Guild Wars 2

Hickeroar.9734:

I never have, and never will run MF gear. It’s stupid to me. Just as stupid as insisting that zerk gear is the only viable gear in PvE.

I don’t think a single person has said that in this thread. Or any of the berserker threads for that matter.

Lokki.1092:

Hickeroar.9734:

I never have, and never will run MF gear. It’s stupid to me. Just as stupid as insisting that zerk gear is the only viable gear in PvE.

I don’t think a single person has said that in this thread. Or any of the berserker threads for that matter.

Holy mother loving crap.

Have you even read this thread or any of the other threads? That’s what a couple guys have been spamming in them for days saying over and over and over.

viable =/= optimal

everything is viable

colesy.8490:

viable =/= optimal

everything is viable

And here we are again. Optimal is HIGHLY relative, and changes on a player to player basis. Your all-caps gw2lfg groups can ask for whatever super leetz0r setups you demand. The majority of people in this game can show that zerker is simply not viable for THEM as a player. And that’s real viability.

Your demand that players farm content over and over to become “leet” enough to do it on zerker goes counter to why MOST people even play this game. The vast majority of players can not, do not, will not, and never will have a desire to play the game that way. Zerker gear, for many players Is. Not. Viable. I’m flabbergasted how you feel you speak for all players and all player’s desires and goals in this game.

Your claim runs exactly counter to that FACT. Thus you believe zerker is the only viable PvE gear. You wanna backtrack on your previous statements now, go ahead. I happened to read them though, and I know where you actually stand.

Hickeroar.9734:

And here we are again. Optimal is HIGHLY relative, and changes on a player to player basis. Your all-caps gw2lfg groups can ask for whatever super leetz0r setups you demand. The majority of people in this game can show that zerker is simply not viable for THEM as a player. And that’s real viability.

Your demand that players farm content over and over to become “leet” enough to do it on zerker goes counter to why MOST people even play this game. The vast majority of players can not, do not, will not, and never will have a desire to play the game that way. Zerker gear, for many players Is. Not. Viable. I’m flabbergasted how you feel you speak for all players and all player’s desires and goals in this game.

Your claim runs exactly counter to that FACT. Thus you believe zerker is the only viable PvE gear. You wanna backtrack on your previous statements now, go ahead. I happened to read them though, and I know where you actually stand.

Um…

viable =/= optimal

everything is viable

If you do not understand that concept then you are missing the whole point.

The majority of people in this game can show that zerker is simply not viable for THEM as a player. And that’s real viability.

and how is it not viable for them?

Your demand that players farm content over and over to become “leet” enough to do it on zerker goes counter to why MOST people even play this game. The vast majority of players can not, do not, will not, and never will have a desire to play the game that way.

lol, I don’t demand they farm content over and over again at all. all I say is zerker is the best gear to use, and if you’re not very good with it then it’s good to learn to.

Zerker gear, for many players Is. Not. Viable.

so you’re saying many players are so bad that they can’t learn to dodge?

I’d like to pin it down to laziness … but if they’re bad then I guess that works too

Your claim runs exactly counter to that FACT. Thus you believe zerker is the only viable PvE gear. You wanna backtrack on your previous statements now, go ahead. I happened to read them though, and I know where you actually stand.

What

Lokki.1092:

Hickeroar.9734:

And here we are again. Optimal is HIGHLY relative, and changes on a player to player basis. Your all-caps gw2lfg groups can ask for whatever super leetz0r setups you demand. The majority of people in this game can show that zerker is simply not viable for THEM as a player. And that’s real viability.

Your demand that players farm content over and over to become “leet” enough to do it on zerker goes counter to why MOST people even play this game. The vast majority of players can not, do not, will not, and never will have a desire to play the game that way. Zerker gear, for many players Is. Not. Viable. I’m flabbergasted how you feel you speak for all players and all player’s desires and goals in this game.

Your claim runs exactly counter to that FACT. Thus you believe zerker is the only viable PvE gear. You wanna backtrack on your previous statements now, go ahead. I happened to read them though, and I know where you actually stand.

Um…

viable =/= optimal

everything is viable

If you do not understand that concept then you are missing the whole point.

You are apparently the one who missed the point. He’s implying that anything other than zerker is non-viable, then backtracking with the statement from him that you quoted.

He can sell his “viable” claims as “optimal” all he wants, but what he has been saying in multiple threads all over the forums is in high disagreement with that little statement he just made.

colesy.8490:

The majority of people in this game can show that zerker is simply not viable for THEM as a player. And that’s real viability.

and how is it not viable for them?

Your demand that players farm content over and over to become “leet” enough to do it on zerker goes counter to why MOST people even play this game. The vast majority of players can not, do not, will not, and never will have a desire to play the game that way.

lol, I don’t demand they farm content over and over again at all. all I say is zerker is the best gear to use, and if you’re not very good with it then it’s good to learn to.

Zerker gear, for many players Is. Not. Viable.

so you’re saying many players are so bad that they can’t learn to dodge?

I’d like to pin it down to laziness … but if they’re bad then I guess that works too

Your claim runs exactly counter to that FACT. Thus you believe zerker is the only viable PvE gear. You wanna backtrack on your previous statements now, go ahead. I happened to read them though, and I know where you actually stand.

What

It’s not viable because they die.

You also expect that players want-to/can invest the time to become good enough in zerker. Some players have completely different goals and desires than you do in this game. They don’t want to change how they play because they like it better than the way you play. How many times am I going to have to repeat that? Zerker is non-viable for them.

Some players lack gaming talent and no amount of “training” is going to get them to be able to run dungeons in full zerker. Zerker is non-viable for them.

And yes, I’m saying that some players simply can’t learn to dodge at all the exact right times and avoid all damage. They simply….can’t. This is not complicated. Seriously… It’s not laziness. It’s lack of ability and talent. You don’t criticize a highschool baseball player for not having the ability and talent to get to the major leagues, yet you think that’s ok here?

