Guild Wars 2

8 is good and its not higher because of the interaction with the crafting. Crafting is a 3 because every crafting tree can make everything so there is no market for anything you make on the trading post. There is no point for anyone not capped to even attempt to craft and sell anything, because all created items sell for less than the cost of the materials needed. (A goblin just died in Orgrimmer after hearing that and Chuck Norris cried on Mister T’s bling.)
This upside down joke of a Trading Post is a 1 due to the lack of crafting being worth doing. I am not concerned about what can be made at top end of a crafting tree because it will take an eternity to recoup the losses it takes to get there. Argue all you want but the NRCL guild knows I am right. Who is that – That is the unofficial guild moniker for the unofficial guild – Naked Ranger Conga Line. you know the ones who truck arounds getting all sorts of basic mats, demonstrating the most efficient way to make money on the TP and showing all the best areas in which to do it.
In summary: bad crafting tree = upside down Trading post = Mats generate more gold quicker than finished items = exp in farming mats is just as good with NO income loss as crafting tree leveling .

There is a ton of crafting to do.
I would suggest looking deeper into the rabbit hole. ( → The mystic forge)
There are a bucketload of recipes that have yet to be discovered.

How would you fix it?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/The-trading-conundrum-Too-many-Starbucks

The one thing I will say as tired as I am of the main gameplay of WoW … and having never played EVE … WoW has the crafting and AH interaction nailed.

Well….Crafting is pretty crappy here. I think one of my end-game things is going to attempt crafting again. May help me in the long run. -Shrugs-

I don’t think that would fix anything. It’d end up the same even if there were 1000 crafts with unique recipes and you could only ever learn 1 per account. Say you pick “Bag Making”. Only you and 2000 other people have chosen “Bag Making”. You Bag Makers make bags with cloth. Competition will ensure that cloth will never sell for less than the cost of making a bag and bags will never sell for more than their cost.

Mars.6319

I don’t think that would fix anything. It’d end up the same even if there were 1000 crafts with unique recipes and you could only ever learn 1 per account. Say you pick “Bag Making”. Only you and 2000 other people have chosen “Bag Making”. You Bag Makers make bags with cloth. Competition will ensure that cloth will never sell for less than the cost of making a bag and bags will never sell for more than their cost.

I will let my “Cat out of the bat” so to speak. I happen to make bags and make a little money per bag(2-10s/per). I no longer have free collected resources to work with so I buy them off the trader and then craft them up.

I hear what the OP is saying but he sounds like he hasn’t done a lot of crafting to make money. I suspect he just followed some level up your crafting by discovery methods mentioned all over the place. Yes if you do it that way, you will find that what you make doesn’t sell and costs a fortune to make.

My Armorsmith makes some heavy armor that sells really well. I don’t make it until I check the AH first to see if the selling price will cover my costs plus listing+selling fees. For some reason my leatherworker has only a handful of items that seem to make money for each material upgrade.

Even in WoW the finised products are, in most instances, less than the raw materials on the auction house.

The one thing that WoW has that sell really well are the rare drops from raids. Only a select lucky few get those recipes and can craft and sell those finished products. Even then most of the raid drops were better (eg set bonuses).

Gold in WoW is trivial. Go check the people that have reached the maximum gold limit. They are out there and that was a few xpacs ago. There are very few gold sinks in WoW so accumulating currency is pretty easy. I am suprised that there is any sort of “economy” in WoW.

As stated there are PLENTY of recipes that can be made VIA the mystic forge. Those sell and for a LOT of gold too.

You take JC and Cooking..

sell the mats for ALL else..

You will xp level via the first 2 and make a ton of gold off the 2nd.

End of story

I always find crafting is a stupid thing to have in a game other then something that creates cosmetic items for you.

Echo.7634:

Even in WoW the finised products are, in most instances, less than the raw materials on the auction house.

The one thing that WoW has that sell really well are the rare drops from raids. Only a select lucky few get those recipes and can craft and sell those finished products. Even then most of the raid drops were better (eg set bonuses).

