Guild Wars 2

In a word: motivation.

People complaining about a lack of endgame content are met by a barage of other players pointing out the huge amount of things you can do; from explorable dungeons to map completion to pvp to crafting, there is plenty of content. However, I believe the issue these frustrated players are failing to point out well is that they are no longer driven to play through the content due to the lack of an invisible carrot on a stick.

Dungeons, for example, can be difficult – which is great – but a lot of players may be feeling frustrated because their efforts feel unrewarded. Often the loot feels underwhelming compared to the time and effort put into the challenge. Additionally, there aren’t any dungeons that players have to progress into nor is there a good way to show off their accomplishments.

Now, GW2 has an amazing leveling experience. The game works. So, my question to all of you is what suggestions can we make towards keeping players motivated after they hit the level cap and get gear with good stats.

Would locked off dungeons encourage players to complete the other dungeons in order to access the new ones?

Without gear with higher stats would new content be enough of a motivation?

What about other aspects of endgame. Are crafters, explorers, pvpers motivated by current rewards? How could it be improved?

Looking forward to hearing your responses..

Cheers,
Arcnite

2 things:

• dungeon finder
• limit the number of players in WvW to the number the lowest server has in WvW

If they would do that people would have something to do untill they release new content but right now WvW is frustating and creating a dungeon group takes an imense amount of time like back in 2004.

Tito.3270:

2 things:

• dungeon finder
  …

Dungeon finder would help form groups but what about motivating players to do them? Do you feel the current loot/coin drops are motivation enough?

We knew this wasn’t going to be a carrot-chasing game months ago. Here’s a good blog someone wrote about that back in February. Long story short, the lack of the traditional gear treadmill endgame is among the many reasons those of us who actually kept up with what ANet has been saying about the game for years bought it for.

Every dungeon has three sets of armor, one for each armor class, and a full set of weapons from each weapon type, to show off your accomplishments in that dungeon. Motivation doesn’t have to be a gear treadmill. Seriously, a gear treadmill is the only motivation missing from the game, and if getting better gear endlessly is the only thing that keeps you going, you’re playing the wrong game, a game you apparently knew nothing about before you bought it.

I’ll tell you what would anger those of us that bought the game for what it is, though; if ArenaNet completely did a 180 on everything they said for the past three years and started requiring gearing for dungeons so you could gear for dungeons so you could gear for even more dungeons a la every other MMO. That locks players out of content. It’s just not fun for anyone that isn’t a masochist or desperate for overcompensation.

There will be new content, both free and paid. Colin Johanson is on record stating that ANet intends to give us more content for free than any other MMO releases. This will be touched on in a blog post next month. New dynamic events, dungeons, etc etc. There will be plenty to do, and plenty to get to shown off you’ve done it. But everyone saying that there’s “no content” right now is full of it, because it launched less than a month ago and has literally hundreds of hours worth of content.

A good motivating factor would be to severely decreasing the amount of runs needed to afford a full set of explorable gear. Honestly anything more than 20 is pushing it, but I’d be okay with 30/35 if all dungeons simply shared the same tokens.

Either way, it needs to go down by AT LEAST half.

Baromega.6509:

A good motivating factor would be to severely decreasing the amount of runs needed to afford a full set of explorable gear. Honestly anything more than 20 is pushing it, but I’d be okay with 30/35 if all dungeons simply shared the same tokens.

Either way, it needs to go down by AT LEAST half.

I can at least agree with this.100+ runs of the same dungeon to get a set of armor is kinda ridiculous.

I think part of the issue is that people have been “sold” on the idea that the game starts at the level cap.

Its nice to see another game where the “endgame” starts at level 1.

When you look at GW2 as a whole there is an enormous amount of content. Its shame that people don’t see that.

Echo.7634:

I think part of the issue is that people have been “sold” on the idea that the game starts at the level cap.

Its nice to see another game where the “endgame” starts at level 1.

When you look at GW2 as a whole there is an enormous amount of content. Its shame that people don’t see that.

