Guild Wars 2

So, Anet has decided that third party DPS meters like Arc DPS are acceptable within the policy guidelines. Okay. Did anyone at Anet stop to think about how much hostility and general nastiness result from people employing such scripts? It encourages elitism and general bad behavior. Yes, we can report and block… but we really shouldn’t have to. As far as I can tell, no action is ever taken on such “reports”, anyway.

When I first started playing GW2, I liked that it wasn’t a DPS or meta race. Over the years, that has changed dramatically. Now, Anet is making DPS trackers legit and acceptable; so what’s the message? They don’t want the game to be all about DPS, but they’re going to stack the game so it IS all about DPS. If a meta gets out of hand, nerf it!

Look, I don’t mind the tools being used within defined, regular teams. That’s fine. If someone in an organized, set group needs chewed out for lacking DPS or not using a defined play style, cool. Whatever. But when that attitude and behavior spills over into general game play and LFG? No.

I don’t know the solution, really. It is what it is? However, if this is going to remain the trend (endorsed and encouraged by Anet by allowing tools for DPS/gear check), why not include a rating system or other categorical tick-boxes for “Casual”, “Organized” and/or “Elitist kitten” within the LFG? I understand that Anet needs to create demanding, challenging end-game content that will appeal to the die-hard-forever set; but with that comes a need to mediate their own system.

Does ArenaNet allow gear check? I thought they didn’t, but I know little about DPS meters.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Does ArenaNet allow gear check? I thought they didn’t, but I know little about DPS meters.

It’s allowed in the Chinese market, I’ve read…

Jericento.3165:

So, Anet has decided that third party DPS meters like Arc DPS are acceptable within the policy guidelines. Okay. Did anyone at Anet stop to think about how much hostility and general nastiness result from people employing such scripts? It encourages elitism and general bad behavior. Yes, we can report and block… but we really shouldn’t have to. As far as I can tell, no action is ever taken on such “reports”, anyway.

When I first started playing GW2, I liked that it wasn’t a DPS or meta race. Over the years, that has changed dramatically. Now, Anet is making DPS trackers legit and acceptable; so what’s the message? They don’t want the game to be all about DPS, but they’re going to stack the game so it IS all about DPS. If a meta gets out of hand, nerf it!

Look, I don’t mind the tools being used within defined, regular teams. That’s fine. If someone in an organized, set group needs chewed out for lacking DPS or not using a defined play style, cool. Whatever. But when that attitude and behavior spills over into general game play and LFG? No.

I don’t know the solution, really. It is what it is? However, if this is going to remain the trend (endorsed and encouraged by Anet by allowing tools for DPS/gear check), why not include a rating system or other categorical tick-boxes for “Casual”, “Organized” and/or “Elitist kitten” within the LFG? I understand that Anet needs to create demanding, challenging end-game content that will appeal to the die-hard-forever set; but with that comes a need to mediate their own system.

It really does put a split between the community.

More info from BGDM dps

http://gw2bgdm.blogspot.com/p/faq.html?m=1

Dps meters are fine they are only used in higher tier content and if a player does get kicked by then it is quantitative data instead of speculatative data for the reasoning, people need to understand Dps meter or no dps meter there are always toxic people and the dps meters aren’t what cause toxicity, no matter how much players want to believe it.

And gear check is not allowed by Anet

Why not improve your DPS instead…?
I did it, so anyone can.

Or if u dont wanna do that, then start your own lfg…I always do that when Im sick of nasty ppl.

I didn’t think so. Thus, OP, if you are experiencing undesirable comments regarding your gear (as it was ‘checked’) in open (world) gameplay, you can report the player(s), and the CS Team will investigate.

Good luck.

I don’t know if it’s any worse than it used to be, but I recall making an argument a long time ago that people are going to have a bad attitude, whether their information is accurate or not. The main difference with a meter is that they can be a little more certain about who isn’t pulling their weight.

I would think that people who use it to trash talk were probably going to find a reason to trash talk, meter or no.

It’s been my observation over the years (in this and other games) that LFG is a mixed bag. Sometimes, you get in with decent people, sometimes you don’t. This is so regardless of whether the game has a DPS meter or not. The Dungeon Sub-forum regularly featured complaints about (so-called) elitism and bad behavior long before ANet allowed damage meters. The only logical conclusion is that people inclined to act that way are going to find a reason to do so.

Tl;Dr: It’s not the non-organic tool, it’s the organic one.

Disclaimer: The above is meant to apply only to people who are rude and insulting. I offer no value judgments about things like exclusion, having preferences and the like, all of which are complex issues, usually with more than one side worthy of consideration.

