Catalyph: spec for condi damage, wait for another condi player to try to explode on you, auto pass condi back to them.
Profit. 
Every condition is fine. It’s just burning that is causing the problem. Look at combat log.
This image courtesy of.. Fortis Arcana (EU TTS Leader).
That’s just insane damage
Thank you John for informing us. I am happy with my mesmer and I just hope no nerf come across mesmer pretty please
Please, for a love of whatever of the GW God’s you choose…get a test server. It is just unacceptable to me personally to see an entire game get unbalanced and the community have to play the waiting game until things are corrected.
This happens, because as bright as the people balancing things are, they simply cannot predict what is going to happen in a mass environment with live players. Can run all the algorithms in the world and that won’t stop a few players from devising a way to totally ruin the game.
Also, I don’t think we should pin this on conditions being too strong. I think everything is too strong.
I understand that this would be helpful but in the absence of a test server, which is our current situation, we will do as much as we can as fast as we can. We made some changes today and more will be coming as the week goes on. After that our intention is to make balance and bug fix changes to this stuff every couple of weeks leading up to the release of HoT.
Also, not everything is too strong, just all forms of damage.
Jon
All forms of damage?
Condi users except Necros cause they have no burning (except terribad Dhuumfire
Do me a favor and actually provide a source to claiming a single skill for engis can inflict 12 stacks of bleed will you? Because I actually play an engi, and I dont see any such skill. The highest bleed stack application I’ve been able to for engis is blunderbuss, with 4 stacks if you’re in melee range.
All forms of damage?
- Why is Retaliation singled out as the one source of damage that doesn’t benefit from Vulnerability?
- Confusion was changed so that fast/slow attackers were less of an issue… will anything similar be done to make Retaliation more reliably useful?
Thanks for pointing this out.
PS: Jon, if all damage is too strong, then burning must really be off the charts being the strongest damaging condition and its damage is so far above all the rest. Also, please don’t completely kill my condi mesmer that was just upgraded from a troll build in WvW to something kind of viable here and there.
TBH all I am thinking right now is.. why have they tried to re-invent the wheel here.
Conditions dmg in PvP was fine, maybe even a little OP in many cases.
PvE has always been meehhh for condition builds because of the constant desire to make everything a zergwar and in doing so conditions became negated by the cap .. ok understand the issues but what you have now tried to do by a wing and a prayer (without any real idea how it would work out in a live environment – by your own admission) is to reinvent the whole condition wheel at once rather than playing with it one spoke at a time.
What I would of thought would of been logical was to of firstly re-visit your mob / critter tables and actually consider what they are and assign the necessary condi / direct dmg immunities and vulnerabilities (yes some do have immunities I know, but certainly not all and some defo require more logical buffing/counter buffing)..
Then when your mobs are primed, perhaps with small hp buffs and specific counter measures in their kitten nal.. then go back to the actual conditions and one by one tweek their outputs, not simply rejig their whole mechanics without first seeing what simple condition buffing would do with an improved cap mechanic.
What we now have is a complete overkill on some condi’s while others have been given more complex make ups…. (lets hope the NPE will stand up to the test this time, wouldn’t wanna over confuse them with things like confusion etc would we
)
Conditions in general worked fine.. some needed some buffing, some a little downscaling but not totally reinventing the mechaincs.
With all the other changes this has made condi builds far to OP, more complex in a changing build system and untested in a live environment.. but hey the particle effect show for the 2-3 seconds an event lasts now is simply amazing.. I mean it was hard to spot what it was you were hitting prior to patch but now.. thank god for name tags.
Did the formula actually changed? or did i miss out a nerf for bleeding?
There was a last second nerf for bleeding.
The pre patch notes state that by now the formula would be “2 + (0.30 * Level) + (0.075 * Condition Damage)” but instead it ended up being “2 + (0.25 * Level) + (0.06 * Condition Damage)”. Which means the break-even point is now somewhere above 2000 condition damage and not around 700 as “promised”.
