The problem with people demanding zerker
Honestly, it’s absolutely not hard to find a non-zerker dungeon group. You’re complaining about being looked down upon by Zerkers but that’s, what? On the forums? In the occasional PUG?
I think the concern is with the growing mentality in the game that non-zerker is not acceptable. And it is becoming more prevelent. Soon this issue is going to be just like UWSC. Either you conform, or you simply dont do it.
… Except I used to do UWSC all the time in GW1 without conforming to the meta for it.
So what you’re saying is that it’s going to become an issue in the sense that people are going to continue to complain about what -might- happen, but is easily avoided.
You realize its not ‘UWSC’ if you’re not ‘conforming to the meta’ correct?
The speed clear was an ele, a necro, a rit, and a bunch of flippin sins…occassionally they’d allow a terratank ele for wastes but not often. At the end if you didnt have 100s of stones and maxed pve skills, most groups wouldnt take you.
If you tried to find ‘other’ types of groups to do it (like old school balance) you’d get laughed out of ToA. It was SC or bust.
Been there, done that. DONT want to see it happen again, and we are well on the path to it. The ‘zerk’ warrior, mes, or guard only requests are becoming more and more prevelant. The sc sickness is starting to take over for dungeons, in less than a year, so I’d say we have a justifiable concern.
I actually realized it shortly after posting it, but didn’t bother changing it assuming that my point would ultimately get across anyhow.
My point ultimately was that I had no issue finding groups to go to Underworld with and I wasn’t doing SC and I see absolutely no indication of this taking over dungeons aside from the forums.
I actually realized it shortly after posting it, but didn’t bother changing it assuming that my point would ultimately get across anyhow.
My point ultimately was that I had no issue finding groups to go to Underworld with and I wasn’t doing SC and I see absolutely no indication of this taking over dungeons aside from the forums.
Perhaps you had a larger friends list than mine, and used fewer pugs for UW. I liked to PuG, for the sheer enjoyment of meeting new people. Before SCs it was easy to find pug groups (won’t say they were all good, but much easier to find). After….poof, gone.
As for the SCs of the GW2 dungeons…I saw a little bit here and there before. Now, its starting to crop more. On here, on gw2lfg . net/com, even in the map chat lfg calls. I’m starting to see it more and more, and its very disheartening. I can still find ‘regular’ groups for now…
Well, ultimately this is a design fault. There are plenty of people that like to do things efficiently and don’t understand why you wouldn’t choose to be efficient. There is absolutely nothing wrong with their way of thinking and ultimately the fault is more on design than on players.
Not to say that some of the players aren’t kittens about it, just to say that this is a natural evolution stemming from the way the game is designed.
We can only hope for more diverse enemy encounters and designs that make raw DPS less valuable than it is now and causes things like conditions or non-dodge based survivability to be more valuable.
I think we’re slowly seeing the design get better in PvE content, personally, and we’ve been told that the latter half of this year will be focused on improving existing dungeons. So maybe, before too long, other gear-types can be seen as more valuable than they are at present.
There is nothing better than DPS in this game, and zerker gear maximises DPS. Therefore, how is it not the best?
Ask ANet, once more why they allow stat diversity? “For WvW/PvP” is not the official developer answer as far as I know.
And the answer to your question is that not everybody plays your way, and that’s OK too-you shouldn’t find fault with that. Everybody’s “best” is different, and incredibly (for you), what’s best for someone out there may not be what’s more “efficient”, regardless math and youtube videos.
People are not selfish for using healing gear-they are exercising their free-will to play the game their way. Don’t play with them, but don’t find a problem with it-that is the solution.
And I agree with the notion that encounters should be better balanced so that the idea that “only DPS wins” is at the very least balanced with alternate, fun builds for everybody based on other stats. Condition, CC runners, builds with decent Healing Power, etc. also deserve their own niche in the game (well, they can have it, but they are usually frowned upon by people who don’t understand that GW2 PvE is not by definition a speedrun.)
In short, the idea of “Berserker’s is the right way” to play only theoretically applies to the fastest speed-running approach, and since not everybody plays that way, it’s futile to criticize others as selfish, stupid, or other things for not playing the game the way you do.
If the criteria for “best” is contributes most to the party, then full berserker is the best. If you want to apply different criteria, then I’m not interested in debating this.
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
IMO, people want ‘zerker gear, mistakenly or otherwise, to clear dungeons faster. When they’ve done a dungeon often enough and become familiar with the mechanics, survival is less and less of a challenge and therefore, they turn to improving damage. Unfortunately, because of the dodge mechanic, going completely offensive becomes feasible, removing interdependence and causing an elitist mindset to develop.
I don’t use ’zerker gear myself (I need help surviving) and dislike the existence of such elitism but can appreciate their contribution to party damage when they deign to party with me. :P
MF is a different story. Its a trait that only benefits the wearer. The reason you don’t see “MF gear only” dungeon parties only reflects the parasitic nature of MF.
With regards to OP’s “play how they like”, sure, if you’re playing alone or in a mass-tag event, no one is stopping you from farming PVE with MF. You sacrifice damage and/or survivability to your own detriment. In a dungeons or fractal, unfortunately, we also need to consider that others want to “play how they like” too i.e. not to be dragged down be a leech.
If MF is not to be removed, it needs to be kept out of party based activities like dungeons and fractals.
There is nothing better than DPS in this game, and zerker gear maximises DPS. Therefore, how is it not the best?
Ask ANet, once more why they allow stat diversity? “For WvW/PvP” is not the official developer answer as far as I know.
And the answer to your question is that not everybody plays your way, and that’s OK too-you shouldn’t find fault with that. Everybody’s “best” is different, and incredibly (for you), what’s best for someone out there may not be what’s more “efficient”, regardless math and youtube videos.
People are not selfish for using healing gear-they are exercising their free-will to play the game their way. Don’t play with them, but don’t find a problem with it-that is the solution.
And I agree with the notion that encounters should be better balanced so that the idea that “only DPS wins” is at the very least balanced with alternate, fun builds for everybody based on other stats. Condition, CC runners, builds with decent Healing Power, etc. also deserve their own niche in the game (well, they can have it, but they are usually frowned upon by people who don’t understand that GW2 PvE is not by definition a speedrun.)
In short, the idea of “Berserker’s is the right way” to play only theoretically applies to the fastest speed-running approach, and since not everybody plays that way, it’s futile to criticize others as selfish, stupid, or other things for not playing the game the way you do.
If the criteria for “best” is contributes most to the party, then full berserker is the best. If you want to apply different criteria, then I’m not interested in debating this.
While I disagree with that as well, I agree that it’s worthless to discuss anything if you only see GW2 as a speedrun, because not every player is like you and will naturally dissent. Won’t lead anywhere, and it’s not worth our time.
Nothing contributes more to a party than damage or preventing damage so you can deal damage.
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
While I disagree with that as well, I agree that it’s worthless to discuss anything if you only see GW2 as a speedrun, because not every player is like you and will naturally dissent. Won’t lead anywhere, and it’s not worth our time.
Best is subjective…
People keep tossing that around. The word is optimal, or perhaps most efficient.
Full berserker may not be best for a person who wants to intentionally slow down their progression to “smell the roses”, full berserker may not be best for the person with an average 500 latency who cant dodge timely enough because of no fault of their own, full berserker may not be best for the person who just doesn’t have the reflexes or situational awareness to keep themselves up harder boss fights.
However full berserker is the fastest most efficient, and ultimately the optimal way to defeat every PvE encounter in this game if we assume the player does not have any handicaps or want to intentionally not be as efficient.
