Guild Wars 2

As many people know, many classes aren’t getting enough attention on commonly complained aspects. I think I may have found how Anet balances the classes in the game.

They balance them based on sPvP. In sPvP it is all about point control, and if you go into sPvP commonly complained about classes in WvW aren’t a problem. Engineers rock at point control, thiefs aren’t too bad, the whole game seems pretty well…balanced. Sadly this creates a lot of problems because WvW and sPvP are vastly different, and also explains some of the interesting choices Anet makes in their balancing. Take engineers for example.
They are the least played classes, they get nerfed almost every patch, and many of the skills seem useless. However if you take the class, remove PvE and WvW, it is actually quite good in sPvP. Think about how grenades kept getting nerfed. It was because they were…good in sPvP. They could damage everything on a single point. This is the same with the 100nade build, which was recently nerfed. Gadgets are actually pretty good with point control, same with turrets (though they are still pretty moderate/bad).

The same goes with rangers, although their dps may seem poor in PvE and WvW, they have great point control. Some of the best bunker builds are rangers. A trap ranger can easily shut down a point and do great damage to everything inside of it.

Thiefs are also commonly complained about. In sPvP however they are not too big of an issue. With no culling, small battles (so you’re not getting CC’ed spammed) it is pretty easy to fight against them.

Just a theory I came up with, discuss? Is this a good or bad concept? Since PvE, WvW, and sPvP are so vastly different, should Anet make specific balances for each mode, rather than cross mode balances?

If mesmers have learnt one thing, than fearing the next patch day.
As a PvE mesmer, patch days often result in painful nerfs, as a result of the kitten PvP whiners. Not that mesmers were a strong PvE class at any time to begin with.
Now PvE mesmers are limited to very few working trait/weapon setups, but honestly, variety looks different…

The thing is they are cutting the game in 1/2 the sPvP part and the pve/wvw part. So i am not sure if your idea holds up so much any more. In truth GW2 is and was made to be 2 games in one sPvP where its more on the skill of one player and or small teams where ever one is on a mostly even playing field and PvE where every one can play story in there own way with the WvW system that is a pvp that is not on an even playing field where big teams are the more important type of play.
WvW is made to be “unfair” a level 10 who scaled up to 80 has no hope betting a level 10+ or up its more about team work on a large scale of things and to give ppl that feeling of “this is my world here me roar” etc…
As for the PvE part there is a high punishment for over specialization. Its more about every one doing all the jobs that you can think of and all the things needed to be done in a fight. Its a pure small scale team work and no one person should be building in such a way to out shin the others. The best example is some one going all out condition giving up every thing for max condition dmg. By doing this they kitten there team mates own condition dmg out put and you kitten your ability to do other things then just dmg. Every one is a support every one is dmg every one is a tank this is the truth of this game. Just one class type in pve the team mate.

They go cross-mode to make the format transition easier. If they split skills, and among three formats, you would have to learn 24 ‘professions’ rather than the real 8.

Balancing stuff with sPvP in mind actually makes most sense, too.
Everything works in open PvE, period. Get your gear, learn mechanics, make use of resources and you can breeze through open PvE with anything; heck, you can even autoattack most of the time.
Dungeons? That should be about team builds and coordination. Dungeons were already dumbed down and almost all of them are easily doable with any pugs, while at the beginning they were supposed to be there for some more organised PvE groups.
WvW? It’s mostly about wise use of siege weaponry, sieging and being sieged, as well as open group fights. Sure, there are people who will roam, but if you want to roam, set up a toon that has builds good enough for it. Keep in mind, too, that by design WvW is not about solo roaming, dueling or GvG at the southern camp. You can do those things, but the game won’t be balanced with them in mind.

That’s about your idea of how the balancing works. That said, there is no balance out there at the moment – mesmers rule supreme in both PvP formats, and warriors steamroll through PvE – but every team can get the job done, except for several spots in the game that are being worked on (i don’t imagine 5 necros getting through Arah 4, sorry). A 10man ranger party can be deadly in WvW – you still have a variety of builds, and synergy and coordination are much more important in this format than just your own build.

Skills SHOULD be split beetween pvp and pve (wvw is pve). Thats how it worked in gw1, and without trinity its virtually impossible to balance the game to accomplish everything at the same time.

I don’t really think peoples brain will explode if a skill had 900 damage in a format and 1100 in the other, or lasted 2 seconds longer.

Deified.7520:

Just a theory I came up with, discuss? Is this a good or bad concept? Since PvE, WvW, and sPvP are so vastly different, should Anet make specific balances for each mode, rather than cross mode balances?

In case you didn’t notice, they already balance differently in each mode.

Evasive Arcana: The spell cast while in water attunement has been split between PvE and PvP. This spell’s effectiveness with the healing attribute has been reduced by 50% while in PvP.

as the latest example.

If they buff/nerf something across all modes, it’s probably because it’s just as silly across all modes.

Aegis: any time i am fighting another player is pvp. WvW is pvp.

Also, the ‘game being balanced around point control’ makes a lot of sense; it’s just a shame that point control is largely ireleveant in every other game mode.

