Guild Wars 2

Interesting, according to a few people I’m the target audience for this thing: I’m willing and able to spend real money on the game but I don’t currently spend anything like $10-15 a month, and I’m a long-term but casual player (playing since launch with no long breaks but only an hour or two a day usually). And yet I’ve always thought the system we have now is perfect for people like me.

The reason I don’t like subscriptions (and particularly pay-to-play games where you have to sub to even log in) is because you have to commit to it and spend the money in advance, then if I don’t get to play enough that month (which is a very real possibility) I feel like I’ve wasted the money. Or if I need or choose to spend that money on something else I either can’t access my subscription benefits, or can’t play at all in a P2P game.

Whereas I don’t have to spend anything in the gem store to play, and if I don’t buy gems for a while I still have full access to everything I’ve bought previously. But when I do want to spend money I have a whole range of options available. (When you factor in gems to gold almost everything in-game can be bought with real money.)

In other words the cash shop system, as long as that shop is only selling cosmetic and convenience items, puts me in control. I can choose when to spend money, how much I spend and what I get in return instead of it being decided for me. I haven’t seen anything in this topic which sounds appealing enough to justify taking away that freedom.

Especially when most of the suggestions are already possible – just buy however many gems you want per month and then use those to buy whatever benefits you want, whether it’s transmutation charges or a banker golem or whatever. Even free or discounted waypoints could work – buy gems, convert to gold, use that to pay for waypoints.

If that’s not possible because it would cost more than you’re willing to spend (e.g. you want instant bank access and infinite transmutation charges for $10 but after buying a 500 gem banker golem the remaining 300 gems will only buy you 10 charges and that’s not enough) then that’s a pretty good indication that Anet would not offer that package even if they were going to do a subscription.

Nail on the head there Danikat.

Subcriptions, even optional ones, are a contract you make with yourself that the developer does not care if you break. I’ve paid my share of subscriptions over the years, and there’s always the nagging pressure of “am I making sure I am getting my money’s worth?”

Its an unpleasant feeling as a player, and even though Anet’s track record on microtransactions in GW2 isn’t great (massive imbalance of gem store cosmetics added to ingame obtainable cosmetics in a cosmetics focused game) I shudder at what incentives they’d have to add to make an “optional” subscription attractive in GW2.

Another problem is unique to optional subscriptions. Even when they are truly optional, the fact that you’d don’t require them to play the game means you are renting things to your players. Whatever cosmetic thing, buff, etc. the subscription contains is never truly owned, which means you are preying on your “optional” player’s attachment to those items/features much in the same way RNG gambling boxes prey on the “option” to gamble for skins.

In both cases it’s disrespectful to your customers. Optional subscriptions mean you have to make something your players want long term enough to keep up the subscription. This means your non-subscribing players are being given the message (much like how the current implementation of the gem store works) that in you self-proclaimed buy-once-play-forever game, you don’t really expect them to buy once.

It’s like… I don’t know, selling a 50 dollar expansion and making sure you have nearly as much cosmetic content in your cash shop on the day of release as there is in the thing they just paid you fifty dollars for

Or, you know, touting gliding as your main new feature and then only selling glider skins in the gem store for half a year.

Its a signal to your player base they you don’t care about their fun as much as their money. People are happy to give you their money when they think you give a crap. If you put two skins in the game every time you put one in the cash shop you wouldn’t suddenly find your fifty dollar expansion is a net loss and have to try and nickel and dime your players for even more cash shop money.

“optional subscriptions” are fine for a free to play game. GW2 already has a business model. That model is buy to play expansions. Their problem is attempting to layer microtransactions on top of that.

When people give you their money, your first response should never be “okay, that’s great… but really, give us more money” it should be “thank you for being a customer, hopefully we can treat you right so next time we offer you a similar product you will feel inclined to buy that one too.”

That was how the old Anet operated, and how they got the resources to make this very game. AND they did it in a climate of subscription based games!

