Guild Wars 2

Once upon a time there was a town where a new bakery was going to open. The townsfolk loved pastry thus they were very excited and everyone had a vision how this new place is going to be.

Finally, on a late summer day the bakery opened its doors to the public and people rushed in to see if their hopes were being fulfilled. The little shop had to cope with some difficulties at start to accommodate all the people. They didn’t have enough tables for everyone or sometimes even chairs for every customer.

Eventually the rush calmed down and the townsfolk got to sample the wide variety of pastries the little shop had to offer. Some liked short pastry, while others favoured flaky pastry. Some went crazy for the jam-filled cakes; others loved the ones with different nuts. The bakery was welcomed by most yet – as with most things – not everyone was satisfied. Some of the townsfolk were disappointed because they couldn’t find the kind of pastry on the menu that they had hoped would be offered.

These disappointed people came to the shop day after day, trying to find something that could make them a regular customer since they saw that their neighbours and friends had become regulars in the bakery; having their daily dose of pastry and coffee or tea and just generally having fun.

But many still found that the pastry was too sweet, the coffee too strong, the sun shone at the wrong angle, the service not as fast as they would have liked it, the waitress not attractive enough (or temporary; since you know, a temporary waitress is no waitress at all). These people finally decided not to visit the bakery anymore and went on to visit other pastry shops that ran goods that they liked. They did not just move on however, they did something really weird. After they’ve eaten all the pastry they could elsewhere, they started gathering outside of this shop using protest signs, sent letters to the shopkeeper asking them to change the menu completely, to accommodate their tastes – even though the regular customers would have to leave then since their favourite pastries would vanish from the selection.

This went so far that eventually it looked as if the whole town would actually want those changes to the menu, that only the ones that haven’t set foot in the establishment for months, wanted.

As one of the “regulars” who found quite a few things enjoyable on the menu, I humbly ask the protesters, please do not try to force your favourite pastry on us. If you have left, I hope you find a bakery that runs what you want and I promise never to protest there for a change to the menu of that place according to my tastes.

though I have a strong dislike for your delivery, I agree with your message. Angry people are always the loudest, but let’s hope the squeeky wheel doesn’t get the grease this time.

Sure, that right there was exactly my point. That since you moved on, stop protesting with “constructive criticism” and let people who are actually still customers decide what they want from the shop and don’t try to tell them what they want. Because that is not constructive criticism, that’s something else.

kolompi.1287:

Sure, that right there was exactly my point. That since you moved on, stop protesting with “constructive criticism” and let people who are actually still customers decide what they want from the shop and don’t try to tell them what they want. Because that is not constructive criticism, that’s something else.

What is it, then?

can I just point out that in this stupid contrived metaphor the pastries have never actually gotten any worse? Sure the owner create the shirts or whatever the hell your analogy is but the pastries remained of the same quality. The correct analogy would be that the owner started making new shirts but never made new pastries.

But i think the point here is not the discourage constructive criticism completely, but instead is talking about those who constantly want game changers and complain that gw2 is lame without them. Like open world pvp, mounts, etc. These are the squeeky wheels that I don’t want to be greased.

Those that provide constructive criticism like saying how the trait system could be improved or how wvw could be more fun are always welcome, and I don’t think you see huge arguments spawn off those threads.

The point here is that most of the forum posters already left the game a long time ago (they themselves say so) thus they shouldn’t come here and act as if they were still playing. There is a term for this and it’s called “kibitzer” and nobody likes those.

proviticus.4183:

can I just point out that in this stupid contrived metaphor the pastries have never actually gotten any worse? Sure the owner create the shirts or whatever the hell your analogy is but the pastries remained of the same quality. The correct analogy would be that the owner started making new shirts but never made new pastries.

I respectfully disagree. The new pastries (Living Story) are, in my opinion, of significantly lower quality than those available at the grand opening (Guild Wars 2, circa launch).

darkace.8925:

proviticus.4183:

can I just point out that in this stupid contrived metaphor the pastries have never actually gotten any worse? Sure the owner create the shirts or whatever the hell your analogy is but the pastries remained of the same quality. The correct analogy would be that the owner started making new shirts but never made new pastries.