So yes, unless you have BiS gear and focus completely on condition damage your bleeds are weaker now.
I see :0… thanks for explaining it so clearly to me
Well it’s obvious that some people want their zerker characters to be meta and no one else. Those days are over, they aren’t coming back so I won’t even respond to those people.
I think the biggest problem isn’t with the overall damage numbers but for individual skills.
Lets take a sword warrior for example. They aren’t the most extreme example but they make a simple point.
They apply bleed primarily with sword. Their sword auto attack applies an 8 second bleed in an AOE, with a direct damage modifier of 0.6. This means a full sinister warrior is doing 140 damage with a bleed and an additional ~800 direct damage or 2000 damage with a crit. Why is the direct damage component so high? This is a condition weapon.
Look at necro, their primary bleed attack is scepter auto, which does a bleed to a single target (not AOE) with a base duration of 5s (as opposed to
on a slower auto attack with a direct component of 0.3. This means they are hitting for ~300-400 damage with crits of 900-1000. Less than half that of warrior, and with a weaker bleed.
Now take that and multiply it by 10x for classes like ele, engineer and guardian right now, who can stack up 10 stacks of Burning in addition to large hitting direct attacks.
Condition weapons need to have their direct damage DRASTICALLY reduced. A condition user should do damage through conditions, and a power user should do damage through direct attacks.
We are OP because right now you can do 100% power, 100% condition or 90% power PLUS 90% condition.
+1
I completely agree. Nerf certain skills, not conditions as a whole.
Currently Bleed is even underpowered, it got nerfed unless you have more than 2051 condition damage. It’s not Bleeds fault that you die so fast, it’s the fault of the direct damage component of certain skills that should be removed or at the very least scaled down.
This i cannot agree with. You’re saying that some weapons must now be played in a mandatory way – conditions. I don’t think they will agree with this.
I think the primary way to fix this is to address the conditions themselves. Otherwise you’ll make weapons unusable unless condi or power.
Just getting these out there so we know we are all in agreement:
1) Conditions seem a bit strong
2) World bosses are currently too easy
3) There are some bugged skills and traits
4) There are some overpowered buildsWe won’t fix it all at once but these are four large topics we are talking about. In the meantime keep the feedback and bug reports coming, and I guess farm up some world bosses. We are dedicating time towards these issues and are intending to resolve them as quickly as possible. As we have said before, the live environment differs too greatly from anything we can reliably simulate internally so big changes like today’s build will cause things to sometimes change at an alarming rateTM.
Thanks for your patience,
Jon
Yes, some builds will need tweeking, others are fine.
As far as world bosses go, one thing to keep in mind: up till this point anything more than 1 condi user in a zerg was a huge drag… they would be lucky to be doing 10% of the damage of a power build but contributed the full scale up effect. Before megaservers, I could routinely kill Golem Mk2 in less than 90 seconds with 3 players in power builds. The Teq world record speed kill pre patch had slightly more than 13 min left on the clock. Whenever you would attend any world boss event where almost all the players present were using power builds, the boss would die very fast.
Hey Jon, besides all that balancing and bug fixing, are you guys also aware of this ?
Btw., what made me ponder yesterday was, that even though I didn’t see any significant difference in the number of my stats, i felt like dishing out way more dmg. Example: my wife and me decided to have some WvW fun with our rangers. Quickly set up a build being quite close to what I played before, checked my stats, reckognized that Power, Crit. Chance, Lifepool was all about as pre-patch but boy… my actual damage was way higher than before.
Had one funny situation with a thief running up to us, stealthing himself while still being out of range. Sneaked up, 1-hitted my wife… just to get insta-downed after half of my rapidfire. That was our “wtf happened to all that damage” moment
What was probably happening in your WvW encounter was: said thief was full zerk and hadn’t changed his or her gear to reflect the stats lost from the trait lines. So that thief had roughly 3,000 less hitpoints and 300 less toughness. So yeah, one rapidfire is more than enough to kill a glass cannon player with 10k hitpoints.
