Guild Wars 2

I think ArenaNet might be quickest dev I have seen when it comes to patches. This can be a good thing when bugs are quickly fixed and new features are added. However, a lot of problems can also result.

I was wondering, why did they implement torment? There are so many conditions already (maybe too many), some of which aren’t very useful, yet they find the need to come up with a new one? ANet needs to know that when you roll out something that isn’t well planned out, you can’t go back; you can’t just remove this condition now.

Another thing is that they are far too quick to react to is ‘balance’ changes. Thieves have been nerfed in every major balance patch and now they have no 1200 range skill. Now that they are handicapped in WvWvW, ANet will have to patch in some other changes to balance it… again. Warriors never get better, eles get buffed etc.

My advice is to stop and think it through. Make changes that are actually useful, like a party finder, instead of ways to make money in your cash shop.

I’m not sure if you realize how patronizing this sounds. You’re assuming they haven’t thought something through, because you don’t see a reason for it. I wouldn’t wager money on it.

First of all balances aren’t JUST made for WvW, they’re made for all forms of the game. You’re obviously centered on WvW and think about that, but Anet is thinking about the entire game, including SPvP, where that condition can have some interesting consequences.

Now it probably won’t do much for thieves, and maybe not much for mesmers either, but I can guarantee you some necros will be using it. Because necros are one of the professions people were complaining about.

And necros are quite happy with this patch.

Again, from a WvW point of view, staff necros are really awesome, but in PvE, necros had very few builds that actually worked. The idea was to create more build variety.

The same with mesmers, some of whom DO use condition builds, but didn’t have enough variety.

Just because you don’t see a reason for something, or it doesn’t particularly help WvW doesn’t mean that no reason exists for it.

Anet have no QA department.

Avatara.1042:

Anet have no QA department.

Demonstrably false.

To be fair, a lot of the Thief nerfs were pretty warranted. I’ll grant you that Shortbow had no reason to be nerfed, though.

ZombiesTT.3619:

I think ArenaNet might be quickest dev I have seen when it comes to patches. This can be a good thing when bugs are quickly fixed and new features are added. However, a lot of problems can also result.

I was wondering, why did they implement torment? There are so many conditions already (maybe too many), some of which aren’t very useful, yet they find the need to come up with a new one? ANet needs to know that when you roll out something that isn’t well planned out, you can’t go back; you can’t just remove this condition now.

Another thing is that they are far too quick to react to is ‘balance’ changes. Thieves have been nerfed in every major balance patch and now they have no 1200 range skill. Now that they are handicapped in WvWvW, ANet will have to patch in some other changes to balance it… again. Warriors never get better, eles get buffed etc.

My advice is to stop and think it through. Make changes that are actually useful, like a party finder, instead of ways to make money in your cash shop.

I’m curious to hear how a balance patch which fixes traitlines somehow funds their cash shop.

TIL resetting trait points costs gems.

Vayne.8563:

Avatara.1042:

Anet have no QA department.

Demonstrably false.

Really? I’d like to know the QA that went into the initial release of Dragon Bash.

ZombiesTT.3619:

Another thing is that they are far too quick to react to is ‘balance’ changes. Thieves have been nerfed in every major balance patch and now they have no 1200 range skill. Now that they are handicapped in WvWvW, ANet will have to patch in some other changes to balance it… again. Warriors never get better, eles get buffed etc.

I don’t understand you. How is constant adjustment to make the professions as balanced as possible bad? That’s good, VERY good.

God Of Fissures.8627:

Vayne.8563:

Avatara.1042:

Anet have no QA department.

Demonstrably false.

Really? I’d like to know the QA that went into the initial release of Dragon Bash.

If there was no Q&A department, Dragon Bash would have had hundreds of bugs, not ten.

Content is coming QUICKLY so QA has less time. Simple logic.

Vayne.8563:

God Of Fissures.8627:

Vayne.8563:

Avatara.1042:

Anet have no QA department.

Demonstrably false.

Really? I’d like to know the QA that went into the initial release of Dragon Bash.

If there was no Q&A department, Dragon Bash would have had hundreds of bugs, not ten.

Content is coming QUICKLY so QA has less time. Simple logic.

Then logic would also dictate that the devs have to slow down and test things more thoroughly before releasing them.

Because oh boy, people could use buffs inside dragon ball arena for what, 3 hours? Very very game breaking.

@ OP:
You are right, they should stop trying to make money through the cash shop…it’s not like they live off their work on this game or something.

God Of Fissures.8627:

Vayne.8563:

God Of Fissures.8627:

Vayne.8563:

Avatara.1042:

Anet have no QA department.

Demonstrably false.

Really? I’d like to know the QA that went into the initial release of Dragon Bash.

If there was no Q&A department, Dragon Bash would have had hundreds of bugs, not ten.

Content is coming QUICKLY so QA has less time. Simple logic.

Then logic would also dictate that the devs have to slow down and test things more thoroughly before releasing them.

