The incoming updates look promising.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Kaizer.7135

Kaizer.7135

I disliked where they were going with GW2 with all the zerg content and living story BS (which I still don’t like). But now it looks like they’re actually starting to listen to what some people have suggested.

Account wide Ascended gears, Legendaries, Dyes and WXP. A Wardrobe system, reset traits on the go (along with the introduction of NEW traits), no more repair costs, significant changes to guild rosters and finally, some real focus on sPvP.

I’m glad this is happening and I’m definitely going to be coming back to GW2, these kind of updates would definitely be what brings others that have left GW2 to return with renewed hope and more money for gems.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: cesmode.4257

cesmode.4257

Sadly, I unintalled GW2 this weekend. Im spent on it. Things like the wardrobe I posted in the suggestions forum a month after release. Here we are 1.5 years later, and its finally coming. No Scav hunt. Still a focus on LS and zerg content. No love for dungeons(what happened to revamping the bosses in dungeons…just did AC and forgot about it? Oh, right, the living story).

No, Im done. After playing Wildstar the past two weekends and with the awsome updates to Diablo 3/expansion, I have more than enough to fill my time than waiting around 6 months, 9 months, year, 1.5 years for arenanet to breathe life into this game.

Big hype, huge letdown. This game could have been so much more if it focused on exploration, real world changes when run of the mill dynamic events succeed or fail, etc.

Karma is as abundant as air, and as useless as the Kardashians.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Nage.1520

Nage.1520

I think the update is a good start too but as cesmode has pointed out a lot of this stuff has been a very long time in coming. Some people aren’t patient enough to let a game develop at its own pace, which is what all MMOs need.

I’m sure that in other new MMOs there’ll be a ton of problems after launch (there always is) and I’m sure it’ll take years to get those problems fixed.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Flytrap.8075

Flytrap.8075

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

Especially bobblehead jokes.

;)

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The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

Especially bobblehead jokes.

At least the devs still have humor….. considering how the players treat them.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Teratus.2859

Teratus.2859

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

People must take into account that unlike more traditional MMO’s Gw2 does not rake in a colossal sum of cash every month thus allowed gigantic development teams to work the way the do

its simply a trade off that we have to live with

I much prefer to play Guildwars 2 and wait for these kind of improvements instead of being forced to pay a monthly subscription fee and get them sooner

at least I wont have my game rights removed when I can’t afford a monthly sub that one week

What the problem really is, is simply people feel too entitled and ask for too much in too short a time frame
Guild wars 2 gives you hell of a lot for a one time purchase MMO

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

People must take into account that unlike more traditional MMO’s Gw2 does not rake in a colossal sum of cash every month thus allowed gigantic development teams to work the way the do

its simply a trade off that we have to live with

I much prefer to play Guildwars 2 and wait for these kind of improvements instead of being forced to pay a monthly subscription fee and get them sooner

at least I wont have my game rights removed when I can’t afford a monthly sub that one week

What the problem really is, is simply people feel too entitled and ask for too much in too short a time frame
Guild wars 2 gives you hell of a lot for a one time purchase MMO

Part of it might be that people just don’t understand the effort involved for creating something as large as a game. Development is a long process by itself, for just simple programs. Now add in all the graphics, voice acting, all the tiny components that have to work fluidly together. It’s a huge complex machine to try to choreograph, but people just don’t understand the effort involved in that. Nor do they want to sadly. If more had a better understand, maybe they’d be less kitteny.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Flytrap.8075

Flytrap.8075

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

Especially bobblehead jokes.

At least the devs still have humor….. considering how the players treat them.

That was my point.

This was a hilarious change made in good spirits and the playerbase is getting so worked up over it. People take video games too seriously.

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Posted by: Bread.7516

Bread.7516

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

Well, being patient towards a game might hold true with games which are advertised as an early access title, but for complete titles some companies just push it too far.

Games aren’t made like they are used to, only a few companies test and polish their game properly. Basically someone somewhere pushed the game before it was ready.

Building games takes years so they should have taken the time needed to polish it properly than release it half baked.

(edited by Bread.7516)

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

Especially bobblehead jokes.

At least the devs still have humor….. considering how the players treat them.

That was my point.

This was a hilarious change made in good spirits and the playerbase is getting so worked up over it. People take video games too seriously.

/Agree

The uproar over this very minor prank is as hilarious as it is extremely saddening. People just don’t know how to take a joke anymore.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Schizo.1375

Schizo.1375

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

Well, being patient towards a game might hold true with games which are advertised as an early access title, but for complete titles some companies just push it too far.

