Guild Wars 2

Of the 35 or so professional reviews to be compiled by metacritic, XGN, Polygon and Videogamer have been the only ones to score the game in the 80’s and if you dig into these reviews it seems there are a few trends. 1.) These were all reviews that came in a bit late. The reviewers took their time to make an assessment. 2.) The reviewers all seemed to play the game the same way, their approach was to clear zones, ding level 80 then wonder where the endgame content is. It’s clear their focus from time of creation to time of review was to ding max level as quickly as possible and then discover what’s left. It’s as if these reviews are strategically focused around the thinking that an MMO’s endgame is what should dictate 15-20% of it’s overall score.

I honestly don’t know how to feel about that way of thinking. At some level it can be rationalized, the reviewer is trying to figure what the longitivtiy of the game and feels a good chunk of it’s overall score should be determined by their assessment of what’s available there. On the other hand they are reviewing a game that has no subscription fee that is less than three weeks old and it seems all they want to do is tear it apart because they see it as having no content after the game ends (selectively ignoring WvW and sPvP are free forever -or- the fact that for the cost of a single player experience like Skyrim, ArenaNet is giving you a free multiplayer experience).

They also ignore the uniqueness of personal story and how rolling a new character in GW2 can be a valid replacement for endgame because of it’s unique new experiences.

It’s sad that it seems some come into the review process with a little square box they envision MMOs should fit into and their entire assessment seems around how the game does not fit into that box. It’s frustrating people can’t objectively look at all this game gives for free. Pro reviews make me so angry sometimes.

There’s so much to do in this game it’s crazy and there’s literally something for every playstyle. If the reviewers are too dumb to realize after all these years that GW2 is not your typical MMO and review it accordingly, then I could care less. The 2 million plus fans that have already bought the game clearly don’t care what reviews have to say so I think GW2 will be fine either way.

I’ve always felt that reviews of MMORPGs were a bit pointless, since I’ve never seen a reviewer with the same requirements in a game that I have. And, as you say, and they can’t possibly spend enough time playing it to really understand what it will be like as a long-term hobby.

The only way to do that is to play it yourself for a few months.

“The reviewers all seemed to play the game the same way, their approach was to clear zones, ding level 80 then wonder where the endgame content is.”

So all of them failed to read up and understand the basic game design? I find this hard to believe…

They reviewed it thinking it would be WoW 2, just like a bunch of people came into the game thinking it would be WoW 2, despite ANet saying for years that it wouldn’t be WoW 2. That’s really the bottom line.

I just ignore all “professional” reviews altogether. A bunch of useles garbage most of the time.

These smaller review sites try too hard to make it look like they are different than everyone else that they wind up shooting themselves in the foot. I have seen a lot of negative reviews from smaller sites that use contradictory statements. I saw one where the guy was complaining that the loot you get from some mobs was not realistic, then complained that he could not get something from a spot that was unrealistic. Smaller websites rely on ad revenue and usually pretend they are against the norm. I ignore these websites.

DusK.3849:

They reviewed it thinking it would be WoW 2, just like a bunch of people came into the game thinking it would be WoW 2, despite ANet saying for years that it wouldn’t be WoW 2. That’s really the bottom line.

I refuse to believe that a “Pro-reviewer” would be satisfied with this level of ignorance. I mean, they are pro’s at playing a video game. This is serious stuff if the “pro” players are saying this.

Someone please take away my sarcasm hammer.

Those three sites you listed are not really that big, I can never recall using them as a guide to gauge if a game is good or bad.

And further, 80 is still a good score.

Craven.5468:

DusK.3849:

They reviewed it thinking it would be WoW 2, just like a bunch of people came into the game thinking it would be WoW 2, despite ANet saying for years that it wouldn’t be WoW 2. That’s really the bottom line.

I refuse to believe that a “Pro-reviewer” would be satisfied with this level of ignorance. I mean, they are pro’s at playing a video game. This is serious stuff if the “pro” players are saying this.

Someone please take away my sarcasm hammer.

No more sarcasm hammer for you. You’re gonna hurt someone’s feelings with that thing.

Likely a panda’s feelings.

