Guild Wars 2

The other day, while I was sitting out of wvw (the only thing I like doing anymore in gw2) after a transfer, unable to actually play anything other than eotm, I thought about getting a new game. Maybe go back to WoW, maybe try some D3, oh, I know, Wildstar. I’ve heard a lot about Wildstar. I go to pre-purchase it, but it’s an NCSoft game. Right there beside gw2. People tell me NCSoft is just the distributor, but after the “experience” of feeling ignored for two years in gw2, instead of pre-ordering like I do just about every other game that comes out, I hesitated. Did I really want to give money to people related to this? Did I really want to set myself up for another game of “Well I’ve put 1000 hours into this so I might as well stick with it?”. And the answer was “No”. No I do not feel like getting mired into another unrewarding gaming experience that sees my wallet like it has a bullseye painted on it. The only devs I’ve ever not bought games from based on past reputation are Peter Molyneux and EA, if that gives you any indication of how low my opinion is at this point, but just being associated with ANet now is enough to make me put my credit cards away and move on.

I know people are going to point out that I got my money’s worth from gw2. Fair enough, I certainly did. But it’s not 2012 anymore, and we’re still playing 2012’s mmo. That’s really clear to a lot of people. I’ve played mmo’s since everquest 1, been playing muds since they were back on compuserve and AOL online “was” the internet to most people. Only in the most pay-to-win games do I see new people join and drop out like they do in gw2. I see many, many new people (low ap scores) buy the game, join a guild, play for 20 or 30 levels and quit. They don’t even bother to max a single character, because everyone in their guild has told them, repeatedly “There’s nothing to do at 80, leveling is the fun part”. They don’t believe it at first. Surely there’s more to it. But eventually, after they’ve been told by several people “No, really, there’s nothing special at 80 except more dungeons” it finally sinks in that they’ve totally wasted their $25/$50/whatever.

I want to support this company. I feel strongly, however, that whatever made gw1 great (seriously, that’s my all time fave mmo, you really outdid yourselves in a lot of ways) has been watered down and neutered into something boring, formulaic, and so startchy-clean and perfect looking that there isn’t a spec of dirt on a norn. Giant sweaty dudes wearing leather and carrying axes, killing things all day, but every single one gleams like the top of Mr. Cleans bald head. That was ok in 2004 with 2004-era graphics, it’s not ok a decade later.

I can’t do it anymore. Between the writing (those hiccups to break what laughably little tension there was in the Scarlett final scene are a perfect example), the family friendly until it’s painful art style, the npc’s in major cities constant spouting about how wonderful war is (as a veteran, “I had a dream about a war, I must go fight in it” is the single stupidest reason I’ve ever heard to volunteer to be a body bag, fantasy situation or no), and now this… modifying of things, instead of adding content, and acting like it’s something special… It’s the last straw for me for a while. I’ve put a lot of hours into this game, waiting for it to get good. It’s not getting good. I understand that now. This update has been upsetting to a large portion of your userbase, and I think most of them are going to sigh quietly and either go back to wvw or just move on to another game. Normally I would join them, but things have been wrong (to me) for so long here, and I’ve abided it patiently, that I feel I should speak up.

I’ll come back for the next LS event. I won’t expect there to be more than an hour or two’s worth of new content, and I will expect to grind that content until it gets boring because it will be the only thing there is to do in gw2 that I haven’t already grinded into the dirt.

There are a lot of people out there with 3x/4x/5x the achievement points than I do. People who never stopped defending you. If you go to reddit and mention that you’re disappointed with gw2 you’ll be downvoted to oblivion. It still took you two years to give those fans account-bound legendaries and account bound WxP. The phrase “battered spouse syndrome” comes to mind.

In some ways I think this is like EA’s move into mobile. Telling their customers “The new dungeon keeper wasn’t made for you, it was made for a new generation of fans”. Clearly, gw2 was not made to appease the people who played gw1. Maybe at one point that was the intention, but then some committee got ahold of it and now it’s just one big hot mess.

The game needs dynamic changes. Huge reworkings. Not skill balancing, not nerfing this skill and buffing that one, but big huge reworkings like when Blizz redid their starting zones with new missions and so on. The fact is, however, that if that ever happens in gw2, it will only happen when it is financially the only way left to survive. The vast majority of the things your real fans want (like the roleplayers you just screwed by taking their dyeable town clothes away, I don’t even RP but it’s clear that’s a jerk move aimed at the people who actually bother to buy your gems, and for what?) are never going to happen. You’re going to placate us with bits and pieces and hope it’s enough, and maybe it is enough for some out there. Maybe it’s enough for enough whales to keep buying those BL keys and keeping you going. I hope it is. I hope you manage to pull an expansion out in a year or two and give me someplace to actually wear those legendaries and be “proud” of them. As it is I look at that time spent as a complete waste of my life, and that’s not something I have ever felt about a game before. It’s something that really makes me re-evaluate where I want to spend my time and money, and that’s another sensation I’m not used to feeling from a game. I can name a few games I’ve played 1000+ hours of, and I have no regrets for them. No regrets for the hundreds of hours I sunk into gw1 at all. Then again, gw1 was never like “Hey break out your credit card and support me if you want bugfixes. You do really love me don’t you?”. The attempts at manipulation are transparent and unbecoming. I realize all mmo’s are skinner boxes to some extent, but you’ve really piled up the psychological impulses to buy (more! now! don’t you want the best stuff?!) in ways that are obnoxious and clearly visible. Everyone knows why the 5% listing fee doesn’t show up in the projected profits, and it’s no accident that it happened. The game is set up to make you waste money testing useless builds that require a full set of 20g armor+runes+sigils+this and that and oh you need more laurels and more this and more but you can skip it if you just. break. out. that. credit. card.