I respectfully disagree. The new pastries (Living Story) are, in my opinion, of significantly lower quality than those available at the grand opening (Guild Wars 2, circa launch).

dude, the ‘pastries’ that came out at launch are still in the game and are the same. This means your point is even worse. Because there are new pastries, but they’re not as good as the original pastries. So the owner isn’t only wasting their time making shirts. They’re also making new pastries. But you still prefer the old pastries. That’s ok, because the old pastries are still there. You said the pastries had gotten worse, and that’s false. There are only new pastries you do not like.

kolompi.1287:

The point here is that most of the forum posters already left the game a long time ago (they themselves say so) thus they shouldn’t come here and act as if they were still playing. There is a term for this and it’s called “kibitzer” and nobody likes those.

How do you know who among the critics actively plays and who doesn’t? Rarely does someone lambast the game while proclaiming they’ve quit playing, and those few who do could hardly be called “most”.

darkace.8925:

proviticus.4183:

can I just point out that in this stupid contrived metaphor the pastries have never actually gotten any worse? Sure the owner create the shirts or whatever the hell your analogy is but the pastries remained of the same quality. The correct analogy would be that the owner started making new shirts but never made new pastries.

I respectfully disagree. The new pastries (Living Story) are, in my opinion, of significantly lower quality than those available at the grand opening (Guild Wars 2, circa launch).

I’d agree, and now that we’re almost 2 years out, I wish they would have worked on an expansion instead. I can complete most living story content (that wasn’t designed for grind) in a few hours. After that, it’s right back to what’s been on offer for months and months.

To keep on topic, it’s very dangerous to shun the people offering constructive criticism. I’d take each opinion on it’s own merit, not on whether the player is active or not. Some of the best changes come from player suggestions.

If I were ArenaNet, I’d want to know why people aren’t happy with the game.

proviticus.4183:

dude, the ‘pastries’ that came out at launch are still in the game and are the same. This means your point is even worse. Because there are new pastries, but they’re not as good as the original pastries. So the owner isn’t only wasting their time making shirts. They’re also making new pastries. But you still prefer the old pastries. That’s ok, because the old pastries are still there. You said the pastries had gotten worse, and that’s false. There are only new pastries you do not like.

Sure, the pastries available during the grand opening are still available. But the grand opening was two years ago, and at this point they’re quite stale. I don’t think a menu offering a choice between stale and undercooked pastries is going to keep the customers lining up. Especially not when the bigger, better-established pastry shop down the street is about roll out an aggressive advertising campaign to promote its newly expanded menu.

darkace.8925:

proviticus.4183:

can I just point out that in this stupid contrived metaphor the pastries have never actually gotten any worse? Sure the owner create the shirts or whatever the hell your analogy is but the pastries remained of the same quality. The correct analogy would be that the owner started making new shirts but never made new pastries.

I respectfully disagree. The new pastries (Living Story) are, in my opinion, of significantly lower quality than those available at the grand opening (Guild Wars 2, circa launch).

Well I certainly like the Living Story better than the personal story that was in at launch. I even liked Season 1 more than the personal story.

I didn’t hate the personal story I just found it a bit underwhelming. The living story, by contrast, I found uneven in quality but I really liked some of it. Nothing in the personal story will ever equal the Nightmare Tower, or Escape from Lion’s Arch or the Marionette fight to me. All those things I feel are better than the stuff offered at launch, at least as far as my personal entertainment goes.

I don’t particularly like the dungeons in this game and never really have. They were in at launch too, for the most part.

But I do like Dry Top a lot and I do like the season 2 of the Living Story so far? Have you actually tried it, btw?

You cannot make everyone happy, that has been said on the forums a thousand times over. Those who left can offer their precious constructive criticism – even though they are past that and are usually just offering bitter comments – but i’d prefer if people who actually still log in every day would be the ones heard as the community and not those who just don’t care anymore and only lurk in the forums.

I love it when people ignore what you have to say… I said constructive criticism is good, and all I corrected was the analogy, as the pastries are just as good as they were at launch. Sure, the new pastries aren’t as good as the old ones, but the old ones are still good.

I agree and also hope for more expansion worthy changes. I like constructive criticism and it’s important. But we get a lot of complaints that aren’t constructive criticism and instead they’re usually ideas that don’t have a place. They tend to get vocal support from the same minority and the point of this whole thread is that that group doesn’t represent the entire community. fin.

