Guild Wars 2

First to say that Guild Wars 2 has sold over 5 million copies which makes it the second most successful mmo after WoW (they both came out the right time thats why they became so famous) but it has 2 mistakes not in gameplay they are diferent mistakes.

1st: the Norn race, i mean what is the point of this race they are just 100% humans but taller nothing special about them shouldnt we better play as the white polar bears with armor instead of Norns? ESO (which is a dead mmo) did same mistake 3 human races 3 elf races and even the orcs look like humans with big teeth there

2nd: The 2 of the elder dragons Jormag and the water dragon they are almost the same what is the difference between ice and water one of them should be light based or wind we have elder dragons based on darkness,fire,earth,nature and water+ice? lol

Apart from that its a perfect game and it will never die until 10 years after the last expansion propably

Whoa! 8 million!? It must have doubled its sales over the last couple months.

Yeah, those are not at all the only mistakes the game has made. As to polar bears, maybe they’ll add the Kodan eventually. There are issues a plenty elsewhere though.

About the norns: please do not just look at their appearance. Norns have a very very different culture and metality which is for many people that want their character to have like a personal story, roleplay wise, very important.
When it comes down to Dragons: ice and water are very different. First the dragons live way far from eachother, have other kind of corruption and are dangers for whole other groups. Please note we are only aware of these elder dragons but seeing the size of the world there is a huge chance that there are more, hiding near other continents.

I’m not seeing how these are mistakes…

If you said NPE and Trait Revamp I could see a reasonable argument being made for those two… but two that are ENTIRELY based on Lore of a fictional world?

WoW had the same issues as your first so called mistake. Sorry, but Goblins are green gnomes, Blood elves are practically humans mixed with night elves (and look better than both), and Worgens are just humans who can turn into wolves… just like Norn except in human form they have everything copy and pasted from the humans instead of actually having different models. Tauren are the only- more or less- original race of WoW and even they have bipedal animations 100% of the time.

ESO’s mistake has been how The Eldar Scrolls have always been, not much difference between the races visually (again, this is how that world treats its different races… more like actual races of the same species instead of different species). I’m not sure what ESO did for their racial traits, but in Oblivion and Morrowind (the last two I played) they were pretty noticeable in how you played the characters which is a much better experience than slapping a different mesh and texture on a basic skeleton (WoW) and calling it a ‘new’ race.

As for the second mistake… Jormag (if looked at it from a different line of deduction) IS the so called wind dragon. What do you get when a cold front (far shiverpeaks and Jormag’s realm) meets a warm front (the rest of Tyria)? You get a storm, and a whole bunch of wind. Ice is just the visible byproduct of this storm. I would not be surprised if Jormag’s realm is riddled with blizzards that mastery points will let you ignore the buffeting of the wind with.

Basically, this is GW2’s lore. Kodan are- pardon my racism- a lesser race like the Hylek, Skritt, and Quaggan. Sure, they may have a pretty philosophy, but that does not make them as advanced as the Norn/Humans/Charr/Asurans/Sylvari when it comes to technological and magical advances. Jormag and Bubbles are dragons, more like forces of nature. Even in our real world different cultures have different ideas of what the base elements of nature are.

Sure a lot of people think of water, fire, earth, and air as being those forces in our world but Taoism believes in five: wood, fire, earth, metal, and water. So why can’t Tyrians believe in fire, ice, shadow, crystal, plant and (assumed to be) water as their base elements?

Who says Primordius is fire anyway? He could be earth (destroyers look more like living magma than fire, not only that but he comes from the earth), and Jormag could just be ‘cold’ in general. Kralkatorikk could be glass, not crystal. The only dragon elements that are confirmed are Zhaitan (death and shadow) and Mordremoth (plant and mind).

The second most popular mmo atm is FFXIV with 4 million subs.On b2p and f2p games you cant count the players because most of the ppl have more than one accounts for various reasons(more characters,banker characters,multibox etc).

Lol. We haven’t seen either the ice (Jormag) or water (name unknown) dragons so how do you know if they are almost the same or not?

