Guild Wars 2

I have been wondering about it for a while, and I have seen some posts around about but all of them were strangely not that much interested or kept giving an eye for it by the users. We all know this pvp called site that sells gold and legionary weapons but, I always wondered, what Arena Net is doing about it?

My main concern is, is it possible legally for ANet to take down this site? I believe it is. This black market seller is able to break the game code and sell what is said to sell for players, even if the prices are ridiculously overpriced for something which is virtual. This is obviously cyber crime and invasion.

But… i reported twice or three times user who have sent me messages advertising this site and nothing seem to be happening. ANet has an official thread to inform about botting but this is completely other matter. Why aren’t we being informed about it? Is something being done?

Everybody knows how hard it is to craft a legionary but in the last 3 months i have seen quite a lot of them around, strangely, they started to become COMMON. I don’t remeber how many times i have seen a Twilight wandering around and I’m pretty sure how there are so many of them around….

But what specially is a danger about this site is the gold selling, this can affect so much the economy of the game as botting farms. The site is from China and and if you research their address is like… phantom, leads to a Nikon store in Changsha, Hunan. Would be nice some official statement about this site and why I keep receiving their ads in-game after many reports, am I wrong?

There is nothing technically illegal about gold sellers/botters.

Can they ban them from playing the game? Of course. But they can’t pursue any legal means to shut them down.

It’s a different story with private servers.

how people get the weapons or gold they are buying? the seller must have a way to break in the game and give you a copy or generate currency in your account, that for me is hacking of one company – coz they have a commercial representation – in the server of another.

vladracul.6798:

how people get the weapons or gold they are buying? the seller must have a way to break in the game and give you a copy or generate currency in your account, that for me is hacking of one company – coz they have a commercial representation – in the server of another.

They farm up all of that stuff. Hence, bots.

Edit: Oh you mean how do they get those items. Well, the mailbox.

Vol.5241:

There is nothing technically illegal about gold sellers/botters.

Can they ban them from playing the game? Of course. But they can’t pursue any legal means to shut them down.

It’s a different story with private servers.

Actually both cases (gold/servers) are about the same in the eyes of the law, one of them takes people away from their product and revenue stream and the other only from the revenue stream.

Gold buying indicates the player has some money (and ought to RMT via gemstore) so banning the account is unlikely to be a loss of actual player – anyone “keen” enough to blow cash and risk banning will just buy a new serial.

Private servers are a whole different kettle of fish – but one of the main concerns of the game makers is that they are usually unstable, hacked, crap experiences which impacts on the image of their game (as well as other issues).

But to answer the OP question – the site is probably hosted by a less ethical mob who are ignoring takedown requests, and Google out some info on unauthorised RMT in games – hacked accounts and botting generall provide most the resources, not server hacking.

vladracul.6798:

that for me is hacking of one company – coz they have a commercial representation – in the server of another.

That for me needs clarification, not sure what you are specifically trying to say – however that is not “hacking”…

ANet stated the bots are there for this? I have my “conspiracy” theories trying to rationalize it, because in GW1 most of bots were player hackers made codes, mostly about competition between guilds. The game code is quite is easy to be broken in my opinion and why would they bother to create bots to farm gold and then some human work craft the legionary for example? Being so easy for any skilled hacker to create a bot i think is much easier to gain access to unlock servers in ANet. We are all basically able to access all weapons in the game, but they are locked in different servers. Once you get the right keys to unlock that server – aka, making the recipe in the MyF, your client get access to that weapon. I think is easier in my opinion for the black market to just break those keys than insert an army of bots and later somebody have to manually craft the weapons. If you see the store of the site there are practically all legendaries there. I have been following their evolution in the site and they dont seem to be having “recession times”, and that is what supposedly should be happening since ANet stated they closed almost 2000 accounts already. And no effect on the site sellings?
But anyway, is just my theory. People see bots with oriental names and they jump to conclusions, but Anet never said what they are for real doing there so … (or if they said, i missed)

ANet stated the bots are there for this? I have my “conspiracy” theories trying to rationalize it, because in GW1 most of bots were player hackers made codes, mostly about competition between guilds. The game code is quite is easy to be broken in my opinion

Which should be weighted based on questions already asked in this case (sorry to say), and is innacurate and out of date at ABSOLUTE best mate.

and why would they bother to create bots to farm gold and then some human work craft the legionary for example?

Huh? Bots loot precursors too, all sorts of stuff – what are you asking here – if bots craft things?

Being so easy for any skilled hacker to create a bot i think is much easier to gain access to unlock servers in ANet.