I know that this post will get flamed, and that’s cool, I don’t really plan on responding anyway, I just have wanted to express my displeasure with the direction this game has been taken for a long time, but today was finally a large enough, over-hyped letdown that I am uninstalling, and I wanted to say why before I go. I hope my criticism here has been constructive enough that it won’t simply be removed.

Yes, I spent 1000+ hours playing this game. However, that time has only made me increasingly positive that wherever you’re heading with it, it’s not going to be any place worth actually traveling to, and nothing I couldn’t find in 100 similar mmo’s, with new ones being released now on a near monthly basis. After 1000 hours, for someone to say “I don’t recommend that game, it’s a complete waste of time and a non-stop grind” is about the harshest criticism you could receive, but I don’t pretend that anyone that matters will actually see me pointing it out or care.

See you in a few weeks or whenever your new dragon comes out. Will not expect to be impressed. Feel free to prove me wrong on that one.

Thank you for your time, although, if I could go back to 2012 and do it all again, I would not have bothered to give you mine,

BFS

Yeah I really think Living Story turned out to be a colossal waste of their time and could have been spent giving everyone a couple permanent zones, dungeons, jumping puzzles, armor skins, legendary weapons and maybe even a few new skills.

Instead, they spent months and months working on and rolling out story releases that lasted less than a month each and are no longer accessible to anyone.

BloodFallsSilent, very well put.

I feel like this is one of the few sane posts on these forums. Everywhere else there are people praising arenanet for removing the ability to run champion trains, nerfing the already incredibly poor dungeon loot, and essentially charging you to reuse skins you’ve bought prior. And we can’t forget that nerf to the berserker armor that doesn’t change the game in any meaningful way, outside of making it so coordinated groups take slightly more time to complete a dungeon.

I think the comparison to “battered wife syndrome” is an clever one, considering the amount of people on these forums that are praising arenanet for such asinine, pointless changes in favor of actual balance and permanent content.

This update would’ve been mediocre if AT LEAST the wardrobe didn’t require you to purchase something to use skins you’ve already bought, but it’s worse than mediocre at this point.

Something tells me this thread will be removed either way. Can’t have anyone criticizing poor development choices or business practices, no siree.

I didn’t make it through the whole rant unfortunately but I agree on what I did read. This is a talented team hampered by poor direction.

Who ever is steering the ship has no clue whatsoever what the customers want and this game could be far more successful right now without them. How many people have asked for a way to re visit missed living story content and they just don’t give a kitten?

What is the rational exactly? temporary content actually alienates people. It doesn’t cause people to be “hooked” and tune into the next episode. Some people just cant do it due to real life obligations and then when they do get time its to late and so they are basically made to suffer. This has actually caused me to re evaluate even bothering with this game. Why bother coming back when there is still nothing to do because I “missed” it.

Where the hell is the expac as well. No one like running around the same zones over and over grinding 50 doors. 50 champs,50 of this. etc. etc.

I read a all of this and a post well done. I agree 100%

Game is still worth it for me. Excellent value to boot.

You won’t get any flame from me. I’m sad that less than 400 people will see this. Way too much hype for this patch.

I remember quitting GW1 for a while and getting a call from my friend out of the blue, “Did you hear about update X?” Then logging on and being blown away.

Those days are long gone, I’m afraid.

hip.8435:

You won’t get any flame from me. I’m sad that less than 400 people will see this. Way too much hype for this patch.

I remember quitting GW1 for a while and getting a call from my friend out of the blue, “Did you hear about update X?” Then logging on and being blown away.

Those days are long gone, I’m afraid.

You’re sad that people are excited? How gloomy.

Anet sure knows how to kill their own game

Trey.2135:

hip.8435:

You won’t get any flame from me. I’m sad that less than 400 people will see this. Way too much hype for this patch.

I remember quitting GW1 for a while and getting a call from my friend out of the blue, “Did you hear about update X?” Then logging on and being blown away.

Those days are long gone, I’m afraid.

You’re sad that people are excited? How gloomy.

Probably because they’re only going to be left with disappointment.
All but the most blind sheep.

A very good set of posts, Blood.

Frankly, now that season 1 of LS is over and the latest patch is out we are pretty much three steps back from where GW2 began.

The new wardrobe may add some convenience but it doesn’t really add any functionality to the game.

Role playing has been decimated by the megaserver move and the removal of functional town clothes.

At the end of the first living story we have no new dragon yet. No new areas opened up. Lions Arch totally empty. No significant changes to WvW. And the writing of LS was just really shallow. There was little to make you care about the characters other than maybe Rox and Braham.

Loyal guilds and alliances like TTS were totally ignored when they asked for the schedule to be altered to allow them to continue to do major bosses. I don’t know what will happen with the temple runs worlds like IoJ used to do now that world bosses spawn further apart.

We still have a grind for ascended gear, even if it can now be shared between toons.

Comparing how GW2 was on the day after release to how it is now, well, it just feels like we have less, not more. It really feels like they put out the info on the latest patch, asked opinions, and then proceeded to ignore every single thing their players said and every response we gave.

It just isn’t much fun now.

frankly, the new gemstore armor, which looks like rehashed versions of what we already have, is pretty much appropriate for this game. It is a badly rehashed version of what it was 12 months ago with less now than it had then.