Well it’s obvious that some people want their zerker characters to be meta and no one else. Those days are over, they aren’t coming back so I won’t even respond to those people.
I think the biggest problem isn’t with the overall damage numbers but for individual skills.
Lets take a sword warrior for example. They aren’t the most extreme example but they make a simple point.
They apply bleed primarily with sword. Their sword auto attack applies an 8 second bleed in an AOE, with a direct damage modifier of 0.6. This means a full sinister warrior is doing 140 damage with a bleed and an additional ~800 direct damage or 2000 damage with a crit. Why is the direct damage component so high? This is a condition weapon.
Look at necro, their primary bleed attack is scepter auto, which does a bleed to a single target (not AOE) with a base duration of 5s (as opposed to
Now take that and multiply it by 10x for classes like ele, engineer and guardian right now, who can stack up 10 stacks of Burning in addition to large hitting direct attacks.
Condition weapons need to have their direct damage DRASTICALLY reduced. A condition user should do damage through conditions, and a power user should do damage through direct attacks.
We are OP because right now you can do 100% power, 100% condition or 90% power PLUS 90% condition.
+1
I completely agree. Nerf certain skills, not conditions as a whole.
Currently Bleed is even underpowered, it got nerfed unless you have more than 2051 condition damage. It’s not Bleeds fault that you die so fast, it’s the fault of the direct damage component of certain skills that should be removed or at the very least scaled down.This i cannot agree with. You’re saying that some weapons must now be played in a mandatory way – conditions. I don’t think they will agree with this.
I think the primary way to fix this is to address the conditions themselves. Otherwise you’ll make weapons unusable unless condi or power.
But that’s how weapons have always worked. You just never noticed until now because conditions sucked before.
No condition user in the game is using greatsword on warrior to play conditions. It is a POWER weapon. Similarly no power user should be using a sword, since it is a CONDITION weapon. It has always worked like this, the problem is that conditions aren’t worthless now, so no one noticed until now that some condition weapons do too much direct damage.
I mean if you want to argue that weapons shouldn’t be pigeonholed into power/conditions then please show me a viable power build on necro that uses scepter? or maybe a viable condition build on guardian that uses hammer? Every weapon has a role already, some of them just need to be balanced now.
If you just nerf conditions then you have solved nothing. You still have conditions weapons that do great direct damage and condition damage, and some condition weapons that do the same condition damage but no direct damage.
Well it’s obvious that some people want their zerker characters to be meta and no one else. Those days are over, they aren’t coming back so I won’t even respond to those people.
I think the biggest problem isn’t with the overall damage numbers but for individual skills.
Lets take a sword warrior for example. They aren’t the most extreme example but they make a simple point.
They apply bleed primarily with sword. Their sword auto attack applies an 8 second bleed in an AOE, with a direct damage modifier of 0.6. This means a full sinister warrior is doing 140 damage with a bleed and an additional ~800 direct damage or 2000 damage with a crit. Why is the direct damage component so high? This is a condition weapon.
Look at necro, their primary bleed attack is scepter auto, which does a bleed to a single target (not AOE) with a base duration of 5s (as opposed to
Now take that and multiply it by 10x for classes like ele, engineer and guardian right now, who can stack up 10 stacks of Burning in addition to large hitting direct attacks.
Condition weapons need to have their direct damage DRASTICALLY reduced. A condition user should do damage through conditions, and a power user should do damage through direct attacks.
We are OP because right now you can do 100% power, 100% condition or 90% power PLUS 90% condition.
+1
I completely agree. Nerf certain skills, not conditions as a whole.
Currently Bleed is even underpowered, it got nerfed unless you have more than 2051 condition damage. It’s not Bleeds fault that you die so fast, it’s the fault of the direct damage component of certain skills that should be removed or at the very least scaled down.This i cannot agree with. You’re saying that some weapons must now be played in a mandatory way – conditions. I don’t think they will agree with this.