Jericento.3165:

So, Anet has decided that third party DPS meters like Arc DPS are acceptable within the policy guidelines. Okay. Did anyone at Anet stop to think about how much hostility and general nastiness result from people employing such scripts? It encourages elitism and general bad behavior. Yes, we can report and block… but we really shouldn’t have to. As far as I can tell, no action is ever taken on such “reports”, anyway.

And this is different than elitism over LIs before them how exactly?

At least now people are using a metric which actually has some connection to what they want to judge others by, instead of an entirely unconnected one.

So how is this not a massive improvement? Because the elitism and hostility you lament existed way before those DPS meters, just that they used achievement points, or LIs, or even linked gear.

Jericento.3165:

When I first started playing GW2, I liked that it wasn’t a DPS or meta race. Over the years, that has changed dramatically. Now, Anet is making DPS trackers legit and acceptable; so what’s the message? They don’t want the game to be all about DPS, but they’re going to stack the game so it IS all about DPS. If a meta gets out of hand, nerf it!

More so than any other MMO I’ve played before (and I started with EQ1 :P ), GW2 is much, much, much more about DPS only – and has been so since the beginning.

This was an expected and natural result of having all classes be damage-dealers first and foremost. Damage-elitism was one of the first things you encountered back in the freshly launched GW2, running explorable dungeons.

Carighan.6758:

Damage-elitism was one of the first things you encountered back in the freshly launched GW2, running explorable dungeons.

Ah, the good ol’ days of CoF p1, before it was made laughably easy.

Some people may use the dsp meter simply to work on their own skill development (in which case there is no need for a party-wide dps meter), and certainly elitism was present before Anet gave the green light for the use of such third party dps meters. However, the OP is absolutely right in implying that dps meters exacerbate, rather than help, the problem of elitist behaviour. They only contribute to creating a more exclusionary, toxic community. It is definitely disappointing to see Anet shift its position on these issues :/

On the contrary, ANet’s decision to allow (party-wide) meters was a great one. Now we finally have some precise data to locate problems. Toxic people would have been toxic anyway, as the history of this game clearly shows.

I kill all Raid bosses on a weekly basis and I do T4 Fractals maybe every day of the week. I am in the perfect environment to find elitism with DPS meters, yet I haven’t. (And I pug everything.)

So I don’t know how you got this idea? Cause I can’t see this hostility.

Goldfox.5729:

I kill all Raid bosses on a weekly basis and I do T4 Fractals maybe every day of the week.

But most likely with ppl you know. And T4 fractals don’t necessarily attract ppl with vastly different player skills.

Pickup group consisting if Mr I-know-everything who hasn’t found a regular group because of his attitude and a bunch of inexperienced ppl joined from the LFG trying to tackle something difficult. That’s where you find hostility. This scenario is also universal throughout all games.

Kiza.5630:

Goldfox.5729:

I kill all Raid bosses on a weekly basis and I do T4 Fractals maybe every day of the week.

But most likely with ppl you know. And T4 fractals don’t necessarily attract ppl with vastly different player skills.

Read his post again with regard to people he knows. And T4 fractals definitely attract people with player skills like night and day. There are pug groups where I out-dps two or three dps-classes combined and those are not very rare. And then there are those groups where everyone obviously knows what they’re doing.

I don’t believe it actually splits the community. The community has always been split. Min/maxers and elitists (very different groups with some overlap) have always played this game. At best it gives those people tools to exclude people who don’t play like them. Which is fine for me, because I play differently and have little interest in playing with them.

This allows groups of people to find and play with like minded people. I don’t really love changes to the game like this because it takes it away from the game I play but you can’t really stop people from playing the game that they play.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Blocking-dps-meters/page/8#post6536066

Players need to post in their LFG what type of players they are looking for if they are running a specific team comp/set-up. DPS meters provide quantitative data and having more information is a good thing. There will be cases where one player considers their build and gear to be DPS while others do not, but outside of that I think players can fix this issue themselves with being more descriptive in their LFG posts. I think gear check is beneficial for this reason as well. Additional information is a good thing. We just have to be good to each other as a community and if someone joins a group that they shouldn’t have, make a 10 second effort to tell them their mistake before kicking.

lol those meters aren’t always right..

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

“Hi there, I won’t improve my dps, thus, dps meters are toxic.”

Barzhal.2640:

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

^ case in point"if you aren’t playing my way or the way i like. you are playing the wrong game.. that is what the OP was talking about..that should not be the mentally of any mmo . i hate self-appointed elitist..i hated them in gws 1 ..and still don’t like that mind set. it huts the game, it hurts new players, it hurts creativity of builds and playing styles. that mind set will kill a game faster then anything else..

virus.4370:

Barzhal.2640:

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

^ case in point"if you aren’t playing my way or the way i like. you are playing the wrong game.. that is what the OP was talking about..that should not be the mentally of any mmo . i hate self-appointed elitist..i hated them in gws 1 ..and still don’t like that mind set. it huts the game, it hurts new players, it hurts creativity of builds and playing styles. that mind set will kill a game faster then anything else..