Trust me when I say anyone with the skills and inclination to pop ANet game servers is probably also bright enough to go after a higher pay-off target – as it is clear you are not familiar with the tech/geek side of this.

We are all basically able to access all weapons in the game, but they are locked in different servers. Once you get the right keys to unlock that server – aka, making the recipe in the MyF, your client get access to that weapon. I think is easier in my opinion for the black market to just break those keys than insert an army of bots and later somebody have to manually craft the weapons. If you see the store of the site there are practically all legendaries there. I have been following their evolution in the site and they dont seem to be having “recession times”, and that is what supposedly should be happening since ANet stated they closed almost 2000 accounts already. And no effect on the site sellings?

I really think some more independant research would do you well at this stage…. keys to the kingdom huh…

New accounts have made, they didn’t address demand (War on Gold Selling lol), demand is lazy entitled players who can’t hack a long term investment and who are too cheap to pay Anet for their gold.

But anyway, is just my theory. People see bots with oriental names and they jump to conclusions, but Anet never said what they are for real doing there so … (or if they said, i missed)

Most people only spot “player bots” because they stand out as bots, and conspiracy based on imaginary keys and a lack of understanding are not my forte sorry.

They can’t pursue because in-game gold has no cash value. Most they can do is close their account, then they charge back on the credit card and not much is lost.

Meeooww.3742:

They can’t pursue because in-game gold has no cash value.

Actually they can for other reasons (IP laws protect it), and in this case the game has a DIRECT currency trade which provides an exchance rate of sorts.

Vol.5241:

There is nothing technically illegal about gold sellers/botters.

Not sure about murica, but in most EU nations it’s illegal to sell virtual items that belong to someone else.
Gold is classified as a virtual property and cannot be sold, even ideas are covered by intellectual property laws.
Legally, you own nothing in GW2, including your account and all items related to it.

But here we come to the issue: it all depends on where the site is hosted.
If the site is hosted in say China, America can ask China to collaborate on the issue by allowing them to force the hoster to give the credentials of the site owner.
If China refuses to give any info on the site owner, America is stuck.

That’s why most illegal sites are hosted in nations that don’t let other states touch the hosters or the owners of the sites hosted there, if the hosting state says NO to your investigation on their hosters, you’re stuck.

Of course hacking the hoster to steal the credentials of site owner would not count in court.
Evidence obtained illegally is void.

Meeooww.3742:

They can’t pursue because in-game gold has no cash value. Most they can do is close their account, then they charge back on the credit card and not much is lost.

OK – that is quite different to what you originally wrote and I quoted… so lets go again!

Well actually they can block entire ranges (or single) IP addresses, but the botters just move out of the range and the site that sells it is entirely different again…

Around six years ago most gold “botting” was in fact employees of companies related to the sellers being “paid” (if you can call it that) to grind, then it became more profitable to just hack/exploit accounts, which is lower risk/profile/easier than the servers.

Red Falcon.8257:

Vol.5241:

There is nothing technically illegal about gold sellers/botters.

Not sure about murica, but in most EU nations it’s illegal to sell virtual items that belong to someone else.
Gold is classified as a virtual property and cannot be sold, even ideas are covered by intellectual property laws.
Legally, you own nothing in GW2, including your account and all items related to it.

the actual issue is not selling virtual property, because it is clear that is illegal. how they get around that is in the fine print: they are charging a premium for a service…basically a ‘transportation’ cost- the cost of shipping that item to you(in game mail).

this is nothing new as this existed back in the diablo 2 days(possibly even earlier?) when items were sold in a less sophisticated fashion on ebay and to avoid legal persecution by blizzard, sellers put up disclaimers in the form of ‘you are paying for the cost of shipment of this item to your account. the item remains the sole property of blizzard inc.’ or something along those lines.

Gold sellers have a hard time with GW2, we can already buy gold through legit means. This means gold sellers need to sell gold cheaper than the game sells it, thus they are greatly hindered.

The worst case scenario is when they hack/steal credit cards to buy gems for gold to then sell, but that is criminal and indeed punishable by law.

Zaviel.1245:

Gold sellers have a hard time with GW2, we can already buy gold through legit means. This means gold sellers need to sell gold cheaper than the game sells it, thus they are greatly hindered.

The worst case scenario is when they hack/steal credit cards to buy gems for gold to then sell, but that is criminal and indeed punishable by law.

Nope – they just exploit your account, liquidate or send off your stuff into their network of accounts, done.

If I were in their shoes and y’know – Java was full of holes, people didn’t patch their PCs, and there was some site I knew the players visited I’d just target that first…

Anyone with a clue and a stolen credit card would not be buying gems, they’re running the timer against converting linden / whatever into litecoin into BTC.