Lamont.5973:

A very good set of posts, Blood.

Frankly, now that season 1 of LS is over and the latest patch is out we are pretty much three steps back from where GW2 began.

The new wardrobe may add some convenience but it doesn’t really add any functionality to the game.

Role playing has been decimated by the megaserver move and the removal of functional town clothes.

At the end of the first living story we have no new dragon yet. No new areas opened up. Lions Arch totally empty. No significant changes to WvW. And the writing of LS was just really shallow. There was little to make you care about the characters other than maybe Rox and Braham.

Loyal guilds and alliances like TTS were totally ignored when they asked for the schedule to be altered to allow them to continue to do major bosses. I don’t know what will happen with the temple runs worlds like IoJ used to do now that world bosses spawn further apart.

We still have a grind for ascended gear, even if it can now be shared between toons.

Comparing how GW2 was on the day after release to how it is now, well, it just feels like we have less, not more. It really feels like they put out the info on the latest patch, asked opinions, and then proceeded to ignore every single thing their players said and every response we gave.

It just isn’t much fun now.

frankly, the new gemstore armor, which looks like rehashed versions of what we already have, it pretty much appropriate for this game. It is a badly rehashed version of what it was 12 months ago with less now than it had then.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel.

I’ve been playing since Beta and even got my gf a copy on the 3 day pre-order thing. It was a very exciting game in the beginning, especially with thoughts and promises that they would continue to give content, similarly to how GW1 did (at least what I thought). Instead when I log in, there feels like even less to do than when I first logged in nearly 2 years ago.

I think the LS was a pretty big failure largely due to their decision to make them temporary and lock out that content after it was over. Now when you go to play tonight or tomorrow, there isn’t anything you can do now that you couldn’t do at launch outside of Fractals and southsun cove.

I agree with everything Blood posted, especially with WvW being the only part of GW2 that continues to be fun, if you are on a t1 server. The population for WvW will only shrink though, since anet isn’t really pushing reasons for people to get into gw2, like expansions, etc.

The poster above me made a point that many of us have been saying since they started the LS stuff, they spend all that time recycling art and coming up with a storyline that no one really cares about, then “Shut it down! Shut it all down!” a few weeks after the event is done. In Gw1 EotN, it was exciting when an adult Gwen appears, even though her only part in the story pre-searing was to lose her flute and ask you to find it for her. In gw2, no one gives a skritt about any of the forgetable characters introduced in all the LS stuff, they are just trying to grind through the achievements to get some cosmetic item.

You will note that the gem store gear they release along with the living world content stays in the gem store even after the event finishes though…

BloodFallsSilent.1703:

Instead, you’ve never gotten another dime from me, beyond the initial purchases. Every time I have been tempted to buy gems, I think about how greedy it felt during the 2012 halloween event when the BL Chest drop rate for the halloween weapons was stupendously low. I remember all the content that was removed. I think about all the minor (unvoiced by me, but pointed out many times here by others) complaints I’ve had that were never fixed, and the fact that there is not going to be any expansion any time soon, when it should have been here or have been announced, at the least.

Posts like this are always so bizarre and disingenuous, specifically for the argument here (which always seems to come about in some way or another). You’re saying you’ve been tempted to buy gems, but refrained because of a previous complaint, which ArenaNet has massively improved at this point? Gem store weapons like the Halloween set have been made hugely more accessible, yet you still refuse to buy any because they used to be a problem? Why should ArenaNet ever address any of your concerns, if you’re just going to cling to past issues as an excuse to criticize them in the future, even after those issues have been fixed and improved?

For all your complaints, you sound like the type of person who will never be satisfied, no matter how close ArenaNet manages to bring the game to your ideal fantasy.

Stormleaf.1769:

BloodFallsSilent.1703:

Instead, you’ve never gotten another dime from me, beyond the initial purchases. Every time I have been tempted to buy gems, I think about how greedy it felt during the 2012 halloween event when the BL Chest drop rate for the halloween weapons was stupendously low. I remember all the content that was removed. I think about all the minor (unvoiced by me, but pointed out many times here by others) complaints I’ve had that were never fixed, and the fact that there is not going to be any expansion any time soon, when it should have been here or have been announced, at the least.

Posts like this are always so bizarre and disingenuous, specifically for the argument here (which always seems to come about in some way or another). You’re saying you’ve been tempted to buy gems, but refrained because of a previous complaint, which ArenaNet has massively improved at this point? Gem store weapons like the Halloween set have been made hugely more accessible, yet you still refuse to buy any because they used to be a problem? Why should ArenaNet ever address any of your concerns, if you’re just going to cling to past issues as an excuse to criticize them in the future, even after those issues have been fixed and improved?

For all your complaints, you sound like the type of person who will never be satisfied, no matter how close ArenaNet manages to bring the game to your ideal fantasy.

Most of his critiques are about the game itself, not the gem store that you used the fanboi generic response on after focusing in on it.

TheLaughingMan.4320:

You will note that the gem store gear they release along with the living world content stays in the gem store even after the event finishes though…

And given the fact that the only new sets of armor introduced into the game itself in almost 2 years were the ascended sets, the ONLY way to get a significantly different look is through the gem store. Even the new ingame weapons introduced were connected to the gem store through black lion keys. Other than bits and bobs for achievement rewards, this game has added almost NO NEW INGAME ARMOR in a year and a half.

That is NOT a good sign of a company that is interested in its own game. And if ANet is not interested enough in its game, why should the players be?