And where did you get the 8 million copies sold?

Doflamingo i need evidence.

Here is my evidence with 2 diferent results

A. " Guild Wars 2 has sold over 3 million copies since August, 2013"
B. “By August 2013, the sales have shifted 3.5 million copies, with peak concurrency at 460,000”

A. http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/15/guild-wars-2-has-sold-over-3-million-copies-since-august-2013-content-plans-outlined/
B. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars_2

In next investigation: same problem with diferent results: Guild Wars 2 numbers sold in China

There are 2 source information that do not martch: yes they are honest-valid source

1. mmosite.com, “Guild Wars 2 Has Sold 3.8 Million in China”
http://news.mmosite.com/content/2014-07-10/20140710022525720.shtml

“The launch of ArenaNet’s Guild Wars 2 in China has doubled the game’s total sales. According to new server census taken by publisher NCSoft – translated on Reddit – Guild Wars 2 has around 3.8 million players in China alone, a rate of growth that far surpasses its performance in the rest of the world”.

“Guild Wars 2 was launched in territories all over the world in August 2012, but it only hit 3.5 million sales a year later. By contrast, it has reached 3.8 million sales in China after just two months. The success of Guild Wars 2 is a vindication on two fronts. First, it is a compelling example of a game finding a significant audience with a pay-to-play model in a country where the market is dominated by free-to-play. Second, it is further evidence that the Chinese market is a lucrative untapped resource for developers in North America, Europe and elsewhere”.

2. yahoo.com, “Guild Wars 2 has sold more than 500,000 copies in China, but it could be in trouble”
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/guild-wars-2-sold-more-500-000-copies-181043168.html

“The Chinese launch of Guild Wars 2 is something we’ve been following pretty closely because of the game’s monetization scheme: a pay-up-front model that isn’t traditionally popular with Chinese MMORPG players. But the game, which officially launched in open beta on Thursday, seems to be doing pretty well. Official sources say the game sold 500,000 preorders in April alone”.

“A Netease Games editor did some counting on Taobao and its offshoot Tmall and found the game has also sold nearly 250,000 copies through those platforms since preorders began. It’s not entirely clear whether or not the official 500,000 number includes the Taobao and Tmall sales that occurred before May 1”.

“But whatever the exact sales number to date is, things certainly look bright for GW2‘s China distributor Kongzhong. Sure, Guild Wars 2 may not have yet equalled the 3.5 million units it has shipped outside China’s borders, but it took the game a year after its release to get to that number. Given that it just launched in China yesterday, and that the publisher adopted what many would consider a risky and unpopular business model for a Chinese MMO, I’d say things are off to a pretty good start”.

“There is one dark cloud on the horizon, though. A scandal involving stolen accounts has already scared some Chinese players away from the game, and likely will hurt what were originally expected to be impressive first week sales numbers. That setback should be a temporary one, but Kongzhong will have to work hard to convince players that it has improved account security measures or the issue could stunt the game’s growth potential in China permanently”.

In conclusion from investigation from each different investigation: Guild Wars 2 have not sold over 8 million copies at all.

My estimate new additional subscription to Guild Wars 2 present subscription after expansion- 300,000-700,000 subsription for united states include europe.. china-200,000 subscription

Again, I ask Doflamingo for his investigation report and i am interested to see it.

I think its safe to say that no game, past and present, has “only two mistakes”. Especially if we’re to go by individual perceptions of what is right or wrong within any given game.

ckotoc.5421:

The second most popular mmo atm is FFXIV with 4 million subs.On b2p and f2p games you cant count the players because most of the ppl have more than one accounts for various reasons(more characters,banker characters,multibox etc).

You are correct.

The first is WoW include last expansion: estimate- 10 million subscribers.
FFXIV will be release a expansion this year spring" , “Final Fantasy XIV’s First Expansion Will Be as Big as the Base Game” Estimate subscriptions after expansion: 8 million+.

