Guild Wars 2

Protoavis.9107:

Gabby.3205:

Note: The difference between exotic and ascended is 5% plus an infusion slot. Maybe someone thinks that 5% is a huge advantage, but I don’t.
You only need ascended stuff if:
A) You run high lvl fractals and need more AR.
B) You find the skins absolutely beautiful (I’m here)
C) You like to put the blame on the equipment when someone kills you in WvW.

5% stat wise, you need to factor in the weapon base damage though which is used as the basis of damage….makes that 5% increase in stats far more than 5% damage output

You are correct, sorry. The damage output difference is something between 10% and 16% depending on the stat combo, according to Google. I don’t know if these calculations are accurate, but I’m assuming that they are. For characters with low HP and armor in WvW, that extra damage per hit from an enemy can be deadly, I’ll give you that. Still, it is not relevant for PvE imo.

Anyway, I can’t play for many hours a day (except for weekends and Wednesdays) so I got only huntsman to 500 (working on weaponsmith now). Never bought gems, probably never will, will get there on my own pace and with the gold I get by doing stuff that I enjoy (mostly, zerging around. I love zergs). The skins are too pretty to pass. I need them. Mostly, the pistol, the GS and the staff.

Hmm. I had an asuran warrior, decided nope this just isn’t working so i deleted that char and made a brand new sylvari warrior. At the time of deletion I had a whopping 5g in my bank and had emptied my karma on silly boxes. In 53 hours of play (Using /age) I had mapped the world and earned enough karma to get a full set of temple gear and enough gold to grab a few exotic trinkets so she was usable in dungeons etc. If you expect to play for 3 hours and get fully geared up then yes, you will be disappointed unless a precursor drops for you. It is however all reachable with time.
Map the world, it works, its shorter than you think and its a heck of a lot of fun.

Protoavis.9107:

Gabby.3205:

Note: The difference between exotic and ascended is 5% plus an infusion slot. Maybe someone thinks that 5% is a huge advantage, but I don’t.
You only need ascended stuff if:
A) You run high lvl fractals and need more AR.
B) You find the skins absolutely beautiful (I’m here)
C) You like to put the blame on the equipment when someone kills you in WvW.

5% stat wise, you need to factor in the weapon base damage though which is used as the basis of damage….makes that 5% increase in stats far more than 5% damage output

Yes, but anyone can make the weapons without ever purchasing gems. Buying gems gives no advantage.

Guhracie.3419:

Protoavis.9107:

Gabby.3205:

Note: The difference between exotic and ascended is 5% plus an infusion slot. Maybe someone thinks that 5% is a huge advantage, but I don’t.
You only need ascended stuff if:
A) You run high lvl fractals and need more AR.
B) You find the skins absolutely beautiful (I’m here)
C) You like to put the blame on the equipment when someone kills you in WvW.

5% stat wise, you need to factor in the weapon base damage though which is used as the basis of damage….makes that 5% increase in stats far more than 5% damage output

Yes, but anyone can make the weapons without ever purchasing gems. Buying gems gives no advantage.

I pointed that out on page 1…I was more clarifying the fact that the 5% stat increase people throw around isn’t equal to 5% damage increase that people tend to assume.

Protoavis.9107:

Guhracie.3419:

Protoavis.9107:

Gabby.3205:

Note: The difference between exotic and ascended is 5% plus an infusion slot. Maybe someone thinks that 5% is a huge advantage, but I don’t.
You only need ascended stuff if:
A) You run high lvl fractals and need more AR.
B) You find the skins absolutely beautiful (I’m here)
C) You like to put the blame on the equipment when someone kills you in WvW.

5% stat wise, you need to factor in the weapon base damage though which is used as the basis of damage….makes that 5% increase in stats far more than 5% damage output

Yes, but anyone can make the weapons without ever purchasing gems. Buying gems gives no advantage.

I pointed that out on page 1…I was more clarifying the fact that the 5% stat increase people throw around isn’t equal to 5% damage increase that people tend to assume.

Ah, so sorry. This topic is just so bizarre to me.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Serv.6073:

How are non gem buyers supposed to compete with players who buy gems? I feel gw2 is becoming another mmo where you have to pay with real life money to be the best or grind until you are dead.

your argument is invalid.

all grind is optional in guild wars 2.