You’re being pretentious and ignorant.

gear being bad doesn’t mean it isn’t viable

everything is viable because gw2 is easy

zerker is optimal because it powers through content faster than anything else

colesy.8490:

gear being bad doesn’t mean it isn’t viable

everything is viable because gw2 is easy

zerker is optimal because it powers through content faster than anything else

Interesting change of tune you’re having suddenly. I’ve been saying this crap for two days now…and you finally get it?

As I’ve said several times already:
A) I have 3 toons in full zerker. I can play them and stay alive.
B) Not everyone can, and that’s why they don’t run it. It’s a lot worse to have someone in full zerker who dies, than having them in Knights or something else and living. At that point, zerker is NON-VIABLE for them, and something else is actually more OPTIMAL for THAT player in THAT situation.
C) Do as much damage as you can and stay alive. Damage is your #2 priority after survival. You can not argue this. If you’re dead, you do no damage at all. If you can survive and wear the best damage gear….do it. That’s what it was MADE for.

It’s not viable because they die.

so they die once and then just go lolnope guess it’s too hard? is there no such thing as practice?

You also expect that players want-to/can invest the time to become good enough in zerker.

it’s not rocket science it just requires you to actually learn the game encounters rather than wanting to wail way and facetank hits. Take cof p1 for example, before I ran it in a proper group, I didn’t know the effigy’s skills at all. when I ran it in a glass group, I learnt it had a burning attack, a pbaoe-esque projectile knockback and it had another knockback and I learnt the cues for it. it took me like … one run to learn that.

Some players lack gaming talent and no amount of “training” is going to get them to be able to run dungeons in full zerker. Zerker is non-viable for them.

I seriously doubt anyone lacks the talent to run zerker in dungeons. It’s choosing not to or unwillingness to learn. Yes, you’ll die because you’re not used to it but you get the hang of it quickly when you know how much damage you can take.

And yes, I’m saying that some players simply can’t learn to dodge at all the exact right times and avoid all damage. They simply….can’t. This is not complicated. Seriously… It’s not laziness. It’s lack of ability and talent. You don’t criticize a highschool baseball player for not having the ability and talent to get to the major leagues, yet you think that’s ok here?

Actually they can unless they have a physical impediment or lag.

colesy.8490:

It’s not viable because they die.

so they die once and then just go lolnope guess it’s too hard? is there no such thing as practice?

You also expect that players want-to/can invest the time to become good enough in zerker.

it’s not rocket science it just requires you to actually learn the game encounters rather than wanting to wail way and facetank hits. Take cof p1 for example, before I ran it in a proper group, I didn’t know the effigy’s skills at all. when I ran it in a glass group, I learnt it had a burning attack, a pbaoe-esque projectile knockback and it had another knockback and I learnt the cues for it. it took me like … one run to learn that.

Some players lack gaming talent and no amount of “training” is going to get them to be able to run dungeons in full zerker. Zerker is non-viable for them.

I seriously doubt anyone lacks the talent to run zerker in dungeons. It’s choosing not to or unwillingness to learn. Yes, you’ll die because you’re not used to it but you get the hang of it quickly when you know how much damage you can take.

And yes, I’m saying that some players simply can’t learn to dodge at all the exact right times and avoid all damage. They simply….can’t. This is not complicated. Seriously… It’s not laziness. It’s lack of ability and talent. You don’t criticize a highschool baseball player for not having the ability and talent to get to the major leagues, yet you think that’s ok here?

Actually they can unless they have a physical impediment or lag.

You need to get out of your little isolated group of players and see how most people play this game. I wouldn’t want 90% of the people I play with running in full zerker. The 10% who can….I’m happy to support in that decision.

The fact that you think every player has some innate ability to go “hard mode” is just baffling. What’s easy for you is absolutely daunting for other players. Go find your grandma, teach her GW2, and get her running dungeons in zerker gear. Good luck with that.

Actually they can unless they have a physical impediment or lag.

No, actually, they can’t. Why do you think winners win? Because they’re the best. Why to you think losers lose? Because they’re not as good. Some people CAN NOT do what you can do.

You are a seriously deluded indivudual.

CrossedHorse.4261:

lilstev.3498:

CrossedHorse.4261:

I have a genuine question for zerkers to answer – and I ask this out of interest and because I’m not good with numbers!

So, obviously the DPS you can build into a Warrior is much higher with the DPS you can build into, say, a Necromancer, right? So, even in full zerker gear, the Necro is going to be doing significantly less damage than the Warrior. I think (and please correct me if I’m wrong) that we can agree that is a fact.

Ok, so the Necro has a ton of conditions they can stack, but once you get to a point, adding any more becomes pointless as the stack is full, and you really need to rely on DPS to get the boss to finally quit.

So … what happens if the amount of hurt this boss can dish out just outlasts everything the Necro can throw at it? I mean, maybe the Warrior could get this guy down because his limit of DPS is so high, but the Necro doesn’t have anything like that. So the Necro is left glassy as all heck, but still pretty limited in its DPS.

Is it still better for the Necro to spec for DPS in this case? Or would the party actually be better off if the Necro specced for survivability and brought skills along that could support, like well of corruption etc?

Just as a quick note – please don’t use “anyone who plays Necro is stupid” as an argument. I’m talking hypothetically about the use of zerker gear and trying to establish whether it genuinely is the optimal gear for every class, and I’m doing it because it’s genuinely an interesting debate when people are willing to be reasonable rather than rude.

Questions right my alley homie

My first char, near and dear to my heart, my Necro!

Okay so Condi or Power?

imo

After playing all the builds and gear setups, Power all the way!

Why?

Because of the boss buffs Defiant, unshakable, condition caps, conditions overridden by other players, effectiveness % cut by bosses, etc.

