Guild Wars 2

Now now, let’s all focus on the matter, gentlemen.

First we should think that we don’t have much to complain in terms of combat advantage because that one isn’t quite the issue.
You can buy exotics with 3 or 4 dungeon runs off the TP and be competitive as well having some gold to spare.
The Gemstore may be a problem only about the economy of the game, but not about advantages or so, because most of the things up there are fashion, minis, look changers, the boosts you can get via in-game and they don’t make such a big difference in terms of combat, and by the way, I don’t remember exactly but some of them should not work in pvp or wvw, so.

What you really should think about is the impotence that casual players may have against the “skin” farm.
Let’s suppose that a casual player like me wants to get a skin because he likes it: let’s say the Foefire’s Essence. This sword costs around 400g just for the appearance and the cost of the materials to make it. Those materials are the real problem since they are rare, don’t drop so frequently, and you need around 100 or so to get the sword, but people sell them for a lot.

So we have casual players, or players who don’t want to or can’t farm, that want to get something very expensive. What can we do about it?
This is the impotence I’m talking about. You can’t get it without dedicating yourself to the game for a lot of time.

Unfortunately GW2 doesn’t give everyone equal possibilities. It may be that in terms of combat everyone can compete, but playing a MMORPG isn’t only about combat, it is also for the pleasure of creating a character like you want, both parameters and looks. And here we have an obvious gap.

So, Anet, make these materials more frequent to get via different activities, but don’t think only about the farmers who can farm things per hours or about another RNG system.
I don’t know, maybe a new dungeon that once completed allows you to select a very small amount of rare materials to get. Something that gives you a reward for your effort that even casual players can afford, in a similar way you get ascended materials now at the end of a dungeon.

And if you had no time and it was a long grind you couldn’t do it. In most MMOs the best stuff requires the longest grind. Guild Wars 2 changed things up so you can get some of the skins for cash. People who work a lot and don’t have time can buy gems, sell gems and get the skin.

What you’re complaining about, paraphrased is this.

I don’t have time to play the game, so all rewards should be geared to people who only have as much time to play the game as I have.

Which would kill the game completely.

I believe most people need stuff to work for. It’s that simple. If someone gets everything they want, they stop playing the game…not everyone, but many people if not most. It happened to my son. He got his legendary and stopped playing. He came back for ascended weapons, got that and stopped playing again.

People who have lots of time need stuff to do in game too.

So maybe you can’t have everything in game? Is that fair?

As long as it’s not giving you numerical advantage, I don’t see the problem. There are a lot of skins in the game. If you’re going to attach yourself to a specific skin, either buy it with cash, or take your time getting it.

Either way, the game can’t cater to a single play style, or demographic.

OP Is like wanna get the LionHeart on Disc 1 in FFVIII.

Time should matter, but the problem with GW2 is that time is pretty much the only thing that matters in PvE. An MMO should reward both time and skill, with the latter being something that a casual player could have as much of as someone who plays ten hours a day.

dekou.6012:

Time should matter, but the problem with GW2 is that time is pretty much the only thing that matters in PvE. An MMO should reward both time and skill, with the latter being something that a casual player could have as much of as someone who plays ten hours a day.

There have been rewards for skill but not enough of them. Certainly the Liadri mini at least required some level of skill. Some of the jumping titles or the weapon skins for completing Tribulation mode of SAB also required skill.

Grind for cosmetic items is okay with me. I don’t like any grind but I can deal with that.

Ascended gear is where I begin to have a problem…

Vayne.8563:

dekou.6012:

Time should matter, but the problem with GW2 is that time is pretty much the only thing that matters in PvE. An MMO should reward both time and skill, with the latter being something that a casual player could have as much of as someone who plays ten hours a day.

There have been rewards for skill but not enough of them. Certainly the Liadri mini at least required some level of skill. Some of the jumping titles or the weapon skins for completing Tribulation mode of SAB also required skill.

True, but I’m talking about core items like armor and weapons and core gameplay. As much as I like SAB and its skins, it’s a minigame. ANet had a chance to fix this with Ascended weapons. Maybe put them in high-level Fractals and new/revamped, difficult dungeon paths. However, they chose not to.

While I’m usually a bit cranky about content that’s locked behind excessive grinding/cost, I’m not entirely against it occasionally, especially in the area of weapons. While there are certain weapons I’ll never be able, or at least willing, to pay for, (looking at you, Immobulus and The Anomaly,) I don’t mind it terribly because I have plenty of good looking alternatives for weapon skins.

It’s a balancing act, certainly, because the more exclusive the content is, the fewer people get to enjoy it, but I’m okay with some skins providing a long-term goal for people who aren’t casual players, including heavy farmers and prestige hounds. It’s not a way of playing that I particularly agree with, but, hey, something for everyone, including playstyles I don’t personally enjoy.