I really gotta stop typing so much. You people keep nailing this on the head with like 10% of the text of my posts. XD

DusK.3849:

I’ll tell you what would anger those of us that bought the game for what it is, though; if ArenaNet completely did a 180 on everything they said for the past three years and started requiring gearing for dungeons so you could gear for dungeons so you could gear for even more dungeons a la every other MMO. That locks players out of content. It’s just not fun for anyone that isn’t a masochist or desperate for overcompensation.
.

There’s a reason I asked for suggestions rather than saying we need gear with higher stats. For example, they could lock out dungeons without requiring gear with higher stats. Like leveling through zones, the content is there for everyone they would just need to complete dungeon a before getting to b which would need to be completed before dungeon c. Tokens or drops could provide keys to the next dungeon, etc.

Players could then show off progressively impressive looking gear, marking their progress through the chain of dungeons. Additionally, the dungeons could increase in difficulty as you progress allowing players to progressively learn the skills and teamwork needed to complete explorable mode dungeons.

Echo.7634:

I think part of the issue is that people have been “sold” on the idea that the game starts at the level cap.

Its nice to see another game where the “endgame” starts at level 1.

When you look at GW2 as a whole there is an enormous amount of content. Its shame that people don’t see that.

The problem is that unlike the earlier levels there comes a point when you stop gaining stats, levels, better equipment, access to new areas, etc. The content isn’t any less fun, it’s the feeling of progression that gets lost. So, how do you bring that back?

Arcnite.8752:

Tito.3270:

2 things:

• dungeon finder
  …

Dungeon finder would help form groups but what about motivating players to do them? Do you feel the current loot/coin drops are motivation enough?

No, they would also need to redesign the armor sets and weapons, right now none of the dungeon sets and weapons beats the style of my leveling gear so there is no motivation to get them. I already have a full epic set which i transformed back to the style of leveling equip to make it look decent, so stats aren’t a motivating factor.

Arcnite.8752:

The problem is that unlike the earlier levels there comes a point when you stop gaining stats, levels, better equipment, access to new areas, etc. The content isn’t any less fun, it’s the feeling of progression that gets lost. So, how do you bring that back?

By exploring the places you didn’t go to when leveling, playing the dungeons you didn’t play, and getting sweet stuff you didn’t have before, and then when ANet delivers new content, you play that.

The game just ins’t very solo friendly at 80 for a lot of the stuff.

For exotic gear, other than crafting stuff requires dozens of dungeon runs.

I agree with lack of motivation, the last 4 or 5 days I have only logged on to do a few jumping puzzles, then I log off.

I am level 63 and just don’t want to level to 80 only to have to grind out karma and gold for armor.

I was told ANet was doing away with grind.

The thought of grind sucks away any motivation I have to play.

Maybe it’s my fault for actually thinking there wouldn’t be any grind.

DusK.3849:

Baromega.6509:

A good motivating factor would be to severely decreasing the amount of runs needed to afford a full set of explorable gear. Honestly anything more than 20 is pushing it, but I’d be okay with 30/35 if all dungeons simply shared the same tokens.

Either way, it needs to go down by AT LEAST half.

I can at least agree with this.100+ runs of the same dungeon to get a set of armor is kinda ridiculous.

You don’t need 100+ runs of the same dungeon for a set of exotic armor.

No, its not 100+ and I don’t have the exact number but I know it’s freaking ludicrous. Around 60 if memory serves. Couple that with the fact that explorable modes are just way too tedious and there is simply no motivation.

Key word is tedious by the way. They’re not difficult, they’re just boring as heck.

DusK.3849:

Baromega.6509:

A good motivating factor would be to severely decreasing the amount of runs needed to afford a full set of explorable gear. Honestly anything more than 20 is pushing it, but I’d be okay with 30/35 if all dungeons simply shared the same tokens.

Either way, it needs to go down by AT LEAST half.