Games aren’t made like they are used to, only a few companies test and polish their game properly. Basically someone somewhere pushed the game before it was ready.

Building games takes years so they should have taken the time needed to polish it properly than release it half baked.

I would love an example of an MMO that was released without problems.

The reason for releasing before it is polished is because at some point they have to start making money. Development costs are high and initial funds don’t last forever. A company, for MMOs specifically, would collapse long before releasing a polished game.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

Well, being patient towards a game might hold true with games which are advertised as an early access title, but for complete titles some companies just push it too far.

Games aren’t made like they are used to, only a few companies test and polish their game properly. Basically someone somewhere pushed the game before it was ready.

Building games takes years so they should have taken the time needed to polish it properly than release it half baked.

I would love an example of an MMO that was released without problems.

The reason for releasing before it is polished is because at some point they have to start making money. Development costs are high and initial funds don’t last forever. A company, for MMOs specifically, would collapse long before releasing a polished game.

^ What he said.

In order to make money they have to find a balance between playability and polish. QoL and other niceties tend to get put on a backlog for later work, while things like system functionality take precedence. Beyond that, even with the best testing team, not all bugs or exploits can be caught. The human brain does have limitations in this regard. Someone, somewhere is going to come up with something that wasn’t covered in the testing documents. (I’ve seen some of the ones for the testers on my team, and O.M.G they are huuuuuuuuuge).

It is practically impossible to release any software in a completely bug free state.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Bread.7516

Bread.7516

Im not saying bug-free. Even when the internet wasn’t very popular, games were not bug-free. Polish is not the same as being bug-free. As you say, it’s impossible and should not even be talked about because only an idiot would assume any software is completely rid of bugs.

The reason for releasing before it is polished is because at some point they have to start making money. Development costs are high and initial funds don’t last forever. A company, for MMOs specifically, would collapse long before releasing a polished game.

Yet somehow companies are still crunching out well-polished games.

Also i don’t see it as “mmo” that’s not a real genre (it’s like saying co-op is a genre), i see games as games; being an mmo is no excuse.

Even if the functional requirements are met, that doesn’t mean it is ready for the consumers. It needed more time to incubate, and ill say it again someone somewhere pushed the game before it was ready.

It is a matter of perspective in a sense since creating games is an art-form, and in my perspective the level of polish for games these days are declining and only a handful of companies do it right. Anet is not one of them anymore.

(edited by Bread.7516)

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

Im not saying bug-free. Even when the internet wasn’t very popular, games were not bug-free. Polish is not the same as being bug-free.

Also i don’t see it as “mmo” that’s not a real genre (it’s like saying co-op is a genre), i see games as games.

It needed more time to incubate, and ill say it again someone somewhere pushed the game before it was ready.

Many users lump polish into the bug category. An icon is not the right shade of a specific color, for example. Doesn’t matter that it’s functional, it’s just not the right color.

Polish takes a back seat to functionality. I see this every day in my own job. We have more than 50 items in our ‘backlog’ that are just ‘polish’ type stuff – adjust a color, adjust a scale, etc etc. Whats more important is that a tool functions as it is intended to function, so people can use it.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Nage.1520

Nage.1520

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

Well, being patient towards a game might hold true with games which are advertised as an early access title, but for complete titles some companies just push it too far.

Games aren’t made like they are used to, only a few companies test and polish their game properly. Basically someone somewhere pushed the game before it was ready.

Building games takes years so they should have taken the time needed to polish it properly than release it half baked.

Real life doesn’t work this way. I’m guessing 9 out of every 10 MMOs launched too early. That’s because projects tend to run over both budget and time. That means that eventually you run out of money. You have to launch to recap some of the years you’ve spent paying people to work.

This game was in development for five years. During that time rent and utilities were paid, salaries were paid, but the money from Guild Wars 1, Anet’s only other product wasn’t huge. So they had to make a preorder.

They never gave a release date. They wanted to wait longer, but people got impatient and started complaining, even though when they made the preorder Anet refused to give any release date.

They couldn’t have kept developing forever without creating bad blood. People said, and anyone around then will remember, I don’t CARE if it’s ready I just want to play it. This wasn’t just like one or two people. Forums were filled with people who didn’t want to wait.

So Anet released the game. That’s the reality. They might have been better off holding off on release, but then a different group of people would have been upset.

There really are no easy answered here.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Bread.7516

Bread.7516

Polish takes a back seat to functionality. I see this every day in my own job. We have more than 50 items in our ‘backlog’ that are just ‘polish’ type stuff – adjust a color, adjust a scale, etc etc. Whats more important is that a tool functions as it is intended to function, so people can use it.