Craven.5468:

“The reviewers all seemed to play the game the same way, their approach was to clear zones, ding level 80 then wonder where the endgame content is.”

So all of them failed to read up and understand the basic game design? I find this hard to believe…

Well it was only 3 reviewers out of 35 or so, so yeah it’s possible they did not read up at all. One of them I don’t think even discovered his personal story line (if he did, he didn’t seem to identify it’s significance). Perhaps that would be in part ArenaNet’s fault for not emphasizing the importance of personal story?

1. You are not paying for an experience like Skyrim (not even close) or Dragon Age: Origins (not even close). Therefor the multiplayer provided by Anet is not “free”. . it’s the entire game, hence a persistent world MMO.

2. The lack of an end game is not mitigated by the ability to reroll your character and do the same crap all over. Although personal story quests are different for each class, they are neither comprehensive nor particularly worthy of praise as a standalone feature. To use your example, comparing the personal story quest to a game like Dragon Age I’d call the story quests in this game a C+.

(However, WvW and sPvP DO help mitigate it. I like these.)

3. If there is nothing left in this game once you ding lvl 80 except to reroll your character or PvP, you are going to find a host of people extremely disappointed. And the canned fanboi response of “you never did your homework / Guild Wars 2 was advertised as having non-traditional endgame for months and months prior to release” does not fly. People like having things to do on their favorite characters. People like being able to raid, PvP, play interesting dungeons and engage in other entertainment.

Failure to provide this will result in a large number of people quickly losing interest after lvl 80, and again, I will stress, NOT because they are all no-life losers who grinded to 80 too fast. Proof of this will come in time as more and more people ding 80, including casual, nonhardcore gamers who got there with perfectly measured patience and genuine attempts to enjoy the game. And they, too, might end up feeling let down.

Because players EXPECT and DESERVE end game content. That’s the standard set by the market, and GW2 has a terrible weakness here they are apparently trying to cover up with a marketing spin along the lines of; we meant it that way, the whole game is the end game.

People actually read and rely on review sites still?

Reviews from ‘professional’ review sites are often so incredibly bias one way or another it’s really not very good to take them at face value.

I know that, uh… gamespot? I think? Game Informer?(It’s been a while since I read anything) was caught having their reviewers being paid by game companies to give good reviews.

So they’re really not a very good indicator at all of what a game’s really like.

The best review you can get is from people, like you, who play the game, and enjoy the same things you do.

Talk to a few of them, see what they think, and then most importantly, try it and decide for yourself.

People read reviews?If you like playing a game play it,who cares what someone else thinks about it.

End game is there and incredibly well done. Just because end-game is not based on raid progression doesn’t mean there is not end game.

Reviews are personal opinions, ladies and gentlemen. They aren’t right or wrong, just different.

Lol this is as bad as going to Rotten Tomatoes to decide what movie you should watch this weekend.

X The Manimal.5293:

Lol this is as bad as going to Rotten Tomatoes to decide what movie you should watch this weekend.

Yeah, I thought Gigli was fantastic, definitely Oscar worthy material!

After going back and taking another look, those 3 reviewers are the only ones that gave it a score of less than 90. The rest gave it 90 or above and GW2’s overall score is 91, so that’s pretty good.

I took a quick look and I don’t think I really care. For one, I’ve never heard of those 3 sites anyway. Secondly, taking a quick look, one of them doesn’t seem to really be a fan of MMO’s anyway since the only MMO to get 90 or above from that site was WoW: WotLK expansion and they’re overall game reviews scored less than most other sites anyway, so they’re just negative for every game.