The only reason people do not use berserker gear is because they cannot survive in it, they don’t yet know or understand that it is optimal, or they simply do not wish to put forth the effort to be successful in it. (I get that, it can take a lot more work to survive in Zerk than PVT). This translates to those in the know as that player being a bad player, an ignorant player, or a lazy player. These are not traits that reflect well on that player. This is why those people chose to section themselves away from anyone who falls into that category.
The only reason people do not use berserker gear is because they cannot survive in it, they don’t yet know or understand that it is optimal, or they simply do not wish to put forth the effort to be successful in it. (I get that, it can take a lot more work to survive in Zerk than PVT). This translates to those in the know as that player being a bad player, an ignorant player, or a lazy player. These are not traits that reflect well on that player. This is why those people chose to section themselves away from anyone who falls into that category.
That’s what YOU think about people who don’t use Berserker’s gear, not the truth. You missed (among who knows how many other reasons):
-Role playing reasons (some people have RP reasons to use whatever gear, including Berserker’s gear)
-Simply prefer other playstyle
-Some players have Berserker’s and alternate gear on one character, and can use both for fun in a Dungeon. Can’t explain this with your logic.
So in short, you clearly know less than you think that if the “only” reasons people don’t use the gear is inadequacy, laziness, or ignorance. It’s insulting to players-nevermind that you really don’t know the people you “don’t want to associate yourself with.”
However full berserker is the fastest most efficient, and ultimately the optimal way to defeat every PvE encounter in this game if we assume the player does not have any handicaps or want to intentionally not be as efficient.
Also, does “every PvE encounter in this game” includes tons of Orr mobs on top of one single player? Because I sure know from experience that my more offensive characters die quickly under such dire circumstances, where as a defensive build I rarely use has little problem (and yes, she still has to dodge and plays very carefully.) I can’t believe you really believe that a “zerker” would thrive against EVERY single encounter on PvE.
Of course, one could argue that those mobs aren’t meant to be taken full-force, but that’s what the so-called “useless” defensive gear allows you to do. So much for “uselessness”, and for the argument that non-zerk stats are meant for WvW only.
I have seen the argument too “everything works on easy PvE map” but it’s exactly there that “Zerker” players fail the most, especially on specific, difficult encounters in which they take a lot of small hits during a short time, and no amount of vigor or self-heals will help them.
It has nothing to do with rushing. I play with zerker gear because it’s better, but I still “sit back and enjoy it”.
There’s a large difference between people who want to “sit back and enjoy it”, and people who want to pick weak stats. I know, I know: people enjoy build diversity. So do I, especially as a big GW1 fan. But this game’s design does not treats all builds equally. So don’t blame the players for “rushing in”, blame the systems. It’s the systems and the mechanics in place that discriminate most non-zerker builds.
But the system isn’t flawed, the player’s logic is. I never run with zerker parties and I’ve done every dungeon just fine. Nothing in PvE requires zerker gear(or any other stat combo for that matter), the players do. I just hope that when they release the LFG tool that they make it as easy to see who I don’t want to play with as it is now.
Yes, it is possible to contribute nothing to a group, get carried, and still finish a dungeon. Not all of us want to play that way, however.
What about if you’re all rangers and none of you are zerker. Then how are you being carried?
It has nothing to do with rushing. I play with zerker gear because it’s better, but I still “sit back and enjoy it”.
There’s a large difference between people who want to “sit back and enjoy it”, and people who want to pick weak stats. I know, I know: people enjoy build diversity. So do I, especially as a big GW1 fan. But this game’s design does not treats all builds equally. So don’t blame the players for “rushing in”, blame the systems. It’s the systems and the mechanics in place that discriminate most non-zerker builds.
But the system isn’t flawed, the player’s logic is. I never run with zerker parties and I’ve done every dungeon just fine. Nothing in PvE requires zerker gear(or any other stat combo for that matter), the players do. I just hope that when they release the LFG tool that they make it as easy to see who I don’t want to play with as it is now.
Yes, it is possible to contribute nothing to a group, get carried, and still finish a dungeon. Not all of us want to play that way, however.
What about if you’re all rangers and none of you are zerker. Then how are you being carried?
This is where people take hours and hours on a single path (and then probably never finish) and then complain about contents being too hard
It has nothing to do with rushing. I play with zerker gear because it’s better, but I still “sit back and enjoy it”.
There’s a large difference between people who want to “sit back and enjoy it”, and people who want to pick weak stats. I know, I know: people enjoy build diversity. So do I, especially as a big GW1 fan. But this game’s design does not treats all builds equally. So don’t blame the players for “rushing in”, blame the systems. It’s the systems and the mechanics in place that discriminate most non-zerker builds.
But the system isn’t flawed, the player’s logic is. I never run with zerker parties and I’ve done every dungeon just fine. Nothing in PvE requires zerker gear(or any other stat combo for that matter), the players do. I just hope that when they release the LFG tool that they make it as easy to see who I don’t want to play with as it is now.
Yes, it is possible to contribute nothing to a group, get carried, and still finish a dungeon. Not all of us want to play that way, however.
What about if you’re all rangers and none of you are zerker. Then how are you being carried?
This is where people take hours and hours on a single path (and then probably never finish) and then complain about contents being too hard
You really are underestimating great Ranger gameplay. As much as the Profession could be improved, they can do great things for a Dungeon run.
On the contrary, I think such a run could be pretty fun, and am 100% sure it won’t take “hours” at all; especially if the players are experienced with the Dungeon path in question.
people mad because people are wearing bezerker gear? What?!
/closethread
However full berserker is the fastest most efficient, and ultimately the optimal way to defeat every PvE encounter in this game if we assume the player does not have any handicaps or want to intentionally not be as efficient.
Also, does “every PvE encounter in this game” includes tons of Orr mobs on top of one single player? Because I sure know from experience that my more offensive characters die quickly under such dire circumstances, where as a defensive build I rarely use has little problem (and yes, she still has to dodge and plays very carefully.) I can’t believe you really believe that a “zerker” would thrive against EVERY single encounter on PvE.
Of course, one could argue that those mobs aren’t meant to be taken full-force, but that’s what the so-called “useless” defensive gear allows you to do. So much for “uselessness”, and for the argument that non-zerk stats are meant for WvW only.
I have seen the argument too “everything works on easy PvE map” but it’s exactly there that “Zerker” players fail the most, especially on specific, difficult encounters in which they take a lot of small hits during a short time, and no amount of vigor or self-heals will help them.
Actually, zerker is fine. On my guard, whenever Shank Anchorage glitches out and the nobles all stack up (like 20 risen in one place), I aggro, evade the symbol, blind with virtue, blind with leap of faith, whirling wrath, symbol, heal then just cleave with auto. If they’re not bunched up I can binding blade then whirling wrath.
The only reason a zerker will die in open world PVE is because the event is scaled up, people are sitting around doing whatever and not supporting one another and … the event is scaled up, which results in one-shotting veteran abominations.
Because of how easy open world PVE is though, you’re better off using full magic find if you want your loot to be even slightly decent.
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
- I play a full berserker guardian.
- I also play a non berserker elementalist.
- I have never and will never exclude anyone that doesn’t wear berserker
- I simply feel there is no reason to not inform the uninformed
- All of your examples fall under the “They simply do not wish to” area that I covered.
That’s what YOU think about people who don’t use Berserker’s gear, not the truth. You missed (among who knows how many other reasons):
-Role playing reasons (some people have RP reasons to use whatever gear, including Berserker’s gear) “they simply do not wish to "
-Simply prefer other playstyle “they simply do not wish to "
-Some players have Berserker’s and alternate gear on one character, and can use both for fun in a Dungeon. Can’t explain this with your logic. “they simply do not wish to "
So in short, you clearly know less than you think that if the “only” reasons people don’t use the gear is inadequacy, laziness, or ignorance. It’s insulting to players-nevermind that you really don’t know the people you “don’t want to associate yourself with.”
