Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

yolo swaggins.2570:

If Demand > Supply, Prices rise.

If Supply > Demand, Prices drop.

The only time this doesn’t apply is when markets are purposefully manipulated which happens regularly.

He is trying to increase demand. So the only thing that is going to happen is that the price of leather rises. Doesn’t solve the problem OP pointed out but go ahead and do it anyway.

If I read his post correctly, you’re missing something. If leather could be used for insignias then indeed he’s increasing demand for leather which will cause a price increase in those materials. What you’re forgetting is what impact this will have on cloth materials.

What impact? As steady as this market is, nothing is going to happen to cloth so long as it remains expensive whether its naturally or due to TP flippers. At most it’ll drop a few gold but that’s because simply modifying insignias to take leather or cloth does little impact on demand for cloth. At the same time, it seriously impacts the demand for leather causing the price of elonian leather to skyrocket.

In the end, his idea will end up making two not as expensive but still expensive mats.

What few people understand right now is:

- T2, T3, and T4 mats are in low supply compared to their demand. Their prices are therefore more expensive than others.
- Cloth’s overall T2-4 supply is lower than the supply of leather and metal. Their prices are more expensive than cloth and metal.

Secondly, insignias are just one part of ascended armor. There are liners too, and in the tailor’s case, the whole set. Simply increasing demand in something else isn’t going to divert very much demand away from cloth because cloth is always going to have a high demand. Hence his idea is not going to solve OP’s issue.

The only reason why Damask exists is because players make it with scraps. You flood the market with scraps and Damask is going to magically flood the market too and Damask’s price is going to go down. OP’s problem is solved.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

yolo swaggins.2570:

If Demand > Supply, Prices rise.

If Supply > Demand, Prices drop.

The only time this doesn’t apply is when markets are purposefully manipulated which happens regularly.

He is trying to increase demand. So the only thing that is going to happen is that the price of leather rises. Doesn’t solve the problem OP pointed out but go ahead and do it anyway.

If I read his post correctly, you’re missing something. If leather could be used for insignias then indeed he’s increasing demand for leather which will cause a price increase in those materials. What you’re forgetting is what impact this will have on cloth materials.

What impact? As steady as this market is, nothing is going to happen to cloth so long as it remains expensive whether its naturally or due to TP flippers. At most it’ll drop a few gold but that’s because simply modifying insignias to take leather or cloth does little impact on demand for cloth. At the same time, it seriously impacts the demand for leather causing the price of elonian leather to skyrocket.

In the end, his idea will end up making two not as expensive but still expensive mats.

What few people understand right now is:

- T2, T3, and T4 mats are in low supply compared to their demand. Their prices are therefore more expensive than others.
- Cloth’s overall T2-4 supply is lower than the supply of leather and metal. Their prices are more expensive than cloth and metal.

Secondly, insignias are just one part of ascended armor. There are liners too, and in the tailor’s case, the whole set. Simply increasing demand in something else isn’t going to divert very much demand away from cloth because cloth is always going to have a high demand. Hence his idea is not going to solve OP’s issue.

The only reason why Damask exists is because players make it with scraps. You flood the market with scraps and Damask is going to magically flood the market too and Damask’s price is going to go down. OP’s problem is solved.

You’re still not seeing it.

To quickly explain:

The majority of the cost is in the insignia.
Allowing leather to make the insignias reduces the demand for damask.
Reduced demand for damask reduces prices for it and all of it’s materials.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

yolo swaggins.2570:

If Demand > Supply, Prices rise.

If Supply > Demand, Prices drop.

The only time this doesn’t apply is when markets are purposefully manipulated which happens regularly.

He is trying to increase demand. So the only thing that is going to happen is that the price of leather rises. Doesn’t solve the problem OP pointed out but go ahead and do it anyway.

If I read his post correctly, you’re missing something. If leather could be used for insignias then indeed he’s increasing demand for leather which will cause a price increase in those materials. What you’re forgetting is what impact this will have on cloth materials.