Every time I see/hear of something as being ‘optional’ it makes me think of Sarge in Red Vs. Blue saying “Options are optional.”
(had the episode linked, but due to the explicit nature those episodes I thought it best to not include it after all. Episode name is “Dealer Incentive” if you want to youtube it to see the reference)
:)

On topic though.
I’ve not once seen or felt that there was any aspect of the game that was only acquirable by spending real world money. However, grind being the only way to attain some items is very obvious, and intentional. Luckily for me, Deimos Tel Arin is right in saying that they are optional and are not required to maintain having ‘the best’ (which I assume you mean in stats and not in appearance as ‘best’ appearance is entirely subjective). Another aspect in which I am fortunate is that the items which require a lot of grinding to acquire also do not appeal to me in either a functional or aesthetic way.

Also, “to be the best”, as you stated, requires much more than simply having the highest stat valued items equipped.

McFly.2134:

Every person that posts this “expensive crafting” note always glosses over the point that you can get ascended weapon chest from Fractals level 26+. At the higher levels they drop pretty frequently compared to other things. Fractals aren’t hard. By the time you get to level 10 where the agony kicks in, you “SHOULD” already know the mechanics of every fractal (unless you were powerleveled through which I notice a lot of people are). All the ascended trinkets with agony resistance I’ve gotten are through the course of doing said fractals. You earn them along the way.

Just to correct this as the level is way off – Ascended weapon chests start dropping from the Jade Maw bonus chest at level 10 (which is even better for the point you were making )

Serv.6073:

How are non gem buyers supposed to compete with players who buy gems? I feel gw2 is becoming another mmo where you have to pay with real life money to be the best or grind until you are dead.

That’s stupid. I have only been playing for two months. This is my third month playing.

I have spent zero real money on the game.

I have achieved the “Golden” title (which means I have held 200 gold in my hands at some point), I have two characters fully decked in Exotics, the only thing I am missing is Ascended and Legendary — and I can spend Laurels to get Ascendeds if I wanted to. Legendaries… that’s gonna take a lot longer.

But pooh. Basically you can play this game and compete just fine without spending a cent outside of the cost of buying the game. I have just started WVW last week and I have already racked 100 kills. How is that for competing?

You just need to learn the game and figure out what to do. My tip: if you want gold and gear, do Dungeon Runs. They’ll be hard at first but after a few runs you’ll do them easy. I can make 10 gold a day on dungeon runs easy just by running 6 dungeon paths or so. You can make more if you’re more dedicated. These are quick runs, taking like 10-20 minutes each, usually less if you’re with a good party.

Added benefit are the dungeon tokens which you can trade in for exotic gear at Lion’s Arch.

Thank God for the gem store. It follows a pattern that is essential for a game these days in giving players, returning players or new players a way to “catch up” and buy gear that would take too long to “earn” in game.

Mind you the key is “catch up” which GW2 does well. There is no “getting ahead” of a player who slugs thru the content because they have more time. That would be a problem. There are some purchase only skins and some cool looking and nominally better gear in the game you can’t buy. That helps have people spend money and time. Common sense.

The Gem Shop is one of the highlights of good balance that GW2 has. It is getting to the point that you will need to soon see ascended gear be purchasable though.

For the record, I don’t see gold for gems as an issue.

However, I’d like to point out that all of the statements that you can’t buy Ascended Weapons are a little misleading. Yes, you can’t buy dragonite, empyreal, or bloodstone. You can, however, buy everything else. Mithrillium and Spirit Residue is time-gated and account bound, but you can buy Deldrimor Ingots and Spiritwood Planks made with them, so there’s no limit there if you have the resources. You have to farm the components for your Vision Crystal, but the huge quantities of metal, wood, and even time-gated Ectoplasm Refinement can be short-cut with gold.

And that’s not even accounting for arguably the largest barrier to ascended weapons, leveling a craft from 400 to 500. There’s a ridiculous amount of mats that go into that process, all of which can be bought outright and completed in an hour if you have a ton of gold sitting around.

In the interests of context, I have the three weapon crafts at 500/460/425, and have bought gold with gems in the past.