Not wanting to wear beserker because it makes your play time less fun, more stressful, clashes with your RP or whatever reason you chose knowingly to not be optimized is one of the reasons I talked about. And like I said for people that are putting forth 100% this translates as laziness. Because the person in question Can be in full berserker and can make the run go that much faster or smoother but they chose not to. Not because they cant, but because they simply dont want to.
As far as Which PvE encounters a full berserker built character cannot take… I have not found a single PvE encounter (designed to be beaten by solo play) I have not been able to complete on my full berzerker character, even content not designed for solo play I have beaten solo. like the Risen Priestess of Dwayna. All dungeons and fractals I have been able to complete as a full berserker as well. Though I will say I do keep a set of more defensive gear in case my group turns out to be subpar. In those cases I just pick up the slack and stick it out.
It has nothing to do with rushing. I play with zerker gear because it’s better, but I still “sit back and enjoy it”.
There’s a large difference between people who want to “sit back and enjoy it”, and people who want to pick weak stats. I know, I know: people enjoy build diversity. So do I, especially as a big GW1 fan. But this game’s design does not treats all builds equally. So don’t blame the players for “rushing in”, blame the systems. It’s the systems and the mechanics in place that discriminate most non-zerker builds.
But the system isn’t flawed, the player’s logic is. I never run with zerker parties and I’ve done every dungeon just fine. Nothing in PvE requires zerker gear(or any other stat combo for that matter), the players do. I just hope that when they release the LFG tool that they make it as easy to see who I don’t want to play with as it is now.
Yes, it is possible to contribute nothing to a group, get carried, and still finish a dungeon. Not all of us want to play that way, however.
What about if you’re all rangers and none of you are zerker. Then how are you being carried?
This is where people take hours and hours on a single path (and then probably never finish) and then complain about contents being too hard
You really are underestimating great Ranger gameplay. As much as the Profession could be improved, they can do great things for a Dungeon run.
On the contrary, I think such a run could be pretty fun, and am 100% sure it won’t take “hours” at all; especially if the players are experienced with the Dungeon path in question.
I know what rangers are capable of. The thing is most people that actually knows how to play a ranger in PVE would be wearing berserkers.
It has nothing to do with rushing. I play with zerker gear because it’s better, but I still “sit back and enjoy it”.
There’s a large difference between people who want to “sit back and enjoy it”, and people who want to pick weak stats. I know, I know: people enjoy build diversity. So do I, especially as a big GW1 fan. But this game’s design does not treats all builds equally. So don’t blame the players for “rushing in”, blame the systems. It’s the systems and the mechanics in place that discriminate most non-zerker builds.
But the system isn’t flawed, the player’s logic is. I never run with zerker parties and I’ve done every dungeon just fine. Nothing in PvE requires zerker gear(or any other stat combo for that matter), the players do. I just hope that when they release the LFG tool that they make it as easy to see who I don’t want to play with as it is now.
Yes, it is possible to contribute nothing to a group, get carried, and still finish a dungeon. Not all of us want to play that way, however.
What about if you’re all rangers and none of you are zerker. Then how are you being carried?
This is where people take hours and hours on a single path (and then probably never finish) and then complain about contents being too hard
You really are underestimating great Ranger gameplay. As much as the Profession could be improved, they can do great things for a Dungeon run.
On the contrary, I think such a run could be pretty fun, and am 100% sure it won’t take “hours” at all; especially if the players are experienced with the Dungeon path in question.
I know what rangers are capable of. The thing is most people that actually knows how to play a ranger in PVE would be wearing berserkers.
OK, this is all about arrogance. My way is the right way to play. Can you read it in your own words?
Why not let people play their way without insulting them or their gameplay?
MF Gear was just wrong. Anet realized their mistake. Account-bound mf gear will be much better, as it’ll allow you to diversify your farming experience through several characters, while having them stronger than they would be with MF gear as well.
So, I’ll be able to get 200% MF on my account constant like I can on my ranger??? That’d be awesome… but I some how don’t think it is going to play out like that.
It has nothing to do with rushing. I play with zerker gear because it’s better, but I still “sit back and enjoy it”.
There’s a large difference between people who want to “sit back and enjoy it”, and people who want to pick weak stats. I know, I know: people enjoy build diversity. So do I, especially as a big GW1 fan. But this game’s design does not treats all builds equally. So don’t blame the players for “rushing in”, blame the systems. It’s the systems and the mechanics in place that discriminate most non-zerker builds.
But the system isn’t flawed, the player’s logic is. I never run with zerker parties and I’ve done every dungeon just fine. Nothing in PvE requires zerker gear(or any other stat combo for that matter), the players do. I just hope that when they release the LFG tool that they make it as easy to see who I don’t want to play with as it is now.
Yes, it is possible to contribute nothing to a group, get carried, and still finish a dungeon. Not all of us want to play that way, however.
What about if you’re all rangers and none of you are zerker. Then how are you being carried?
This is where people take hours and hours on a single path (and then probably never finish) and then complain about contents being too hard
You really are underestimating great Ranger gameplay. As much as the Profession could be improved, they can do great things for a Dungeon run.
On the contrary, I think such a run could be pretty fun, and am 100% sure it won’t take “hours” at all; especially if the players are experienced with the Dungeon path in question.
I know what rangers are capable of. The thing is most people that actually knows how to play a ranger in PVE would be wearing berserkers.
OK, this is all about arrogance. My way is the right way to play. Can you read it in your own words?
Why not let people play their way without insulting them or their gameplay?
whoa, who did I just insulted?
However full berserker is the fastest most efficient, and ultimately the optimal way to defeat every PvE encounter in this game if we assume the player does not have any handicaps or want to intentionally not be as efficient.
Also, does “every PvE encounter in this game” includes tons of Orr mobs on top of one single player? Because I sure know from experience that my more offensive characters die quickly under such dire circumstances, where as a defensive build I rarely use has little problem (and yes, she still has to dodge and plays very carefully.) I can’t believe you really believe that a “zerker” would thrive against EVERY single encounter on PvE.
Of course, one could argue that those mobs aren’t meant to be taken full-force, but that’s what the so-called “useless” defensive gear allows you to do. So much for “uselessness”, and for the argument that non-zerk stats are meant for WvW only.
I have seen the argument too “everything works on easy PvE map” but it’s exactly there that “Zerker” players fail the most, especially on specific, difficult encounters in which they take a lot of small hits during a short time, and no amount of vigor or self-heals will help them.
Actually, zerker is fine. On my guard, whenever Shank Anchorage glitches out and the nobles all stack up (like 20 risen in one place), I aggro, evade the symbol, blind with virtue, blind with leap of faith, whirling wrath, symbol, heal then just cleave with auto. If they’re not bunched up I can binding blade then whirling wrath.
The only reason a zerker will die in open world PVE is because the event is scaled up, people are sitting around doing whatever and not supporting one another and … the event is scaled up, which results in one-shotting veteran abominations.
Because of how easy open world PVE is though, you’re better off using full magic find if you want your loot to be even slightly decent.
If zerker is fine, why most zerker’s die under such circumstances? Basically, you are saying people should be unselfish and use Berserker’s, while proving by your own comments that not all Berserker’s (you being an “Exception”) can survive dire situations on PvE.