The Norn are giants, don’t cite the race as bad because everyone shrinks them down to slightly taller humans. They’re supposed to be 8 to 9+ feet tall and are hulking warriors. Hell it’s even stated lorewise that a single Norn can go toe to toe with a Charr warband. They are not just “Big humans”

Secondly the dragons are not elementals they have domains that border on things such as elements but Zhaitan and Kralkatoric both fall out of the “Elemental” based theory on the Elder Dragons.

Zhiatan is the Elder dragon of the dead and undeath he’s not “Darkness”

we have no “Fire Dragon” The closest is Primordus and he is a mingling of fire and earth more like a Lava based dragon then anything else.

Kralkatoric is Crystals

Mordremoth is focused on jungles not nature as a whole he borderlines it with corruption but it’s more simply where he lives.

As for Jormag he definitively falls in with Ice but Ice is only a state of a single element when was the last time you heard someone state one of the four elements as Ice.

Of course this is all conjecture but the dragons themselves have ties, but not direct to some elements… Zhaitan and Kralk are still my case and points for these.

Honestly, if anything the dragons focus more on regions of Tyria. The Oceans, the Shiverpeaks, the Maguma Jungles, the barren area of Ascolon the long dead island of Orr and that unamed place the Asura come from way underground.

Doflamingo.6957:

First to say that Guild Wars 2 has sold over 8 million copies which makes it the second most successful mmo after WoW (they both came out the right time thats why they became so famous) but it has 2 mistakes not in gameplay they are diferent mistakes.

1st: the Norn race, i mean what is the point of this race they are just 100% humans but taller nothing special about them shouldnt we better play as the white polar bears with armor instead of Norns? ESO (which is a dead mmo) did same mistake 3 human races 3 elf races and even the orcs look like humans with big teeth there

2nd: The 2 of the elder dragons Jormag and the water dragon they are almost the same what is the difference between ice and water one of them should be light based or wind we have elder dragons based on darkness,fire,earth,nature and water+ice? lol

Apart from that its a perfect game and it will never die until 10 years after the last expansion propably

Firstly, the Norn are not just tall humans and secondly… Who’s this water dragon you’re talking about? If you’re talking about Zhaitan then no… He not not a water dragon.

Here is everything you need to know about the elder dragons. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elder_Dragon

Yeah its kinda annoying when games just keep reskinning humans and elves~ hell like Neverwinter added new races and they were just different versions of elves that looked the same but different skin colors. It’s basically just making up fantasy versions of white, african, asian and etc~ very vague, uncreative versions of races.

Norn are abnormally large though and can shapeshift so they’re more unique than that but it doesn’t keep them from being my least liked race, as I deleted mine after getting story chivoz n it’s only race I don’t have. I can’t make a male that isn’t a disproportionate fatty, yet somehow females have normal mega supermodel forms o.O It’s a shame cuz I like werewolvez. ;s

The only two mistakes this game has made is the lootsystem and the refinancing through the gemshop. Both mistakes were made to appeal to the lazy gamers, the on-off gamers or the weekend gamers. Those two mistakes have hindered the game to become challenging and fun on a long term basis. And as long as there are players out there who have no clue how the classes work they’re playing or players who only want to play a small section of this game and still get everything in this game, this game will proceed to underperform.

yea, norn and humans are more or less the same, should have made it kodan or tengu.

Ignoring new dungeons wasn’t a mistake? New content every two weeks, but making said content also go bye-bye every two weeks wasn’t a mistake? The unrequested NPE wasn’t a mistake? Making the majority of Tyria irrelevant once players hit 80 wasn’t a mistake?There have been mistakes made, as will happen in any game. Far more than one hand would be needed to list them, same as listing all the things done correctly to be fair.

Zackie.8923:

yea, norn and humans are more or less the same, should have made it kodan or tengu.

Human and Norn have very distinct ways of viewing life, they have a different culture, they reside differently and they have different goals in life. All those things however get burried under the storytelling, which is mediocre at best. They don’t have to be physically different to be able to differentiate them as race.

ckotoc.5421:

The second most popular mmo atm is FFXIV with 4 million subs.