What impact? As steady as this market is, nothing is going to happen to cloth so long as it remains expensive whether its naturally or due to TP flippers. At most it’ll drop a few gold but that’s because simply modifying insignias to take leather or cloth does little impact on demand for cloth. At the same time, it seriously impacts the demand for leather causing the price of elonian leather to skyrocket.

In the end, his idea will end up making two not as expensive but still expensive mats.

What few people understand right now is:

- T2, T3, and T4 mats are in low supply compared to their demand. Their prices are therefore more expensive than others.
- Cloth’s overall T2-4 supply is lower than the supply of leather and metal. Their prices are more expensive than cloth and metal.

Secondly, insignias are just one part of ascended armor. There are liners too, and in the tailor’s case, the whole set. Simply increasing demand in something else isn’t going to divert very much demand away from cloth because cloth is always going to have a high demand. Hence his idea is not going to solve OP’s issue.

The only reason why Damask exists is because players make it with scraps. You flood the market with scraps and Damask is going to magically flood the market too and Damask’s price is going to go down. OP’s problem is solved.

basically the demand for silk will be reduced when one of the main items can now be made with leather instead.

or you can look at it as increasing the supply of materials you can use to make ascended insginias.

in either case, the prices will fall for silk, and increase for leather.

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re still not seeing it.

To quickly explain:

The majority of the cost is in the insignia.
Allowing leather to make the insignias reduces the demand for damask.
Reduced demand for damask reduces prices for it and all of it’s materials.

Oh i’ve been seeing it and it isn’t that simple. Did you even read my comment?

Damask isn’t made with damask scraps salvaged from ascended armor. It is made with cotton, linen, wool and silk in a market where demand > supply. How do we drop prices? Make supply > demand.

Simply increasing demand in leather isn’t going to change much unless your goal is to make a profit off of leather too.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re still not seeing it.

To quickly explain:

The majority of the cost is in the insignia.
Allowing leather to make the insignias reduces the demand for damask.
Reduced demand for damask reduces prices for it and all of it’s materials.

Oh i’ve been seeing it and it isn’t that simple. Did you even read my comment?

Damask isn’t made with damask scraps salvaged from ascended armor. It is made with cotton, linen, wool and silk in a market where demand > supply. How do we drop prices? Make supply > demand.

Simply increasing demand in leather isn’t going to change much unless your goal is to make a profit off of leather too.

It is that simple. I did read your post but found most of it irrelvent to what I was arguing and it came off still as you didn’t understand the impact that using leather to make ascended insignias would have. Based on your edit, I don’t think you understand still.

There more to economics than just supply/demand

Ayrilana.1396:

It is that simple. I did read your post but found most of it irrelvent to what I was arguing and it came off still as you didn’t understand the impact that using leather to make ascended insignias would have. Based on your edit, I don’t think you understand still.

There more to economics than just supply/demand

You’re right! Its called psychology which you’ve made obvious its irrelevant. But let’s picture this for a moment.

Let’s say there are now elonian leather insignia recipes available. The first thing players will do is buy up elonian leather, turn it into insignias and then place them on the TP for jacked up prices. Elonian leather’s price skyrockets kitten well near cloth prices and then hits a plateau where the still high prices hover around eachother.

Until all that happens, the only people to even touch cloth insignias will be TP flippers. And the only people who easily profit from any of this are the TP flippers. This whole idea to increase demand for leather does nothing but benefit TP flippers.

So yeah, it isn’t that simple.

Lower silk amount for damask and raise amounts for everything else.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

It is that simple. I did read your post but found most of it irrelvent to what I was arguing and it came off still as you didn’t understand the impact that using leather to make ascended insignias would have. Based on your edit, I don’t think you understand still.

There more to economics than just supply/demand

You’re right! Its called psychology which you’ve made obvious its irrelevant. But let’s picture this for a moment.