In short, it’s the best way to play PvE for you, but not for many others, and it’s selfish to deny them the right on “selfishness” grounds, because all that many people want is to have fun with their characters, not just power-play through the game. It’s OK to power-play for you, but others should be allowed the right NOT to power-play, and that DOESN’T mean they are “terrible” players (I don’t see how this is an issue since you can just choose to play with like-minded people-don’t understand the need to call others “terrible” or “selfish” because they are not like you? Ego much?)
“If I can solo the whole game with zerk gear, I don’t see how everybody else can’t do it. Or wait, I am one of the few. Yes I am awesome!” That’s how it sadly comes across. Which ironically, is a point against Berserker’s being the “universally better” gear for PvE.
It has nothing to do with rushing. I play with zerker gear because it’s better, but I still “sit back and enjoy it”.
There’s a large difference between people who want to “sit back and enjoy it”, and people who want to pick weak stats. I know, I know: people enjoy build diversity. So do I, especially as a big GW1 fan. But this game’s design does not treats all builds equally. So don’t blame the players for “rushing in”, blame the systems. It’s the systems and the mechanics in place that discriminate most non-zerker builds.
But the system isn’t flawed, the player’s logic is. I never run with zerker parties and I’ve done every dungeon just fine. Nothing in PvE requires zerker gear(or any other stat combo for that matter), the players do. I just hope that when they release the LFG tool that they make it as easy to see who I don’t want to play with as it is now.
Yes, it is possible to contribute nothing to a group, get carried, and still finish a dungeon. Not all of us want to play that way, however.
What about if you’re all rangers and none of you are zerker. Then how are you being carried?
This is where people take hours and hours on a single path (and then probably never finish) and then complain about contents being too hard
You really are underestimating great Ranger gameplay. As much as the Profession could be improved, they can do great things for a Dungeon run.
On the contrary, I think such a run could be pretty fun, and am 100% sure it won’t take “hours” at all; especially if the players are experienced with the Dungeon path in question.
I know what rangers are capable of. The thing is most people that actually knows how to play a ranger in PVE would be wearing berserkers.
OK, this is all about arrogance. My way is the right way to play. Can you read it in your own words?
Why not let people play their way without insulting them or their gameplay?
whoa, who did I just insulted?
Really? Read it again. “people that know how to play a ranger in PvE would be wearing Berserker’s” Otherwise, “they don’t know how to play.” Not only intolerant and insulting, but simply wrong for many players.
It has nothing to do with rushing. I play with zerker gear because it’s better, but I still “sit back and enjoy it”.
There’s a large difference between people who want to “sit back and enjoy it”, and people who want to pick weak stats. I know, I know: people enjoy build diversity. So do I, especially as a big GW1 fan. But this game’s design does not treats all builds equally. So don’t blame the players for “rushing in”, blame the systems. It’s the systems and the mechanics in place that discriminate most non-zerker builds.
But the system isn’t flawed, the player’s logic is. I never run with zerker parties and I’ve done every dungeon just fine. Nothing in PvE requires zerker gear(or any other stat combo for that matter), the players do. I just hope that when they release the LFG tool that they make it as easy to see who I don’t want to play with as it is now.
Yes, it is possible to contribute nothing to a group, get carried, and still finish a dungeon. Not all of us want to play that way, however.
What about if you’re all rangers and none of you are zerker. Then how are you being carried?
This is where people take hours and hours on a single path (and then probably never finish) and then complain about contents being too hard
You really are underestimating great Ranger gameplay. As much as the Profession could be improved, they can do great things for a Dungeon run.
On the contrary, I think such a run could be pretty fun, and am 100% sure it won’t take “hours” at all; especially if the players are experienced with the Dungeon path in question.
I know what rangers are capable of. The thing is most people that actually knows how to play a ranger in PVE would be wearing berserkers.
OK, this is all about arrogance. My way is the right way to play. Can you read it in your own words?
Why not let people play their way without insulting them or their gameplay?
whoa, who did I just insulted?
Really? Read it again. “people that know how to play a ranger in PvE would be wearing Berserker’s” Otherwise, “they don’t know how to play.” Not only intolerant and insulting, but simply wrong for many players.
You are clearly twisting my words to insult yourself so have fun with that
- I play a full berserker guardian.
- I also play a non berserker elementalist.
- I have never and will never exclude anyone that doesn’t wear berserker
- I simply feel there is no reason to not inform the uninformed
- All of your examples fall under the “They simply do not wish to” area that I covered.
That’s what YOU think about people who don’t use Berserker’s gear, not the truth. You missed (among who knows how many other reasons):
-Role playing reasons (some people have RP reasons to use whatever gear, including Berserker’s gear) “they simply do not wish to "
-Simply prefer other playstyle “they simply do not wish to "
-Some players have Berserker’s and alternate gear on one character, and can use both for fun in a Dungeon. Can’t explain this with your logic. “they simply do not wish to "
So in short, you clearly know less than you think that if the “only” reasons people don’t use the gear is inadequacy, laziness, or ignorance. It’s insulting to players-nevermind that you really don’t know the people you “don’t want to associate yourself with.”
Not wanting to wear beserker because it makes your play time less fun, more stressful, clashes with your RP or whatever reason you chose knowingly to not be optimized is one of the reasons I talked about. And like I said for people that are putting forth 100% this translates as laziness. Because the person in question Can be in full berserker and can make the run go that much faster or smoother but they chose not to. Not because they cant, but because they simply dont want to.
As far as Which PvE encounters a full berserker built character cannot take… I have not found a single PvE encounter (designed to be beaten by solo play) I have not been able to complete on my full berzerker character, even content not designed for solo play I have beaten solo. like the Risen Priestess of Dwayna. All dungeons and fractals I have been able to complete as a full berserker as well. Though I will say I do keep a set of more defensive gear in case my group turns out to be subpar. In those cases I just pick up the slack and stick it out.
The problem is that we have no business caring about whether people think we are lazy or not. Role-playing options are not being lazy. I can spend hours theory-crafting my character’s builds, accommodating pieces here and there that will be BOTH effective and in tune with character concept. How lazy is that vs just adopting the cookie-cutter meta, and just buy full DPS without thought? I dare you call me lazy for loving my characters and making it more about immersion than power-play.
I sincerely hope you are not one of those people who would think that’s lazy, because you would clearly be wrong. Not everyone who chooses anything other than the meta is actually lazy, “selfish”, or a “baddie”.
It has nothing to do with rushing. I play with zerker gear because it’s better, but I still “sit back and enjoy it”.
There’s a large difference between people who want to “sit back and enjoy it”, and people who want to pick weak stats. I know, I know: people enjoy build diversity. So do I, especially as a big GW1 fan. But this game’s design does not treats all builds equally. So don’t blame the players for “rushing in”, blame the systems. It’s the systems and the mechanics in place that discriminate most non-zerker builds.
But the system isn’t flawed, the player’s logic is. I never run with zerker parties and I’ve done every dungeon just fine. Nothing in PvE requires zerker gear(or any other stat combo for that matter), the players do. I just hope that when they release the LFG tool that they make it as easy to see who I don’t want to play with as it is now.
Yes, it is possible to contribute nothing to a group, get carried, and still finish a dungeon. Not all of us want to play that way, however.
What about if you’re all rangers and none of you are zerker. Then how are you being carried?
This is where people take hours and hours on a single path (and then probably never finish) and then complain about contents being too hard
You really are underestimating great Ranger gameplay. As much as the Profession could be improved, they can do great things for a Dungeon run.
On the contrary, I think such a run could be pretty fun, and am 100% sure it won’t take “hours” at all; especially if the players are experienced with the Dungeon path in question.