TL;DR: It’s misleading to say you can’t buy Ascended Weapons. You can buy everything needed except the Vision Crystal.

GW2 has one of the best cash shops out there and one of the best balances between gem buying players and non-buyers……..and people still cry P2W

rubs forehead and walks out of topic in disgust

Gibson.4036:

However, I’d like to point out that all of the statements that you can’t buy Ascended Weapons are a little misleading. Yes, you can’t buy dragonite, empyreal, or bloodstone. You can, however, buy everything else. Mithrillium and Spirit Residue is time-gated and account bound, but you can buy Deldrimor Ingots and Spiritwood Planks made with them, so there’s no limit there if you have the resources. You have to farm the components for your Vision Crystal, but the huge quantities of metal, wood, and even time-gated Ectoplasm Refinement can be short-cut with gold.

I was under the impression that the Inscriptions were designed to be tradeable in order to give crafters something more valuable to sell than “exotic gear for people to toss in the Mystic Forge.” And, sure enough, Deldimor Steel & friends, and ascended inscriptions, all look pretty valuable. I haven’t done the calculations to see how much profit they’re making, once you take out the cost for materials, but apparently some people think it’s a worthwhile business, given a quick look on the TP. It still lets the wealthy cut through part of the process, but it makes crafting a more interesting market, so there’s a trade-off there, and I think it makes the process as a whole more flexible and interesting.

Redenaz.8631:

I was under the impression that the Inscriptions were designed to be tradeable in order to give crafters something more valuable to sell than “exotic gear for people to toss in the Mystic Forge.” And, sure enough, Deldimor Steel & friends, and ascended inscriptions, all look pretty valuable. I haven’t done the calculations to see how much profit they’re making, once you take out the cost for materials, but apparently some people think it’s a worthwhile business, given a quick look on the TP. It still lets the wealthy cut through part of the process, but it makes crafting a more interesting market, so there’s a trade-off there, and I think it makes the process as a whole more flexible and interesting.

Yes. My intent wasn’t to criticize the system, just to point out that making the statement, “Ascended Weapons can’t be bought” is misleading, as a huge portion of everything that’s required to make them can be bought. Vision Crystals are a small, though significant, portion of an Ascended weapon, and the only part that can’t be short-cut with money.

My post was intended to make this point without weighing in on whether the game is P2W or not, Ascended Weapons have significant stats or not, but just to point out a problem in the argument so far.

stale.9785:

Conncept.7638:

I don’t even know anybody who buys gems, it’s more a matter of how can players who have real lives compete with ‘hardcores’ whose 24/7 farming constantly damages the economy?

Just a note, and this should be put out each and every time someone who thinks farming hurts the economy. By definition, farming adds materials to the game – this results in an overall DROP in the price of the materials. Farmers are not to blame for inflation.

Comparatively, the power traders, who add literally thousands of gold to the game daily, directly cause inflation, even after allowing for the TP “tax”.

For real life examples, read some history. Adding more money to an economy, without adding goods to offset the money, results in runaway inflation.

How exactly are Power Traders adding gold to the economy? Did you mean Power farmers? Cause traders add no gold to the economy, farmers on the other hand do.

Gibson.4036:

Vision Crystals are a small, though significant, portion of an Ascended weapon, and the only part that can’t be short-cut with money.

My post was intended to just to point out a problem in the argument so far.

Not to harp on specifics much more but to semi-correct you, per their argument Vision Crystals are still something able to be “shortcutted” through money. Vision Crystals are crafted through a combination of skill points and ascended mats. Those skill points can be achieved at a faster/more efficient rate with store bought items. Those ascended mats and crafting levels can be achieved at a faster/more efficient rate through store bought items. Thus, Vision Crystals are “shortcut-able” vis-a-vis their requirements to build.

This comment is only meant to qualify their argument. Of course the whole of their argument is still only strong if the cash shop is the ONLY place to find these shortcuts (boosters). Which it’s not. You can earn them in-game naturally. So the argument is weak. I still disagree with the overall QQ about it being hard to make money.

Gabby.3205:

Protoavis.9107:

Gabby.3205:

Note: The difference between exotic and ascended is 5% plus an infusion slot. Maybe someone thinks that 5% is a huge advantage, but I don’t.
You only need ascended stuff if:
A) You run high lvl fractals and need more AR.
B) You find the skins absolutely beautiful (I’m here)
C) You like to put the blame on the equipment when someone kills you in WvW.

