Guild Wars 2

What do the most successful fantasy MMOs have in common? They had elves! People love elves. Remember EQ? And then WoW.

GW2 would have been better off not trying to be so original, and just stick with the races that people know and love. I’d guess that 80% of players dislike the Charr and Asura races. The Sylvari are not much better, although I suppose they are the closest you can get to an elf.

id prefer elves any day over any currently race…and has nothing to do with other games.

except that elves do not appear in any GW lore that I can remember. Why would you add a race that did not exist in any GW lore just because? Sylvari at least have the Pale tree from GW.

sonicwylde.2906:

except that elves do not appear in any GW lore that I can remember. Why would you add a race that did not exist in any GW lore just because? Sylvari at least have the Pale tree from GW.

doesnt matter, still elves > all your lore

Vayne.8563:

Actually, I wouldn’t even want to play a game with elves. I can’t stand them. And I’m not alone.

In fact, mmorpg.com has a column called “No Elves Allowed” about all the things that are traditionally in MMOs that the writer just can’t stand to see any more of. Ever hear the term “played out”?

Fantasy is a very very broad catagory. It’s long past time it’s expanded beyond elves and dwarves. I’m so glad they’re not in this game (and that Anet killed off the dwarven race in Guild Wars 1).

Thank you for saying this. When anyone wants to add anything remotely fantasy they just add Elves and, of course, Dark Elves.

It’s lazy imagination and such a boring and common trope. It’s time to move on people.

Egads, no! We won’t ever see elves in Tyria and I am so grateful for that! What are ya gonna demand next, Orcs? Elves don’t make a game good; the Sylvari are close enough if you want back to nature sorts – and they even have a “dark elf” analog in the Nightmare Court. If you want elves so bad there are plenty of games what have them frolicking around doin’ their elvish thing – Lord of the Rings Online comes to mind.

I think elves are part of the humans. I think there is a very small pop of them in Queensdale Eldvin Monastery.

You guys haven’t commented on what I said about the Charr and Asuran races. I don’t think anyone can deny that most people really don’t like to play those races. This game just doesn’t have enough cool races. People want to play epic characters, and that means being a race that you think is cool. Look at WoW, a lot cooler selection of races… blood elves, night elves, orcs, dwarves, goblins, etc.

elves are so boring, same with dwarves and orcs

give me the Charr, Asura, and Cabbage patch kids any day

I forgot from where but I got the notion in my head that elves were always plants.

Or was that just science officers on United Galaxy Sanitation Patrol Cruiser’s?

Sylvari are pretty much elves wich is why I can’t stand them. Gimme my Charr any day.

legion.7518:

You guys haven’t commented on what I said about the Charr and Asuran races. I don’t think anyone can deny that most people really don’t like to play those races. This game just doesn’t have enough cool races. People want to play epic characters, and that means being a race that you think is cool. Look at WoW, a lot cooler selection of races… blood elves, night elves, orcs, dwarves, goblins, etc.

I like playing my asura. charr I mainly dislike because it’s model is too bulky for jumping puzzles, which I happen to like a lot.

typical ‘what I think has to be what everyone thinks’ egocentric worldview.. if there were less people holding their own opinions so high, the world would be a so much more enjoyable place…

how are sylvari pretty much elves?

Tropes are still tropes
Sylvari-Elves
Charr-Orcs
Humans-duh
Asura-Gnomes
Norns are the only ones that actually break the typical fantasy race mold, woulda been more interesting though if they weren’t just bigger human models. Perhaps blue skin, or ice/ frost as part of the make up. More like Ice brood.

aren’t gnomes those things you put in your garden?

Creeper.9360:

aren’t gnomes those things you put in your garden?

I put mine in blenders, they make a good protein shake.

Good thing this game tried to be more original and not recycle the same races you see in every other MMORPG.

There are no elves in Tyria.

killcannon.2576:

Norns are the only ones that actually break the typical fantasy race mold

Given that Norse-inspired barbarians are a fantasy staple, no, no they do not.

There are two problems with avoiding the stereotypical fantasy race pit. First is mechanics – if everybody’s happily humanoid, you only need one set of mechanics for equipment. Great for programmers, but the problem is when you go humanoid, you end up with humans with funny makeup, who are socially or politically restricted in a completely arbitrary and nonsensical manner to make them “different”.

