Guild Wars 2

zenleto.6179:

Calae.1738:

This game is a haven for casual players. Maybe that’s a good thing. When a AAA hardcore MMO is released that requires actual skill and minimal brain activity; the casual players can stay right here.

I’m more than happy to let those with minimal brain activity get their jollies elsewhere.

I see what you did here… well done, I must say :-)

Zelyhn.8069:

Why should players feel bad about the fact that some players are better than them?

Not me, I want to know what I’m not doing right and want them on my team … unless they’re nasty people.

Maybe your problem about shouting in Lion’s Arch is about how you said it, too? Saying “Experienced player looking for group to do X” shouldn’t be so bad, but saying “Hoody hoo, I kick butt and take names!” might not get you the same good response. (unless they recognize the quote)

Zelyhn.8069:

Facepunch.5710:

RedCobra.7693:

…id say that 100% of the praise i have recieved from being skilled has never come from me telling someone, its because they either instanced with me and wanted to add me or dueled me in wvw

This comment in conjunction with my own experiences in game (not saying I’m skilled, I mean when I play with people who are clearly more skilled than I) reinforces my opinion that there isn’t rampant “talent hate” in this community.

If I’m in Arah and my group nearly wipes on Lupi in P3, but we have one guy who stays up, handles Lupi’s aggro, and gets someone else up and we recover, I recognize that he needed skill to do that and I appreciate him for it.

Same in WvW when following a skilled commander.

I just don’t see where this idea that people dislike skilled players comes from, so it’s easiest to assume that your experiences are coming from players picking up on an attitude from you that you are more skilled than they are. You may not have that attitude, and I may be wrong. But in that case please explain what your experiences are that led you to post this, because the points you’ve made so far don’t resonate with me at all.

Why should players feel bad about the fact that some players are better than them?

The question should be “Why do some players…”

Not everyone is secure enough in themselves to handle being around being around those who have greater talent or knowledge or whatever. It’s just more thing that makes people individuals.

Zelyhn.8069:

Facepunch.5710:

RedCobra.7693:

…id say that 100% of the praise i have recieved from being skilled has never come from me telling someone, its because they either instanced with me and wanted to add me or dueled me in wvw

This comment in conjunction with my own experiences in game (not saying I’m skilled, I mean when I play with people who are clearly more skilled than I) reinforces my opinion that there isn’t rampant “talent hate” in this community.

If I’m in Arah and my group nearly wipes on Lupi in P3, but we have one guy who stays up, handles Lupi’s aggro, and gets someone else up and we recover, I recognize that he needed skill to do that and I appreciate him for it.

Same in WvW when following a skilled commander.

I just don’t see where this idea that people dislike skilled players comes from, so it’s easiest to assume that your experiences are coming from players picking up on an attitude from you that you are more skilled than they are. You may not have that attitude, and I may be wrong. But in that case please explain what your experiences are that led you to post this, because the points you’ve made so far don’t resonate with me at all.

Why should players feel bad about the fact that some players are better than them?

Feel bad about themselves you mean? Where have you seen this in the game? Guildies or friends getting down on themselves when they make mistakes? Of course there will be some self-deprecation, possibly jokingly, possibly serious, when someone doesn’t perform well. I don’t see this as specific to GW2’s community. I also don’t see it as even close to the way you’ve framed this thread as “The hate for talent.”

What exactly is this thread about?

Try this, go into a bar – or I daresay an irish pub – and proclaim however humbly that you are a good XYZ. What will the reaction be.

Everyone stops drinking and watches you in awe?
Everyone stops drinking and breaks out laughing?
Most people ignoring you, some challenging you?

Aye, proper boasting takes practice. Most people only think they are good at it. Then they feel misunderstood.

Facepunch.5710:

Zelyhn.8069:

Facepunch.5710:

RedCobra.7693:

…id say that 100% of the praise i have recieved from being skilled has never come from me telling someone, its because they either instanced with me and wanted to add me or dueled me in wvw

This comment in conjunction with my own experiences in game (not saying I’m skilled, I mean when I play with people who are clearly more skilled than I) reinforces my opinion that there isn’t rampant “talent hate” in this community.

If I’m in Arah and my group nearly wipes on Lupi in P3, but we have one guy who stays up, handles Lupi’s aggro, and gets someone else up and we recover, I recognize that he needed skill to do that and I appreciate him for it.

Same in WvW when following a skilled commander.

