Guild Wars 2

After 8 straight losses in pvp ( almost all of them by blowout ) and several houurs trying to complete a near impossible task in Pve; I ask myself if ANET and I have the same understanding of “game.”

To me, a game is something intended to be fun and relaxing.

To make a game fun, the player in question needs to win at least some of the time. This is why games like “Greedy” are popular.. they are random enough that the wins are fairly evenly distributed.

I’m logging off with yet another headache after yet another long unproductive night of being hammered. Not fun.

Well, in PvP, the better player wins. If I joined PvP, I would get pwned probably 50 times before I get a win, because I never played PvP in GW2.

May I ask what the task was?

ArenaNet devs or designers tend to create Nintendo-Hard encounters.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard

That is their understanding of “game”, so it’s quite possible that yours is different.

Why do things in the game that you don’t enjoy?

It’s a serious question, as we all might need the reminder sometimes (especially with MMOs) that if it’s not enjoyable, it’s probably better to not do it.

Tanner Blackfeather.6509:

Why do things in the game that you don’t enjoy?

It’s a serious question, as we all might need the reminder sometimes (especially with MMOs) that if it’s not enjoyable, it’s probably better to not do it.

Because you want something greater than the task at hand. Mastery Points maybe or some item. I am willing to grind a bit because of the fun I have with the reward later on.

Faaris.8013:

Tanner Blackfeather.6509:

Why do things in the game that you don’t enjoy?

It’s a serious question, as we all might need the reminder sometimes (especially with MMOs) that if it’s not enjoyable, it’s probably better to not do it.

Because you want something greater than the task at hand. Mastery Points maybe or some item. I am willing to grind a bit because of the fun I have with the reward later on.

Sure. But there’s a limit to that. If I hate sPvP, or otherwise find the gamemode purely frustrating, then I write off rewards from that as simply not obtainable for me.

My guess for what the OP was doing is Dailies, which is a very bad idea to shackle oneself to. If a daily is frustrating, those 10 AP, 3 Spirit Shards and 2 gold is simply bot worth it!

Tanner Blackfeather.6509:

My guess for what the OP was doing is Dailies, which is a very bad idea to shackle oneself to. If a daily is frustrating, those 10 AP, 3 Spirit Shards and 2 gold is simply bot worth it!

Given that the OP has been posting vociferously on the PvP forums for years, and has constantly complained about both ranked and unranked, I’m pretty sure he is much more dedicated to sPvP than simply wanting dailies. I’m also fairly certain based on his comments in the pvp forum that he does not perform well and might have some handicap that is inhibiting his ability to be competitive with other players even after all his experience in the mode.

Faaris.8013:

Well, in PvP, the better player wins. If I joined PvP, I would get pwned probably 50 times before I get a win, because I never played PvP in GW2.

There are games that pair you with people of a similar skill so you have a better chance of winning…

Faaris.8013:

May I ask what the task was?

ArenaNet devs or designers tend to create Nintendo-Hard encounters.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard

That is their understanding of “game”

According to what?

Djinn.9245:

According to what?

I elaborated it in this post a bit more:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lwd/this-cadeceus-fight/first#post6551985

and apparently, I’m not alone with this opinion.

Faaris.8013:

Djinn.9245:

According to what?

I elaborated it in this post a bit more:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lwd/this-cadeceus-fight/first#post6551985

and apparently, I’m not alone with this opinion.

I understand why you feel they create this type of difficulty. My question was about your statement “That is their understanding of ‘game’”. How do you know what Anet’s understanding is? Did you read it somewhere? Please provide that information.

Faaris.8013:

Djinn.9245:

According to what?

I elaborated it in this post a bit more:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lwd/this-cadeceus-fight/first#post6551985

and apparently, I’m not alone with this opinion.

The caduceus fight is not a example of Nintendo hard. While difficult, all of the fight’s mechanics are telegraphed.

For something to be Nintendo hard it has to have mechanics that can not be avoided without prior knowledge of those mechanics. Tribulation mode on SAB is a good example of Nintendo Hard. However I was able to 1-shot the caduceus fight, which indicates that it’s not Nintendo hard.

Anet is fairly good at avoiding Nintendo hard. The only real examples of Nintendo hard in the game are SAB (where it’s intentional) and a few of the raid mechanics.

Actually there’s nothing in the definition of game that says it has to be relaxing and everyone’s definition of fun is different.