I think the primary way to fix this is to address the conditions themselves. Otherwise you’ll make weapons unusable unless condi or power.But that’s how weapons have always worked. You just never noticed until now because conditions sucked before.
No condition user in the game is using greatsword on warrior to play conditions. It is a POWER weapon. Similarly no power user should be using a sword, since it is a CONDITION weapon. It has always worked like this, the problem is that conditions aren’t worthless now, so no one noticed until now that some condition weapons do too much direct damage.
I mean if you want to argue that weapons shouldn’t be pigeonholed into power/conditions then please show me a viable power build on necro that uses scepter? or maybe a viable condition build on guardian that uses hammer? Every weapon has a role already, some of them just need to be balanced now.
If you just nerf conditions then you have solved nothing. You still have conditions weapons that do great direct damage and condition damage, and some condition weapons that do the same condition damage but no direct damage.
It’s not a binary, it’s a spectrum. Some weapons are designed to be mostly power-exclusive, and some are designed to be mostly condition-exclusive. Most are in the middle somewhere and intended to be at least mostly viable with either/or.
That said, I do agree that the condition damage problem is mostly related to individual skills as opposed to conditions as a whole.
Well it’s obvious that some people want their zerker characters to be meta and no one else. Those days are over, they aren’t coming back so I won’t even respond to those people.
I think the biggest problem isn’t with the overall damage numbers but for individual skills.
Lets take a sword warrior for example. They aren’t the most extreme example but they make a simple point.
They apply bleed primarily with sword. Their sword auto attack applies an 8 second bleed in an AOE, with a direct damage modifier of 0.6. This means a full sinister warrior is doing 140 damage with a bleed and an additional ~800 direct damage or 2000 damage with a crit. Why is the direct damage component so high? This is a condition weapon.
Look at necro, their primary bleed attack is scepter auto, which does a bleed to a single target (not AOE) with a base duration of 5s (as opposed to
Now take that and multiply it by 10x for classes like ele, engineer and guardian right now, who can stack up 10 stacks of Burning in addition to large hitting direct attacks.
Condition weapons need to have their direct damage DRASTICALLY reduced. A condition user should do damage through conditions, and a power user should do damage through direct attacks.
We are OP because right now you can do 100% power, 100% condition or 90% power PLUS 90% condition.
+1
I completely agree. Nerf certain skills, not conditions as a whole.
Currently Bleed is even underpowered, it got nerfed unless you have more than 2051 condition damage. It’s not Bleeds fault that you die so fast, it’s the fault of the direct damage component of certain skills that should be removed or at the very least scaled down.This i cannot agree with. You’re saying that some weapons must now be played in a mandatory way – conditions. I don’t think they will agree with this.
I think the primary way to fix this is to address the conditions themselves. Otherwise you’ll make weapons unusable unless condi or power.But that’s how weapons have always worked. You just never noticed until now because conditions sucked before.
No condition user in the game is using greatsword on warrior to play conditions. It is a POWER weapon. Similarly no power user should be using a sword, since it is a CONDITION weapon. It has always worked like this, the problem is that conditions aren’t worthless now, so no one noticed until now that some condition weapons do too much direct damage.
I mean if you want to argue that weapons shouldn’t be pigeonholed into power/conditions then please show me a viable power build on necro that uses scepter? or maybe a viable condition build on guardian that uses hammer? Every weapon has a role already, some of them just need to be balanced now.
If you just nerf conditions then you have solved nothing. You still have conditions weapons that do great direct damage and condition damage, and some condition weapons that do the same condition damage but no direct damage.
It’s not a binary, it’s a spectrum. Some weapons are designed to be mostly power-exclusive, and some are designed to be mostly condition-exclusive. Most are in the middle somewhere and intended to be at least mostly viable with either/or.
That said, I do agree that the condition damage problem is mostly related to individual skills as opposed to conditions as a whole.
That would have been ok if gear was set up that way. But currently you have 100% direct damage gear (zerker/assassin), 100% condition damage gear (Rabid/Carrion/Rampagers), and 90% condition + 90% direct damage gear (Sinister).