What I really think that matters in GW2 is regularity. A person that plays for only two hour a day everyday can earn gold and good equipment faster than someone that plays for twelve hours on weekends only due to daily tasks like world bosses chests, dungeon rewards, laurels and ascended mat crafting.
I’m not complaining. I’m busy with college and internship, so I appreciate that I can get somewhere even not being able playing for many hours a day (except for Wednesdays and weekends).

dekou.6012:

Vayne.8563:

dekou.6012:

Time should matter, but the problem with GW2 is that time is pretty much the only thing that matters in PvE. An MMO should reward both time and skill, with the latter being something that a casual player could have as much of as someone who plays ten hours a day.

There have been rewards for skill but not enough of them. Certainly the Liadri mini at least required some level of skill. Some of the jumping titles or the weapon skins for completing Tribulation mode of SAB also required skill.

True, but I’m talking about core items like armor and weapons and core gameplay. As much as I like SAB and its skins, it’s a minigame. ANet had a chance to fix this with Ascended weapons. Maybe put them in high-level Fractals and new/revamped, difficult dungeon paths. However, they chose not to.

There are still fractal skins and Arah armor. Not everyone is going to be able to get them. It’s not as barren as you’re making out, is all I’m saying.

Could there be more. Always. But stuff takes time to design and most of the playerbase isn’t hard core.

So if you were a developer would you make more armor sets for the small percentage or the greater percentage?

Hmm … 400g. What are you wasting an extra 50g on?

yLoon.5289:

OP Is like wanna get the LionHeart on Disc 1 in FFVIII.

It’s been done. Really time consuming and ultimately pointless, but still possible.

What the OP is actually doing is essentially the same as trying to win FFVII with Aerith still alive. Technically only people who really care about the aesthetics of the game (as well as who are willing to shell out for a GameShark) are capable of this achievement.

Truth be told, casuals shouldn’t need to spend huge fortunes for the best looking skins in the game. Afterall that’s why ascended weapons, and exotic weapons exist in the game. They are cheap alternatives to the truly expensive Legendary Weapons. And add to that the fact that the Ascended Weapons technically have the same stat spreads as the Legendary Weapons and you are looking at a problem where the Legendary Weapons are truly only necessary for people who are absolutely relentless in having the best gear in the game without understanding that the best gear is going to set them back hundreds of dollars in real money (whether they actually spend real money, or it is just the equivalent of real money that they are set back by).

Point is, if you let this game eat away a small fortune in gold, then you are playing the game wrong. The only reason that I can think of that the Legendary Weapons even exist in the game is in order to hold up the tradition of having truly awesome but impractical weapons in the game that was present in Guild Wars 1. The Destroyer Weapons from Guild Wars 1 come to mind as the best example of this.

And truth be told, I am in no way going to spend 1,000 to 3,000 gold or the equivalent in raw materials on purchasing a Legendary Weapon when I can get the same exact stats and just as good an appearance on an Ascended Weapon for a crap ton less money!

Weird topic title, and odd choice of terms (impotence, really?).

It’s actually a balancing act. What I notice in plenty of players is the ‘I want something rare that is easy to get for me but remains hard to get for others’. Those are mutually exclusive though. Any good MMO has a mix of easy to get stuff, stuff that takes a while, and stuff that’s only for the elite. The good thing in Guild Wars (2) is that statwise, you’re not really hadicapped if you don’t get the best stuff. That makes it more bareble to not get that uber 1337 endgame item. Also, not all the good looking stuff is hard to get. That’s also good. And the longtime-elite players can still get their special goodies, which I have no problem with, because I don’t suffer gameplaywise for not having that special rare mini or that awesomely designed legendary sword.

As you can tell, I like the system as it is now…which is also why I still don’t get why Ascended gear had to be implemented.

ThiBash.5634:

As you can tell, I like the system as it is now…which is also why I still don’t get why Ascended gear had to be implemented.

Ascended Gear was implemented (if I am correct on this) for those of us without a spare 520 USD to drop on the Gem to Gold Conversion system so that we would have enough to buy a Legendary Weapon. They are essentially the Poor Man’s Legendary Weapons. They allow people to have the ability to compete on an even footing with those people who own Legendary Weapons in events such as World Vs. World, or High Level Fractals and Dungeons, without actually having to spend the massive amounts of money needed in order to buy a Legendary Weapon.

Unlike popular opinion, when compared to a person wielding a Legendary Weapon (especially in a WvW scenario) a simple Exotic Weapon is just not going to cut it.

OP- the only disadvantage a casual player has in the cosmetics game is that it will take him longer to get stuff.
That is it.
I would really like Eye of Rodgort for my Necro- she is level 44 now- when I saw the costs involved I almost cried.
Then I thought- oh wait- stop selling bloods and see where you are by the time she is 80.
The only way you can possibly feel “impotent” (helpless might have been a better choice) is if you have to have everything right now.

As for ascended- it is an abomination and I will never go there- I value my sanity

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

ThiBash.5634:

As you can tell, I like the system as it is now…which is also why I still don’t get why Ascended gear had to be implemented.

Ascended Gear was implemented (if I am correct on this) for those of us without a spare 520 USD to drop on the Gem to Gold Conversion system so that we would have enough to buy a Legendary Weapon. They are essentially the Poor Man’s Legendary Weapons. They allow people to have the ability to compete on an even footing with those people who own Legendary Weapons in events such as World Vs. World, or High Level Fractals and Dungeons, without actually having to spend the massive amounts of money needed in order to buy a Legendary Weapon.