That’s 4 million accounts, not subs. Not everyone who bought the game still subs, just as not everyone who bought this game still plays regularly. Companies also count trial accounts in such totals.

At last report (quite some time ago), GW2 had sold 3.5 million copies. Since then, they’ve had multiple sales in the west and launched the game in China. How many accounts is that, total? I’m not sure, but it’s likely more than 4 mill.

Anyone who says that Norn are just tall humans is ignorant about the game they play.

Norn were not made “wild” enough like the concept art showed them to be. Even their t3 armor is a joke compared to the awesomeness of the concept art, almost cartoonist.

pff, humans are skinny and boring, Norns are powerful and drunk, how you dare compare them. And if male and female skins ware not different you wont be able to tell if a humam is a man or a gril.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Lol. We haven’t seen either the ice (Jormag) or water (name unknown) dragons so how do you know if they are almost the same or not?

Having never seen them, and, more to the point, having never seen them in the same room together, how do we know they are not the same dragon? That is, one dragon — with two forms! Maybe Jormag is the form this dragon takes when he flies north for the summer, and Bubbles the Good, Friendliest Dragon of All, is the form this dragon takes when she flies south for the winter.

Come to think of it, have we ever seen two or more Elder Dragons in the same place at the same time?

Cazamar.7148:

Anyone who says that Norn are just tall humans is ignorant about the game they play.

Humans are just short norn.

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Lol. We haven’t seen either the ice (Jormag) or water (name unknown) dragons so how do you know if they are almost the same or not?

Having never seen them, and, more to the point, having never seen them in the same room together, how do we know they are not the same dragon? That is, one dragon — with two forms! Maybe Jormag is the form this dragon takes when he flies north for the summer, and Bubbles the Good, Friendliest Dragon of All, is the form this dragon takes when she flies south for the winter.

Come to think of it, have we ever seen two or more Elder Dragons in the same place at the same time?

It’s true we haven’t. Zhaitan faked his own death and is now chilling on the moon with Elvis!

Genesis.4671:

Doflamingo.6957:

First to say that Guild Wars 2 has sold over 8 million copies which makes it the second most successful mmo after WoW (they both came out the right time thats why they became so famous) but it has 2 mistakes not in gameplay they are diferent mistakes.

1st: the Norn race, i mean what is the point of this race they are just 100% humans but taller nothing special about them shouldnt we better play as the white polar bears with armor instead of Norns? ESO (which is a dead mmo) did same mistake 3 human races 3 elf races and even the orcs look like humans with big teeth there

2nd: The 2 of the elder dragons Jormag and the water dragon they are almost the same what is the difference between ice and water one of them should be light based or wind we have elder dragons based on darkness,fire,earth,nature and water+ice? lol

Apart from that its a perfect game and it will never die until 10 years after the last expansion propably

Firstly, the Norn are not just tall humans and secondly… Who’s this water dragon you’re talking about? If you’re talking about Zhaitan then no… He not not a water dragon.

Here is everything you need to know about the elder dragons. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elder_Dragon

In the link that yout gave its the last dragon in the list

The only thing different about Norn when compared to humans other than their size is the culture they have. To begin with, norn have an innate desire to be heroes or legends in their own right from being the best hunter to even the greatest blacksmith or artist whereas those traits are not as common with humans as to them, what’s worse than being dead is being forgotten in the annals of history. Secondly, unlike humans, norn can shapeshift into their respective patron Spirit of the Wild (Bear, Raven, Snow Leopard or Wolf). Thirdly, norn have a different way of thinking compared to humans in many ways such as not having a fixed government system as they value freedom greatly. They only follow whoever is considered the wisest or the strongest of their kind. In fact, norn only speak for themselves and not for others, hence they have no army at all. At best they can gather other individuals sharing the same interest and cooperate amongst each other.

Right, back off to reddit then…

As someone who is female, enjoys playing women who are giant and look like they have the strength to actually smash a hammer in the face of a monster? I love my Norn.

They’re not dainty, they don’t run through daisies (like in some other MMOs), and they grunt when they get hit.