5% stat wise, you need to factor in the weapon base damage though which is used as the basis of damage….makes that 5% increase in stats far more than 5% damage output

You are correct, sorry. The damage output difference is something between 10% and 16% depending on the stat combo, according to Google. I don’t know if these calculations are accurate, but I’m assuming that they are. For characters with low HP and armor in WvW, that extra damage per hit from an enemy can be deadly, I’ll give you that. Still, it is not relevant for PvE imo.

Anyway, I can’t play for many hours a day (except for weekends and Wednesdays) so I got only huntsman to 500 (working on weaponsmith now). Never bought gems, probably never will, will get there on my own pace and with the gold I get by doing stuff that I enjoy (mostly, zerging around. I love zergs). The skins are too pretty to pass. I need them. Mostly, the pistol, the GS and the staff.

I don’t see how you can arrive at 10% to 16% additional damage. The additional weapon strength is just slightly under 5%. The percent increase in power depends on your current power. It ranges from around 0.5% for high power builds to 1% for lower power builds. The extra precision will increase your critical chance by 0 or 1. Someone with 2000 condition damage(not sure what the max is for a condition build) would gain about 0.7% damage per condition

My weapons and armor are exotics I’ve gotten as drops or crafted through materials I grinded for. There’s no need for me to grind further for ascended, in the grand scheme of things. You don’t need anything out of the ca$h $hop to play the game, either. If you do, at the end of the day you wasted real life money on a virtual item you don’t need and you really don’t have anything to show for it. To each their own.

What exactly can you do to become poor? in pve at least.
World boss, dungeon, champ farm, gathering. Unless not touching any of these, I don’t know how it is possible to become poor.

Teege.4623:

My weapons and armor are exotics I’ve gotten as drops or crafted through materials I grinded for. There’s no need for me to grind further for ascended, in the grand scheme of things. You don’t need anything out of the ca$h $hop to play the game, either. If you do, at the end of the day you wasted real life money on a virtual item you don’t need and you really don’t have anything to show for it. To each their own.

Heh that is certainly true in my case. Can’t show off character/bag/bank slots. :P

Buying gems saves time, no adavantage is given.

Next I’ll be reading that people who play 24/7 have an unfair advantage and everyone should be limited to 1 hour of game time so everything is fair.

Fair… what a concept.

eisberg.2379:

stale.9785:

Conncept.7638:

I don’t even know anybody who buys gems, it’s more a matter of how can players who have real lives compete with ‘hardcores’ whose 24/7 farming constantly damages the economy?

Just a note, and this should be put out each and every time someone who thinks farming hurts the economy. By definition, farming adds materials to the game – this results in an overall DROP in the price of the materials. Farmers are not to blame for inflation.

Comparatively, the power traders, who add literally thousands of gold to the game daily, directly cause inflation, even after allowing for the TP “tax”.

For real life examples, read some history. Adding more money to an economy, without adding goods to offset the money, results in runaway inflation.

How exactly are Power Traders adding gold to the economy? Did you mean Power farmers? Cause traders add no gold to the economy, farmers on the other hand do.

I know right, Power Traders actually remove gold from the system by causing a double+ tax (ie when they initially bought it and when they resell it) on items.

Khisanth.2948:

Gabby.3205:

Protoavis.9107:

Gabby.3205:

Note: The difference between exotic and ascended is 5% plus an infusion slot. Maybe someone thinks that 5% is a huge advantage, but I don’t.
You only need ascended stuff if:
A) You run high lvl fractals and need more AR.
B) You find the skins absolutely beautiful (I’m here)
C) You like to put the blame on the equipment when someone kills you in WvW.

5% stat wise, you need to factor in the weapon base damage though which is used as the basis of damage….makes that 5% increase in stats far more than 5% damage output

You are correct, sorry. The damage output difference is something between 10% and 16% depending on the stat combo, according to Google. I don’t know if these calculations are accurate, but I’m assuming that they are. For characters with low HP and armor in WvW, that extra damage per hit from an enemy can be deadly, I’ll give you that. Still, it is not relevant for PvE imo.

