delete a character. If you want to play the Revenant without deleting a character, then buy an additional character slot. That is the deal, they don’t owe you anything better than that, all they owe is what they offered, that you have the OPTION of filling any empty character slots you may have with Revenants.

You realize that’s the same thing, right? “I’m not saying they have to give me something for free, I’m just saying they should give it to me, and I shouldn’t have to pay for it.”

It actually isn’t the same, the base game was never sold on the premise of playing 8 different classes, only that it had 8 different classes to pick from.
The Revenant is being market as a core part of HoT for which we must either delete a character, which is honestly one of the most stupid suggestions i’ve heard in a while (yea let’s forget about all the time and money you spent on it, it clearly doesn’t matter at all), or pay $10 more, effectively making the expansion value to be $60 and that’s just overpriced.
It’s a clear cash grab that threats us customers as nothing more then money bags, so why the kitten should we not question what we are getting for the money we are being asked to spend?

Agree 100% with a lot of things said in this thread.

Entitlement is one of they most overused words in the last few years.

I think there’s a major disconnect on that last sentence. You are, in fact, not both saying the same thing. The word “free” is a key indicator here. There’s nothing free about it when we’re talking $50+.

Of course there is, If you are talking about receiving anything in addition to what ANet was offering for $50. If a burger shop offers a combo deal of a burger, fries, and a drink for $4, and you demand that for no additional price they also throw in a pie, you ARE asking to get something for free, even if you are willing to make a purchase to get there.

What he said would have more correctly, as some others in the community have said, been interpreted as something more like “the base value of the package without a slot probably should have been closer to $40 or $45. At $50 it should include a character slot figured into the price”. Again, value statement.

That’s entirely subjective though. If ANet thought that the base value of their package was $40-45, then that’s what they would have charged for it. They charged $50, so the base value IS $50. Now you have the option of paying that price or not, honestly I cannot for the life of me understand actually getting upset about the difference between $40 and $50 in a product with a multi-year life cycle.

I bought a Surface tablet a few years back. It was a Surface 1, and I paid $900 for it. A month or so later they announced the Surface 2, which was a significant improvement for only $100 more. I was pretty annoyed at that, but at the same time I didn’t feel that Microsoft owed me anything, I got what I paid for when I paid for it, and that was over a lot more money and over a much shorter frame of time than someone who bought GW2 in 2012 complaining in 2015 over a $10 disagreement on pricing.

It actually isn’t the same, the base game was never sold on the premise of playing 8 different classes, only that it had 8 different classes to pick from.

And HoT isn’t sold on the premise that you will definitely have a Revenant, only that it’s a class that will become available to you.

Likewise, if you only had the five starter slots and never purchased more, then even if HoT gave you a sixth, that would still only be six slots for now nine possible classes. Well they are also adding the eight elite specializations to the classes. This is also a “core feature” of HoT, and yet if you have not bought extra character slots, you will be missing out on at least three of these specializations if you don’t delete some characters at some point.

They don’t owe it to you to be able to play all nine total elite specializations just because you bought HoT, they only owe it to you that these specs are available as OPTIONS, depending on how you use the character slots available, or buy additional ones. Just the same, they do not owe you an effortless choice on making a Revenant, they only owe you the option of filling any empty slots you may have with one.

Also, deleting a character is not “stupid” for everyone. It really depends on how much time you’ve spent on each. I mean, I have ten characters at the moment, nine of them at level 80, so for me, deleting one to make room would be a big deal, and from your tone, I’m assuming you have at least five high level characters, so deleting one would be a big deal for you as well. Other players though might only have 1-2 serious characters, and actually leave slots empty, or leave them for unused mules or key runners. Deleting a character to make a Revenant might not be a big deal for them.

And of course you don’t have to delete any characters. You can always buy a new slot with gold, it currently runs around 300g for a slot, which most players with five maxed out 80s could probably manage with a little effort. and if that’s not an option for you, you can always buy a new character slot with cash, $10 US, which is about an hour and fifteen minutes’ work at the national minimum wage. You have options, some completely free, some that take effort, some that cost money, but you have plenty of options. They do not owe you a completely effortless option unless they choose to provide one.

And for the record, $60 would not be overpriced for the core expansion either. It is comparable to other retail games that will provide FAR less valuable play time than HoT will. The Order 1886 cost $60 retail, and it provided maybe ten hours of play time, if you read and listened to everything, five if you blitzed through it, and most of that time was cutscenes. $60 would be a fair price, maybe not the price you’d want to spend, but not at all unreasonable considering the hundreds of hours I’ll be likely to spend playing GW2 between when HoT launches and when the next expansion drops.