I just don’t see where this idea that people dislike skilled players comes from, so it’s easiest to assume that your experiences are coming from players picking up on an attitude from you that you are more skilled than they are. You may not have that attitude, and I may be wrong. But in that case please explain what your experiences are that led you to post this, because the points you’ve made so far don’t resonate with me at all.

Why should players feel bad about the fact that some players are better than them?

Feel bad about themselves you mean? Where have you seen this in the game? Guildies or friends getting down on themselves when they make mistakes? Of course there will be some self-deprecation, possibly jokingly, possibly serious, when someone doesn’t perform well. I don’t see this as specific to GW2’s community. I also don’t see it as even close to the way you’ve framed this thread as “The hate for talent.”

its difficult to distinguish between pride and boasting there is a slight difference however the intentions are different so it recieves completely different responses from the public,
i work hard for the achievments i recieve so it is only normal that i would like to be recognised for them so i try to be careful in how i go about it.

Jack of Tears.9458:

Zelyhn.8069:

Why should players feel bad about the fact that some players are better than them?

Not me, I want to know what I’m not doing right and want them on my team … unless they’re nasty people.

Maybe your problem about shouting in Lion’s Arch is about how you said it, too? Saying “Experienced player looking for group to do X” shouldn’t be so bad, but saying “Hoody hoo, I kick butt and take names!” might not get you the same good response. (unless they recognize the quote)

Like I mentioned several times I do not shout, brag, or boast in LA.
I may occasionally advertise my guild (with skill requirement) but I do it in a respectful manner.

My observations are that a lot of players simply do not want to get better.
Also a lot of players refuse to acknowledge that some players can be better than them, and many more do not know what being a good player actually implies.
the vast majority of the player base feels bad if they hear about the skill of an other player (again I am not talking about boasting..). My point is that there is no reason for this. No one should ever feel bad because some people are more skilled at doing anything. But in GW2 they do, and they will resent good players for (intentionally or not) fostering this feeling.

Let’s put it like this:

Z: “Guild with skill requirement recruiting good players”

A: “How do you know you are good? [insult]”
B: “LOL”
C: “I hate elitists”
D: “Be humble [insult]”
E: “Mindless zerkist [insult]”

There is no such thing as talent in MMOs (not including sPvP)

The only thing that you need in MMO’s is fast reaction times.

Getting better at … what?
Are you sure you are not reading your own feelings into others? Perhaps disappointment?
(all hypothetically here)
You may talk about dungeons – I would not answer you in map-chat because I’m not interested.
You may talk about jumping puzzles – well – that’s great for you, now what? Maybe I want to figure it out myself? Maybe you would talk about a specific one, then, if I have time I might say – show me, now!
PvP? Not interested?
RP? How dare thou declare such … hang in there, have to grab my dictionary …

Zelyhn.8069:

the vast majority of the player base feels bad if they hear about the skill of an other player (again I am not talking about boasting..).

Really? The vast majority feels bad when they hear about the skill of another player? What do you have to back up this claim? A survey of GW2 players indicating a majority feel this way? Or is it just a feeling you have from a few personal experiences?

Zelyhn.8069:

No one should ever feel bad because some people are more skilled at doing anything. But in GW2 they do, and they will resent good players for (intentionally or not) fostering this feeling.

I agree, but again you’re making a blanket statement. I’m really not trying to be nitpicky or hostile at all, but I do have a big problem with completely unfounded statements presented as facts.

too bad, this game is too easy, and no matter how good you are, you aren’t getting anything out of it, except maybe PvP.

Vol.5241:

There is no such thing as talent in MMOs (not including sPvP)

The only thing that you need in MMO’s is fast reaction times.

wow lol im in FOW if you ever duel lets put our reactions to the test xD

Lighter.5631:

too bad, this game is too easy, and no matter how good you are, you aren’t getting anything out of it, except maybe PvP.

i saw this at the start and became a WvW player, not that it doesnt fulfil the skill needs but it doesnt give any recognition to players outside wvw, maybe a guild cape that upgrades the better your guild does in wvw or maybe a WvW sword that upgrades look the more wxp you get.

Z: “Guild with skill requirement recruiting good players”

A: Oh look, it’s Madz, the super good softcore elitist team, how can I prove that I’m worthy?
B: Madz are recruiting, I hope I’ll make it – test me, test me.
C: Oh I’ll give everything for the privilege to be in that guild, but they have skill requirements and I don’t think I’m good enough.
D: Master! Please teach me to be good!

Is this seriously the kind of reaction you are expecting? You might be a good gamer, you might be the best, maddest gamers that solo’s 25 man raids – but you don’t seem to be good with people.