Vayne.8563:

darkace.8925:

I respectfully disagree. The new pastries (Living Story) are, in my opinion, of significantly lower quality than those available at the grand opening (Guild Wars 2, circa launch).

Well I certainly like the Living Story better than the personal story that was in at launch. I even liked Season 1 more than the personal story.

I didn’t hate the personal story I just found it a bit underwhelming. The living story, by contrast, I found uneven in quality but I really liked some of it. Nothing in the personal story will ever equal the Nightmare Tower, or Escape from Lion’s Arch or the Marionette fight to me. All those things I feel are better than the stuff offered at launch, at least as far as my personal entertainment goes.

I don’t particularly like the dungeons in this game and never really have. They were in at launch too, for the most part.

But I do like Dry Top a lot and I do like the season 2 of the Living Story so far? Have you actually tried it, btw?

I have. I’ve played through the first two releases on all five of my characters, and for the most part I enjoyed the content well enough (though there’s certainly still room for improvement). This last release, though, is more of the unpolished, disjointed, bug-ridden mess we got during much of Season 1. Whether it’s the progress-halting bugs or the insipid writing, I’ve only been able to stomach through it once.

I know these words might seem alien to these forums but, you know you can play other games, right?

-evacuates to bomb shelter-

I love flaky pastry and come to eat it regularly…

But I still want Guild Halls and GvG.

What kinda customer does that make me?

Dahkeus.8243:

I love flaky pastry and come to eat it regularly…

But I still want Guild Halls and GvG.

What kinda customer does that make me?

It would be cool if the Guild Halls were in the WvW map, but theres no way the map would be big enough to hold them all.

Jack.9628:

I know these words might seem alien to these forums but, you know you can play other games, right?

-evacuates to bomb shelter-

The best part is you can play other games and still continue to criticize the elements of this game that caused you to quit or offer suggestions to improve mechanics in that area. I do both and don’t even play this game right now. I do hope I have a good reason to return in the future because there is a lot I like in this game. Just because someone doesn’t play doesn’t mean they don’t have a good understanding of the game and what could be done to improve it. When I see that the game has made the minor changes I need to enjoy it then I will start spending money on it again. Until then I will play Archeage and Black Desert and spend money on them. You can still find time to post on the forums and play other games. I only post because I still care about and enjoy parts of the game. It is just too bad some of the pasteries make me want to vomit now.

What about the excessively long and convoluted line the chef makes the customers go through to get the best pastries? Or that he only give his good pastries to the customers who waited in line the longest?

Or that he hides the toppings for his cupcakes behind pithy clues in corners of his store, hoping that his long-time customers might just stand on their heads for access to his sprinkles or get fed up and pay the extra dollar for the privilege, when before, he added those sprinkles as a part of the cost?

tl;dr
One really can’t “white knight” the abusive trait system and the suddenly 80-heavy focus of traits or the rest of the game.
I love(d) this game, but even I can see that it’s going downhill. I don’t want to leave, but it’s getting to be a waste of time. :\

See to me, there are different kinds of critics. There are people who believe, wrongly in my opinion, that Anet doesn’t have a vision. I believe they have a vision, even though they don’t always execute that vision well. Part of that might well be do to accelerated scheduling.

Those that don’t see what Anet is trying to with the game, suggest things that are incompatible with the game. Things that they might like but aren’t really in the dev’s vision for the game and never were. Reference open world PvP threads as an example.

Then there are people who want more build variety, better enemy AI, a rework of the trait system that just came out. To me, that’s valuable criticism, because those things are within the sphere of what the devs are actually trying to do.

I don’t think we’re likely to see instanced raids in this game, or open world PvP…maybe not even dueling.

I’d be very VERY surprised if we saw damage meters, gear scores or inspect (for anything but cosmetics anyway).

Not because these things don’t have a place in some games. But because I don’t believe they have a place in this game. Not because I said so. But because the devs who made the game have a vision, and that’s not part of their vision.

But there are still plenty of people who come back and all they tell you is they don’t like the game so the game is dying. Or if the game doesn’t change this way it will die.

These types of posts are not constructive, they don’t generation conversation and they don’t help anyone.

Well, I had visited the pastry shop that preceded the new one for years. I told many friends and was a regular customer.

When they announced a larger store, I was excited. I told more friends, assuring them that the new store would be the same quality in a more exciting location and staffed to provide new and different pastry while retaining the old. popular, signature products.