Let’s say there are now elonian leather insignia recipes available. The first thing players will do is buy up elonian leather, turn it into insignias and then place them on the TP for jacked up prices. Elonian leather’s price skyrockets kitten well near cloth prices and then hits a plateau where the still high prices hover around eachother.

Until all that happens, the only people to even touch cloth insignias will be TP flippers. And the only people who easily profit from any of this are the TP flippers. This whole idea to increase demand for leather does nothing but benefit TP flippers.

So yeah, it isn’t that simple.

So what you’re telling me is that by adding leather to be able to craft insignias, it will not affect the cost of crafting ascended armor as elonian leather will just skyrocket until it hits where damask is now?

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

It is that simple. I did read your post but found most of it irrelvent to what I was arguing and it came off still as you didn’t understand the impact that using leather to make ascended insignias would have. Based on your edit, I don’t think you understand still.

There more to economics than just supply/demand

You’re right! Its called psychology which you’ve made obvious its irrelevant. But let’s picture this for a moment.

Let’s say there are now elonian leather insignia recipes available. The first thing players will do is buy up elonian leather, turn it into insignias and then place them on the TP for jacked up prices. Elonian leather’s price skyrockets kitten well near cloth prices and then hits a plateau where the still high prices hover around eachother.

Until all that happens, the only people to even touch cloth insignias will be TP flippers. And the only people who easily profit from any of this are the TP flippers. This whole idea to increase demand for leather does nothing but benefit TP flippers.

So yeah, it isn’t that simple.

so you are saying player psychology will trump supply and demand.
that happens sometimes, but in this case its unlikely.

the velocity of silk and leather is too high, eventually the psychology wont be an issue.

the only possibility that would cause the price stay the same is if more players opted in because it was easier, but if the price stays the same that is unlikely.

over time its gonna come down to the demand shifting lowering the price.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Lower silk amount for damask and raise amounts for everything else.

Or let heavy armor and medium armor have a chance at dropping cloth. I mean they take more cloth than ore and leather anyway, why aren’t they dropping cloth instead of ore and leather? If everything’s going to take cloth, everything should have a chance to drop it.

phys.7689:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

It is that simple. I did read your post but found most of it irrelvent to what I was arguing and it came off still as you didn’t understand the impact that using leather to make ascended insignias would have. Based on your edit, I don’t think you understand still.

There more to economics than just supply/demand

You’re right! Its called psychology which you’ve made obvious its irrelevant. But let’s picture this for a moment.

Let’s say there are now elonian leather insignia recipes available. The first thing players will do is buy up elonian leather, turn it into insignias and then place them on the TP for jacked up prices. Elonian leather’s price skyrockets kitten well near cloth prices and then hits a plateau where the still high prices hover around eachother.

Until all that happens, the only people to even touch cloth insignias will be TP flippers. And the only people who easily profit from any of this are the TP flippers. This whole idea to increase demand for leather does nothing but benefit TP flippers.

So yeah, it isn’t that simple.

so you are saying player psychology will trump supply and demand.
that happens sometimes, but in this case its unlikely.

the velocity of silk and leather is too high, eventually the psychology wont be an issue.

the only possibility that would cause the price stay the same is if more players opted in because it was easier, but if the price stays the same that is unlikely.

over time its gonna come down to the demand shifting lowering the price.

You can’t have supply/demand without human interaction. You can’t have human interaction without psychology. So it is more like “supply/ demand IS psychology”. And since the first people to jump on leather the moment there is a good reason to use it are desperate crafters and TP flippers, what I just described is as close to what will happen as anyone can get.

But my overall point is that it isn’t going to solve OP’s problem since the end result will be leather being close to as expensive as cloth is now.

yolo swaggins.2570:

phys.7689:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

It is that simple. I did read your post but found most of it irrelvent to what I was arguing and it came off still as you didn’t understand the impact that using leather to make ascended insignias would have. Based on your edit, I don’t think you understand still.

There more to economics than just supply/demand

You’re right! Its called psychology which you’ve made obvious its irrelevant. But let’s picture this for a moment.

