Guild Wars 2

Anyone else have a thing about playing them?

There is just something great about playing a Necro/Ranger/Engi and showing up a bunch of people who think you’re trash.

It’s safer from nerfs for sure. I never roll FOTM in any game, but I do have a knack for picking them with no research, early on.

Jordan is just like you, Khyber. Except he likes to argue in favor of underpowered classes.

Engineers either exploit confusion or boons just to be playable, and both of which are getting nerfed in this next example of a-nets better judgment.

I can agree that ranger and engie are underdogs. Necro, not so much.

I still think that whoever designed Engineers must have made Colin Johnson mad or something. Every time there is a patch, Engineers get nerfed. Engineers started the game weak, and get beaten into submission as a side thought each patch. It’s like watching an old Looney Toons cartoon where someone gets smashed into a hole, and then pushed down farther… and farther… and farther.

The first couple of patches it was humorous. Now it just feels malicious. Someone has it out for engineers 0_o

Tolmos.8395:

I still think that whoever designed Engineers must have made Colin Johnson mad or something. Every time there is a patch, Engineers get nerfed. Engineers started the game weak, and get beaten into submission as a side thought each patch. It’s like watching an old Looney Toons cartoon where someone gets smashed into a hole, and then pushed down farther… and farther… and farther.

The first couple of patches it was humorous. Now it just feels malicious. Someone has it out for engineers 0_o

I’ve been an engi for a long time, most of the nerfs really were needed. I would honestly accept “another” 30% damage nerf for grenades if just the #1 would auto-attack. For the health of my hand I don’t touch grenades much as they….

We have many ‘passable’ builds (Static Discharge, Gadgets, MultiKit,) but at the end of the day our primary builds (HGH Nades, HGH Pistol/Rifle, TurretBunker) are better in every way.

Buff the engi weak builds, not nerf the powerful ones.

Zaviel.1245:

Tolmos.8395:

I still think that whoever designed Engineers must have made Colin Johnson mad or something. Every time there is a patch, Engineers get nerfed. Engineers started the game weak, and get beaten into submission as a side thought each patch. It’s like watching an old Looney Toons cartoon where someone gets smashed into a hole, and then pushed down farther… and farther… and farther.

The first couple of patches it was humorous. Now it just feels malicious. Someone has it out for engineers 0_o

I’ve been an engi for a long time, most of the nerfs really were needed. I would honestly accept “another” 30% damage nerf for grenades if just the #1 would auto-attack. For the health of my hand I don’t touch grenades much as they….

We have many ‘passable’ builds (Static Discharge, Gadgets, MultiKit,) but at the end of the day our primary builds (HGH Nades, HGH Pistol/Rifle, TurretBunker) are better in every way.

Buff the engi weak builds, not nerf the powerful ones.

Just give turrets the ability to focus their fire on something, and actually hit dragons, and I’m happy

I have an engie, a ranger and a necro. I like them all. I play them all. The ranger particularly is one of my favorite professions in the game. And I do fine.

We beat Arah explorable a few weeks ago with 3 rangers, a mesmer and a guardian. It wasn’t planned that we take a mesmer and a guardian, I think we could have won through with five rangers to be honest.

The best thing was, everyone of the rangers had search and rescue. If people went down, pets would generally rez them, which kept everyone else fighting. It was actually a lot of fun.

It might not have worked as a pug, but with everyone a guildie and in mumble, it worked quite well. And we had a blast doing it.

Vayne.8563:

The best thing was, everyone of the rangers had search and rescue. If people went down, pets would generally rez them, which kept everyone else fighting. It was actually a lot of fun.

If I ever take a ranger to 80, it would be for this. One of my favorite utility skills. I love the idea of actually using the pet for more than just “GET ’EM!”

Tolmos.8395:

Vayne.8563:

The best thing was, everyone of the rangers had search and rescue. If people went down, pets would generally rez them, which kept everyone else fighting. It was actually a lot of fun.

If I ever take a ranger to 80, it would be for this. One of my favorite utility skills. I love the idea of actually using the pet for more than just “GET ’EM!”

It becomes like a juggling act at times. During the Lupi fight, where people do ocassaionally go down, we had rangers saying, if your pet dies, leave them dead, so when someone goes down you can swap out the pet and send them to rez. So everyone was leaving their pet dead until someone needed to be rezzed. I’m telling you, we were hysterical. It was a blast.

