Guild Wars 2

So I have been doing map completion since the patch on my level 80 and have really noticed, especially on the lower level maps the lack of real downscaling. I’m just on my mesmer and I feel like I’m just absolutely obliterating everything. There’s no challenge at all and I actually have to try to contain my damage so my friend is able to tag the mob I’m attacking.

I would really love for there to be some serious downscaling that more accurately reflects what they should be in those lower maps. It would simply make doing map completion and playing with lower level friends a lot more enjoyable. It’s not fun trying to play with a lower level friend and I’m just destroying everything. Even if I take off all my armor and my traits, I still just destroy things.

I enjoy it the way it is. It’s nice to casually run around destroying everything once in a while. There are plenty of options to make it more difficult. If anything, make a new character. If the game is so incredibly easy for you, surely it isn’t difficult to make enough gold to buy another character slot.

One of the advertised perks of the game was not needing to make a new character to play with your lower level friends. The OP should not have to ‘make a new character’ to play with the friend that is leveling. This was the entire point of downscaling.

Obviously it’s never been perfect, since even before the crit normalization, people did not scale down well. Not to mention it was developed with exotic originally being the max tier, and then they threw in ascended. So it really needs some adjustment again. Hopefully, with the normalization of the crit damage stat, they will be better able to address the downscaling issue.

They nerfed the mobs in the lower levels to compensate for the lack of trait points on lower level characters with the new trait system. It doesn’t seem like they have downleveled higher characters to compensate for these weaker mobs ‘cause I’ve noticed the same thing with higher leveled characters one-shotting everything in the low levels. The update broke the balance between higher level characters accompanying lower level friends.

Neural.1824:

I enjoy it the way it is. It’s nice to casually run around destroying everything once in a while. There are plenty of options to make it more difficult. If anything, make a new character. If the game is so incredibly easy for you, surely it isn’t difficult to make enough gold to buy another character slot.

Having to make another character to be able to really play with a friend goes against what downscaling was supposed to do in the first place.

Change your weapon, not your armor. The reason you’re destroying everything is because mobs are balanced around you having a green or yellow-tier weapon at lower levels, not an orange or red one. Mobs in starter zones are meant to be killable with white gear, hence why it’s so easy to massacre them with an ascended weapon.

I do that in Diablo too, if my weapon is too strong for my cheapskate non-RoS friends I just switch back to level 60 gear.

Lazuli.2098:

They nerfed the mobs in the lower levels to compensate for the lack of trait points on lower level characters with the new trait system. It doesn’t seem like they have downleveled higher characters to compensate for these weaker mobs ‘cause I’ve noticed the same thing with higher leveled characters one-shotting everything in the low levels. The update broke the balance between higher level characters accompanying lower level friends.

^ This ^

Without traits on a steady, linear curve, the low zones are far, far too easy for upper level characters, especially geared-out 80s. It’s a secondary disappointment, but a major one.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Change your weapon, not your armor. The reason you’re destroying everything is because mobs are balanced around you having a green or yellow-tier weapon at lower levels, not an orange or red one. Mobs in starter zones are meant to be killable with white gear, hence why it’s so easy to massacre them with an ascended weapon.

I will try to use a low level weapon and see if that helps. I know taking off armor didn’t help.

There’s been a thread on this subject before. There were basically two groups of people:

• those who thought it was boring because it was easy;
• those who thought it would be boring if it wasn’t easy.

You’re in the first group. I’m in the second. You like challenge; I like progression, I like to feel stronger, I like to get lower rewards only for easier tasks.

If they buffed the monsters for 80s, I do not think I would ever finish my map completion.

You can also switch to lower level gear across the board if you want to make it more difficult. I will usually simply not attack so much or with as powerful skills if I don’t want to kill everything before my friends get a chance.

bob.5680:

You can also switch to lower level gear across the board if you want to make it more difficult. I will usually simply not attack so much or with as powerful skills if I don’t want to kill everything before my friends get a chance.

I was curious as to how much of it is gear. It would be interesting to have someone bank their exotic or ascended gear and throw on some blues and greens and head off into the fray.

Additionally, with free on-the-fly resets, it would be easy enough to just ‘drop’ all your assigned trait points, and only use what you’d have available at a given level for a given zone you are trying to do.

The converse is true as well. If I beef up an alt and shower it with yellows, they do much better on level than with blues and greens, which tend to not match a yellow until 5-7 levels later.

It would be an interesting experiment.

I have no idea how relevant this is to the specific problem…but here is my experience.