Let’s say there are now elonian leather insignia recipes available. The first thing players will do is buy up elonian leather, turn it into insignias and then place them on the TP for jacked up prices. Elonian leather’s price skyrockets kitten well near cloth prices and then hits a plateau where the still high prices hover around eachother.

Until all that happens, the only people to even touch cloth insignias will be TP flippers. And the only people who easily profit from any of this are the TP flippers. This whole idea to increase demand for leather does nothing but benefit TP flippers.

So yeah, it isn’t that simple.

so you are saying player psychology will trump supply and demand.
that happens sometimes, but in this case its unlikely.

the velocity of silk and leather is too high, eventually the psychology wont be an issue.

the only possibility that would cause the price stay the same is if more players opted in because it was easier, but if the price stays the same that is unlikely.

over time its gonna come down to the demand shifting lowering the price.

You can’t have supply/demand without human interaction. You can’t have human interaction without psychology. So it is more like “supply/ demand IS psychology”. And since the first people to jump on leather the moment there is a good reason to use it are desperate crafters and TP flippers, what I just described is as close to what will happen as anyone can get.

But my overall point is that it isn’t going to solve OP’s problem since the end result will be leather being close to as expensive as cloth is now.

Incorrect. Leather prices will increase while cloth prices decrease. They’ll eventually balance out somewhere between where leather and cloth prices are now.

UPDATE: Mystic forge recipe converting same tier leather to cloth added.

Ayrilana.1396:

Incorrect. Leather prices will increase while cloth prices decrease. They’ll eventually balance out somewhere between where leather and cloth prices are now.

If you suggest that the increased price of leather is going to be proportional to the price drop of cloth, that’s where you are wrong.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

Incorrect. Leather prices will increase while cloth prices decrease. They’ll eventually balance out somewhere between where leather and cloth prices are now.

If you suggest that the increased price of leather is going to be proportional to the price drop of cloth, that’s where you are wrong.

That’s not at all what I said.

Surbrus.6942:

The requirement of 300 t5 cloth is needed for each bolt of Damask is the reason. Anet went far overboard with this t5 mat cost in comparison to the other t7 mat requirements, which call for far less. The rest only need 150 for leather, 100 for ore, and 150 for lumber.

Mtpelion.4562 did a good job in explaining why there is a difference in supply, as ore and lumber can be targeted for harvesting much easier. Due to GW2’s extremely large focus on RNG for drops, cloth and leather cannot be targeted for farming (just like most crafting mats can no longer be targeted for profitable farming anymore, and the strategy is simply “farm gold and buy your mats off the TP”).

To make up for this imbalance in supply, many people salvage cloth drops, even if they vendor everything else for coin. Although even this is not enough to bring the price of t5 cloth anywhere close to any other t5 material.

The demand side of the equation has no reason to be as imbalanced as it is. Honestly it seems like it was a math error that Anet just ran with, refusing to fix it as that would be admitting a mistake (unfortunately this bad behaviour is common for today’s Anet).

The result of this large miss match in supply and demand compared to other t5 mats, makes Light Ascended armour far more expensive than it’s Medium and Heavy counterparts (for no good reason at all). It is fine if certain parts of the crafting process have different costs, however the end products should not be so different in costs.

As for Carighan.6758 comment on backlash. Who kittening cares? Forum whiners whine about everything, they should be ignored if they are whining to protect math errors for whatever bizarre reasons they have.

agree word for word.
it’s BS that ascended light armor is so much more expensive. there is no reasonable justification for it.

but it is fun to read the TP players try to justify it.

reduce the amount from 100 to 50…and let that sit for a while. see if that works……you still need the silk to make the other armors….its still rng to acquire…..and thus it would still be monetarily valuable (just not insane).

Ayrilana.1396:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

Incorrect. Leather prices will increase while cloth prices decrease. They’ll eventually balance out somewhere between where leather and cloth prices are now.

