Guild Wars 2

This game has a lot of redeeming qualities. Unfortunately, it has a lot of faults as well. Fortunately for them, the faults are hushed away and not discovered until after you have purchased the game. I think that’s the reason they won’t do free trials.

Yes, I enjoy many of the aspects that makes this so different from other “traditional” MMORPGs. But it lacks many elements of traditional MMOs that define their longevity.

Why am I leveling to 80? What is there to do? Essentially, the same things there were to do at 30, 40, even 10. Go back and do stuff you didn’t do, explore the map, do lame jump-puzzles, make alts, get achievements. Or I could “grind” dungeons that were sold as being lower level (although nigh-impossible at that actual level) to get cosmetic items.

These things are all icing on the cake and should never be sold as the cake itself!

I’ll admit the 30-60 day cycle of new tier gear from the “other MMO” is very worn and tiresome. But I will agree it at least gives you a reason to play. Playing a game just to “have fun” and pass the time is not my idea of a good game. I hated Mindsweeper and I hate Angry Birds today.

Once you feel like you’ve stopped progressing, why are you sill playing? And yes, I define progress in terms of stats, abilities, gear, etc.

IMHO, without changes to end-game in the near future, I’m afraid GW2 will be remembered for great ideas and concepts, but will have the same low-population problems all too-many other games do before taking down servers.

Playing a game to have fun and pass the time, is preciesly many people’s idea of fun and the premise of the game itself though (and why I play it) and there are plenty who are happy with the end game (I am one of them). The recent statement about a small rise in population showed that they are on the right track, even if there is work to do (which we all acknowledge in some way).

GW1 was awash with threads about it dying away within a year or 2, but anet kept to its plan and an average starting game became poss one of the best mmos ever made.

I think for me, as I said in another thread, it was defined when I went back to LOTRO after its latest update and now they are entriely committed to gear treadmills/speed run instances and not enjoyable content.

I do wish they;d do free trials though – I have plenty of people I know wanting to try the game for themselves rather than rely on my ‘white knighting’ lol

mantis.6459:

Playing a game just to “have fun” and pass the time is not my idea of a good game.

you could’ve simply posted that, it explains everything about your position.

this isn’t the kind of game you’re looking for. I’m sorry if you feel you’ve been “tricked” into buying it.

better luck with your next purchase.

mantis.6459:

This game has a lot of redeeming qualities. Unfortunately, it has a lot of faults as well. Fortunately for them, the faults are hushed away and not discovered until after you have purchased the game. I think that’s the reason they won’t do free trials.

Yes, I enjoy many of the aspects that makes this so different from other “traditional” MMORPGs. But it lacks many elements of traditional MMOs that define their longevity.

Why am I leveling to 80? What is there to do? Essentially, the same things there were to do at 30, 40, even 10. Go back and do stuff you didn’t do, explore the map, do lame jump-puzzles, make alts, get achievements. Or I could “grind” dungeons that were sold as being lower level (although nigh-impossible at that actual level) to get cosmetic items.

These things are all icing on the cake and should never be sold as the cake itself!

I’ll admit the 30-60 day cycle of new tier gear from the “other MMO” is very worn and tiresome. But I will agree it at least gives you a reason to play. Playing a game just to “have fun” and pass the time is not my idea of a good game. I hated Mindsweeper and I hate Angry Birds today.

Once you feel like you’ve stopped progressing, why are you sill playing? And yes, I define progress in terms of stats, abilities, gear, etc.

IMHO, without changes to end-game in the near future, I’m afraid GW2 will be remembered for great ideas and concepts, but will have the same low-population problems all too-many other games do before taking down servers.

You know people are doing things for different ways of enjoyment. I simply don’t care for a statwise progression. I never did tbh in any game. What I really love about THIS particular game is that it takes that way to play serious that it accepts it as an appropriate way to play games and not as a pathetic sidenote during the statgrind.
And THAT is actually what bothers me about ascended gear because I fear that it will push my way to enjoy games more and more in the background. Just my 2 cent.

Not just you, OP. There are a lot of people who have been conditioned into thinking that games without the illusion of progression can’t be fun. A very unfortunate result of a decade of uninspired game design. I’m really sorry for you.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

mantis.6459:

Playing a game just to “have fun” and pass the time is not my idea of a good game.

you could’ve simply posted that, it explains everything about your position.

this isn’t the kind of game you’re looking for. I’m sorry if you feel you’ve been “tricked” into buying it.

better luck with your next purchase.

This. There are so many skinner boxes out there I’m sure you can find your fix somewhere.

mantis.6459:

Playing a game just to “have fun” and pass the time is not my idea of a good game. I hated Mindsweeper and I hate Angry Birds today.

And here I thought this was the very definition of the term ‘game’. I mean, what other purpose to games have but to entertain you for a time until you have other pressing life matters to take care of?

But I do agree, if you don’t find something entertaining and fun, you’re wasting your time trying to waste your time with it. If you need to kill time and you hate minesweeper, you’re wasting your effort with playing it.