I agree functional requirements do take precedence, but doesn’t mean that the product is ready to be released.

Basically im just arguing standards and their decline in recent times.

anyway i edited previous post.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

Polish takes a back seat to functionality. I see this every day in my own job. We have more than 50 items in our ‘backlog’ that are just ‘polish’ type stuff – adjust a color, adjust a scale, etc etc. Whats more important is that a tool functions as it is intended to function, so people can use it.

I agree functional requirements do take precedence, but doesn’t mean that the product is ready to be released.

Basically im just arguing standards and their decline in recent times.

anyway i edited previous post.

Conversely just because it’s not 100% polished or doesn’t hace all the perfect QoL features doesn’t mean that it’s not. They have to launch at some point because otherwise they never would. There is always that ‘one more’ thing that they could add. One more thing that needs touching. One more convenience they could add. It’s a never ending process. Doesn’t necessarily mean they lowered their standards. Of course, they may not have had a choice either. Sometimes parent companies set hard deadlines that simply have to be met. Sometimes the people making those calls have absolutely no understanding of the development, but you have to work with what you got.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Bread.7516

Bread.7516

Real life doesn’t work this way. I’m guessing 9 out of every 10 MMOs launched too early. That’s because projects tend to run over both budget and time. That means that eventually you run out of money. You have to launch to recap some of the years you’ve spent paying people to work.

There really are no easy answered here.

Real life is that some companies are able to pull off a project on a larger scale, and some can’t. There is no easy answer of course but when starting a project, one thing you never want to do is biting more than what you can chew.

Anet made a brand that is Guild Wars; it set a standard to that brand. It made another product promising it to be on a larger scale. For the sake of argument let’s say this product failed (that’s how the people who negatively see it believe). From the consumer’s perspective do you think they care if a company made ends meet or do they care more about what product they have on their hands? This is to give you an understanding of what people think when they express disappointment in the game.

Whether it was a good business decision or not is a different story and it is mainly about profit, potential gains and sustainability.

(edited by Bread.7516)

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Posted by: Grimwolf.7163

Grimwolf.7163

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

No, but GW2 was built over a massive 5 or so years, after having learned many lessons of what was or was not needed from GW1 already, during which they completely halted development on their other game GW1. And they actually managed to deliberately avoid many of the better features already established and refined in GW1, only to decide they really should have added them a year and a half later.
Like free build changing and functional costumes (town clothes). We still don’t have guild halls, GvG, or sub/multi classes which were in GW1 from the start. There’s also no build saving which they realized was necessary after release way back in GW1.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

No, but GW2 was built over a massive 5 or so years, after having learned many lessons of what was or was not needed from GW1 already, during which they completely halted development on their other game GW1. And they actually managed to deliberately avoid many of the better features already established and refined in GW1, only to decide they really should have added them a year and a half later.
Like free build changing and functional costumes (town clothes). We still don’t have guild halls, GvG, or sub/multi classes which were in GW1 from the start. There’s also no build saving which they realized was necessary after release way back in GW1.

I’m sure a decent chunk of that 5 years entailed the overhaul and modification of the game engine. That’s no tiny piece of work.

Why the made some of the design decisions they did, only they know. Considering how ‘lucrative’ GW1 was, perhaps they felt GW2 needed the trait reset gold sink. Obviously they don’t feel that way now. It is not uncommon for these things to change as time progresses.

Perhaps they couldn’t implement the costume feature from GW1 the same way in GW2… the engine is different, the platform is different, the codebase is a different monster. I have similar issues working on the various components of the application I help to maintain. They are all pieces of the same larger puzzle, but what you can implement 1 way in 1 module simply doesn’t work in another. It should but due to something somewhere it doesn’t, so you have to work around it.

A lot of the things we liked in GW1 weren’t added until much later in the game’s life span, due to simply not knowing how to make it work. Based on comments the devs have made, a lot of the same issues arise here with GW2. Just because it worked one way for one, doesn’t mean it will necessarily work the same way here. They have a lot of things on their ‘to do’ list that they want to implement. Several of which were things we liked or asked for in GW1. They just haven’t been able to do it all yet for a myriad of reasons.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Nage.1520

Nage.1520

Real life doesn’t work this way. I’m guessing 9 out of every 10 MMOs launched too early. That’s because projects tend to run over both budget and time. That means that eventually you run out of money. You have to launch to recap some of the years you’ve spent paying people to work.

There really are no easy answered here.

Real life is that some companies are able to pull off a project on a larger scale, and some can’t. There is no easy answer of course but when starting a project, one thing you never want to do is biting more than what you can chew.