If you suggest that the increased price of leather is going to be proportional to the price drop of cloth, that’s where you are wrong.

That’s not at all what I said.

Then what do you guesstimate will be the final prices for each? If you are so confident that making leather insignias is a better idea than increasing cloth scrap supply, then what will be the final prices?

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

Incorrect. Leather prices will increase while cloth prices decrease. They’ll eventually balance out somewhere between where leather and cloth prices are now.

If you suggest that the increased price of leather is going to be proportional to the price drop of cloth, that’s where you are wrong.

That’s not at all what I said.

Then what do you guesstimate will be the final prices for each? If you are so confident that making leather insignias is a better idea than increasing cloth scrap supply, then what will be the final prices?

I cannot state what the final prices will be for both leather and cloth as I don’t have access to the data that Anet has. What I do know is that the price of both will fall somewhere between what leather is now and what cloth is now. It’s pretty obvious that it will fall in this range.

What you do not seem to understand is the demand for ascended armor. The largest cost factor in ascended armor is the insignias. Adding leather as an option to craft insignias alleviates the stress on the cloth supplies. Leather prices will go up and cloth prices will go down. Since both of these have very little to no uses outside of ascended, unlike mithril, I’d say that they will more or less come to about the same price in terms of cost to craft T7.

What I do know for certain is that your claim that leather will just simply rise to match what cloth is today is very incorrect. Whenever you add more ways to get something, prices tend to fall. In this case, ascended armor prices will fall.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

Incorrect. Leather prices will increase while cloth prices decrease. They’ll eventually balance out somewhere between where leather and cloth prices are now.

If you suggest that the increased price of leather is going to be proportional to the price drop of cloth, that’s where you are wrong.

That’s not at all what I said.

Then what do you guesstimate will be the final prices for each? If you are so confident that making leather insignias is a better idea than increasing cloth scrap supply, then what will be the final prices?

My guestimate would be that the final price for an insignia will be well below the price Anet intended, therefore it wont happen.

Again, people in this thread throw around various solutions for different problems.

There are 3 main perceived problems with silk/damask:

• Damask is too expensive because the silk requirements are too high
• Damask is too expensive compared to the other t7 mats
• Light armor users are at a financial (and timegate) disadvantage to heavy and light users

The first problem is simply a matter of opinion. Of course, people who want to craft damask, complain about the silk requirements and costs overall but ascended crafting was introduced as a long term goal. Apart from the timegating, the high gold cost are the biggest reason why it is a long term goal for most players.
You shouldnt ask yourself, if you think damask is too expensive, you should ask if Anet wants damask (and therefore ascended overall) to be cheaper. And if Anet wants it to be cheaper, why do you think they dont have ways, tried and tested, to do so?
They successfully added new permanent and temporary faucets for cloth during season 2 to shave off nearly 50% of the value of silk and nearly 20% off the value of damask and since the end of season 2 both prices are incredibly stable.
If they wanted to decrease the value further, they know how. They are not doing it, hence, they are fine with its current price range.

Problem 2 is just a perceived problem, that materials of the same tier should have the same value. But thats not mandatory to have a balanced economy. The same goes for the common misconception that the value of a material should rise with its tier (silk more expensive than gossamer). There is no economic reason why this has to be the case.

The third problem can actually be seen as a problem. There are several ways to address the problem of high costs for light armor compared to medium and heavy. Devaluing damask drastically is not one of them, as it would only decrease price difference between all three sets by lowering the overall price of all three sets. It wouldnt solve the problem, the imbalance in timegates and gold would still be there but would have an unintended side effect (considerably cheaper ascended armor over all).
The only way to address this imbalance is to change recipes that require damask and substitute some of its demand with demand for leather.
But Anet has been very reluctant to change recipes in the past and only has done so on a handful of occassions during the last 3 years. So I wouldnt hold my breath for it.

Wanze.8410:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Ayrilana.1396:

Incorrect. Leather prices will increase while cloth prices decrease. They’ll eventually balance out somewhere between where leather and cloth prices are now.