Unlike popular opinion, when compared to a person wielding a Legendary Weapon (especially in a WvW scenario) a simple Exotic Weapon is just not going to cut it.

How long have you played this lol.. Ascended weapons take tons of hours and gold to craft, they are by no means a poor mans legendary. In fact, I like the look of the Ascended weapons, maybe better than some legendaries. Or you have a good amount of luck. Most people craft their legendaries, dropping cash on one is rare unless you have tons of money. Also, since the difference between an exotic weapon and an ascended/legendary weapon is small (5% more damage) along with a small stat bonus, you won’t have a huge disadvantage in WvW small man fights.

Morrigan.2809:

As for ascended- it is an abomination and I will never go there- I value my sanity

I agree. My interest in GW2 took a noticeable dip when that came out.

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Ascended Gear was implemented (if I am correct on this) for those of us without a spare 520 USD to drop on the Gem to Gold Conversion system so that we would have enough to buy a Legendary Weapon.

Ascended gear was implemented because exotics were a joke. Within the first month, even the first week of the game, “dedicated players” (what ArenaNet called them), exhausted the game’s content, had full exotics and were left with nothing to do. Normally, in other MMOs this is where prepping for and grinding raids comes in to keep you busy until the next major update. Back then however, there were no updates to keep you busy, so a lot of people quit. People wanted something to grind and work towards. This is where fractals came in, along with ascended gear. Things could have turned out very differently if the initial playerbase didn’t rush to the “endgame” to basically try and play WoW.

Before ascended gear was introduced, legendaries were the equivalent of an exotic.

Vayne.8563:

dekou.6012:

Vayne.8563:

dekou.6012:

Time should matter, but the problem with GW2 is that time is pretty much the only thing that matters in PvE. An MMO should reward both time and skill, with the latter being something that a casual player could have as much of as someone who plays ten hours a day.

There have been rewards for skill but not enough of them. Certainly the Liadri mini at least required some level of skill. Some of the jumping titles or the weapon skins for completing Tribulation mode of SAB also required skill.

True, but I’m talking about core items like armor and weapons and core gameplay. As much as I like SAB and its skins, it’s a minigame. ANet had a chance to fix this with Ascended weapons. Maybe put them in high-level Fractals and new/revamped, difficult dungeon paths. However, they chose not to.

There are still fractal skins and Arah armor. Not everyone is going to be able to get them. It’s not as barren as you’re making out, is all I’m saying.

Could there be more. Always. But stuff takes time to design and most of the playerbase isn’t hard core.

So if you were a developer would you make more armor sets for the small percentage or the greater percentage?

Fractal weapons count… sort of. They’re essentially just skins, as they don’t have attribute bonuses. In addition to that, the main reason why not everyone is able to get them is that they’re hidden behind an awful RNG wall. Arah armor will soon lose its status as BiS. Yay.

I’m not saying devs should make ultra-hardcore-would-make-a-devil-cry content, but BiS items should be obtainable from relatively hard content. In GW2’s case, that’s Fractals, Teq and a few other dungeons like Arah. Out of these, only Teq rewards Ascended items. Except you can kill it a hundred times without getting one, so champ trains are still better.

Well guys, you pointed out a lot of points, but I still have something to say:

Essentially what you said until now is that you can live on without that good looking skin just because stats are the same and you aknowledge some skins are meant to be rare and hard to get.

I know this, I understand it, and unlike some of you have wrongly thought, I’m not saying that I want everything here and now. So please, be serious.

I just want to point out that THIS is exactly the helpless (I’m not english, so yeah, helpless is the word I was looking for XD) feeling that some of the casual players have in front of a content that they can’t reach because of time and dedication that they can’t give like others. GW2 should think to reconsider the way how some of this content is made. I’m speaking about skins mainly, but if somebody wants to extend the thing to other hard-to-get-items it’s ok.

There are people who have time and money to spend on the game in high quantity, and people who don’t have this opportunities. So what I’m saying is: create a way to make possible even for this people to get those items. I’m not saying it must be easy, nor immediate, just not so hard or RNG or grindy like it is now.

For example, I understand that they wanted to create a Legendary tier that is supposed to be hard to get: It’s good, adds some spice to the game (though watching Sunrises and Twilights going around like normal swords isn’t exactly legendary to me) but I’m not complaining about it. I know it’s out of my possibilities and I get the concept of having incredibly nice gear in a game.
Ascended weapons? Now that you say they are made to balance things out, I think it’s ok, still too much for me though and not exactly the casual players content because of the materials you need.

But what about the other skins or looks?
Since I never had a big sum of gold (or the luck to drop rare things that is worth some) I could never take those rare dyes, so I had to manage something out. Though I can close an eye, I know that it’s not exactly what I wanted. But if i have to play managing things out, I think you’ll understand that a part of the game content will always be locked up from me.

And by the way, as people stop playing because they have grinded so much they obtained what they wanted, so people stop playing because they know they can’t dedicate that much time to something. The reason there is a Living World and a two weeks regular update is this.