So either sinister needs to be nerfed significantly, or weapons need to be either or, not both and.
Well it’s obvious that some people want their zerker characters to be meta and no one else. Those days are over, they aren’t coming back so I won’t even respond to those people.
I think the biggest problem isn’t with the overall damage numbers but for individual skills.
Lets take a sword warrior for example. They aren’t the most extreme example but they make a simple point.
They apply bleed primarily with sword. Their sword auto attack applies an 8 second bleed in an AOE, with a direct damage modifier of 0.6. This means a full sinister warrior is doing 140 damage with a bleed and an additional ~800 direct damage or 2000 damage with a crit. Why is the direct damage component so high? This is a condition weapon.
Look at necro, their primary bleed attack is scepter auto, which does a bleed to a single target (not AOE) with a base duration of 5s (as opposed to
Now take that and multiply it by 10x for classes like ele, engineer and guardian right now, who can stack up 10 stacks of Burning in addition to large hitting direct attacks.
Condition weapons need to have their direct damage DRASTICALLY reduced. A condition user should do damage through conditions, and a power user should do damage through direct attacks.
We are OP because right now you can do 100% power, 100% condition or 90% power PLUS 90% condition.
+1
I completely agree. Nerf certain skills, not conditions as a whole.
Currently Bleed is even underpowered, it got nerfed unless you have more than 2051 condition damage. It’s not Bleeds fault that you die so fast, it’s the fault of the direct damage component of certain skills that should be removed or at the very least scaled down.This i cannot agree with. You’re saying that some weapons must now be played in a mandatory way – conditions. I don’t think they will agree with this.
I think the primary way to fix this is to address the conditions themselves. Otherwise you’ll make weapons unusable unless condi or power.But that’s how weapons have always worked. You just never noticed until now because conditions sucked before.
No condition user in the game is using greatsword on warrior to play conditions. It is a POWER weapon. Similarly no power user should be using a sword, since it is a CONDITION weapon. It has always worked like this, the problem is that conditions aren’t worthless now, so no one noticed until now that some condition weapons do too much direct damage.
I mean if you want to argue that weapons shouldn’t be pigeonholed into power/conditions then please show me a viable power build on necro that uses scepter? or maybe a viable condition build on guardian that uses hammer? Every weapon has a role already, some of them just need to be balanced now.
If you just nerf conditions then you have solved nothing. You still have conditions weapons that do great direct damage and condition damage, and some condition weapons that do the same condition damage but no direct damage.
Weapons can still cater to both condition and power builds but individual skills shouldn’t. There is nothing wrong with having both condition and power skills on a weapon, but each skill should either be condition or power based, not both. Cos if you have both then … well we are currently experiencing the result.
Well it’s obvious that some people want their zerker characters to be meta and no one else. Those days are over, they aren’t coming back so I won’t even respond to those people.
I think the biggest problem isn’t with the overall damage numbers but for individual skills.
Lets take a sword warrior for example. They aren’t the most extreme example but they make a simple point.
They apply bleed primarily with sword. Their sword auto attack applies an 8 second bleed in an AOE, with a direct damage modifier of 0.6. This means a full sinister warrior is doing 140 damage with a bleed and an additional ~800 direct damage or 2000 damage with a crit. Why is the direct damage component so high? This is a condition weapon.
Look at necro, their primary bleed attack is scepter auto, which does a bleed to a single target (not AOE) with a base duration of 5s (as opposed to
Now take that and multiply it by 10x for classes like ele, engineer and guardian right now, who can stack up 10 stacks of Burning in addition to large hitting direct attacks.
Condition weapons need to have their direct damage DRASTICALLY reduced. A condition user should do damage through conditions, and a power user should do damage through direct attacks.
We are OP because right now you can do 100% power, 100% condition or 90% power PLUS 90% condition.
+1
I completely agree. Nerf certain skills, not conditions as a whole.