I know people who love failing over and over again to get better at something to overcome it. There are people who find that fun.

I’m pretty sure that football is a game and most people don’t find it relaxing.

Djinn.9245:

My question was about your statement “That is their understanding of ‘game’”. How do you know what Anet’s understanding is? Did you read it somewhere? Please provide that information.

To be honest Djinn, I’m tired of your permanent desire to find errors and false statements, while everybody who can read between lines clearly knows that what was written is an opinion or an impression, based on indicators rather than evidence. You don’t need to point out every time that something you write is your opinion or that you believe that something is like this or that. 90% of what people write in forums is an opinion. If you see something that doesn’t have a source or evidence attached, treat it as an opinion, it’s that simple.

Would it make you happier if I had worded it like this: “My impression is that this is their understanding of ‘game’”? Adding this to all the stuff we write wouldn’t make it more readable or easier to understand (no, I do not have evidence for this statement).

I don’t remember what your method is called in communication theory, but please try to stop it. You are not adding any value to discussions by doing this.

Thank you

Faaris.8013:

Djinn.9245:

My question was about your statement “That is their understanding of ‘game’”. How do you know what Anet’s understanding is? Did you read it somewhere? Please provide that information.

To be honest Djinn, I’m tired of your permanent desire to find errors and false statements, while everybody who can read between lines clearly knows that what was written is an opinion or an impression, based on indicators rather than evidence. You don’t need to point out every time that something you write is your opinion or that you believe that something is like this or that. 90% of what people write in forums is an opinion. If you see something that doesn’t have a source or evidence attached, treat it as an opinion, it’s that simple.

Would it make you happier if I had worded it like this: “My impression is that this is their understanding of ‘game’”? Adding this to all the stuff we write wouldn’t make it more readable or easier to understand (no, I do not have evidence for this statement).

I don’t remember what your method is called in communication theory, but please try to stop it. You are not adding any value to discussions by doing this.

Thank you

I’ll have to agree with Djinn here; stating opinion as fact is really not a good communication policy. You could easily have said “This seems like their understanding” etcetera, which would have made it clear that you were stating an opinion.

That aside, I also don’t agree with the assessment of Anet’s understanding; I see very few similarities between GW2 and “Nintendo hard”. Then again, that’s just my opinion

Faaris.8013:

Djinn.9245:

My question was about your statement “That is their understanding of ‘game’”. How do you know what Anet’s understanding is? Did you read it somewhere? Please provide that information.

To be honest Djinn, I’m tired of your permanent desire to find errors and false statements, while everybody who can read between lines clearly knows that what was written is an opinion or an impression, based on indicators rather than evidence. You don’t need to point out every time that something you write is your opinion or that you believe that something is like this or that. 90% of what people write in forums is an opinion. If you see something that doesn’t have a source or evidence attached, treat it as an opinion, it’s that simple.

Would it make you happier if I had worded it like this: “My impression is that this is their understanding of ‘game’”? Adding this to all the stuff we write wouldn’t make it more readable or easier to understand (no, I do not have evidence for this statement).

I don’t remember what your method is called in communication theory, but please try to stop it. You are not adding any value to discussions by doing this.

Thank you

I’m sorry that you got defensive regarding my question about the source for your statement. You made a statement about Anet’s understanding. I wanted to know where you got that information.

And no, making a statement about how someone else thinks, feels, etc. can never be “understood” to be your opinion.

Faaris.8013:

apparently, I’m not alone with this opinion.

There are millions of people who have played GW2 — it’s very unlikely that we’re alone in any particular opinion. (Besides which, the forums are a good place to find negative opinions; people who enjoy the game often don’t stop to say so.)

I’m genuinely sorry that you’re not enjoying the game as much as I have. That doesn’t, by itself, mean that something is wrong.

Games can be challenging for the sake of achievement purposes. Ever play Super Meat Boy? Crash Bandicoot? Platformers?

I love challenge in gaming since it provides an invigorating experience.

Faaris.8013:

Djinn.9245:

My question was about your statement “That is their understanding of ‘game’”. How do you know what Anet’s understanding is? Did you read it somewhere? Please provide that information.

To be honest Djinn, I’m tired of your permanent desire to find errors and false statements, while everybody who can read between lines clearly knows that what was written is an opinion or an impression, based on indicators rather than evidence. You don’t need to point out every time that something you write is your opinion or that you believe that something is like this or that. 90% of what people write in forums is an opinion. If you see something that doesn’t have a source or evidence attached, treat it as an opinion, it’s that simple.