I sort of see what you are saying but I still don’t agree.

I am a very casual player- maybe an hour a day- the max amount of gold I have ever had is 30, I have also never converted gems to gold. (I didn’t seriously think people actually did that)

I have 3 level 80’s in exotics- not interested in ascended.
Those characters look exactly like I want them to and I have never felt disadvantaged in any way.
I have 4 more alts that are in various stages of leveling and are also using really nice skins ( to me) even though they are not 80 yet. A small matter of using trans-stones that I get a ton of by playing.

I have my heart set on Eye of Rodgort- a pretty expensive mystic forge skin and when I tallied up what it would cost I realized I only need the bloods- granted that will cost a kitten load.
I do however play in the open-world and gather everything I see, so it is a simple matter of selling that and waiting- and putting in some buy orders every now and again.

I have never felt that anything in the game is out of my reach- as far as skins go- given time and patience even if I only play for an hour.

The reason you need “skins” and “toys” is because there is no real progression outside of PvE.

We need a real realm ability system (or skills that actually matter system) for WvW.
sPvP should provide bonuses you can take to WvW and PvE too (but NOT the other way around).

Without that, you have to throw in new gear. And this game gets silly with gear that has to be crafted. Crafting is usually just a subculture of a game. Here it is mandatory.
Boo Hiss. There is nothing massive about it at all.

Definitely in agreement with the OP’s bottom line here; there should be more interesting ways of progressing toward cosmetic goals. Not just grinding for gold or hoping to win big with the BLC lottery.

And as far as weapon skins go… it’s time to let some of ‘em flow freely out into the world. There’s been so many sets released, yet they’re all quite rare and often obscenely overpriced. I can’t recall ever seeing someone using a Sclerite weapon. Maybe let some of them just straight up drop from regular open-world mobs ever so often? Like we could have the Wintersday skins as rare drops during December, Zodiac at the start of the new year and so on. It would do little to decrease their prestige, and give the average player a better chance of having something nice for a change.

I can’t disagree with the OP’s call for increasing some materials drop rate. This is something many have called for, and while it’s true there needs to be a balance so things aren’t too easy, the drop rate for some materials is still absolutely terrible. Not talking knee jerk adjustments here, just small tweaks.

I think that’s the only thing I agree with though. As a casual player myself (might get 15 hours of play a week if I’m really pushing it), I have no issue making gold, or building crafting, etc. I don’t mind things taking time to be achieved. Foefire’s Essence is a skin I plan on having, and my goal is to have it within the next year. Just means I buckle down, make a plan for achieving that, and stick to it. Nothing more, nothing less. Generally such goals take me more time than average because I prefer to make it/earn it if I can…rather than just purchasing it off the TP. To me, it means more.

Casual players can achieve the same things “hardcore” players (have I mentioned how much I hate labels?), it just takes a casual player longer because they can’t play in large time chunks, like hardcores generally can. Nothing wrong with that. Of course, a player that can’t buckle down and strive for the goal wouldn’t be any more like to achieve said goal no matter their play type. It requires focus and commitment, which is as it should be.

Yes, there needs to be a measure of balance involved. A cosmetic item should not require so much time as to be completely out of reach for a casual, but also not so easy to get that someone that has lots of time can snag it in just a few play sessions. That’s a very fine line to walk, and as yet I don’t think Anet has found that sweet spot for some things.

Syrpharon.7491:

Let’s suppose that a casual player like me wants to get a skin because he likes it: let’s say the Foefire’s Essence. This sword costs around 400g just for the appearance and the cost of the materials to make it. Those materials are the real problem since they are rare, don’t drop so frequently, and you need around 100 or so to get the sword, but people sell them for a lot.

So we have casual players, or players who don’t want to or can’t farm, that want to get something very expensive. What can we do about it?

If it’s important to you, you can decide to spend either the time or money to get it. If you aren’t willing to spend the time or money, it’s not important to you.

Just like, well, everything else in life.

Morrigan.2809:

I am a very casual player- maybe an hour a day- the max amount of gold I have ever had is 30, I have also never converted gems to gold. (I didn’t seriously think people actually did that)

Of course they do. If they didn’t, the price to convert gold to gems would be much, much higher than it is now. The gem/gold conversion rate is entirely dependent on how much of one is being converted into the other.

I’ve bought gold with gems. I wanted to support the game after launch, don’t care for much of anything in the gem store, and can see the value of getting as much gold from one hours real life work as I would get in ten hours of tediously farming the most lucrative parts of the game.

Gibson.4036:

Morrigan.2809:

I am a very casual player- maybe an hour a day- the max amount of gold I have ever had is 30, I have also never converted gems to gold. (I didn’t seriously think people actually did that)

Of course they do. If they didn’t, the price to convert gold to gems would be much, much higher than it is now. The gem/gold conversion rate is entirely dependent on how much of one is being converted into the other.