Doflamingo.6957:

First to say that Guild Wars 2 has sold over 5 million copies which makes it the second most successful mmo after WoW (they both came out the right time thats why they became so famous) but it has 2 mistakes not in gameplay they are diferent mistakes.

1st: the Norn race, i mean what is the point of this race they are just 100% humans but taller nothing special about them shouldnt we better play as the white polar bears with armor instead of Norns? ESO (which is a dead mmo) did same mistake 3 human races 3 elf races and even the orcs look like humans with big teeth there

2nd: The 2 of the elder dragons Jormag and the water dragon they are almost the same what is the difference between ice and water one of them should be light based or wind we have elder dragons based on darkness,fire,earth,nature and water+ice? lol

Apart from that its a perfect game and it will never die until 10 years after the last expansion propably

Unless Anet did not intend to add the Norm or make the elder dragons they way they had, I do not see these as being mistakes. The Norn and the elder dragons were added as intended as far as I can tell. If you do not agree with the Norn or the elder dragons, that does not make it a mistake, it makes it a difference of opinion.

Regarding the Norn, one could argue that making them the Kodan could be seen as a mistake, as that would require a lot more work in terms of making armour and outfits. As Norn, it is a simple matter of scaling and therefore much easier to add armour for them. I am not suggesting that is the reason for adding Norn over Kodan, but it is a valid reason. However, the Norn lore and culture is what makes them worth adding over the Kodan.

Regarding the elder dragons, there are no rules to say their nature and appearance has to be tied to completely different elements from the other dragons. They are not each a different part of a complete elemental system. They simply happen to take on particular influences, such as ice or water. Also, while ice is water frozen, both materials behave very differently and have very different properties. Having an elder dragon of ice and of water does not make them the same.

Regarding the numbers of sold copies we have over 3.5 M confirmed by Arenanet from the 1st anniversary and over 1 M confirmed by KongZhong for the release quarter. More recent numbers are not available. I would guess a current number between 5 and 6 mln globally sold copies

ckotoc.5421:

The second most popular mmo atm is FFXIV with 4 million subs.On b2p and f2p games you cant count the players because most of the ppl have more than one accounts for various reasons(more characters,banker characters,multibox etc).

FFXIV definitely doesnt have 4 million subs. Square Enix like to word things in such a way that they make people believe they have 4m subs when in truth they’d be quoting registered accounts for example. They were exposed by Polygon a while ago:http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers

when Square Enix quote 1.5m registered users for FFXIV their financials showed they had less then 1m subs between all their MMOs

Based on the financial report submitted for Dec 2014 there is very far less then 4m subs for FFXIV

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/15q3earnings.pdf

Thats the last 9 months ending Dec 2014

Revenue for all the Digital entertainment section (includes all games IE MMOs, Browser games and Non Online Games) convered to USD was $632 million… if we divide that by 9 we get an average of $70m per month which is approximately the amount of money 4m subs at $15 per month would generate.

However that $631 million also includes all game sales.
They released Kingdom hearts in oct 2014, as per the report itself they mentioned a browser game and a mobile game that continued to have strong sales, they had 3 mobile game releases that had strong performances. They also mentioned strong sales on games released the previous year. Then you have box sales for FFXIV and Dragon Quest X. And what remains is money split between FFXIV and Dragon Quest X as well as what subs they still have for FFXI.

So while like everyone else I have no clue how many subs they have, whats for sure is its definitely no were near 4m because for that to be true based on their income at the end of 2014 every other property they have would need to be generating not a single dollar for them and based on the report itself thats not the case.

If you read at all the quests and discuss with the NPCs and do the events in the Norn lands, you will see they are NOTHING like the Humans.

Galen Grey.4709:

ckotoc.5421:

The second most popular mmo atm is FFXIV with 4 million subs.On b2p and f2p games you cant count the players because most of the ppl have more than one accounts for various reasons(more characters,banker characters,multibox etc).