Then came the opening. The staff I knew were all gone or too busy to talk. I attempted to order my favorite old product, only to be told it had been replaced. Most of the menu had been replaced.

I asked if I could please have an Apple fritter with apples in it in place of Mt Dew flavored Gummy Worms. The employees looked at me blankly and said nothing.

A group of people I had never seen before got very upset with me, told me to go back to a shop I had never been to, explained loudly that gummy worms >apples in apple fritters, and demanded I just leave the shop forever. I noticed another group by the suggestions and comments box, intercepting and ripping suggestions apart to “protect” the new shop. From who, I wondered? Valuable long term customers?

Hmm. I knew the old shop was still open. I tried there. There was a single caretaker, who explained to me that I could get an Apple fritter from a vending machine there. Not fresh, not hot, dried out . But.. it still existed. And it still had apples in the fritters, even if they were years old. Surprisingly, they were still better than Mt Dew Gummy Worm fritters.

/shrug. lets play more bad analogy games yay!!!!

@Vayne. Once again, how can you possibly know the interior workings of Anet so “well” as to present yourself as spokesman for them? The constant mantra of “I’m right because I know what the Devs think” is getting tired and was never valid.

Vayne.8563:

Those that don’t see what Anet is trying to with the game, suggest things that are incompatible with the game. Things that they might like but aren’t really in the dev’s vision for the game and never were. Reference open world PvP threads as an example.

Then there are people who want more build variety, better enemy AI, a rework of the trait system that just came out. To me, that’s valuable criticism, because those things are within the sphere of what the devs are actually trying to do.

This.

There are so many good things about GW2, and I want it to be better. Not a WoW-clone or whatever one’s game of choice is, just better. And better at what it is rather than what it was distinctly trying to avoid.
It’s already the most convenient MMO I’ve ever played. Some of their UI decisions are a tad wonky (hero panel = wardrobe??), but my quality of life has never been better in an MMO.

Living Story is running (to various levels of quality), and my curiosity is fulfilled enough to follow it in the bi-weekly episodes.
I get the sense that the encounter developers are still learning how to deal with a non-Trinity system, but I’ve seen interesting designs that tell me they’re trying. (And hate melee, but whatev.)

But there are still some critical performance issues brought on by the megaserver (not hating on it, just stating it’s an ongoing challenge), condition caps/Defiance, and an apparent lack of QA/testing. That’s what we want. The rest is just window dressing.

Vayne.8563:

But there are still plenty of people who come back and all they tell you is they don’t like the game so the game is dying. Or if the game doesn’t change this way it will die.

These types of posts are not constructive, they don’t generation conversation and they don’t help anyone.

We can all agree on this.

In some cases there are constructive threads, but there is a major lack of communication between users and developers on the forums. I know they have a fairly large development team, and i’d even appreciate a developer who has no expertise in the specific thread, such as an artist in a balance complaint thread, who could at least tell them that they acknowledge these concerns.

Opposing my first statement i’ll say that Arenanet’s team is very new. I can imagine there is a lack of communication in their own building.

Perhaps the real problem at the pastry shop is that some customers spend too much of their day at the shop, eating the pastries all day, every day. Sooner or later they get jaded by what the shop has to offer and start asking for sandwiches, and pizza.

kolompi.1287:

The point here is that most of the forum posters already left the game a long time ago (they themselves say so) thus they shouldn’t come here and act as if they were still playing. There is a term for this and it’s called “kibitzer” and nobody likes those.

4500 hours in GW2. 10k+ in GW. I can show you my Mr Sparky mini as small proof of just some of the cash I’ve thrown Anet after buying the game.

I can comment, and I will.

I have no problem with constructive criticism, I mostly like to read long posts here on the forum with that kind of criticism. Although I’m a somewhat casual “I’m-fine-with-what-I-get.” kind of person, some people bring up some great ideas or really know to nail down issues. What does irritate me are people who complain on everything, just for the sake of complaining. Or people who feel the need to tell everyone that “they couldn’t care less, because it will suck anyway.”