Ohoni.6057:

Do I think it’d be nice of them to give us a free character slot? Sure, free things are always nice.

If you are paying $50 to play with a revenant, then the character slot required to play the revenant is not a “free thing”. It’s a required mechanism for you to be able to use the very class you just paid for.

Also, having 1+ choices to pick a class and having 0 choices are not the same thing.

If you are paying $50 to play with a revenant, then the character slot required to play the revenant is not a “free thing”. It’s a required mechanism for you to be able to use the very class you just paid for.

No, it is not.

You can instead delete a character to make room, buy an additional slot with gems, or buy an additional slot with gold. Those are your options.

They are not required to free up a slot for you, only to allow you the option of putting a Revenant into any free slot that you might have available. If you’re buying the expansion ONLY to play as a Revenant, then one of those options should be suitable, and if none of them are, then don’t buy HoT.

Also, having to choice 1+ choices to pick a class and having 0 choices are not the same thing.

I have no idea how to parse this sentence.

I give up, as long as you think deleting a character in which u may have spent time and/or money as an acceptable option there is nothing i can say that will make you understand what is so stupidly wrong about marketing a expansion with a new class and not making it fully available to all of your customers.

Ohoni.6057:

You can instead delete a character to make room, buy an additional slot with gems, or buy an additional slot with gold. Those are your options.

All of them which involve an additional cost beyond the original $50. Thanks for helping me prove that paying $50 won’t be enough.

then don’t buy HoT.

Exactly. And that’s why we are complaining about it.

I am excited for HoT, I want to buy HoT, and I will buy HoT once Anet’s marketing team decides to offer a deal where I can get what I paid for without any additional, hidden cost.

I have no idea how to parse this sentence.

It’s simple. When you buy the original game, you have the choice to pick the professions you want the most. Yes, you need to pay more if you want all of them, but no one of them is individually gated by an additional cost. Thus, you can pick your 1-5 most favourite classes, and play with them right away. In contrast, any veteran player who is very interested in the revenant profession must either pay an additional cost or not play with it at all, even though they have paid for the expansion to be able to play with it.

So, you argument about the original game only offering 5 slots for 8 professions is irrelevant, because it is a very different situation. Likewise, your argument about elite specs is equally irrelevant, because they are an expansion of the professions you already play with, so you’ll still get what you paid for. You’ll be able to unlock them immediately with hero points once HoT is out. No additional cost and no sacrifice is required.

Best to forget about the people calling us all whiners. These are the people who ruin it for the rest of us and not just in a game either.

I’m sure these people never moan when utility bills go up in price or fuel or taxes are raised.

He’ll, they probably even write to those different organisations just to thank them.

Call me a rebel, but I like to think it’s a good thing to question stuff and to hold companies accountable. I must be old fashioned lol.

Look before you leap springs to mind here. And most of us have looked at the HoT package and haven’t leapt yet.

I give up, as long as you think deleting a character in which u may have spent time and/or money as an acceptable option there is nothing i can say that will make you understand what is so stupidly wrong about marketing a expansion with a new class and not making it fully available to all of your customers.

But it IS fully available to all their customers. They can put it in ANY empty character slot that they have, however they got that empty slot.

All of them which involve an additional cost beyond the original $50. Thanks for helping me prove that $50 is not enough.

Deleting a character costs nothing, and buying a slot with gold only costs gold. You don’t have to spend additional dollars unless that is the best option for you.

Exactly. And that’s why we are complaining about it.

No, you’re complaining about it because you want to buy HoT, you’d just like a better deal for it than they’re offering. If you truly accepted that HoT just wasn’t for you then you’d quietly go away and leave everyone else in peace.

I am excited for HoT, I want to buy HoT, and I will buy HoT once Anet’s marketing team decides to offer a deal where I can get what I paid for without any additional, hidden costs.

But you will get what you paid for without any additional costs, hidden or otherwise. It’s just that what you paid for (in this case the ability to roll a Revenant into any freed character slot) is not what you would like to have paid for (such as getting a bonus character slot to put that Revenant in).

It’s simple. When you buy the original game, you have the choice to pick the professions you want the most. Yes, you need to pay more if you want all of them, but no one of them is individually gated by an additional cost. Thus, you can pick your 1-3 most favourite classes, and play with them right away. In contrast, any veteran player who is very interested in the revenant profession must either pay an additional cost or not play with it at all, even though they have paid the expansion to be able to play with it.