Personally, having ran all the dungeons many times, I find it entertaining to run them over and over for the challenge. There doesn’t need to be ‘progress’ (besides getting to the end of the dungeon), but variety and randomness to the encounters themselves would add to the entertainment value from my standpoint.

First of all your sense of a good game seems really kittened up. Im happy im not you :P

But despite this there is plenty to grind for in this game if you want to make it a grind ;p

I’m competitive enough in the real world. I don’t need to get new and better gear all the time in my fantasy world. I want to relax and enjoy myself and explore. If I really wanted to challenge myself, I’d teach today’s kids how to read.

This game won’t be a ghost town because you and players like you don’t like it. It’ll be a popular game with people who want something different from the zillion other games like the ones you want. That’s really the point.

All the games are one way and this game is different. Those who want something different pretty much have one choice.

This game isn’t going anywhere.

I like the icing on the cake best, the more the better ;-)

WvW is your End Game.

GW2 is a working man’s MMO, and in the one or two hour per day I spend on it, I’m having plenty of fun with my small guild. There’s plenty of good MMO’s for people who can afford to spend ten hours or even more per day on a “progression” treadmill.

I always find myself debating between grinding for cash or burning up coins in WvW …… explains why I’m always broke!!

mantis.6459 wrote:

“…Playing a game just to “have fun” and pass the time is not my idea of a good game. ..”

There is just so much wrong with that statement, lol.

mantis.6459:

Playing a game just to “have fun” and pass the time is not my idea of a good game.

Then what is? Why would you ever play a game if not to have fun and pass time in some fashion?

Please don’t take offense to this, but we all know by now that these kinds of threads are not going to go anywhere, get no real red feedback and generally are just going to attract differing opinions which clash.

Hellkaiser.6025:

Please don’t take offense to this, but we all know by now that these kinds of threads are not going to go anywhere, get no real red feedback and generally are just going to attract differing opinions which clash.

Yep. Been tons of these threads since launch. Basically, some people like to just play for fun and others like the illusion of progression. There are different MMOs out there to satisfy both groups. We can peacefully coexist. The end.

Fidjit.4162:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Please don’t take offense to this, but we all know by now that these kinds of threads are not going to go anywhere, get no real red feedback and generally are just going to attract differing opinions which clash.

Yep. Been tons of these threads since launch. Basically, some people like to just play for fun and others like the illusion of progression. There are different MMOs out there to satisfy both groups. We can’t peacefully coexist. The end.

Had to fix that, both groups cannot coexist without major design changes by game developers. And those changes can’t be made until we shove a boot up the publishers rears and tell them to get back in their box and stop directing the games in the way that they seem to be.

Hellkaiser.6025:

Had to fix that, both groups cannot coexist without major design changes by game developers.

Err… yes, they can. Those who like the game keep playing it and those who don’t play something else. Coexisting doesn’t mean forcing your way of thinking onto others.

Hellkaiser.6025:

Had to fix that, both groups cannot coexist without major design changes by game developers. And those changes can’t be made until we shove a boot up the publishers rears and tell them to get back in their box and stop directing the games in the way that they seem to be.

Why not? I don’t mean coexist in the same game, I mean by playing different games. What “major design changes” are you thinking of?

In my opinion GW2 is going to be successful long term by not following the traditional MMO rapid vertical progression gear grind treadmill model. Doing this would put them in direct competition with the other MMOs, including subscription model games that introduce new gear every few months. By staying with a slow (or even non-existant) vertical progression model they appeal to a large market of players who either do not enjoy rapid vertical progression, or are simply tired of that model and would like to try something different.

Isn’t it the same in every mmo ? And slowly they will add more end game content to the game.In all these months i still find to enjoy myself with this game ( other then alot of other mmo’s i tried in the past few years ).On top of that,i just have One character.It’s not that i play 24/7,but when i do log,i still find enough things to keep me busy and to enjoying myself.Also join a guild,get a tight group of people together to always do stuff with,it makes it way more fun and enjoyable.

mantis.6459:

These things are all icing on the cake and should never be sold as the cake itself!

Not to you, maybe, but that’s precisely why I bought the game. And with all due respect, the marketing prior to release discussed all of this and what their planned direction for the game was. Rather than ArenaNet trying to sell you icing as a cake, they said, “We’re selling icing!” and you’re disappointed that what you consider cake wasn’t included by default.

Alloy.2839:

In my opinion GW2 is going to be successful long term by not following the traditional MMO rapid vertical progression gear grind treadmill model. Doing this would put them in direct competition with the other MMOs, including subscription model games that introduce new gear every few months. By staying with a slow (or even non-existant) vertical progression model they appeal to a large market of players who either do not enjoy rapid vertical progression, or are simply tired of that model and would like to try something different.

You mean like fractals? Or Laurals? Or Guild Missions? Or ascended gear in general?

Nope, no treadmill here. Anyone who claims that is clearly wrong for no reason aside from going against glorious Anet design.