I can at least agree with this.100+ runs of the same dungeon to get a set of armor is kinda ridiculous.

The proverbial carrot on a stick you were talking about…

I believe the issue these frustrated players are failing to point out well is that they are no longer driven to play through the content due to the lack of an invisible carrot on a stick.

Funny, I was no longer driven to play through the content of other MMO’s because of the invisible carrot on a stick. So in that regard, I have no suggestions that will help these lost souls who can’t enjoy dungeon progression without these kinds of rewards.

Unfortunately, not everyone is like me, but for those who are, my suggestion would be to tie dungeon progression into ever increasing epic lore revelations. That would do it for me, and as far as some way to show off your accomplishments to fellow players, I would venture to say unique gear that isn’t statistically devastating but definitely indicates ones accomplishments would be as far as I would want to go with that.

Also, glancing over this topic, I just wanted to say that there really haven’t been any interesting dungeons in any MMO since I was running them in BC. That’s probably rose tinted glasses because everything was new, much like Kara as far as raiding. Everything after has failed to meet my expectations.

I just ran my first dungeon on Friday, story mode Twilight Arbor. Considering everything I’ve heard, I didn’t think it was exactly a walk in the park. (What was up with that second boss?) So I expect explorable modes to be a pita. But I didn’t see alot of what people were comnplaining about with mob pinging and our group handled it very well. But I did think it was somewhat boring and definitely tedious.

I wish we had more dungeons like the Black Talon flashpoint in SWTOR. That was why I felt that game was going places, too bad the rest of them didn’t deliver like that one did, bringing the excitement and chaos, weaving in a story, and moving through the instance fluidly while still delivering a few challenges at the boss fights.

Tito.3270:

2 things:

• dungeon finder
• limit the number of players in WvW to the number the lowest server has in WvW

If they would do that people would have something to do untill they release new content but right now WvW is frustating and creating a dungeon group takes an imense amount of time like back in 2004.

I thought they had a level cap for WvW?

Also, I wonder about lowering the amount of “tokens” it costs for exotic armor. I did quick math (so may be wrong) but I think you’d have to do AC explorable mode over 30 times to get a full set of that gear, of which stats aren’t very good so it would be for looks alone. Then again you don’t want to see everyone running around in it..

While in dungeons, maybe raise our magic find x100 or something? Again, just brainstorming here. Or maybe certain dungeon specific items have a small chance of dropping only in that specific dungeon.

Group finder would be great, so i’m not spending 4s to go to a dungeon just to find out no one is interested in doing it at the moment.

I think ANet could add in some kind of incentive for completing ALL the available paths in succession in an Explorable Mode dungeon. The cheap-n-easy people can still do their speed runs for their tokens but for the bold that want to do the two other harder paths, at least they have something to show for it.

Aside from the Dungeon Master title, which can be quite difficult to show off due to the way how titles are shown, perhaps an Exotic skin for their weapon that is noticeably different than the Exotic weapons one could purchase for tokens. Or even stand-alone gloves that glow or have unique effects. I know in GW1, there were unique gloves you could obtain that showed you did something to earn them. Just something that makes others wonder “Holy crap! That looks awesome! How do I get that?”

ANet could also introduce attunements that require you to do complete up to a certain point in your Personal Story before entering a certain explorable path of the dungeon. This could be equivalent to being “Ascended” in GW1.

There will obviously be grinding but to lessen it, and to encourage those to attempt the other paths of Explorable Modes, I think after completing one path, the next path could offer double rewards, and the third path could offer quadruple rewards (this is assuming you do each path back-to-back). In a way, this kind of reward was similar to how the Domain of Anguish was done back in GW1, where you would get a multiplied amount if you completed each path in succession instead taking breaks.

Arcnite.8752:

Dungeon finder would help form groups but what about motivating players to do them? Do you feel the current loot/coin drops are motivation enough?

^

Ironically one of the biggest complaints about GW1 was how easy gear was to get and how the game lacked any form of “gear grind”

GW2 has a small “gear grind” to it and now people are complaining about that.

