Guild Wars 2

No, really. I think that’s the core of most issues in the game right now.

We have a lot of players who play the game to get items (example, example, multiple examples here). If those players had no item to farm for, they wouldn’t be playing anymore, and ArenaNet doesn’t want that.

We know a large number of players farm. Take a look, for example, at the issue with the Champion Risen Giant, and now with Shank Anchorage: in both circunstances, we had a lot of people farming those events, and a minority who wanted to actually do the events and/or do the dungeon. If the players who actually wanted to do those events were the majority, instead of being dwarfed by the farming zerg, they would be able to finish the event despite the farmers and so both issues wouldn’t have existed.

So, conclusion 1: A lot of players farm, and they want something to farm for, or they would stop playing.

ArenaNet knows this, of course. So they want to give players things they can get through farming, but it cannot be things players get too quickly, or players would farm, get everything they want in one day, and stop playing.

This is an issue with armor and weapon drops. Right now, exotic equipment is the best equipment in the game – as far as efficiency goes, a player in full exotic armor and weapons doesn’t need anything else (other than trinkets, but those are different). Which means, if exotics dropped often, players wouldn’t need to farm them for a long time, but would rather get their equipment, finish gearing their characters, and leave. Of course, ArenaNet doesn’t want that.

Now, the thing is, exotic equipment is kind of an “all or nothing” situation. Either a drop is an exotic, or it isn’t, and if it isn’t, it’s not exactly helping players to get the exotics. I know, I know, that’s not exactly true – a player who gets 100 blue items can just sell them, and use the money to get an exotic. But that’s not something all players understand (example).

ArenaNet has addressed this issue by introducing ways to get equipment incrementally: nothing in the game drops ascended items, but someone can get a laurel a day, and slowly get enough laurels to buy an ascended item. Same with the collectibles from Fractals of the Mists. It’s different from the exotic equipment, that either a player gets or a player doesn’t get – slowly but surely, players can get enough “tokens” to exchange for the gear they want. It’s also easier for ArenaNet to control those things – a player can get an exotic drop on the first Risen he kills, but he will only get one laurel per day, other than through monthlies and alikes.

So, conclusion 2: ArenaNet wants players to farm, but slowly, so they don’t get everything too quickly and leave the game. Giving things incrementally is better than all-or-nothing situations, since it’s easier to control.

Now, players really like to farm. Many farm even when there isn’t anything they want right now, just in case there will be something they may want in the future – in other words, players hoard (example; there’s also the guy who has some Legendaries but also has 400 gold in the bank, just in case).

Let’s assume ArenaNet wants to keep people playing the game for a long time. Since people want to farm for stuff, ArenaNet will introduce things that take a long time to farm for. If ArenaNet introduced Ascended items as a very rare drop, and tradeable… The players who already have a lot of gold – who happen to be the players who farm, and thus are the players ArenaNet wants to lure with the Ascended items – could just buy the Ascended items in one week. The entire strategy of making Ascended items to keep people around for a long time would fail. The same issue would happen if Ascended items were given in exchange for something else that people hoard, like karma.

What has been ArenaNet’s solution? Simple: introduce a new currency in the game. One that cannot be obtained through gold or through karma, so players who hoard either of those would be unable to just buy a lot of the new currency in a single day. This will force the players who farm a lot to begin from zero, just like everyone else, hopefully keeping them busy for a long time.

So, conclusion 3: to make players farm longer (and thus take longer to get whatever they want and then stop playing the game), ArenaNet is introducing new currencies that cannot be bought with the old currencies.

Hence Charged Crystal Shards, laurels, and so on. Logically, we can assume that Ascended armors and weapons won’t require only gold, karma or laurels, since players are already hoarding those.

And the one way to keep the farmers from getting everything they want quickly and thus leave the game is by introducing time-gated content. We can’t have everything time-gated, since otherwise players would farm very little (just enough per day to get a single laurel or a single Charged Crystal, for example), but it helps.

So, main conclusion (for now): players want to farm, or they leave the game. ArenaNet wants players to farm, but slowly, so they don’t get everything and leave the game. ArenaNet is introducing a lot of currencies so players have to start collecting those from zero, which takes a lot of time, and thus prevents them from getting everything they want quickly and then leaving the game.

The thing is, ArenaNet is doing it wrong.

They have mentioned, in the big Guild Wars 2 in 2013 blog entry, that one of the goals behind the Champion chests was to make more people play in Orr and in Southsun Cove.

Why do they think it would be a good thing to have more people farming in Orr or in Southsun Cove?

The players who are farming are not interested in doing Dynamic Events. Heh, if anything, he have at least two examples of farming hurting completition of Dynamic Events in Orr. In Queensdale, we have multiple examples of people farming champions and verbally abusing new and clueless players who actually hurt the farming trains (for example, by activatin the Champion Troll when the zerg is busy with something else).

Now, it’s a great thing that farming has been (partially) moved away from dungeons. In dungeons, each member is possibly a liability – there could have been a better player instead of whoever the party has taken. This leads to a lot of profession discrimination, gear discrimination, and etc. In the open world, who cares – the level 15 ranger in green gear following the zerg around is only making it easier for Champions to spawn, he’s not taking a party slot.

But placing the farming zerg in the middle of an area in which a few players are struggling to complete dynamic events is not going to suddenly make people give up on farming and decide to do the events – no, the zerg will continue to farm, going around, stomping over or preventing the events from happening, depending on what is the most profitable.

Likewise, ArenaNet could make a very convoluted system to try to force people to do the events – like giving people rewards based on the number of unique events a given character does per day. But it’s a waste of time. Those players won’t want to do DEs, they want to farm. Making them do Dynamic Events will only lead to people seeking ways to exploit the DEs as much as possible in order to get completition as fast as possible.

So, main conclusion (for real now): forcing farmers to not farm is pointless. They don’t want to do Dynamic Events. They don’t want to do dungeons. They don’t want to explore. “Forcing” them to do any of those things only leads to trouble for those who actually enjoy any of those aspects of the game.

ArenaNet, please let the currently empty areas continue empty. Moving the farming zergs to a given map doesn’t make that map any better.

For me, the main issue is what do you do with people who don’t want to farm?

Hypothetically, suppose I have absolutely no interest in killing champions. That I don’t want to run around and hit 1 with my ranged weapon for hours.

Instead, I want to play WvW or do jumping puzzles or complete dynamic events or explore the map or level an alt. Am I to be left behind? Doomed to walk Tyria a poor man because I won’t spend my time in some mindless time sink?

TooBz.3065:

For me, the main issue is what do you do with people who don’t want to farm?

Hypothetically, suppose I have absolutely no interest in killing champions. That I don’t want to run around and hit 1 with my ranged weapon for hours.

Instead, I want to play WvW or do jumping puzzles or complete dynamic events or explore the map or level an alt. Am I to be left behind? Doomed to walk Tyria a poor man because I won’t spend my time in some mindless time sink?