Anet made a brand that is Guild Wars; it set a standard to that brand. It made another product promising it to be on a larger scale. For the sake of argument let’s say this product failed (that’s how the people who negatively see it believe). From the consumer’s perspective do you think they care if a company made ends meet or do they care more about what product they have on their hands? This is to give you an understanding of what people think when they express disappointment in the game.

Whether it was a good business decision or not is a different story and it is mainly about profit, potential gains and sustainability.

From a consumer point of view, consumers learn what is and isn’t realistic. How many MMOs came out polished with all the features they’re supposed to have? WoW? Nope. Rift? Nope. Guild Wars 2? Nope. SWToR? Nope.

I can’t name a single MMO that had every feature. WoW, at launch, was down almost as often as it was up. There were glaring errors for the first couple of years, even though it was a fun game.

Warhammer, Age of Conan, Lotro, DDO, AIon all launched with a raft of bugs. Maybe if one company gets it right and launches without a raft of bugs, missing features and problems, you’d have a point. But none of them have. Not one.

So a consumer can either not play MMOs, not play MMOs when they come out, or learn the industry and realize why things are the way they are.

Every MMORPG forum looks like every other MMORPG forum. People complain about missing features, about balance, about bugs, about greed, about pay to win. They all have very similar threads.

You’d have more of a point if other games launched ready, but none of them did. There are games like Rift which had a great launch. But it was a pitifully small world that I was done with in a couple of months, with nothing left to do but collect sparklies.

A game can either be small and relatively bug free (and even in Rifts case it was still missing features and had a horrible security bug) or it can be large and ambitious but it will need to be built while people play.

I don’t believe there’s a middle ground.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: bump.2156

bump.2156

Honestly I love what they did with GW2. I dont PVP, sometimes WvW, I mostly grind when I get on. Same as what I did on GW1. I had kitten monk and would just go and grind with guildies till the sun came up. I think they have made a great progression from what it was to what it is now, and like a baby it needs time to grow and develop. Once the patch comes out, I believe the doubters will see the light and welcome the change. I say bring it on lets see what the devs can come up with..

Bumpin Mumpins, Poison Mumps, Bumpassin, Olivia Bumps
Henge Of Denravi
Grinding is so much better when the kitten is crying

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

I’m still hoping we get Guild Halls. Please anet make it so!!

Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors

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Posted by: Bread.7516

Bread.7516

A game can either be small and relatively bug free (and even in Rifts case it was still missing features and had a horrible security bug) or it can be large and ambitious but it will need to be built while people play.

I don’t believe there’s a middle ground.

As i said, mmo is not a genre there is only the scale of a project. Just because your peers are garbage doesn’t mean you also have to be garbage.

Industry disruptor – across many industries they keep popping up, because apparently they keep proving people who believe “there is no middle ground” wrong.

People are mainly arguing a decline of standards from gw1 to gw2. Gw1 wasn’t fully featured or bug-free during release, but it was done right.

also, all your examples? all recent games – and again i have to repeat games these days are released “unfinished” except for a few.

(edited by Bread.7516)

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Posted by: Nage.1520

Nage.1520

A game can either be small and relatively bug free (and even in Rifts case it was still missing features and had a horrible security bug) or it can be large and ambitious but it will need to be built while people play.

I don’t believe there’s a middle ground.

As i said, mmo is not a genre there is only the scale of a project. Just because your peers are garbage doesn’t mean you also have to be garbage.

Industry disruptor – across many industries they keep popping up, because apparently they keep proving people who believe “there is no middle ground” wrong.

People are mainly arguing a decline of standards from gw1 to gw2. Gw1 wasn’t fully featured or bug-free during release, but it was done right.

also, all your examples? all recent games – and again i have to repeat games these days are released “unfinished” except for a few.

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO. So comparing it to MMOs (which are larger and more complex) is pointless.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Flytrap.8075

Flytrap.8075

A game can either be small and relatively bug free (and even in Rifts case it was still missing features and had a horrible security bug) or it can be large and ambitious but it will need to be built while people play.

I don’t believe there’s a middle ground.

As i said, mmo is not a genre there is only the scale of a project. Just because your peers are garbage doesn’t mean you also have to be garbage.

Industry disruptor – across many industries they keep popping up, because apparently they keep proving people who believe “there is no middle ground” wrong.

People are mainly arguing a decline of standards from gw1 to gw2. Gw1 wasn’t fully featured or bug-free during release, but it was done right.

also, all your examples? all recent games – and again i have to repeat games these days are released “unfinished” except for a few.