Would it make you happier if I had worded it like this: “My impression is that this is their understanding of ‘game’”? Adding this to all the stuff we write wouldn’t make it more readable or easier to understand (no, I do not have evidence for this statement).

I don’t remember what your method is called in communication theory, but please try to stop it. You are not adding any value to discussions by doing this.

Thank you

Inflection, emotion, intention, innuendo and subtext are often very hard to perceive when untrained writers (and often trained ones) put pen to paper so to speak.

A person cannot blame others for they way they interpret passages of others. When you or I write something, we often know exactly what we mean. When others read it they may not.

I have seen many of Djinn’s posts. He is very factual and succinct. I don’t believe he was needling you or trying to punch holes in what you or anyone comment on. He is just getting clarification.

I think the case here is you need to look at your own writing objectively. I agree with Djinn. It may have been your opinion you were trying to express but it came across as fact. You may have seen what you wrote as having indicators, but I too and others probably didn’t. You knew your intentions, we did not.

As he and others have said, fun and relaxing are subjective. Even so, Anet cannot make sure you get to beat other players in sPvP. If you lose many matches in a row, that is luck of the draw. There is no way Anet can assure a win for you when you are battling other real people. They can gear the game toward players winning more than losing in PvE, but no where else.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/game

It definitely fits the definition of a game. What you’re describing is a “casual game.” GW2 can be that, too, but if you’re looking for it in PvP you will not find it.

jheryn.8390:

It may have been your opinion you were trying to express but it came across as fact.

Which is irrelevant. In a debate you argue on the merits of your opponent’s statements, regardless of whether those statements are a opinion, statistical fact, or a vociferous diatribe. Squabbling over whether a statement is a opinion or fact is the argument of a plebian incapable of mounting intelligent discourse.

I grow tired of how many threads get derailed by petty arguments over trivialities.

Crinn.7864:

jheryn.8390:

It may have been your opinion you were trying to express but it came across as fact.

Which is irrelevant. In a debate you argue on the merits of your opponent’s statements, regardless of whether those statements are a opinion, statistical fact, or a vociferous diatribe. Squabbling over whether a statement is a opinion or fact is the argument of a plebian incapable of mounting intelligent discourse.

I grow tired of how many threads get derailed by petty arguments over trivialities.

It is anything but irrelevant because you just more or less repeated what I said. It doesn’t matter if he thought he was delivering an opinion, it came across as a fact. In other words, the merit of his actual statement. Also, debate is oral and even there inflection and voice tone play a part.

And you grow tired of it but it didn’t stop you from adding to the derailment. Because honestly, what did YOU add to the OP’s topic?

jheryn.8390:

Crinn.7864:

jheryn.8390:

It may have been your opinion you were trying to express but it came across as fact.

Which is irrelevant. In a debate you argue on the merits of your opponent’s statements, regardless of whether those statements are a opinion, statistical fact, or a vociferous diatribe. Squabbling over whether a statement is a opinion or fact is the argument of a plebian incapable of mounting intelligent discourse.

I grow tired of how many threads get derailed by petty arguments over trivialities.

It is anything but irrelevant because you just more or less repeated what I said. It doesn’t matter if he thought he was delivering an opinion, it came across as a fact. In other words, the merit of his actual statement. Also, debate is oral and even there inflection and voice tone play a part.

And you grow tired of it but it didn’t stop you from adding to the derailment. Because honestly, what did YOU add to the OP’s topic?

/popcorn, keep trying to have the last word son, this is entertaining.

On topic…

Different people have different desires when it comes to fun. Also, the game has enough action elements that factors like connection, how well/quickly your system renders objects and NPC’s and twitch reflexes play a larger part in success than slower games (like the Big Kahuna). That’s why we see some people saying the game is hard, while others say even raids are too easy.

Without knowing more about what you were trying to do, and with what profession and build, it’s next to impossible to offer advice on how to change your experience. So, I’m going to take your post as serving a need to vent until and unless we see more from you. If you want advice, I’m sure someone will offer it, as long as you can pick it out from the usual internet forum derails about verbiage.

Faaris.8013:

Well, in PvP, the better player wins.

In theory. In reality, I get tons of AFK/idle players and trolls in PvP. Where is the fun in that?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I’m genuinely sorry that you’re not enjoying the game as much as I have. That doesn’t, by itself, mean that something is wrong.