No, each veteran player still has at least five available slots that they can put a Revenant in, they just have to decide which of the nine available classes they value most, rather than just which of the eight available classes they want most. Or maybe they want to add a slot, which they can do with cash or gold. Up to them.

Similarly, what about a player who, say, had no interest in the vanilla Guardian, but really loves the idea of the Dragon Hunter? He had no guardian among his initial five, but now wants a Dragon Hunter, should he get a free slot for that as well?

You’ll be able to unlock them immediately with hero points once HoT is out. No additional cost and no sacrifice are required.

Unless the base class required is not one that you already have active. The game is “promising” nine new elite classes, by your standards they would have to offer every player at least nine total character slots so that they could play all of them without having to make any hard choices.

I am mixed on my feelings. Its a game, not a vital utility like power or gas, so its not like we can’t just “love without” and they can set the price how they please. What bothers me is players getting both games for the price of one. When I bought every expansion in GW1, they didn’t come with Prophecies bundled in now did they? They were just fine as stand-alone. When we bought EotN the only expansion, we didn’t get Prophecies either. So my question is, why do it this way? The only fair thing would be to have a check to see if the core game is installed and then offer something like 1000 gems as a compensation package for those who already own some part of what they are buying (which is more than fair) and then players can use this to get a character expansion, new bank tab, etc.

I think the phrase “value statements” is giving the word “entitlement” a serious run for its money.

I am mixed on my feelings. Its a game, not a vital utility like power or gas, so its not like we can’t just “love without” and they can set the price how they please. What bothers me is players getting both games for the price of one. When I bought every expansion in GW1, they didn’t come with Prophecies bundled in now did they? They were just fine as stand-alone. When we bought EotN the only expansion, we didn’t get Prophecies either. So my question is, why do it this way? The only fair thing would be to have a check to see if the core game is installed and then offer something like 1000 gems as a compensation package for those who already own some part of what they are buying (which is more than fair) and then players can use this to get a character expansion, new bank tab, etc.

People who Pre-order Fallout 4 get Fallout 3 for free. People who already own Fallout 3 get nothing. It happens, deal.

Deleting a character costs nothing, and buying a slot with gold only costs gold. You don’t have to spend additional dollars unless that is the best option for you.

Sacrificing a character is a cost by itself. Farming for weeks and stopping whatever else you want to do is a cost by itself. All options require an additional cost.

But it IS fully available to all their customers. They can put it in ANY empty character slot that they have, however they got that empty slot.

But that empty slot didn’t come for free, so you’re basically contradicting yourself.

If you truly accepted that HoT just wasn’t for you then you’d quietly go away and leave everyone else in peace.

So HoT isn’t for me because I want to play with the revenant? Your attempt to defend Anet’s marketing team decisions is getting desperate.

Ohoni.6057:

I am mixed on my feelings. Its a game, not a vital utility like power or gas, so its not like we can’t just “love without” and they can set the price how they please. What bothers me is players getting both games for the price of one. When I bought every expansion in GW1, they didn’t come with Prophecies bundled in now did they? They were just fine as stand-alone. When we bought EotN the only expansion, we didn’t get Prophecies either. So my question is, why do it this way? The only fair thing would be to have a check to see if the core game is installed and then offer something like 1000 gems as a compensation package for those who already own some part of what they are buying (which is more than fair) and then players can use this to get a character expansion, new bank tab, etc.

People who Pre-order Fallout 4 get Fallout 3 for free. People who already own Fallout 3 get nothing. It happens, deal.

Please provide a quote showing this, as I haven’t seen it. If the makers of another game do it, this isn’t proof that players appreciate that kind of marketing strategy. New players always will, older players will correctly feel they lost value on their game. If the 50 price tag is because you are buying both games(say 10 for core, 40 for expansion) then the game developers should sell an expansion only version for 40. Fair deal. Players make a community, so who are you pleasing as the developer? Yourself or the customer whose feedback you require?

The Entitlement Metagame

Calling players “entitled” is what all the cool kids are doing now, because it’s cool. Suggesting they stop is uncool, because it offends their sense of entitlement.

However, there is a silver lining to this dismal state of affairs. What is it, you ask?

The Entitlement Drinking Game!™

Every time you see the word “entitlement” in the GW2 official forums, take a drink.

Be sure to have plenty of your favorite beverages on hand, and if they happen to include alcohol, hide your car keys and make arrangements in advance for the liver transplant you’ll inevitably need after just a few short days.

Don’t worry, though. It’s what all the cool adults are doing.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Deleting a character costs nothing, and buying a slot with gold only costs gold. You don’t have to spend additional dollars unless that is the best option for you.