When leveling a toon, I upgrade gear every 15 levels staying in greens the entire time. What I notice is that…when I begin to approach the next “break point”…say…level 32 or 33; level 47/48…where my gear is designed for characters substantially below where I am, the going gets harder. Even in lower areas, I am not one-shotting things. Once I hit the break point and upgrade my gear…bam…I am now back to very powerful in lower level areas.

Not sure if this adds anything relevant to the conversation…it just does seem to me as if, when looking at the downscaling, gear seems to matter.

notebene.3190:

It would be an interesting experiment.

I don’t know about post-change, but I did this pre-change and it was certainly noticeable; you could still tell there was a difference, but it wasn’t as dramatic … but I play a Thief so I’m the easiest thing on the map to kill in PvE on any given day, too.

It could be great fun, though: If you want to level up with a friend – again – store all your lvl 80 gear, drop your traits, and ditch your high level skills … then “unlock” it all at the same time your friend is.

notebene.3190:

[…]
I was curious as to how much of it is gear. It would be interesting to have someone bank their exotic or ascended gear and throw on some blues and greens and head off into the fray.[…]

Ascended gear has 175% power over basic gear.

Bring only fine or masterwork and you will notice the difference.

I think it’s in large part due to the trait changes, as has been mentioned before.

Downscaling on a level 30 character is far more detrimental than downscaling on a level 80.

Anet has a hard enough time balancing the game at max level. But to have to balance downscaling as well? I don’t think Anet can handle it. One-shotting everything you meet as a downscaled 80 is fun for a bit, but it gets boring really fast.

IMO some of the lower level zones should be converted to Level 80 zones.

Use a low level White Weapon.

Vixena.3821:

So I have been doing map completion since the patch on my level 80 and have really noticed, especially on the lower level maps the lack of real downscaling. I’m just on my mesmer and I feel like I’m just absolutely obliterating everything. There’s no challenge at all and I actually have to try to contain my damage so my friend is able to tag the mob I’m attacking.

I would really love for there to be some serious downscaling that more accurately reflects what they should be in those lower maps. It would simply make doing map completion and playing with lower level friends a lot more enjoyable. It’s not fun trying to play with a lower level friend and I’m just destroying everything. Even if I take off all my armor and my traits, I still just destroy things.

There is. Likely you won’t jump through all the hoops to make it happen but if you’re killing stuff THAT fast you could always get a common weapon for lower levels (still 80 so it’s considerably stronger than starter gear), remove your traits, etc. Realistically the reason downscaling isn’t “true” is because it doesn’t really factor in traits and equipment.

Lishtenbird.2814:

…

If they buffed the monsters for 80s, I do not think I would ever finish my map completion.

If they just put them back to the way they were before the update I’d be happy. With this update I will be accompanying lower level characters in the lower levels less and less. And since I don’t plan to start any more alts (don’t really like the new trait system) I’ll probably play in the low levels only to get 100%.

For instance I took my level 35 mesmer to Wayfarers to 100% it and was able to solo kill a Champion there with no problem. In the past it would take at least 2 and even better with 3 characters to kill it comfortably.

No there doesn’t. There has to be some power curve or, really, whats the kitten point of levelling at all?

It’s fine as is. As stated above you can nerf yourself as you prefer, I’d rather not be nerfed more than I already am thank you very much.

currently, players are downscaled to mob level +1. for example if the mob in the area is lvl 10, the players are scaled down to lvl 11.

with the introduction of megaserver, they should scale the players to mob level -1, and scale the mob strength extra 10% based on the number of surrounding players.

make the strength multiplier 1.10^(N-1) when N is the number of players attacking the mob.

Izdubar.9540:

No there doesn’t. There has to be some power curve or, really, whats the kitten point of levelling at all?

It’s fine as is. As stated above you can nerf yourself as you prefer, I’d rather not be nerfed more than I already am thank you very much.

No, its really not fine. My newbie in just level 14 masterwork Power gear was one shotting everything 2-3 levels above her on critical hits.

And she isn’t even high enough to have any traits yet.

This change doesn’t just affect high level players being scaled down, it affects all players who have even a smidgen of skill (dodging, etc.) and knowledge of gear, even if they are the appropriate level for the content involved.

PvE has just been rendered a faceroll for anyone not wearing bad stats. Yes, you might have some trouble in Vitality gear or whatnot, but that’s all.

Mob nerf + no true downscaling = double wammy for high levels!