You are left behind if you don’t want to dedicate the time and resources to get the items that farmers want.

Mesket.5728:

Players don’t want to farm… Players wants rewards and progress.

See, I don’t agree with you.

I think players want to farm. If you tell players that suddenly all rewards would be available as they play the game normally, people would call it “welfare” and complain. Even in one of the topics linked above, people mention how they want to show others how they can get better items/become more powerful through “dedication and effort”, which is basically 133t speak for farming.

There’s a topic about Legendaries, in which one person defends the current design by saying:

Genavelle.9516:

The whole point of legendaries is that you spend a lot of time doing crap nobody wants to do so you can get a special unique weapon that only people willing to do that much work can get. If you don’t want to go through that process, then don’t worry about making one. They aren’t supposed to be easy to get.

I think that’s exactly what players want. Something they can get, barely at the limit of what is tolerable, so they get something few others have in exchange for time spent grinding.

TooBz.3065:

For me, the main issue is what do you do with people who don’t want to farm?

Oh, I hate farming. I strongly despise it, in fact.

But everything in this game points that the majority of players are here to farm. That’s MMORPG players for you. I think even ArenaNet is surprised – they got all that work building dynamic events, personal storylines and etc, only to see most of that effort wasted, as what people really want is to farm.

You and me – we will soon be forgotten. ArenaNet doesn’t even have enough resources to make our characters say something in the Living Story. They don’t have resources to make content for the great majority of players – who only want to farm – and for us.

Mesket.5728:

Players don’t want to farm… Players wants rewards and progress.

Since there are none, they invent one (like Legendaries as one example) and farm for it.

ANet is so deep into pulling us to the gem market (who can blame them, it’s their business) that everything new must be VERY expensive and on extreme random chances… basically they are pushing players to it.

So yeah, this game was actually made for grinding, and it subsists on more and more grinding. Don’t like grinding? pay money for “money”.

^This. +1 I hate to farm.

Vol.5241:

TooBz.3065:

For me, the main issue is what do you do with people who don’t want to farm?

Hypothetically, suppose I have absolutely no interest in killing champions. That I don’t want to run around and hit 1 with my ranged weapon for hours.

Instead, I want to play WvW or do jumping puzzles or complete dynamic events or explore the map or level an alt. Am I to be left behind? Doomed to walk Tyria a poor man because I won’t spend my time in some mindless time sink?

You are left behind if you don’t want to dedicate the time and resources to get the items that farmers want.

Under the current system, absolutely. I will never have as much money, or the skins, or anything else as those who are willing to throw their time away. I know you play the TP, I won’t do that either. I will not, under any circumstances, allow this (or any other) game to bore me.

Farming is a part of every RPG/MMO that sets things up the way ANET has. Some players actually enjoy it, even it’s not a required bit for some end goal. There’s plenty to do in the game besides farming some sweet spot. Not everyone that could be considered farming are actually interested in getting mad loot either, some just find it relaxing.

The question is what percentage of players want to farm. It seems like a whole lot of people, because they’re all in one place at the same time. But I don’t think it’s as big a percentage of the entire player base as most people think.

Absolutely hate farming and the philosophy behind it. I don’t think a lot of players like farming they just like loot. To be honest a lot of MMO Players, particularly Progression Type players often have Self Esteem Issues and other Psychological Problems. Progression and obtaining rare gear or equipment gives them something to be proud of and allows them for once in their lives to be successful at something and rise above their peers. No longer are they that weird rejected kid with poor social skills, they are now powerful and 1337 and they believe that other players look at them enviously. Once this wears off they move to another game and rinse and repeat. It’s a sad reality really.

Additionally pretty much every person that is in to progression isn’t able to comprehend the big picture. Progession lovers can’t figure out that as they increase in power so does the rest of the PvEasy content. Thus with each update they are in the exact same place as they were before because the NPC’s have scaled accordingly. It’s really unfortunate that some people aren’t smart enough to understand this.

I’m fully against farming and feeding the progression loving monster. Play for fun, not for loot.

Do you know what I really think ArenaNet should do?

I think they should just give up, and give players what they want:

Make a large area with a high density of strong enemies with fast respawning rates – like the Crown Pavillion, only bigger and with more enemies, so no one would have any doubt that it would be the best place in which to farm in the game. The farming zerg would move there, and we wouldn’t have more issues with it disrupting dynamic events.

Now, make all the enemies in that new area have a chance to drop items that increase one attribute by one point (or by 0.01%, in case of Critical Damage). This has to be frequent enough so anyone farming there can get on average one per hour farming, sometimes more, sometimes less. Make it so that a character’s portrait has, at the bottom right, a +number sign showing how many of those items a given player has used (so a character who has used two items to increase Power by +1 would have a character portrait showing a +2, and a character who has used three items – one for Power, one for Precision and one for Vitality – would have a +3).

We would then have:

• A farming system with very incremental rewards. Players would always be seeing a +1, whenever they try to farm.

• A farming system that actually makes a character more powerful, as many people want. The diminishing returns of high attributes would actually make the increase in power not that significant after a while, but it would still be there.

• A farming system that inflates the ego of players, as it shows on the character portrait how many of those items someone has used. Considering how farmers appear to worry about their ego, this would be a huge hit.

We would lose PvE balance, but Ascended gear is already going in that direction anyway, and we could always use the same reply – “You don’t need it to play the game”. It would make group finding for dungeons a bit harder, but then again hardly anyone does dungeons anyway other than farmers, and they would all be farming in the new area.

ArenaNet could sell, through the Gem store, tickets giving temporary access to a copy of the same area but with stronger enemies and with better chance to get the loot. This would likely keep players busy for six months. After that time, when they would be powerful enough to one shot everything, release an expansion increasing the level cap, and make the difference in levels so big that all those extra attribute points would effectively be wasted (they would increase Power from 2.000 to 5.000, but the new baseline would be 50.000 at maximum level, so a difference of 3.000 would be negligible), and begin again – make an area equally as big, with even more powerful enemies, each with a chance to drop items that can increase an attribute by 5 points. And repeat over and over again.

I’m sure that would be far more successful than trying to make better dynamic events or a better personal storyline.

Theplayboy.6417:

Absolutely hate farming and the philosophy behind it. I don’t think a lot of players like farming they just like loot. To be honest a lot of MMO Players, particularly Progression Type players often have Self Esteem Issues and other Psychological Problems. Progression and obtaining rare gear or equipment gives them something to be proud of and allows them for once in their lives to be successful at something and rise above their peers. No longer are they that weird rejected kid with poor social skills, they are now powerful and 1337 and they believe that other players look at them enviously. Once this wears off they move to another game and rinse and repeat. It’s a sad reality really.

progression type players have self-esteem and psychological problems? the kitten?

Maybe they like dedicating time and effort into a game and be rewarded with trinkets and trophies that they and others can appreciate? Isn’t that the whole point of an MMO?