Disagreement though is no reason to request those people to stop posting on the forums.

i have to say i love commenting on how the game should go its my game i still play got 18 chars 10 level 10 two i made last week and yes i complain. ive been loyal and i actively post negatively but there are thing i do comment when i liked them. i personally think the game is headed in a better spot did feel the game was released too quick. ran 6 of 8 of my level 80s through the last chapter of ls had to logout anf finish most of them s a day or two later due to bugs. i felt i had a right to complain about the bugs didnt have that problem in the last few chapters didnt think thet last chapter was worse just more bugy. i dont want mount i dont want open world dueling although i support a arena for that for those who want it. i understand what they say when they talk about endgame i get it. i prefer to unlock armor skins instead of gear gating so that i can choose what i wish to unlock..if i dont like the looks of it i dont want it.. to tell the truth i dont know how many hours i logged in im at work and cant play games but allowed to forum look. i dont like all of the directions goes at times. i think anet could concentrate less on the store and more on content.. ill play til either i find another game that i like better and graphics are big to me so thats why i havent found one yet. i feel i have right to complain about mypastry if it undercooked using your metaphor not up to par with what they could do and should do.. thats how i feel but ill be playing when i get home tonight op

Ummmm Anet should make it easier for me to earn more T6 danishes and scones, so I can make more legendary wedding cakes? All the ingredients are getting too expensive!

IndigoSundown.5419:

Perhaps the real problem at the pastry shop is that some customers spend too much of their day at the shop, eating the pastries all day, every day. Sooner or later they get jaded by what the shop has to offer and start asking for sandwiches, and pizza.

“These pastries are too predictable. I already know how to eat around the bottom of the cupcake and use my knife to dig out the creamy filling. Can we make it so the pastries explode in chili sauce, to make them less bland?”

I’m sure the management at the pastry shop enjoys their “loyal” customers telling other customers that if they don’t like it, there are plenty of other pastry shops to frequent instead.

Kitten, I hate condescending, preachy parables.

proviticus.4183:

can I just point out that in this stupid contrived metaphor the pastries have never actually gotten any worse? Sure the owner create the shirts or whatever the hell your analogy is but the pastries remained of the same quality. The correct analogy would be that the owner started making new shirts but never made new pastries.

But i think the point here is not the discourage constructive criticism completely, but instead is talking about those who constantly want game changers and complain that gw2 is lame without them. Like open world pvp, mounts, etc. These are the squeeky wheels that I don’t want to be greased.

Those that provide constructive criticism like saying how the trait system could be improved or how wvw could be more fun are always welcome, and I don’t think you see huge arguments spawn off those threads.

You can actually say that the pastries didn’t get worse, and then talk about the trait system? How can you hold those two things in your head at the same time? Because my trait pastry has absolutely gotten worse. The first halloween had glorious pastries, but the second one was terrible. The infinite continue coin pastry is literally inedible. Town clothes? That pastry is just repackaged from the grocer down the street. All those people who worked for their Fractal pastries having them just taken away? That’s not good business.

Some pastries have gotten better. But to say nothing has gotten worse is laughable.

Guhracie.3419:

You can actually say that the pastries didn’t get worse, and then talk about the trait system? How can you hold those two things in your head at the same time? Because my trait pastry has absolutely gotten worse. The first halloween had glorious pastries, but the second one was terrible. The infinite continue coin pastry is literally inedible. Town clothes? That pastry is just repackaged from the grocer down the street. All those people who worked for their Fractal pastries having them just taken away? That’s not good business.

Some pastries have gotten better. But to say nothing has gotten worse is laughable.

while your general statement is true, and would be true about just about anything, I actually disagree on your specific examples. Trait system should have been like it is now at launch. We all tell noobs to level to 80 the normal way instead of EotM because you have to experience it, yet we’re all too spoiled to realize the new trait system is what a lot of people had been asking for? Then you have several references to content known to be temporary. Whether it recurrs and how often is irrelevant as it was known to be temporary. Your infinity continue coin serves the same purpose as it always has, and I’m sure it will still work when worlds 3 and 4 are released. They made no promises of timetables for SAB, so I’m not sure what you expected.

The fractal reset was lame, it didn’t affect me so my opinion that it was the best option at the time doesn’t count. So you can have a point there.

proviticus.4183:

Guhracie.3419:

You can actually say that the pastries didn’t get worse, and then talk about the trait system? How can you hold those two things in your head at the same time? Because my trait pastry has absolutely gotten worse. The first halloween had glorious pastries, but the second one was terrible. The infinite continue coin pastry is literally inedible. Town clothes? That pastry is just repackaged from the grocer down the street. All those people who worked for their Fractal pastries having them just taken away? That’s not good business.