I actually read one of the reviews as well (the lowest one) and the guy just didn’t get it – he complains about:
-having a smooth, fun leveling experience that was so fun he didn’t even notice he was leveling up
-how he felt the need explore the entire map and then have nothing to do afterwards
-the level scaling because he couldn’t stomp lower level monsters as a geared 80 and instead was actually faced with a challenge
-the bland, repetitive gear sets found as you level up, ignoring the fact that endgame is largely centered around picking your chosen method of play and finding a really cool looking set to earn
-lack of decent rewards for things like map completion, jumping puzzles, and other such activities but they actually are one of the few places to get certain items like Mystic tokens
-no solo modes for dungeons (no idea why he feels the need for this)
-the time investment to earn endgame (there’s that word again that the game is supposedly missing LOL) WvWvW gear

I could go on. His entire review is like this. He completely doesn’t understand the game, the Dev’s intentions, and how it’s meant to be played and repeatedly contradicts himself. Not a review really worth caring about if he can’t spend a few minutes understanding the game he supposedly spent over 100 hours playing.

Lord Jaguar.9504:

3. If there is nothing left in this game once you ding lvl 80 except to reroll your character or PvP, you are going to find a host of people extremely disappointed. And the canned fanboi response of “you never did your homework / Guild Wars 2 was advertised as having non-traditional endgame for months and months prior to release” does not fly. People like having things to do on their favorite characters. People like being able to raid, PvP, play interesting dungeons and engage in other entertainment.

I’m sorry but you are flat out wrong. This game has as much if not more to do at max than most other games.
-casual and organized sPvP battlegrounds
-ongoing open world keep warfare PvP via WvWvW
-crafting
-8 hardmode dungeons for the PvE crowd with various paths in each
-open world PvE content via Dynamic Events

You can grind away to your heart’s content earning gear via all of those methods if that’s what you prefer. Same as every other endgame MMO. What would you like to do that they don’t currently have?

I really don’t take much stock into what some reviewer has to say. If I need someone else to decide for me if a game is good or will be fun for me, there is something wrong with my decision process to begin with. I certainly don’t make buying decisions based on one persons critique.

What does bug me is the complainers here and in reviews, who say there is no end game here, when in fact there is. End game here is almost comparable to WoW when it was first released(maybe better when you consider PvP / WvWvW). There is no reason to expect as many dungeons &/or raids in this game to be equal to a matured game like WoW with multiple expansions & additions with lots of content. That game started out with only a couple of raids and only a few instanced dungeons.

As for reviewers, those I have seen who are doing more bashing, appear to me to be trying to make a name for themselves especially a few on utube.

Each to his/her own, but in the end I’ll decide what I enjoy and think is fun thanks. I don’t need anyone else to tell me what I enjoy from MMO’s.

I tend to ignore the pro-reviews and make my own mind up…………………gave up on game reviews about the same time I had a Commodore Amiga which was a good few years ago.

That said, I do actually agree with some of the reviews I’ve read.

While some are biased (either for or against), many do seem to have highlighted what at least some on the forums are saying – that end game and PVE are really weak areas in GW2………………..for some at least.

I’ll only state my opinion, which is more less that GW2 is a game you’ll love, or a game you’ll quickly lose interest in.
And that of course comes down to our own views and expectations.

Personally I’ve found the grind more apparent than in other games – certainly much more so than in GW1. But that’s only my view – the storylines and rewards in other games I’ve played made the grind a lot less noticeable.

I know there’ll be future content releases – and hopefully they’ll address the end game experience.

If you should have learned anything from “professional” “video game journalism”, it’s that none of it concerns truth, integrity or validity. It all revolves around paid reviews, even GW2 does.

These same people gave SW:TOR a 90+/100 score. A game with more bugs than GW2, and a selling point of homosexual romance drizzled over an empty WoW clone shell with less content, built on an unfinished, bugged, single-threaded engine.

Doesn’t that tell you anything?

So these “professional” reviewers approached the game as if the leveling process was a quest treadmill like a typical MMO instead of an adventure game with more in common with single player RPGs and were then disappointed to find that the endgame was ALSO more like single player RPGs than a gear treadmill like typical MMOs?

Why should I give a [small, immature feline] about those reviews?

Lord Jaguar.9504:

Because players EXPECT and DESERVE end game content.

Only the people who didn’t read the stuff ANet has been saying for the past three years expected the kind of endgame content that people here are complaining about the absence of. Uninformed consumers, every one of them.

First off the game is amazing for what it is. The issue is what some people expect and I tend to agreee with them coming from both a GW1 and wow background.