I wouldn’t disagree with that. Though I think coming out with patches quicky does keep some people playing, I think people also need down time and changes to digest content.

Vayne.8563:

Avatara.1042:

Anet have no QA department.

Demonstrably false.

Going to pretend you were joking.

Avatara.1042:

Vayne.8563:

Avatara.1042:

Anet have no QA department.

Demonstrably false.

Going to pretend you were joking.

It’s demonstrably false, because we’ve seen and heard from people in the QA department. Whether they’re given enough time to adequately do their jobs might not be a reflection on them at all.

One of my builds was seriously nerfed, but that is OK with me. I am one of those people who enjoys recreating my character after something like this. I know there are a lot of people who are not.

Having said that, I believe, that ANet takes a lot of care with their balancing decisions. As Vayne said above, they have to take all aspects of play into account. Balance cannot be an easy thing for them to whip out, so I am most certain these balancing issues have been discussed for quite some time and probably debated amongst themselves.

In a couple of weeks I am sure that most of us will not even care what the changes were. Good and bad. We will have moved on and playing normally with what we have.

Vayne.8563:

First of all balances aren’t JUST made for WvW, they’re made for all forms of the game. You’re obviously centered on WvW and think about that, but Anet is thinking about the entire game, including SPvP, where that condition can have some interesting consequences.

Now it probably won’t do much for thieves, and maybe not much for mesmers either, but I can guarantee you some necros will be using it. Because necros are one of the professions people were complaining about.

And necros are quite happy with this patch.

Again, from a WvW point of view, staff necros are really awesome, but in PvE, necros had very few builds that actually worked. The idea was to create more build variety.

The same with mesmers, some of whom DO use condition builds, but didn’t have enough variety.

Just because you don’t see a reason for something, or it doesn’t particularly help WvW doesn’t mean that no reason exists for it.

I play spvp more than wvw so I can see both sides. A shortbow nerf may not affect me in spvp but it does in wvw where range in absolutely essential.

Just because people complain about a class doesn’t mean that it needs fixing. Necros are insanely powerful if played right and by buffing them, Anet is doing exactly what they fear – implementing power creep.

Vol.5241:

I’m curious to hear how a balance patch which fixes traitlines somehow funds their cash shop.

TIL resetting trait points costs gems.

All of these big content patches are ways of adding new things to the cash shop – backpacks, skins etc.

Lord Vem.8649:

I don’t understand you. How is constant adjustment to make the professions as balanced as possible bad? That’s good, VERY good.

I was avoiding comparisons, but this is the best way to explain. There is a game called StarCraft 2 which is an actual, well respected e-sport. On release of the game, people complained about how OP terrans were and demanded nerfs. Blizzard (the developer) was not so quick to be pushed around by the community. Instead of giving in to pressure, they left the game mostly unchanged until players learned to how counter certain builds etc.

There is always the potential to become better and only when all other options are exhausted should patches be made.

Wolfheart.1938:

@ OP:
You are right, they should stop trying to make money through the cash shop…it’s not like they live off their work on this game or something.

If they wanted to have a f2p game, then the client should be free. GW operates on game and expansion sales, and should not depend on a cash shop. Unfortunately too many people are easy prey.

If they wanted to have a f2p game, then the client should be free. GW operates on game and expansion sales, and should not depend on a cash shop. Unfortunately too many people are easy prey.

GW2 operates on both, they are a business it is their job to make money….

As far as patch balancing, I think many of you are vastly under-estimating the difficulty involved in balancing classes in all 3 mediums (s/t pvp, wvw, pve). You are also giving the developers no credit at all suggesting they just threw this together in a couple weeks.

The statement about their being more than enough conditions already and that some are useless clearly only plays burst builds because there is not a single condition that I dislike. But crit and crit damage are vastly overpowered with the design of most situations in the game.

Torment and specifically the new necro death shroud 5 skill can have a major impact on pvp and wvw.

So shame on a corporation trying to make money?

If you look at each update, the BLTC only makes a small portion of it. But please, do care to ignore all the content updates that have been included and make it seem like the gemshop is the ONLY reason why we have these updates.

You can never please everybody. I think Anet should just hand you a precursor for logging in (and throw a few gems at you for good measure) just to satisfy you.

ZombiesTT.3619:

Vayne.8563:

First of all balances aren’t JUST made for WvW, they’re made for all forms of the game. You’re obviously centered on WvW and think about that, but Anet is thinking about the entire game, including SPvP, where that condition can have some interesting consequences.

Now it probably won’t do much for thieves, and maybe not much for mesmers either, but I can guarantee you some necros will be using it. Because necros are one of the professions people were complaining about.

And necros are quite happy with this patch.

Again, from a WvW point of view, staff necros are really awesome, but in PvE, necros had very few builds that actually worked. The idea was to create more build variety.

The same with mesmers, some of whom DO use condition builds, but didn’t have enough variety.

