Guild Wars 2

Need to be reversed. considering how easy it is to lose these pets in a very simple fight because of aoe, their limited time, and lack of control and bad habit run off on its own to die when we aren’t looking is this really worth putting a 30 min summon restriction?

Considering how much power they grant for about a silver each… don’t hold you breath.

You can heal them BTW. Traits like Battle Presence make them last much longer .

This nerf had to do with addressing one encounter with the usual lack of consideration of the other 99% of the game. It’s just bad design made manifest.

It’s addressing lag in big world encounters and dungeons and temples which are major parts of this game. I don’t see people popping elementals at the bandit even in Queensdale.

That’s just bullkitten. They know it. We all know it. All those useless NPCs don’t affect servers(only players) but suddenly a few people using embers in dungeons is breaking the game. Next thing they’ll say is the stealth from feathers caused huge lag spikes.
Instead of buffing dungeon rewards they’re slowing the runs a bit. Not even that because only bads need feathers and summons are used in record runs to push huge feedbacks or other gimmicky things like transition grubs etc. on which the cooldown has no impact anyways.

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

thats like saying its a drain of resources when a player is over using a flashy skill. whats next? putting a limit on how many attacks can be active in a map at once.

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

thats like saying its a drain of resources when a player is over using a flashy skill. whats next? putting a limit on how many attacks can be active in a map at once.

It’s nothing like that. Players use skills but still need to be animated separately. Imps use skills too, and still have to be animated. It’s another thing for the server to track and keep track of.

A skill animation has no health, has no armor, it’s just a picture of what you’re doing. An summoned elemental (or anything else for that matter), not so much.

Vayne.8563:

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

thats like saying its a drain of resources when a player is over using a flashy skill. whats next? putting a limit on how many attacks can be active in a map at once.

It’s nothing like that. Players use skills but still need to be animated separately. Imps use skills too, and still have to be animated. It’s another thing for the server to track and keep track of.

A skill animation has no health, has no armor, it’s just a picture of what you’re doing. An summoned elemental (or anything else for that matter), not so much.

Ok I was see your point when I look at it like that but it still feels stupid that it would be around the same level of resource as an enemy/ally NPC when has proven they have no problem flooding a zone with hoards of enemies for events so but a few embers and orc pets following us is suddenly a major issue that had to be nerfed into the ground this late into the games creation seems fishy

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Vayne.8563:

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

thats like saying its a drain of resources when a player is over using a flashy skill. whats next? putting a limit on how many attacks can be active in a map at once.

It’s nothing like that. Players use skills but still need to be animated separately. Imps use skills too, and still have to be animated. It’s another thing for the server to track and keep track of.

A skill animation has no health, has no armor, it’s just a picture of what you’re doing. An summoned elemental (or anything else for that matter), not so much.

Ok I was see your point when I look at it like that but it still feels stupid that it would be around the same level of resource as an enemy/ally NPC when has proven they have no problem flooding a zone with hoards of enemies for events so but a few embers and orc pets following us is suddenly a major issue that had to be nerfed into the ground this late into the games creation seems fishy

It’s not a few. Look at the dungeon situation. This is how devs explained it.

Someone asked since dungeons only have 5 people, why can’t we have pets in dungeons with no cool down. After all, if everyone had an ember out it’s only 10 people per map. But map doesn’t necessarily equal server.

The dungeons have servers. The servers have capacities. 150 people each using 1 ember in different dungeons will stress the server as much as someone using 150 in 1 dungeon.

You’re seeing a server and you’re thinking it’s only 20 more, but you’re assuming for every server and overflow there’s like a separate computer. Each overflow and each map is a virtual space, not a physical space.

The system is handing multiple overflows. The processor isn’t just calculating your overflow separately. It can’t. They can’t have an infinite number of machines lying around to create an infinite number of overflows.

To you it’s your map and there’s only 20 more things on your map. But the other maps on that server are all likely on the same systems. So you’re not just counting what’s on your specific map, see?

Well it’s quite obvious the nerf was introduced to avoid easy completion of the new wurm event by continuous use of adds.

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

I would ordinarily laugh at a statement like this as it should be absurd. However, think it through. Anet is not even able to manage condition damage by player, something any major title will do as a matter of course. It should be embarrassing for them to admit it, but I suppose this could be true. Given the lagfest that is any large encounter, the game may actually be this fragile.

OmniPotentes.4817:

Well it’s quite obvious the nerve was introduced to avoid easy completion of the new wurm event by continuous use of adds.