In wow I am a healer and have been 7/7 H for a awhile. GW2 pretty much made me not want to log into the sterile world that I’ve known for sometime. But, and this is a big but, those 5-man dungeons won’t hold the PvE crowd coming from wow. In fact I have no interest in ‘pugging’ which 90% of the time means wiping and running out of funds unless I use the cash shop.

ArenaNet’s forced 5-man non trinity group environment is counter productive to having guilds that want to run bigger raids that aren’t WvW or pvp based scenarios. Hell even GW1 gave us 8-man content. This 5-man stuff won’t hold on long trust you me.

I don’t see self healing as something ‘good’ or productive except for leveling. You don’t feel anything special about any character you chose or how uses their talents here. Take my yellow/orange/shield equipped level 80 Guardian. Why all the toughness if I can simply go all condition and simply dodge and jump around like a moron? Honestly? That goes for every class.

Half a wing might be useful as a stabilizer but not as an actual flying wing. That’s what we have in these so-called half breed tanks and healers but I’m not impressed and it’s certainly not fixing something that was ‘broke’ i.e. the trinity.

Leiloni.7951:

Lord Jaguar.9504:

3. If there is nothing left in this game once you ding lvl 80 except to reroll your character or PvP, you are going to find a host of people extremely disappointed. And the canned fanboi response of “you never did your homework / Guild Wars 2 was advertised as having non-traditional endgame for months and months prior to release” does not fly. People like having things to do on their favorite characters. People like being able to raid, PvP, play interesting dungeons and engage in other entertainment.

I’m sorry but you are flat out wrong. This game has as much if not more to do at max than most other games.
-casual and organized sPvP battlegrounds
-ongoing open world keep warfare PvP via WvWvW
-crafting
-8 hardmode dungeons for the PvE crowd with various paths in each
-open world PvE content via Dynamic Events

You can grind away to your heart’s content earning gear via all of those methods if that’s what you prefer. Same as every other endgame MMO. What would you like to do that they don’t currently have?

I already stated WvW and sPvP are great alternatives, even in the initial launch state (a big plus for Anet).

From my experience and based on the opinions of people I have talked to, the ‘open world PvE content’ you mention in the form of DE’s is a joke. This is because they are a straw man feature after even the first instance of playing that DE. In my opinion the lack of depth and complexity available in these so called world boss fights, and the way they always devolve into a brainless zergfest, severely detracts from any value they will have under the evaluation of end-game content.

The 24 dungeon paths available at lvl 80 suffer from the same symptom. Though variety is provided, depth is not, and therefor the PvE is GOING to come off as a shallow grind past anything but the first run where you have the novel experience of seeing something new.

Crafting is not going to be a viable end game path for players to entertain themselves unless the economy drastically improves, and people can participate in a stable market where their skills and production ability actually matter. As it is now, the most interesting thing you can do at lvl 80 with crafting is grind the feth out of mats to try and create Legendaries.

Some people are playing the market now and turning a tidy profit, but why? Oh yeah, to buy mats for Legendaries.

Lets clarify your challenge that I’m flat out wrong.

Am I wrong that a game with little end game content will create disappointment? Doubtful.

So let’s just say for the record that not everyone is going to be happy with the end game content this game does currently have – and it could be made alot better. There is no need to enter into an argument about what people should have expected or what Anet should be permitted to get away with for the sake of being different or anti-WoW.

My position: it could be better, so why not make it better? Would you really complain if 8 or 10 or 25 man raiding content was added (that did NOT add a WoW-esque style of gear progression, but just fun challenging content)?

Would you really complain if the Dynamic Event bosses were refurbished so their abilities and mechanics were actually interesting and complex, forcing people to use their brains instead of just zerging the crap out of it?

Moophious.1735:

Hell even GW1 gave us 8-man content. This 5-man stuff won’t hold on long trust you me.

If I’m not mistaken you can have 12 people in some missions in Factions.

Lord Jaguar.9504:

My position: it could be better, so why not make it better? Would you really complain if 8 or 10 or 25 man raiding content was added (that did NOT add a WoW-esque style of gear progression, but just fun challenging content)?