FFXIV definitely doesnt have 4 million subs. Square Enix like to word things in such a way that they make people believe they have 4m subs when in truth they’d be quoting registered accounts for example. They were exposed by Polygon a while ago:http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers

when Square Enix quote 1.5m registered users for FFXIV their financials showed they had less then 1m subs between all their MMOs

Based on the financial report submitted for Dec 2014 there is very far less then 4m subs for FFXIV

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/15q3earnings.pdf

Thats the last 9 months ending Dec 2014

Revenue for all the Digital entertainment section (includes all games IE MMOs, Browser games and Non Online Games) convered to USD was $632 million… if we divide that by 9 we get an average of $70m per month which is approximately the amount of money 4m subs at $15 per month would generate.

However that $631 million also includes all game sales.
They released Kingdom hearts in oct 2014, as per the report itself they mentioned a browser game and a mobile game that continued to have strong sales, they had 3 mobile game releases that had strong performances. They also mentioned strong sales on games released the previous year. Then you have box sales for FFXIV and Dragon Quest X. And what remains is money split between FFXIV and Dragon Quest X as well as what subs they still have for FFXI.

So while like everyone else I have no clue how many subs they have, whats for sure is its definitely no were near 4m because for that to be true based on their income at the end of 2014 every other property they have would need to be generating not a single dollar for them and based on the report itself thats not the case.

Here is Ckotoc evidence of FFXIV with 4 million subscribers+ from Square Enix: FFXIV main website:- “Celebrating 4 Million Accounts 02/26/2015 3:00 AM”

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/24d3c419fae62ce2771b4b0b7d01c6348ab5d5e5

I play FFIV so that is why i already agree with Ckotoc

KorbenDallas.6729:

If you read at all the quests and discuss with the NPCs and do the events in the Norn lands, you will see they are NOTHING like the Humans.

Hath not a norn eyes? Hath not a norn hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a human is? If you prick them, do they not bleed? If you tickle them, do they not laugh? If you poison them, do they not die? And if you wrong them, shall they not revenge? If they are like humans in the rest, they will resemble humans in that.

DarkSyze.8627:

Galen Grey.4709:

ckotoc.5421:

The second most popular mmo atm is FFXIV with 4 million subs.On b2p and f2p games you cant count the players because most of the ppl have more than one accounts for various reasons(more characters,banker characters,multibox etc).

FFXIV definitely doesnt have 4 million subs. Square Enix like to word things in such a way that they make people believe they have 4m subs when in truth they’d be quoting registered accounts for example. They were exposed by Polygon a while ago:http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers

when Square Enix quote 1.5m registered users for FFXIV their financials showed they had less then 1m subs between all their MMOs

Based on the financial report submitted for Dec 2014 there is very far less then 4m subs for FFXIV

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/15q3earnings.pdf

Thats the last 9 months ending Dec 2014

Revenue for all the Digital entertainment section (includes all games IE MMOs, Browser games and Non Online Games) convered to USD was $632 million… if we divide that by 9 we get an average of $70m per month which is approximately the amount of money 4m subs at $15 per month would generate.

However that $631 million also includes all game sales.
They released Kingdom hearts in oct 2014, as per the report itself they mentioned a browser game and a mobile game that continued to have strong sales, they had 3 mobile game releases that had strong performances. They also mentioned strong sales on games released the previous year. Then you have box sales for FFXIV and Dragon Quest X. And what remains is money split between FFXIV and Dragon Quest X as well as what subs they still have for FFXI.

So while like everyone else I have no clue how many subs they have, whats for sure is its definitely no were near 4m because for that to be true based on their income at the end of 2014 every other property they have would need to be generating not a single dollar for them and based on the report itself thats not the case.