If it wasn’t for these nuisances, condi Necro would be king in PvE and dungeons but its not…..

Is a Zerk Necro as powerful as a War? Of course not, but you bring a very neat trick that Wars can’t. Death shroud

Death shroud is great for dmg of course, but amazing at saving your skin when your gettn rdy to get pummeled….

Necro’s weakness: no support whatsoever, especially of your running power.

Bottom line: Necro’s good fun, but not the most optimal class for dungeon running, but if your running Necro, you gotta roll power with Zerk gear….

Thanks for the answer! That makes sense (I main a Necro too and despite all the limitations I can’t help but love her).

Just out of further curiosity, if it weren’t for the lack of support options for the Necro, how does the Necro’s DPS compare with other professions (excluding say, the Warrior, as naturally we know that’s the king of DPS)? I have a char in each, but their levels are so varied and naturally I get better at the game each new char I roll, so I can’t really tell since I don’t have all chars to 80 yet. What I guess I’m trying to ask here, is does the Necro have viable DPS, outside of using death shroud?

Necro is one of the lowest DPS in the game. They can spec for DPS… but that mostly comes through conditions, which aren’t useful in groups. Necros bread and butter, and what’s separates them from other caster classes is their defense… and like people have continually brought up in this thread, you win in PvE with offense, not defense.

Zeppelin.6832:

CrossedHorse.4261:

lilstev.3498:

CrossedHorse.4261:

I have a genuine question for zerkers to answer – and I ask this out of interest and because I’m not good with numbers!

So, obviously the DPS you can build into a Warrior is much higher with the DPS you can build into, say, a Necromancer, right? So, even in full zerker gear, the Necro is going to be doing significantly less damage than the Warrior. I think (and please correct me if I’m wrong) that we can agree that is a fact.

Ok, so the Necro has a ton of conditions they can stack, but once you get to a point, adding any more becomes pointless as the stack is full, and you really need to rely on DPS to get the boss to finally quit.

So … what happens if the amount of hurt this boss can dish out just outlasts everything the Necro can throw at it? I mean, maybe the Warrior could get this guy down because his limit of DPS is so high, but the Necro doesn’t have anything like that. So the Necro is left glassy as all heck, but still pretty limited in its DPS.

Is it still better for the Necro to spec for DPS in this case? Or would the party actually be better off if the Necro specced for survivability and brought skills along that could support, like well of corruption etc?

Just as a quick note – please don’t use “anyone who plays Necro is stupid” as an argument. I’m talking hypothetically about the use of zerker gear and trying to establish whether it genuinely is the optimal gear for every class, and I’m doing it because it’s genuinely an interesting debate when people are willing to be reasonable rather than rude.

Questions right my alley homie

My first char, near and dear to my heart, my Necro!

Okay so Condi or Power?

imo

After playing all the builds and gear setups, Power all the way!

Why?

Because of the boss buffs Defiant, unshakable, condition caps, conditions overridden by other players, effectiveness % cut by bosses, etc.

If it wasn’t for these nuisances, condi Necro would be king in PvE and dungeons but its not…..

Is a Zerk Necro as powerful as a War? Of course not, but you bring a very neat trick that Wars can’t. Death shroud

Death shroud is great for dmg of course, but amazing at saving your skin when your gettn rdy to get pummeled….

Necro’s weakness: no support whatsoever, especially of your running power.

Bottom line: Necro’s good fun, but not the most optimal class for dungeon running, but if your running Necro, you gotta roll power with Zerk gear….

Thanks for the answer! That makes sense (I main a Necro too and despite all the limitations I can’t help but love her).

Just out of further curiosity, if it weren’t for the lack of support options for the Necro, how does the Necro’s DPS compare with other professions (excluding say, the Warrior, as naturally we know that’s the king of DPS)? I have a char in each, but their levels are so varied and naturally I get better at the game each new char I roll, so I can’t really tell since I don’t have all chars to 80 yet. What I guess I’m trying to ask here, is does the Necro have viable DPS, outside of using death shroud?

Necro is one of the lowest DPS in the game. They can spec for DPS… but that mostly comes through conditions, which aren’t useful in groups. Necros bread and butter, and what’s separates them from other caster classes is their defense… and like people have continually brought up in this thread, you win in PvE with offense, not defense.

They can also set up lots of debuffs on characters which set them up for even more massive damage to be dealt by other players. Immobilize, vulnerability, etc.

Also, if the game isn’t about defense, try running the grawl fractal at lvl 48 without a guardian. Possible? Certainly. 100x as hard? Definitely.

Hickeroar.9734:

colesy.8490:

gear being bad doesn’t mean it isn’t viable

everything is viable because gw2 is easy

zerker is optimal because it powers through content faster than anything else

Interesting change of tune you’re having suddenly. I’ve been saying this crap for two days now…and you finally get it?

As I’ve said several times already:
A) I have 3 toons in full zerker. I can play them and stay alive.
B) Not everyone can, and that’s why they don’t run it. It’s a lot worse to have someone in full zerker who dies, than having them in Knights or something else and living. At that point, zerker is NON-VIABLE for them, and something else is actually more OPTIMAL for THAT player in THAT situation.
C) Do as much damage as you can and stay alive. Damage is your #2 priority after survival. You can not argue this. If you’re dead, you do no damage at all. If you can survive and wear the best damage gear….do it. That’s what it was MADE for.

What you seem to be forgetting is that zerker gear survival is really only difficult and a problem when you’re the only one in the group doing damage. If you’re running and entire group of people in zerker gear, it’s much easier because other people are gasp also doing a lot of damage.

You need to get out of your little isolated group of players and see how most people play this game. I wouldn’t want 90% of the people I play with running in full zerker.

And those 90% of people are lazy and if they tried could quite easily use zerker.

The fact that you think every player has some innate ability to go “hard mode” is just baffling. What’s easy for you is absolutely daunting for other players. Go find your grandma, teach her GW2, and get her running dungeons in zerker gear. Good luck with that.