I’m not sure how you reached this conclusion. Unless you’re willing to come right out and say Anet is lying (probably not a great idea because there’s no proof of this), having 150 people on a server, with 150 continuous fire elementals probably would slow things down to a crawl. Lots of people complain about lag and frame rate drop during big events.

How do you know that Anet didn’t nerf this to prevent a bad lag situation….like they said?

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

I would ordinarily laugh at a statement like this as it should be absurd. However, think it through. Anet is not even able to manage condition damage by player, something any major title will do as a matter of course. It should be embarrassing for them to admit it, but I suppose this could be true. Given the lagfest that is any large encounter, the game may actually be this fragile.

Josh Foreman said it in another thread. His example was the dungeon example. He said, directly that 150 people using 1 ember in a dungeon each is no different than 150 people using an ember on a single map.

That’s a direct statement.

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

I would ordinarily laugh at a statement like this as it should be absurd. However, think it through. Anet is not even able to manage condition damage by player, something any major title will do as a matter of course. It should be embarrassing for them to admit it, but I suppose this could be true. Given the lagfest that is any large encounter, the game may actually be this fragile.

Josh Foreman said it in another thread. His example was the dungeon example. He said, directly that 150 people using 1 ember in a dungeon each is no different than 150 people using an ember on a single map.

That’s a direct statement.

How many dungeons have you been in with 150 people? Dungeons are instanced; there should be no performance issue if every member of a party had an ember up. However, this isn’t a normal game obviously, so I’m willing to entertain the notion that embers actually do represent a performance problem. It would be absurd if they do, but probably is the case in GW2. As I mentioned they played the technical limitations card around managing condition damage by player which every major title can do, so I actually am willing to believe them on this.

Vayne.8563:

OmniPotentes.4817:

Well it’s quite obvious the nerve was introduced to avoid easy completion of the new wurm event by continuous use of adds.

I’m not sure how you reached this conclusion. Unless you’re willing to come right out and say Anet is lying (probably not a great idea because there’s no proof of this), having 150 people on a server, with 150 continuous fire elementals probably would slow things down to a crawl. Lots of people complain about lag and frame rate drop during big events.

How do you know that Anet didn’t nerf this to prevent a bad lag situation….like they said?

We’ll it was introduced together with the wurm event. There is also a thread encouraging the use off adds or else you don’t stand a chance of completing it. I’m not calling Anet anything. I’m sure that to many adds can increase server lagg, but this has always been the case since launch, so introducing this change now and blaming server lagg for it is just a sales pitch. The true reason is the wurm event.

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

I would ordinarily laugh at a statement like this as it should be absurd. However, think it through. Anet is not even able to manage condition damage by player, something any major title will do as a matter of course. It should be embarrassing for them to admit it, but I suppose this could be true. Given the lagfest that is any large encounter, the game may actually be this fragile.

Josh Foreman said it in another thread. His example was the dungeon example. He said, directly that 150 people using 1 ember in a dungeon each is no different than 150 people using an ember on a single map.

That’s a direct statement.

How many dungeons have you been in with 150 people? Dungeons are instanced; there should be no performance issue if every member of a party had an ember up. However, this isn’t a normal game obviously, so I’m willing to entertain the notion that embers actually do represent a performance problem. It would be absurd if they do, but probably is the case in GW2. As I mentioned they played the technical limitations card around managing condition damage by player which every major title can do, so I actually am willing to believe them on this.

I don’t know how normal games (unquote) are programmed, but it seems to me completely illogical in any game for each instance to have it’s own personal server. That’s not the way the architecture works anywhere from my understanding and certainly not in the new games.

The way new games are programmed is less rigid. Processor power from one place is used when it’s needed and released when it’s not, more the way a cloud functions.

Are you assuming that a single dungeon uses server power independently of all the other dungeons occurring at the same time, because that makes no sense to me from any point of view.

The server works with a bank of processors, which run a specific series of dungeons. That is to say, one processor still does all the calculations for multiple instances. So obviously, all the instances are being calculated together. Thus summon something in separate instances would have to affect the server.

I can’t see any other way for this to be.

OmniPotentes.4817:

Vayne.8563:

OmniPotentes.4817:

Well it’s quite obvious the nerve was introduced to avoid easy completion of the new wurm event by continuous use of adds.

I’m not sure how you reached this conclusion. Unless you’re willing to come right out and say Anet is lying (probably not a great idea because there’s no proof of this), having 150 people on a server, with 150 continuous fire elementals probably would slow things down to a crawl. Lots of people complain about lag and frame rate drop during big events.

How do you know that Anet didn’t nerf this to prevent a bad lag situation….like they said?