I’ve bought gold with gems. I wanted to support the game after launch, don’t care for much of anything in the gem store, and can see the value of getting as much gold from one hours real life work as I would get in ten hours of tediously farming the most lucrative parts of the game.

oh don’t get me wrong I buy gems- I just don’t convert them to gold.

I realize that the exchange rate is player dependent.
my comment was worded badly, sorry
I have just never thought it worth it to convert gems to gold, given how easy it is to come by gold and how expensive it is to convert gold to gems- done that a few times.
So if I want something that costs gems I just buy gems.

As for farming I am allergic to it, so I don’t do it- mostly I like running around maps and doing events.
I get a huge kick of getting into a map and running events from one end to the other, sometimes I do a whole region.
It doesn’t reward much but it piles up after a while and I have fun playing which is important to me.

GW2 changes the formula to make it easy for everyone to be well geared stat-wise. And make a pvp where no one has a statistical advantage over another. Then people complain they have to play the game to get a certain style. Do you realize that player retention partly depends on long term rewards?

There are other mmo’s that go even further in giving the player everything without player effort. You should try Wizards 101, you’ll probably feel more at home there.

Morrigan.2809:

I have just never thought it worth it to convert gems to gold, given how easy it is to come by gold and how expensive it is to convert gold to gems- done that a few times.
So if I want something that costs gems I just buy gems.

I understand. I guess it depends on perspective.

With the gem cost in gold continuing to rise, it’s getting cheaper and cheaper to just buy the gold. Currently, for the price of two mochas I can get the amount of gold it would take me eight to ten hours of farming to achieve. Seems pretty cheap, and I can continue on doing WvW or exploring zones for those ten hours and still get the items I want.

yLoon.5289:

OP Is like wanna get the LionHeart on Disc 1 in FFVIII.

Such a great game.

GuzziHero.2467:

Morrigan.2809:

As for ascended- it is an abomination and I will never go there- I value my sanity

I agree. My interest in GW2 took a noticeable dip when that came out.

The ascended weapons are kind of grindy, but not that bad unless you really hate crafting (which I kind of do). I just crafted my first ascended weapon and I’ve been very lazy and casual about it. All the trinkets so far are quite easy to get, even for alts. Even ascended back pieces have a gold option to bypass the fractal grinding.

yLoon.5289:

OP Is like wanna get the LionHeart on Disc 1 in FFVIII.

Considering that you can actually do that, I think the OP is more like “I wanna get Lionheart on Disc 1 without using Cards” or along those lines.

Everything that needs to be said here was pretty much said by Vayne.

“There are people who have time and money to spend on the game in high quantity, and people who don’t have this opportunities. So what I’m saying is: create a way to make possible even for this people to get those items. I’m not saying it must be easy, nor immediate, just not so hard or RNG or grindy like it is now.”

You’re missing one aspect of cosmetics. Rarity makes them valuable. If everyone in Lion’s Arch was wearing one you probably wouldn’t want it. You would take it for granted and want something else that was still rare instead. In fact you have already taken exotic items for granted, because they are easily available and everyone has them, and chosen to want rare cosmetics as well.

Things that requires skill are set for casuals.

Things that requires time are set for hardcores (some skins are not even measured in human years if someone wants to farm everything for himself… it would require him a couple of lifetimes to get).

Stooperdale.3560:

You’re missing one aspect of cosmetics. Rarity makes them valuable. If everyone in Lion’s Arch was wearing one you probably wouldn’t want it. You would take it for granted and want something else that was still rare instead.

Tell that to the Sylvari rent-a-cops wearing my godkitten 120g+ T3 armour! But seriously, there’s so many ways of personalizing your look in this game if you’re the type to put effort into it, even with the easily accessible gear.

As is there are too many items that are so inaccessible you virtually never see them.

Syrpharon.7491:

Now now, let’s all focus on the matter, gentlemen.

Please don’t exclude 40% or so if the MMORPG community. It’s rude.

Syrpharon.7491:

So we have casual players, or players who don’t want to or can’t farm, that want to get something very expensive. What can we do about it?
This is the impotence I’m talking about. You can’t get it without dedicating yourself to the game for a lot of time.

Actually you can. It’s very easy. Acquire gems by visiting a local or online retailer and purchasing a gem card, or use your credit card via the in game method. Then convert the gems to gold. Next use the gold to purchase materials or gear from the trading post.

Syrpharon.7491:

Unfortunately GW2 doesn’t give everyone equal possibilities. It may be that in terms of combat everyone can compete, but playing a MMORPG isn’t only about combat, it is also for the pleasure of creating a character like you want, both parameters and looks. And here we have an obvious gap.

I do agree that a good MMORPG isn’t solely based on combat and should be well rounded. However, I’m going to disagree on the opportunity portion here. Everyone has the same opportunity to make the same choices. You can choose to spend your time grinding away for hours to achieve the goal of your choice, or you can choose not to. You can choose to spend money to obtain said goal, or you can choose not to. The choice is yours to make.