It’s a sad situation that you actually believe your notion.

Farming is a semi-must. Want T3-armor or a legendary, obtained only by playing events you encounter by walking around the world? That’s gonna take years.

Anet should decrease drops on all monsters and increase rewards for doing events. Make the events rewarding and the monsters slightly less so.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Farming is a semi-must. Want T3-armor or a legendary, obtained only by playing events you encounter by walking around the world? That’s gonna take years.

Anet should decrease drops on all monsters and increase rewards for doing events. Make the events rewarding and the monsters slightly less so.

But you can do other things without farming, but still not just be in the open world. I mean you can run dungeons without farming dungeons. I know this because I do it. And sure it will take a long time anyway, but it’s not impossible.

Farming would kill any joy I had in the game. But running dungeons to help guildies out gives me plenty of loot, without farming.

Vol.5241:

Theplayboy.6417:

Absolutely hate farming and the philosophy behind it. I don’t think a lot of players like farming they just like loot. To be honest a lot of MMO Players, particularly Progression Type players often have Self Esteem Issues and other Psychological Problems. Progression and obtaining rare gear or equipment gives them something to be proud of and allows them for once in their lives to be successful at something and rise above their peers. No longer are they that weird rejected kid with poor social skills, they are now powerful and 1337 and they believe that other players look at them enviously. Once this wears off they move to another game and rinse and repeat. It’s a sad reality really.

progression type players have self-esteem and psychological problems? the kitten?

Maybe they like dedicating time and effort into a game and be rewarded with trinkets and trophies that they and others can appreciate? Isn’t that the whole point of an MMO?

It’s a sad situation that you actually believe your notion.

What’s more sad actually is that my notion is 100% true. And no the whole point of an MMO is to generate revenue. You know, real world stuff?

All that aside it seems the reason you play an MMO is to be rewarded with trinkets and trophies to be proud of and show off in-game believing that other players will appreciate them? Go ahead and read my paragraphs again and take a look in the mirror. Don’t forget to tally up the number of hours and money spent playing this MMO and any other MMO in your past. Speaking of those past MMOs how are the virtual goodies you earned in those games working out for you now? All of it is just a temporary patch to fill the space from whatever is truly missing from your life. It’s a decent patch but it won’t fill the void.

LOL, i dont want to farm, but i want challenge. Not overly difficult like hard core gamer, but not easy enough for casual.

Almost no one wants to farm. Some of it may be related to players coming from other games where they were trained to run the gear treadmill in order to keep them subscribed which means they are now conditioned to believe that farming is the appropriate way to spend their recreational time. Some of it may just be that they want some quick cash or need a few more insert random crafting material here. And some of it may simply be that they are working on the one aspect that does require farming, the Legendary weapon. But at the end of the day, players don’t farm because they want to, they farm because they think they need to.

Theplayboy.6417:

Vol.5241:

Theplayboy.6417:

Absolutely hate farming and the philosophy behind it. I don’t think a lot of players like farming they just like loot. To be honest a lot of MMO Players, particularly Progression Type players often have Self Esteem Issues and other Psychological Problems. Progression and obtaining rare gear or equipment gives them something to be proud of and allows them for once in their lives to be successful at something and rise above their peers. No longer are they that weird rejected kid with poor social skills, they are now powerful and 1337 and they believe that other players look at them enviously. Once this wears off they move to another game and rinse and repeat. It’s a sad reality really.

progression type players have self-esteem and psychological problems? the kitten?

Maybe they like dedicating time and effort into a game and be rewarded with trinkets and trophies that they and others can appreciate? Isn’t that the whole point of an MMO?

It’s a sad situation that you actually believe your notion.

[bold]What’s more sad actually is that my notion is 100% true.[/bold] And no the whole point of an MMO is to generate revenue. You know, real world stuff?

All that aside it seems the reason you play an MMO is to be rewarded with trinkets and trophies to be proud of and show off in-game believing that other players will appreciate them? Go ahead and read my paragraphs again and take a look in the mirror. Don’t forget to tally up the number of hours and money spent playing this MMO and any other MMO in your past. Speaking of those past MMOs how are the virtual goodies you earned in those games working out for you now? All of it is just a temporary patch to fill the space from whatever is truly missing from your life. It’s a decent patch but it won’t fill the void.

No it’s not.

Theplayboy.6417:

Vol.5241:

Theplayboy.6417:

Absolutely hate farming and the philosophy behind it. I don’t think a lot of players like farming they just like loot. To be honest a lot of MMO Players, particularly Progression Type players often have Self Esteem Issues and other Psychological Problems. Progression and obtaining rare gear or equipment gives them something to be proud of and allows them for once in their lives to be successful at something and rise above their peers. No longer are they that weird rejected kid with poor social skills, they are now powerful and 1337 and they believe that other players look at them enviously. Once this wears off they move to another game and rinse and repeat. It’s a sad reality really.

progression type players have self-esteem and psychological problems? the kitten?

Maybe they like dedicating time and effort into a game and be rewarded with trinkets and trophies that they and others can appreciate? Isn’t that the whole point of an MMO?

It’s a sad situation that you actually believe your notion.

What’s more sad actually is that my notion is 100% true. And no the whole point of an MMO is to generate revenue. You know, real world stuff?

All that aside it seems the reason you play an MMO is to be rewarded with trinkets and trophies to be proud of and show off in-game believing that other players will appreciate them? Go ahead and read my paragraphs again and take a look in the mirror. Don’t forget to tally up the number of hours and money spent playing this MMO and any other MMO in your past. Speaking of those past MMOs how are the virtual goodies you earned in those games working out for you now? All of it is just a temporary patch to fill the space from whatever is truly missing from your life. It’s a decent patch but it won’t fill the void.

You have a very uninformed view of the current state of MMO players.

I’m curious though as to what you would do in this game if there was no loot at all.

I don’t believe that people first start out playing MMO’s asking “what is the best MMO to farm in?”.

The game encourges it through poor design. It’s not just any kind of farming. After all, why don’t you see people out grinding the normal mobs that Orr is beyond packed with (the mob density is beyond anything I’ve seen in any MMO)?

Simple. Time vs reward. These farmers look for these little areas/exploits that they can take advantage of to get as much shiney as possible in the least amount of time possible. They don’t find the act of farming itself to be fun, but rather getting the reward part that is fun for them.

Where does the problem lay? With the game design.

Commodor 64
Nintendo
Supernintendo
Nintendo 64
Sega
Sega 64
Sega CD
Playstation
Playstation 2
Playstation 3
XBox
XBox 360
PC

I’ve owned all of these at one point. Why did I play a game like Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, The Elderscrolls or even Myst? They were games that did a great job at actually capturing you. They were interesting. Interesting gameplay, interesting story (most important), and they allowed you to really escape.