Who actually cares about how “skilled” another player is? If I heard player x solo’ed a specific dungeon, I would think cool, guy/girl knows what they are doing. I see some one posting in chat “skilled player lfg”, and I think skilled how? This is a game. Games are meant to be fun. If a player in my groups dies right and left, can’t take down a mob to save their own life but are fun to play with? that’s who I am going to group with. On the other hand, if a player can beat the entire game solo, has every legendary available and 1 million in gold sitting in his bank, but thinks he is god’s gift to the game and lets everyone know it, he is not getting in my group.

Years ago when I took martial arts, my instructor used to say if you saw a guy in a bar boasting about how good he was you could probably take him down with a slap to the back of the head. It was the guy who sat with his back to the wall, not saying a word that you had to worry about.

Facepunch.5710:

Zelyhn.8069:

the vast majority of the player base feels bad if they hear about the skill of an other player (again I am not talking about boasting..).

Really? The vast majority feels bad when they hear about the skill of another player? What do you have to back up this claim? A survey of GW2 players indicating a majority feel this way? Or is it just a feeling you have from a few personal experiences?

Zelyhn.8069:

No one should ever feel bad because some people are more skilled at doing anything. But in GW2 they do, and they will resent good players for (intentionally or not) fostering this feeling.

I agree, but again you’re making a blanket statement. I’m really not trying to be nitpicky or hostile at all, but I do have a big problem with completely unfounded statements presented as facts.

Everything I say is “only my opinion” and should only be considered as such. This is obvious enough that I do not have to mention it every sentence I hope.
I have no survey or hard fact to back my statements, if I had them there would be very little room for discussion.
But i’d rather discuss a bit :)

what about pride and boasting for competitions between friends, you have got the boasting to public down to a t and i agree with you but youre not seeing the full picture
@shiningsquirrel

Rouven.7409:

Z: “Guild with skill requirement recruiting good players”

A: Oh look, it’s Madz, the super good softcore elitist team, how can I prove that I’m worthy?
B: Madz are recruiting, I hope I’ll make it – test me, test me.
C: Oh I’ll give everything for the privilege to be in that guild, but they have skill requirements and I don’t think I’m good enough.
D: Master! Please teach me to be good!

Is this seriously the kind of reaction you are expecting? You might be a good gamer, you might be the best, maddest gamers that solo’s 25 man raids – but you don’t seem to be good with people.

You seem to assume that I am looking for recognition.
This is merely a guild advertisement and should only be considered as such.

the only kind of reaction I am expecting is a whisper for more information if someone is interested, otherwise ignoring my advert would be the norm

But it is not what is happening, hence my OP.

I would say the reason people with skill tend to get flamed in the mediums you are talking about OP (forums and chat in LA) is that there is no way to prove they are skilled.

Your first sentence: ‘Claim to be skilled’.

THAT is bragging, and no one likes it, it comes across as arrogant, and makes you feel like the person speaking is trying to make you feel inferior.

No one here is claiming that real skill is bad but surely you see why people don’t like others who go around ‘Claiming to be skilled’ in a place where proof is impossible?

zenleto.6179:

Calae.1738:

This game is a haven for casual players. Maybe that’s a good thing. When a AAA hardcore MMO is released that requires actual skill and minimal brain activity; the casual players can stay right here.

I’m more than happy to let those with minimal brain activity get their jollies elsewhere.

The implication was that Guild Wars 2 requires no brain functions what so ever to succeed. But I see what you did there. Well played sir.

Zelyhn.8069:

You seem to assume that I am looking for recognition.
This is merely a guild advertisement and should only be considered as such.

the only kind of reaction I am expecting is a whisper for more information if someone is interested, otherwise ignoring my advert would be the norm

But it is not what is happening, hence my OP.

Ah. Well. How should I put this – I think the reaction(s) you are experiencing here are fairly standard in terms of MMO/internet.

If you are not getting any whispers, then you might want to change your tactic.

Zelyhn.8069:

Rouven.7409:

Z: “Guild with skill requirement recruiting good players”

A: Oh look, it’s Madz, the super good softcore elitist team, how can I prove that I’m worthy?
B: Madz are recruiting, I hope I’ll make it – test me, test me.
C: Oh I’ll give everything for the privilege to be in that guild, but they have skill requirements and I don’t think I’m good enough.
D: Master! Please teach me to be good!

Is this seriously the kind of reaction you are expecting? You might be a good gamer, you might be the best, maddest gamers that solo’s 25 man raids – but you don’t seem to be good with people.