Not like my grandparents have arthritis or anything. You know, a physical impediment.

No, actually, they can’t. Why do you think winners win? Because they’re the best. Why to you think losers lose? Because they’re not as good. Some people CAN NOT do what you can do.

Winners win because they strive to be the best. If this 90% of people who can’t use zerkers are the “losers” then it’s because they’re not striving to be the best, not because they can’t do it.

You are a seriously deluded indivudual.

I love this, I get shredded out for calling out people for being bad players (you know, a fact, not an insult), and yet everyone else can call me every name under the sun and nobody bats an eyelid despite me not insulting them. Oh well, I’m not going to QQ about it.

Zeppelin.6832:

Hickeroar.9734:

colesy.8490:

gear being bad doesn’t mean it isn’t viable

everything is viable because gw2 is easy

zerker is optimal because it powers through content faster than anything else

Interesting change of tune you’re having suddenly. I’ve been saying this crap for two days now…and you finally get it?

As I’ve said several times already:
A) I have 3 toons in full zerker. I can play them and stay alive.
B) Not everyone can, and that’s why they don’t run it. It’s a lot worse to have someone in full zerker who dies, than having them in Knights or something else and living. At that point, zerker is NON-VIABLE for them, and something else is actually more OPTIMAL for THAT player in THAT situation.
C) Do as much damage as you can and stay alive. Damage is your #2 priority after survival. You can not argue this. If you’re dead, you do no damage at all. If you can survive and wear the best damage gear….do it. That’s what it was MADE for.

What you seem to be forgetting is that zerker gear survival is really only difficult and a problem when you’re the only one in the group doing damage. If you’re running and entire group of people in zerker gear, it’s much easier because other people are gasp also doing a lot of damage.

Until that one big hit lays a player flat out dead. Yeah, you personally would dodge it, but that doesn’t mean everyone would have the proper timing, state of mind, understanding to do it. Maybe YOUR GROUP does. The vast majority of groups don’t.

AGAIN (AND TRY READING THIS TIME TIME): Most players have entirely different goals that YOU do. Most players cannot handle full zerker, and they have no desire, talent, or ability to get to a place where they COULD.

Somehow you’ve got it in your head that everyone plays (or can play) at your level. You’re deluded, as I’ve said. 100% wrong.

colesy.8490:

You need to get out of your little isolated group of players and see how most people play this game. I wouldn’t want 90% of the people I play with running in full zerker.

And those 90% of people are lazy and if they tried could quite easily use zerker.

The fact that you think every player has some innate ability to go “hard mode” is just baffling. What’s easy for you is absolutely daunting for other players. Go find your grandma, teach her GW2, and get her running dungeons in zerker gear. Good luck with that.

Not like my grandparents have arthritis or anything. You know, a physical impediment.

No, actually, they can’t. Why do you think winners win? Because they’re the best. Why to you think losers lose? Because they’re not as good. Some people CAN NOT do what you can do.

Winners win because they strive to be the best. If this 90% of people who can’t use zerkers are the “losers” then it’s because they’re not striving to be the best, not because they can’t do it.

You are a seriously deluded indivudual.

I love this, I get shredded out for calling out people for being bad players (you know, a fact, not an insult), and yet everyone else can call me every name under the sun and nobody bats an eyelid despite me not insulting them. Oh well, I’m not going to QQ about it.

They’re not lazy, they’re unable. Comprehension. Try it.

You obviously completely missed the point about the grandparents. Here: “Find a random someone’s grandma without any notable physical impediments and…”

You are SO off base, thinking that losers are only losers because they aren’t trying hard enough. That’s one of the most idiotic things I’ve ever seen someone say.

I said you’re deluded because you are categorically deluded. You’re living in a fantasy world here. What you’re saying has no basis in reality. None. You ARE deluded. People with delusions don’t know they’re delusions.

They’re not lazy, they’re unable. Comprehension. Try it.

Unable to motivate themselves to practice with it, gotcha.

You obviously completely missed the point about the grandparents. Here: “Find a random someone’s grandma without any notable physical impediments and…”

Not like people get slower in their advanced age or anything. Though I’m sure if a grandma was a gamer, didn’t have health problems and was willing to make the effort to use zerker, they quite easily could. Most of the time you’re just autoattacking with the occasional burst skill and evade, like I said it’s not rocket science.

You are SO off base, thinking that losers are only losers because they aren’t trying hard enough. That’s one of the most idiotic things I’ve ever seen someone say.

In this game, it’s true. Try hard enough and you can do anything in this game. I’d love to be a stronger pvp player but I don’t try hard enough so I’m sitting there in mediocrity.

I said you’re deluded because you are categorically deluded. You’re living in a fantasy world here. What you’re saying has no basis in reality. None. You ARE deluded. People with delusions don’t know they’re delusions.

Go on, cuss me. Insult me.

I won’t even report you, you’re obviously mad and frustrated.

Hickeroar.9734:

You are apparently the one who missed the point. He’s implying that anything other than zerker is non-viable, then backtracking with the statement from him that you quoted.

He can sell his “viable” claims as “optimal” all he wants, but what he has been saying in multiple threads all over the forums is in high disagreement with that little statement he just made.

Read more. I see where you are coming from.

colesy.8490:

They’re not lazy, they’re unable. Comprehension. Try it.

Unable to motivate themselves to practice with it, gotcha.

You obviously completely missed the point about the grandparents. Here: “Find a random someone’s grandma without any notable physical impediments and…”

Not like people get slower in their advanced age or anything. Though I’m sure if a grandma was a gamer, didn’t have health problems and was willing to make the effort to use zerker, they quite easily could. Most of the time you’re just autoattacking with the occasional burst skill and evade, like I said it’s not rocket science.