I know what rangers are capable of. The thing is most people that actually knows how to play a ranger in PVE would be wearing berserkers.
OK, this is all about arrogance. My way is the right way to play. Can you read it in your own words?
Why not let people play their way without insulting them or their gameplay?
whoa, who did I just insulted?
Really? Read it again. “people that know how to play a ranger in PvE would be wearing Berserker’s” Otherwise, “they don’t know how to play.” Not only intolerant and insulting, but simply wrong for many players.
You are clearly twisting my words to insult yourself so have fun with that
My apologies if I offended you, but by saying that “people that know how to play Ranger use Berserker’s” you are clearly stating the opposite “people that don’t know how to play Rangers use non-zerk gear.” And that is an insult, because there are Rangers that do non-zerk PvE play, and you are not giving them the chance to be “good” because “good rangers” MUST use Berserker’s.
However full berserker is the fastest most efficient, and ultimately the optimal way to defeat every PvE encounter in this game if we assume the player does not have any handicaps or want to intentionally not be as efficient.
Also, does “every PvE encounter in this game” includes tons of Orr mobs on top of one single player? Because I sure know from experience that my more offensive characters die quickly under such dire circumstances, where as a defensive build I rarely use has little problem (and yes, she still has to dodge and plays very carefully.) I can’t believe you really believe that a “zerker” would thrive against EVERY single encounter on PvE.
Of course, one could argue that those mobs aren’t meant to be taken full-force, but that’s what the so-called “useless” defensive gear allows you to do. So much for “uselessness”, and for the argument that non-zerk stats are meant for WvW only.
I have seen the argument too “everything works on easy PvE map” but it’s exactly there that “Zerker” players fail the most, especially on specific, difficult encounters in which they take a lot of small hits during a short time, and no amount of vigor or self-heals will help them.
Actually, zerker is fine. On my guard, whenever Shank Anchorage glitches out and the nobles all stack up (like 20 risen in one place), I aggro, evade the symbol, blind with virtue, blind with leap of faith, whirling wrath, symbol, heal then just cleave with auto. If they’re not bunched up I can binding blade then whirling wrath.
The only reason a zerker will die in open world PVE is because the event is scaled up, people are sitting around doing whatever and not supporting one another and … the event is scaled up, which results in one-shotting veteran abominations.
Because of how easy open world PVE is though, you’re better off using full magic find if you want your loot to be even slightly decent.
If zerker is fine, why most zerker’s die under such circumstances? Basically, you are saying people should be unselfish and use Berserker’s, while proving by your own comments that not all Berserker’s (you being an “Exception”) can survive dire situations on PvE.
In short, it’s the best way to play PvE for you, but not for many others, and it’s selfish to deny them the right on “selfishness” grounds, because all that many people want is to have fun with their characters, not just power-play through the game. It’s OK to power-play for you, but others should be allowed the right NOT to power-play, and that DOESN’T mean they are “terrible” players (I don’t see how this is an issue since you can just choose to play with like-minded people-don’t understand the need to call others “terrible” or “selfish” because they are not like you? Ego much?)
“If I can solo the whole game with zerk gear, I don’t see how everybody else can’t do it. Or wait, I am one of the few. Yes I am awesome!” That’s how it sadly comes across. Which ironically, is a point against Berserker’s being the “universally better” gear for PvE.
I already told you zerkers die because of scaling and unsupportive players. Hell, it’s happened to me before, eating abomination one-shots or the big scary boss decides to focus me for whatever reason (my armour is zero and mesmers have dreadful dps … so why would I get aggro).
I’m not even interested in arguing about zerker in open world PVE, you do whatever the hell you want in PVE, I even said to use full magic find. In dungeons however, it’s zerker gear people should be using.
I’m not sure why you’re so hung up on the “selfish” coment I make either, if you use gear that runs stats that buff yourself and don’t help your team (vit and toughness as examples), then it’s selfish. I annoy a lot of people who don’t share my views, so sure I guess that makes me a toolbag. I’m not going to QQ about the people who called me a toolbag though, because jeez it’s just the reality. Again here, not using zerker in a dungeon is down to a player’s incompetence (and therefore more defensive gear as an alternate to help themselves survive, therefore selfish), laziness or flat out just choosing not to, maybe for RP, maybe to make a point because they’re so mad at us zerker players.
You see this is the reason people are always afraid to call out one another, because they always get stick for it. If I’m a bad player and/or do something wrong, I want to be called out on it. People like you however, hate being told that your build isn’t good. It’s viable, sure, everything is viable. But if you’re not running zerker, and you’re in a dungeon, your gear isn’t good, just how when I ran a zerk/knight/valk mixture, that was bad too.
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
I like colesy. He says it like it is.
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
I already told you zerkers die because of scaling and unsupportive players. Hell, it’s happened to me before, eating abomination one-shots or the big scary boss decides to focus me for whatever reason (my armour is zero and mesmers have dreadful dps … so why would I get aggro).
I’m not even interested in arguing about zerker in open world PVE, you do whatever the hell you want in PVE, I even said to use full magic find. In dungeons however, it’s zerker gear people should be using.
I’m not sure why you’re so hung up on the “selfish” coment I make either, if you use gear that runs stats that buff yourself and don’t help your team (vit and toughness as examples), then it’s selfish. I annoy a lot of people who don’t share my views, so sure I guess that makes me a toolbag. I’m not going to QQ about the people who called me a toolbag though, because jeez it’s just the reality. Again here, not using zerker in a dungeon is down to a player’s incompetence (and therefore more defensive gear as an alternate to help themselves survive, therefore selfish), laziness or flat out just choosing not to, maybe for RP, maybe to make a point because they’re so mad at us zerker players.
You see this is the reason people are always afraid to call out one another, because they always get stick for it. If I’m a bad player and/or do something wrong, I want to be called out on it. People like you however, hate being told that your build isn’t good. It’s viable, sure, everything is viable. But if you’re not running zerker, and you’re in a dungeon, your gear isn’t good, just how when I ran a zerk/knight/valk mixture, that was bad too.
If you like being called out, your PvE Dungeon advice is ill-placed, good for many but not for all, and are being an horrible person for calling other names for gear choices that is none of your business to care about. If someone gets into your party and you wanted everything to be run your way, and it is your group, then yes, the player shouldn’t have joined if they didn’t subscribe to your all-knowing preferences. But otherwise, I don’t see how it’s appropriate to insult others, especially their character (“selfishness”) for choosing whatever gear works for them ,even if you wouldn’t use it yourself, ever.
Frankly, I would never insult you for choosing Berserker’s, because that’s your choice, and it works for you. It helps you clear things faster, which is what you prefer, and you barely get hit. For those reasons, however, I can’t understand why you cannot be equally gracious to others who don’t play your way (and especially, since you don’t play with non-“zerk” players anyway?)
(edited by Star Ace.5207)
as far as i remember berserkers or not we all have only 2 free dodge rolls and 1 self heal. after that that are classes skills or utility that add some more dodges. plus armors are heavy, medium and light. so there are many things to consider when we talk “optimal” some classes will be more suited in berserkers gear than other when it comes to survivability.
on the other hand if we all would go to do events in full berserkers gear and maybe stats, most event would fail due to lack of heal boons from other classes, tankier players that can resist longer while ressing downed players etc etc.
so optimal is diversity.
also, i swear there are people that never used different build than berserkers and they don’t even know that not every mob in the game can one shot you!
Join the Rainbow Pride
The problem is that we have no business caring about whether people think we are lazy or not. Role-playing options are not being lazy. I can spend hours theory-crafting my character’s builds, accommodating pieces here and there that will be BOTH effective and in tune with character concept. How lazy is that vs just adopting the cookie-cutter meta, and just buy full DPS without thought? I dare you call me lazy for loving my characters and making it more about immersion than power-play.