Currently Bleed is even underpowered, it got nerfed unless you have more than 2051 condition damage. It’s not Bleeds fault that you die so fast, it’s the fault of the direct damage component of certain skills that should be removed or at the very least scaled down.This i cannot agree with. You’re saying that some weapons must now be played in a mandatory way – conditions. I don’t think they will agree with this.
I think the primary way to fix this is to address the conditions themselves. Otherwise you’ll make weapons unusable unless condi or power.But that’s how weapons have always worked. You just never noticed until now because conditions sucked before.
No condition user in the game is using greatsword on warrior to play conditions. It is a POWER weapon. Similarly no power user should be using a sword, since it is a CONDITION weapon. It has always worked like this, the problem is that conditions aren’t worthless now, so no one noticed until now that some condition weapons do too much direct damage.
I mean if you want to argue that weapons shouldn’t be pigeonholed into power/conditions then please show me a viable power build on necro that uses scepter? or maybe a viable condition build on guardian that uses hammer? Every weapon has a role already, some of them just need to be balanced now.
If you just nerf conditions then you have solved nothing. You still have conditions weapons that do great direct damage and condition damage, and some condition weapons that do the same condition damage but no direct damage.
Weapons can still cater to both condition and power builds but individual skills shouldn’t. There is nothing wrong with having both condition and power skills on a weapon, but each skill should either be condition or power based, not both. Cos if you have both then … well we are currently experiencing the result.
Well, I actually think it’s probably fine for them to have both, they just need to balanced more carefully.
I just hope Anet don’t nerf down the conditions too much, that would make soloing some small enemies imposible. Instead what’s needed is to buff up some world bosses
Edit: Actually it could be a good time to revamp most of them, since they’re a joke or you need to just stand in a claw and press 1 (looking at you, shatterer).
Well it’s obvious that some people want their zerker characters to be meta and no one else. Those days are over, they aren’t coming back so I won’t even respond to those people.
I think the biggest problem isn’t with the overall damage numbers but for individual skills.
Lets take a sword warrior for example. They aren’t the most extreme example but they make a simple point.
They apply bleed primarily with sword. Their sword auto attack applies an 8 second bleed in an AOE, with a direct damage modifier of 0.6. This means a full sinister warrior is doing 140 damage with a bleed and an additional ~800 direct damage or 2000 damage with a crit. Why is the direct damage component so high? This is a condition weapon.
Look at necro, their primary bleed attack is scepter auto, which does a bleed to a single target (not AOE) with a base duration of 5s (as opposed to
Now take that and multiply it by 10x for classes like ele, engineer and guardian right now, who can stack up 10 stacks of Burning in addition to large hitting direct attacks.
Condition weapons need to have their direct damage DRASTICALLY reduced. A condition user should do damage through conditions, and a power user should do damage through direct attacks.
We are OP because right now you can do 100% power, 100% condition or 90% power PLUS 90% condition.
+1
I completely agree. Nerf certain skills, not conditions as a whole.
Currently Bleed is even underpowered, it got nerfed unless you have more than 2051 condition damage. It’s not Bleeds fault that you die so fast, it’s the fault of the direct damage component of certain skills that should be removed or at the very least scaled down.This i cannot agree with. You’re saying that some weapons must now be played in a mandatory way – conditions. I don’t think they will agree with this.
I think the primary way to fix this is to address the conditions themselves. Otherwise you’ll make weapons unusable unless condi or power.But that’s how weapons have always worked. You just never noticed until now because conditions sucked before.
No condition user in the game is using greatsword on warrior to play conditions. It is a POWER weapon. Similarly no power user should be using a sword, since it is a CONDITION weapon. It has always worked like this, the problem is that conditions aren’t worthless now, so no one noticed until now that some condition weapons do too much direct damage.
I mean if you want to argue that weapons shouldn’t be pigeonholed into power/conditions then please show me a viable power build on necro that uses scepter? or maybe a viable condition build on guardian that uses hammer? Every weapon has a role already, some of them just need to be balanced now.