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO. So comparing it to MMOs (which are larger and more complex) is pointless.

Saying that GW1 wasn’t an MMO is extremely nit-picky.

Fort Aspenwood | [Bags]

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Posted by: Doggie.3184

Doggie.3184

Sadly, I unintalled GW2 this weekend. Im spent on it. Things like the wardrobe I posted in the suggestions forum a month after release. Here we are 1.5 years later, and its finally coming. No Scav hunt. Still a focus on LS and zerg content. No love for dungeons(what happened to revamping the bosses in dungeons…just did AC and forgot about it? Oh, right, the living story).

No, Im done. After playing Wildstar the past two weekends and with the awsome updates to Diablo 3/expansion, I have more than enough to fill my time than waiting around 6 months, 9 months, year, 1.5 years for arenanet to breathe life into this game.

Big hype, huge letdown. This game could have been so much more if it focused on exploration, real world changes when run of the mill dynamic events succeed or fail, etc.

Can’t help but say this but seriously calling GW2 a letdown when you’re playing Diablo 3? That Xpan means nothing.

| Fort Aspenwood (NA): Sylvari Daredevil Thief Main: All Classes 80. |
Please Remove/Fix Thief Trait: “Last Refuge.”
“Hard to Catch” is a Horrible and Useless Trait. Fixed 6/23/15. Praise Dwayna.

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Posted by: Nage.1520

Nage.1520

A game can either be small and relatively bug free (and even in Rifts case it was still missing features and had a horrible security bug) or it can be large and ambitious but it will need to be built while people play.

I don’t believe there’s a middle ground.

As i said, mmo is not a genre there is only the scale of a project. Just because your peers are garbage doesn’t mean you also have to be garbage.

Industry disruptor – across many industries they keep popping up, because apparently they keep proving people who believe “there is no middle ground” wrong.

People are mainly arguing a decline of standards from gw1 to gw2. Gw1 wasn’t fully featured or bug-free during release, but it was done right.

also, all your examples? all recent games – and again i have to repeat games these days are released “unfinished” except for a few.

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO. So comparing it to MMOs (which are larger and more complex) is pointless.

Saying that GW1 wasn’t an MMO is extremely nit-picky.

That’s not the case. It’s far easier to control an instanced environment than to control an open one. With hundreds of people at one time you have a completely different type of game, with completely different types of problems. Guild Wars 1 had issues, but most of the game was played in areas where Anet had to deal with no more than 24 people at max in those zones. In most cases not nearly that many.

The very fact that the game is larger and far more ambitious makes it harder to manage. The amount of money that went into making the game makes it harder to wait to release.

Comparing an eight year old non-MMO, to a brand new MMO (with the greater costs reflected in the production of it) make it a comparison that can’t be made in good faith.

It’s like saying my old calculator never had the bugs my computer has. Well yeah, because one is a calculator and one is a computer. The more you try to do, the more you’re likely to have problems with.

Hell just the addition of a Z axis makes this game more ambitious. A trading post makes it more ambitious. Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO. It didn’t have the same budget. It didn’t have the same expectations. And it launched into a game genre scene that was very different from what it is today.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Mirta.5029

Mirta.5029

As i said, mmo is not a genre

No, but MMORPG is.

Just because your peers are garbage doesn’t mean you also have to be garbage.

That’s the same as saying “if your peers did not manage to make a car that goes 700 miles an hour, it doesn’t mean that you should have realistic expectations! I want my 700 mile an hour card, kitten!”

also, all your examples? all recent games – and again i have to repeat games these days are released “unfinished” except for a few.

Same for old games. There are still games from the 90s that can not be finished due to a bug in one or another level. Game design is a really difficult thing.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Pwnzor.5682

Pwnzor.5682

btw, is it 100% shure that ascended trinkets will be account bound to? rings amu’s etc.?

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

btw, is it 100% shure that ascended trinkets will be account bound to? rings amu’s etc.?

I don’t recall anything definitive confirmed by a dev. They simply use the term ‘gear’ so most of us are assuming trinkets are part of that , but we don’t know.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Wolfheart.1938

Wolfheart.1938

I’m sorry but when I look back at GW1 development cycle and compare it to GW2’s I find your posts, Lanfear, apologetic, rather than finding myself impatient.

“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

I’m sorry but when I look back at GW1 development cycle and compare it to GW2’s I find your posts, Lanfear, apologetic, rather than finding myself impatient.

shrug

I don’t see myself apologizing for anything. Simply pointing out that development isn’t as simple kitten many seem to think it is. I was simply going to explanatory.