Second, even if you sidestep that problem and delve into the realm of non-human-with-funny-makeup, what exactly can you come up with that hasn’t been done? Centaurs? Glue sticks have been around since the Greeks, if not longer. Oozes? I admit, I totally want to play an ooze and just sit around in a puddle, doing ooze things, thinking about ooze stuff.

You want Elves and dummies in game?
Anyway if they brought in a non-playable Terry Pratchett type elf maybe. Otherwise do not miss them.

legion.7518:

You guys haven’t commented on what I said about the Charr and Asuran races. I don’t think anyone can deny that most people really don’t like to play those races. This game just doesn’t have enough cool races. People want to play epic characters, and that means being a race that you think is cool. Look at WoW, a lot cooler selection of races… blood elves, night elves, orcs, dwarves, goblins, etc.

I love my charr. I like playing one and knew I’d be playing one when it was announced they were a playable race. I like the Blood Legion storyline, I like the tone, and I find it suitably “not goofy” when people say the rest of the game is too silly. Any storyline quest where you beat down your superior officer for a promotion because he can’t respect you?

As for the asura, I’d cheerfully genocide them. But that’s because I despise the better-than-you attitude they let grow after Guild Wars 1. At least then they tempered it knowing that you were out to help them.

AS for World of Warcrack . . . I don’t think those races are interesting. Sorry? Maybe it’s because I played the RTS games and can’t see them otherwise. I’d much rather play my old Norrathian stable of races. Koada’Dal magician, Fier’Dal ranger, Dwarven Cleric. Either that or pull out my D&D books and go trawling for something . . . interesting.

Vlawde.1895:

Good thing this game tried to be more original and not recycle the same races you see in every other MMORPG.

Haaaa Haaa haaa..

Charr.. Orc, Tauren, etc.
Sylvari… Fae. EQ2 Fae are even plant born. Elves.
Norn. … Barbarians, Halasians.. eq staple for 13 years.
Asura are soooo Gnomish. geez.

Charr.. Orc, Tauren, etc.
Sylvari… Fae. EQ2 Fae are even plant born. Elves.
Norn. … Barbarians, Halasians.. eq staple for 13 years.
Asura are soooo Gnomish. geez.Not much of anything in this game is “original”.

sorry. Weird formatting error.

Interesting though. 30 year old NES junk is ecstatically raved about, but elves are no go. I find it very funny.

AngryCat.4825:

killcannon.2576:

Norns are the only ones that actually break the typical fantasy race mold

Given that Norse-inspired barbarians are a fantasy staple, no, no they do not.

There are two problems with avoiding the stereotypical fantasy race pit. First is mechanics – if everybody’s happily humanoid, you only need one set of mechanics for equipment. Great for programmers, but the problem is when you go humanoid, you end up with humans with funny makeup, who are socially or politically restricted in a completely arbitrary and nonsensical manner to make them “different”.

Second, even if you sidestep that problem and delve into the realm of non-human-with-funny-makeup, what exactly can you come up with that hasn’t been done? Centaurs? Glue sticks have been around since the Greeks, if not longer. Oozes? I admit, I totally want to play an ooze and just sit around in a puddle, doing ooze things, thinking about ooze stuff.

Yeah, but I was thinking more along the lines of player races in games. The Norse trope for pc’s doesn’t typically show up in games, maybe five off the top of my head. The mythology and lore is heavily borrowed though.

I vote for playable oozes too

legion.7518:

You guys haven’t commented on what I said about the Charr and Asuran races. I don’t think anyone can deny that most people really don’t like to play those races. This game just doesn’t have enough cool races. People want to play epic characters, and that means being a race that you think is cool. Look at WoW, a lot cooler selection of races… blood elves, night elves, orcs, dwarves, goblins, etc.

first off i will define cool after how i see it and that my not be the same way you see the meaning of the word.

for me a cool race is a race that looks great(has great art work) and in my oppinion that defines each race in tyria(with the exeption of a few option in each as i dont like the looks) and then it also has something to do with the lore and how the race acts to the lore and i think the races of tyria fits that makeing it fell very natural as some are not following the races general featers in personalty 100% or more like any named NPC dont. and then there is all the options tyrias races get when getting made.

killcannon.2576:

Tropes are still tropes
Sylvari-Elves
Charr-Orcs
Humans-duh
Asura-Gnomes
Norns are the only ones that actually break the typical fantasy race mold, woulda been more interesting though if they weren’t just bigger human models. Perhaps blue skin, or ice/ frost as part of the make up. More like Ice brood.

No, just no.