Here is Ckotoc evidence of FFXIV with 4 million subscribers+ from Square Enix: FFXIV main website:- “Celebrating 4 Million Accounts 02/26/2015 3:00 AM”

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/24d3c419fae62ce2771b4b0b7d01c6348ab5d5e5

I play FFIV so that is why i already agree with Ckotoc

Celebrating 4 Million Accounts

In that page they mention Accounts not Subscriptions… I have 2 accounts myself… 1 I used during the beta and 1 after launch to try to evaluation and see If stuff that didnt convince me in the beta got addressed because for some reason if you took part in the beta you arent eligible for a trail even though in my opinion one should never judge an MMO based on beta when stuff is changing constantly. Even though I have 2 accounts though I never subscribed cause the game just didn’t resonate with me.

money doesnt lie.. You can open the report I linked and double check all I have said. The income they had during 2014 just doesnt add up to 4m subs. Well unless everything else didnt make any money at all which is obviously not the case.

Hey .. leave my norns alone. Most of my characters are norn, i prefer Hoelbrak over LA
and play mostly in Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Timberline Falls and Frostgorge.

Also i would have really liked it more to go against Jormag than against all those
kitten plant mobs.

Khalisto.5780:

pff, humans are skinny and boring, Norns are powerful and drunk, how you dare compare them.

^ and this^^

Tachenon.5270:

KorbenDallas.6729:

If you read at all the quests and discuss with the NPCs and do the events in the Norn lands, you will see they are NOTHING like the Humans.

Hath not a norn eyes? Hath not a norn hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a human is? If you prick them, do they not bleed? If you tickle them, do they not laugh? If you poison them, do they not die? And if you wrong them, shall they not revenge? If they are like humans in the rest, they will resemble humans in that.

if you prick them they dont bleed, they smash you in the face probably. which is the crux of the matter really. They may look the same but look is just a subset of what makes something identical. there is also, story, custom, traditions etc…

everything you said can also apply to the Charr, Sylvari and Asura after all!

also I know you were joking but I thought of hijacking your joke to say something on subject.. hope you dont mind

The only two mistakes?

You mention WoW but….
Humans/Norn while that game has Human/Gnome/Dwarf and they have a Norn like race too it’s just not playable and the elves are just humans with long ears. Sure that’s only the alliance but I’m alright with the Norn.

As for the two dragons the water one should be deep sea or at least I hope it’s the deep sea while the other is the high mountains and will probably have more of a Norse feel to it. They’ll have to fix underwater combat though or at least I hope they fix underwater combat.

Lastly there are more than two mistakes and the largest one I can see was that temporary content deal they tried to pull. Living story one still isn’t up yet and after nearly 3 years they barely have anything to show for it mainly due to the fact the vast majority of the content they did have was completely temporary. New players can’t see what Super Adventure Box was like or the Labrynth Cliffs. They don’t even have any idea what LA looked like prior and the current state of LA is a perfect example of the current state of this game. Broken scattered and in dire need of repair every time you log into this game for months the dreary and broken LA is all you saw. Not only there but the only thing that wasn’t temporary was the garbage the wreckage of toxic tower, marionette, and those beacons are all eyesores none as big as Lions Arch itself. How do they expect to retain new players when all they see is debris from past content they’ll never get to experience or understand.

ckotoc.5421:

The second most popular mmo atm is FFXIV with 4 million subs.On b2p and f2p games you cant count the players because most of the ppl have more than one accounts for various reasons(more characters,banker characters,multibox etc).

FF14 doesn’t have 4 million subs, it has 4 million accounts aka it include free trial.

ff14+ff11+dragon quest have a combined total of 1 million subs.

So you are wrong.

sources
http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers
http://arcadesushi.com/square-enixs-mmos-total-under-1-million-subscribers-2015-plans/
http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers

Doflamingo.6957:

2nd: The 2 of the elder dragons Jormag and the water dragon they are almost the same what is the difference between ice and water one of them should be light based or wind we have elder dragons based on darkness,fire,earth,nature and water+ice? lol

Not that it really matters, but I’m a long time Final Fantasy player, and the elements you use (in the newer of the FFs) are Fire, Thunder, Blizzard, and Water.

Also darkness isn’t an element, nor is nature or light. Earth, fire, wind, and water are widely considered your go-to elements. Ice is in the water family, sure, but are clearly opposite within the family (liquid vs solid). Kind of like earth and sand might be similar but different, or fire and lava. Two sides of a same coin.