Take a game like Final Fantasy. You level up, get better gear, etc. So what’s different between Final Fantasy (non online titles) and most MMOs? In those off line games, leveling/gearing was something that allowed you to survive the next area so you can carry on with the adventure. A means to an end. In MMOs, it is the goal and that is the problem.

When the goal is to simply get to max level and fully geared, you will do whatever is needed to do it in the most efficient manner. As for the companies, what do they care? If it keeps people playing and paying.

The purpose needs to be the adventure again.

But how does that work with an online game? With an offline game, the developers make the game with the intent that they will need to do very few updates and will get their revenue from the sales.

With an online game, you have to maintain a staff of people dedicated to working on that same game (as oppose to off line games which, once complete, the team will move onto the next project). You also have to maintain a room (or multiple rooms if international which ANet is) full of servers and have a team of maintainers for them. Then there are ongoing marketing costs for that same game. etc. etc.

But honestly, at what point are these companies just milking their customers as appose to simply covering costs and making a modest profit?

I’d say at the point where these companies use design features which prey upon the player’s psyche.

-RNG which is basically gambling. It’s just as easy for people to get addicted on this as it is for someone to get addicted to slot machines. I’m sure ANet is making pretty good money off of the black lion keys. Among other things like the mini’s. Buy this and get 3 random mini’s. You can spend a lot of money on gems if trying to aquire them all when some have very low drop rates and you are able to get repeats.

-Loot Drops from mobs as opposed to (or in addition to) loot upon task completion. Here is what turns your first time player into a farmer. Why complete the mission when the mobs that spawn in the mission gives me more than what I would get for finishing? Why spend an hour doing that mission when I could kill X amount of this type of mob in the same amount of time and get twice the reward?

-Tasks that involve a heavy amount of repetition (run around and press “F” 100 times, or kill 100 of this type of mob). Or you can simply buy what it is you are trying to get with real money. If it’s tradeable? It’ll be rare and highly desired, thus valuable. Expect to fork over a lot of gold in the TP. High cost of items in game only encourage people to either farm gold or farm items that are worth a lot in the TP so they can amass a wealth to simply buy the other more expensive items in the TP.

The solution is two fold…

1. They should focus on content that is gripping. They should fire the psychologists they have working for them and higher story tellers who know how to write a compelling story.

2. They should focus on designing content that is worth doing for the experience and will reward players upon completion.

Put those two together and you will have something that is much better. People don’t want handouts. There are far too many inflated egos floating around that think that players just want to be spoon fed rewards. I believe people want content that is challenging to their level of play and want to be rewarded based on the time and difficulty. I see this as being reasonable.

I also beleave that people would rather take an hour doing one thing just one time and be challenged by it for a particular reward, instead of taking an hour doing a trivial task 100 times. If the challenging task is also something that is interesting, then getting a reward at the end is (should be) just icing on the cake.

The only obsticle here is that no two people have matching skills yet everyone wants that shiny.

You can handle this in one of two ways…

1. Allow the option to try again if you (or your party) wipes but each time you do, the difficulty drops slightly. If the task is multi staged, then after each stage, depending on how easily you completed it, the difficulty could increase.

2. Say “too bad, so sad” and those that can do it get the reward while those that can’t, don’t.

I think people want to do the activities they enjoy and have that build up a comfortable stash of gold so they don’t have money worries in a freaking game(and so many things in GW2 hang on gold, so big surprise Anet decided get into gold selling). The channels for making money are extremely narrow here and with the history of GW2 it’s not surprising players try to milk that farm spot before it takes a nerf bat to the knee.

Increase Dynamic Event rewards to where they exceed farming… it really is that simple

Deamhan.9538:

Simple. Time vs reward. These farmers look for these little areas/exploits that they can take advantage of to get as much shiney as possible in the least amount of time possible. They don’t find the act of farming itself to be fun, but rather getting the reward part that is fun for them.

Where does the problem lay? With the game design.

But what if the game is flooded with players whose only source of fun is getting those rewards? In another topic, someone said…

Chickenshoes.6250:

MMO fight mechanics and imbalances really don’t make for good gameplay. If I wanted to just WvW all day for no rewards at all, I’d be playing a game that does it much much better like Planetside 2.

If I wanted to fight with these RPG-like mechanics I’d play an RPG.

If I wanted to play cooperatively with a handful of friends, there are many cooperative games designed completely around that one aspect of the experience.

If I wanted to play a fun game I’d probably be playing a shooter.

The largest point to an MMO is to better your character in comparison to other players through acquisition.

…And with players like that, if most of your players are like that, it’s not a matter of game design – it’s a matter of giving your players what they want, or not doing so and thus watching as players leave.

Now, I agree that GW2 at release had a lot of rewards for farming. But it also had a lot of activities other than farming, activities which are mostly left alone. I have the feeling the reason why ArenaNet has been adding so much farm-focused content (such as the bottom level of the Crown Pavillion) is due to how they have noticed that most players just want to farm.

Storn.8394:

Increase Dynamic Event rewards to where they exceed farming… it really is that simple

Why?

People would still farm. Instead of farm by killing monsters, they would farm Dynamic Events. It would still give us all the same issues that farming always creates – when you have players focused on maximum efficiency to the detriment of everything else, you are going to clash with players who just want to enjoy the content. Having the farming zerg doing dynamic events would hardly make said events more enjoyable for those who like them. And the farmers themselves don’t really enjoy the events (they enjoy the rewards only), so… Why bother?

People NEED a self justification to log in and play…some turn to farming as the driver reason…others prefer fractals, others dynamic events, others want better gear, others want achievements etc etc. Now what makes us WANT to play is the driver. ANet are inadvertantly squashing some of the driving reasons people play…whether by design or accident is up for debate but they need to strike a balance at accommodating what drives different people to play the game…not knee jerk react to isolated or very specific aberations or to force people one way or the other without leaving that driver there for those who NEED it.

Farming wouldn’t be such an issue if there were large gold sinks in the game.

Tier 3 armor and commander icons are good examples. They could add cosmetic real estate items to spice up the home instance. Players could invite other players and have private parties with mini games. Or how about a big public 1v1 arena tournament hosted in a player’s home instance?

The possibilities are limitless.

Lambent.6375:

Theplayboy.6417:

Vol.5241:

Theplayboy.6417:

Absolutely hate farming and the philosophy behind it. I don’t think a lot of players like farming they just like loot. To be honest a lot of MMO Players, particularly Progression Type players often have Self Esteem Issues and other Psychological Problems. Progression and obtaining rare gear or equipment gives them something to be proud of and allows them for once in their lives to be successful at something and rise above their peers. No longer are they that weird rejected kid with poor social skills, they are now powerful and 1337 and they believe that other players look at them enviously. Once this wears off they move to another game and rinse and repeat. It’s a sad reality really.

progression type players have self-esteem and psychological problems? the kitten?

Maybe they like dedicating time and effort into a game and be rewarded with trinkets and trophies that they and others can appreciate? Isn’t that the whole point of an MMO?