Have you even read the post I made about Nintendo-Hard I linked to?

Let me quote my last sentence:

But somehow, I guess the gamer part of my brain is hard-wired to this masochistic experience, and that’s why I enjoy the game in general. Thank you Nintendo!

Djinn.9245:

I’m sorry that you got defensive regarding my question about the source for your statement.

How do you get the idea that I got defensive regarding your question? I could as well ask you why you didn’t wrote “I’m sorry, I feel that you got defensive regarding my question.” and then ask you for specific quotes that prove that my post was defensive.

See what I did? You are not sorry at all, this is just another condescending phrase the way you use it. If you had been interested in a discussion or to learn more about my opinion, you would have asked “Why do you think this game is Nintendo-Hard?”.

Good luck and bye bye, I’m done wasting time with petty arguments.

Faaris.8013:

Djinn.9245:

I’m sorry that you got defensive regarding my question about the source for your statement.

How do you get the idea that I got defensive regarding your question? I could as well ask you why you didn’t wrote “I’m sorry, I feel that you got defensive regarding my question.” and then ask you for specific quotes that prove that my post was defensive.

See what I did? You are not sorry at all, this is just another condescending phrase the way you use it.

Good luck and bye bye, I’m done wasting time with petty arguments.

Is this an ironic post?

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Faaris.8013:

Djinn.9245:

I’m sorry that you got defensive regarding my question about the source for your statement.

How do you get the idea that I got defensive regarding your question? I could as well ask you why you didn’t wrote “I’m sorry, I feel that you got defensive regarding my question.” and then ask you for specific quotes that prove that my post was defensive.

See what I did? You are not sorry at all, this is just another condescending phrase the way you use it.

Good luck and bye bye, I’m done wasting time with petty arguments.

Is this an ironic post?

It must be mate, or the person cant actualy answer said question and instead lash out.

if you lose, you make someone win.

that’s the game. it’s all you.

… get gud !?!?!?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I’m genuinely sorry that you’re not enjoying the game as much as I have. That doesn’t, by itself, mean that something is wrong.

Faaris.8013:

Have you even read the post I made about Nintendo-Hard I linked to?

Let me quote my last sentence:

But somehow, I guess the gamer part of my brain is hard-wired to this masochistic experience, and that’s why I enjoy the game in general. Thank you Nintendo!

I apologize: the “you” in my statement was referring to the OP, who isn’t enjoying it.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I apologize: the “you” in my statement was referring to the OP, who isn’t enjoying it.

Sorry for having been rude, I was a bit kittened about other things when I worded my reply that way.

jheryn.8390:

Crinn.7864:

jheryn.8390:

It may have been your opinion you were trying to express but it came across as fact.

Which is irrelevant. In a debate you argue on the merits of your opponent’s statements, regardless of whether those statements are a opinion, statistical fact, or a vociferous diatribe. Squabbling over whether a statement is a opinion or fact is the argument of a plebian incapable of mounting intelligent discourse.

I grow tired of how many threads get derailed by petty arguments over trivialities.

It is anything but irrelevant because you just more or less repeated what I said. It doesn’t matter if he thought he was delivering an opinion, it came across as a fact. In other words, the merit of his actual statement. Also, debate is oral and even there inflection and voice tone play a part.

And you grow tired of it but it didn’t stop you from adding to the derailment. Because honestly, what did YOU add to the OP’s topic?

Oh really? So you and Djinn took the OP’s statement “This is ANet’s understanding of game” as an indication of his mystical mind-reading powers? Truly?

I mean, I’m not the brightest bulb but it seems to me the post was easily understood and required no clarification: The OP is salty he lost in PvP and then got his butt kicked in PvE, too. Now he’s on the forums complaining about it.

Was that so hard to understand? kitten .

AliamRationem.5172:

jheryn.8390:

Crinn.7864:

jheryn.8390:

It may have been your opinion you were trying to express but it came across as fact.

Which is irrelevant. In a debate you argue on the merits of your opponent’s statements, regardless of whether those statements are a opinion, statistical fact, or a vociferous diatribe. Squabbling over whether a statement is a opinion or fact is the argument of a plebian incapable of mounting intelligent discourse.

I grow tired of how many threads get derailed by petty arguments over trivialities.