Oh – I say too much – back to LFG site now, hey look 3rd party banner seems legit.

:-\

if Anet hire gold farmer to protect their server, maybe bots will have hard time do their stuff.

you know, fight fire with fire stuff.

SchuMidas.4782:

if Anet hire gold farmer to protect their server, maybe bots will have hard time do their stuff.

you know, fight fire with fire stuff.

Ah… yeah…. stand the gold farmer right in front of the server to protect it… since it will be about as useful.

Sorry to be entirely cruel and condescending here but have any of you actually read anything on the illicit RMT within MMORPGs?

I hope you all go out and read about internet security – Anet has teams of people (outsourced and in house) with relevant quals and experience protecting their assets, have you got an up to date OS, firewall/security suite, and browser?

kiba.2768:

Red Falcon.8257:

Vol.5241:

There is nothing technically illegal about gold sellers/botters.

Not sure about murica, but in most EU nations it’s illegal to sell virtual items that belong to someone else.
Gold is classified as a virtual property and cannot be sold, even ideas are covered by intellectual property laws.
Legally, you own nothing in GW2, including your account and all items related to it.

the actual issue is not selling virtual property, because it is clear that is illegal. how they get around that is in the fine print: they are charging a premium for a service…basically a ‘transportation’ cost- the cost of shipping that item to you(in game mail).

this is nothing new as this existed back in the diablo 2 days(possibly even earlier?) when items were sold in a less sophisticated fashion on ebay and to avoid legal persecution by blizzard, sellers put up disclaimers in the form of ‘you are paying for the cost of shipment of this item to your account. the item remains the sole property of blizzard inc.’ or something along those lines.

That was to get around Ebay’s EULA, not to prevent law men kicking down their doors.

C’mon peeps – keep up.

thisolderhead.5127:

kiba.2768:

Red Falcon.8257:

Vol.5241:

There is nothing technically illegal about gold sellers/botters.

Not sure about murica, but in most EU nations it’s illegal to sell virtual items that belong to someone else.
Gold is classified as a virtual property and cannot be sold, even ideas are covered by intellectual property laws.
Legally, you own nothing in GW2, including your account and all items related to it.

the actual issue is not selling virtual property, because it is clear that is illegal. how they get around that is in the fine print: they are charging a premium for a service…basically a ‘transportation’ cost- the cost of shipping that item to you(in game mail).

this is nothing new as this existed back in the diablo 2 days(possibly even earlier?) when items were sold in a less sophisticated fashion on ebay and to avoid legal persecution by blizzard, sellers put up disclaimers in the form of ‘you are paying for the cost of shipment of this item to your account. the item remains the sole property of blizzard inc.’ or something along those lines.

That was to get around Ebay’s EULA, not to prevent law men kicking down their doors.

C’mon peeps – keep up.

i didn’t mention the third party sites selling directly either, but they had the same disclaimer.

it has less to do with ebay’s eula than you’re giving credit

SchuMidas.4782:

if Anet hire gold farmer to protect their server, maybe bots will have hard time do their stuff.

you know, fight fire with fire stuff.

Any keen conspiracy theorist might be saying.. be careful what you wish for" right now…. I have long thought many of these “gold farming sites” would make an ideal external revenue stream to an MMO especially when internal revenues begin to look unattractive and profits start to fall off the peak … I mean could you imagine if you logged into “insert your MMO of choice”, went to the auction house or trading post only to find the item you just spent a lifetime farming for or broke your bank account in order to buy components in game for it, suddenly had your item on sale ofr a 1/5 of what you have realistically invested – outrage would ensue im sure. But place them externally and everyone sees it as a bargain, players post hate topics about the external site but bottom line the fat cats are getting their milk from both sides of the garden wall.. genius

Well I believe in bots because there are just some things people shouldnt have to do in a game and best left for robots to do. Mainly repeated tasks. If you have to repeat something over and over again that a bot could do it, maybe it shouldnt be for humans to do. I think we’re better than being human robots, so why waste our creative energies with mundane repative tasks? Anet should provide tools to make our own bots were we can program them to our liking. The game wouldnt be how long you can last doing the same thing over and over but how creative you are in setting up things to get at the loots.

Hello,

While we understand & appreciate your concerns about this issue, the forums are not the place to discuss about anything related to gold-seller/hacks/exploits/bots.

Our Guild Wars 2 User Agreement & Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct explain what is considered as such.

If you have any concerns and/or questions about this, please contact our Customer Support Team.

Thank you!