Some pastries have gotten better. But to say nothing has gotten worse is laughable.

while your general statement is true, and would be true about just about anything, I actually disagree on your specific examples. Trait system should have been like it is now at launch. We all tell noobs to level to 80 the normal way instead of EotM because you have to experience it, yet we’re all too spoiled to realize the new trait system is what a lot of people had been asking for? Then you have several references to content known to be temporary. Whether it recurrs and how often is irrelevant as it was known to be temporary. Your infinity continue coin serves the same purpose as it always has, and I’m sure it will still work when worlds 3 and 4 are released. They made no promises of timetables for SAB, so I’m not sure what you expected.

The fractal reset was lame, it didn’t affect me so my opinion that it was the best option at the time doesn’t count. So you can have a point there.

Go unlock builds on 2 or more characters, and then tell me this is how the trait system should have been since launch.

I know what people asked for; I was one of those people. This is not it.

Guhracie.3419:

proviticus.4183:

Guhracie.3419:

You can actually say that the pastries didn’t get worse, and then talk about the trait system? How can you hold those two things in your head at the same time? Because my trait pastry has absolutely gotten worse. The first halloween had glorious pastries, but the second one was terrible. The infinite continue coin pastry is literally inedible. Town clothes? That pastry is just repackaged from the grocer down the street. All those people who worked for their Fractal pastries having them just taken away? That’s not good business.

Some pastries have gotten better. But to say nothing has gotten worse is laughable.

while your general statement is true, and would be true about just about anything, I actually disagree on your specific examples. Trait system should have been like it is now at launch. We all tell noobs to level to 80 the normal way instead of EotM because you have to experience it, yet we’re all too spoiled to realize the new trait system is what a lot of people had been asking for? Then you have several references to content known to be temporary. Whether it recurrs and how often is irrelevant as it was known to be temporary. Your infinity continue coin serves the same purpose as it always has, and I’m sure it will still work when worlds 3 and 4 are released. They made no promises of timetables for SAB, so I’m not sure what you expected.

The fractal reset was lame, it didn’t affect me so my opinion that it was the best option at the time doesn’t count. So you can have a point there.

Go unlock builds on 2 or more characters, and then tell me this is how the trait system should have been since launch.

I know what people asked for; I was one of those people. This is not it.

In gw1 you had to unlock elites in a very similar fashion. Maybe since you need 7 traits per build it’s a bit more of a pain, but I enjoyed tracking down elites in gw1. It feels similar to me, and in both cases you had to repeat the process if you wanted it on another character. Now, if you’re spoiled and want to unlocked them all it will feel like a wasteful grind, which it is. Unlocking all the elites in gw1 would be even worse.

EDIT: i’d like to add that not all the trait quests are well done, I personally think the map completion requirement for some is too much of a time sink. The system isn’t perfect by any means.

proviticus.4183:

I love it when people ignore what you have to say… I said constructive criticism is good, and all I corrected was the analogy, as the pastries are just as good as they were at launch. Sure, the new pastries aren’t as good as the old ones, but the old ones are still good.

I’ll just leave this here, since it seems to apply to our little exchange. The pastries you say here are just as good as they were at launch, I say are no longer on the menu.

proviticus.4183:

Now, if you’re spoiled and want to unlocked them all it will feel like a wasteful grind, which it is. Unlocking all the elites in gw1 would be even worse.

EDIT: i’d like to add that not all the trait quests are well done, I personally think the map completion requirement for some is too much of a time sink. The system isn’t perfect by any means.

Wow, way to slap your audience in the face with “spoiled.” And traits is not the argument to dig your heels into, honestly. Especially when comparing it to GW1 elites.

I don’t overly argue with the concept that traits had. If they were simplified like skill point locations were, I’d even be more accepting of them.

But, as they are now, the trait system goes against the design goal of “let players experiment”. Players can’t experiment until level 80. They have to hunt for specific build options, because the others are locked behind inane tasks and bugged events.

The current trait system isn’t a good pastry. It’s walking into the store, getting a wad of cold dough, then being told that the toppings are somewhere on the third floor, and you have to complete a training course to use the oven. Bad.

On April 15th they stopped making my Town Clothing pastries. They gave me store credit, but haven’t come out with any good yummies that I can use it on yet. So what good is store credit?