We’ll it was introduced together with the wurm event. There is also a thread encouraging the use off adds or else you don’t stand a chance to beat the event. I’m not calling Anet anything. I’m sure that to many adds can increase server lagg, but this has always been the case since launch, so introducing this change now and blaming server lagg for it is just a sales pitch. The true reason is the wurm event.

Maybe because they’re learning from other events what’s been going on. I’ve noticed, for several weeks now, an increase in complaints about lag. So Anet fixed it in the next patch. The worse the lag gets, the more Anet has to try to do stuff about it. They’ve also introduced two big events both of which might cause problems if everyone used the wurm. The world only had the Teq event, now it has three of that difficulty (or at least in the same ball park), So triple the number of events could have meant more lag across the board.

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

I would ordinarily laugh at a statement like this as it should be absurd. However, think it through. Anet is not even able to manage condition damage by player, something any major title will do as a matter of course. It should be embarrassing for them to admit it, but I suppose this could be true. Given the lagfest that is any large encounter, the game may actually be this fragile.

Josh Foreman said it in another thread. His example was the dungeon example. He said, directly that 150 people using 1 ember in a dungeon each is no different than 150 people using an ember on a single map.

That’s a direct statement.

How many dungeons have you been in with 150 people? Dungeons are instanced; there should be no performance issue if every member of a party had an ember up. However, this isn’t a normal game obviously, so I’m willing to entertain the notion that embers actually do represent a performance problem. It would be absurd if they do, but probably is the case in GW2. As I mentioned they played the technical limitations card around managing condition damage by player which every major title can do, so I actually am willing to believe them on this.

I don’t know how normal games (unquote) are programmed, but it seems to me completely illogical in any game for each instance to have it’s own personal server. That’s not the way the architecture works anywhere from my understanding and certainly not in the new games.

The way new games are programmed is less rigid. Processor power from one place is used when it’s needed and released when it’s not, more the way a cloud functions.

Are you assuming that a single dungeon uses server power independently of all the other dungeons occurring at the same time, because that makes no sense to me from any point of view.

The server works with a bank of processors, which run a specific series of dungeons. That is to say, one processor still does all the calculations for multiple instances. So obviously, all the instances are being calculated together. Thus summon something in separate instances would have to affect the server.

I can’t see any other way for this to be.

Vayne, yeah, an instance doesn’t have a personal server. It’s just an instance with it’s own memory, etc. You can’t see any other way for this to be because you don’t understand how software works. Short of you becoming a developer, I don’t know how we could proceed here. You might ask yourself how other games pull off things like managing condition damage by player. The technical limitations of GW2 are all self-imposed.

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

I would ordinarily laugh at a statement like this as it should be absurd. However, think it through. Anet is not even able to manage condition damage by player, something any major title will do as a matter of course. It should be embarrassing for them to admit it, but I suppose this could be true. Given the lagfest that is any large encounter, the game may actually be this fragile.

Josh Foreman said it in another thread. His example was the dungeon example. He said, directly that 150 people using 1 ember in a dungeon each is no different than 150 people using an ember on a single map.

That’s a direct statement.

How many dungeons have you been in with 150 people? Dungeons are instanced; there should be no performance issue if every member of a party had an ember up. However, this isn’t a normal game obviously, so I’m willing to entertain the notion that embers actually do represent a performance problem. It would be absurd if they do, but probably is the case in GW2. As I mentioned they played the technical limitations card around managing condition damage by player which every major title can do, so I actually am willing to believe them on this.

I don’t know how normal games (unquote) are programmed, but it seems to me completely illogical in any game for each instance to have it’s own personal server. That’s not the way the architecture works anywhere from my understanding and certainly not in the new games.

The way new games are programmed is less rigid. Processor power from one place is used when it’s needed and released when it’s not, more the way a cloud functions.

Are you assuming that a single dungeon uses server power independently of all the other dungeons occurring at the same time, because that makes no sense to me from any point of view.

The server works with a bank of processors, which run a specific series of dungeons. That is to say, one processor still does all the calculations for multiple instances. So obviously, all the instances are being calculated together. Thus summon something in separate instances would have to affect the server.

I can’t see any other way for this to be.

Vayne, yeah, an instance doesn’t have a personal server. It’s just an instance with it’s own memory, etc. You can’t see any other way for this to be because you don’t understand how software works. Short of you becoming a developer, I don’t know how we could proceed here.

I didn’t realize you were a developer.