Gold in WoW is trivial. Go check the people that have reached the maximum gold limit. They are out there and that was a few xpacs ago. There are very few gold sinks in WoW so accumulating currency is pretty easy. I am suprised that there is any sort of “economy” in WoW.

As stated there are PLENTY of recipes that can be made VIA the mystic forge. Those sell and for a LOT of gold too.

2 years experience in WoW ….. Made on average 55% profit making netherweave bags … thats a bag that beginning level toons on WoW can buy and equip. Made as a tailor and its a midlevel skill. When I stopped playing I had over 5000 gold on him and he financed 3 other toons for me in addition … so I beg to differ. I never NEVER left the AH I bought and flipped from mats only on sale at the AH and only spent an hour a day on him.

fix: soulbound crafting items from dungeons (only for the last levels from each TIER)
result: people will play more dungeons & people pay more for the crafted item.

I completely disagree with crafting. Especially compared to WoWs crafting. GW2 is one of the best examples of crafting I have seen in an MMO to date. Wows crafting is atrocious and Rift is only slightly better. I guess it is a matter of opinion

There is a huge market in crafting…you just have to think a bit outside of the box.

Here’s the hint…if EVERYONE is crafting, and their final products are flooding the market, would you make money on most final products? No.

So if EVERYONE is crafting…and you can’t make money on the FINAL products…what could kind of materials could you make that have huge demands and good return on investments?

…hint, EVERYONE is doing it…

Sorry. 5000g in WoW is nothing. Thats like saying I made 50 silver in GW2.
The currency cap in WoW was 214,000 some odd gold.
The cap is now 999,999 gold.

There are plenty of screenshots online of people who have reach the gold cap. Go take a look.

Heck. Some of the mounts in Warth of the Lich king ( thats 2 xpacs ago) were 12,000 and 17,000 gold each. You should see the gold cost on some of the pandaria mounts. The vendor would laugh at your 5000g.

Sorry to troll on you like that but…

I know everyone bashes some bad aspects of this game when comparing to wow. I mean this game has been out what like less then 2 months compared to wow that has been around for like 10 years? Is that really a fair comparison? This game needs some time for them to fix and add to it to make it better. Without the monthly sub though I still think comparing this to wow is unfair.

@echo
You arent trolling me at all … very aware of the limits. Actually it shoots down Horheristo.3607 thinking I want to swim in money for min effort. I want to generate income enough to enjoy the main game w/o being broke always. Effort isnt the problem or the issue- My main in WoW went thru a 6 week questline grind of dailies for the Netherwing Drake. What I advocate is a feasable TP that rewards low/mid crafting more than a mat scavenger … but until they do I will play it the most efficeint way (horheristo) because I am not STUPID enough to blindly stay broke. If your 5000g = 50 silver correllation is correct … I am doing more than that daily from starting area mats. have a nice day.

juiceman.2870:

I know everyone bashes some bad aspects of this game when comparing to wow. I mean this game has been out what like less then 2 months compared to wow that has been around for like 10 years? Is that really a fair comparison? This game needs some time for them to fix and add to it to make it better. Without the monthly sub though I still think comparing this to wow is unfair.

They can’t fix what they don’t think is broken – hence this thread. Love the game ….an 8 for the main game …missed that? If this is fixed its a 9.5. I didnt buy every GW1 xpac but “Eye” because I hated it.

I really don’t get why crafting should be profitable. Anyone could do it then. Just stand around and making money in Lion’s Arch by clicking on materials to turn into gear. The only way it could make money if it had unique recipes or crafting was really hard to max out. I mean like impossible for the majority of players and that won’t happen.
And whether you have crafting with unique stats or skins there’s always hgoing to be people making tons of money and the rest will get screwed over.

Agreed, Vendetta. Except for one thing: main game 8?! Feeling over-generous??

@ Archer.6485
It should be profitable to make the craft valid and to fund your gameplay. EXP from gathering mats matches crafting EXP w/o the monitary loss so crafting is currently worthless to level.