I agree with this thread as well. The game is getting more boring and more grindy for nothing. Its like a bluff…

If I want to list I wouldn’t know where to start, though this whole thread has mentioned a lot of them especially the OP.

What is sad about it is that the team clearly have much potential to make things great. But for some reason it just doesn’t happen. Instead the team efforts were put into the living story which chewed on same ideas over and over till it got depleted really fast.

Lamont.5973:

TheLaughingMan.4320:

You will note that the gem store gear they release along with the living world content stays in the gem store even after the event finishes though…

And given the fact that the only new sets of armor introduced into the game itself in almost 2 years were the ascended sets, the ONLY way to get a significantly different look is through the gem store.

Especially now that they are removing dyes from loot tables.

They know dyes are popular items, they are trying to steer players towards the gem store to buy rng dye packs.

It’s either that or end up spending a fortune even on common dyes (prices are only going to go up), or spend a fortune on the mats to make “Unidentified X Dye” as a chef. The mats for those recipes will shoot up in price, too.

TheLaughingMan.4320:

Stormleaf.1769:

BloodFallsSilent.1703:

Instead, you’ve never gotten another dime from me, beyond the initial purchases. Every time I have been tempted to buy gems, I think about how greedy it felt during the 2012 halloween event when the BL Chest drop rate for the halloween weapons was stupendously low. I remember all the content that was removed. I think about all the minor (unvoiced by me, but pointed out many times here by others) complaints I’ve had that were never fixed, and the fact that there is not going to be any expansion any time soon, when it should have been here or have been announced, at the least.

Posts like this are always so bizarre and disingenuous, specifically for the argument here (which always seems to come about in some way or another). You’re saying you’ve been tempted to buy gems, but refrained because of a previous complaint, which ArenaNet has massively improved at this point? Gem store weapons like the Halloween set have been made hugely more accessible, yet you still refuse to buy any because they used to be a problem? Why should ArenaNet ever address any of your concerns, if you’re just going to cling to past issues as an excuse to criticize them in the future, even after those issues have been fixed and improved?

For all your complaints, you sound like the type of person who will never be satisfied, no matter how close ArenaNet manages to bring the game to your ideal fantasy.

Most of his critiques are about the game itself, not the gem store that you used the fanboi generic response on after focusing in on it.

That sole example is enough demonstrate the disingenuous nature of this post. The poster prefaces by claiming to have ‘goodwill’ towards the game and wanting the opportunity to support the game, yet they then refuse to genuinely acknowledge any improvements that have been made to it. The poster clings to past ‘offenses’ while completely disregarding any attempt by ArenaNet to address and correct those issues, simply so he or she can continue to deride and insult the game and its developer for failing to live up to a personal fantasy. Someone who truly had ‘goodwill’ towards the game, someone who truly wanted to support the game and see it improve, would at least be somewhat forgiving, at least acknowledge the efforts to address some of their complaints. But no, what we see instead is petty, unhelpful venting.

You would think someone who claims to have so much experience with past MMOs and other games would possess the discipline to not let themselves get so hyped about their fantasy for a game. So hyped that its inevitable failure to live up to expectations crushes them to the point of such shallow, one-sided whining. You would think that someone with such experience would know to play a game for what it is in the present, not what they want it to be in the future. You would think that someone who had such a bad taste with the gem store methods two months after launch would know to quit back then, rather than stick around for an extra year and a half playing a game that so obviously failed to live up to expectations.

Stormleaf.1769:

snip

Care to add anything to specific gameplay/game environment issues he raised rather than attacking his post? If you truly believe the living story adds “Exciting, quality, dynamic content that delivers persistent changes in the world based on the choices players make”, instead of just a grind of recycled combat and art in order to get a cosmetic achievement chest and sell gems for gem store skins that last longer than the content, say so, instead of stooping to long-winded attacks.

Stormleaf.1769:

TheLaughingMan.4320:

Stormleaf.1769:

BloodFallsSilent.1703:

Instead, you’ve never gotten another dime from me, beyond the initial purchases. Every time I have been tempted to buy gems, I think about how greedy it felt during the 2012 halloween event when the BL Chest drop rate for the halloween weapons was stupendously low. I remember all the content that was removed. I think about all the minor (unvoiced by me, but pointed out many times here by others) complaints I’ve had that were never fixed, and the fact that there is not going to be any expansion any time soon, when it should have been here or have been announced, at the least.

Posts like this are always so bizarre and disingenuous, specifically for the argument here (which always seems to come about in some way or another). You’re saying you’ve been tempted to buy gems, but refrained because of a previous complaint, which ArenaNet has massively improved at this point? Gem store weapons like the Halloween set have been made hugely more accessible, yet you still refuse to buy any because they used to be a problem? Why should ArenaNet ever address any of your concerns, if you’re just going to cling to past issues as an excuse to criticize them in the future, even after those issues have been fixed and improved?

For all your complaints, you sound like the type of person who will never be satisfied, no matter how close ArenaNet manages to bring the game to your ideal fantasy.

Most of his critiques are about the game itself, not the gem store that you used the fanboi generic response on after focusing in on it.

That sole example is enough demonstrate the disingenuous nature of this post. The poster prefaces by claiming to have ‘goodwill’ towards the game and wanting the opportunity to support the game, yet they then refuse to genuinely acknowledge any improvements that have been made to it. The poster clings to past ‘offenses’ while completely disregarding any attempt by ArenaNet to address and correct those issues, simply so he or she can continue to deride and insult the game and its developer for failing to live up to a personal fantasy. Someone who truly had ‘goodwill’ towards the game, someone who truly wanted to support the game and see it improve, would at least be somewhat forgiving, at least acknowledge the efforts to address some of their complaints. But no, what we see instead is petty, unhelpful venting.