Kittened if you do, kittened if you don’t.

I realy hoped that this game would offer enough content to keep me interested for years like wow did some years ago, fanboys gonna hate but i’m sadly begining to realize that Pandaland will be the mmo to hang out in for another couple of years :/ GW2 was deffinetly worth the money, leveling was fun but i don’t wanna repeat that or do pseudo endgame content like “exploration” or “farm kitteny looking armorsets”, WvW had great potential but anet was unfortunatly delusional when creating it, which resulted in hour-long queues at prime-time, nightcapping and not enough rewards for dooing WvW, all 3 things resulting in frustation playing the game.

Many people have accepted the gear grind now, its the anti-bot code that screws over genuine players.

Yes, I’m not motivated to do any of the “content” before me, it just seems pointless.

Let’s go through the thread counting all of the people who thought GW2 was going to be WoW 2 and didn’t read a single thing ANet posted about the game over the years, shall we?

Seriously, people. You knew what you were buying. If you didn’t, that’s not the game’s fault; it’s yours. Be an informed consumer.

“There will be new content, both free and paid. Colin Johanson is on record stating that ANet intends to give us more content for free than any other MMO releases. "

It will be interesting to see if they can make true on this. I came from another game which gives a lot of content and very often. The problem is a lot of that content is not quality. So I hope that this “more content for free than any other MMO releases” is exactly that – quality. Although I am sure it will be after seeing all the things I have seen both in the game and over the past few months keeping up todate with the state of the game etc.

Now as to this “Endgame” that everyone keeps going on about, another reason I looked forward to this game was that there would be NO endgame. Or put more correctly everyone would have access to all the “Cool stuff” right through from level 1 to level 80. So perhaps we all have to change our perspective on that. Perhaps the question we should be asking is not “what cool things can they give level 80’s or what can we do to make dungeons more fun etc?”, should be “what new cool things can we add to the game to keep us entertained and challenged”? Also if dungeons are not fun right now perhaps they should look at why they are not fun and fix what is wrong with that.

There are things I am sure Anet are planning on to answer that question. I am hoping they are more in the forms of minigames such as the current keg brawling. I think adding things like this with collectable rewards/titles is the way to go to keep the game fresh and fun for everyone.

There is so much that can be fun in games that we can have here if we only pool our ideas together and let them be heard and decided on by Anet. Mmos don’t have to always be – grind – kill monsters – raid/dungeon runs whatever – craft a little – get bored, next game.

Things can to be added that are fun in themselves for doing. Well thats my 2 copper worth anyway. :P

Dungeons need:
Dungeon Finder

Also Dungeon Dailies:
Completing a dungeon storymode daily (offered ONLY after you have completed results in a set of 5 or 10 tokens for explorable mode Of that dungeon.

Completing a dungeon daily offers not only the tokens you loot from that dungeon, but a set of tokens from any dungeon you choose equal to that of a full run.

Both would also reward a size able chunk of $$$/xp.

Each daily can be run once per day. The story mode will help out lower levels looking to run content that will be “old” and useless to most by having essentially anyone the dungeon level + join in.

If they really wanted to get in depth they could do a daily dungeon + path so you are forced to go different routes. If that would deter I don’t know though.

If you consider end-game everything you listed in your OP than yes this has end game. But no progression. The only thing left to do is to unlock achievements, like in a console game, after you beat it. People don’t like that once you get to 80 there is no reward for getting there, getting 80 just makes WvWvW more fair now since you have all your traits, skill points and gear taken care of

Paulytnz.7619:

“There will be new content, both free and paid. Colin Johanson is on record stating that ANet intends to give us more content for free than any other MMO releases. "

It will be interesting to see if they can make true on this. I came from another game which gives a lot of content and very often. The problem is a lot of that content is not quality. So I hope that this “more content for free than any other MMO releases” is exactly that – quality. Although I am sure it will be after seeing all the things I have seen both in the game and over the past few months keeping up todate with the state of the game etc.