If a specific craft netted a specific profitable item the demand on that item would send the price up… meanwhile since everyone can farm all mats even those they cant use.. supply of mat needed for specific item would be overabundant – driving mat price down to meet the smaller demand base …. hence fixed TP economy. Everyone makes it more complex than it is … the mmo economy is simplified supply and demand … the misconception of crafting being valid keeps the demand for basic mats high and sends the price up.

Earning money in GW2 takes a good amount of skill, hench the depth of it. It’s hard to make money but it’s not impossible, and a few people play the system and dicate the economy.

On my server, a few individuals have put up orders on many items, and it only works because people are not smart or educated enough to understand the significance of the 5% listing and 10% TP dictation fee. people would make more money selling to the vendors. they totally get played and outsmarted.

THATS AWESOME. Thats awesome that you get this little mini real-life economy. WoW crafting is boring btw! I love the discovery system in GW2. Its really satisfying.

Unlike other games (including WoW), GW2 is one of the very rare MMORPG where crafting permits to create the best gear of the game (exotics). Just for that, crafting deserves at least 5/10.

I agree on the economy, it’s quite bad (and ruined by farmers and bots too), but the crafting is quite good in itself. Don’t blame crafting for the stupidity or greed of people on the auction house.

you can earn money through crafting, but noone can do the brainwork for you, like checking for daily niches in the market. I make a fortune on low level wares, even with buying the ingredients from TP. And, as was allready mentioned, the market works, if a surplus on crafted items ruins the profit, you check your opportunities on the ingredients´ side. Again, all doable AND profitable, but you cannot expect to have loads of gold handed to you without investing a bit of time and wit.

Korrigan.4837:

Unlike other games (including WoW), GW2 is one of the very rare MMORPG where crafting permits to create the best gear of the game (exotics). Just for that, crafting deserves at least 5/10.

I agree on the economy, it’s quite bad (and ruined by farmers and bots too), but the crafting is quite good in itself. Don’t blame crafting for the stupidity or greed of people on the auction house.

greed drives an economy. And what do you mean with “stupiditiy” – trading with your own ends in mind certainly isn´t? And, if anything, farmers and bots should make crafting more profitable, as they generate a surplus on ingredients.

Algreg.3629:

Korrigan.4837:

Unlike other games (including WoW), GW2 is one of the very rare MMORPG where crafting permits to create the best gear of the game (exotics). Just for that, crafting deserves at least 5/10.

I agree on the economy, it’s quite bad (and ruined by farmers and bots too), but the crafting is quite good in itself. Don’t blame crafting for the stupidity or greed of people on the auction house.

greed drives an economy. And what do you mean with “stupiditiy” – trading with your own ends in mind certainly isn´t? And, if anything, farmers and bots should make crafting more profitable, as they generate a surplus on ingredients.

By stupidity, I mean people selling items a couple of copper more than they would sell at any NPC merchant. I’ve only seen it happen to that bad extent in GW2 so far, even in WoW it never was so bad.

Korrigan.4837:

Algreg.3629:

Korrigan.4837:

Unlike other games (including WoW), GW2 is one of the very rare MMORPG where crafting permits to create the best gear of the game (exotics). Just for that, crafting deserves at least 5/10.

I agree on the economy, it’s quite bad (and ruined by farmers and bots too), but the crafting is quite good in itself. Don’t blame crafting for the stupidity or greed of people on the auction house.

greed drives an economy. And what do you mean with “stupiditiy” – trading with your own ends in mind certainly isn´t? And, if anything, farmers and bots should make crafting more profitable, as they generate a surplus on ingredients.

By stupidity, I mean people selling items a couple of copper more than they would sell at any NPC merchant. I’ve only seen it happen to that bad extent in GW2 so far, even in WoW it never was so bad.

ah, I see. Well, there are two scenarios I guess:
a) not understanding the costs extracted by the TP and hence selling below vendor price => stupid, unless they have an immensely cunning great market scheme in mind:)
b) still selling for more than at vendor, even with TP fees => smart

In any case, an active market accomodates to that: low ingredient prices, greater profit on crafted items (yes, crafted items with a good profit actually do exist, it just needs some time to identify them). So withhold your ingredients till their market price rises again or check if there are any profitable goods you can craft with them.