If you just nerf conditions then you have solved nothing. You still have conditions weapons that do great direct damage and condition damage, and some condition weapons that do the same condition damage but no direct damage.
Weapons can still cater to both condition and power builds but individual skills shouldn’t. There is nothing wrong with having both condition and power skills on a weapon, but each skill should either be condition or power based, not both. Cos if you have both then … well we are currently experiencing the result.
Well, I actually think it’s probably fine for them to have both, they just need to balanced more carefully.
“Balancing more carefully” is pretty hard to do when the damage formulas you are forced to used are universal and don’t differ on a skill to skill basis.
Having power and condition damage work the same way for every skill may have sounded like a good idea back when they designed GW2, but it nonetheless was a mistake. Now they cannot simply change how effective power and condition damage is based on what skills they are currently looking at. They can’t make the bleed from a necros scepter do more damage cos the direct damage portion of the attack is so low. All they can do is to change how much base direct damage a skill does and how many stacks of a specific condition it applies. And this is, given that using a skill still needs to be fun and rewarding, is quite limiting.
(edited by PaxTheGreatOne.9472)
Well it’s obvious that some people want their zerker characters to be meta and no one else. Those days are over, they aren’t coming back so I won’t even respond to those people.
I think the biggest problem isn’t with the overall damage numbers but for individual skills.
Lets take a sword warrior for example. They aren’t the most extreme example but they make a simple point.
They apply bleed primarily with sword. Their sword auto attack applies an 8 second bleed in an AOE, with a direct damage modifier of 0.6. This means a full sinister warrior is doing 140 damage with a bleed and an additional ~800 direct damage or 2000 damage with a crit. Why is the direct damage component so high? This is a condition weapon.
Look at necro, their primary bleed attack is scepter auto, which does a bleed to a single target (not AOE) with a base duration of 5s (as opposed to
Now take that and multiply it by 10x for classes like ele, engineer and guardian right now, who can stack up 10 stacks of Burning in addition to large hitting direct attacks.
Condition weapons need to have their direct damage DRASTICALLY reduced. A condition user should do damage through conditions, and a power user should do damage through direct attacks.
We are OP because right now you can do 100% power, 100% condition or 90% power PLUS 90% condition.
+1
I completely agree. Nerf certain skills, not conditions as a whole.
Currently Bleed is even underpowered, it got nerfed unless you have more than 2051 condition damage. It’s not Bleeds fault that you die so fast, it’s the fault of the direct damage component of certain skills that should be removed or at the very least scaled down.This i cannot agree with. You’re saying that some weapons must now be played in a mandatory way – conditions. I don’t think they will agree with this.
I think the primary way to fix this is to address the conditions themselves. Otherwise you’ll make weapons unusable unless condi or power.But that’s how weapons have always worked. You just never noticed until now because conditions sucked before.
No condition user in the game is using greatsword on warrior to play conditions. It is a POWER weapon. Similarly no power user should be using a sword, since it is a CONDITION weapon. It has always worked like this, the problem is that conditions aren’t worthless now, so no one noticed until now that some condition weapons do too much direct damage.
I mean if you want to argue that weapons shouldn’t be pigeonholed into power/conditions then please show me a viable power build on necro that uses scepter? or maybe a viable condition build on guardian that uses hammer? Every weapon has a role already, some of them just need to be balanced now.
If you just nerf conditions then you have solved nothing. You still have conditions weapons that do great direct damage and condition damage, and some condition weapons that do the same condition damage but no direct damage.
Weapons can still cater to both condition and power builds but individual skills shouldn’t. There is nothing wrong with having both condition and power skills on a weapon, but each skill should either be condition or power based, not both. Cos if you have both then … well we are currently experiencing the result.
Well, I actually think it’s probably fine for them to have both, they just need to balanced more carefully.
“Balancing more carefully” is pretty hard to do when the damage formulas you are forced to used are universal and don’t differ on a skill to skill basis.