If you suggest that the increased price of leather is going to be proportional to the price drop of cloth, that’s where you are wrong.

That’s not at all what I said.

Then what do you guesstimate will be the final prices for each? If you are so confident that making leather insignias is a better idea than increasing cloth scrap supply, then what will be the final prices?

My guestimate would be that the final price for an insignia will be well below the price Anet intended, therefore it wont happen.

Again, people in this thread throw around various solutions for different problems.

There are 3 main perceived problems with silk/damask:

• Damask is too expensive because the silk requirements are too high
• Damask is too expensive compared to the other t7 mats
• Light armor users are at a financial (and timegate) disadvantage to heavy and light users

The first problem is simply a matter of opinion. Of course, people who want to craft damask, complain about the silk requirements and costs overall but ascended crafting was introduced as a long term goal. Apart from the timegating, the high gold cost are the biggest reason why it is a long term goal for most players.
You shouldnt ask yourself, if you think damask is too expensive, you should ask if Anet wants damask (and therefore ascended overall) to be cheaper. And if Anet wants it to be cheaper, why do you think they dont have ways, tried and tested, to do so?
They successfully added new permanent and temporary faucets for cloth during season 2 to shave off nearly 50% of the value of silk and nearly 20% off the value of damask and since the end of season 2 both prices are incredibly stable.
If they wanted to decrease the value further, they know how. They are not doing it, hence, they are fine with its current price range.

Problem 2 is just a perceived problem, that materials of the same tier should have the same value. But thats not mandatory to have a balanced economy. The same goes for the common misconception that the value of a material should rise with its tier (silk more expensive than gossamer). There is no economic reason why this has to be the case.

The third problem can actually be seen as a problem. There are several ways to address the problem of high costs for light armor compared to medium and heavy. Devaluing damask drastically is not one of them, as it would only decrease price difference between all three sets by lowering the overall price of all three sets. It wouldnt solve the problem, the imbalance in timegates and gold would still be there but would have an unintended side effect (considerably cheaper ascended armor over all).
The only way to address this imbalance is to change recipes that require damask and substitute some of its demand with demand for leather.
But Anet has been very reluctant to change recipes in the past and only has done so on a handful of occassions during the last 3 years. So I wouldnt hold my breath for it.

I would guess cloth would only retain about 30-40% of its value at best if you could make insignias out of leather. I think a gentle way of nudging the damask requirement would be for tailor components to use a few more pieces of elonian and a few less damask.

Cloth may lose a percentage of its value but you gain a lot of it back with leather now having value rather than being vendored or trashed.

Carighan.6758:

The only actual fix they could do here would be to change the blueprints for many ascended armor pieces to require less damask.

Can you imagine the uproar? I can’t, only that it’d be crazy big.

No, there is more than one way to skin this cat (although skinning cats should give leather not silk).

The “fix” could also be to reduce the amount of silk needed for the spool of thread from 100 to 50 like the others (150 rather than 300 silk), or to reduce the amount of silk needed for a bolt from 3 to 2 (200 rather than 300 silk), or to increase the amount of silk returned from salvaging goods, or to increase the drop chance for silk (or salvage items that give silk) in containers, or to add some type of cloth “nodes” that work similarly to ore and trees to the world, or to allow people to buy cloth in game for karma, or any combination of the above.

Also what uproar? I think that most people would be quite happy with this. Do you mean the inevitable forum thread where a small handful of people spend ages going round and round in circles complaining about this “slap in the face to all the x who ever did y” while declaring that this change will destroy GW2 and cause everyone to quit and so on whilst other people occasionally posts to say that it’s not a big deal and spark off another mini flame-war in the thread? I can imagine that. I can also ignore it.

People are too quick to declare that the sky is falling whenever a change is made.