Seems to be largely echoing what i have been saying since launch. Hell, i swear there was a ANet statement around launch time that confirmed that the balance focus was SPVP with WVW as a distant third.

And this is why healing and such is so kittenty, as making them workable for PVE (in that you can use a healing focused build to sustain against a group of mobs) would make for impenetrable point holding bunkers in SPVP.

There was an example of that during BWE1, where someone built a necromancer to be borderline unkillable unless the whole opposing team focused everything they had on that one individual. end result is that PVE necromancer is a mess.

It took them years to figure out that same skill for pvp and pve dont work in GW1,
seems like they will take years again to learn what they already know.

Yeah it’s pretty tiresome too.

Tired of them balancing based on what’s good for standing in a circle or getting people to not stand in a circle.

I agree, they seem to balance exclusively around sPvP and it drives me crazy. I have never played a single match of sPvP and it’s so disheartening when I get PvE nerfs because of something I have never done. Honestly, I wish sPvP wasn’t even in the game. It’s already a completely separate game from the rest of GW2 but it ends up hurting PvE.

But ANet made three game modes, and it’s their responsibility to try and balance all three of them.

drkn.3429:

Everything works in open PvE, period. Get your gear, learn mechanics, make use of resources and you can breeze through open PvE with anything; heck, you can even autoattack most of the time.

That isn’t really true. At best it’s very misleading. Sure, you might by able to “get by” with certain abilities if you really loved them… but it would be rough and you would be seriously gimping yourself. I play an Engineer, and despite the fact that I think turrets are cool they are objectively very weak.

And more importantly, why should any open PvE player have to just “get by” with weak abilities because some guy in a completely separate game was apparently OP? Why design two separate games but make them share a ruleset?

I do hope that it is possible and that they will, at some point, split the classes between PvE and PvP, with the same abilities being tweaked accordingly for each of the two.

drkn.3429:

Keep in mind, too, that by design WvW is not about solo roaming, dueling or GvG at the southern camp. You can do those things, but the game won’t be balanced with them in mind.

well then i guess that settles that. it’s totally fair to have 3 classes utterly dominate every other class.

it needs to be balanced badly. idc if it was meant for zerging there’s still lots of small fights and lots of players getting beat down for no reason.

Engineers and Necros are both good at point control, in fact I think when it comes to bunker builds engineers and Necromancers are about where a bunker should be. They can still win a prolonged 1v1, or they can hold a point 1v2 or 1v3 for enough time to deny the enemy team a bunch of points, and make a big difference. But they aren’t so powerful that you absolutely have to have a bunker-centric team to win against one.

But then there is the Ele and the Guardian, who have bunker builds that can stretch out a 1v3 to last forever without ever dying or giving up the point. And can pretty much singlehandedly stymie a game. Nobody is going to play a balanced bunker when they can play an OP one.

If they’re going to make every PvP map about map control, this is the first imbalance they need to rectify. And they just need to admit that WvW, PvE, and PvP are going to require different balancing on a lot (if not all) skills.

I have a slightly different theory, it begins with “I” ends in “Y” and has a “Z” or two in the middle.

I don’t know if it’s the circle of people i hang out with in game, and our guild has 500 players but i’ve never met a person that plays sPvP ever in game…

Dante.1508:

I don’t know if it’s the circle of people i hang out with in game, and our guild has 500 players but i’ve never met a person that plays sPvP ever in game…

Yep, and this is just one more reason why it is frustrating. They focus all their balance around a gamemode that most people never even participate in.

Fidjit.4162:

Dante.1508:

I don’t know if it’s the circle of people i hang out with in game, and our guild has 500 players but i’ve never met a person that plays sPvP ever in game…

Yep, and this is just one more reason why it is frustrating. They focus all their balance around a gamemode that most people never even participate in.

Best guess some high up at ANet still think they can turn SPVP into a esport.

Fidjit.4162:

I agree, they seem to balance exclusively around sPvP and it drives me crazy. I have never played a single match of sPvP and it’s so disheartening when I get PvE nerfs because of something I have never done. Honestly, I wish sPvP wasn’t even in the game. It’s already a completely separate game from the rest of GW2 but it ends up hurting PvE.

And more importantly, why should any open PvE player have to just “get by” with weak abilities because some guy in a completely separate game was apparently OP? Why design two separate games but make them share a ruleset?

You pretty much expressed exactly what I think. It is grossly unfair to ruin the PvE players character and game experience just because of PvP.

I wish sPvP wasn’t in the game either. It gets really old to have PvE constantly ruined and skills nerfed because of PvP. And from what I read on these forums, not even a very popular PvP. According to what I read here, not very many people even like sPvP to begin with, yet the PvE game is ruined because of it.

And whoever said WvW was PvE, no, that isn’t right. Whenever you are killing other players, it’s PvP. I don’t know how you got the idea WvW is PvE, but it’s certainly not.

Mesmers have NOTHING to fear we are the most UP (under powered) class in the game. I find my shatter build does NOTHING compared to the severly OP ele who needs to be nerfed into oblivion.