Just because you don’t see a reason for something, or it doesn’t particularly help WvW doesn’t mean that no reason exists for it.

I play spvp more than wvw so I can see both sides. A shortbow nerf may not affect me in spvp but it does in wvw where range in absolutely essential.

Just because people complain about a class doesn’t mean that it needs fixing. Necros are insanely powerful if played right and by buffing them, Anet is doing exactly what they fear – implementing power creep.

Vol.5241:

I’m curious to hear how a balance patch which fixes traitlines somehow funds their cash shop.

TIL resetting trait points costs gems.

All of these big content patches are ways of adding new things to the cash shop – backpacks, skins etc.

Lord Vem.8649:

I don’t understand you. How is constant adjustment to make the professions as balanced as possible bad? That’s good, VERY good.

I was avoiding comparisons, but this is the best way to explain. There is a game called StarCraft 2 which is an actual, well respected e-sport. On release of the game, people complained about how OP terrans were and demanded nerfs. Blizzard (the developer) was not so quick to be pushed around by the community. Instead of giving in to pressure, they left the game mostly unchanged until players learned to how counter certain builds etc.

There is always the potential to become better and only when all other options are exhausted should patches be made.

Wolfheart.1938:

@ OP:
You are right, they should stop trying to make money through the cash shop…it’s not like they live off their work on this game or something.

If they wanted to have a f2p game, then the client should be free. GW operates on game and expansion sales, and should not depend on a cash shop. Unfortunately too many people are easy prey.

There were precious few necro builds worth anything, particularly in PvE, which does have a whole lot of this game’s population.

Anet didn’t change the builds the way people asked them too. They changed the builds to create more build variety. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say no one wanted a new condition but Anet is listening to the fans at the expense of what makes sense. If they’re listening to the fans, there certainly wouldn’t be a new condition.

We know the balance changes in the last update were not a rushed/impulse decision because they were being discussed on the forums for weeks before the actual update. And it’s reasonable to assume Anet had discussed it amongst themselves for a while before they announced their plans to the community.

More generally I suspect everyone who believes Anet have no QA/testing process for their updates has never alpha tested anything before. If what we’re getting in the game is completely untested content then Anet have the best programmers in the world. No one consistently makes new content with only a few minor bugs on a first attempt, especially not for a game this complicated.

I assume it’s the same as GW1 – they have a testing server and everything goes through there first, but it’s kept in-house and only Anet staff and maybe some close family and friends who can be trusted to give decent feedback and not blab it across the internet have access.

Summary of this thread: Entitlement. We have it!

Leo G.4501:

Summary of this thread: Entitlement. We have it!

Good sir, you may have my like!

ZombiesTT.3619:

Just because people complain about a class doesn’t mean that it needs fixing. Necros are insanely powerful if played right and by buffing them, Anet is doing exactly what they fear – implementing power creep.

You are right, just because everyone here is complaining about thieves and necros after the new balance patch, doesn’t mean that it needs fixing.

All of these big content patches are ways of adding new things to the cash shop – backpacks, skins etc.

However, the entirety of your post was regarding just the balance patches, and you closed off your argument talking about something else. Just because there are cash shop items in the patch does not mean that the balancing had anything to do with them.

I was avoiding comparisons, but this is the best way to explain. There is a game called StarCraft 2 which is an actual, well respected e-sport. On release of the game, people complained about how OP terrans were and demanded nerfs. Blizzard (the developer) was not so quick to be pushed around by the community. Instead of giving in to pressure, they left the game mostly unchanged until players learned to how counter certain builds etc.

There is always the potential to become better and only when all other options are exhausted should patches be made.

As stated above, ANet needs to make balance changes for PvE, SPvP and WvW. Guild Wars 2 is also an MMO, not a real time strategy game. The game is on-going, once you die, you respawn (in SC2 you are out.)

Additionally, to say that SC2 has not made any balance changes and no updates is false. The biggest, of course, is at the expansion with Heart of the Swarm. ANet has taken the strategy to attempt these with continuous patches rather than mass expansions once every couple of years.

It’s also kind of funny that you think it is better that blizzard ignored their fans.

If they wanted to have a f2p game, then the client should be free. GW operates on game and expansion sales, and should not depend on a cash shop. Unfortunately too many people are easy prey.

GW1 and 2 are very different and obviously have very different operational costs. GW2, undoubtedly requires more attention and higher server costs.

ZombiesTT.3619:

If they wanted to have a f2p game, then the client should be free. GW operates on game and expansion sales, and should not depend on a cash shop. Unfortunately too many people are easy prey.

GW operates on what Arenanet decides for it to operate, not on what you think they should operate. It was very well known before release that GW2 would have a cash shop, just be thankful that you get patches every 2 weeks without having to pay a dime. And there’s no being prey unless you waste your cash in RNG bullcrap, which is only a part of what the cash shop is.

I’ll avoid further posting as other people have already more than covered the same points and I think no positive discussion can stem from this.

Stopped reading when he started on about thieves being nerfed.