At least in PvE (I don’t PvP) the classes are well balanced. Where one is seen as weaker its from people who have yet to master it.

So I enjoy them all, for the most part. Have yet to get into Engineer because it lacks melee. Forcing myself of late to play one up till I can get toolkit and see if that’s vibrant enough melee.

Ranger is a lot of fun for me on sword/torch and axe/axe. Once I finally got rid of all my bows the class opened up for me.

Likewise, Necromancer, once I ditched the pets, has been entertaining. I enjoy dagger/dagger – but its also one of the only classes where I’ve been able to get into staff, even with that being all about ground targeting effects which I normally hate (hard to use while circle strafing).

Tolmos.8395:

I still think that whoever designed Engineers must have made Colin Johnson mad or something. Every time there is a patch, Engineers get nerfed. Engineers started the game weak, and get beaten into submission as a side thought each patch. It’s like watching an old Looney Toons cartoon where someone gets smashed into a hole, and then pushed down farther… and farther… and farther.

The first couple of patches it was humorous. Now it just feels malicious. Someone has it out for engineers 0_o

Some of us have opted not to play until they finally fix these issues. My guild leader left the game because they still haven’t fixed necros but yeah no one’s received a nerf every single patch cept 1 like engineers have and yeah there’s definitely something seriously wrong with what they are thinking with that class. It’s fine that it’s a medium playing zone but they seriously need to crap or get off the pot about this “is it a adventurer or is it a soldier” stuff because that’s a major part of the problem with it’s DPS and crazy self CC from it’s own defensive moves.

I think you might be right, they definitely don’t treat engis with any kind of respect. They acted like it the first month with a liaison making it seem like they cared about all the glaring problems with the class but since then it’s been one contempt nerf patch after another until finally one day the defenders of the devs won’t have anything to defend because the class will become so bad that no one not even the elitists can play it.

tigirius.9014:

Tolmos.8395:

I still think that whoever designed Engineers must have made Colin Johnson mad or something. Every time there is a patch, Engineers get nerfed. Engineers started the game weak, and get beaten into submission as a side thought each patch. It’s like watching an old Looney Toons cartoon where someone gets smashed into a hole, and then pushed down farther… and farther… and farther.

The first couple of patches it was humorous. Now it just feels malicious. Someone has it out for engineers 0_o

Some of us have opted not to play until they finally fix these issues. My guild leader left the game because they still haven’t fixed necros

Wow…

That’s pretty silly.

That’s like the 6 year old who gets mad that Sally made a sand castle where he wanted to drive his little construction truck toy car and so then runs off screaming to mommy.

The funny bit is, I find my Engineer to be awesome in the open world, particularly with regard to farming, using the bomb kit. You pull a bunch of guys in with a rifle or pistol, switch to the bomb kit and kill like everything at once, while healing yourself and blinding them. It’s silly easy.

In dungeons you have to play completely differently but in most of the open world, the engineer is awesome. Oh and underwater, using the grenade kit, it’s also one of the strongest professions.

A bit yeah, I guess.
I love complex classes in most MMOs, and those often tend to be underdogs/weaker.
Also I hate when my class/character is somehow OP, because I don’t get as much satisfaction when I succeed with it.

Load up some tpvp, rangers and engineers are very popular there and having more than one on a 5 person team is common.

I like playing classes that are considered an underdog in other games. But in this game, take for instance your examples, I think all 3 of those classes are excellent.

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, I find my Engineer to be awesome in the open world, particularly with regard to farming, using the bomb kit. You pull a bunch of guys in with a rifle or pistol, switch to the bomb kit and kill like everything at once, while healing yourself and blinding them. It’s silly easy.

In dungeons you have to play completely differently but in most of the open world, the engineer is awesome. Oh and underwater, using the grenade kit, it’s also one of the strongest professions.

And both of these examples involve the use of grandmaster traits and specialized equipments. Grenades without grenadier (and steel-packed powder) are kinda crappy, bomb kit without the elixir-infused bombs trait lack survivability (and since you need to go near melee range, well, it isn’t that good).
And that’s the problem in the concept of the class. We are taxed for being versatile, but we’re mediocre at best if we try to do so, since we strictly depend on traits. And when someone makes an extremely specialized build (100 grenades, hgh condition) we get nerfed all across the board.