You would think someone who claims to have so much experience with past MMOs and other games would possess the discipline to not let themselves get so hyped about their fantasy for a game. So hyped that its inevitable failure to live up to expectations crushes them to the point of such shallow, one-sided whining. You would think that someone with such experience would know to play a game for what it is in the present, not what they want it to be in the future. You would think that someone who had such a bad taste with the gem store methods two months after launch would know to quit back then, rather than stick around for an extra year and a half playing a game that so obviously failed to live up to expectations.

Why should he be forgiving to ANET if he doesn’t like the changes they’ve made in the game? They haven’t really tried that hard in fixing all the problems that people have had, since there are still issues that have been going on since launch that are yet to be addressed. They had topics on forums asking for input about sigils and runes and didn’t use a single idea expressed from fans.

Its almost been 2 years since launch, and my main char still has a glitched story event that I stopped trying to get past because it was irritating not being able to progress ( I reported the bug and haven’t heard anything back about it).

I didn’t take the OP’s post as slamming GW2 and calling it the worst game ever. I think hes entitled to be disappointed and he didn’t seem to be over the top with anything.

And people can still play a game despite them being disappointed in it.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Clear, direct and well written.

Stormleaf.1769:

TheLaughingMan.4320:

Stormleaf.1769:

BloodFallsSilent.1703:

Instead, you’ve never gotten another dime from me, beyond the initial purchases. Every time I have been tempted to buy gems, I think about how greedy it felt during the 2012 halloween event when the BL Chest drop rate for the halloween weapons was stupendously low. I remember all the content that was removed. I think about all the minor (unvoiced by me, but pointed out many times here by others) complaints I’ve had that were never fixed, and the fact that there is not going to be any expansion any time soon, when it should have been here or have been announced, at the least.

Posts like this are always so bizarre and disingenuous, specifically for the argument here (which always seems to come about in some way or another). You’re saying you’ve been tempted to buy gems, but refrained because of a previous complaint, which ArenaNet has massively improved at this point? Gem store weapons like the Halloween set have been made hugely more accessible, yet you still refuse to buy any because they used to be a problem? Why should ArenaNet ever address any of your concerns, if you’re just going to cling to past issues as an excuse to criticize them in the future, even after those issues have been fixed and improved?

For all your complaints, you sound like the type of person who will never be satisfied, no matter how close ArenaNet manages to bring the game to your ideal fantasy.

Most of his critiques are about the game itself, not the gem store that you used the fanboi generic response on after focusing in on it.

That sole example is enough demonstrate the disingenuous nature of this post. The poster prefaces by claiming to have ‘goodwill’ towards the game and wanting the opportunity to support the game, yet they then refuse to genuinely acknowledge any improvements that have been made to it. The poster clings to past ‘offenses’ while completely disregarding any attempt by ArenaNet to address and correct those issues, simply so he or she can continue to deride and insult the game and its developer for failing to live up to a personal fantasy. Someone who truly had ‘goodwill’ towards the game, someone who truly wanted to support the game and see it improve, would at least be somewhat forgiving, at least acknowledge the efforts to address some of their complaints. But no, what we see instead is petty, unhelpful venting.

You would think someone who claims to have so much experience with past MMOs and other games would possess the discipline to not let themselves get so hyped about their fantasy for a game. So hyped that its inevitable failure to live up to expectations crushes them to the point of such shallow, one-sided whining. You would think that someone with such experience would know to play a game for what it is in the present, not what they want it to be in the future. You would think that someone who had such a bad taste with the gem store methods two months after launch would know to quit back then, rather than stick around for an extra year and a half playing a game that so obviously failed to live up to expectations.

The OP paid for the game which is a sequel to his/her favorite MMO and you expect a loyal fan to quit after 2 months?

I’ve been playing up this game the whole time and have made many of these same comments over the last 1.5 years. Let me remind you what was said in response to critiques about GW2 a few months, hell even a year after launch:

1. No MMO is fully ready to go at launch give Anet time.
2. This isn’t WoW we love Anet.
3. They will add all of those things later they already promised.

So the OP waited for 1.5 years to write this do you think its too soon? Maybe wait another 2 years then it would OK to post.

TheLaughingMan.4320:

Especially now that they are removing dyes from loot tables.

They know dyes are popular items, they are trying to steer players towards the gem store to buy rng dye packs.

It’s either that or end up spending a fortune even on common dyes (prices are only going to go up), or spend a fortune on the mats to make “Unidentified X Dye” as a chef. The mats for those recipes will shoot up in price, too.

There’s been an oversaturation of dyes in the market for the longest time, and said market continually crashes. I don’t see how anything has changed, you can still purchase the colors you want for cheap on the TP in the biggest majority of cases.

medohgeuh.4650:

TheLaughingMan.4320:

Especially now that they are removing dyes from loot tables.

They know dyes are popular items, they are trying to steer players towards the gem store to buy rng dye packs.

It’s either that or end up spending a fortune even on common dyes (prices are only going to go up), or spend a fortune on the mats to make “Unidentified X Dye” as a chef. The mats for those recipes will shoot up in price, too.

There’s been an oversaturation of dyes in the market for the longest time, and said market continually crashes. I don’t see how anything has changed, you can still purchase the colors you want for cheap on the TP in the biggest majority of cases.