GW1 was successful because it oprated on a model of respecting and treating the customer well. HoT flopped because it operated on a model of abusing the customer’s desire for new content and cosmetics.

Optional VIP subs are an even more abusive way of creating the same problem that is already hurting Anet’s bottom line.

DrEckers.2039:

One of the selling points for me for this series, has always been the lack of a subscription fee. Even one as innocent as each month you get free Waypoint costs and a small amount of gems would not go over well with me as it would create the psychological need to play the game. One of the great things about this game is how easy it is to breaks. The playerbase even encourages it for when players become burned out or bored but to come back when the next Patch, LS, etc. etc. comes out. A subscription fee would be counter to that healthy culture.

All my +1’s. I love the lack of a subscription fee for GW2, and it is what has made me come back and, soon enough, buy HoT.

If ArenaNet wanted to make some more cash generating channels then I would have them consider high quality video content via YouTube and a housing system with place-able items. EQ2 makes quite a chunk of change selling exclusive house items in their cash shop.

Rhyse.8179:

Ashen.2907:

Hmm, how about:

For $10 per month you get $10 worth of gems.

There seems to be a misunderstanding in this thread of what a VIP sub is for and what kind of customer would be interested in it.

The FTP business model (in general; I obviously don’t know GW2’s demographics) tend to rely heavily on “fat cat” players, who are willing to drop large amounts of money at once. People that buy gems to fund legendaries, who gamble with BL keys, etc. It’s a business model that’s notorious for killing games by incentivizing cashable development instead of core gameplay development (although, to be fair, GW2 has been impacted by this less then normal).

Long term, dedicated players who just play the game an hour or two per day tend to get left out of such a system, since they don’t feel there’s anything of value (to them; see my sig) to buy. They typically don’t want to drop large amounts of money on “just a game” but have no problem flinging some cash at a service they appreciate. These are the customers that a VIP subscription is marketed to. This is of value to the game, since it expands their market to include their most reliable customers, and if properly done it won’t affect either the Fat Cat customers or gameplay. This gives Anet a reliable income stream that doesn’t rely on constantly marketing new goodies for the gem store and encourages development of gameplay instead, so having a well done VIP sub is of value to the player community as well.

Sub bonuses should therefore be consistent, minor additions that are always valuable no matter what the state of the game is. And of course, have no effect at all on active gameplay.

With that in mind, these are my suggestions:
1) $10.00 or $15.00 monthly
2) 800 Gems per month ($10 value)
3) No waypoint costs
4) Unlimited Hair Style change NPC
5) 10 free Transmute charges per month.
6) Service NPC’s appear in your home instance.
7) Personal Banker Golem for all characters

Notes and justifications:
1 and 2) This will depend on whether Anet wants to offer the full value of the sub as gems, and just use the extra incentives to encourage customer loyalty, or whether they think the incentives are worth money on their own.

3) +1 to the guy that suggested it. It’s economically trivial, but gives the feeling of convenience, exactly what a VIP sub should be.

4) This will be controversial since it’s a gem store item, but it has some advantages. It’s a popular service and makes a good draw to the sub, it doesn’t affect gameplay at all, and tweaking their character’s appearance more often may encourage people to buy the Full Makeover Kit.

5) Another economically trivial bonus that doubles as marketing for other services. Xmogs are already dropped in game, so another 10 per month just encourages more tweaking of ppl’s character, which in turn encourages skin/outfit collecting and may bring people to the gem store.

6) This is meant to give a “personal” feel to the game, which tends to be exactly what long term casual players want. NPC’s that offer various services like bank, TP, vendor, etc, plus the Hair Style vendor from #4, and maybe even a Buff Bot NPC that offers to cast various Black Lion Boosts on you for free (no magic find / damage boosts, since that’s gameplay related).

7) Convenience is the the #1 marketable feature that doesn’t affect gameplay.

But the game is not a true F2P game. I think you misunderstand what the game really is.