Step 1) Improve mob AI (bandit evades, centaur kites, etc. but for some reason no mobs have all of these features in a single mob), and adjust mob stats.
Step 2) Add true downscaling; make it so that a player will face the same difficulty on Queensdale as they will in the Ruins of Orr, and give similar loot.
Step 3) Improve the reliablity of Condition damage in PvE, especially Confusion.

The current system is why we have people getting to level 80 and then whining about how hard PvE is because the level 80 maps are suddenly extremely difficult. A better system would teach them how to handle this the whole game.

@ This and other similar threads…
People keep trying to explain why its bad, stop ignoring them because you think its good. Scaling like this only ruins teamplay and the ability to play with friends. It also makes the world bosses in low level zones barely scale up.

You really think its okay for SB to die in five seconds? Okay, maybe ten if you’re lucky.

Hannelore.8153:

@ This and other similar threads…*
People keep trying to explain why its bad, stop ignoring them because you think its good. Scaling like this only ruins teamplay and the ability to play with friends. It also makes the world bosses in low level zones barely scale up.

And you forget the third problem: people who are actually leveling hardly get any reward for events, because they simply do not do enough damage, due to the one-shorting of the over-leveled persons out there.

The best time I ever had in persistent world while down-leveled was in Fireheart Rise. I fell afoul of 4 or so Charr and an elemental. I took a ton of damage and had to really work to win. Afterwards, as I was thinking about why this experience was so different, I noticed that I was on the edge of two areas of different levels. I was down-leveled, I think to 62, and the mobs were 68.

I’ve been viewing the recent downgrade of mob capabilities as a sign that “the whole game is endgame” is now a thing of the past, like so much else of what drew me to GW2.

Vixena.3821:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Change your weapon, not your armor. The reason you’re destroying everything is because mobs are balanced around you having a green or yellow-tier weapon at lower levels, not an orange or red one. Mobs in starter zones are meant to be killable with white gear, hence why it’s so easy to massacre them with an ascended weapon.

I will try to use a low level weapon and see if that helps. I know taking off armor didn’t help.

Maybe the mobs just don’t wanna fight you because they can see all your wobbly bits cause your naked lol

I’ve seen the lvl 80’s destroying stuff in these area’s too, and it’s one of my major problems with this new mega server. Low level people, (the people meant to be on these maps cause they have no where else to level) are getting less kills and less experience. IMO this patch broke more than it fixed

I do agree with another poster though, sometimes I do like killing things quicker (though not oneshot) but I also don’t like dungeons for the fact that most enemies are sponges and soak up so many hits (to me that isn’t much fun, hammering away at one enemy for ages).

Izdubar.9540:

No there doesn’t. There has to be some power curve or, really, whats the kitten point of levelling at all?

It’s fine as is. As stated above you can nerf yourself as you prefer, I’d rather not be nerfed more than I already am thank you very much.

You’re making it sound like you’re so heavily nerfed if you go to a lower level zone. The problem is… you’re barely nerfed at all so you just faceroll everything like it’s nothing. It’s boring and makes it hard to really play with a low level friend.

Vixena.3821:

Izdubar.9540:

No there doesn’t. There has to be some power curve or, really, whats the kitten point of levelling at all?

It’s fine as is. As stated above you can nerf yourself as you prefer, I’d rather not be nerfed more than I already am thank you very much.

You’re making it sound like you’re so heavily nerfed if you go to a lower level zone. The problem is… you’re barely nerfed at all so you just faceroll everything like it’s nothing. It’s boring and makes it hard to really play with a low level friend.

Problem is, if they make it so that you downscale so much you get rolled people will stop going to the low level zones to help new ppl out, sure you will help a friend out here and there, but you wont actually go back to these zones.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Problem is, if they make it so that you downscale so much you get rolled people will stop going to the low level zones to help new ppl out, sure you will help a friend out here and there, but you wont actually go back to these zones.

It should be downscaled to the point where it’s as evenly level as possible with the current zone. It should not be either too downscaled or not enough. As of right now, it is not even close to enough downscaling.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

One of the advertised perks of the game was not needing to make a new character to play with your lower level friends. The OP should not have to ‘make a new character’ to play with the friend that is leveling. This was the entire point of downscaling.

Obviously it’s never been perfect, since even before the crit normalization, people did not scale down well. Not to mention it was developed with exotic originally being the max tier, and then they threw in ascended. So it really needs some adjustment again. Hopefully, with the normalization of the crit damage stat, they will be better able to address the downscaling issue.