I have no problem with a water type and ice type, heck Pokemon has been doing it for years.

I always felt the dragons were products of their environment rather than being specific “elements”. You may want to think of it that way, too.

Are you implying ESO failed because of too many anthropomorphic races? I pretty much doubt this in that case.

As for the dragons. Do you have some magical glass orb or something? There is no ice great dragon in the actual game yet, and the sea dragon is only a vague rumor even in game. And why do you even suspect they somehow have to be aligned to clearly delimited alchemical elements when clearly this does not really fit well for the dragons already known? Even though that wiki link you posted yourself clearly shows the arbitrariness of their influence spheres. Questions, questions….

While lore wise the Norn are truly interesting and vivid, with a really unique philosophy a colorful culture, and tons of epic episodes in their history… design wise they ARE utterly boring. They are “giants”, but that’s all.

Dont get me wrong: every single Norn out there is more interesting that the common human, aesthetically talking. Norn guys have personality, and Norn women are way more beautiful and charismatic than their bland and lame human counterpart.

But they are still mostly scaled up human.

“The only 2 mistakes”?

“Apart from that its a perfect game”.

Cute.

Can’t remember when I last felt so utterly positive about anything?

Think I was about 4 and it was probably pink and frilly.

silvermember.8941:

ckotoc.5421:

The second most popular mmo atm is FFXIV with 4 million subs.On b2p and f2p games you cant count the players because most of the ppl have more than one accounts for various reasons(more characters,banker characters,multibox etc).

FF14 doesn’t have 4 million subs, it has 4 million accounts

ff14+ff11+dragon quest have a combined total of 1 million subs.

So you are wrong.

sources
http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers
http://arcadesushi.com/square-enixs-mmos-total-under-1-million-subscribers-2015-plans/
http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers

what does account mean? How does FFIV account work?

DarkSyze.8627:

silvermember.8941:

ckotoc.5421:

The second most popular mmo atm is FFXIV with 4 million subs.On b2p and f2p games you cant count the players because most of the ppl have more than one accounts for various reasons(more characters,banker characters,multibox etc).

FF14 doesn’t have 4 million subs, it has 4 million accounts

ff14+ff11+dragon quest have a combined total of 1 million subs.

So you are wrong.

sources
http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers
http://arcadesushi.com/square-enixs-mmos-total-under-1-million-subscribers-2015-plans/
http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers

what does account mean? How does FFIV account work?

Accounts work essentially the same in all MMO’s, including in GW2. You set up the account using a User ID and password. The account is then maintained in a data base. You use the User ID and password to log in to the game. In sub games, you’re blocked from accessing the game unless you’re paid up. However, the account still exists in the database, in case you come back, or the game becomes free to play.

If a company advertises “number of accounts,” they’re free to count lapsed subs, beta accounts and trial accounts, as well as paid subscribers. It’s all part of AdSpeak.

IndigoSundown.5419:

DarkSyze.8627:

silvermember.8941:

ckotoc.5421:

The second most popular mmo atm is FFXIV with 4 million subs.On b2p and f2p games you cant count the players because most of the ppl have more than one accounts for various reasons(more characters,banker characters,multibox etc).

FF14 doesn’t have 4 million subs, it has 4 million accounts

ff14+ff11+dragon quest have a combined total of 1 million subs.

So you are wrong.

sources
http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers
http://arcadesushi.com/square-enixs-mmos-total-under-1-million-subscribers-2015-plans/
http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers

what does account mean? How does FFIV account work?

Accounts work essentially the same in all MMO’s, including in GW2. You set up the account using a User ID and password. The account is then maintained in a data base. You use the User ID and password to log in to the game. In sub games, you’re blocked from accessing the game unless you’re paid up. However, the account still exists in the database, in case you come back, or the game becomes free to play.

If a company advertises “number of accounts,” they’re free to count lapsed subs, beta accounts and trial accounts, as well as paid subscribers. It’s all part of AdSpeak.

Thank You! IndigoSundown