I’d rather Anet do again what they did a few times before by mailing small, unique gifts in the mail like miniatures or skins to those that spent money for gems at the end of the year or period. I enjoyed those little “Thank You” items like the Green Quaggan backpack cover.

The items did not hold much significance, but it was the thought that counted. Imagine that… Too bad they managed to mess that up the last time by restricting the money spent between a few selected months and then tiered these “gifts.”

Anyway, I’m not against the idea of a VIP monthly subscription program, but I’m not for it either. It all depends on the execution, and I don’t trust the ones at Anet in charge of dealing with such matters to execute it appropriately.

Does xbox live gold count as a sub? and if so updates, qol, events, and LS should all be included. Pay for dlc’s seperate.

Wetpaw.3487:

Does xbox live gold count as a sub? and if so updates, qol, events, and LS should all be included. Pay for dlc’s seperate.

Xbox live does count as a subscription, but it’s a bit different because it’s a subscription to the whole service rather than one game.

The problem with your suggestion is that updates, quality of life changes and events are already free to everyone (even free players). And last time around the Living Story was free for everyone who logged in during the 2 week release period for each update.

Restricting all of that to only make it available to subscription players would be a truly terrible idea.

Danikat.8537:

Wetpaw.3487:

Does xbox live gold count as a sub? and if so updates, qol, events, and LS should all be included. Pay for dlc’s seperate.

Xbox live does count as a subscription, but it’s a bit different because it’s a subscription to the whole service rather than one game.

The problem with your suggestion is that updates, quality of life changes and events are already free to everyone (even free players). And last time around the Living Story was free for everyone who logged in during the 2 week release period for each update.

Restricting all of that to only make it available to subscription players would be a truly terrible idea.

So basically port/cross-network/profit to consoles and keep it the way it’s

Wetpaw.3487:

Danikat.8537:

Wetpaw.3487:

Does xbox live gold count as a sub? and if so updates, qol, events, and LS should all be included. Pay for dlc’s seperate.

Xbox live does count as a subscription, but it’s a bit different because it’s a subscription to the whole service rather than one game.

The problem with your suggestion is that updates, quality of life changes and events are already free to everyone (even free players). And last time around the Living Story was free for everyone who logged in during the 2 week release period for each update.

Restricting all of that to only make it available to subscription players would be a truly terrible idea.

So basically port/cross-network/profit to consoles and keep it the way it’s

Except console is basically a “we arent doing it” WoG statement. All you people forget that anet vets their OWN updates for the game. Console? MS and Sony would need to vet patches and updates as well. That means consoles will not be able to play with PC servers, and likely wont ever support cross-platform play either. Game-breaking bugs that get fixed within hours on PC? Days or weeks for console because of patch vetting. Followed by potential rollbacks. No thanks.

How about a wheel of legendaries spin every month. Get one legendary every spin, lady luck will tell which one /s. Go back to WoW with your Subs.

Riku.4821:

For $5 a month:
1. Get 200 gems a month?
2. No waypoint costs 1000 luck and 1000 karma
3. Free character slot. upgrade extractor
4. Free lv80 boost. 10 Black Lion Chest Keys

I would pay a subscription fee if it gave me exclusive access to Cantha.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I would pay a subscription fee if it gave me exclusive access to Cantha.

You mean only you get to go? (Since that’s what exclusive means).

There are games that have this model, where you can piecemeal the game or pay a sub. I encourage you to check out Dungeons and Dragons Online to see how they set it up and ask, if that is really how you want things to go.

The main problem with a ViP sub, is that it instantly makes everyone else feel like second class citizens. Which is exactly what any model built off ‘fat cats’ should shy away from.

However, to keep it more controlled, it would need to provide something that does not give an edge to the players that have it, so that it remains frivolous fluff, like most of the items in the Gem store. However, this also needs to be something that does not collect up, so that players can’t get ViP for a few months and just get everything they want, it needs to be a system where players will keep paying into it.