Manuhell.2759:

And that’s the problem in the concept of the class. We are taxed for being versatile, but we’re mediocre at best if we try to do so, since we strictly depend on traits. And when someone makes an extremely specialized build (100 grenades, hgh condition) we get nerfed all across the board.

That’s the problem all right. Eng’s flexiblity is great in theory but doesn’t reconcile with the heavy commitment to traits and gear needed for each situation. Want to WvW with an Eng, use a condition build. Want to PvE visit a trainer to re-trait (4s) and have a alt set of equipment to switch to a power build. (Ignoring PvP here, as builds are free in PvP). In reality, Eng builds that are comparable to other classes’ better builds typically have only one utility and 1-2 individual traits that can be hot swapped to a less effective but still reasonable build – flexible that isn’t.

I totally agree with you OP. These classes; Necro/Ranger/Engi. are obviously the underdog classes. As a ranger I can tell you countless of testimonies of being humiliation, rejected and discriminated by elite classes.

I can tell you how many times I was in FOTM parties; half way during the run, i was booted and replaced for war.
.
In fact yesterday a lot of people were shouting for group parties in LA; when I asked to join; ‘ranger do u need it?’, they tell me that, ‘party is full’ yet afterward they continued to shout for LFGM party. I do know how you feel OP for being looked and treated as trash class.

Very painful.

Ranger- The Underdog

The ranger’s biggest handicap is the pet. Ironically, the pet is supposed to be the ranger’s “defining” mechanic. Too bad it sucks. Bad pathing. Bad abilities that the pet can’t use on the move. Bad HP tables. Bad armor tables. Thanks for designing a class TO BE BAD. Ranger’s have other issues too, like poor trait lines and obnoxiously quirky weapons(sword 1 makes me want to cut myself).

Engineers have the build choices of an ele, meaning virtually none, only their only “viable” builds are still laughable.

I don’t think necros are quite the black sheep that engis and rangers are, but they could still use a boost.

Necro have to many things that dont make sense and lack a ton of stuff that we cant really get because of horrible class ability that prevet us from having nice things.

January. That is the only month engie didnt receive a nerf. It’s usually frustrating to read the patch notes and know whats going to happen to your class before you even read them. However, I still enjoy my engie and I dont think I could ever main a different class.

The necromancer feels off, but this is largely due to the problem with condition builds and the 25 stack cap.

They also lack a lot of the stunbreakers and mobility abilities that make playing the class really sluggish. Well, they do, but they’re on big cooldowns. To make matters worse most necro skills have an annoying casting time so you can be interrupted. Being in Death Shroud also renders you completely vulnerable to CC and conditions.

Although I feel the biggest problem with the necromancer is that they have to get pretty close to do any real damage. Staff auto is awful, and scepter is okay though still condition reliant. Indeed, a lot of successful necros have to close in with dagger to really contribute anything and that seems a bit odd for a caster character.

They’re not really too horrible, but you could definitely take a chosen class and do whatever you needed with less frustration.

Kiran.2705:

I don’t think necros are quite the black sheep that engis and rangers are, but they could still use a boost.

Not so much in PVE. Necro gripes are more of a PVP thing. The only problem necromancers face in PVE is the same problem everyone else faces that isn’t a warrior, guardian, or mesmer. Our DPS and utility is overshadowed by pretty much anything these 3 meta classes bring to the table, but thats a problem every class has that isn’t a warrior, guardian, or mesmer.

In PVP its ANets class philosophy we have a problem with. They’ve said they want us to be an attrition class, yet we can barely even do that. Guardians, engineers, elementalists, rangers, and even thieves all do attrition style combat a hell of a lot better than necromancers can. We also feel like our class is being balanced around a dumb mechanic that is supposed to increase our survivability in exchange for lack of mobility. In theory it probably sounds good, but in practice it fails. ANet has also decreed that we should only have limited access to stability and protection, which are the two things needed in order to properly do attrition combat. Funny thing about that. The guardian has the most access to protection, yet has an extremely small HP pool in comparison to necromancers. Guardians are able to out attrition necromancers.