Anyway, I can’t play for many hours a day (except for weekends and Wednesdays) so I got only huntsman to 500 (working on weaponsmith now). Never bought gems, probably never will, will get there on my own pace and with the gold I get by doing stuff that I enjoy (mostly, zerging around. I love zergs). The skins are too pretty to pass. I need them. Mostly, the pistol, the GS and the staff.

I don’t see how you can arrive at 10% to 16% additional damage. The additional weapon strength is just slightly under 5%. The percent increase in power depends on your current power. It ranges from around 0.5% for high power builds to 1% for lower power builds. The extra precision will increase your critical chance by 0 or 1. Someone with 2000 condition damage(not sure what the max is for a condition build) would gain about 0.7% damage per condition

look at a zerker build, condition damage scales differently for some reason.

Serv.6073:

How are non gem buyers supposed to compete with players who buy gems? I feel gw2 is becoming another mmo where you have to pay with real life money to be the best or grind until you are dead.

i am a non-gembuyer, and i have a Bolt and a Kudzu…

and i didn’t buy gold either…..

all i have is time….

still alive, and not dead yet

Ok to start off, I am going to say I completely disagree with OP. Yes I am a player that does purchase in game gold, but I do this because A ) I am Lazy B ) I can just play the game C ) I like a lot of the more costly Cosmetics and D ) should I be short on gold at the time and want to make changes, I can no problems, but either way it all amounts to the fact that I am just purely lazy when it comes to earning gold. Yes I do earn in game gold, but for the most part I am lazy. The advantage gained by the rich, is marginal at best. Why do I say this. The simple answer is the difference between Ascended and Exotic is very small and at the end of the day, if you are an extremely skilled player, that marginal difference in stats will count for nothing. The likely hood is the skilled player will come out on top always. I did some basic maths and based on this, the increase in stats would be approximately 5-10% difference, with a full set of ascended, at the very most (notice I said full set, this means armour whenever it is introduced). Yeah sure that’s a difference, but sadly it’s not enough to make a huge difference and at the end of the day, obtaining a set of ascended trinkets, isn’t that difficult.
Now the rich, what do they gain. Nothing. I say this because firstly earning money in game is not hard, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You don’t need a large pool of money to buy a good looking set of armour and especially don’t need a large pool of money to afford good gear. The only time you may ever actually feel you need to spend money, is if you want transmutation stones and even then, you can earn in game gold to purchase the transmutation stones.

TL;DR. You obviously have not played this game long enough to determine that you don’t need to be rich to be competitive in any aspect of the game. Just to let you know, I’ve been playing this game from the very beginning and have met many players that have earned their gold without making any purchases.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Serv.6073:

How are non gem buyers supposed to compete with players who buy gems? I feel gw2 is becoming another mmo where you have to pay with real life money to be the best or grind until you are dead.

If you feel you can’t beat the game without buying Gems, you’re doing it wrong. It’s not a rich or poor issue, it’s learn to play.

Its not a learn to play issue, its a how long are you willing to wait issue, if you want a legendary immediately they use Gems if you want to wait years great for free..

Dante.1508:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Serv.6073:

How are non gem buyers supposed to compete with players who buy gems? I feel gw2 is becoming another mmo where you have to pay with real life money to be the best or grind until you are dead.

If you feel you can’t beat the game without buying Gems, you’re doing it wrong. It’s not a rich or poor issue, it’s learn to play.

Its not a learn to play issue, its a how long are you willing to wait issue, if you want a legendary immediately they use Gems if you want to wait years great for free..

wow, I got 2 legendaries since May 2013 up till now did it reach years? learn how to play the game, learn where to farm, learn how to gamble in Mystic Toilet, learn how to run dungeons, earn friends to play with.

EDIT: I NEVER BOUGHT GEM WITH REAL CASH, heck I even have ALL the gem store skins and unlimited charges of axe, pickaxe and the other thing.

I even hold Q&A sessions in lvl1-15 maps and give gold ranging from 1-10g per question.

so tell me again, how does gem store helping me with this? The only sort of advantage I have is my cosmetic looks but it does not affect your interaction with enemy NPC, players even dungeons and wvw.