You are SO off base, thinking that losers are only losers because they aren’t trying hard enough. That’s one of the most idiotic things I’ve ever seen someone say.

In this game, it’s true. Try hard enough and you can do anything in this game. I’d love to be a stronger pvp player but I don’t try hard enough so I’m sitting there in mediocrity.

I said you’re deluded because you are categorically deluded. You’re living in a fantasy world here. What you’re saying has no basis in reality. None. You ARE deluded. People with delusions don’t know they’re delusions.

Go on, cuss me. Insult me.

I won’t even report you, you’re obviously mad and frustrated.

As I said. Deluded.

Not an insult, just a fact.

You can do better than that.

Also, I want to see these quotes you dug up of me saying things different to what I am now.

It’s most likely I was trying to say the same thing I am now but used the wrong words.

colesy.8490:

The majority of people in this game can show that zerker is simply not viable for THEM as a player. And that’s real viability.

and how is it not viable for them?

Your demand that players farm content over and over to become “leet” enough to do it on zerker goes counter to why MOST people even play this game. The vast majority of players can not, do not, will not, and never will have a desire to play the game that way.

lol, I don’t demand they farm content over and over again at all. all I say is zerker is the best gear to use, and if you’re not very good with it then it’s good to learn to.

Zerker gear, for many players Is. Not. Viable.

so you’re saying many players are so bad that they can’t learn to dodge?

I’d like to pin it down to laziness … but if they’re bad then I guess that works too

Your claim runs exactly counter to that FACT. Thus you believe zerker is the only viable PvE gear. You wanna backtrack on your previous statements now, go ahead. I happened to read them though, and I know where you actually stand.

What

I hate it when it’s implied that using defensive stats means you can’t dodge. :P It honestly isn’t logical at all. Defensive stats aren’t there to “carry you” should you “be a baddie” or “not want to dodge”, because even the highest toughness will be punished if you refuse to dodge or learn evasive maneuvers-it’s part of the game mechanics, and no maximum healing power/toughness will help you if you don’t know how to dodge. the reason people use those are for safety/survival, sure, but they still have to dodge the many one/two-shotters (wasting dodges on lesser attacks can be dangerous, even on perma-vigor builds). So, it’s not logical at all, and you should refuse to use that insulting argument for your own sake (“I know how to dodge, you don’t in your Soldier’s junk! hahaha! I am so hot!” yep, makes you look bad, though you don’t seem to care, which is fine.)

There are multitude of valid reasons to prefer Berserker’s but one of them isn’t that if you don’t use it, you don’t know how to dodge (or make me a youtube video as proof that ALL non-zerk players don’t know how to dodge as “evidence”. :P Yet another irrational thing you are asking of people in here. what if they know how to play but refuse to use the gear for whatever reasons? Remember not everybody treats GW2 as a speedrun?)

I am happy you never get hit in game (unlike you, I won’t ask you for “youtube evidence”), but I agree that in your case, it’s better that you play with zerks only, because as you said, it’s actually better for you as you won’t usually even have to dodge that much. But under normal circumstances, most players will be hit every once in a while, no matter how “leet” they are-and that’s OK too.

colesy.8490:

You can do better than that.

Also, I want to see these quotes you dug up of me saying things different to what I am now.

It’s most likely I was trying to say the same thing I am now but used the wrong words.

I don’t need to do better than that. I’ve proven you wrong a dozen times over here, and you’re just refusing to read/comprehend it.

Also, if you wanna see the quote, you’ve got half of five pages of them here in this thread. Go for it.

To be honest, if you really believe that using non-zerk gear is selfish, yo uare saying it’s not viable for many, because many of us hate to be called selfish when we aren’t. So, even if it’s meant “optimal”, by claiming it’s “selfish” you are basically saying it’s the only way to play, because many of us don’t like to be selfish-and we don’t agree that it makes us selfish to use whatever gear at all, so the belief isn’t even rational.

I hate it when it’s implied that using defensive stats means you can’t dodge. :P It honestly isn’t logical at all. Defensive stats aren’t there to “carry you” should you “be a baddie” or “not want to dodge”, because even the highest toughness will be punished if you refuse to dodge or learn evasive maneuvers-it’s part of the game mechanics, and no maximum healing power/toughness will help you if you don’t know how to dodge. the reason people use those are for safety/survival, sure, but they still have to dodge the many one/two-shotters (wasting dodges on lesser attacks can be dangerous, even on perma-vigor builds). So, it’s not logical at all, and you should refuse to use that insulting argument for your own sake (“I know how to dodge, you don’t in your Soldier’s junk! hahaha! I am so hot!” yep, makes you look bad, though you don’t seem to care, which is fine.)

You’ve just said that even the high toughness builds can be punished by not dodging. Therefore, if you gain little from stacking toughness, why not run zerker? And if these soldier gear users can dodge, why do they even need soldier gear?

There are multitude of valid reasons to prefer Berserker’s but one of them isn’t that if you don’t use it, you don’t know how to dodge (or make me a youtube video as proof that ALL non-zerk players don’t know how to dodge as “evidence”. :P Yet another irrational thing you are asking of people in here. what if they know how to play but refuse to use the gear for whatever reasons? Remember not everybody treats GW2 as a speedrun?)

If you don’t use zerker because you find it too glassy, you’re basically admitting you don’t know how to dodge. And yes, i know everyone doesn’t treat GW2 as a speed run, I don’t know why people keep thinking that zerkers only run it for farming, I run berserker in pvp, wvw and even open world since I salvaged my mf gear ages ago since I hated how useless it felt (combat-wise that is, the mf boost was actually useful).

I don’t need to do better than that. I’ve proven you wrong a dozen times over here, and you’re just refusing to read/comprehend it.

Also, if you wanna see the quote, you’ve got half of five pages of them here in this thread. Go for it.

I read my posts from all five pages and found nothing. If you’re too lazy to point out the quote I’ll just assume you’re wrong.