They have also said they want people to have a hard time getting away from necromancers, and that if one gets you into their “kill zone” you should feel the pressure. Necromancers currently don’t work that way. Necromancers are actually one of the easiest classes to run away from and necromancers don’t have anything that resembles a “kill zone”. We plink away and slowly eat away your HP due to our slow application of bleeds and conditions. All of our projectile based abilities can literally be out ran by someone with swiftness. As was said above, staff auto attack is a joke. A horrible, horrible joke. It also doesn’t help that staff as a weapon is completely unable to stand on its own legs. Its regarded as a support weapon because you can’t actually kill anything with it on its own.

There is also the issue of condition builds being completely countered by the ridiculous amount of condition clears this game has. This might not be a problem if necros could cover bleeding with another condition, but the way the system is set up, last condition on, first condition off, bleeding is always cleared before anything else. Even though necros are the masters at condition manipulation, we actually stack bleeding very slowly in comparison to other classes. The condition damage master title really belongs to engineers as they have access to every damage condition type and can rapidly apply them in short order.

There is also the bleed cap problem, but everyone knows about that one already.

Our class mechanic also lacks any kind of synergy with what this class was designed around. Conditions. Everything we do in Death Shroud scales with power, not condition damage. This largely makes Death Shroud useless for condition builds, except as a short lived damage sponge.

the underdog was/is/will be the warrior, thats why it keeps getting better and better.

Ranger, hopefully this patch not holding my breath though 9 months is insane to be waiting..just a heads up spirits will still suck because they still get killed in one second…

Necro as others stated i go D/D/Wells seems good to me and i totally ditched useless pets..

Engineer, no clue where to go with this joke of a class, i wanted to play Guns and Flamethrowers/Elixir gun but no builds are worth my time, i do not want to use stupid wrenches and fiddly annoying grenades or bombs so i ignore my Engi..turrets die in a sec..

After hearing so much about how bad Engi’s are, and finding out first hand that Rangers are just as underwhelming as the generally voiced opinion, I wasn’t expecting much. I must say, however, that I find my recently created Engi very fun to play and not really that ineffective at all.

I play what is enjoyable to me.

In any MMO I’ve played, the class I rolled at launch is not the same within the year, and is further changed before an expansion, then the expansion tweaks it, and so on.

It’s funny reading some the posts. It’s really just a “Learn to Play” issue for people that think that Ranger, Necro, or Engineer are underpowered.

Or just make yourself nerf proof by getting all classes to 80 and equipping them with at least 2 sets of equipment. Then you can play whatever you fancy. And if A-Net nerfs something into oblivion (like rangers for pve) you can switch to something more enjoyable. (because right now ranger is really in a sad state.)

Eldiora.5836:

Or just make yourself nerf proof by getting all classes to 80 and equipping them with at least 2 sets of equipment. Then you can play whatever you fancy. And if A-Net nerfs something into oblivion (like rangers for pve) you can switch to something more enjoyable. (because right now ranger is really in a sad state.)

+1 Best advice out there. Also if more people had all classes to 80 maybe there’d be a little less “I’M SO HAPPY YOUR CLASS IS GETTING NERFED!” on these forums. I’d also be careful how I spent my laurels since they are the one currency that is at a premium.

I’ve currently raised an Engineer, Necromancer, and Thief to 80 in that order.

I’ve always liked the underdog classes. The way I see it, classes in these games can be treated in the same manner as economics. The advantage to the underdog classes is that, though they are not overall as good as the other classes they tend to have several tricks or “commodities” that they uniquely provide, and since these classes are much rarer, these commodities become more valuable.

In PVE I main the engineer. I like its utility and AoE damage. I do hate that the engineer keeps getting nerfed, though. I make builds to play the way I want to play, and not necessarily to to make them as powerful as possible, so whenever one of these things gets hit it tends to affect how well I can do.

In WvW I main the necromancer. I love how effect it is there. Skills that are only average or good become great in the WvW environment.

The thief, many people don’t consider this to be an underdog, but it really comes down to where it is being used. In low rank sPVP sure the thief is everywhere, but once you get into higher sPVP they disappear. At the high end, most players can deal with the ambush. In PVE their burst damage isn’t worth anything to those large bags of HP that make up champions and dungeon enemies. I find playing the thief about equally as difficult as the necromancer because of this.

In sPvP Engies, Necro’s and Ranger’s are some of the best classes at holding down points. But outside that? I wouldn’t know, don’t do much PvE.