It is anything but irrelevant because you just more or less repeated what I said. It doesn’t matter if he thought he was delivering an opinion, it came across as a fact. In other words, the merit of his actual statement. Also, debate is oral and even there inflection and voice tone play a part.

And you grow tired of it but it didn’t stop you from adding to the derailment. Because honestly, what did YOU add to the OP’s topic?

Oh really? So you and Djinn took the OP’s statement “This is ANet’s understanding of game” as an indication of his mystical mind-reading powers? Truly?

I mean, I’m not the brightest bulb but it seems to me the post was easily understood and required no clarification: The OP is salty he lost in PvP and then got his butt kicked in PvE, too. Now he’s on the forums complaining about it.

Was that so hard to understand? kitten .

No, I asked where Anet had stated that. If Anet had made that statement I would like to know. I honestly don’t understand why some people get so hurt that someone asks for more information when someone makes a definitive statement.

VaaCrow.3076:

jheryn.8390:

Crinn.7864:

jheryn.8390:

It may have been your opinion you were trying to express but it came across as fact.

Which is irrelevant. In a debate you argue on the merits of your opponent’s statements, regardless of whether those statements are a opinion, statistical fact, or a vociferous diatribe. Squabbling over whether a statement is a opinion or fact is the argument of a plebian incapable of mounting intelligent discourse.

I grow tired of how many threads get derailed by petty arguments over trivialities.

It is anything but irrelevant because you just more or less repeated what I said. It doesn’t matter if he thought he was delivering an opinion, it came across as a fact. In other words, the merit of his actual statement. Also, debate is oral and even there inflection and voice tone play a part.

And you grow tired of it but it didn’t stop you from adding to the derailment. Because honestly, what did YOU add to the OP’s topic?

/popcorn, keep trying to have the last word son, this is entertaining.

Exactly how do I keep trying when this is my first reply to this person?

jheryn.8390:

VaaCrow.3076:

jheryn.8390:

Crinn.7864:

jheryn.8390:

It may have been your opinion you were trying to express but it came across as fact.

Which is irrelevant. In a debate you argue on the merits of your opponent’s statements, regardless of whether those statements are a opinion, statistical fact, or a vociferous diatribe. Squabbling over whether a statement is a opinion or fact is the argument of a plebian incapable of mounting intelligent discourse.

I grow tired of how many threads get derailed by petty arguments over trivialities.

It is anything but irrelevant because you just more or less repeated what I said. It doesn’t matter if he thought he was delivering an opinion, it came across as a fact. In other words, the merit of his actual statement. Also, debate is oral and even there inflection and voice tone play a part.

And you grow tired of it but it didn’t stop you from adding to the derailment. Because honestly, what did YOU add to the OP’s topic?

/popcorn, keep trying to have the last word son, this is entertaining.

Exactly how I keep trying when this is my first reply to this person?

RIF

AliamRationem.5172:

jheryn.8390:

Crinn.7864:

jheryn.8390:

It may have been your opinion you were trying to express but it came across as fact.

Which is irrelevant. In a debate you argue on the merits of your opponent’s statements, regardless of whether those statements are a opinion, statistical fact, or a vociferous diatribe. Squabbling over whether a statement is a opinion or fact is the argument of a plebian incapable of mounting intelligent discourse.

I grow tired of how many threads get derailed by petty arguments over trivialities.

It is anything but irrelevant because you just more or less repeated what I said. It doesn’t matter if he thought he was delivering an opinion, it came across as a fact. In other words, the merit of his actual statement. Also, debate is oral and even there inflection and voice tone play a part.

And you grow tired of it but it didn’t stop you from adding to the derailment. Because honestly, what did YOU add to the OP’s topic?

Oh really? So you and Djinn took the OP’s statement “This is ANet’s understanding of game” as an indication of his mystical mind-reading powers? Truly?

I mean, I’m not the brightest bulb but it seems to me the post was easily understood and required no clarification: The OP is salty he lost in PvP and then got his butt kicked in PvE, too. Now he’s on the forums complaining about it.

Was that so hard to understand? kitten .

As I stated, and you obviously didn’t understand, is that it is perception. What I perceive someone saying and what you may perceive can be completely different. So like the OP, you got bent out of shape because we perceive something different? Interesting.

I agree with you, although I said it much more politely, the OP was complaining about not winning in PvP and tried to tell him that Anet cannot fix player versus player so he can win. Did you not understand that either?