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

I would ordinarily laugh at a statement like this as it should be absurd. However, think it through. Anet is not even able to manage condition damage by player, something any major title will do as a matter of course. It should be embarrassing for them to admit it, but I suppose this could be true. Given the lagfest that is any large encounter, the game may actually be this fragile.

Josh Foreman said it in another thread. His example was the dungeon example. He said, directly that 150 people using 1 ember in a dungeon each is no different than 150 people using an ember on a single map.

That’s a direct statement.

How many dungeons have you been in with 150 people? Dungeons are instanced; there should be no performance issue if every member of a party had an ember up. However, this isn’t a normal game obviously, so I’m willing to entertain the notion that embers actually do represent a performance problem. It would be absurd if they do, but probably is the case in GW2. As I mentioned they played the technical limitations card around managing condition damage by player which every major title can do, so I actually am willing to believe them on this.

I don’t know how normal games (unquote) are programmed, but it seems to me completely illogical in any game for each instance to have it’s own personal server. That’s not the way the architecture works anywhere from my understanding and certainly not in the new games.

The way new games are programmed is less rigid. Processor power from one place is used when it’s needed and released when it’s not, more the way a cloud functions.

Are you assuming that a single dungeon uses server power independently of all the other dungeons occurring at the same time, because that makes no sense to me from any point of view.

The server works with a bank of processors, which run a specific series of dungeons. That is to say, one processor still does all the calculations for multiple instances. So obviously, all the instances are being calculated together. Thus summon something in separate instances would have to affect the server.

I can’t see any other way for this to be.

Vayne, yeah, an instance doesn’t have a personal server. It’s just an instance with it’s own memory, etc. You can’t see any other way for this to be because you don’t understand how software works. Short of you becoming a developer, I don’t know how we could proceed here.

I didn’t realize you were a developer.

25+ years in IT.

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

I would ordinarily laugh at a statement like this as it should be absurd. However, think it through. Anet is not even able to manage condition damage by player, something any major title will do as a matter of course. It should be embarrassing for them to admit it, but I suppose this could be true. Given the lagfest that is any large encounter, the game may actually be this fragile.

Josh Foreman said it in another thread. His example was the dungeon example. He said, directly that 150 people using 1 ember in a dungeon each is no different than 150 people using an ember on a single map.

That’s a direct statement.

How many dungeons have you been in with 150 people? Dungeons are instanced; there should be no performance issue if every member of a party had an ember up. However, this isn’t a normal game obviously, so I’m willing to entertain the notion that embers actually do represent a performance problem. It would be absurd if they do, but probably is the case in GW2. As I mentioned they played the technical limitations card around managing condition damage by player which every major title can do, so I actually am willing to believe them on this.

I don’t know how normal games (unquote) are programmed, but it seems to me completely illogical in any game for each instance to have it’s own personal server. That’s not the way the architecture works anywhere from my understanding and certainly not in the new games.

The way new games are programmed is less rigid. Processor power from one place is used when it’s needed and released when it’s not, more the way a cloud functions.

Are you assuming that a single dungeon uses server power independently of all the other dungeons occurring at the same time, because that makes no sense to me from any point of view.

The server works with a bank of processors, which run a specific series of dungeons. That is to say, one processor still does all the calculations for multiple instances. So obviously, all the instances are being calculated together. Thus summon something in separate instances would have to affect the server.

I can’t see any other way for this to be.

Vayne, yeah, an instance doesn’t have a personal server. It’s just an instance with it’s own memory, etc. You can’t see any other way for this to be because you don’t understand how software works. Short of you becoming a developer, I don’t know how we could proceed here.

I didn’t realize you were a developer.

25+ years in IT.

But being in IT doesn’t make you a developer. I spent 19 years on the hardware end, not the software end. And I know that in the end, software depends on hardware. So the stuff you program has to be calculated somewhere.

When you say a dungeon a specific instance with it’s own memory, it still has to be sharing resources with other instances. There’s no way it can possibly have all its own resources. That would be completely prohibitive to program.

So if all the dungeons are drawing on one main area of memory using one set of processors to give them processor power, the more you draw on that resource from ALL the instances it controls, the more likely you are to lag that entire system.

Placing something in its own instance doesn’t change the way that instance reacts to hardware, unless that instance is completely isolated to its own hardware. Otherwise the system, as a whole, will experience a slowdown.

This is my understanding of the matter and nothing you’ve said so far convinces me otherwise.

For those who missed the technical reasons why that Vayne has mentioned;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Consumables-Nerf/page/4#post3535562

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Consumables-Nerf/page/4#post3535878

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.

Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?