Someone in another thread just told me his server is dead and there’s like 10 people in an entire zone. From what I’ve experience there aren’t even enough players to do a 5 man dungeon successfully, let alone 25 man content.

Maybe you are on a heavily populated server, though.

XGN, Polygon and Video Gamer are not exactly IGN, Giantbomb, Gamespot, or Gametrailers. I have been to Polygon exactly once since it launched and that was just to check out what Arthur Geise left IGN for.

It’s not uncommon for less popular or new online publications to diverge their scores from the norm to get more traffic. Destructoid and Giantbomb used to be horrible about under-rating good games or over-rating bad games to get traffic flowing from metacritic. Honestly, how many other reviews have you ever read from Polygon yourself? But you seen they rated GW2 lower than the big names so you went to see why.

Not to say their reviews weren’t mostly genuine. They might have just been a bit exaggerated to make a more controversial review.

I read your name as Activision and almost wanted to punch my monitor.

“They also ignore the uniqueness of personal story and how rolling a new character in GW2 can be a valid replacement for endgame because of it’s unique new experiences.”

Haha, don’t let me laugh. The ‘unique’ personal story is just an excuse for a really cheesy and lame story. The choices you make trigger one or two special quests, then it all funnels towards the main quest which is laughable at best. If you played the original Guild Wars you know how disgraceful this ‘unique personal story’ is and how good it could have been if the writers had been doing their job.

It’s pretty fair that they are questioning end-game content. In my opinion the explorables are perfect. Dynamic events are really fun, lots of things to do. But exactly that parts which the 90+ reviews skip are the parts that are designed really poorly. Dungeons are designed like Korean grinding MMO’s with every mob having way too much health in comparison to their threat or abilities. PvP is a massive step down from GW1, turning a strategical rpg game into an everyday hack & slasher. Zerging once or twice is fun, but it’s not made to last. Whether things are made to last is what those reviews focussed on, fair enough to me.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Of the 35 or so professional reviews to be compiled by metacritic, XGN, Polygon and Videogamer have been the only ones to score the game in the 80’s and if you dig into these reviews it seems there are a few trends. 1.) These were all reviews that came in a bit late. The reviewers took their time to make an assessment. 2.) The reviewers all seemed to play the game the same way, their approach was to clear zones, ding level 80 then wonder where the endgame content is. It’s clear their focus from time of creation to time of review was to ding max level as quickly as possible and then discover what’s left. It’s as if these reviews are strategically focused around the thinking that an MMO’s endgame is what should dictate 15-20% of it’s overall score.

I honestly don’t know how to feel about that way of thinking. At some level it can be rationalized, the reviewer is trying to figure what the longitivtiy of the game and feels a good chunk of it’s overall score should be determined by their assessment of what’s available there. On the other hand they are reviewing a game that has no subscription fee that is less than three weeks old and it seems all they want to do is tear it apart because they see it as having no content after the game ends (selectively ignoring WvW and sPvP are free forever -or- the fact that for the cost of a single player experience like Skyrim, ArenaNet is giving you a free multiplayer experience).

They also ignore the uniqueness of personal story and how rolling a new character in GW2 can be a valid replacement for endgame because of it’s unique new experiences.

It’s sad that it seems some come into the review process with a little square box they envision MMOs should fit into and their entire assessment seems around how the game does not fit into that box. It’s frustrating people can’t objectively look at all this game gives for free. Pro reviews make me so angry sometimes.

Why is branching story unique? SWTOR did it before this and in more detail.

Still, little missions changes and dialogue changes does not warrant loads of play throughs or be classed as end-game.

Lord Jaguar.9504:

1. You are not paying for an experience like Skyrim (not even close) or Dragon Age: Origins (not even close). Therefor the multiplayer provided by Anet is not “free”. . it’s the entire game, hence a persistent world MMO.

2. The lack of an end game is not mitigated by the ability to reroll your character and do the same crap all over. Although personal story quests are different for each class, they are neither comprehensive nor particularly worthy of praise as a standalone feature. To use your example, comparing the personal story quest to a game like Dragon Age I’d call the story quests in this game a C+.