Now as to this “Endgame” that everyone keeps going on about, another reason I looked forward to this game was that there would be NO endgame. Or put more correctly everyone would have access to all the “Cool stuff” right through from level 1 to level 80. So perhaps we all have to change our perspective on that. Perhaps the question we should be asking is not “what cool things can they give level 80’s or what can we do to make dungeons more fun etc?”, should be “what new cool things can we add to the game to keep us entertained and challenged”? Also if dungeons are not fun right now perhaps they should look at why they are not fun and fix what is wrong with that.

There are things I am sure Anet are planning on to answer that question. I am hoping they are more in the forms of minigames such as the current keg brawling. I think adding things like this with collectable rewards/titles is the way to go to keep the game fresh and fun for everyone.

There is so much that can be fun in games that we can have here if we only pool our ideas together and let them be heard and decided on by Anet. Mmos don’t have to always be – grind – kill monsters – raid/dungeon runs whatever – craft a little – get bored, next game.

Things can to be added that are fun in themselves for doing. Well thats my 2 copper worth anyway. :P

This is a very sensible post.

People need a sense of reward. Adding more sort of collectible items would be a non game changing way of giving players more sense of “progression”. And further mini games would be nice as well.

What this game really needs is PvP – Pirate vs Pirate! A pvp game where players try to destroy or board and capture the other teams ship. Man cannons, use row boats, and fill the water with deadly sharks so swimming over to the enemy ship is not a great option. It would be great, imagine shooting an enemy boarding partys row boat with a cannon and seeing them eaten by sharks!

“What this game really needs is PvP – Pirate vs Pirate! A pvp game where players try to destroy or board and capture the other teams ship. Man cannons, use row boats, and fill the water with deadly sharks so swimming over to the enemy ship is not a great option. It would be great, imagine shooting an enemy boarding partys row boat with a cannon and seeing them eaten by sharks!”

Lol I love this idea!

Save it for the suggestions board or whatever they finally do to let our ideas be heard. Aye me’hearty! :P

I think gear farming’s just about right. u need to do it for a while and those like me who enjoy running explorables most will do it, other won’t. simple

Baromega.6509:

No, its not 100+ and I don’t have the exact number but I know it’s freaking ludicrous. Around 60 if memory serves. Couple that with the fact that explorable modes are just way too tedious and there is simply no motivation.

Key word is tedious by the way. They’re not difficult, they’re just boring as heck.

Yup, the bottom line is, there is alot of content HOWEVER:

1) The majority of dungeon content is primitive, un-inspired compared to the competition.

2) Loot tables and token farm is obsurd.

3) Too chaotic, its not fun or good reflexes, its pretty much Diablo III’s ridiculousness in MMORPG format. Its not hard, its just cheap, tedious and outdated.

The majority of the game is great, but the long term PvE goals are rubbish.

If only DUSK would stop linking the same old crap. point is most people are bored of the 1-80 “structred dungeon content” and reality is most PvErs like said content.

Is it your problem? no? is A-Net going to lose alot of people over it? yes.

“Buh buh no monthly sub” – So friggin what? they have a gem store that preys on the hardcore. and most MMOs are free2play with cashshop like this now and still manage to cater to everyone.

You guys need a bunch of dailies to do. Yee the achievement system has it, but people aren’t going to keep doing the same ones over and over again. Try having special events that brings players coming. WoW does a good job witht seasons and other events that come up. My favorite daily from WoW duting Cata time was in the firelands. There was a lot of stuff to do and this would attract many players.

Balance the PvP and make gear less undesirable to get since it takes so many dungeons runs to achieve. Make the dungeon runs worth it or change it all together. Do challenges with each of them or and make the gear a lot more desirable. Good looking gear always motivates a player to get it

I think it will be very interesting when the fast-leveling, easily-bored people finally move on to another game and the rest of us can enjoy GW2 in peace.