Sacrificing a character is a cost by itself. Farming for weeks and stopping whatever else you want to do is a cost by itself. All options require an additional cost.

But it IS fully available to all their customers. They can put it in ANY empty character slot that they have, however they got that empty slot.

But that empty slot didn’t come for free, so you’re basically contradicting yourself.

If you truly accepted that HoT just wasn’t for you then you’d quietly go away and leave everyone else in peace.

So HoT isn’t for me because I want to play with the revenant? Your attempt to defend Anet’s marketing team decisions is getting desperate.

In the first place, it is most likely NCSoft’s marketing team, not Anet’s.
And I assume that you screamed bloody murder when the original game was offered up with far less character slots then there were characters.

Majic.4801:

The Entitlement Metagame

Calling players “entitled” is what all the cool kids are doing now, because it’s cool. Suggesting they stop is uncool, because it offends their sense of entitlement.

However, there is a silver lining to this dismal state of affairs. What is it, you ask?

The Entitlement Drinking Game!™

Every time you see the word “entitlement” in the GW2 official forums, take a drink.

Be sure to have plenty of your favorite beverages on hand, and if they happen to include alcohol, hide your car keys and make arrangements in advance for the liver transplant you’ll inevitably need after just a few short days.

Don’t worry, though. It’s what all the cool adults are doing.

LOL!
I’ve got two bottles of whiskey and 60 bottles of homebrew beer. You’re on!

Majic.4801:

The Entitlement Metagame

Calling players “entitled” is what all the cool kids are doing now, because it’s cool. Suggesting they stop is uncool, because it offends their sense of entitlement.

However, there is a silver lining to this dismal state of affairs. What is it, you ask?

The Entitlement Drinking Game!™

Every time you see the word “entitlement” in the GW2 official forums, take a drink.

Be sure to have plenty of your favorite beverages on hand, and if they happen to include alcohol, hide your car keys and make arrangements in advance for the liver transplant you’ll inevitably need after just a few short days.

Don’t worry, though. It’s what all the cool adults are doing.

Be sure you add ‘value statements’ to your game……then you’ll probably end up with some sort of alcohol toxicity, as well.

Will you guys ever understand that the base game giving 5 slots for 8 classes has nothing to do with the revenant problem? Pick and Play from 8 available classes and Play as the revenant are different things. Got It? No?

Here i’ll put it as simple as i can:

You buy the core game, you get your 5 slots , as time goes by you eventually fills out the 5 slots with your favorite characters, you deck them out with gem store hairstyles and colors, different equipments and such.
Then a new class gets added on a expansion, and the only way for you to play that content is to delete one your characters, in which you have time and most likely real money invested into or pay up extra money to unlock an additional slot, even though you have already payed for the expansion itself.
How would you guys felt if they took whatever they have as “challenging content” and put behind a 800 gems paywall? Would you still feel fine over it?

Please provide a quote showing this, as I haven’t seen it. If the makers of another game do it, this isn’t proof that players appreciate that kind of marketing strategy.

I’m not putting up links to other games, but you can Google it, they announced it was part of the backwards compatibility deal for XBone.

The fact is, once a game has been out for a year or more, the value typically drops to “junk” status, even if it was a really good game (not counting physical copies of hard to find vintage games, of course). They go for Steam sales at less than 10% their original MSRP, they get bundled into package deals or freebies, that’s just the way of the markets. GW2 is often on sale for $10, and I believe the only reason it doesn’t drop even lower is not because they really mind giving it away to genuine potential customers, but rather they want some minimal financial investment for potential scammers. If people are willing to pay $50 for HoT, they’ve spent at least $50, so it’s no skin off ANet’s nose to give them core GW2 as well.

If the 50 price tag is because you are buying both games(say 10 for core, 40 for expansion) then the game developers should sell an expansion only version for 40.

No. The $50 price tag is for HoT. It was ALWAYS the price tag for HoT. They are also throwing in core Gw2 for free. It makes up exactly 0% of the price of HoT, not 20% as you assert it should, 0%. If they remove it, it’s still $50, because that is the price of HoT, not the price of HoT+GW2, just the price of HoT is $50.

Should I repeat that or has it sunk in yet?

Samhaim.8956:

Will you guys ever understand that the base game giving 5 slots for 8 classes has nothing to do with the revenant problem? Pick and Play from 8 available classes and Play as the revenant are different things. Got It? No?