(However, WvW and sPvP DO help mitigate it. I like these.)

3. If there is nothing left in this game once you ding lvl 80 except to reroll your character or PvP, you are going to find a host of people extremely disappointed. And the canned fanboi response of “you never did your homework / Guild Wars 2 was advertised as having non-traditional endgame for months and months prior to release” does not fly. People like having things to do on their favorite characters. People like being able to raid, PvP, play interesting dungeons and engage in other entertainment.

Failure to provide this will result in a large number of people quickly losing interest after lvl 80, and again, I will stress, NOT because they are all no-life losers who grinded to 80 too fast. Proof of this will come in time as more and more people ding 80, including casual, nonhardcore gamers who got there with perfectly measured patience and genuine attempts to enjoy the game. And they, too, might end up feeling let down.

Because players EXPECT and DESERVE end game content. That’s the standard set by the market, and GW2 has a terrible weakness here they are apparently trying to cover up with a marketing spin along the lines of; we meant it that way, the whole game is the end game.

The only thing missing is raids. Isn’t that the bottom line. People want to demand ArenaNet give them something comparable to raids and want to scream and shout “no endgame” because they don’t exist?

Let’s review what you can do as endgame.

• Dungeons

• World vs World (I actually see this as the most appealing endgame. It’s best suited for level 80 players with max gear, so although you can go there pre-level 80 as a level 80 character you certainly have some advantages)

• Structured PvP

Again, really raids are all that are missing and that seems to be what everyone is demanding. I’m so glad they aren’t in this game.

Fox.1054:

“They also ignore the uniqueness of personal story and how rolling a new character in GW2 can be a valid replacement for endgame because of it’s unique new experiences.”

Haha, don’t let me laugh. The ‘unique’ personal story is just an excuse for a really cheesy and lame story. The choices you make trigger one or two special quests, then it all funnels towards the main quest which is laughable at best. If you played the original Guild Wars you know how disgraceful this ‘unique personal story’ is and how good it could have been if the writers had been doing their job

I disagree. I’ve enjoyed my personal story line a great deal. Give specifics of why you think the story line is weaker from a writing perspective than the original GW?

All lines seem to unite with the Personal Story Retribution.

People who skip the Personal Story lines altogether have no story arch to go through. They don’t “get it”. Personal Story is your path from start to end game. There is nothing stoping you from just running through the world doing only events and clearing zones., dinging 80 then going to fight Zhitan and not having a clue what’s really going on, but for those who choose that and then complain, well that’s just silly. It’s like you’re saying since the game didn’t force you down a linear path you’ve chosen to abandon the dynamic one put together for you and go off to fight the final boss.

I’m glad they give the freedom for players to approach how they want, but I strongly disagree with someone who has the story is weak. Having played through many Personal Story chapters with guildies I can say this has been one of the most enjoyable experiences I’ve had in game. In fact I would say if I just ran around doing events and hearts I’d probably be giving the game a score of 75-80 too. I’d also feel like an idiot when I realized I’d missed meat of the game.

The MMO square box, peddled by WoW to the minds of many new MMOers, is dangerous to game evolution for sure.

Reviewers may very well be in that box.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Again, really raids are all that are missing and that seems to be what everyone is demanding. I’m so glad they aren’t in this game.

What makes you so glad that raids are absent in GW 2, knowing that other people would really enjoy them? What dark and dismal experience with the games of christmas past has soured you so completely against the concept of a raid? Is it gear progression? Because GW 2 doesn’t need to have gear grinds and raids at the same time. Just because other games have done it that way doesn’t make it smart.

Having raids without a gear progression though, sounds pretty fun. So why not? Make your case.

So of 35 “pro” reviews garnered by Metacritic, 32 were in the 90+ range, and the remaining 3 (from sites I’ve never heard of) are still 80+?

I’d say that’s pretty fricking awesome. Even with the grade inflation of video game review scores, over 80% is seen as a good, solid game. So even the reviewers who least liked GW2 think it’s worth playing based on those scores.

Lord Jaguar.9504:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Again, really raids are all that are missing and that seems to be what everyone is demanding. I’m so glad they aren’t in this game.