Common dyes went from 80 bronze to 15 silver in a very short timespan when it was announced that dyes would no longer drop. Not because those dyes are in demand, but because they were a way to roll for a new dye of a potentially higher grade.

As times goes on and players have extremely limited ways to get new dyes other than trading post or gem store, prices will go up even further on trading post.

This will result in some players either buying gems to buy dye packs, or buying gems to convert into gold to buy Abyss.

The rest of the players that do not have X dye, and are unwilling or unable to buy gems, will have to settle. It will create another divide in the game between players who are willing to buy gems, and those who aren’t. New players getting into the game will struggle to get a decent dye collection.

Anet could have simply lowered the drop rate, instead of removing them, if they were worried about oversaturation. Instead, they turned the tap off all together.

100% agree. This is the exact feeling I had when logging in. I had a half-hope the patch would actually change things. So hyped! For months now! But nothing. Nothing new. Just basic QoL improvements that should have been in a year ago and PVP balance changes to a near-dead PVP population.

Too little, too late. That pretty much sums it up for me. I used to spend a good $50 a month on gems, sometimes more. Always hoping that maybe next time we’d get new content, or maybe the patch after next week’s will give us enough to warrant spending the money. But nope, never happened.

Taking my money and going to try other MMO’s. ESO is just out so far it’s fun. Two guilds I was part of, +200 people combined, have left GW2 and are now in ESO. I’ll be going too.

TheLaughingMan.4320:

Common dyes went from 80 bronze to 15 silver in a very short timespan. Not because those dyes are in demand, but because they are a way to roll for a new dye.

Please log on because all those commons are back to copper again.

medohgeuh.4650:

TheLaughingMan.4320:

Common dyes went from 80 bronze to 15 silver in a very short timespan. Not because those dyes are in demand, but because they are a way to roll for a new dye.

Please log on because all those commons are back to copper again.

Thats not going to last. Abyss dye dropped to 16 gold and is already back to 20-25 gold.

Some of the cheap dyes no one is crazy about will still be cheap but many of the nicer ones or unique ones will just go up since they removed the easier ways to obtain them.

After this week, there are going to be even less Abyss dyes hitting the market, which will mean they will just climb in price.

Who says it’s not going to last? With account bound now in effect, dyes are significantly devalued. Prices will continue to settle in the player’s favor aside from the rarest and most exclusive colors, but that’s never been different from any other time in the game’s lifespan.

My sentiments exactly BFS. I used to be a most fervent supporter of this game, forgiving so much out of sheer nostalgia. But those days are long gone now.

I’ve been bored out of my wit for a long time, hardly forking over any cash at all any more. What’s the point when there’s nothing to do? I barely logged in to kill Scarlet, and that was only because it felt I should finish what I’ve been slugging through all this time, not out of excitement.

I haven’t even logged in for this patch either. It really doesn’t interest me at all, in fact I’m more annoyed that when I finally do log in, I’ll have to go and redo all my characters’ gear because of these pointless changes.

But I digress. Since I don’t pay any subscription fees, I’ll just let it sit there until there’s something refreshing to experience. If that never comes, then so be it I suppose.

medohgeuh.4650:

Who says it’s not going to last? With account bound now in effect, dyes are significantly devalued. Prices will continue to settle in the player’s favor aside from the rarest and most exclusive colors, but that’s never been different from any other time in the game’s lifespan.

No, cheap dyes are devalued. Abyss and Celestial will still be valued, just like the rare gem store ones, otherwise those would have taken a dive.

If anything, the demand will still remain constant for them thanks to new players and people who at the time couldn’t afford to blow 20-40 gold per character for a color but could do it for an account effect.

medohgeuh.4650:

Who says it’s not going to last? With account bound now in effect, dyes are significantly devalued. Prices will continue to settle in the player’s favor aside from the rarest and most exclusive colors, but that’s never been different from any other time in the game’s lifespan.

This would be true if the supply of dye continued to flow at the rates it did before they removed dye from the loot tables. The supply will drop to extremely low levels, especially after the existing stocks on tp are bought without being replaced anywhere near the speed they are being removed from tp. The demand will still be there.

Sekhmet.6153:

Why should he be forgiving to ANET if he doesn’t like the changes they’ve made in the game? They haven’t really tried that hard in fixing all the problems that people have had, since there are still issues that have been going on since launch that are yet to be addressed. They had topics on forums asking for input about sigils and runes and didn’t use a single idea expressed from fans.

Its almost been 2 years since launch, and my main char still has a glitched story event that I stopped trying to get past because it was irritating not being able to progress ( I reported the bug and haven’t heard anything back about it).

I didn’t take the OP’s post as slamming GW2 and calling it the worst game ever. I think hes entitled to be disappointed and he didn’t seem to be over the top with anything.

And people can still play a game despite them being disappointed in it.

It’s an MMO. There are always a huge number of issues… and you know what? MMO players have wildly different viewpoints and desires. No matter how many issues they ‘fix’, just as many will pop up for people who desire the opposite (and sure, this doesn’t really apply to a bugged story mission; I agree that that’s probably lame for everyone, but I’m not saying the game is perfect). They may not have gotten everything right, but they are clearly trying to make the game better for players. If you honestly think the game has barely improved at all since launch, you either haven’t been paying attention, or you’re foolishly assigning your own individual fantasy for a ‘perfect game’ to the entire community and assuming everyone else shares your views. Furthermore, if you do feel that it’s still terrible, why are you still here? After a year and a half of disappointment, why are such people still giving the game a chance? Are they so masochistic that they’ll endure the misery of a bad game just so they can whine to a screen?