GW1 and GW2 are vastly different animals. Development for them is going to be different.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Nage.1520

Nage.1520

I’m sorry but when I look back at GW1 development cycle and compare it to GW2’s I find your posts, Lanfear, apologetic, rather than finding myself impatient.

I’m not sure why some people aren’t willing to acknowledge that this game is a bigger, more ambitious, more expensive and more complex project that Guild Wars 1 was. There really is no comparison.

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a Z axis, a cash shop, an open world, underwater combat, multiple starter zones (for a single game). It didn’t have five races. It didn’t have different personal stories for different characters (everyone who played Prophecies had the same story and did the same missions. The only difference was a few profession quests, which were minor anyway).

Do you realize how many quests Prophecies had at launch? You should look it up some time. About the same number as Guild Wars 2 has hearts. But Guild Wars 2 launched with 1500 dynamic events. It didn’t have 25 missions, but it has 50 missions roughly per personal story, some of which are different from others.

Even if you add in Factions AND Nightfall, there’s still more content in Guild Wars 2. And the problems with having a format like WvW alone is it’s own special complication for developers.

Guild Wars 1 was a great game for its time, but face it. WIth no marketplace, no z-axis and no open world, it was a far easier game to manage.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Elbegast.6970

Elbegast.6970

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

I’ve been patient for a year and a half. My patience is wearing thin.

And regarding Rome, it may not have been built in a day but it sure did fall in one…..August 24th of 410 AD.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Flytrap.8075

Flytrap.8075

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

I’ve been patient for a year and a half. My patience is wearing thin.

And regarding Rome, it may not have been built in a day but it sure did fall in one…..August 24th of 410 AD.

Shots fired.

Fort Aspenwood | [Bags]

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

I’ve been patient for a year and a half. My patience is wearing thin.

And regarding Rome, it may not have been built in a day but it sure did fall in one…..August 24th of 410 AD. I only wish I could have seen the look on Honorius’ face as King Alaric rode in through the city gates.

It’s not like the haven’t done anything in that year and a half. Gosh, you make it sound like they have been sitting on their thumbs, telling the players to kitten off they don’t give a kitten, when that’s completely not the case. They cannot; however, please everyone. So your patience is at its end, fine..move on. Its not like the exact same issues don’t exist in pretty much every other game too.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Wolfheart.1938

Wolfheart.1938

I’ll cut the chase short because my english isn’t that great and I’m short on time.

Some people feel like GW2 hasn’t been adding enough meat. When you come in and tell those people (in this case cesmode, but I could be in his place as well) that content takes time and people are impatient you are being apologetic (or am I using this word wrong?) and avoiding the elephant in the room, the living story.

Please don’t tell me that I’m asking too much or being impatient when we both know that weren’t most of Arenanet manpower focused on LS we could have had plenty of “expansion-like” stuff like we had in GW1.

@Nage: GW2 is much bigger then GW1. So is the number of people that worked/are working on it. Moot point.

Also hello Chris, I love you <3

“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”

(edited by Wolfheart.1938)

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Nage.1520

Nage.1520

I’ll cut the chase short because my english isn’t that great and I’m short on time.

Some people feel like GW2 hasn’t been adding enough meat. When you come in and tell those people (in this case cesmode, but I could be in his place as well) that content takes time and people are impatient you are being apologetic (or am I using this word wrong?) and avoiding the elephant in the room, the living story.

Please don’t tell me that I’m asking too much or being impatient when we both know that weren’t most of Arenanet manpower focused on LS we could have had plenty of “expansion-like” stuff like we had in GW1.

@Nage: GW2 is much bigger then GW1. So is the number of people that worked/are working on it. Moot point.

Also hello Chris, I love you <3

More people doesn’t mean faster work. It never has. It never will.

Bigger programs are exponentially harder to manage than smaller ones. That’s all there is to it. Guild Wars 2 is harder to manage, even with more people (which doesn’t necessarily make it easier to manage anyway but that’s another story).

It’s easier to manager a smaller project with fewer employees than a bigger project with more employees. A LOT easier.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

I’ll cut the chase short because my english isn’t that great and I’m short on time.

Some people feel like GW2 hasn’t been adding enough meat. When you come in and tell those people (in this case cesmode, but I could be in his place as well) that content takes time and people are impatient you are being apologetic (or am I using this word wrong?) and avoiding the elephant in the room, the living story.

Please don’t tell me that I’m asking too much or being impatient when we both know that weren’t most of Arenanet manpower focused on LS we could have had plenty of “expansion-like” stuff like we had in GW1.

@Nage: GW2 is much bigger then GW1. So is the number of people that worked/are working on it. Moot point.