It’s a sad situation that you actually believe your notion.

[bold]What’s more sad actually is that my notion is 100% true.[/bold] And no the whole point of an MMO is to generate revenue. You know, real world stuff?

All that aside it seems the reason you play an MMO is to be rewarded with trinkets and trophies to be proud of and show off in-game believing that other players will appreciate them? Go ahead and read my paragraphs again and take a look in the mirror. Don’t forget to tally up the number of hours and money spent playing this MMO and any other MMO in your past. Speaking of those past MMOs how are the virtual goodies you earned in those games working out for you now? All of it is just a temporary patch to fill the space from whatever is truly missing from your life. It’s a decent patch but it won’t fill the void.

No it’s not.

Your bold HTML didn’t work. But it IS 100% true. Game companies these days know this and are preying upon it. MMO’s specifically are making a killing…….

No, players don’t want to farm. I mean the sane part of the community who wishes to enjoy their time in GW2, not take it like a drug every day. They (myself included) want challenging content that places an emphasis on the very things they preached as “essential” all those years ago.

Farming is by far the laziest end-game “content” a developer can create. You do minimal amount of work and put an extreme TIME-GATE mechanic to extend that as much as possible. That’s right, I said time-gating – farming isn’t “work”, you’re not a hero or a better player for doing the same thing 5000 times. Are farmers to blame? Well, when all Arena.NET does with their glorified micro-updates is provide more incentives for people to indulge in the bane of MMO gaming, it’s hard to accuse the community in particular.

That’s not what GW2 should have been about. But it’s what GW2 is.

Poledo.3256:

Theplayboy.6417:

Vol.5241:

Theplayboy.6417:

Absolutely hate farming and the philosophy behind it. I don’t think a lot of players like farming they just like loot. To be honest a lot of MMO Players, particularly Progression Type players often have Self Esteem Issues and other Psychological Problems. Progression and obtaining rare gear or equipment gives them something to be proud of and allows them for once in their lives to be successful at something and rise above their peers. No longer are they that weird rejected kid with poor social skills, they are now powerful and 1337 and they believe that other players look at them enviously. Once this wears off they move to another game and rinse and repeat. It’s a sad reality really.

progression type players have self-esteem and psychological problems? the kitten?

Maybe they like dedicating time and effort into a game and be rewarded with trinkets and trophies that they and others can appreciate? Isn’t that the whole point of an MMO?

It’s a sad situation that you actually believe your notion.

What’s more sad actually is that my notion is 100% true. And no the whole point of an MMO is to generate revenue. You know, real world stuff?

All that aside it seems the reason you play an MMO is to be rewarded with trinkets and trophies to be proud of and show off in-game believing that other players will appreciate them? Go ahead and read my paragraphs again and take a look in the mirror. Don’t forget to tally up the number of hours and money spent playing this MMO and any other MMO in your past. Speaking of those past MMOs how are the virtual goodies you earned in those games working out for you now? All of it is just a temporary patch to fill the space from whatever is truly missing from your life. It’s a decent patch but it won’t fill the void.

You have a very uninformed view of the current state of MMO players.

I’m curious though as to what you would do in this game if there was no loot at all.

Actually I have a very educated view on the current state of MMO Players. It seems you’re the misinformed self educated MMO Player Expert.

To answer your question I would do the same thing that I’m doing now, that is play to have fun, waste time, and do the things that I feel like doing. It’s a video game, nothing more. I don’t need a shiny virtual weapon to walk around with in some online video game in order to feel good about myself.

To be honest I would prefer if there was no loot and only 1 single tier of weapons, armor, and equipment. I would also prefer zero leveling. Meaning everyone from the start of the game has access to highest level stats, gear, and skills. I think we should all be able to switch our traits and builds instantly out of combat without visiting a vendor to “re-trait”. I also think the introduction of Ascended gear was the worst decision possible.

The question now is what would you do without any loot?

People don’t want to farm. People want to be super special snowflakes. Even if Legendaries only sparkled in the sunlight like Edward but only 1 in every 20,000 had them you bet your kitten people would be farming that like arabs farm oil. It has nothing to do with farming it has everything to do with them being able to flex nuts at their surrounding players to show what a xXx420blazeitxXx hard kitten they are. That’s it. It’s the prestige of being better than everyone else because you have a purple while they have exotics and rares. As it stands the only way to get the really flashy ones, the farmxotics, is to farm it like an Ethiopian. They’re hard to get and it takes forever and because of it only five people have the kitten thing so whoever has it is CLEARLY better than everyone else.

Want to kill farming? Stop promoting it by having these items as exclusive as they are. Give us challenges that reward those items instead of farms. Nobody likes farms. Farmers don’t even like farms. What they like is the prestige and it’s the kind of prestige that people who ave completed Liadri will have at the end of QJ. Encourage that kind of prestige instead. Something for effort instead of time wasted on pixels on a screen. I HATE Liadri, but I have mad props for the people who complete it. That prestige is going to follow behind those people until the next event with such a difficult and exclusive reward.

players don’t want to farm, they want to be happy
normally games are supposed to be fun and give you happiness, but in the absence of fun a system of drip-fed gear progression substitutes well enough for most people.

Erasculio.2914:

Storn.8394:

Increase Dynamic Event rewards to where they exceed farming… it really is that simple

Why?

People would still farm. Instead of farm by killing monsters, they would farm Dynamic Events. It would still give us all the same issues that farming always creates – when you have players focused on maximum efficiency to the detriment of everything else, you are going to clash with players who just want to enjoy the content. Having the farming zerg doing dynamic events would hardly make said events more enjoyable for those who like them. And the farmers themselves don’t really enjoy the events (they enjoy the rewards only), so… Why bother?

Partly true, but only if you don’t look beyond that. DEs next have to be managed (can be automated) so that popular farm DEs get lower rewards, while unpopular ones get their rewards raised (just reality: supply and demand of heroes ).

Why not just do that with mobs?
- For one, just getting players to do the DEs would be an improvement.
- More so since “mob farming” regularly goes straight against the objectives of DEs (either failing or refusing to complete them).
- DEs are a nice way to play. Problem is, when you get only a fraction of the reward of farming… in essence, “explorers” will have trouble even keeping up with inflation.
- Mobs get massacred by zergs, compared to small groups of players. DEs however just scale up properly, ensuring the zerg doesn’t get that much of a bonus.
- DEs more easily allow support characters to be rewarded… instead of just “more DPS”.
- Since DEs are far less numerous than mobs, they’d be easier (that is, at all feasible) to keep tabs on.
- “Spawn times” of DEs should be easy enough to adapt to such a point that farming routes aren’t much of an option.
- And of course it’s simply more realistic. Adventurers make their money solving people’s problems. Not by selling thousands of pieces of armour they somehow looted from the fish they massacred.