Here i’ll put it as simple as i can:

You buy the core game, you get your 5 slots , as time goes by you eventually fills out the 5 slots with your favorite characters, you deck them out with gem store hairstyles and colors, different equipments and such.
Then a new class gets added on a expansion, and the only way for you to play that content is to delete one your characters, in which you have time and most likely real money invested into or pay up extra money to unlock an additional slot, even though you have already payed for the expansion itself.
How would you guys felt if they took whatever they have as “challenging content” and put behind a 800 gems paywall? Would you still feel fine over it?

That very same argument could be made for the original game. They put 3 characters (challenging content as I haven’t played those classes)that you did not have behind an 800 gem paywall for each one.

“How would you guys felt if they took whatever they have as “challenging content” and put behind a 800 gems paywall? Would you still feel fine over it?"

I have already been there and done that for 3 of my characters……so no, I have no problem with them doing that for the revenant.

Sure, it would have been a neat bonus for the core expansion, but I am most certainly not going to get my panties all in a wad over it.

You need to come up with a better argument that actually makes sense, and then drop the condescending attitude when people disagree with it.

Yeah people love to throw that word around without even knowing what it means. It just devalues their argument. Seems to be those with a certain worldview and preconceived notions that like using it too.

It seems like most people just wanted a character slot included with the expansion so they could play the new class.

A bit of research might have solved this problem before the package pricing was made available.

Of course the possibility would still exist that many would still complain about the pricing of those packages regardless of a character slot included with the base expansion.

I don’t think it is unreasonable for the players to want a free character slot included in the base package. A character slot is not something physical that needs to be manufactured. It would have been a simple good will gesture for everyone, Veteran players and new players to enjoy, with only one side completely understanding the value of that gesture right now.

Zanshin.5379:

What kittenes me off the most is people who haven’t spent a dime on the gem store calling veterans who have spent hundreds/thousands of dollars “entitled” and saying they shouldn’t complain because the game is free.

Exactly this. I’ve spent more money on this game than 3 years subscription to WoW at the highest possible rate and all of the expansions ever released for the game at full retail price, because I think the game we got at release was good enough to warrant those purchases, and what I got in exchange for the gems was also worth the money spent.

Yet from what I’ve seen so far in HoT, I do not think $50 is a reasonable price. Not to mention the additional $10 needed to even play the new class, one of the features of the expansion.

The need for a character slot is different from releasing the game with fewer slots than classes. This meant a player on a budget would have to try and then decide to keep their characters by what was most fun to play and what they liked, maintaining at least one free spot as testing. They knew all of the class info and how the classes played before spending an immense amount of time maintaining that character.

With the revenent release locked behind HoT and without an extra character slot, there is no definitive way to even experiment if you like the class without either sacrificing an established character and all of its progress, which is rather stupid, or having content locked behind a paywall be locked behind another paywall, which at $50/$10, is a lot of money just for what is basically a trial.

I’m not entitled to anything being released with HoT because I’m a “veteran.” I am entitled to getting my money’s worth as a consumer by the company selling me their product, just as much as I’m entitled having the option stop giving them my business altogether (and thus getting nothing in return) if I do not think I am getting reasonable value for the product I’m buying.

From what we know about HoT so far, I do not deem this expansion as providing me reasonable value, and as such, without more information on further expansion content, I will not purchase it.

I’d gladly spend more money on GW2. I want to support GW2, because so far the experience has been worthwhile. That said, ANet’s good decisions they’ve made in the past only cover the content they released in the past. If they want me to continue being their customer, I expect them to maintain said business model. I’m fine with spending money on the game. The problem is I don’t want to waste my money on it.

Teon.5168:

That very same argument could be made for the original game. They put 3 characters (challenging content as I haven’t played those classes)that you did not have behind an 800 gem paywall for each one.

“How would you guys felt if they took whatever they have as “challenging content” and put behind a 800 gems paywall? Would you still feel fine over it?"

I have already been there and done that for 3 of my characters……so no, I have no problem with them doing that for the revenant.

Sure, it would have been a neat bonus for the core expansion, but I am most certainly not going to get my panties all in a wad over it.

You need to come up with a better argument that actually makes sense, and then drop the condescending attitude when people disagree with it.

No, the same argument cannot be made for the base game, and you still haven’t understood my point, you were given 5 slots, but you could effectively try out every single class in the game before making any substantial investment in said character. can you do that with the revenant? no you cannot.
Had they released 2 new classes with the expac, would i be asking for 2 char slot? NO. Because i can try out both classes with 1 slot and pick which one i like best. I Cannot do that without a character slot without deleting progress or paying more money, Got It?

Its hard not to be condescending when people are seriously suggesting character deletion as a valid argument and completely missing the point i’ve been making for a while now.

edit: +1 to what DeceiverX said.