Also hello Chris, I love you <3

snort Elephant in the room. Living Story needs work, yes. I’ll give you that; however it’s no where near as awful as people like to make it out to be. Like all ‘new’ techniques and development, it is still in it’s infancy. It will take time to perfect and grow. At least they tried to give us something unique.

Yes, content takes time. It took WoW two years to come out with it’s first expansion. Other MMOs take between 1.5 and 2 years to launch theirs as well. The exception to that was GW1, which many discount as a MMO. GW1 was also a smaller project, and had 2 distinctly separate teams in rotation in order to manage the releases that they did. Releases creates (with the exception of EotN) as stand alone games. Thus requiring less interactive components tying the various campaigns together. Fewer lines of code to have to deal with.

As I stated previously, GW2 is a different animal. It does not work the same way. Beyond that, the closing of LS1 showed us the awaking of a new dragon. Anet has distinctly stated that the dragons fall under the ‘expansion’ type content and ‘personal story’ content. With the upcoming dragon we should see content things like new zones, new missions, and potentially new dungeons. We’ll see.

Most of Arenanets manpower is focused on LS? I’d like you to back that up with some sources. But people will believe whatever they choose to believe sourced or otherwise, so I suppose, carry on.

Yes, you are using apologetic wrong, considering I’m not apologizing for anet. Pointing out discrepancies in what people think or assume happens vs what actually happens isn’t apologizing. It’s informing.

Some people feel there hasn’t been enough content. Others feel there has been some, but would have liked more. Still others feel there was just enough. And others still feel it was too much. No matter what they do, no matter what approach they take, they cannot please everyone. The best thing they can do is make their plans and move forward with them, even if it means stepping on some people’s toes. If you don’t like their choices, there are plenty of other games out there.

@Nage, is it starting to feel like we’re trying to bail water out of the Titanic here?

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

(edited by LanfearShadowflame.3189)

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Wolfheart.1938

Wolfheart.1938

@Nage:
Oh really? Then why would you hire 2 programmers instead of 1, if having 2 doesn’t mean faster/more work?

I know some of the manpower “gets lost” on the management and coordination side. I know that if 1 guy can complete a task in 24 hours, having 24 guys on the same job doesn’t necessarily mean that the task will be completed in 1 hour, but you get my point. Nobody is saying that they don’t work enough, in fact I think they work too much. Many just don’t like what their managers makes them work on.

These mental gymnastic exercises are getting tiring.

“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: milo.6942

milo.6942

There are entire categories of core features that are missing or underdeveloped. Post-80 content, lasting non-ls content, attitude and development pace for pvp, teamplay mechanics, meaningful guild activities, CPU optimization, UI customization, skills, weapons, classes, races, non-gemstore armors and so on. If you read recent glassdoor reviews by employees (both the good and the bad ones), the general sentiment is that the company is stretched too thin trying to accommodate the frantic LS pace.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

There are entire categories of core features that are missing or underdeveloped. Post-80 content, lasting non-ls content, attitude and development pace for pvp, teamplay mechanics, meaningful guild activities, CPU optimization, UI customization, skills, weapons, classes, races, non-gemstore armors and so on. If you read recent glassdoor reviews by employees (both the good and the bad ones), the general sentiment is that the company is stretched too thin trying to accommodate the frantic LS pace.

Interesting, I just read through 5 pages (42 reviews) on glassdoor from current and past employees. Nothing about the LS specifically. Overworked, yes, but that doesn’t mean it’s due to the LS though. Considering the variety of other stuff on their plate (just consider all the changes for the current feature patch), I can easily see how they might end up feeling overworked.

Edit: Admittedly a lot of the cons people list are things I’ve come across in every dev position I’ve had. Nice to know they exist everywhere to some extent. XD

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

(edited by LanfearShadowflame.3189)

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Mirta.5029

Mirta.5029

There are entire categories of core features that are missing or underdeveloped. Post-80 content, lasting non-ls content, teamplay mechanics, meaningful guild activities, CPU optimization, UI customization, skills, weapons, classes, races, non-gemstore armors and so on. If you read recent glassdoor reviews by employees (both the good and the bad ones), the general sentiment is that the company is stretched too thin trying to accommodate the frantic LS pace.

Post 80 content? Have as much as any other MMO
teamplay and meaningful guild activities? That’s there
The game is always being optimized, hence we’re able to not have culling anymore
UI customization is not something every MMO allows. In fact most don’t.
weapons, classes, races, etc are just fine. We have those. We have non gemstore armours too.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

We have non gemstore armours too.

Admittedly, I’d be game for a few more of those.