To make matters worse, my little pastry shop is now swarming to the gills with customers. At one time, there were lots of these little pastry shops of varying sizes. I chose to frequent one of the smaller, cozier outlets. But then they closed most of them and crammed all of us into fewer shops. Service is naturally slower, and sometimes I even get jostled out the door.

Ever since that awful date, I have tried to contact the shop owners to find out what their plans were. Were they going to help their loyal old customers? Or did they have a completely new audience in mind? The usually helpful and responsive owners never answered my letters, so I have no idea in what direction this shop plans to head.

proviticus.4183:

darkace.8925:

proviticus.4183:

can I just point out that in this stupid contrived metaphor the pastries have never actually gotten any worse? Sure the owner create the shirts or whatever the hell your analogy is but the pastries remained of the same quality. The correct analogy would be that the owner started making new shirts but never made new pastries.

I respectfully disagree. The new pastries (Living Story) are, in my opinion, of significantly lower quality than those available at the grand opening (Guild Wars 2, circa launch).

dude, the ‘pastries’ that came out at launch are still in the game and are the same. This means your point is even worse. Because there are new pastries, but they’re not as good as the original pastries. So the owner isn’t only wasting their time making shirts. They’re also making new pastries. But you still prefer the old pastries. That’s ok, because the old pastries are still there. You said the pastries had gotten worse, and that’s false. There are only new pastries you do not like.

O really?

My favourite pastry was “Townclothes”
Do you want to keep going?

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

proviticus.4183:

darkace.8925:

proviticus.4183:

can I just point out that in this stupid contrived metaphor the pastries have never actually gotten any worse? Sure the owner create the shirts or whatever the hell your analogy is but the pastries remained of the same quality. The correct analogy would be that the owner started making new shirts but never made new pastries.

I respectfully disagree. The new pastries (Living Story) are, in my opinion, of significantly lower quality than those available at the grand opening (Guild Wars 2, circa launch).

dude, the ‘pastries’ that came out at launch are still in the game and are the same. This means your point is even worse. Because there are new pastries, but they’re not as good as the original pastries. So the owner isn’t only wasting their time making shirts. They’re also making new pastries. But you still prefer the old pastries. That’s ok, because the old pastries are still there. You said the pastries had gotten worse, and that’s false. There are only new pastries you do not like.

O really?

My favourite pastry was “Townclothes”
Do you want to keep going?

Yes, let’s keep going. I accept your townclothes argument, but don’t find it significant enough to cause the uproar we’re talking about. I also accepted the fractal reset, but I don’t find that significant enough either (even though that wasn’t a pastry in the original shop).

So my blanket statement of all ‘pastries’ still being in the shop is honestly false, but the point I’m making is not. Because 99.9% of those pastries are still there and if you think townclothes and having to run more fractals again are what’s causing all these QQ and rage quit threads you are mistaken.

If you stood all day in town repping your town clothes I don’t have anything against you, but most of us were running dungeons, playing the personal story, doing events, wvw, pvp, all things that are still here and 99.9% the same. The only other example of something that’s gone that comes to mind are certain PvP rewards, but they’re still available to those who earned them, so also not really an issue.

The pastry shop owner posted his menu in advance of the shop’s grand opening and then charged a cover fee for entering the shop. Some of the customers were dismayed to find that what had been listed as on the menu before the shop opened was not actually available upon paying to enter the shop. Other customers were disappointed to find that what they had paid for was removed from the menu, from their plates actually, after they had paid. Still the shop owner hinted at addressing the concerns of those upset by some of his business practices and changes to the menu so those who had come because they had very positive experiences with the shop owner’s previous business waited.

Could say that people want to control others and are very short sighted.

Their own morals are the truest and correct, even if they’re flawed (don’t like blacks, hates immigrants, heretics, etc.). Should these fail them, it’s the apocalypse tomorrow.

So these people are very inquisitive about their beliefs, so they make it hard for anyone else who doesn’t share the same belief.

Could also say that people don’t want to know about others in most cases, instead use the belief and moral codes to define them, so there will always be hostility that is not thought with logic.

It’s quite hard to make person understand that he/she is wrong, when he/she really is wrong. To them it’s almost like we’re trying to hurt or kill them.