At the extremes ascended doesn’t matter. After the patch I forgot to reset my traits so I was running around on my ele with all my traits and the stat points from traits missing in queensdale. It felt slightly more more difficult than before but there wasn’t really any issue. That was just rare armor(head is exotic), one exotic weapon, one rare weapon and masterwork trinkets.

The change to crit damage actually results in higher crit damage than before the patch in some places so I am not sure how that is going to help. For example right outside of the Black Citadel before the patch my thief’s critical damage gets reduced by 100% so I only get to 150% from the base. Right now It’s only reduced by 40% so I still have 176%

I doubt adjusting the scaling multiplier is going to do much. The difference between killing something in 3 hits and 6 hits is only about a second or two and that isn’t even running with full damage.

Edit: Oh and there is always the “Refund Traits” button.

I disagree, it isn’t really fun.

Instead, there needs to be a herd of mobs(around 7 mobs) roaming around. New and cautious players can avoid these, daring players can fight these.

Players can track these down and kill them.

There is already downscaling.

The downscaling works a lot better when you’re not geared up on exotic or ascended zerker’s gear. Or pure damage gear in general.

Go level with your lowbie friends on your supporty type characters instead of your BiS zerkers.

Onliterating stuff was never my thing.I never liked in WoW ho my lvl 85 could destroy everything in under lvl80.I don’t want GW2 to become the same thing

Personally, I have to disagree.
I want my level to matter and consequently destroy anything with a fingersnap in level 10 zones.
Otherwise, they could just remove all levels all along, since it wouldn’t make a difference between level 80 zones and level 10.

Nilkemia.8507:

There is already downscaling.

And it doesn’t work at all after the stupid ferocity patch, since I’m dealing 5-10 times the damage of a character on that level. That’s just ridiculous and breaks the whole system.

I don’t understand people who think it’s fun to be able to one shot everything at higher level. Downscaling was one of the best innovations in this game because it made the power curve feel more realistic and allowed you to enjoy the entire world at high level by removing backwards gating.

I hope this gets reviewed and fixed. Not a huge fan of the trait changes. The 5 for 1 is fine, but the way they staggered them is very weird. Why not just start giving them at level 12 instead of waiting until 30 and then giving you 2 in the last 4 levels?

They just don’t seem to be very good at comprehensive analysis or big picture thinking.

Izdubar.9540:

No there doesn’t. There has to be some power curve or, really, whats the kitten point of levelling at all?

It’s fine as is. As stated above you can nerf yourself as you prefer, I’d rather not be nerfed more than I already am thank you very much.

There was a power curve, and it was fine as was. Now it is broken.

Take off all of your traits, use blue gear or no gear, don’t use food or oil…

Have your leveling friend use green gear with good runes/sigils, food and oil…

CptAurellian.9537:

Nilkemia.8507:

There is already downscaling.

And it doesn’t work at all after the stupid ferocity patch, since I’m dealing 5-10 times the damage of a character on that level. That’s just ridiculous and breaks the whole system.

Even so, the only place where you’ll be one-shotting anything is if you’re a downscaled 80 in a starter zone hitting lv2 hostiles, or ambient creatures. This really isn’t a big a problem as it’s being made out to be. And, like others have pointed out, you can just switch to weaker weapons if you want to kill things slower.

if you don’t run a full dps set, you shouldn’t oneshot creatures in open world even at lvl 80. many people constantly and unstoppably complain about elitism in dungeons because they can’t use an ineffective weaponset/build without getting called out for it. this is your great chance! use any weapon you like, even if it does considerably less damage than other options.
personally, for some reason I absolutely love mace on guardian. I wouldn’t equip it in dungeons, but in pve nobody cares and I love how it plays (I mean, blocking is already a nice feature on a personal level, but also blocking attacks against your comrades feels great)

Vixena.3821:

So I have been doing map completion since the patch on my level 80 and have really noticed, especially on the lower level maps the lack of real downscaling. I’m just on my mesmer and I feel like I’m just absolutely obliterating everything. There’s no challenge at all and I actually have to try to contain my damage so my friend is able to tag the mob I’m attacking.

I would really love for there to be some serious downscaling that more accurately reflects what they should be in those lower maps. It would simply make doing map completion and playing with lower level friends a lot more enjoyable. It’s not fun trying to play with a lower level friend and I’m just destroying everything. Even if I take off all my armor and my traits, I still just destroy things.

I’m afraid to say it, because I take advantage of this OP-ness to explore and farm stuff I rushed through previously. It won’t hurt my feelings if it stays like it is, but it prolly could use some tweaking.