I would ordinarily laugh at a statement like this as it should be absurd. However, think it through. Anet is not even able to manage condition damage by player, something any major title will do as a matter of course. It should be embarrassing for them to admit it, but I suppose this could be true. Given the lagfest that is any large encounter, the game may actually be this fragile.

Josh Foreman said it in another thread. His example was the dungeon example. He said, directly that 150 people using 1 ember in a dungeon each is no different than 150 people using an ember on a single map.

That’s a direct statement.

How many dungeons have you been in with 150 people? Dungeons are instanced; there should be no performance issue if every member of a party had an ember up. However, this isn’t a normal game obviously, so I’m willing to entertain the notion that embers actually do represent a performance problem. It would be absurd if they do, but probably is the case in GW2. As I mentioned they played the technical limitations card around managing condition damage by player which every major title can do, so I actually am willing to believe them on this.

I don’t know how normal games (unquote) are programmed, but it seems to me completely illogical in any game for each instance to have it’s own personal server. That’s not the way the architecture works anywhere from my understanding and certainly not in the new games.

The way new games are programmed is less rigid. Processor power from one place is used when it’s needed and released when it’s not, more the way a cloud functions.

Are you assuming that a single dungeon uses server power independently of all the other dungeons occurring at the same time, because that makes no sense to me from any point of view.

The server works with a bank of processors, which run a specific series of dungeons. That is to say, one processor still does all the calculations for multiple instances. So obviously, all the instances are being calculated together. Thus summon something in separate instances would have to affect the server.

I can’t see any other way for this to be.

Vayne, yeah, an instance doesn’t have a personal server. It’s just an instance with it’s own memory, etc. You can’t see any other way for this to be because you don’t understand how software works. Short of you becoming a developer, I don’t know how we could proceed here.

I didn’t realize you were a developer.

25+ years in IT.

But being in IT doesn’t make you a developer. I spent 19 years on the hardware end, not the software end. And I know that in the end, software depends on hardware. So the stuff you program has to be calculated somewhere.

When you say a dungeon a specific instance with it’s own memory, it still has to be sharing resources with other instances. There’s no way it can possibly have all its own resources. That would be completely prohibitive to program.

So if all the dungeons are drawing on one main area of memory using one set of processors to give them processor power, the more you draw on that resource from ALL the instances it controls, the more likely you are to lag that entire system.

Placing something in its own instance doesn’t change the way that instance reacts to hardware, unless that instance is completely isolated to its own hardware. Otherwise the system, as a whole, will experience a slowdown.

This is my understanding of the matter and nothing you’ve said so far convinces me otherwise.

Bottom line here bud, any limitations of the nature we are discussing are self-imposed through sub-optimal architecture and design. How exactly would I go about convincing you? This is simply something you understand or you don’t understand. Especially things like the way they manage condition damage. How do I know this? Because other games do this as a matter of course.

And, Vayne, you don’t even know how to talk about this. If you are going to talk software and hardware you at least need to be able to talk that trash even if you can’t do it. I do admire your pluck though.

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

snip

snip

Josh Foreman said it in another thread. His example was the dungeon example. He said, directly that 150 people using 1 ember in a dungeon each is no different than 150 people using an ember on a single map.

That’s a direct statement.

snip

I don’t know how normal games (unquote) are programmed, but it seems to me completely illogical in any game for each instance to have it’s own personal server. That’s not the way the architecture works anywhere from my understanding and certainly not in the new games.

The way new games are programmed is less rigid. Processor power from one place is used when it’s needed and released when it’s not, more the way a cloud functions.

Are you assuming that a single dungeon uses server power independently of all the other dungeons occurring at the same time, because that makes no sense to me from any point of view.

The server works with a bank of processors, which run a specific series of dungeons. That is to say, one processor still does all the calculations for multiple instances. So obviously, all the instances are being calculated together. Thus summon something in separate instances would have to affect the server.

I can’t see any other way for this to be.

Vayne, yeah, an instance doesn’t have a personal server. It’s just an instance with it’s own memory, etc. You can’t see any other way for this to be because you don’t understand how software works. Short of you becoming a developer, I don’t know how we could proceed here.

I didn’t realize you were a developer.

25+ years in IT.

But being in IT doesn’t make you a developer. I spent 19 years on the hardware end, not the software end. And I know that in the end, software depends on hardware. So the stuff you program has to be calculated somewhere.

When you say a dungeon a specific instance with it’s own memory, it still has to be sharing resources with other instances. There’s no way it can possibly have all its own resources. That would be completely prohibitive to program.