For those in the know, it’s actually dead easy to obtain all the lower tier fabrics using karma. it’s a bit clunky but boy when one has a few million karma it’s not much a big deal. I haven’t had to buy any silk, wool, linen or cotton off the tp at all

Azrael.4960:

For those in the know, it’s actually dead easy to obtain all the lower tier fabrics using karma. it’s a bit clunky but boy when one has a few million karma it’s not much a big deal. I haven’t had to buy any silk, wool, linen or cotton off the tp at all

There’s no bundled cloth you can buy from karma or anything like that.

You have to buy tons of gear, mystic forge it until you get cloth gear, then salvage it.

All that clicking is HORRIBLY bad and unhealthy for anyone’s fingers.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Azrael.4960:

For those in the know, it’s actually dead easy to obtain all the lower tier fabrics using karma. it’s a bit clunky but boy when one has a few million karma it’s not much a big deal. I haven’t had to buy any silk, wool, linen or cotton off the tp at all

There’s no bundled cloth you can buy from karma or anything like that.

You have to buy tons of gear, mystic forge it until you get cloth gear, then salvage it.

All that clicking is HORRIBLY bad and unhealthy for anyone’s fingers.

No. You buy the gear for karma, forge it then salvage it. Takes a while. But it’s manageable as long as one is patient

Bernie.8674:

Wanze.8410:

Bernie.8674:

Those who think it’s “working well” most likely crafted their damask back when silk was going for nine copper rather than two silver

When silk was going for 9 copper, damask wasnt introduced yet.

And I’m pretty sure that the day it was introduced all the cheap silk was immediately bought up by the players who are now contending that there is no issue.

There is no issue. There never was an issue. Outside of player-contrived, player-disseminated, and player-fueled issues. That means the system as it now stands works fine.

To quote JS: “I’m not even sure we agree that there is even a problem to discuss.”

Oh, my account /age is just over a year old, and in the last 4 months, i’ve had 3 precursors from the forge by throwing complete random kitten in, I’ve had 2 wurmslayer chests drop from TT, I’ve had 2 Hoards drop from Teq (within 3 weeks of each other), I’ve also gotten an ascended zojja’s weapon chest from teq, and 2 ascended armor chests from TT, one ahamid and one zojja. Almost forget, my first precursor I got from the forge after something around 6 months of playing.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Bernie.8674:

Wanze.8410:

Bernie.8674:

Those who think it’s “working well” most likely crafted their damask back when silk was going for nine copper rather than two silver

When silk was going for 9 copper, damask wasnt introduced yet.

And I’m pretty sure that the day it was introduced all the cheap silk was immediately bought up by the players who are now contending that there is no issue.

There is no issue. There never was an issue. Outside of player-contrived, player-disseminated, and player-fueled issues. That means the system as it now stands works fine.

To quote JS: “I’m not even sure we agree that there is even a problem to discuss.”

Oh, my account /age is just over a year old, and in the last 4 months, i’ve had 3 precursors from the forge by throwing complete random kitten in, I’ve had 2 wurmslayer chests drop from TT, I’ve had 2 Hoards drop from Teq (within 3 weeks of each other), I’ve also gotten an ascended zojja’s weapon chest from teq, and 2 ascended armor chests from TT, one ahamid and one zojja. Almost forget, my first precursor I got from the forge after something around 6 months of playing.

if by works, you mean people deal with it, sure, they have no actual choice but to deal it. So that really doesnt say anything

As to your other information, i dont see what your luck on random drops has to do with the price of damask or silk?

I don’t have any ascended gear that didn’t cost laurels. I am actually working my way through making an ascended set for my main. I refuse to buy mats for this endeavor. It will take me a long time because of the discrepancy between silk and all other mats.

I would like to see the discrepancy removed. I do not, however, have a problem with the lack of supply, nor the material cost in quantity and price. I want to see the cost for all the other mats to be increased to match silk. It makes no sense that it’s so easy to make everything else, but so hard to make cloth. It should all be hard.

I agree
Deldrimor Steel Ingot
Elonian Leather Square
Spiritwood Plank
should be made more expensive, they are too cheap at the moment.