Even beside that, the post reeks of contradictions. The poster lists “family friendly” art style as a negative, yet they seem to think highly enough of WoW to ‘threaten’ to return to it? A game with an even more ridiculous and cartoony art style? Story seems to be another complaint, and still, they mention WoW again? A game whose story is so utterly generic that it literally rehashes the same, tired “hero being corrupted into villain” trope over and over? There are numerous other examples, but that should get the point across.

Furthermore, the game doesn’t ‘need’ anything. People who claim that the game needs ‘huge reworkings’ more commonly mean to say: “In order for the game to meet my own personal fantasy, it must do so and so, even at the expense of sacrificing its own vision and integrity. If it doesn’t, it is a terrible game.” And you know, for people like that, the game probably is terrible. But that just brings up my earlier question. If they feel the game is terrible, why do they continue playing? Why do they pour ‘1000+’ hours into a game they view so negatively? Why do they not simply move on? It is beyond foolish to play a game that is currently terrible, simply because you believe it is the duty of the developers to change everything just to fit your individual ideal of a ‘perfect game’. Play the game for what it is, because it’s unfair to demand sweeping overhauls with such absolute and self-righteous language, unfair to speak for anyone other than yourself, simply because you want the game to be something that it currently isn’t.

Of course, I’m drifting into topics that apply to the forum community as a whole, rather than just this individual post… but I think my point still applies in more ways than one.

There will still be plenty of people using unidentified dyes, replenishing the supply. Only one method of acquiring dyes has been removed.

It’s not as big of a deal as you guys are making it out to be, but I suppose that’s par for the course around these forums.

medohgeuh.4650:

There will still be plenty of people using unidentified dyes, replenishing the supply. Only one method of acquiring dyes has been removed.

It’s not as big of a deal as you guys are making it out to be, but I suppose that’s par for the course around these forums.

Replenishing for a short amount of time, then no more. Dyes have effectively become oil, in that although there may be large stockpiles now, once those stockpiles are gone, there will not be new stockpiles being dropped by monsters to replace them.

The only other ways to get new units of dyes now are through using existing stockpiles of now-discontinued PvP reward to craft unid dyes, that will run out too, or through sporadic “rewards” where you get one from a personal story quest completion for example. Those will be limited and strung out as well. You could also craft Unid X Dye using Chef, however the mats for those recipes, once the dye stockpiles trickle out, will rise in price as well.

This is a 6 month view rather than looking at the state of things today and extrapolating that to the future, the game has changed. The vast majority of dyes for sale were drops, and now new units cannot be acquired through that method anymore. Stockpiles will run out eventually, and when that happens, prices will inevitably rise.

Anet was competing against themselves anyways by selling dye packs in the gemstore, and then allowing monsters to drop unid’d dyes, it was only a matter of time before they decided to monatize them like this.

I didn’t like this thread’s OP, but that’s because I agreed with so many points that were made in it sadly. :/

TheLaughingMan.4320:

Replenishing for a short amount of time, then no more. Dyes have effectively become oil, in that although there may be large stockpiles now, once those stockpiles are gone, there will not be new stockpiles being dropped by monsters to replace them.

Anet was competing against themselves anyways by selling dye packs in the gemstore, and then allowing monsters to drop unid’d dyes, it was only a matter of time before they decided to monatize them like this.

… you do know that chefs can create unidentified dyes, right?

Stormleaf.1769:

Sekhmet.6153:

Why should he be forgiving to ANET if he doesn’t like the changes they’ve made in the game? They haven’t really tried that hard in fixing all the problems that people have had, since there are still issues that have been going on since launch that are yet to be addressed. They had topics on forums asking for input about sigils and runes and didn’t use a single idea expressed from fans.

Its almost been 2 years since launch, and my main char still has a glitched story event that I stopped trying to get past because it was irritating not being able to progress ( I reported the bug and haven’t heard anything back about it).

I didn’t take the OP’s post as slamming GW2 and calling it the worst game ever. I think hes entitled to be disappointed and he didn’t seem to be over the top with anything.

And people can still play a game despite them being disappointed in it.

It’s an MMO. There are always a huge number of issues… and you know what? MMO players have wildly different viewpoints and desires. No matter how many issues they ‘fix’, just as many will pop up for people who desire the opposite (and sure, this doesn’t really apply to a bugged story mission; I agree that that’s probably lame for everyone, but I’m not saying the game is perfect). They may not have gotten everything right, but they are clearly trying to make the game better for players. If you honestly think the game has barely improved at all since launch, you either haven’t been paying attention, or you’re foolishly assigning your own individual fantasy for a ‘perfect game’ to the entire community and assuming everyone else shares your views. Furthermore, if you do feel that it’s still terrible, why are you still here? After a year and a half of disappointment, why are such people still giving the game a chance? Are they so masochistic that they’ll endure the misery of a bad game just so they can whine to a screen?

Even beside that, the post reeks of contradictions. The poster lists “family friendly” art style as a negative, yet they seem to think highly enough of WoW to ‘threaten’ to return to it? A game with an even more ridiculous and cartoony art style? Story seems to be another complaint, and still, they mention WoW again? A game whose story is so utterly generic that it literally rehashes the same, tired “hero being corrupted into villain” trope over and over? There are numerous other examples, but that should get the point across.