So if all the dungeons are drawing on one main area of memory using one set of processors to give them processor power, the more you draw on that resource from ALL the instances it controls, the more likely you are to lag that entire system.

Placing something in its own instance doesn’t change the way that instance reacts to hardware, unless that instance is completely isolated to its own hardware. Otherwise the system, as a whole, will experience a slowdown.

This is my understanding of the matter and nothing you’ve said so far convinces me otherwise.

Bottom line here bud, any limitations of the nature we are discussing are self-imposed through sub-optimal architecture and design. How exactly would I go about convincing you? This is simply something you understand or you don’t understand. Especially things like the way they manage condition damage. How do I know this? Because other games do this as a matter of course.

And, Vayne, you don’t even know how to talk about this. If you are going to talk software and hardware you at least need to be able to talk that trash even if you can’t do it. I do admire your pluck though.

Nothing to do about pluck. I have an idea of how stuff works. I don’t work in the industry and haven’t for many many years. Terms change. I don’t remember the name of every single concept I’ve heard…but I do have the idea.

Now you talk about games. I played Rift. I know Rift had a big event that lagged out exactly the way Guild Wars 2’s Karka event was lagged out. Worse even. So bad they had to come out and apologize publicly for the event and give everyone compensation. It was terrible. The Karka event at least worked for some people. So much for what other games can and can’t do.

A lot of the older games were designed with less server calls. That’s what global cooldowns are for and also why you can’t move while casting. Older games don’t have quite the overhead Guild Wars 2 does. You can practically run WoW on a toaster. There’s a reason for that.

I don’t see a hundred and fifty people in most MMOs in a single event, do you? So how would you start comparing?

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

snip

snip

Josh Foreman said it in another thread. His example was the dungeon example. He said, directly that 150 people using 1 ember in a dungeon each is no different than 150 people using an ember on a single map.

That’s a direct statement.

snip

I don’t know how normal games (unquote) are programmed, but it seems to me completely illogical in any game for each instance to have it’s own personal server. That’s not the way the architecture works anywhere from my understanding and certainly not in the new games.

The way new games are programmed is less rigid. Processor power from one place is used when it’s needed and released when it’s not, more the way a cloud functions.

Are you assuming that a single dungeon uses server power independently of all the other dungeons occurring at the same time, because that makes no sense to me from any point of view.

The server works with a bank of processors, which run a specific series of dungeons. That is to say, one processor still does all the calculations for multiple instances. So obviously, all the instances are being calculated together. Thus summon something in separate instances would have to affect the server.

I can’t see any other way for this to be.

Vayne, yeah, an instance doesn’t have a personal server. It’s just an instance with it’s own memory, etc. You can’t see any other way for this to be because you don’t understand how software works. Short of you becoming a developer, I don’t know how we could proceed here.

I didn’t realize you were a developer.

25+ years in IT.

But being in IT doesn’t make you a developer. I spent 19 years on the hardware end, not the software end. And I know that in the end, software depends on hardware. So the stuff you program has to be calculated somewhere.

When you say a dungeon a specific instance with it’s own memory, it still has to be sharing resources with other instances. There’s no way it can possibly have all its own resources. That would be completely prohibitive to program.

So if all the dungeons are drawing on one main area of memory using one set of processors to give them processor power, the more you draw on that resource from ALL the instances it controls, the more likely you are to lag that entire system.

Placing something in its own instance doesn’t change the way that instance reacts to hardware, unless that instance is completely isolated to its own hardware. Otherwise the system, as a whole, will experience a slowdown.

This is my understanding of the matter and nothing you’ve said so far convinces me otherwise.

Bottom line here bud, any limitations of the nature we are discussing are self-imposed through sub-optimal architecture and design. How exactly would I go about convincing you? This is simply something you understand or you don’t understand. Especially things like the way they manage condition damage. How do I know this? Because other games do this as a matter of course.

And, Vayne, you don’t even know how to talk about this. If you are going to talk software and hardware you at least need to be able to talk that trash even if you can’t do it. I do admire your pluck though.

Nothing to do about pluck. I have an idea of how stuff works. I don’t work in the industry and haven’t for many many years. Terms change. I don’t remember the name of every single concept I’ve heard…but I do have the idea.

Now you talk about games. I played Rift. I know Rift had a big event that lagged out exactly the way Guild Wars 2’s Karka event was lagged out. Worse even. So bad they had to come out and apologize publicly for the event and give everyone compensation. It was terrible. The Karka event at least worked for some people. So much for what other games can and can’t do.

A lot of the older games were designed with less server calls. That’s what global cooldowns are for and also why you can’t move while casting. Older games don’t have quite the overhead Guild Wars 2 does. You can practically run WoW on a toaster. There’s a reason for that.