What makes you so glad that raids are absent in GW 2, knowing that other people would really enjoy them? What dark and dismal experience with the games of christmas past has soured you so completely against the concept of a raid? Is it gear progression? Because GW 2 doesn’t need to have gear grinds and raids at the same time. Just because other games have done it that way doesn’t make it smart.

Having raids without a gear progression though, sounds pretty fun. So why not? Make your case.

Every game doesn’t need scripted dungeon raids. A better idea would be more world bosses. That’s raiding material.

Sin.8174:

Lord Jaguar.9504:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Again, really raids are all that are missing and that seems to be what everyone is demanding. I’m so glad they aren’t in this game.

What makes you so glad that raids are absent in GW 2, knowing that other people would really enjoy them? What dark and dismal experience with the games of christmas past has soured you so completely against the concept of a raid? Is it gear progression? Because GW 2 doesn’t need to have gear grinds and raids at the same time. Just because other games have done it that way doesn’t make it smart.

Having raids without a gear progression though, sounds pretty fun. So why not? Make your case.

Every game doesn’t need scripted dungeon raids. A better idea would be more world bosses. That’s raiding material.

Please read posts above yours before replying with cursory opinions.

I don’t mind more world bosses. More the better, I think it’s an awesome concept.

BUT THEY ARE EMPTY. The fights are boring zergfests. They need the DEPTH of a scripted raid encounter, I couldn’t care less if they are instanced with 25 people or in the open world with hundreds.

But for the love of god make them complex and challenging, or else it’s all just for show. A giant cool looking boss with no interesting abilities that people just zerg to death is boring. Sorry mate.

Some of the fights are nearly raids. Imagine Tequatl if going anywhere near him was suicide. That’d be a pretty good raid fight, in my opinion. Or the Shatterer if his mobs were harder.

Have you fought The Claw of Jormag yet? I’d say that’s honestly the best fight I’ve seen in the game so far. Almost NONE of the fight is actively ‘zerging’ him, and you instead have to deal with his mechanics. Which, really, that’s all raids are. Doing damage to a boss while dealing with their mechanics.

If you can ignore the mechanics, it’s basically a tank and spank.

Ignore the mechanics of quite a few of the later bosses of the game at your own peril.

Three-step process to being better than all those “casuals”

1. Attempt to zerg-rush a boss
2. Die over and over again while continuously zerg-rushing the boss
3. Come to the forums and complain that the fights are poorly designed.

The fact is, if you’d take a freaking moment to stop and analyze what the boss is doing, stay out of red circles, look for very obvious cues from bosses on what they’re going to do next instead of looking at your UI, and learn how to cooperate effectively with your teammates, you wouldn’t die at all.

But you guys do. And then come on the forums to blame the game for your shortcomings. And it’s hilarious. I wonder how fuming you would be if they just locked it down and didn’t allow you to hit up a WP when you die. None of you guys would have a dungeon run under your belt yet, and you’d be in here complaining about how dungeons are completely impossible.

This went up today. I agree with this perspective http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/18/flameseeker-chronicles-the-long-haul-in-guild-wars-2/
Regarding those asking what I have against raids, I am just annoyed at the concept of no raids = no endgame. I would take GW2s implementation of WvW over WoW raids any day. Why do we need post level 80 only content? Why are people focusing on level capping and skipping through most of the game content only to complain about not having endgame content? ArenaNet has properly focused the content to be pre-end game so if you cap at 80 then complain about personal story not being well written I think 1.) You’re crazy 2.) You’re probably playing the wrong game for you.

Or Sam, why can’t we have both and appeal to both types of gamers? what on earth is wrong with that?

Infact its the only smart thing to do.

“There’s so much to do in this game” always confuses me.
It’s a fun game. But if you’re looking for something to tide you over for literal years like the first game then you’re in the wrong place.