Having power and condition damage work the same way for every skill may have sounded like a good idea back when they designed GW2, but it nonetheless was a mistake. Now they cannot simply change how effective power and condition damage is based on what skills they are currently looking at. They can’t make the bleed from a necros scepter do more damage cos the direct damage portion of the attack is so low. All they can do is to change how much base direct damage a skill does and how many stacks of a specific condition it applies. And this is, given that using a skill still needs to be fun and rewarding, is quite limiting.
Power is very easy to do per-skill adjustments with, since no skill has “base damage” for physical damage. Each skill has its own coefficient which determines how much damage it does based on your investment in Power.
Well it’s obvious that some people want their zerker characters to be meta and no one else. Those days are over, they aren’t coming back so I won’t even respond to those people.
I think the biggest problem isn’t with the overall damage numbers but for individual skills.
Lets take a sword warrior for example. They aren’t the most extreme example but they make a simple point.
They apply bleed primarily with sword. Their sword auto attack applies an 8 second bleed in an AOE, with a direct damage modifier of 0.6. This means a full sinister warrior is doing 140 damage with a bleed and an additional ~800 direct damage or 2000 damage with a crit. Why is the direct damage component so high? This is a condition weapon.
Look at necro, their primary bleed attack is scepter auto, which does a bleed to a single target (not AOE) with a base duration of 5s (as opposed to
Now take that and multiply it by 10x for classes like ele, engineer and guardian right now, who can stack up 10 stacks of Burning in addition to large hitting direct attacks.
Condition weapons need to have their direct damage DRASTICALLY reduced. A condition user should do damage through conditions, and a power user should do damage through direct attacks.
We are OP because right now you can do 100% power, 100% condition or 90% power PLUS 90% condition.
+1
I completely agree. Nerf certain skills, not conditions as a whole.
Currently Bleed is even underpowered, it got nerfed unless you have more than 2051 condition damage. It’s not Bleeds fault that you die so fast, it’s the fault of the direct damage component of certain skills that should be removed or at the very least scaled down.This i cannot agree with. You’re saying that some weapons must now be played in a mandatory way – conditions. I don’t think they will agree with this.
I think the primary way to fix this is to address the conditions themselves. Otherwise you’ll make weapons unusable unless condi or power.But that’s how weapons have always worked. You just never noticed until now because conditions sucked before.
No condition user in the game is using greatsword on warrior to play conditions. It is a POWER weapon. Similarly no power user should be using a sword, since it is a CONDITION weapon. It has always worked like this, the problem is that conditions aren’t worthless now, so no one noticed until now that some condition weapons do too much direct damage.
I mean if you want to argue that weapons shouldn’t be pigeonholed into power/conditions then please show me a viable power build on necro that uses scepter? or maybe a viable condition build on guardian that uses hammer? Every weapon has a role already, some of them just need to be balanced now.
If you just nerf conditions then you have solved nothing. You still have conditions weapons that do great direct damage and condition damage, and some condition weapons that do the same condition damage but no direct damage.
Weapons can still cater to both condition and power builds but individual skills shouldn’t. There is nothing wrong with having both condition and power skills on a weapon, but each skill should either be condition or power based, not both. Cos if you have both then … well we are currently experiencing the result.
Well, I actually think it’s probably fine for them to have both, they just need to balanced more carefully.
“Balancing more carefully” is pretty hard to do when the damage formulas you are forced to used are universal and don’t differ on a skill to skill basis.
Having power and condition damage work the same way for every skill may have sounded like a good idea back when they designed GW2, but it nonetheless was a mistake. Now they cannot simply change how effective power and condition damage is based on what skills they are currently looking at. They can’t make the bleed from a necros scepter do more damage cos the direct damage portion of the attack is so low. All they can do is to change how much base direct damage a skill does and how many stacks of a specific condition it applies. And this is, given that using a skill still needs to be fun and rewarding, is quite limiting.
Yes they can. The condition damage portion is controlled by both the duration of the condition and the damage of the condition. It’s tuned for specific skills by the duration, not the damage.
(edited by Chasind.3128)