I’d like it if they did like a 1:1 ratio for armors. 1 set in the gemstore, then 1 set obtainable thru game play. Keep it interesting.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Cactus.2710

Cactus.2710

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

People must take into account that unlike more traditional MMO’s Gw2 does not rake in a colossal sum of cash every month thus allowed gigantic development teams to work the way the do

its simply a trade off that we have to live with

I much prefer to play Guildwars 2 and wait for these kind of improvements instead of being forced to pay a monthly subscription fee and get them sooner

at least I wont have my game rights removed when I can’t afford a monthly sub that one week

What the problem really is, is simply people feel too entitled and ask for too much in too short a time frame
Guild wars 2 gives you hell of a lot for a one time purchase MMO

Part of it might be that people just don’t understand the effort involved for creating something as large as a game. Development is a long process by itself, for just simple programs. Now add in all the graphics, voice acting, all the tiny components that have to work fluidly together. It’s a huge complex machine to try to choreograph, but people just don’t understand the effort involved in that. Nor do they want to sadly. If more had a better understand, maybe they’d be less kitteny.

Except that the biggest problems with GW2 didn’t require time to fix as much they required better decisions up front and the simple willingness to learn from MMO’s that preceded it. ANet could and should have fixed issues and implemented things that were pointed out in forum posts within the first couple of months after launch … some even during beta. The problem here isn’t the time it took to address those shortcomings in various areas of the game … it’s the conscious decision by ANet to focus resources on other things, in many cases on things players repeatedly said they didn’t want.

GW2 could have been the 2,000 pound gorilla of the MMO world if ANet had managed it differently.

D/D Thief who prefers mobility to stealth … so yeah, I die a lot
Stormbluff Isle [AoD]

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Nage.1520

Nage.1520

@Nage:
Oh really? Then why would you hire 2 programmers instead of 1, if having 2 doesn’t mean faster/more work?

I know some of the manpower “gets lost” on the management and coordination side. I know that if 1 guy can complete a task in 24 hours, having 24 guys on the same job doesn’t necessarily mean that the task will be completed in 1 hour, but you get my point. Nobody is saying that they don’t work enough, in fact I think they work too much. Many just don’t like what their managers makes them work on.

These mental gymnastic exercises are getting tiring.

Look I’m not the one trying to compare an eight year old non-MMO with a brand new MMO. It’s a pointless exercise, no matter who’s doing it. It doesn’t matter if it’s a sequel. Lord of the Rings followed onto the Hobbit, but as literary works they have very little in common. The same is true of Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2.

The complexity of a bigger program requires far more management. It’s not like other MMOs have forums with different types of complaints. No matter where you go, it’s always the same. Some people don’t like some stuff and other people do. That’s all it is.

So someone comes and posts that he thinks the updates look promising and someone else has to come in and say he’s uninstalled (when leaving posts are against forum rules).

It’s not like more than 50% of the threads on these forums aren’t complaints. There are plenty of those. But many of those complaints aren’t realistic from my point of view.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: Mirta.5029

Mirta.5029

The problem here isn’t the time it took to address those shortcomings in various areas of the game … it’s the conscious decision by ANet to focus resources on other things, in many cases on things players repeatedly said they didn’t want..

Did you read the programmer post about how they were working on the wardrobe since the wallet? As a person experienced in programming I can safely say that things take time.

The incoming updates look promising.

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Posted by: milo.6942

milo.6942

There are entire categories of core features that are missing or underdeveloped. Post-80 content, lasting non-ls content, attitude and development pace for pvp, teamplay mechanics, meaningful guild activities, CPU optimization, UI customization, skills, weapons, classes, races, non-gemstore armors and so on. If you read recent glassdoor reviews by employees (both the good and the bad ones), the general sentiment is that the company is stretched too thin trying to accommodate the frantic LS pace.

Interesting, I just read through 5 pages (42 reviews) on glassdoor from current and past employees. Nothing about the LS specifically. Overworked, yes, but that doesn’t mean it’s due to the LS though. Considering the variety of other stuff on their plate (just consider all the changes for the current feature patch), I can easily see how they might end up feeling overworked.

Edit: Admittedly a lot of the cons people list are things I’ve come across in every dev position I’ve had. Nice to know they exist everywhere to some extent. XD

“The bi-weekly cadence has been tried and failed. It is killing your business.”

From one of the most recent ones, but I don’t want to turn this into a glassdoor thread, even in that same review he goes on to say they are “maintaining” so it is not all negative.

However, the feature patch is not so large as to counterbalance the ongoing glacial pace of non-LS content/features/bugfixes.