Furthermore, the game doesn’t ‘need’ anything. People who claim that the game needs ‘huge reworkings’ more commonly mean to say: “In order for the game to meet my own personal fantasy, it must do so and so, even at the expense of sacrificing its own vision and integrity. If it doesn’t, it is a terrible game.” And you know, for people like that, the game probably is terrible. But that just brings up my earlier question. If they feel the game is terrible, why do they continue playing? Why do they pour ‘1000+’ hours into a game they view so negatively? Why do they not simply move on? It is beyond foolish to play a game that is currently terrible, simply because you believe it is the duty of the developers to change everything just to fit your individual ideal of a ‘perfect game’. Play the game for what it is, because it’s unfair to demand sweeping overhauls with such absolute and self-righteous language, unfair to speak for anyone other than yourself, simply because you want the game to be something that it currently isn’t.

Of course, I’m drifting into topics that apply to the forum community as a whole, rather than just this individual post… but I think my point still applies in more ways than one.

I’d figure that someone on TC would know the answer to the “Why would people who dislike the game keep logging on?” question. The answer is the community, which Anet has just done irreparable damage to. Even if it’s not a server-wide community that keeps people coming back, it’s the smaller communities within the guilds. The maps where the megaserver system has been introduced has even scattered guildmates.

medohgeuh.4650:

TheLaughingMan.4320:

Replenishing for a short amount of time, then no more. Dyes have effectively become oil, in that although there may be large stockpiles now, once those stockpiles are gone, there will not be new stockpiles being dropped by monsters to replace them.

Anet was competing against themselves anyways by selling dye packs in the gemstore, and then allowing monsters to drop unid’d dyes, it was only a matter of time before they decided to monatize them like this.

… you do know that chefs can create unidentified dyes, right?

And what do you think will happen to the mat prices for 375/400 tier dye recipes once the stockpiles are gone?

“The only other ways to get new units of dyes now are through using existing stockpiles of now-discontinued PvP reward to craft unid dyes, that will run out too, or through sporadic “rewards” where you get one from a personal story quest completion for example. Those will be limited and strung out as well. You could also craft Unid X Dye using Chef, however the mats for those recipes, once the dye stockpiles trickle out, will rise in price as well.

This is a 6 month view rather than looking at the state of things today and extrapolating that to the future, the game has changed. The vast majority of dyes for sale were drops, and now new units cannot be acquired through that method anymore. Stockpiles will run out eventually, and when that happens, prices will inevitably rise."

Well said OP, very well said. Anet could seriously create hype out of thin air. I am disgusted by the lack of new content, the living world concept, the lack of attention given to WvW etc…

This “feature”(lol) patch is not a feature patch, just some QoL stuff that we should have had a long time ago and i don’t like most of the changes, but you explained it better than i would.

BloodFallsSilent you post was so full of win
that I even bothered to login of this forum to give you a +1

I feel the same way you do. I wont probably play gw2 again until they release an expansion that will be worth it (guild halls, end game, real PvP). No pre-purchase for sure…

TheLaughingMan.4320:

And what do you think will happen to the mat prices for 375/400 tier dye recipes once the stockpiles are gone?

Nothing, because people are always harvesting and selling mats on the TP.

All the hints were that we would have a big improvement with this update.I now feel completely kittened over.Choice has shrunk further. What the kitten does “grandfathered into the system mean”?Where did my town clothes go?What happened to the shiny reward skins I had?As far as I can tell its all been deleted.To me it means I seem to have been kitten on from a great height.Improvement?kitten.

Purple Miku.7032:

I didn’t like this thread’s OP, but that’s because I agreed with so many points that were made in it sadly. :/

This :/

Mr Bimble.2764:

All the hints were that we would have a big improvement with this update

Really? I would say all the hints were against it. The way they were hyping trivial changes, even using the same change multiple times to add “body” to their blogs was a clear sign to me that this would be a pointless update.

They totally lived up to my expectations.

medohgeuh.4650:

TheLaughingMan.4320:

And what do you think will happen to the mat prices for 375/400 tier dye recipes once the stockpiles are gone?

Nothing, because people are always harvesting and selling mats on the TP.

There was a scenario several months ago were you could spend, say 5 copper, on certain crafting material, in order to craft low grade tuning crystals in bulk and sell them in bulk to a vendors for 7c for a profit.

The demand shot up for those materials as people were putting in trade offers for thousands of them, and inevitably the prices rose, so you could not get them for 5c anymore. They rose to the level of demand for the crafted product.

That is what happens when materials suddenly can be used to make something valuable, their price will rise, close to the price of the final result.

In this case, the prices of the mats will inevitably be tied to the price of the resulting product, the Unid X Dye. This is how economies work.

at first i though you are quitting, and wanted to reply: " can i have your stuff?"
then i read all three posts, and i still have no idea what your point is.

so please post a TLDR.
or i will think it is “i don’t work so i can play everyday, i played this game everyday for three years and i am burned out. the latest patch haven’t returned the MMO bliss that i had when i first played DAOC, WOW, EQ1, GW1, runescape fifteen years ago etc etc, therefore i quit.”

and I will reply with "can i have your stuff? "

P.S.
on more serious note, there is nothing to play today except gw2.
yes, it is sad.
not wildstar nor ESO will satisfy you. WOW is trash don’t even bother with it.
from time to time i try to play different MMO, and i always find myself comparing them to GW2. they are always inferior to GW2 in some way…
then i come back.

our only hope is if SOE will make EQN up to its hype.