The problem isn’t how many or few players can make each item. It’s the cost of creating the item and the incentives you’re given to do so.

In real life, you can go out and buy the ingredients to make some food, but restaurants still make money by doing that for you. The cost of the food they sell you is greater than the cost of the components. Why are you paying more for it? The answer is very simple: effort. For the created item to have greater worth than the raw ingredients, there must be an effort cost.

In both WoW and GW2, the effort cost is both the rarity of the recipe (rarer recipes require more effort to acquire) and the effort required to increase your crafting skill. Increasing your crafting skill is trivial, so the rarity of the recipe ends up being the only thing that matters. Unfortunately, extremely few recipes are very rare, especially in GW2. In addition, as the recipe must be acquired only once per character, the value of the effort for each item degrades over time as more players find each recipe and as players who already have the recipes continue to produce the items. Learning how to make an item requires effort, but making one does not.

In a game like EVE or Puzzle Pirates, the effort cost is time. Creating a single item may take days or even weeks to complete. Some items in EVE may take even longer. If (in a hypothetical MMO with both a crafting system like EVE and levels) I just reached level 60, and I want a new level 60 sword, I’m not going to want to wait a day or so before I get it, so instead I’ll simply buy it from someone who already spent a day making it. Time is money, so the cost of the sword will be the materials plus whatever time is currently worth.

This doesn’t address everything, however. If effort was the only thing missing from GW2’s crafting system, the value of the crafted goods would be the same as their materials. The reason it is lower is because ArenaNet has given players many other reasons to craft. Aside from needing to craft actual items to raise your crafting skill (a bad idea), you also get XP from crafting, and are required to max two of your own crafting disciplines to obtain a legendary weapon. Because there are so many incentives to craft other than creating goods, there are enough people that don’t care about making money and will sell all of their items at a loss.

At this point, there is nothing that can be done to save crafting in GW2.

the trading post is clunky for sure. i have to say i find it irritating not to be able to search for “medium armor only”. also not to be able to see the armor. sometimes you just want to know what it’s going to look like, too. but mostly the searching feels so clunky and like you’ve got to wrestle it to find what you’re looking for.

@Shroom Mage: Yes, I didn´t think of that. Giving extra incentives for people who are usually not into it or even making it mandatory in the case of legendaries was a bad move that ruins the whole part of the game for “real crafters”. You can basically buy xp for crafting ingredients – if plumbing would make you charismatic, strong and sexy everyone would be plumbing in their spare time and even pay for it, ruining the market for professional plumbers (to throw in another analogy).

Crafting is not worth doing until level 400 because most people are 80 by now, also just by doing crafting you level so fast that you will need the next armor.

beren.6048:

Crafting is not worth doing until level 400 because most people are 80 by now, also just by doing crafting you level so fast that you will need the next armor.

Not if you don’t do it all at once… And that is only possible if you farm the required items with one character and hand them to the other. Or buy all materials on the TP.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

beren.6048:

Crafting is not worth doing until level 400 because most people are 80 by now, also just by doing crafting you level so fast that you will need the next armor.

Not if you don’t do it all at once… And that is only possible if you farm the required items with one character and hand them to the other. Or buy all materials on the TP.

So you have to do effort NOT to level

beren.6048:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

beren.6048:

Crafting is not worth doing until level 400 because most people are 80 by now, also just by doing crafting you level so fast that you will need the next armor.

Not if you don’t do it all at once… And that is only possible if you farm the required items with one character and hand them to the other. Or buy all materials on the TP.

So you have to do effort NOT to level

Well, I do agree that you level too fast, but unless you farm for the required materials on another character, you’ll need those levels to get the materials for the next tier.