Sylvari are “maybe” Elf like, but not really. They’re created from a tree and raised by a tablet from a dead Centaur from a century prior. Their main goal in life that’s been drilled into them by the Pale Tree is an ever-urging lust to defeat the Elder Dragons. Some rumor with speculation that the Pale Tree itself is in fact an Elder Dragon of a “good” kind born into the world to counter the other Dragons and that the Sylvari are it’s minions.

Charr are not Orc like at all. Orcs are dumb brutes that charge into battle with sticks, rocks, and the crudest of things to beat the enemy to a pulp. The Charr, they’re part of a massive war machine; they even create massive war machines. They craft steel and bronze and other metals together to create their style in the world. They have giant metal cities, NOT dirt and stick cities that Orcs live in.

Humans….well crap, you’ve got me there. Can’t really get away from this one without making a completely unique “alien” lore"

Asuran people are above everyone else. Even though they’re smaller than others, they are smarter and all around better. They’re technologically advanced, and over 95% of Tyria rely on their Gate and Waypoint technology (amongst other things). Gnomes in other games are the butt of the joke, not useful at anything and the most untrustworthy creatures around; however in this game there’s always an Asura at the forefront of every invasion, investigation, and war strategy using their superiority to save everyone else (see Mad King invading Lion’s Arch, Karka invading Lion’s Arch, Tixx taking over Wintersday from the bookah Humans, and so on). P.S. Gnomes are Steampunk, Asurans are Techno.

I personally like all the races. They did really well with the sylvari too. They were more elf-looking before release but they changed them to what they are now and I couldn’t be happier that they did. If you want to play an elf then go play some other game.

Siphaed.9235:

killcannon.2576:

Tropes are still tropes
Sylvari-Elves
Charr-Orcs
Humans-duh
Asura-Gnomes
Norns are the only ones that actually break the typical fantasy race mold, woulda been more interesting though if they weren’t just bigger human models. Perhaps blue skin, or ice/ frost as part of the make up. More like Ice brood.

No, just no.

Sylvari are “maybe” Elf like, but not really. They’re created from a tree and raised by a tablet from a dead Centaur from a century prior. Their main goal in life that’s been drilled into them by the Pale Tree is an ever-urging lust to defeat the Elder Dragons. Some rumor with speculation that the Pale Tree itself is in fact an Elder Dragon of a “good” kind born into the world to counter the other Dragons and that the Sylvari are it’s minions.

Charr are not Orc like at all. Orcs are dumb brutes that charge into battle with sticks, rocks, and the crudest of things to beat the enemy to a pulp. The Charr, they’re part of a massive war machine; they even create massive war machines. They craft steel and bronze and other metals together to create their style in the world. They have giant metal cities, NOT dirt and stick cities that Orcs live in.

Humans….well crap, you’ve got me there. Can’t really get away from this one without making a completely unique “alien” lore"

Asuran people are above everyone else. Even though they’re smaller than others, they are smarter and all around better. They’re technologically advanced, and over 95% of Tyria rely on their Gate and Waypoint technology (amongst other things). Gnomes in other games are the butt of the joke, not useful at anything and the most untrustworthy creatures around; however in this game there’s always an Asura at the forefront of every invasion, investigation, and war strategy using their superiority to save everyone else (see Mad King invading Lion’s Arch, Karka invading Lion’s Arch, Tixx taking over Wintersday from the bookah Humans, and so on). P.S. Gnomes are Steampunk, Asurans are Techno.

Sylvari- In touch with nature, like hugging trees, live in a tree, everything about them screams “I’m an elf trope” regardless of how they came to be created. Also, that fan fiction stuff about the Pale Tree as a dragon is false, the dragons have all been confirmed except for the water dragon.

Charr- Smash, smash, smash. War, war, war. Growl, grumble, spit, curse. Orc. Just a bit more refined. Put a dress on a pig and it’s still a pig.

Asurans- “We live underground and like to make robots and other inventions that usually go horribly awry!! Sometimes for profit!!” This is about one step away from WoW gnomes and goblins. Gnomes in most other fantasy lore also share the “Mad inventor” trope. There just isn’t enough to set them apart from other gnome like races to say they don’t follow the stereotype. (They’re my favorite race in game though, with Charr a close second)

killcannon.2576:

Siphaed.9235:

killcannon.2576:

Tropes are still tropes
Sylvari-Elves
Charr-Orcs
Humans-duh
Asura-Gnomes
Norns are the only ones that actually break the typical fantasy race mold, woulda been more interesting though if they weren’t just bigger human models. Perhaps blue skin, or ice/ frost as part of the make up. More like Ice brood.