You seem to assume that I am looking for recognition.
This is merely a guild advertisement and should only be considered as such.

the only kind of reaction I am expecting is a whisper for more information if someone is interested, otherwise ignoring my advert would be the norm

But it is not what is happening, hence my OP.

ahh guilds, now this is my area, im going to assume you are a GL, why would you want to invite people to your guild that think they are worthy? it would attract the worng type of people, i personally look at all players, one of my best guildies i met when they were lvl 3 in queensdale and i played for about 4hours with them, i trained them and introduced them bit by bit to each aspect of the game, now he is one of my go to guys for dungoens, better than i am lol (uh-oh self-recognition xD) but in seriousness my point is you shouldn’t pre-judge people as they might just be better than you yet you dont know it yet.

Vol.5241:

There is no such thing as talent in MMOs (not including sPvP)

The only thing that you need in MMO’s is fast reaction times.

Given that most MMOs have something like Global Cooldown or Aftercast Delay, even that isn’t necessary. In the average MMO you’ve got 1.5 seconds to think your next action through. If that ain’t enough, you’re not worthy of the term “gamer”.

Most MMOs only care about gear, time and knowing the mechanics. In GW2 it’s mostly mechanics that’s important.

marnick.4305:

Vol.5241:

There is no such thing as talent in MMOs (not including sPvP)

The only thing that you need in MMO’s is fast reaction times.

Given that most MMOs have something like Global Cooldown or Aftercast Delay, even that isn’t necessary. In the average MMO you’ve got 1.5 seconds to think your next action through. If that ain’t enough, you’re not worthy of the term “gamer”.

Most MMOs only care about gear, time and knowing the mechanics. In GW2 it’s mostly mechanics that’s important.

hmm im going to have to disaggree, alot of the gear i use with my mesmer build i have spent countless hours producing, its not about getting a full set its about balancing to your abilities between damage and defense, this is why i lov the gear system as you get all the time in the world to figure it out, skill is definitly needed in wvw,

im not boasting just simply tell me how you would handle a 4v1 if say they are all warriors? whatever response you reply with will be your tactics and tactics can be considered your skill at determining the situation

Were you born yesterday? When someone says he is good at something, it’s automatically perceived as a challenge to others. That’s just the psychology of men. People don’t know you, so why should they take your word on it? Lead by example, not by word alone.

Zelyhn.8069:

Everything I say is “only my opinion” and should only be considered as such. This is obvious enough that I do not have to mention it every sentence I hope.

No, you don’t have to state it in every sentence, but you should state it at least the first time you make an assertion about the community.

From your OP:

People do not want to see or be aware of the fact that some players can be more skilled than them (no boasting, just statement of skill).

^ This is stated as if it is a fact, not something you believe to be true or have a feeling about.

Zelyhn.8069:

It is also the same on the forums.

^ Stated as fact.

Zelyhn.8069:

I believe this is not benefiting the game in itself because it promotes stale and boring gameplay additions rather than diverse and challenging content.

^ Here is where you open up discussion by stating your opinion on the facts you’ve presented.

Zelyhn.8069:

With all due respect, why the discrimination?

^ Here is where you ask for others’ opinions. Asking ‘Why the discrimination?’ is not the same as asking ‘Do you feel there is any discrimination?’

Again, I’m not trying to nitpick, but you began by making statements about the community and then asking why we as a community behave that way, not whether we as the community have seen these types of behaviors or attitudes toward skilled players.

RedCobra.7693:

ahh guilds, now this is my area, im going to assume you are a GL, why would you want to invite people to your guild that think they are worthy? it would attract the worng type of people, i personally look at all players, one of my best guildies i met when they were lvl 3 in queensdale and i played for about 4hours with them, i trained them and introduced them bit by bit to each aspect of the game, now he is one of my go to guys for dungoens, better than i am lol (uh-oh self-recognition xD) but in seriousness my point is you shouldn’t pre-judge people as they might just be better than you yet you dont know it yet.

In fact I never advertise directly for my guild, at least not in open chat.
I usually talk about a friendlist of skilled players. I like to talk extensively to people who whisper to me in order to see if they share my philosophy of the game, and then I may friendlist them. When I can I would run dungeons with these people, but I never talk about recruiting people early on.
I think this is a respectful approach, and I see it as the only way to find other good players (apart from the lucky random PU run).
This method has worked a number of times, but the amount of people getting offended by it is astonishing. I came here to try and understand why :)

Facepunch.5710:

Zelyhn.8069:

Everything I say is “only my opinion” and should only be considered as such. This is obvious enough that I do not have to mention it every sentence I hope.