To be honest, if you really believe that using non-zerk gear is selfish, yo uare saying it’s not viable for many, because many of us hate to be called selfish when we aren’t. So, even if it’s meant “optimal”, by claiming it’s “selfish” you are basically saying it’s the only way to play, because many of us don’t like to be selfish-and we don’t agree that it makes us selfish to use whatever gear at all, so the belief isn’t even rational.

What

Mesket.5728:

stof.9341:

You do understand that the LFG announces that are THAT strict for gear usually tend to be CoF farming runs that intent to do like 1h or 2h straight dungeon farming, not a single run right?

That or they look for DPS players for Arah path 4.

I’m at work atm, can’t check; but last time it wasn’t only for COF. It is a stupid trend getting more attached to kids heads nowadays.

BTW; I did Arah 4 a few times (got my dungeon master last year and Im not a zerk warrior) and the smoothest runs are always with balanced teams. All Zerks tend to fail/skip/pull few mobs quite often. I preffer to pull ten mobs and not fail instead of watching my steps inside, that demands lot of time as well. Though I admit that Simin fight last year was ridiculous. I don’t know how it is today but it did need tonz of damage to get through.

Just got on gw2lfg.com. Read over the entire list. There was precisely one group asking for Zerkers and it was for a CoF farming group. (Why are they farming it still? There’s no gold!)

Everyone else is asking either for level 80 characters or just experienced players.

colesy.8490:

I hate it when it’s implied that using defensive stats means you can’t dodge. :P It honestly isn’t logical at all. Defensive stats aren’t there to “carry you” should you “be a baddie” or “not want to dodge”, because even the highest toughness will be punished if you refuse to dodge or learn evasive maneuvers-it’s part of the game mechanics, and no maximum healing power/toughness will help you if you don’t know how to dodge. the reason people use those are for safety/survival, sure, but they still have to dodge the many one/two-shotters (wasting dodges on lesser attacks can be dangerous, even on perma-vigor builds). So, it’s not logical at all, and you should refuse to use that insulting argument for your own sake (“I know how to dodge, you don’t in your Soldier’s junk! hahaha! I am so hot!” yep, makes you look bad, though you don’t seem to care, which is fine.)

You’ve just said that even the high toughness builds can be punished by not dodging. Therefore, if you gain little from stacking toughness, why not run zerker? And if these soldier gear users can dodge, why do they even need soldier gear?

There are multitude of valid reasons to prefer Berserker’s but one of them isn’t that if you don’t use it, you don’t know how to dodge (or make me a youtube video as proof that ALL non-zerk players don’t know how to dodge as “evidence”. :P Yet another irrational thing you are asking of people in here. what if they know how to play but refuse to use the gear for whatever reasons? Remember not everybody treats GW2 as a speedrun?)

If you don’t use zerker because you find it too glassy, you’re basically admitting you don’t know how to dodge. And yes, i know everyone doesn’t treat GW2 as a speed run, I don’t know why people keep thinking that zerkers only run it for farming, I run berserker in pvp, wvw and even open world since I salvaged my mf gear ages ago since I hated how useless it felt (combat-wise that is, the mf boost was actually useful).

I don’t need to do better than that. I’ve proven you wrong a dozen times over here, and you’re just refusing to read/comprehend it.

Also, if you wanna see the quote, you’ve got half of five pages of them here in this thread. Go for it.

I read my posts from all five pages and found nothing. If you’re too lazy to point out the quote I’ll just assume you’re wrong.

To be honest, if you really believe that using non-zerk gear is selfish, yo uare saying it’s not viable for many, because many of us hate to be called selfish when we aren’t. So, even if it’s meant “optimal”, by claiming it’s “selfish” you are basically saying it’s the only way to play, because many of us don’t like to be selfish-and we don’t agree that it makes us selfish to use whatever gear at all, so the belief isn’t even rational.

What

Hickeroar.9734:

colesy.8490:

You can do better than that.

Also, I want to see these quotes you dug up of me saying things different to what I am now.

It’s most likely I was trying to say the same thing I am now but used the wrong words.

I don’t need to do better than that. I’ve proven you wrong a dozen times over here, and you’re just refusing to read/comprehend it.

Also, if you wanna see the quote, you’ve got half of five pages of them here in this thread. Go for it.

Yeah… I’m not seeing what you’re talking about here, guy. You just kinda called him deluded and stuff… is that how you prove someone wrong?

Star Ace.5207:

colesy.8490:

I hate it when it’s implied that using defensive stats means you can’t dodge. :P It honestly isn’t logical at all. Defensive stats aren’t there to “carry you” should you “be a baddie” or “not want to dodge”, because even the highest toughness will be punished if you refuse to dodge or learn evasive maneuvers-it’s part of the game mechanics, and no maximum healing power/toughness will help you if you don’t know how to dodge. the reason people use those are for safety/survival, sure, but they still have to dodge the many one/two-shotters (wasting dodges on lesser attacks can be dangerous, even on perma-vigor builds). So, it’s not logical at all, and you should refuse to use that insulting argument for your own sake (“I know how to dodge, you don’t in your Soldier’s junk! hahaha! I am so hot!” yep, makes you look bad, though you don’t seem to care, which is fine.)

You’ve just said that even the high toughness builds can be punished by not dodging. Therefore, if you gain little from stacking toughness, why not run zerker? And if these soldier gear users can dodge, why do they even need soldier gear?

There are multitude of valid reasons to prefer Berserker’s but one of them isn’t that if you don’t use it, you don’t know how to dodge (or make me a youtube video as proof that ALL non-zerk players don’t know how to dodge as “evidence”. :P Yet another irrational thing you are asking of people in here. what if they know how to play but refuse to use the gear for whatever reasons? Remember not everybody treats GW2 as a speedrun?)