I don’t see a hundred and fifty people in most MMOs in a single event, do you? So how would you start comparing?

Vayne, without doubt you have an idea about how stuff works but you don’t understand how stuff works. Commentary in an area of in-expertise is of little value.

This nerf was brought in at the exact same time as the two new open-world boss events, coincidence?

The reasoning has been explained in an off-hand and misdirectional way.

Many blame the “Teq Burn Phase” as the cause of it but it is far more probable that they were nerfed because testing of the two new bosses confirmed what the devs already knew:

The current server system cannot handle the load of the players that want to attend these events.

This leads to skill-lag and skill-fail across the board, leading to relogs and overflows and failed events.

Nerfing the most-useful consumables was just an emergency band-aid, and it’s not working.

Expect more and more limitations as we go.

anet are keen to ensure that any shortfalls in this game are absorbed by the player base rather than do any more work than is necessary to keep it up and running.

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.

snip

snip

snip

That’s a direct statement.

snip

I don’t know how normal games (unquote) are programmed, but it seems to me completely illogical in any game for each instance to have it’s own personal server. That’s not the way the architecture works anywhere from my understanding and certainly not in the new games.

The way new games are programmed is less rigid. Processor power from one place is used when it’s needed and released when it’s not, more the way a cloud functions.

Are you assuming that a single dungeon uses server power independently of all the other dungeons occurring at the same time, because that makes no sense to me from any point of view.

The server works with a bank of processors, which run a specific series of dungeons. That is to say, one processor still does all the calculations for multiple instances. So obviously, all the instances are being calculated together. Thus summon something in separate instances would have to affect the server.

I can’t see any other way for this to be.

Vayne, yeah, an instance doesn’t have a personal server. It’s just an instance with it’s own memory, etc. You can’t see any other way for this to be because you don’t understand how software works. Short of you becoming a developer, I don’t know how we could proceed here.

I didn’t realize you were a developer.

25+ years in IT.

But being in IT doesn’t make you a developer. I spent 19 years on the hardware end, not the software end. And I know that in the end, software depends on hardware. So the stuff you program has to be calculated somewhere.

When you say a dungeon a specific instance with it’s own memory, it still has to be sharing resources with other instances. There’s no way it can possibly have all its own resources. That would be completely prohibitive to program.

So if all the dungeons are drawing on one main area of memory using one set of processors to give them processor power, the more you draw on that resource from ALL the instances it controls, the more likely you are to lag that entire system.

Placing something in its own instance doesn’t change the way that instance reacts to hardware, unless that instance is completely isolated to its own hardware. Otherwise the system, as a whole, will experience a slowdown.

This is my understanding of the matter and nothing you’ve said so far convinces me otherwise.

Bottom line here bud, any limitations of the nature we are discussing are self-imposed through sub-optimal architecture and design. How exactly would I go about convincing you? This is simply something you understand or you don’t understand. Especially things like the way they manage condition damage. How do I know this? Because other games do this as a matter of course.

And, Vayne, you don’t even know how to talk about this. If you are going to talk software and hardware you at least need to be able to talk that trash even if you can’t do it. I do admire your pluck though.

Nothing to do about pluck. I have an idea of how stuff works. I don’t work in the industry and haven’t for many many years. Terms change. I don’t remember the name of every single concept I’ve heard…but I do have the idea.

Now you talk about games. I played Rift. I know Rift had a big event that lagged out exactly the way Guild Wars 2’s Karka event was lagged out. Worse even. So bad they had to come out and apologize publicly for the event and give everyone compensation. It was terrible. The Karka event at least worked for some people. So much for what other games can and can’t do.

A lot of the older games were designed with less server calls. That’s what global cooldowns are for and also why you can’t move while casting. Older games don’t have quite the overhead Guild Wars 2 does. You can practically run WoW on a toaster. There’s a reason for that.

I don’t see a hundred and fifty people in most MMOs in a single event, do you? So how would you start comparing?

Vayne, without doubt you have an idea about how stuff works but you don’t understand how stuff works. Commentary in an area of in-expertise is of little value.

I guess I’m having trouble accepting that you actually know more about software development than Anet devs.

I haven’t been with a single person that used item-pets in a dungeon since release. Maybe that’s because I don’t do any timed speedruns with the “pro’s”. I doubt the majority of the population does, though. Maybe Vayne can show us the numbers he obviously has.