So, it can’t give Gems, Charges, Items, or stuff like that, it needs to be access controlled, so, I suppose something like this, would make it attractive.

• 2 Free “Total Make Over” Uses per month. These do not stack up, you can’t save them up, they do not go in your inventory, you talk to an NPC that triggers them. (but still, it’s a ‘free’ 700 Gem Value)
• Access to All Outfits – only while ViP is active.
• Access to all Gem Store Finishers – While ViP is active. This does not apply to any finishers you need to earn in game.
• Access to All Gem Store Minis – While ViP is active.
• Access to all Dyes – While ViP is active.
• Access to all Gem Store Gliders – While Vip Is active.
• 10% Discount on any Gem Store Purchases, on top of any sales.

Now I understand that gives a player access to a ton of very expensive stuff, which could amount to many thousands of gems worth of items, and hundreds of gold worth of Dyes.

So, it becomes worth it to buy a Vip Membership. And I would propose that all this would come at a paltry 10 a month.

My VIP list

1. Access to a VIP area like The Royal Terrace
2. x Black Lion’s key. 1 for the first month, 2 for the second, etc., 5 monthly tops.
3. No waypoint cost from the 3th month
4. Unlimited waypoint to your friend token
5. Unlimited waypoint to your Home Instance token
6. Quarterly titles like the birthday titles.
7. Ability to change the apple tag to something nicer. Maybe pineapple?

If i had a subscription that came with gems I’d just have thousands of gems sat around in my account by now as I don’t feel the need to buy even 1% of what the gemstore has to offer. I currently just use gold to buy gems when I want something and so if I wasn’t doing that I’d also have thousands of gold sat in my account.
I can’t see this would be a good thing, as others have said if you want to sub, buy gems with cash every month. If you’re not already doing that then you don’t really want a sub.

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions”

This statement applies to this suggestion.

Its a nice thought. Its a good intention. Its the start of a slippery slope that I do not want to see Anet fall down. Not walk. Not roll. Fall. This is Anet we’re talking about people. (I love you Anet, but you certainly have your flaws. I’ve been here for a decade, I’ve seen some doozies.)

Why don’t we just suggest that they offer a 5 dollar gem option, rather than $10 being the smallest. Maybe add some bonus gems to larger packs purchased (like 50, 75, and 100 $ purchases). The smaller pack might tempt more people to purchase that don’t currently. Bonus gems might tempt people that do to spend on the larger bundles. It achieves the same goal of generating revenue for Anet without the slippery slope, and without people screaming about pay to win in the forums.

Beyond that, some of us do (to some capacity) already do “voluntary subscriptions” in the form of purchasing gems on a regular or semi-regular basis. You can do so too if supporting Anet is your primary purpose, without sticking a “VIP” tag on it.

Edit for the dumb filter that won’t let me use $5 after the letter “a.”

They tried that VIP thing with the China launch. It caused the game to tank so hard that I don’t even know if China is still running GW2 or not.

I don’t have a problem with some small stuff in principle for a monthly fee, but it always gets out of hand, the devs can never keep their greed in check and ultimately it would destroy the game. As such I would have to strongly recommend against something like this.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

They tried that VIP thing with the China launch. It caused the game to tank so hard that I don’t even know if China is still running GW2 or not.

I don’t have a problem with some small stuff in principle for a monthly fee, but it always gets out of hand, the devs can never keep their greed in check and ultimately it would destroy the game. As such I would have to strongly recommend against something like this.

No, ANet didn’t try in China, the company that runs it there, who run other games all with VIP systems tried it and expanded on it to well outside the game. They sold exclusive skins and weapons for straight up cash, not gems. They had rewards based on who charged their account with cash to later buy proxy currency. What was done there would instantly be rejected in the west on any game.

This made those who knew how the game’s cash shop worked outside of China to publicly cry about the blatant cash grab by KongZHong by circumventing the game’s own cash shop for their own “contests”.