This goes so far as to deny individuality too…

Why narsissism, hate, ignorance and more…

FrostSpectre.4198:

Could say that people want to control others and are very short sighted.

Their own morals are the truest and correct, even if they’re flawed (don’t like blacks, hates immigrants, heretics, etc.). Should these fail them, it’s the apocalypse tomorrow.

So these people are very inquisitive about their beliefs, so they make it hard for anyone else who doesn’t share the same belief.

Could also say that people don’t want to know about others in most cases, instead use the belief and moral codes to define them, so there will always be hostility that is not thought with logic.

It’s quite hard to make person understand that he/she is wrong, when he/she really is wrong. To them it’s almost like we’re trying to hurt or kill them.

This goes so far as to deny individuality too…

Why narsissism, hate, ignorance and more…

I don’t see what this post has to do with pastries.

it may be the case that ppl who don’t like the pastries just want to see the shop fail because they feel betrayed etc, but i ask you, is it not possible that the ppl who continue to eat the pastries are not fooling themselves into believing theyre getting value where they are not because of the massive time investment they made into the game..eh, shop ?

All the pastry BS aside, there is truth to what most have said here.

If you don’t like the game, fine, then you have many other options.

If you quit the game and are just continually coming back to complain, that is your right. At this point however, call it what it is: whining, hate mongering and agitating.

If you are offering constructive criticism and want to actually help the game get better, you are great people. I welcome all such things. It is the ones that are just hateful and rude that have no value whatsoever.

If other people like what is being done in game and express that they like what has been given us, they are not “Anet fanatics”, “fan boys”, “corporate suck ups”, or anything of the like. They have just as much right to express their support as do those who wish to express their disappointment. It is OK for some to like what others may not. Some people like the game the way it is even if you don’t. Deal.

Bottom line: If you have something helpful or constructive to say, by all means say it. If not, find somewhere else to be discordant.

jheryn.8390:

Bottom line: If you have something helpful or constructive to say, by all means say it. If not, find somewhere else to be discordant.

This. And we don’t need a parable about complaining about complainers to express that. Comes off a bit trite instead of to the point. =P

Complaining only gets so far. After that, either give it up, or present useful ideas and solutions.

All this talk of food, is making me hungry.

I just want to say a couple more things even though I know it makes v.little difference.

whether your complaining about or supporting the direction of development of the game, we all have one thing in common, and that is at some stage, present or past we enjoy/ed playing guild wars 2, so its only natural that when parts of the community stops finding the game enjoyable that they turn to the rest of the community with which they have this common interest and express their concerns. I agree criticism should always be constructive but I feel like there’s this part of the community that doesn’t want to hear anything negative about the game. you might say everyone entitles to their opinion and they are but the anet of today is not the anet of the past, I recall with gw1, they were one of the only company’s to go B2P, and everyone thought they were mad for doing it, I remember telling myself ill never pay a sub, and thinking good on anet for showing me it was possible, then when gw2 was in production, they had the guts to drop the healer class, sure there are arguments regarding how well this worked out but ive seen quite a few games copy this and also get rid of a dedicated healer, and anet were the first to do this too.

I just look at the state of the game for the past year, and if I take a step back and im honest with myself I don’t see any of that industry leading thinking in this games development anymore, the F2P/B2P model has become pretty common, which was the one thing anet had on its side for sometime, other games have copied their class system and learnt off their mistakes and done it better, so much of the content is just repackage content (and this is actually a point that kinda gets me mad but I wont go any deeper) I guess I just don’t feel gw has that x factor anymore, its kinda for me just become another mmo in the crowd, and the whole point is I wish it wasn’t.

Alex.9567:

I agree criticism should always be constructive but I feel like there’s this part of the community that doesn’t want to hear anything negative about the game.

I like how you posted this. I don’t necessarily agree with all your positions about the game, but it was very constructive and you didn’t assume that everyone felt or should feel just like you do.

That being said, your statement I quoted above was the only one I think is unfairly pointed. There are just as many who do not want to hear anything positive about the game. When people mention something positive they are attacked just as much. So you have people on both sides of that spectrum.

jheryn.8390:

There are just as many who do not want to hear anything positive about the game. When people mention something positive they are attacked just as much. So you have people on both sides of that spectrum.

Oh yeah.. Don’t dare say something positive or beneficial around here. You’ll get labeled as a “white knight” or “carebear”.