If you don’t use zerker because you find it too glassy, you’re basically admitting you don’t know how to dodge. And yes, i know everyone doesn’t treat GW2 as a speed run, I don’t know why people keep thinking that zerkers only run it for farming, I run berserker in pvp, wvw and even open world since I salvaged my mf gear ages ago since I hated how useless it felt (combat-wise that is, the mf boost was actually useful).

I don’t need to do better than that. I’ve proven you wrong a dozen times over here, and you’re just refusing to read/comprehend it.

Also, if you wanna see the quote, you’ve got half of five pages of them here in this thread. Go for it.

I read my posts from all five pages and found nothing. If you’re too lazy to point out the quote I’ll just assume you’re wrong.

To be honest, if you really believe that using non-zerk gear is selfish, yo uare saying it’s not viable for many, because many of us hate to be called selfish when we aren’t. So, even if it’s meant “optimal”, by claiming it’s “selfish” you are basically saying it’s the only way to play, because many of us don’t like to be selfish-and we don’t agree that it makes us selfish to use whatever gear at all, so the belief isn’t even rational.

What

Exactly, what? If not playing optimally according to your criteria is “selfish”, there’s no pint in discussing it further, because such is not really an honest, rational argument. Sounds more like trolling, to be honest.

How is it not rational? If you’re not running berserker, you can still contribute a lot to a dungeon party (just not as much as zerker), but it’s just you’ll be using a selfish stat, or two, or three.

I’m not sure why you’re fixated so much on the word selfish, I’m selfish for wishing everyone would follow the meta and run glass builds but I’m not making a big deal about it (omg guys I’m not selfish, ad nauseam), hell, it could even be argued that zerker is still selfish (running the strongest but most dangerous gear so you can get rewards asap), just that it’s the least selfish of all the stat combinations.

The sooner you can get over the stigma of certain words is the sooner you can uncloud your judgement and accept zerker as the least selfish amongst an entire list of selfish gear sets.

colesy.8490:

How is it not rational? If you’re not running berserker, you can still contribute a lot to a dungeon party (just not as much as zerker), but it’s just you’ll be using a selfish stat, or two, or three.

I’m not sure why you’re fixated so much on the word selfish, I’m selfish for wishing everyone would follow the meta and run glass builds but I’m not making a big deal about it (omg guys I’m not selfish, ad nauseam), hell, it could even be argued that zerker is still selfish (running the strongest but most dangerous gear so you can get rewards asap), just that it’s the least selfish of all the stat combinations.

The sooner you can get over the stigma of certain words is the sooner you can uncloud your judgement and accept zerker as the least selfish amongst an entire list of selfish gear sets.

It’s funny that’ its alright for you to call others selfish but when I called you arrogant in the other zerker thread for saying others are lazy, selfish, and bad, you were a bit miffed and you had to say others were QQing to make yourself feel better about it.

Maybe you should have taken your own advice about getting over the stigma of certain words.

colesy.8490
Oh, well I guess I’m arrogant then. Not like I’ve never heard that before or anything.
I’d have thought being called bad would give people an incentive to improve and “get back” at us “elitists”, but I guess all it does is make them QQ.
Seafarer’s Rest
Serah Mahariel (lv 80 Guardian) | Morrï (lv 80 Mesmer)
about 3 hours ago
+1
Quote Report Permalink

I wasn’t miffed about it at all, I was agreeing with you.

The point at which you’re resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to undermine colesy’s argument is the point in which you have nothing to actually contribute to the discussion.

This isn’t about colesy, this is about the Zerker stats.

Well

I’m very Content and Releived Arena net Finally Eliminated MF because afterall, it only Encourages Leeching and Unadvantage Loot Drop Play.

No one should ‘pay’ to get better loot drops by no means whatsoever.. period..

As to players demanding Zerke; I Don’t see what the issue is, everyone is Entitiled to equip zerker gears/builds as they pleased, what’s the problem?

And

What’s new to all of this Zerker making oneself Vulnerable (zerker-low damage resistance)?

Most certainly if your Zerker, you are easily Prone to quick self kills..

I don’t see no reaso to complain if a zerker gets killed by other non zerker classes (unless its a Thief- zerker or not; “you are dead meat” to them)

There are no reason to complain at all.

And Finally

It’s not Arena net Fault if you choose to Zerk, whatsoever

The choice is in your hands; none other

Maybe if toughness did something besides make mobs target you and die instantly.

Kirschwasser.3972:

The point at which you’re resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to undermine colesy’s argument is the point in which you have nothing to actually contribute to the discussion.

This isn’t about colesy, this is about the Zerker stats.

My bad. For some obscure reason I thought he was making personal attacks against all who didn’t play the game exactly like him when he called these people lazy, bad, and selfish. I have no idea now why I thought that.

It’s not like he undermines his own arguments when he does this……..

Some people here are underestimating how much of a role reflects plays in proliferating zerker groups. Some encounters that could offer a challenging experience, with coordinated use of control and support (high fractals imbued grawl shaman for example) are totally trivialized by reflect skills.

They should, in my opinioin, only reflect a certain amount of attacks.

Astral Projections.7320:

Kirschwasser.3972:

The point at which you’re resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to undermine colesy’s argument is the point in which you have nothing to actually contribute to the discussion.

This isn’t about colesy, this is about the Zerker stats.

My bad. For some obscure reason I thought he was making personal attacks against all who didn’t play the game exactly like him when he called these people lazy, bad, and selfish. I have no idea now why I thought that.

It’s not like he undermines his own arguments when he does this……..

So your solution is to join him in the personal attacks?

Kay.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Astral Projections.7320:

Kirschwasser.3972:

The point at which you’re resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to undermine colesy’s argument is the point in which you have nothing to actually contribute to the discussion.

This isn’t about colesy, this is about the Zerker stats.

My bad. For some obscure reason I thought he was making personal attacks against all who didn’t play the game exactly like him when he called these people lazy, bad, and selfish. I have no idea now why I thought that.