I sincerely hope you are not one of those people who would think that’s lazy, because you would clearly be wrong. Not everyone who chooses anything other than the meta is actually lazy, “selfish”, or a “baddie”.
No I’m not but surely you can see why people feel that way?
To some people this is more than just fun time it’s fun time with a serious goal almost like a second job. If you were at a job and there were employees that could do more work but choose not to because they want to enjoy their time there more, or because they want to immerse themselves in XYZ or ABC. They would be replaced for those who optimize and do the most work possible.
This is where the Idea of that person being lazy comes from. If everyone in the group is fully optimized and dealing 100% of the damage they possibly can, but one player is only at 40% because they dont want to be at 100% for whatever reason, Some people see that as a spit in the face and a desire on the person to be carried. So, They upfront say “Full Berserkers only”
I have 3 sets of gear 1 for open-world farming(MF), 1 for dungeons/fractals(zerker) and 1 for WvW(PTV). For me, problem solved for all regions.
Mud Bone – Sylvari Ranger
gear choices that is none of your business to care about.
You really don’t seem to understand what group content is even about. It is in everyone’s interest to know what everyone is bringing. That’s what cooperative play is.
Sadly, the mindset you have is exactly why Anet can’t release more challenging content. It’s because of people like you, that refuse to work with their teammates and demand to do everything however the hell you want to without making an effort at teamwork.
Let’s see how far you get if you ever have to fight in a war and you feel everyone should just do whatever they want to.
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
The problem is that we have no business caring about whether people think we are lazy or not. Role-playing options are not being lazy. I can spend hours theory-crafting my character’s builds, accommodating pieces here and there that will be BOTH effective and in tune with character concept. How lazy is that vs just adopting the cookie-cutter meta, and just buy full DPS without thought? I dare you call me lazy for loving my characters and making it more about immersion than power-play.
I sincerely hope you are not one of those people who would think that’s lazy, because you would clearly be wrong. Not everyone who chooses anything other than the meta is actually lazy, “selfish”, or a “baddie”.
No I’m not but surely you can see why people feel that way?
To some people this is more than just fun time it’s fun time with a serious goal almost like a second job. If you were at a job and there were employees that could do more work but choose not to because they want to enjoy their time there more, or because they want to immerse themselves in XYZ or ABC. They would be replaced for those who optimize and do the most work possible.This is where the Idea of that person being lazy comes from. If everyone in the group is fully optimized and dealing 100% of the damage they possibly can, but one player is only at 40% because they dont want to be at 100% for whatever reason, Some people see that as a spit in the face and a desire on the person to be carried. So, They upfront say “Full Berserkers only”
It is not true, however, and it’s totally inappropriate to believe that all people live by the same rules. I would never join the second job GW2 speedruns myself. They have no business calling out others “lazy” or “selfish” because they don’t play their supposedly “100% effective” (also known as cookie-cutter) way.
And the difference is that ultimately, this is not a job, and we have no bosses, thus the bullying is wholly unwarranted. I get if someone gets annoyed at someone for joining a speedrun and they don’t meet the requirements. But outside of that, the arrogance and insults are wholly unwarranted and ill-placed (can you honestly tell me that we should all play GW2 as a second job, and that such a thing is even right for all players? And how is a “leet zerk” not necessarily lazy in real-life? Irrefutable proof?)
If you pug without “all berserker’s” up-front in your group ad, don’t get mad at someone for not using metas. Specify if you want cookie cutter, DPS builds, so that the “lazies/baddies” (stupid terms) won’t “selfishly slow you down.”
If you like being called out, your PvE Dungeon advice is ill-placed, good for many but not for all
If it’s good for many how is it ill-placed? Unless I’m missing something here.
But otherwise, I don’t see how it’s appropriate to insult others, especially their character (“selfishness”) for choosing whatever gear works for them ,even if you wouldn’t use it yourself, ever.
Still fixated on the word I see. And I don’t insult people, I insult gear, unless stating someone is a bad player is an insult. I’d call it offensive, but not insulting, but this is just semantics. I feel mentioning to someone in my party that their gear is bad can be good for them since it can show them how they can perform better. Mind you, I rarely ever do this, if I join a pug I know people are going to be running whatever gear they’re running and I’ll only bring up gear if we’ve repeatedly wiped or if we just had a boss fight and it took an eternity to go down.
Frankly, I would never insult you for choosing Berserker’s, because that’s your choice, and it works for you. It helps you clear things faster, which is what you prefer, and you barely get hit. For those reasons, however, I can’t understand why you cannot be equally gracious to others who don’t play your way.
I can’t be gracious because of the fact that people refuse to accept zerker is best in a gear discussion, and I’ve been smashing my head against this wall endlessly to the point that I don’t even care about politeness. I don’t even care if someone dislikes it, my RL friends dislike the DPS zerker meta, but they accept that DPS gear is the best gear, but the problem on this forum is that people don’t even acknowledge that it’s the best, and then start giving “play how you want” shtick as justification for using bad gear. Right, and I’m about to join a dungeon in full magic leech, be called out on it, be threatened with a kick and go PLAY HOW YOU WANT [even if to the the complete detriment of the party] because I don’t think it’s fair I’m not allowed to leech with junk gear.
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
gear choices that is none of your business to care about.
You really don’t seem to understand what group content is even about. It is in everyone’s interest to know what everyone is bringing. That’s what cooperative play is.
Sadly, the mindset you have is exactly why Anet can’t release more challenging content. It’s because of people like you, that refuse to work with their teammates and demand to do everything however the hell you want to without making an effort at teamwork.
Let’s see how far you get if you ever have to fight in a war and you feel everyone should just do whatever they want to.
A)This is not war, and I am not the soldier type (no offense). In this game, more than anything, the philosophy is that players have freedom in how they choose to play. Even if to some extent, the philosophy is not meeting real execution, at least their intention was more about freedom to be efficient in diverse ways, including DPS, but not strictly DPS.
B)You can still support your teammates. Not adopting the cookie-cutter DPS build doesn’t mean that the player is bad or won’t support the team effort. He will just have a way to do so that better suits his/her playstyle.
If you like being called out, your PvE Dungeon advice is ill-placed, good for many but not for all
If it’s good for many how is it ill-placed? Unless I’m missing something here.
But otherwise, I don’t see how it’s appropriate to insult others, especially their character (“selfishness”) for choosing whatever gear works for them ,even if you wouldn’t use it yourself, ever.
Still fixated on the word I see. And I don’t insult people, I insult gear, unless stating someone is a bad player is an insult. I’d call it offensive, but not insulting, but this is just semantics. I feel mentioning to someone in my party that their gear is bad can be good for them since it can show them how they can perform better. Mind you, I rarely ever do this, if I join a pug I know people are going to be running whatever gear they’re running and I’ll only bring up gear if we’ve repeatedly wiped or if we just had a boss fight and it took an eternity to go down.
Frankly, I would never insult you for choosing Berserker’s, because that’s your choice, and it works for you. It helps you clear things faster, which is what you prefer, and you barely get hit. For those reasons, however, I can’t understand why you cannot be equally gracious to others who don’t play your way.