Even so, are we conveniently forgetting about every other class summon? Mesmer illusions, ranger spirits + pet, necromancer minions (constant uptime!), guardian spirit weapons, elementalist summons, etc etc. Not to mention skills like warband support and thieves guild. How come all these skills lack a 30 minute cooldown? And how come Cursed Shore hasn’t crashed yet with all those minion master necromancers running around?

Truthbearer.9708:

I haven’t been with a single person that used item-pets in a dungeon since release. Maybe that’s because I don’t do any timed speedruns with the “pro’s”. I doubt the majority of the population does, though. Maybe Vayne can show us the numbers he obviously has.

Even so, are we conveniently forgetting about every other class summon? Mesmer illusions, ranger spirits + pet, necromancer minions (constant uptime!), guardian spirit weapons, elementalist summons, etc etc. Not to mention skills like warband support and thieves guild. How come all these skills lack a 30 minute cooldown? And how come Cursed Shore hasn’t crashed yet with all those minion master necromancers running around?

I don’t have numbers. I have a statement from the devs. THEY have numbers. Did you see me quote a number?

I know a lot of people DO use them including some people I run with. If you watch dungeon videos, you’ll often see them used.

Speed runners have the propensity to run LOTS of dungeons, sometimes all day over and over. Which means if only speed runners do it, and there are a bunch of speed runners, they’re screwing it up for everyone else. That I don’t deny.

But people use them because I see them in dungeon videos quite often.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t have numbers. I have a statement from the devs. THEY have numbers. Did you see me quote a number?

I know a lot of people DO use them including some people I run with. If you watch dungeon videos, you’ll often see them used.

Speed runners have the propensity to run LOTS of dungeons, sometimes all day over and over. Which means if only speed runners do it, and there are a bunch of speed runners, they’re screwing it up for everyone else. That I don’t deny.

But people use them because I see them in dungeon videos quite often.

No, you didn’t quote a number. You did however say:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies.

So obviously you must have some numbers to make a statement like this, right? And good job ignoring the rest of the post.

If performance would really be such a high priority issue, then for example veteran risen acolytes wouldn’t have been buffed to summon EVEN MORE MOBS last year among other things that strain the servers.

And what about boosting performance in WvW, specifically in EB. Maybe players should get a +60 seconds global cooldown on skills.

Truthbearer.9708:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t have numbers. I have a statement from the devs. THEY have numbers. Did you see me quote a number?

I know a lot of people DO use them including some people I run with. If you watch dungeon videos, you’ll often see them used.

Speed runners have the propensity to run LOTS of dungeons, sometimes all day over and over. Which means if only speed runners do it, and there are a bunch of speed runners, they’re screwing it up for everyone else. That I don’t deny.

But people use them because I see them in dungeon videos quite often.

No, you didn’t quote a number. You did however say:

It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies.

So obviously you must have some numbers to make a statement like this, right? And good job ignoring the rest of the post.

If performance would really be such a high priority issue, then for example veteran risen acolytes wouldn’t have been buffed to summon EVEN MORE MOBS last year among other things that strain the servers.

And what about boosting performance in WvW, specifically in EB. Maybe players should get a +60 seconds global cooldown on skills.

You don’t need numbers to watch videos and know people. You may not have noticed a decrease in dungeon performance, but I definitely have.

If you haven’t noticed one, I suspect you’d be in a minority because a lot of people are talking about it. No, I don’t have numbers. It’s still a lot of people.

Vayne.8563:

You don’t need numbers to watch videos and know people. You may not have noticed a decrease in dungeon performance, but I definitely have.

If you haven’t noticed one, I suspect you’d be in a minority because a lot of people are talking about it. No, I don’t have numbers. It’s still a lot of people.

There’s so many fallacies in there, I don’t even know where to start.
But whatever you say, buddy.

At least the game is lag-free now, thanks to this genius fix. That’s what the whispers in the wind said to me.

Truthbearer.9708:

Vayne.8563:

You don’t need numbers to watch videos and know people. You may not have noticed a decrease in dungeon performance, but I definitely have.

If you haven’t noticed one, I suspect you’d be in a minority because a lot of people are talking about it. No, I don’t have numbers. It’s still a lot of people.

There’s so many fallacies in there, I don’t even know where to start.
But whatever you say, buddy.

At least the game is lag-free now, thanks to this genius fix. That’s what the whispers in the wind said to me.

You seriously haven’t experienced a drop in the quality of dungeons? You haven’t experienced disconnects in dungeons? You haven’t experienced lag in dungeons? I really find that hard to believe.

Hello,

As this thread has derailed with off-topic posting, it is now closed.

Thank you for your understanding.