It’s not like he undermines his own arguments when he does this……..

So your solution is to join him in the personal attacks?

Kay.

Personal insults for everyone who plays differently from him, in this thread and the other, were so common I thought it was the new standard.

But point taken. I shouldn’t have stooped to his level.

Magic find is a a stupid mechanic that ANet is hopefully moving away from. ANet only wants a certain level of return from drops. The drop tables were designed with MF providing that level of return. Anyone without MF gets skritt. This makes MF essentially a tax on farming. Get rid of MF and up the drop tables to provide better returns to everyone. Down with taxes! Power to the people!

Anyways, Anet just needs to overhaul their dungeon design to be more interesting and require something other than raw DPS. If they rebalanced the numbers on incoming damage on players and the mechanics of a fight, you could potentially see different stat types becoming more viable.

As it is, when people aren’t wearing Zerkers in certain fights, it really shows and is really painful. Some bosses that are usually quick kills turn into unbelievably sluggish slogs.

I’m just glad that gear in WvW and PvP is a degree more diverse so I can actually use other gear-types.

I don’t find calling people lazy, bad or selfish insults.

I’m selfish. I’m lazy. There are games I’m bad at.

Sure, you all find them offensive and are going out of your way to prove you aren’t (you know, despite the fact that human beings by their very nature are inclined to procastinate [lazy] and be self-serving) but it doesn’t change anything. If you can’t use zerker, you’re bad at the game, and that’s because the game is easy. If you’re using defensive stats which only help yourself, you’re being selfish since a stat like toughness doesn’t help your team. If you don’t want to learn zerker and use an excuse like “I’m not skilled enough” then it’s just plain laziness, everyone can use zerker gear.

Astral Projections.7320:

Kirschwasser.3972:

Astral Projections.7320:

Kirschwasser.3972:

The point at which you’re resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to undermine colesy’s argument is the point in which you have nothing to actually contribute to the discussion.

This isn’t about colesy, this is about the Zerker stats.

My bad. For some obscure reason I thought he was making personal attacks against all who didn’t play the game exactly like him when he called these people lazy, bad, and selfish. I have no idea now why I thought that.

It’s not like he undermines his own arguments when he does this……..

So your solution is to join him in the personal attacks?

Kay.

Personal insults for everyone who plays differently from him, in this thread and the other, were so common I thought it was the new standard.

But point taken. I shouldn’t have stooped to his level.

Why Instigate?

Burnfall.9573:

Astral Projections.7320:

Kirschwasser.3972:

Astral Projections.7320:

Kirschwasser.3972:

The point at which you’re resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to undermine colesy’s argument is the point in which you have nothing to actually contribute to the discussion.

This isn’t about colesy, this is about the Zerker stats.

My bad. For some obscure reason I thought he was making personal attacks against all who didn’t play the game exactly like him when he called these people lazy, bad, and selfish. I have no idea now why I thought that.

It’s not like he undermines his own arguments when he does this……..

So your solution is to join him in the personal attacks?

Kay.

Personal insults for everyone who plays differently from him, in this thread and the other, were so common I thought it was the new standard.

But point taken. I shouldn’t have stooped to his level.

Why Instigate?

Did I not say, point taken I shouldn’t have stooped to his level? I’m agreeing with you I shouldn’t have.

OP doesn’t understand that Anet just wants to nerf MF. Why do you think the last 3 months rare loot tables have been invested with useless tokens?

I “can’t” use all zerker without being a liability to my team, unfortunately. My guess is simply that I don’t log on as much as most who can run full offense (while I love to play, I have many responsibilities as well). I am working zerker gear (weps/1 ring/rubies on knights) into my build and getting better at reading tells, etc. I guess in my case and for many others, it’s a learning process. As long as you are pushing yourself to improve, more damage will come if that is your goal.

Hickeroar.9734:

As I said. Deluded.

Not an insult, just a fact.

He’s just provoking you.

Hey, if anybody ever needs someone who couldn’t care less about speed runs and how big my DPS kitten is then new player here. :-) Joking….

Seriously, play the way you want. But I am seeing that unless ANet takes care of this, the community is going to congregate into three different groups.

Players who want all zerker all the time, those that appreciate build variety and noobs trying to figure out what the hell is going on between all of the confusion and vitriol being spit back and forth.

But I am with some people here. I play like I want to play, not because something is believed to be optimal, (And lol, optimal is such a dynamic term in MMO games. It is hilarious. I have seen what is “optimal” change all of the time.)

This needs to be balanced and fixed in the end. And I hate to say it but this is what happens when you get rid of the trinity…. When you cannot define roles, a lot of people go into Min/Max mode and try to twink every bit of DPS that they can. ANet has a lot of work to do to balance out a game without the trinity.

Darkeus.2369:

Hey, if anybody ever needs someone who couldn’t care less about speed runs and how big my DPS kitten is then new player here. :-) Joking….

Seriously, play the way you want. But I am seeing that unless ANet takes care of this, the community is going to congregate into three different groups.

Players who want all zerker all the time, those that appreciate build variety and noobs trying to figure out what the hell is going on between all of the confusion and vitriol being spit back and forth.

But I am with some people here. I play like I want to play, not because something is believed to be optimal, (And lol, optimal is such a dynamic term in MMO games. It is hilarious. I have seen what is “optimal” change all of the time.)

This needs to be balanced and fixed in the end. And I hate to say it but this is what happens when you get rid of the trinity…. When you cannot define roles, a lot of people go into Min/Max mode and try to twink every bit of DPS that they can. ANet has a lot of work to do to balance out a game without the trinity.

Yes! Like not making every dungeon boss immune to CC and not limiting condition damage in group play. Maybe even making some bosses immune to direct damage for short periods of time so that condition damage can have some sort of importance in PvE. Then you would need more variety of builds to clear content and create more dynamic team play.