Aidan Savage.2078:

To quote JS: “I’m not even sure we agree that there is even a problem to discuss.”

The real problem is what Wanze listed above as his #3, the difference between the cost of light ascended vs the others. John may not see this as a problem because it really isn’t a strictly economic issue, which is his area of interest.

Btw, here is a “solution” that should have pretty much zero impact on the economy. Swap the materials requirements for light ascended armor and medium ascended armor. I.e. make medium armor require 36 damask and 6 elonian leather and make light armor require 24 damask and 18 elonian leather. Anyone finding that change objectionable should easily be able understand the problem being discussed.

Pifil.5193:

or to increase the amount of silk returned from salvaging goods,

According to salvage research I have found this is, in fact, a problem. From what has been observed the light armor pieces salvage to less materials than their medium or heavy counterparts.

Malediktus.9250:

I agree
Deldrimor Steel Ingot
Elonian Leather Square
Spiritwood Plank
should be made more expensive, they are too cheap at the moment.

I agree, especially the leather since it should have parity with cloth based on how you get it, but the uses are nowhere near what cloth has which is the problem with leather.

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Aidan Savage.2078:

To quote JS: “I’m not even sure we agree that there is even a problem to discuss.”

The real problem is what Wanze listed above as his #3, the difference between the cost of light ascended vs the others. John may not see this as a problem because it really isn’t a strictly economic issue, which is his area of interest.

Btw, here is a “solution” that should have pretty much zero impact on the economy. Swap the materials requirements for light ascended armor and medium ascended armor. I.e. make medium armor require 36 damask and 6 elonian leather and make light armor require 24 damask and 18 elonian leather. Anyone finding that change objectionable should easily be able understand the problem being discussed.

I find it objectionable because it doesn’t make sense for light armor to require more leather than cloth for the armor components while leather armor requires more cloth than leather for the armor components. I’m not counting what’s used for the insignias.

Ayrilana.1396:

I find it objectionable because it doesn’t make sense for light armor to require more leather than cloth for the armor components while leather armor requires more cloth than leather for the armor components. I’m not counting what’s used for the insignias.

It makes as much sense as light armor costing ~35% more to craft than medium armor, right? Rather than the cost of ascended armor, the difference between the armor weights is THE issue that keeps all these “silk/damask is too expensive” discussions popping up. If the recipe for ascended armor was simply (for example) 150 charged lodestones and an abyss dye combined with any set of exotic armor in the mystic forge, that cost would be much higher than what ascended armor costs now. But it would be the same cost for light, medium, and heavy. People might object to its expense. They might object to the lack of relevance of the required materials to the final product. But they couldn’t object to one class of armor arbitrarily being significantly more expensive than others. Which makes no sense at all and is just as objectionable as requiring leather to make cloth armor.

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Ayrilana.1396:

I find it objectionable because it doesn’t make sense for light armor to require more leather than cloth for the armor components while leather armor requires more cloth than leather for the armor components. I’m not counting what’s used for the insignias.

It makes as much sense as light armor costing ~35% more to craft than medium armor, right? Rather than the cost of ascended armor, the difference between the armor weights is THE issue that keeps all these “silk/damask is too expensive” discussions popping up. If the recipe for ascended armor was simply (for example) 150 charged lodestones and an abyss dye combined with any set of exotic armor in the mystic forge, that cost would be much higher than what ascended armor costs now. But it would be the same cost for light, medium, and heavy. People might object to its expense. They might object to the lack of relevance of the required materials to the final product. But they couldn’t object to one class of armor arbitrarily being significantly more expensive than others. Which makes no sense at all and is just as objectionable as requiring leather to make cloth armor.

It makes perfect sense why light armor costs more. Cloth is required across all three armor weights which has been the case since the beginning of the game. The problem is the insignia that is required by all 3 armor weights which require 18 damask bolts in total. The difference between heavy and light is between 60-80 gold most of the time. I don’t see heavy armor users posting on here about leather armor being cheaper.