No, you don’t have to state it in every sentence, but you should state it at least the first time you make an assertion about the community.

From your OP:

People do not want to see or be aware of the fact that some players can be more skilled than them (no boasting, just statement of skill).

^ This is stated as if it is a fact, not something you believe to be true or have a feeling about.

Zelyhn.8069:

It is also the same on the forums.

^ Stated as fact.

Zelyhn.8069:

I believe this is not benefiting the game in itself because it promotes stale and boring gameplay additions rather than diverse and challenging content.

^ Here is where you open up discussion by stating your opinion on the facts you’ve presented.

Zelyhn.8069:

With all due respect, why the discrimination?

^ Here is where you ask for others’ opinions. Asking ‘Why the discrimination?’ is not the same as asking ‘Do you feel there is any discrimination?’

Again, I’m not trying to nitpick, but you began by making statements about the community and then asking why we as a community behave that way, not whether we as the community have seen these types of behaviors or attitudes toward skilled players.

kitten thats some fine analytical skills, you should be a lawyer :P

Zelyhn.8069:

RedCobra.7693:

ahh guilds, now this is my area, im going to assume you are a GL, why would you want to invite people to your guild that think they are worthy? it would attract the worng type of people, i personally look at all players, one of my best guildies i met when they were lvl 3 in queensdale and i played for about 4hours with them, i trained them and introduced them bit by bit to each aspect of the game, now he is one of my go to guys for dungoens, better than i am lol (uh-oh self-recognition xD) but in seriousness my point is you shouldn’t pre-judge people as they might just be better than you yet you dont know it yet.

In fact I never advertise directly for my guild, at least not in open chat.
I usually talk about a friendlist of skilled players. I like to talk extensively to people who whisper to me in order to see if they share my philosophy of the game, and then I may friendlist them. When I can I would run dungeons with these people, but I never talk about recruiting people early on.
I think this is a respectful approach, and I see it as the only way to find other good players (apart from the lucky random PU run).
This method has worked a number of times, but the amount of people getting offended by it is astonishing. I came here to try and understand why

Perhaps because you aren’t clear in your communication? You say one thing, but really mean another? You present things in a way that others may find offensive, even if its not intended that way? You contradict yourself from one statement to the next in the pretext of providing examples, which only serves to confuse and frustrate?

Could be any number of things really….

Zelyhn.8069:

RedCobra.7693:

ahh guilds, now this is my area, im going to assume you are a GL, why would you want to invite people to your guild that think they are worthy? it would attract the worng type of people, i personally look at all players, one of my best guildies i met when they were lvl 3 in queensdale and i played for about 4hours with them, i trained them and introduced them bit by bit to each aspect of the game, now he is one of my go to guys for dungoens, better than i am lol (uh-oh self-recognition xD) but in seriousness my point is you shouldn’t pre-judge people as they might just be better than you yet you dont know it yet.

In fact I never advertise directly for my guild, at least not in open chat.
I usually talk about a friendlist of skilled players. I like to talk extensively to people who whisper to me in order to see if they share my philosophy of the game, and then I may friendlist them. When I can I would run dungeons with these people, but I never talk about recruiting people early on.
I think this is a respectful approach, and I see it as the only way to find other good players (apart from the lucky random PU run).
This method has worked a number of times, but the amount of people getting offended by it is astonishing. I came here to try and understand why

you see zelyhn this is your problem that youre having, you state things that imply that they are from personal experience,

“Z: “Guild with skill requirement recruiting good players”
A: Oh look, it’s Madz, the super good softcore elitist team, how can I prove that I’m worthy?
B: Madz are recruiting, I hope I’ll make it – test me, test me.
C: Oh I’ll give everything for the privilege to be in that guild, but they have skill requirements and I don’t think I’m good enough.
D: Master! Please teach me to be good!”

the way i read this is that you were stating this is what you do, my mistake if i took it the wrong way but if so i look at these guild and assume its some kid who’s thinking he’s high and mighty after grinding a hundred or so hours,

also dungeons dont always represent skill, it does frustrate me sometimes when i see ppl getting kicked because they dont know the tricks, it hurts me as those tricks destroy the game,

ps. the dungeon comment isnt directed at you lol its just something of an opinion in a measurement of skill.

I have to agree with the people who say that advertising a guild on general chat and asking for “skilled players” is a recipe for disaster, a good way to end with not only bad players but also a lot of kids with overinflated egos. Now then, maybe that’s the kind of people some are looking for…

Personally, in my guild, we only take people who are pleasant to play with, even if they aren’t of the “zomg I R top skillz!” type. It works just fine so far.