This is much like real life. I want an egg and cheese bagel for breakfast. (goal)
Option 1: I can go to my kitchen, toast a bagel, cook an egg, and assemble the sandwich. —-—> mmmmm breakfast!
Option 2: There is a restaurant across the street. I can go to the restaurant, and purchase an egg and cheese bagel. —-—> mmmmm breakfast!
Option3: I do neither and decide to play on the forums. —-—-> hungry
(*Based on a true story. Maybe that why I’m cranky today. -_- )

Syrpharon.7491:

So, Anet, make these materials more frequent to get via different activities, but don’t think only about the farmers who can farm things per hours or about another RNG system.
I don’t know, maybe a new dungeon that once completed allows you to select a very small amount of rare materials to get. Something that gives you a reward for your effort that even casual players can afford, in a similar way you get ascended materials now at the end of a dungeon.

This would completely diminish the accomplishment of others. The reason certain materials and gear are so prized is because they are hard to get. If you take away the difficulty, then you also take away the value. The rarer items are a reward. A reward for working hard and/or spending money [read: supporting Anet]. I do not believe that should be taken away.

If I were to go to a college and say, “I think you should give me a doctorate because it’s not fair that I do not have the money or time to complete the program!” They would promptly escort me off campus while laughing.

Like all MMO’s it’s content is made for the majority of the community base. Anet yet has to figure out if they want to attract the hardcore players/farmers or the casual players/farmers. Both doesn’t work as we have seen and yet Anet managed to keep it at a minimum when it comes to the TP or gem store and makes it pretty effortless when it comes to in game content and gathering.

As a casual player most of you spend at least 2 hours in the game. If you want a mat and are unable to purchase it through tp due to the lack of gold then you have to gather it. The nodes are everywhere and it’s pretty simple to get a specific mat without spending a lot of time on that. I can see some of the OP’s concerns when it comes to specific game content, however I yet have to understand why a “casual” player would be unable to gather materials or making gold in the time they spend on the game.

As a casual player you have 4 options. 1) gather it yourself 2)donate money and get gems, convert them to ingame gold and play the tp. 3)place buy orders. There are plenty of people that throw their materials out at minimum cost. 3)set priorities when it comes to in game time. If you sit 2 hours in LA chatting you wont make gold.

Both options are not time consuming and can be done by both parties. I am always amazed that some players jump on the “I am a casual player” wagon and think everything is done by sitting around or thrown at them for free/cheap.

Casual is 2 hours a day?
I must be like…sloth level player.

You can’t get it without dedicating yourself to the game for a lot of time.

lol

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

ThiBash.5634:

As you can tell, I like the system as it is now…which is also why I still don’t get why Ascended gear had to be implemented.

Ascended Gear was implemented (if I am correct on this) for those of us without a spare 520 USD to drop on the Gem to Gold Conversion system so that we would have enough to buy a Legendary Weapon. They are essentially the Poor Man’s Legendary Weapons. They allow people to have the ability to compete on an even footing with those people who own Legendary Weapons in events such as World Vs. World, or High Level Fractals and Dungeons, without actually having to spend the massive amounts of money needed in order to buy a Legendary Weapon.

Unlike popular opinion, when compared to a person wielding a Legendary Weapon (especially in a WvW scenario) a simple Exotic Weapon is just not going to cut it.

What are you talking about? Before ascended crap, exotics had the same stats as legendary weapons,. so people already had the ability to compete on an even field against Legendary owners. The addition of ascended gear only raised the grind necessary to be competitive.

Its got nothing to do with casual or hardcore. What’s killing GW2 is the alt-unfriendliness. I explained this in great detail in this thread here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/1-Alt-Chars-2-Side-Kick-System

Mel.8769:

Syrpharon.7491:

Now now, let’s all focus on the matter, gentlemen.

Please don’t exclude 40% or so if the MMORPG community. It’s rude.

Syrpharon.7491:

So we have casual players, or players who don’t want to or can’t farm, that want to get something very expensive. What can we do about it?
This is the impotence I’m talking about. You can’t get it without dedicating yourself to the game for a lot of time.

Actually you can. It’s very easy. Acquire gems by visiting a local or online retailer and purchasing a gem card, or use your credit card via the in game method. Then convert the gems to gold. Next use the gold to purchase materials or gear from the trading post.

Syrpharon.7491:

Unfortunately GW2 doesn’t give everyone equal possibilities. It may be that in terms of combat everyone can compete, but playing a MMORPG isn’t only about combat, it is also for the pleasure of creating a character like you want, both parameters and looks. And here we have an obvious gap.

I do agree that a good MMORPG isn’t solely based on combat and should be well rounded. However, I’m going to disagree on the opportunity portion here. Everyone has the same opportunity to make the same choices. You can choose to spend your time grinding away for hours to achieve the goal of your choice, or you can choose not to. You can choose to spend money to obtain said goal, or you can choose not to. The choice is yours to make.