I can’t be gracious because of the fact that people refuse to accept zerker is best in a gear discussion, and I’ve been smashing my head against this wall endlessly to the point that I don’t even care about politeness. I don’t even care if someone dislikes it, my RL friends dislike the DPS zerker meta, but they accept that DPS gear is the best gear, but the problem on this forum is that people don’t even acknowledge that it’s the best, and then start giving “play how you want” shtick as justification for using bad gear. Right, and I’m about to join a dungeon in full magic leech, be called out on it, be threatened with a kick and go PLAY HOW YOU WANT [even if to the the complete detriment of the party] because I don’t think it’s fair I’m not allowed to leech with junk gear.
Well, if you don’t play with these people, why does it harm you, and then why you care so much about them not using what you want? Do you think that you are the only one who thinks “zerk-way”? You will always find your players. There’s nothing wrong in saying “play how you want,” AT ALL, especially if it doesn’t affect your groups that only play zerk-way.
To be honest, it’s not worth you hammering your head on a wall. Just play go play zerk, and leave others alone. So simple, and no need for “selfish”/“terrible” epithets that only make you look horrible (I am sure you are probably a great person in real-life.)
(People “refuse” to accept Berserker’s as “best gear” because not everybody plays your way, and many don’t care for speed and consider other factors. Therefore, it’s best for you and many people, but not for everybody who is geared differently. Is that fair, and why they shouldn’t be allowed to play in other ways that aren’t meta? Just to appease speed-runners?)
It is not true, however, and it’s totally inappropriate to believe that all people live by the same rules. I would never join the second job GW2 speedruns myself. They have no business calling out others “lazy” or “selfish” because they don’t play their supposedly “100% effective” (also known as cookie-cutter) way.
And the difference is that ultimately, this is not a job, and we have no bosses, thus the bullying is wholly unwarranted. I get if someone gets annoyed at someone for joining a speedrun and they don’t meet the requirements. But outside of that, the arrogance and insults are wholly unwarranted and ill-placed (can you honestly tell me that we should all play GW2 as a second job, and that such a thing is even right for all players? And how is a “leet zerk” not necessarily lazy in real-life? Irrefutable proof?)
If you pug without “all berserker’s” up-front in your group ad, don’t get mad at someone for not using metas. Specify if you want cookie cutter, DPS builds, so that the “lazies/baddies” (stupid terms) won’t “selfishly slow you down.”
I honestly don’t care if my group is full berserker or not. Where I come in is simple berserker is the most optimal gear in the game. If someone doesn’t know it or understand it I will explain it to them and why. One because I feel that is just the right thing to do and two because I feel it’s a big problem with the game. The more people that know this fact and the more attention that is given to it the faster (I hope) the devs can address the real problem here and make it not so.
If someone tells me like you are. I know berserker is the most optimal, I just dont care to use it, or I cannot use it because of XYZ then I move on. For me it’s about informing people.
It is not true, however, and it’s totally inappropriate to believe that all people live by the same rules. I would never join the second job GW2 speedruns myself. They have no business calling out others “lazy” or “selfish” because they don’t play their supposedly “100% effective” (also known as cookie-cutter) way.
And the difference is that ultimately, this is not a job, and we have no bosses, thus the bullying is wholly unwarranted. I get if someone gets annoyed at someone for joining a speedrun and they don’t meet the requirements. But outside of that, the arrogance and insults are wholly unwarranted and ill-placed (can you honestly tell me that we should all play GW2 as a second job, and that such a thing is even right for all players? And how is a “leet zerk” not necessarily lazy in real-life? Irrefutable proof?)
If you pug without “all berserker’s” up-front in your group ad, don’t get mad at someone for not using metas. Specify if you want cookie cutter, DPS builds, so that the “lazies/baddies” (stupid terms) won’t “selfishly slow you down.”
I honestly don’t care if my group is full berserker or not. Where I come in is simple berserker is the most optimal gear in the game. If someone doesn’t know it or understand it I will explain it to them and why. One because I feel that is just the right thing to do and two because I feel it’s a big problem with the game. The more people that know this fact and the more attention that is given to it the faster (I hope) the devs can address the real problem here and make it not so.
If someone tells me like you are. I know berserker is the most optimal, I just dont care to use it, or I cannot use it because of XYZ then I move on. For me it’s about informing people.
I hope I didn’t offend you, as you seem open-minded, but yes, I do know why Berserker’s gear is effective, especially if you want to do things as fast as possible. It is, however, a player’s choice that shouldn’t be condemned either way, and I myself am not against the gear, but more against bad attitudes (“you suck because you don’t use Berserker’s and slow me down”) I know people who use Berserker’s and do speedruns, and are not jerks about it at all, and wish it was more common.
I do agree that I wish the game allowed the other options to be more evidently effective (IMO, they are effective now, but DPS currently overpowers content, so people go for the path of least resistance.) It’s a pity that CC and conditions are not as well-featured (though I can see why they implemented Defiant stacks: to counter too organized play in which the boss would be perma-knocked about around the room-even know it looks funny to be able to knock down a huge boss.)
As for conditions, they actually can achieve some sick damage even with the cap (especially roaming solo), it’s just that the way group caps and damage is determined is(no offense to developers) a bit flawed and limiting. It doesn’t help that low power, high condition builds totally suck against inanimate objects.
I still use these options on PvE, though, because they fit many of my builds and character concepts. Guess I am lazy and a baddie. :P I honestly don’t care, because I only do speedruns with friendly people, and most of the time don’t’ speedrun at all.
as far as i remember berserkers or not we all have only 2 free dodge rolls and 1 self heal. after that that are classes skills or utility that add some more dodges. plus armors are heavy, medium and light. so there are many things to consider when we talk “optimal” some classes will be more suited in berserkers gear than other when it comes to survivability.
on the other hand if we all would go to do events in full berserkers gear and maybe stats, most event would fail due to lack of heal boons from other classes, tankier players that can resist longer while ressing downed players etc etc.
so optimal is diversity.
also, i swear there are people that never used different build than berserkers and they don’t even know that not every mob in the game can one shot you!
Many Berserker builds are all defensive utilities, because offensive utilities often do not even come close to auto attack damage. So we have more than 1 heal at times, stun breakers and condition removers (It is standard to have one of each in a build actually) and thanks to vigor, and sigil of energy you can give yourself a lot more dodge opportunities than you are thinking. When it comes down to it in this game, no one else no matter their build can keep you alive better than you can yourself.
B)You can still support your teammates. Not adopting the cookie-cutter DPS build doesn’t mean that the player is bad or won’t support the team effort. He will just have a way to do so that better suits his/her playstyle.
But this is largely the point. The “support” that other builds provide is terrible or flat out disrupts the effectiveness of other builds.
One thing that immediately comes to mind is a wells using necromancer when I’m playing on a combo heavy class like an elementalist. Not only are you not providing good support yourself, you are actually preventing me from setting up proper combo fields and utilizing them in a way that actually benefits the party.
This isn’t a difference of one playstyle versus another, it’s a difference of good and bad.
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
It has nothing to do with rushing. I play with zerker gear because it’s better, but I still “sit back and enjoy it”.
There’s a large difference between people who want to “sit back and enjoy it”, and people who want to pick weak stats. I know, I know: people enjoy build diversity. So do I, especially as a big GW1 fan. But this game’s design does not treats all builds equally. So don’t blame the players for “rushing in”, blame the systems. It’s the systems and the mechanics in place that discriminate most non-zerker builds.
But the system isn’t flawed, the player’s logic is. I never run with zerker parties and I’ve done every dungeon just fine. Nothing in PvE requires zerker gear(or any other stat combo for that matter), the players do. I just hope that when they release the LFG tool that they make it as easy to see who I don’t want to play with as it is now.
Yes, it is possible to contribute nothing to a group, get carried, and still finish a dungeon. Not all of us want to play that way, however.
What about if you’re all rangers and none of you are zerker. Then how are you being carried?