Such are some direct reasons. There are also long term reasons to take such a stance. ANet took pride in the DE system – they should get players to at least use it. Even if the farmers do so only as a means to an end. At that point they can both economically and artistically justify improving the DE system and make it truly a “living world”. That all players can enjoy.

So that’s why bother.

Someone suggested in another post (not going to look for it),

Tie new skins to DE’s throughout the game through some sort of currency+crafting mat only obtainable from very specific zones. Granted, we now have many currencies already, but with the wallet in place we could actually have a few more. The largest problem with currency before (imo) was that it took up bank space.

Example:

Complete a DE, earn a token. One token per DE per day. Character soul/bound
xx amount of tokens +xx amount of crafting mat found in that zone =skin
Zone specific skins.
Can earn a full set in 2-4weeks.
Make them prestige items, req= lvl 80.

That gives 80’s something to work for. I think something along those lines would get 80’s into zones doing DE’s.

I personally only ever farmed in other games to craft items to sell. Crafting in this game is so hard mainly because of T6 and lodestone requirements. Snake eating it’s own tale(and tail) here. Mats are hard as nails to get to craft with any frequency, gold reward is slow and low, so if you want a skin you have to find rewards for time put in that you can deal with. So that you can buy mats to craft with any frequency. So my focus is earning gold to just buy items I myself will use.

Thus, I hate crafting in this game and other games like it. Farming in many other games had mats that would drop quite frequently so that the only reason to buy items from the auction houses was that there was a convenience. “I don’t want to farm or take the time to craft so I’ll just buy it”. Here, farming for the materials by themselves(mainly lodestones) would take forever. So, what do I do? I find a farm to make gold to just buy the item outright from someone who farmed the gold just like I did to craft an item. Now I can sell the item again at a later date trying to make a profit or I can use it.

Erasculio.2914:

Deamhan.9538:

Simple. Time vs reward. These farmers look for these little areas/exploits that they can take advantage of to get as much shiney as possible in the least amount of time possible. They don’t find the act of farming itself to be fun, but rather getting the reward part that is fun for them.

Where does the problem lay? With the game design.

But what if the game is flooded with players whose only source of fun is getting those rewards? In another topic, someone said…

Chickenshoes.6250:

MMO fight mechanics and imbalances really don’t make for good gameplay. If I wanted to just WvW all day for no rewards at all, I’d be playing a game that does it much much better like Planetside 2.

If I wanted to fight with these RPG-like mechanics I’d play an RPG.

If I wanted to play cooperatively with a handful of friends, there are many cooperative games designed completely around that one aspect of the experience.

If I wanted to play a fun game I’d probably be playing a shooter.

The largest point to an MMO is to better your character in comparison to other players through acquisition.

…And with players like that, if most of your players are like that, it’s not a matter of game design

Actually it still would be. Why would you play PlanetSide 2 for the WvW over GW2? Why would you play CoD for the PvP over GW2?
Why would you play FF13 over GW2 for the PvE?

The answer is simple. Those other games do it better (mainly because they are centered around it).

Sure you have to put aside the fact that PS2 is a scifi fps and GW2 isn’t.
Sure you have to put aside that GW2 is an MMO and FF13 isn’t.

Once you do, then yeah, those other games do it better.

That to me comes down to game design. I’m sure that if they designed it based on their manifesto, and if they designed it to make farming the worst way to get ahead (save the xp and loot as a final reward after the quest/DE is complete) and put DR on doing the same DE over and over without mixing it up AND have a decent amount of time pass before the DE spawns again, then the game would be just as populated. Maybe not with the same people but just as populated.

You could see MMOs as a ‘chicken and the egg’ situation. What came first? The person who wants to farm or the game that was designed in such a way that farming was the most efficient way to get the things you wanted?

For I say ‘If you design it, they will come’. I believe the game came first and when people began to farm, since it was the most efficient way, they became conditioned to it. Then as MMO after MMO came out simply putting a new skin on the same cookie cutter concepts, the crowd simply moved on and continued to do what was still the most efficient way to get stuff.

However I firmly believe that not one of them actually find the act of farming enjoyable. I can guarantee you that it is the act of getting the reward that they find fun. Obtaining enough gold to straight up buy the legendary they want. Obtaining the materials they need to craft the legendary. Getting that rare event item. Being the first around you to get it.

Take the reward away and do you think they will continue to farm? Absolutely not. They will move on. They will either find what the next most efficient way is, or they will go to a new game that offers a more efficient way.

The difference is that with the former, they like the game enough to stick with it. I think these people would be quite thrilled if the most efficient way was also completing the events and following the story. Especially if the story was actually interesting and capable of pulling you in.

The latter are just addicts looking for their adrenalin fix. I know how it is, or how it can be. You get that unidentified dye and it could be something worth 100g or it could be worth 10c. Your heart races a bit and your blood flows in the anticipation. Same idea with rare drops. For these people the game is pulling the lever. They have no interest in any kind of story. Still doesn’t mean they enjoy the act of pulling that lever. It’s the thrill of getting those swinging bells that they seek and enjoy.

Theplayboy.6417:

Absolutely hate farming and the philosophy behind it. I don’t think a lot of players like farming they just like loot. To be honest a lot of MMO Players, particularly Progression Type players often have Self Esteem Issues and other Psychological Problems. Progression and obtaining rare gear or equipment gives them something to be proud of and allows them for once in their lives to be successful at something and rise above their peers. No longer are they that weird rejected kid with poor social skills, they are now powerful and 1337 and they believe that other players look at them enviously. Once this wears off they move to another game and rinse and repeat. It’s a sad reality really.

Additionally pretty much every person that is in to progression isn’t able to comprehend the big picture. Progession lovers can’t figure out that as they increase in power so does the rest of the PvEasy content. Thus with each update they are in the exact same place as they were before because the NPC’s have scaled accordingly. It’s really unfortunate that some people aren’t smart enough to understand this.

I’m fully against farming and feeding the progression loving monster. Play for fun, not for loot.

seems like someone has self-esteem issues . Many players don’t necessary have self-esteem issues, but are hoarders, aka they like to acquire stuff and keep it. It happens in real life too and has nothing to do with any issue. Grinding is not fun, but some of us do it because we want something in particular which might be super expensive and it would have months before achieving it with the rewards given from the story or the actual events. I bought recently 6 divinity runes that broke me completely. I did not do it because I have self-esteem issues, but rather because I like a balanced stat. At 13g per rune, the time required to achieve that without farming is quite high unless you play TP, which is still grinding but in a different manner, so learn the difference before accusing people .

Tenshi.3598:

Erasculio.2914:

Storn.8394:

Increase Dynamic Event rewards to where they exceed farming… it really is that simple

Why?