RedCobra.7693:

kitten thats some fine analytical skills, you should be a lawyer :P

lol thanks, I guess. As I said, I wasn’t trying to overanalyze or nitpick about his wording, I just read stuff under the assumption that the author has taken care to word things according to the points he’s trying to communicate, and when I reply, it will be according to the points that were communicated, that’s all.

I’m not a lawyer =) I’m not going to mention my job because I have done that in games/forums in the past and I’ve been flamed like mad by people who think I’m lying, so I guess it must be a pretty cool job =P

Korrigan.4837:

I have to agree with the people who say that advertising a guild on general chat and asking for “skilled players” is a recipe for disaster, a good way to end with not only bad players but also a lot of kids with overinflated ego.

Personally, in my guild, we only take people who are pleasant to play with, even if they aren’t “zomg top skillz!”.

i personally dont keep people in my guild who are bad at the game and choose to stay that way, its simply the way my guild is, if someone is lacking i will put all my effort into helping them and finding out what they struggle with, im an elitist but i like to think that im one of the good examples, i plan on turning the guild into a WvW guild so i need everyone to be average in it, if not then i will help them, if i know they are going to try i will help, i dont help the people who want a free ride :P

but yeah i aggre with you, its people who advertise like that who are lazy and give “elitists” a VERY bad name.

Facepunch.5710:

RedCobra.7693:

kitten thats some fine analytical skills, you should be a lawyer :P

lol thanks, I guess. As I said, I wasn’t trying to overanalyze or nitpick about his wording, I just read stuff under the assumption that the author has taken care to word things according to the points he’s trying to communicate, and when I reply, it will be according to the points that were communicated, that’s all.

I’m not a lawyer =) I’m not going to mention my job because I have done that in games/forums in the past and I’ve been flamed like mad by people who think I’m lying, so I guess it must be a pretty cool job =P

warning massively off topic

ooooo are you an astronaut? nothing beats an astronaut -wink wink, hint hint, nudge nudge-

kitten axe commercials XD

Edit: Just as a side note, I felt we needed some levity here.

Getting offended by what? What exactly is it your are saying in chat in LA? You’ve said you don’t boast, don’t say you are more skilled, don’t recruit, don’t advertise….

What? What are you saying, then?

Good player != Elistist

Good player:
Killed an oppenent, say nothing, move on.
Oppenent “kitten , you aim so fast” “you have perfect interrupt” etc….

Elistist:
Killed an oppenent, “Oh you noob learn how to play”
Of course people are gonna fire back to you.

Happens in every game.

Zelyhn.8069:

In fact I never advertise directly for my guild, at least not in open chat.
I usually talk about a friendlist of skilled players. I like to talk extensively to people who whisper to me in order to see if they share my philosophy of the game, and then I may friendlist them. When I can I would run dungeons with these people, but I never talk about recruiting people early on.
I think this is a respectful approach, and I see it as the only way to find other good players (apart from the lucky random PU run).
This method has worked a number of times, but the amount of people getting offended by it is astonishing. I came here to try and understand why

This isn’t exactly the best place to learn about human psychology. Most people don’t know why they feel anxiety when others claim to be good at something, that they themselves have an interest in.

In fact I never advertise directly for my guild, at least not in open chat.
I usually talk about a friendlist of skilled players. I like to talk extensively to people who whisper to me in order to see if they share my philosophy of the game, and then I may friendlist them. When I can I would run dungeons with these people, but I never talk about recruiting people early on.
I think this is a respectful approach, and I see it as the only way to find other good players (apart from the lucky random PU run).
This method has worked a number of times, but the amount of people getting offended by it is astonishing. I came here to try and understand why

You want to understand why people are offended, then you should look to your own approach. Take your OP for example, several of your opinions are offensive to the majority of the player base. You come off as, I am better than you and you should acknowlwdge that. Why do I need to acknowledge that you have better gaming skills? kitten? Also you come across as telling others they are bad players and should realize their bad playstyle is ruining the game for you.

Zelyhn.8069:

More and more I am experiencing this habit that the community has to despise people who claim to be skilled for this game.

Try it: go to LA, and say that you are a good player.
(Note: I am not saying I do it. This sentence is for rhetorical purposes)

People will instantly tell you that you lack humility, that you are an elitist, that you are despicable etc; for no reason.