This is where people take hours and hours on a single path (and then probably never finish) and then complain about contents being too hard
I can finish any content in the game, except maybe high level fractals, with five rangers. It can be done. It does, however, take longer.
There’s nothing wrong in saying “play how you want,” AT ALL
I’m sure you can’t see anything wrong with someone joining a dungeon group in full magic find gear. Even if the other four players are bads, they may at least be trying to use good gear (oh I need to be tanky, knights! etc.), or what they think is good gear, but if you use MF you’re making a conscious decision to contribute as little as possible to your dungeon group and improve your chance , and only your chance of good loot.
“Play how you want” can die in a fire for as long as it keeps being used as an excuse by bad players to use bad gear.
To be honest, it’s not worth you hammering your head on a wall. Just play go play zerk, and leave others alone. So simple, and no need for “selfish”/“terrible” epithets that only make you look horrible (I am sure you are probably a great person in real-life.)
It is selfish of me to want people to conform to my standards. It is selfish of other people to use gear that only helps themselves and not their party.
Why are you so fixated on the word?
You can not care for speed and still accept zerker as the best gear. Accepting it doesn’t mean you have to use it. I don’t understand what the deal is in accepting that there’s better or worse gear. People don’t go in to a fit and say exotics aren’t as good as rares because (insert moronic reason here), but when it comes to stat combinations they’re a lot more stubborn. Strange.
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
I actually realized it shortly after posting it, but didn’t bother changing it assuming that my point would ultimately get across anyhow.
My point ultimately was that I had no issue finding groups to go to Underworld with and I wasn’t doing SC and I see absolutely no indication of this taking over dungeons aside from the forums.
Perhaps you had a larger friends list than mine, and used fewer pugs for UW. I liked to PuG, for the sheer enjoyment of meeting new people. Before SCs it was easy to find pug groups (won’t say they were all good, but much easier to find). After….poof, gone.
As for the SCs of the GW2 dungeons…I saw a little bit here and there before. Now, its starting to crop more. On here, on gw2lfg . net/com, even in the map chat lfg calls. I’m starting to see it more and more, and its very disheartening. I can still find ‘regular’ groups for now…
I was never able to complete UW for the statue after Dhuum came out. by that time it was all SC’s, and they all wanted you to have 350+ gstones to join the group. You could know the build to use, even have practice at using it solo in UW, but it was never enough, unless you wanted to blow plat on Gstones to trick the groups.
You can not care for speed and still accept zerker as the best gear.
I accept that zerker does the most dps. That doesn’t make it the “best” gear.
Ok
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
There’s nothing wrong in saying “play how you want,” AT ALL
I’m sure you can’t see anything wrong with someone joining a dungeon group in full magic find gear. Even if the other four players are bads, they may at least be trying to use good gear (oh I need to be tanky, knights! etc.), or what they think is good gear, but if you use MF you’re making a conscious decision to contribute as little as possible to your dungeon group and improve your chance , and only your chance of good loot.
“Play how you want” can die in a fire for as long as it keeps being used as an excuse by bad players to use bad gear.
To be honest, it’s not worth you hammering your head on a wall. Just play go play zerk, and leave others alone. So simple, and no need for “selfish”/“terrible” epithets that only make you look horrible (I am sure you are probably a great person in real-life.)
It is selfish of me to want people to conform to my standards. It is selfish of other people to use gear that only helps themselves and not their party.
Why are you so fixated on the word?
You can not care for speed and still accept zerker as the best gear. Accepting it doesn’t mean you have to use it. I don’t understand what the deal is in accepting that there’s better or worse gear. People don’t go in to a fit and say exotics aren’t as good as rares because (insert moronic reason here), but when it comes to stat combinations they’re a lot more stubborn. Strange.
Except there’s is no “moronic reason” in freedom of choice. Insult ANet, not me or other players, if you don’t like gear choice freedom. It’s what they really want for the game, even if doesn’t seem obvious with the way DPS overpowers everything.
My “fit” is that is totally stupid to be a jerk to others about the gear they must use. And you haven’t answered, why do you care so much if you only play with elitists like yourself? Can’t rationalize the hate, because you don’t even meet people who don’t play like you do. Comes off more as “I am awesome because I use zerk! Everybody else is terrible/selfish for choosing inferior stats!” Even you know that not all Berserker’s players do the gear justice, as you have posted before. Therefore, it CAN’T be the one way to play, especially considering all sort of human being that play this game and may have different goals than you do. So, it’s OK to go full zerk, but IT’S NOT to find fault with everybody else who doesn’t.
It really just has to do with the way dungeons are. They have a very clear goal, kill the boss and claim the reward. It literally says so on the top of your screen. It shouldn’t be surprising that people expect others to prepare themselves to complete that objective to the best of their ability.
Choice is cool and all, but who in their right mind would choose to be less effective than you could? If you had to choose between a weapon that does more damage, or one that does less, why wouldn’t you choose to use the one that does more?
It’s just common sense.
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
Except there’s is no “moronic reason” in freedom of choice. Insult ANet, not me or other players, if you don’t like gear choice freedom. It’s what they really want for the game, even if doesn’t seem obvious with the way DPS overpowers everything.
There is gear choice freedom, just not in PVE. In the WvW guild I’m in, I run full zerk, we have healing power and PVT guards, we have necros with whatever condition gear is best and then …. everyone else. There’s a lot of variety, and apparently healing power is not so good, but on the whole these are all strong builds (I get away with zerk because I’m skirmishing on the sides, not bombing up close with our commander unless specifically told to). In PVE, all of the mobs are just giant punching bags that you just spam DPS at, there’s practically no skill involved in killing them, you just learn their routines, evade then dpsdpsdps (to be honest you only really need to evade the hard hitters, and that’s if you don’t have access to blinds).
why do you care so much if you only play with elitists like yourself? Can’t rationalize the hate, because you don’t even meet people who don’t play like you do.
When I’m not farming, I pug, so I do play with non-elitists. And it’s not even that why I care, it’s people purposely ignoring evidence which is right in front of them which is why I “care” so much. People are purposely choosing to make their dungeon runs more difficult and it’s irritating because they don’t understand where they’re going wrong.
Comes off more as “I am awesome because I use zerk! Everybody else is terrible/selfish for choosing inferior stats!”
Yes, I can count to two and dodge, I’m totally awesome. I can play dungeons over and over again and get to a point where I complete dungeons purely with muscle memory, I’m totally awesome. Considering how much I say how easy PVE is, I’m not sure what gives you the impression I think I’m some awesome player, I’d just consider myself decent.
I’ve already said why using non-zerker gear is selfish, too.
Even you know that not all Berserker’s players do the gear justice, as you have posted before. Therefore, it CAN’T be the one way to play,
No, not all zerkers can do the gear justice, therefore you learn how to use it. Besides, a full zerker guardian who drops is still better in my eyes than some healing power staff spamming guardian who never dies.
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
MF Gear was just wrong. Anet realized their mistake. Account-bound mf gear will be much better, as it’ll allow you to diversify your farming experience through several characters, while having them stronger than they would be with MF gear as well.
So, I’ll be able to get 200% MF on my account constant like I can on my ranger??? That’d be awesome… but I some how don’t think it is going to play out like that.
I expect there will be more MF consumables or they’ll buff the ones that already exist. Or they’ll give you a way to earn account-bound Magic Find bonuses.
Besides, turning your .01% chance into .03% isn’t that big of a deal to lose. It was the only stat available on gear that did precisely zero things to help gameplay. That’s bad design, whether you wanted it or not.
Designers don’t design around what you want. That’s just how it works.