This is much like real life. I want an egg and cheese bagel for breakfast. (goal)
Option 1: I can go to my kitchen, toast a bagel, cook an egg, and assemble the sandwich. —-—> mmmmm breakfast!
Option 2: There is a restaurant across the street. I can go to the restaurant, and purchase an egg and cheese bagel. —-—> mmmmm breakfast!
Option3: I do neither and decide to play on the forums. —-—-> hungry
(*Based on a true story. Maybe that why I’m cranky today. -_- )

Syrpharon.7491:

So, Anet, make these materials more frequent to get via different activities, but don’t think only about the farmers who can farm things per hours or about another RNG system.
I don’t know, maybe a new dungeon that once completed allows you to select a very small amount of rare materials to get. Something that gives you a reward for your effort that even casual players can afford, in a similar way you get ascended materials now at the end of a dungeon.

This would completely diminish the accomplishment of others. The reason certain materials and gear are so prized is because they are hard to get. If you take away the difficulty, then you also take away the value. The rarer items are a reward. A reward for working hard and/or spending money [read: supporting Anet]. I do not believe that should be taken away.

If I were to go to a college and say, “I think you should give me a doctorate because it’s not fair that I do not have the money or time to complete the program!” They would promptly escort me off campus while laughing.

How is asking for rare rewards to be tied to skill rather than grind the same as asking for a free doctorate because you don’t have the money-time to acquire the skills/knowledge necessary for you to earn that doctorate?

OP, I do believe we still need to find the ideal middle ground between time invested and skill as far as rewards are concerned. We’re still talking about a mmorpg though, so we can’t completely get rid of the time-invested and luck factors. As long as it’s not overdone, those two factors actually contribute to making the game more enjoyable.

Devil’s advocate question: How casual does someone need to be before we ignore their feedback? If you only play an hour a week, should your opinion really carry any weight?

Ahlen.7591:

Devil’s advocate question: How casual does someone need to be before we ignore their feedback? If you only play an hour a week, should your opinion really carry any weight?

The same could be said for being too hardcore then. Both points of views are skewed. The amount of time someone dedicates to the game doesn’t make their concerns illegitimate; it simply means you have to take into consideration that their experience may not always reflect the experience of the majority of the player base. Sometimes it will, sometimes it won’t. :-] Sometimes only players who are not very familiar with a game are able to identify its issues and shake things up.

Vayne.8563:

Which would kill the game completely.

I believe most people need stuff to work for. It’s that simple. If someone gets everything they want, they stop playing the game…not everyone, but many people if not most. It happened to my son. He got his legendary and stopped playing. He came back for ascended weapons, got that and stopped playing again.

Aren’t you the one who’s always talking about how it is the victory of killing the champion that is in itself the reward? Now suddenly pixel rewards are a game killer if they are made too easy to obtain?

Ahlen.7591:

Devil’s advocate question: How casual does someone need to be before we ignore their feedback? If you only play an hour a week, should your opinion really carry any weight?

As far as I can tell, their money spends as well as the many-hours-per-day player’s does. I could as easily say that someone who spends less time playing is more likely to buy gems with RL money than someone who can buy gems with the gold they’re making in their extended play sessions, and thus they should be catered to more than the many-hours-per-day players.

Devil says, “Let’s not open either can of worms.”

Just give shiny options in store and shiny options in-game. Different skins. That way both groups are happy. Easy real-money obtained stuff from gem store or more difficult in-game stuff. I… want… Nightmare! and I want an Oaken helmet for which I have no Sylvari to fit yet. It’ll take me awhile though… I am hoping the new weapon skins are a sign of things to come

ok…

This is not the first thread concerning the have’s and the have not’s. I am absolutely sure it won’t be the last.

For purposes of this post, the term “casual” will be meant to group those with small amounts of time together, and not to mean that the group has no skills. I have seen many extremely skilled “casuals.”

Personally, I think everyone who has ever played the “old style” MMOs should take off their rose-colored glasses and remember the relentless grind for even minor upgrades. “casual players” didn’t exist much then, because at the time, all “casual” meant was that they didn’t have the time to do the grind, or do the raid that took 6 hours (or more) to get mediocre rewards that barely got them to the next level.

Some games gave you decent rewards, but in order to use them you had to be level (insert insane number here.) I remember one in particular that had 150 levels, but the “quests” that would level you ran out at level 65. Every level after that was a grind.

And for those of you who remember EQ1, once you left the “beginner” zone, it was go to A and kill B until you reach level C and then go to D, rinse and repeat.

As MMOs evolved, more rewards were given and less grind, but still there is grind in almost every game on the market.

So-called “casuals” cannot compete in any of them.

The biggest difference in THIS game is that people who do not have hours upon hours to play every day can still get decent gear and be competitive. One doesn’t absolutely NEED Ascended gear, or Legendary Weapons in order to play the game at level 80.

The grind is reserved for those who want that extra bit of style, or that extra 10% advantage in WvW. If you’re not willing to work (grind or buy) for it (even if it takes months) then you don’t deserve it. Period.

I refuse to “grind.” I play maybe an hour a day, with a bit more on the weekends. I can count on one hand the times I’ve run a dungeon, and I have never set foot in Fractals. I have full exotics on all my 80’s and I have a few nice things I have paid for. I love WvW, and I am one of the few forum denizens that seem to like the LS. I will be the first to say I am relatively casual (it took me 6 months to get my first level 80,) and I will also be the first to say that I don’t deserve an Ascended or Legendary because I am not willing to put in the time or effort it takes to get one.