People do not want to see or be aware of the fact that some players can be more skilled than them (no boasting, just statement of skill). The community seem to believe that they would be better off without such players.
It appears as if the community would like to stay bad and play only with bad people.

It is also the same on the forums.

I believe this is not benefiting the game in itself because it promotes stale and boring gameplay additions rather than diverse and challenging content.

As a comparison: when you play football as an amateur you play it for fun and you dream of being as skilled as the players of international level. In GW2 the ’amateurs" have no such dreams, worse: they do not want to face the fact that being better is possible.

With all due respect, why the discrimination?

It is a well known fact that people who scream they are skilled usually aren’t, and people who complain about elitists usually aren’t skilled either. The skilled people are the ones playing the game, not arguing over how casual or hardcore they are.

Basically if you need to mention skill, casual player or elite player, you are not skilled.

I didn’t read anything but the first post.

No one hates talent, just people who gloat.

Facepunch.5710:

RedCobra.7693:

kitten thats some fine analytical skills, you should be a lawyer :P

lol thanks, I guess. As I said, I wasn’t trying to overanalyze or nitpick about his wording, I just read stuff under the assumption that the author has taken care to word things according to the points he’s trying to communicate, and when I reply, it will be according to the points that were communicated, that’s all.

I’m not a lawyer =) I’m not going to mention my job because I have done that in games/forums in the past and I’ve been flamed like mad by people who think I’m lying, so I guess it must be a pretty cool job =P

haha no problem, its just that you left no room for counter arguments which means that it was a perfect debating response, okay now i want to know your job title xD
ill start, im an IT technician and proud, but not boasting just showing pride hehe

Zelyhn.8069:

Don’t get me wrong, I am not talking about advertising.
Of course I would never say “I am a good player” in chat in LA.
Please just try to understand the problem here

Addition example:
A highly ranked player in DotA is often a streamer and average people will watch his play to become stronger. This is healthy. it does not prevent average players from having fun, and actually they are usually proud to play a game that has a competitive scene.
In GW2, the community makes sure that no one can have such pride.

This is pure false.

1.) Using your own example no where at all did you give an example of that DotA player proclaiming his skills for hundreds to see. In addition to that DotA is a PvP game with PvP match statistics which can very easily prove or falsify such a comment. GW2 has no such function while “sitting in LA”.

2.) GW2 streamers and recorders who are actually good (equivalent of you “highly ranked” DotA player) are often viewed and praised from many people. Same as your example DotA.

3.) The entire problem comes from your last word, “Pride”. This entire thread is “Why can’t I be publicly prideful?” Is that not in and of itself the problem? Even if a “Highly ranked” DotA player said “I am a good and skillful player” in a lobby in the same fashion as in GW2 it would get the same reaction if stats were blocked.

4.) Yes, you are talking about advertising and that is what your comments are; Public statements. If I wanted into LA and said, “I am bisexual.” what is that? Advertising my sexuality. It works the same way for you supposed comment.

Self proclaiming “skill” (which in generally the apex of achievement of any video game) for hundreds to see is indeed “Advertising” and therefore a lack of humility. That is why people take such things negatively. In addition to that the lack of any real meaning of “skill” in GW2 short of tPvP or very high level fractals further goes to undermine such comments and label them as either “attention seeking” or “arrogant”. Both of which are commonly viewed as negative attributes.

TL;DR:

Go back and read it because it’s obvious you need to.

Castaliea.3156:

TL;DR:

Go back and read it because it’s obvious you need to.

That’s the really funny part, because he wrote it. Either he doesn’t quite know what he wants to say, or he doesn’t know how to say it. Because what he’s trying to get at, and what he’s actually say are not the same thing.

RedCobra.7693:

Korrigan.4837:

I have to agree with the people who say that advertising a guild on general chat and asking for “skilled players” is a recipe for disaster, a good way to end with not only bad players but also a lot of kids with overinflated ego.

Personally, in my guild, we only take people who are pleasant to play with, even if they aren’t “zomg top skillz!”.

i personally dont keep people in my guild who are bad at the game and choose to stay that way, its simply the way my guild is, if someone is lacking i will put all my effort into helping them and finding out what they struggle with, im an elitist but i like to think that im one of the good examples, i plan on turning the guild into a WvW guild so i need everyone to be average in it, if not then i will help them, if i know they are going to try i will help, i dont help the people who want a free ride :P

but yeah i aggre with you, its people who advertise like that who are lazy and give “elitists” a VERY bad name.

Well I’m glad I’m not in your guild. I guess I don’t take video games seriously enough to behave like that towards fellow players, and even less towards fellow guild mates. And yet we don’t have any trouble tackling any of the content of the game, including WvW.