100% Map completion takes ~30 hours assuming you somehow were 80 without doing most of them.
Dungeons are frustrating, and not really worth doing more than once. But assuming you do them all once, all paths that’s probably about another 50 hours on there. Assuming you absolutely have to get a dungeon set, probably another 60-70hours depending on groups ETC.
The Crafting disciplines are just goldsinks. Depending on the money you made they could take you anywhere from 30minutes to several days.
The grind for a legendary is enormous, but you’re actually limited on how you can farm it (you need 250 of several trophies most people have probably never even had drop for them once. And with 100% MF gear you might get around 3 of them before the anti farm code kicks you in the rear) so thats really just artificial lengthening.

~130 hours of PvE that’s not grinding for better looking gear.
~190 hours of PvE if you grind for the better looking armor
~ ??? days if you stick it out and grind for that legendary

As for PvP
Spvp is good, but still in its infancy, id give it a bit.
WvWvW is also good, but again, the brackets are a little borked right now. Give it the few months they’ll take to evaluate the brackets and move us into 2 week games, then go do it.

Now, is 130-190 hours of content good for $60? Absolutely. But as someone who dumped a good 4000hours into the first game over a period of 7 years (a large majority of that time in prophecies) i’m a little disappointed. It’s tided me over for a good while, and I think I got my moneys worth, but I am swiftly running out of things to do that arent PvP (which I dont really want to touch right now)

@Birdy, when someone tells me they want raids or miss raids that tells me you have someone who wants the experience of being on-line for many, many hours with a large group going through the same set of task, gearing up a specific way. With all due respect, I think raids represent the past (gasp, I know don’t attack). It’s complex repetition.

If I were to rethink the raid system I would make it so the content branched. I’d make it so it was hot-joinable I’d end up with something very similar to the more complex chian dynamic events in GW2. If you follow some of the chains you end up with a few hours of play. No they aren’t raids, they are an improvement on the concept.

Keeping in mind outside of raids a game like say WoW or AION or whatever, it’s just a boring set of quest in a quest log. Go gather X, return to Y NPC. For those who need that sort of content (and to ease the transition Hearts in GW2 provide it, but that’s not the meat of GW2).

The game is not WoW. If it were I wouldn’t be playing it. I love this game for so many reasons it isn’t funny. The end game WoW kiddies can all go rot in their own game along with the kitten reviewers that wouldn’t know a good game if it slapped them in the face! Let them all roll pandas and then whine about how unsatisfied they are with everything I say. The less there are of them here the better.

Oh and when a company has to stop digital sales due to demand and server load it screams of goodness. Yeah yeah most MMO’s kick off this way I know; but this one, well I just got a feeling it might be around for a very long time.

Diablo 3 has an even worse end game and every reviewer praised it. The overall reception has been turrible.

We’re in the age of the consumer with social media reigning supreme. The power of word of mouth these days is much more useful than some editor and “their” opinions.

And speaking of word of mouth, GW2 advertising was just that through social media. Rarely came across an ad about GW2 or a commercial.

People bashing GW2 simply look up their Twitter following list or Facebook profile. More than likely they’re in love with Blizzard.

Have you seen the metacritic responses with Diablo 3, WoW and compared to GW2? Normally trolls are around but, imagine that, good games just don’t get trolled by the internets. Starcraft 2 surely didn’t get trolled and they had the same issues with Diablo 3 – Always online, and no LAN support.

Since we’re comparing the overall reception of GW2 to D3, this is relevant:

Guild Wars 2: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/guild-wars-2
Diablo 3: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/diablo-iii

Pay no attention to the critic reviews sections, that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about overall, and that includes users. Each game has enough user reviews to warrant each as an accurate sample size to gauge gamer satisfaction with each title. See the difference between the two games?

Inb4 “hurr durr Metacritic’s bad because I say so”

I’ve currently logged around 250hours in GW2 (not a boast just for perspective), in those 250 hours:

• I have not completed my personal story
• I do not have a full exotic set
• I have not set foot inside sPvP
• I only have around 48% world completion
• I have done 1 Dungeon (That’s right, just one)
• I have been 80 since about 2 days after launch (not early access)
• I have two crafts at 400 and intend on having at least three more on the same character.

I have so much endgame available to me I sometimes can’t decide where to start.

These reviews are rubbish. They obviously expected endgame to be a repeatitive Raid/loot treadmill.