One thing I won’t do is come to the forums and complain that player X has more shineys than I do because he has more time to play than I do. I can get those shineys too, but it will take me longer.

So what?

Ashabhi.1365:

ok…

This is not the first thread concerning the have’s and the have not’s. I am absolutely sure it won’t be the last.

For purposes of this post, the term “casual” will be meant to group those with small amounts of time together, and not to mean that the group has no skills. I have seen many extremely skilled “casuals.”

Personally, I think everyone who has ever played the “old style” MMOs should take off their rose-colored glasses and remember the relentless grind for even minor upgrades. “casual players” didn’t exist much then, because at the time, all “casual” meant was that they didn’t have the time to do the grind, or do the raid that took 6 hours (or more) to get mediocre rewards that barely got them to the next level.

Some games gave you decent rewards, but in order to use them you had to be level (insert insane number here.) I remember one in particular that had 150 levels, but the “quests” that would level you ran out at level 65. Every level after that was a grind.

And for those of you who remember EQ1, once you left the “beginner” zone, it was go to A and kill B until you reach level C and then go to D, rinse and repeat.

As MMOs evolved, more rewards were given and less grind, but still there is grind in almost every game on the market.

So-called “casuals” cannot compete in any of them.

The biggest difference in THIS game is that people who do not have hours upon hours to play every day can still get decent gear and be competitive. One doesn’t absolutely NEED Ascended gear, or Legendary Weapons in order to play the game at level 80.

The grind is reserved for those who want that extra bit of style, or that extra 10% advantage in WvW. If you’re not willing to work (grind or buy) for it (even if it takes months) then you don’t deserve it. Period.

I refuse to “grind.” I play maybe an hour a day, with a bit more on the weekends. I can count on one hand the times I’ve run a dungeon, and I have never set foot in Fractals. I have full exotics on all my 80’s and I have a few nice things I have paid for. I love WvW, and I am one of the few forum denizens that seem to like the LS. I will be the first to say I am relatively casual (it took me 6 months to get my first level 80,) and I will also be the first to say that I don’t deserve an Ascended or Legendary because I am not willing to put in the time or effort it takes to get one.

One thing I won’t do is come to the forums and complain that player X has more shineys than I do because he has more time to play than I do. I can get those shineys too, but it will take me longer.

So what?

Was going to wade in and present my thoughts…but this does it quite nicely.

Ashabhi.1365:

ok…

This is not the first thread concerning the have’s and the have not’s. I am absolutely sure it won’t be the last.

For purposes of this post, the term “casual” will be meant to group those with small amounts of time together, and not to mean that the group has no skills. I have seen many extremely skilled “casuals.”

Personally, I think everyone who has ever played the “old style” MMOs should take off their rose-colored glasses and remember the relentless grind for even minor upgrades. “casual players” didn’t exist much then, because at the time, all “casual” meant was that they didn’t have the time to do the grind, or do the raid that took 6 hours (or more) to get mediocre rewards that barely got them to the next level.

Some games gave you decent rewards, but in order to use them you had to be level (insert insane number here.) I remember one in particular that had 150 levels, but the “quests” that would level you ran out at level 65. Every level after that was a grind.

And for those of you who remember EQ1, once you left the “beginner” zone, it was go to A and kill B until you reach level C and then go to D, rinse and repeat.

As MMOs evolved, more rewards were given and less grind, but still there is grind in almost every game on the market.

So-called “casuals” cannot compete in any of them.

The biggest difference in THIS game is that people who do not have hours upon hours to play every day can still get decent gear and be competitive. One doesn’t absolutely NEED Ascended gear, or Legendary Weapons in order to play the game at level 80.

The grind is reserved for those who want that extra bit of style, or that extra 10% advantage in WvW. If you’re not willing to work (grind or buy) for it (even if it takes months) then you don’t deserve it. Period.

I refuse to “grind.” I play maybe an hour a day, with a bit more on the weekends. I can count on one hand the times I’ve run a dungeon, and I have never set foot in Fractals. I have full exotics on all my 80’s and I have a few nice things I have paid for. I love WvW, and I am one of the few forum denizens that seem to like the LS. I will be the first to say I am relatively casual (it took me 6 months to get my first level 80,) and I will also be the first to say that I don’t deserve an Ascended or Legendary because I am not willing to put in the time or effort it takes to get one.

One thing I won’t do is come to the forums and complain that player X has more shineys than I do because he has more time to play than I do. I can get those shineys too, but it will take me longer.

So what?

Couldn’t have said it better myself.. I have a fair amount of time to play and have some nice stuff (half a dozen mist weapons, foefires essence, a couple blc items) and while I realize that is indeed within my grasp, I also notice that there are people with a half a dozen legendaries as well which is indeed out of my grasp. It doesn’t mean they’re too hard to get or take too much time, it means that I just don’t have the time or effort required to invest in the game to get that… simple as that… they shouldn’t dumb down rewards for people just because they have less time to play than others, just like they shouldn’t pay employees more to compensate them for spending less time in the office than someone else or putting forth less work than someone else.