As I said, I rather be surrounded by pleasant people even if they aren’t the best players ever than by “skilled” ones who take games way too seriously and are not pleasant to play with. I play games to relax, not to manage a second job as guild leader to lead a sort of pseudo military organization in a game after I’m done with my real job.

When I remove someone from my guild (happened once so far since release, we have a good recruitment policy), it’s because he behaved badly and broke our few guild rules which mostly say “be nice”. Never because he’s less skilled than others. I’d hate myself if I ever did that.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Castaliea.3156:

TL;DR:

Go back and read it because it’s obvious you need to.

That’s the really funny part, because he wrote it. Either he doesn’t quite know what he wants to say, or he doesn’t know how to say it. Because what he’s trying to get at, and what he’s actually say are not the same thing.

hey cmon man he’s still a human :P please dont snowball him, i always try to read the comments with a light heart, i can see where the OP is coming from, i believe what he is trying to say is that the whole feel to gw2 is that skill is trying to be removed from the equation and tbh excluding spvp he’s right, even in wvw it isnt pure skill due to the population unbalance issue

RedCobra.7693:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Castaliea.3156:

TL;DR:

Go back and read it because it’s obvious you need to.

That’s the really funny part, because he wrote it. Either he doesn’t quite know what he wants to say, or he doesn’t know how to say it. Because what he’s trying to get at, and what he’s actually say are not the same thing.

hey cmon man he’s still a human :P please dont snowball him, i always try to read the comments with a light heart, i can see where the OP is coming from, i believe what he is trying to say is that the whole feel to gw2 is that skill is trying to be removed from the equation and tbh excluding spvp he’s right, even in wvw it isnt pure skill due to the population unbalance issue

I wasn’t trying to snowball him. I completely understand to be human is to err…a lot. I was simply pointing out the disconnect, and laughing about it. Sadly, the problem is further compounded because while he sees our points, he isn’t corrolating them with what he gave us as the issue. He gave us ‘A’ wanting the answer to ‘B’, so we answered ‘A’ because we didn’t know he wanted ‘B’ (because he didn’t give us it).

Then it just grows further because some people are now trying to address ‘B’ and he flips back to ‘A’ confusing everything. At this point, I’ve just grabbed popcorn and propped my feet up.

=D

Zelyhn.8069:

My observations are that a lot of players simply do not want to get better.
Also a lot of players refuse to acknowledge that some players can be better than them, and many more do not know what being a good player actually implies.

In your observation how can you possibly know if players wanna get better or not? Doesn’t playing the game for any amount of time make you better at it? Doesn’t trying out new classes, weapons, skills, builds, make you better at it? In your observation alot of other players don’t do these things? I’d love to know where this observation – of completely unobservable events – comes from.

Alot of players refuse to acknowledge someone could be better … did you do a poll on this? How many people have you asked if they believe people can be better at it? Most of the people I see suggesting nobody could be better than they are also the people claiming it takes no skill to play the game. (and this you see on the forums, even in this very thread) So, you’re better at doing something that takes no skill to accomplish? You can’t have it both ways.

The last part is completely subjective. If I’m super at PvE but Awful at WvW am I a good player or bad? If I’m awesome in one dungeon, but terrible in another one, am I bad or good? If I have all exotics and cleave my way through Orr, or wear all Greens and cleave my way through Orr which one makes me better – the person what knew to get exotics and earned them or the person what didn’t feel they needed ’em?

Are you better than me in PvE? Sure, why not, congratulations, here’s some sparkles. * # * #
Feel better now?

RedCobra.7693:

its difficult to distinguish between pride and boasting (…)

Pride is something you have.
Boasting is something that requires other people. If you boast in the forest and no one hears you how many baby cats were given?

The premise of the OP is that people hate you for talent and the example he gives is that someone in LA shouts “I’m a good player.” and gets murdered. Wrong. They don’t hate you for being a good player they hate you for boasting to be a good player.

Some people can be happy in their knowledge/belief that they are a good player. Some people need other people to feel good about themselves.

RedCobra.7693:

what about pride and boasting for competitions between friends, you have got the boasting to public down to a t and i agree with you but youre not seeing the full picture
@shiningsquirrel

What full picture?
The op was talking about public chat in LA. If your going to be talking to friends, why on earth would anyone want to clutter up public chat with that? You should either use guild, party or whispers. It’s comparing apples to hand grenades, the 2 subjects really have to relationship to each other.