People would still farm. Instead of farm by killing monsters, they would farm Dynamic Events. -snip-

Partly true, but only if you don’t look beyond that. DEs next have to be managed (can be automated) so that popular farm DEs get lower rewards, while unpopular ones get their rewards raised (just reality: supply and demand of heroes ).
-snip-

(Snipping in case this discussion drags on)

Agreed on this. Getting players into the DEs would be an improvement. But, to further break the whole rotation thing, go back to something mentioned (and dismissed) in the original post, the bonus reward being for unique DEs.
But, not some limit per day, aside from, well, the number of unique DEs in the game. This breaks any reasonable rotation and encourages spreading throughout the map.

Farmers will continue to get more stuff in general by doing more DEs more often and using event map websites to do so more efficiently, but players who don’t want to do mind-numbing tasks will still be able to get an income of high grade materials for making the fancier items or for selling. And, of course, maps won’t be so dead.

Farmers will farm, so let’s put their shovels, sickles and plows to good use making the world more populated, and at the same time make the income for the non-farming players better.

Also, I suspect that the reward balancing for events could be automated, just by checking which events get done (successfully) more often. Just adjust it on the daily schedule. Heck, you could even make it server by server, encouraging guesting on lower population servers.

Wow, the self proclaimed educated MMORPG/psychology professor provides us with his expert opinion on MMORPG players in a video game forum… What a load of crap, really, it’s too bad I bothered myself to read that, so for everyone’s sake I won’t quote you on those “thoughts” of yours and make other people read them. Just a quick note – your poor excuse for a psychoanalysis is not a valid argument against farming. You do realize, that your own replies suggest that whatever it is that players (including you) do in this game is filling a void. That also suggests that you also fall under the very same ‘MMO player’ category. Hence, even by your own standards, you are just another player with your own psychological issues, empty spaces to fill…

Guess what? Some people do like to farm. Heck, I myself sometimes and to an extent like to farm. I don’t really know why, I got the gear I need, I just feel like killing some monsters, getting some drop (whatever it is). Others like doing JPs, which I dislike. My encounters with GW2 players suggest I’m not alone on these. So how are any of your arguments about going away from farming any different from someone kittening to take away stealth, buff GS for ranger, make some of the new content easier or harder, or how would that differ from me asking to loose JPs because I dislike them? Don’t like it – don’t do it. This game has a lot of stuff you can do and farming is just one of those things.

See I was wondering why arenanet was against farming so much and then it clicked. They made this game for a casual base of players and not hardcore. If Arenanet allowed farming than players who spent more time farming would make more money from selling the rare items they gained, more money means that prices will rise greatly on everything across the board.

Now if i’m a casual player and I want to get an awesome weapon but I see that it’s 100g and I have only a small amount of playtime a week. It will take me much longer to get that weapon without spend a huge chunk of my play time doing something I hate such as farming.

So it’s really a double edge sword who would you like to cater to. Your casual base, or your hardcore fans.

People ’don’t’ want to farm, they ‘have’ to farm.

Why are legendaries tied to gold, they hurt the players more than they should.

Vayne.8563:

The question is what percentage of players want to farm. It seems like a whole lot of people, because they’re all in one place at the same time. But I don’t think it’s as big a percentage of the entire player base as most people think.

Seriously, we should make some sort of poll. I am really interested to know what proportion of the players like to do what.

Erasculio.2914:

Even in one of the topics linked above, people mention how they want to show others how they can get better items/become more powerful through “dedication and effort”, which is basically 133t speak for farming.

I don’t think it’s 1337 speak for farming. I think it’s 1337 speak for how players want something to show off that they are skillful in the game. Hence why the Liadri mini is a big hit with the people that got it. You couldn’t get that mini unless you were a good player, and it shows exactly that to everybody.

my solution:

equal rewards for everything… depending on time spent and difficulty (just like they attempted with the new dungeon rewards)

• farming 1h = average 5g
• exploring the map 1h = finding random spawned artifacts (new collectible), alternative use: vendor for 5g
• doing a variety of unique events 1h = average 5g
• playing WvW 1h = average 5g
• dungeons 1h = 5g
• jumping puzzles 1/2h = 2.5g

(this are random numbers of course)
Now you might say: but this can’t be balanced accordingly. A perfect balance is impossible. I’ll respond: of course. But having nearly similar outcome is still much better than doing stuff and having the feeling of wasting time.

farming 5g/hr is like work $2.5
or even 10g/hr, which is pav atm, is like working $5/hr

._.

Kronus.6048:

Theplayboy.6417:

Absolutely hate farming and the philosophy behind it. I don’t think a lot of players like farming they just like loot. To be honest a lot of MMO Players, particularly Progression Type players often have Self Esteem Issues and other Psychological Problems. Progression and obtaining rare gear or equipment gives them something to be proud of and allows them for once in their lives to be successful at something and rise above their peers. No longer are they that weird rejected kid with poor social skills, they are now powerful and 1337 and they believe that other players look at them enviously. Once this wears off they move to another game and rinse and repeat. It’s a sad reality really.

Additionally pretty much every person that is in to progression isn’t able to comprehend the big picture. Progession lovers can’t figure out that as they increase in power so does the rest of the PvEasy content. Thus with each update they are in the exact same place as they were before because the NPC’s have scaled accordingly. It’s really unfortunate that some people aren’t smart enough to understand this.

I’m fully against farming and feeding the progression loving monster. Play for fun, not for loot.

seems like someone has self-esteem issues . Many players don’t necessary have self-esteem issues, but are hoarders, aka they like to acquire stuff and keep it. It happens in real life too and has nothing to do with any issue. Grinding is not fun, but some of us do it because we want something in particular which might be super expensive and it would have months before achieving it with the rewards given from the story or the actual events. I bought recently 6 divinity runes that broke me completely. I did not do it because I have self-esteem issues, but rather because I like a balanced stat. At 13g per rune, the time required to achieve that without farming is quite high unless you play TP, which is still grinding but in a different manner, so learn the difference before accusing people .

This is a different issue entirely. Divinity Runes are arguably the best runes in the game, which is why the price is so high. You are grinding to make your character the most competitve character you can which isn’t a bad thing. Nobody truly wants their characters to be less than optimal. You aren’t a part of the group that I was referring to. Nobody can see you runes and you and you didn’t acquire those runes to acquire a sense of self worth.