No, just no.

Sylvari are “maybe” Elf like, but not really. They’re created from a tree and raised by a tablet from a dead Centaur from a century prior. Their main goal in life that’s been drilled into them by the Pale Tree is an ever-urging lust to defeat the Elder Dragons. Some rumor with speculation that the Pale Tree itself is in fact an Elder Dragon of a “good” kind born into the world to counter the other Dragons and that the Sylvari are it’s minions.

Charr are not Orc like at all. Orcs are dumb brutes that charge into battle with sticks, rocks, and the crudest of things to beat the enemy to a pulp. The Charr, they’re part of a massive war machine; they even create massive war machines. They craft steel and bronze and other metals together to create their style in the world. They have giant metal cities, NOT dirt and stick cities that Orcs live in.

Humans….well crap, you’ve got me there. Can’t really get away from this one without making a completely unique “alien” lore"

Asuran people are above everyone else. Even though they’re smaller than others, they are smarter and all around better. They’re technologically advanced, and over 95% of Tyria rely on their Gate and Waypoint technology (amongst other things). Gnomes in other games are the butt of the joke, not useful at anything and the most untrustworthy creatures around; however in this game there’s always an Asura at the forefront of every invasion, investigation, and war strategy using their superiority to save everyone else (see Mad King invading Lion’s Arch, Karka invading Lion’s Arch, Tixx taking over Wintersday from the bookah Humans, and so on). P.S. Gnomes are Steampunk, Asurans are Techno.

Sylvari- In touch with nature, like hugging trees, live in a tree, everything about them screams “I’m an elf trope” regardless of how they came to be created. Also, that fan fiction stuff about the Pale Tree as a dragon is false, the dragons have all been confirmed except for the water dragon.

Charr- Smash, smash, smash. War, war, war. Growl, grumble, spit, curse. Orc. Just a bit more refined. Put a dress on a pig and it’s still a pig.

Asurans- “We live underground and like to make robots and other inventions that usually go horribly awry!! Sometimes for profit!!” This is about one step away from WoW gnomes and goblins. Gnomes in most other fantasy lore also share the “Mad inventor” trope. There just isn’t enough to set them apart from other gnome like races to say they don’t follow the stereotype. (They’re my favorite race in game though, with Charr a close second)

Except that elves are almost always an ancient and wise race, where as the Sylvari are a young race that hasn’t found itself. Hugging trees does not a race make.

And removing one facet of a trope does not make them less elf like. Eh, just my op anyway. I’ll always think of em as leafy, whimsical, tree hugging, hippie elves. Although the interaction between them and the nightmare court is more like the Seelie and Unseelie fae than the light and dark elves. So maybe more true fae than the elven offshoot. BTW Vayne, I noticed in another thread that you read some fantasy, have you read Prince of Thorns yet?

No elves please- night elves and blood elves will come next and from that it is just one small step to Death Nights…..
I love the races in GW2, sure they are somewhat familiar because they do match the familiar fantasy staple at least a bit.
They are an original take on it though and they are very well done and fit the world perfectly.
@ killcannon: Prince of Thorns was awesome

killcannon.2576:

Tropes are still tropes
Sylvari-Elves
Charr-Orcs
Humans-duh
Asura-Gnomes
Norns are the only ones that actually break the typical fantasy race mold, woulda been more interesting though if they weren’t just bigger human models. Perhaps blue skin, or ice/ frost as part of the make up. More like Ice brood.

Sylvari – Gaelic
Charr – Tatars
Ascalon – Russia
Kryta – Constantinople
Elona – Ghana
Cantha – Cathay
Asura – Platonistic Republic
Norn – Scandanavian

RebelYell.7132:

killcannon.2576:

Tropes are still tropes
Sylvari-Elves
Charr-Orcs
Humans-duh
Asura-Gnomes
Norns are the only ones that actually break the typical fantasy race mold, woulda been more interesting though if they weren’t just bigger human models. Perhaps blue skin, or ice/ frost as part of the make up. More like Ice brood.

Sylvari – Gaelic
Charr – Tatars
Ascalon – Russia
Kryta – Constantinople
Elona – Ghana
Cantha – Cathay
Asura – Platonistic Republic
Norn – Scandanavian

Good call on the Asura, the Eternal Alchemy is something that should be played up more in their storylines. @Morrigan, yeah I enjoyed it a great deal. It’s a refreshing take on the medium.