Or wait, you’re going to say that ascended gear is completely optional and that you don’t need BiS gear.

Grim.9274:

Alloy.2839:

In my opinion GW2 is going to be successful long term by not following the traditional MMO rapid vertical progression gear grind treadmill model. Doing this would put them in direct competition with the other MMOs, including subscription model games that introduce new gear every few months. By staying with a slow (or even non-existant) vertical progression model they appeal to a large market of players who either do not enjoy rapid vertical progression, or are simply tired of that model and would like to try something different.

You mean like fractals? Or Laurals? Or Guild Missions? Or ascended gear in general?

Nope, no treadmill here. Anyone who claims that is clearly wrong for no reason aside from going against glorious Anet design.

Or wait, you’re going to say that ascended gear is completely optional and that you don’t need BiS gear.

What would you need Ascended gear for besides doing fractals? And since fractals is largely how you get Ascended gear…..what’s the problem?

It’s not that you were tricked it was that you weren’t paying attention. This is EXACTLY how the developers marketed the game for 3 years before launch:

“The whole game is endgame, we don’t believe you should do one thing while leveling and then all of a sudden be thrown into a completely different thing at the end of the game”

Which you are now describing as some sort of trick. In fact is in one of the only games on the market that DOESN’T trick you with some bait and switch when you hit max level.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

mantis.6459:

Playing a game just to “have fun” and pass the time is not my idea of a good game.

you could’ve simply posted that, it explains everything about your position.

That seals the thread.

Though on his defense I have to say GW2 doesn’t provide much fun to those who look for a challenge.
Beside high Fractals everything can be done by a 4 years old kid mashing buttons randomly.
Fun and challenge are strictly tied when talking about videogames; there isn’t one successful game that provides no challenge whatsoever.

Red Falcon.8257:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

mantis.6459:

Playing a game just to “have fun” and pass the time is not my idea of a good game.

you could’ve simply posted that, it explains everything about your position.

That seals the thread.

Though on his defense I have to say GW2 doesn’t provide much fun to those who look for a challenge.
Beside high Fractals everything can be done by a 4 years old kid mashing buttons randomly.
Fun and challenge are strictly tied when talking about videogames; there isn’t one successful game that provides no challenge whatsoever.

Same can be said about just about any MMO out there. Look at WoW for instance, “besides Heroic Raids everything can be done by a 4 year old kid mashing buttons randomly”.

High level fractals and explorable mode dungeons are the challenging content in this game.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

mantis.6459:

Playing a game just to “have fun” and pass the time is not my idea of a good game.

you could’ve simply posted that, it explains everything about your position.

this isn’t the kind of game you’re looking for. I’m sorry if you feel you’ve been “tricked” into buying it.

better luck with your next purchase.

^Pretty much what he said. It’s a game, so the overriding reason you’re playing it is to have fun. That’s what games are for. You’re talking about what motivation is there for you in-game to continue making it fun. And that is all personal preference. Unfortunately for you, Anet’s idea and yours aren’t the same. But you’re in luck. kitten near every other MMORPG out there has got what you want: endless gear grinds, and progression, and stat increases, and bigger numbers, and things to grow your kitten.

Good luck.

Hellkaiser.6025:

Fidjit.4162:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Please don’t take offense to this, but we all know by now that these kinds of threads are not going to go anywhere, get no real red feedback and generally are just going to attract differing opinions which clash.

Yep. Been tons of these threads since launch. Basically, some people like to just play for fun and others like the illusion of progression. There are different MMOs out there to satisfy both groups. We can’t peacefully coexist. The end.

Had to fix that, both groups cannot coexist without major design changes by game developers. And those changes can’t be made until we shove a boot up the publishers rears and tell them to get back in their box and stop directing the games in the way that they seem to be.

There’s more to the gaming landscape than those two (minority) groups. Everyone sees the world as black and white, forgetting the infinite shades of grey that this game is actually geared towards.

Grim.9274:

Alloy.2839:

In my opinion GW2 is going to be successful long term by not following the traditional MMO rapid vertical progression gear grind treadmill model. Doing this would put them in direct competition with the other MMOs, including subscription model games that introduce new gear every few months. By staying with a slow (or even non-existant) vertical progression model they appeal to a large market of players who either do not enjoy rapid vertical progression, or are simply tired of that model and would like to try something different.

You mean like fractals? Or Laurals? Or Guild Missions? Or ascended gear in general?

Nope, no treadmill here. Anyone who claims that is clearly wrong for no reason aside from going against glorious Anet design.

Or wait, you’re going to say that ascended gear is completely optional and that you don’t need BiS gear.

None of the things you listed, with the exception of Fractals, makes for a gear treadmill.

The environment is not increasing to match the power level of ascended gear, and is not even matched for exotics. A treadmill requires that the environment scales with the gear’s power curve.

So anyone who claims otherwise is wrong because of ArenaNet’s design, and there is a very real reason.