In my opinion all of the Runes should be sold by vendors for super cheap. Almost to the point of where they’re giving them away. I think it’s a bad design to make a certain level of gear and accessories out of reach for many players. It limits build diversity and when people get stuck playing the exact same build with the exact same weapons and skills for 1,000+ hours they will naturally get bored. Variety really is the spice of life. It’s funny how the developers at ANet can clearly see this and then scratch their head wondering why people in the game are bored with it. I do like the rare skins and I think they are doing it right in their future update by allowing players with a Legendary to switch on the fly the weapon stats to any weapon set stat in game. However, I do not agree with harder to acquire than normal ascended gear though which will be a real killer to diversity. Everyone will be locked into their chosen builds. I don’t know why they stepped away from the winning formula they had in GW1. You could acquire any max stat weapon in like 20 minutes of play. It won’t be the best looking piece of equipement but at least you’re not at a distinct disadvantage when compared to your peers.

skyshock.3679:

Wow, the self proclaimed educated MMORPG/psychology professor provides us with his expert opinion on MMORPG players in a video game forum… What a load of crap, really, it’s too bad I bothered myself to read that, so for everyone’s sake I won’t quote you on those “thoughts” of yours and make other people read them. Just a quick note – your poor excuse for a psychoanalysis is not a valid argument against farming. You do realize, that your own replies suggest that whatever it is that players (including you) do in this game is filling a void. That also suggests that you also fall under the very same ‘MMO player’ category. Hence, even by your own standards, you are just another player with your own psychological issues, empty spaces to fill…

Guess what? Some people do like to farm. Heck, I myself sometimes and to an extent like to farm. I don’t really know why, I got the gear I need, I just feel like killing some monsters, getting some drop (whatever it is). Others like doing JPs, which I dislike. My encounters with GW2 players suggest I’m not alone on these. So how are any of your arguments about going away from farming any different from someone kittening to take away stealth, buff GS for ranger, make some of the new content easier or harder, or how would that differ from me asking to loose JPs because I dislike them? Don’t like it – don’t do it. This game has a lot of stuff you can do and farming is just one of those things.

If you want to farm then farm. I’m don’t mind it all. Farm away, that’s basically what they created with the recent QJ release. Farm all you want it doesn’t hurt me. I was referring to Progression players not people that just like to kill things for hours on end. I think that people should be able to play how they want to play and get the rewards they want. In PvE at least. Group, Solo, Farm, Hardcore, Casual, etc… I say let them all play how they want to play. And FYI Everyone has issues. And by everyone I mean everyone, myself included, just not the ones I mentioned.

Mesket.5728:

Players don’t want to farm… Players wants rewards and progress.

Since there are none, they invent one (like Legendaries as one example) and farm for it.

ANet is so deep into pulling us to the gem market (who can blame them, it’s their business) that everything new must be VERY expensive and on extreme random chances… basically they are pushing players to it.

So yeah, this game was actually made for grinding, and it subsists on more and more grinding. Don’t like grinding? pay money for “money”.

Too be honest this is pretty accurate to me.

On a side note some percentage do like to farm not just gold farmers etc, i like the option to farm occasionally, if i need plenty of something to make something then i’ll farm to make it (if its easy).

But in this game i cannot i have no choice. I do not farm 24/7.

Theplayboy.6417:

Lambent.6375:

Theplayboy.6417:

Vol.5241:

Theplayboy.6417:

Absolutely hate farming and the philosophy behind it. I don’t think a lot of players like farming they just like loot. To be honest a lot of MMO Players, particularly Progression Type players often have Self Esteem Issues and other Psychological Problems. Progression and obtaining rare gear or equipment gives them something to be proud of and allows them for once in their lives to be successful at something and rise above their peers. No longer are they that weird rejected kid with poor social skills, they are now powerful and 1337 and they believe that other players look at them enviously. Once this wears off they move to another game and rinse and repeat. It’s a sad reality really.

progression type players have self-esteem and psychological problems? the kitten?

Maybe they like dedicating time and effort into a game and be rewarded with trinkets and trophies that they and others can appreciate? Isn’t that the whole point of an MMO?

It’s a sad situation that you actually believe your notion.

What’s more sad actually is that my notion is 100% true. And no the whole point of an MMO is to generate revenue. You know, real world stuff?

All that aside it seems the reason you play an MMO is to be rewarded with trinkets and trophies to be proud of and show off in-game believing that other players will appreciate them? Go ahead and read my paragraphs again and take a look in the mirror. Don’t forget to tally up the number of hours and money spent playing this MMO and any other MMO in your past. Speaking of those past MMOs how are the virtual goodies you earned in those games working out for you now? All of it is just a temporary patch to fill the space from whatever is truly missing from your life. It’s a decent patch but it won’t fill the void.

No it’s not.

Your bold HTML didn’t work. But it IS 100% true. Game companies these days know this and are preying upon it. MMO’s specifically are making a killing…….

It’s not 100% true, because, for instance, that’s not why I play this game, or Minecraft, or used to play Ultima Online. It’s not why I follow a few friends through game after game playing around with silly stuff and chucking it in the corner when it’s out of focus.

(Case in point, Animal Crossing games – I spent almost a year on one before all my friends no longer did anything so it was no more fun to play . . . and I now have a game which I can’t do anything with.)

If I don’t have people I want to associate with, or don’t have fun with, I will not play it. It’s not about the shinies or achievements, or awesome things . . . it’s about having fun fooling around with people.

I don’t really mind the farming because I really like the combat, so to me it doesn’t feel like a grind (I play ele / engi / thief)

Kirschwasser.3972:

Theplayboy.6417:

Vol.5241:

Theplayboy.6417:

Absolutely hate farming and the philosophy behind it. I don’t think a lot of players like farming they just like loot. To be honest a lot of MMO Players, particularly Progression Type players often have Self Esteem Issues and other Psychological Problems. Progression and obtaining rare gear or equipment gives them something to be proud of and allows them for once in their lives to be successful at something and rise above their peers. No longer are they that weird rejected kid with poor social skills, they are now powerful and 1337 and they believe that other players look at them enviously. Once this wears off they move to another game and rinse and repeat. It’s a sad reality really.

progression type players have self-esteem and psychological problems? the kitten?

Maybe they like dedicating time and effort into a game and be rewarded with trinkets and trophies that they and others can appreciate? Isn’t that the whole point of an MMO?

It’s a sad situation that you actually believe your notion.

What’s more sad actually is that my notion is 100% true. And no the whole point of an MMO is to generate revenue. You know, real world stuff?

All that aside it seems the reason you play an MMO is to be rewarded with trinkets and trophies to be proud of and show off in-game believing that other players will appreciate them? Go ahead and read my paragraphs again and take a look in the mirror. Don’t forget to tally up the number of hours and money spent playing this MMO and any other MMO in your past. Speaking of those past MMOs how are the virtual goodies you earned in those games working out for you now? All of it is just a temporary patch to fill the space from whatever is truly missing from your life. It’s a decent patch but it won’t fill the void.

I love it when college kids take a year of General Psych and fancy themselves experts in Behavioral Science.

Maybe those players just legitimately enjoy it and like having things to show off with other players? Just because they want have things to enjoy and show off doesn’t mean they have psychological issues. It really could be that they just like being a walking trophy rack of their accomplishments, it becomes a sort of challenge for them to measure themselves against the achievements of others who are playing.

To say this ties into self-esteem issues and other psychological issues is the worst case of armchair psychology I’ve seen on these forums and I should hope your professor smacks you upside the face for it.

If you don’t -have- a professor, then I can only assume you’re absolutely unqualified to be trying to claim psychological issues with people enjoying something you don’t.

Wow….So emotional, angry, and defensive. Would you like to talk about your problems?