You guys claim you like all the races, but how many of you would play as Asura or Charr as your main? I still think that the vast majority of players don’t want to play as these races. More compelling races would have attracted more players to this game. Lots of people like the traditional fantasy races like elves.

legion.7518:

You guys claim you like all the races, but how many of you would play as Asura or Charr as your main? I still think that the vast majority of players don’t want to play as these races. More compelling races would have attracted more players to this game. Lots of people like the traditional fantasy races like elves.

I would. In fact, I have no main, but I’m very much attached to both my Asura and my Charr characters.

killcannon.2576:

And removing one facet of a trope does not make them less elf like. Eh, just my op anyway. I’ll always think of em as leafy, whimsical, tree hugging, hippie elves. Although the interaction between them and the nightmare court is more like the Seelie and Unseelie fae than the light and dark elves. So maybe more true fae than the elven offshoot. BTW Vayne, I noticed in another thread that you read some fantasy, have you read Prince of Thorns yet?

Nope, I haven’t. Are you saying I should?

I hate elves and never play as them, they’re just skinny humans with pointy ears and pale skin. Like twilight vampires hahahaha

don’t be mad.

This is no orc.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/559010_10151444077109209_1498316596_n.jpg

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

And removing one facet of a trope does not make them less elf like. Eh, just my op anyway. I’ll always think of em as leafy, whimsical, tree hugging, hippie elves. Although the interaction between them and the nightmare court is more like the Seelie and Unseelie fae than the light and dark elves. So maybe more true fae than the elven offshoot. BTW Vayne, I noticed in another thread that you read some fantasy, have you read Prince of Thorns yet?

Nope, I haven’t. Are you saying I should?

Yeah if you have the time, two in the series so far. Mark Lawrence is the author. New to the scene, but the books are very good.

Yeah, because anytime anything gets popular people just should mimic it forever more. I liked elves when I was 12, I’m bloody sick of them now. Pointy eared humans who happen to better at everything are not interesting.

And FYI my main is a Charr

legion.7518:

What do the most successful fantasy MMOs have in common? They had elves! People love elves. Remember EQ? And then WoW.

GW2 would have been better off not trying to be so original, and just stick with the races that people know and love. I’d guess that 80% of players dislike the Charr and Asura races. The Sylvari are not much better, although I suppose they are the closest you can get to an elf.

I don’t think you could have said anything more wrong. Many people are getting sick of Elves. Charr & Asura are 2 of the things that make this game great. Even if it’s just visual.

Interesting though. 30 year old NES junk is ecstatically raved about, but elves are no go. I find it very funny.

So take a hint & realize people are sick of them.

Sylvari are Elves of Tyria.
/thread

I may not know Elves, but I sure knows a troll when I sees one.

I’m glad the dwarves were killed off in GW1. Now all the stereotypical fantasy races are gone from GW2.

Even if they are just a slight reskin and a different name, I appreciate that GW2 is at least trying to break out of the Tolkien/D&D straitjacket.

Of course, personally I’d prefer no non-human races at all. I’m an RPG racist – it’s much more interesting to have a world with only humans, but with all of the variety in cultures and politics that real world humans have. Like Song of Ice and Fire or something.

legion.7518:

You guys claim you like all the races, but how many of you would play as Asura or Charr as your main? I still think that the vast majority of players don’t want to play as these races. More compelling races would have attracted more players to this game. Lots of people like the traditional fantasy races like elves.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/john-smith-on-the-state-of-the-guild-wars-2-economy/

This is from a while back. Humans were favorite class back then (and probably still are), but besides that, it’s fairly evenly distributed. So I think you may be surprised by how many people genuinly like playing the new races.

Photoshop pointy ears on your human character and you have elves…

Elves have never been part of the Tyrian lore. They have them in other games. Go play those.

I think of charr more like gnolls, to the point I even named one Gnoll Steakcutter. Anyone play DDO? The Black Citadel is reminiscent of the Burning City, though a hell of a lot prettier, and the Burning City was a dungeon.

zenleto.6179:

I think of charr more like gnolls, to the point I even named one Gnoll Steakcutter. Anyone play DDO? The Black Citadel is reminiscent of the Burning City, though a hell of a lot prettier, and the Burning City was a dungeon.

Is DDO any good? Always wanted to try it, but Eberon (or however it’s spelled) was kind of a turn off. Whenever I see the Citadel I always think “Death Star”.