+1. raiding or speed run + meters = this kind of nasty attitude where its ok to be mean to people, the ends justifies the means which is to say its more important to clear an instance than it is to enjoy playing and supporting people.

virus.4370:

Barzhal.2640:

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

^ case in point"if you aren’t playing my way or the way i like. you are playing the wrong game.. that is what the OP was talking about..that should not be the mentally of any mmo . i hate self-appointed elitist..i hated them in gws 1 ..and still don’t like that mind set. it huts the game, it hurts new players, it hurts creativity of builds and playing styles. that mind set will kill a game faster then anything else..

The game was that way well before dps meters because people are people, and guess what you aren’t forced to group with those kinds of people just saying, you get to decide who you group and associate with in game, no one is forcing you to do anything you don’t want to.

vesica tempestas.1563:

virus.4370:

Barzhal.2640:

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

^ case in point"if you aren’t playing my way or the way i like. you are playing the wrong game.. that is what the OP was talking about..that should not be the mentally of any mmo . i hate self-appointed elitist..i hated them in gws 1 ..and still don’t like that mind set. it huts the game, it hurts new players, it hurts creativity of builds and playing styles. that mind set will kill a game faster then anything else..

+1. raiding or speed run + meters = this kind of nasty attitude where its ok to be mean to people, the ends justifies the means which is to say its more important to clear an instance than it is to enjoy playing and supporting people.

then the raid should be changed..all players should be able to play all content..without special tools..no voip, no 3rd party tools, no special builds or special armors..the game and content should stand on it’s own..i didn’t need that junk for gws 1 and i owned like a boss in that game.

virus.4370:

vesica tempestas.1563:

virus.4370:

Barzhal.2640:

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

^ case in point"if you aren’t playing my way or the way i like. you are playing the wrong game.. that is what the OP was talking about..that should not be the mentally of any mmo . i hate self-appointed elitist..i hated them in gws 1 ..and still don’t like that mind set. it huts the game, it hurts new players, it hurts creativity of builds and playing styles. that mind set will kill a game faster then anything else..

+1. raiding or speed run + meters = this kind of nasty attitude where its ok to be mean to people, the ends justifies the means which is to say its more important to clear an instance than it is to enjoy playing and supporting people.

then the raid should be changed..all players should be able to play all content..without special tools..no voip, no 3rd party tools, no special builds or special armors..the game and content should stand on it’s own..i didn’t need that junk for gws 1 and i owned like a boss in that game.

Here’s a shocking thought that you didn’t consider: make and lead your own group!

If you are so persistent on joining others’ group then get used to being able to pull your weight. Else start making your own groups and stop your whining.

What you essentially want is someone to hold your hand AND not get upset at you when you don’t do what you’re told…like a spoiled little brat. Grow up!

Asur.9178:

virus.4370:

vesica tempestas.1563:

virus.4370:

Barzhal.2640:

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

^ case in point"if you aren’t playing my way or the way i like. you are playing the wrong game.. that is what the OP was talking about..that should not be the mentally of any mmo . i hate self-appointed elitist..i hated them in gws 1 ..and still don’t like that mind set. it huts the game, it hurts new players, it hurts creativity of builds and playing styles. that mind set will kill a game faster then anything else..

+1. raiding or speed run + meters = this kind of nasty attitude where its ok to be mean to people, the ends justifies the means which is to say its more important to clear an instance than it is to enjoy playing and supporting people.

then the raid should be changed..all players should be able to play all content..without special tools..no voip, no 3rd party tools, no special builds or special armors..the game and content should stand on it’s own..i didn’t need that junk for gws 1 and i owned like a boss in that game.

Here’s a shocking thought that you didn’t consider: make and lead your own group!

If you are so persistent on joining others’ group then get used to being able to pull your weight. Else start making your own groups and stop your whining.

What you essentially want is someone to hold your hand AND not get upset at you when you don’t do what you’re told…like a spoiled little brat. Grow up!

lol someone didn’t read the topic..i don’t care about raids..nor do i want someone to hold my hand..lol..i’m a solo-er.. i just believe that all players be able to do raids if they wished without tools..and things like dps meters lol if you like dps meters and it only shows your character fine have at it..but when it effects game play for others i’m not cool with that.

virus.4370:

Asur.9178:

virus.4370:

vesica tempestas.1563:

virus.4370:

Barzhal.2640:

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

^ case in point"if you aren’t playing my way or the way i like. you are playing the wrong game.. that is what the OP was talking about..that should not be the mentally of any mmo . i hate self-appointed elitist..i hated them in gws 1 ..and still don’t like that mind set. it huts the game, it hurts new players, it hurts creativity of builds and playing styles. that mind set will kill a game faster then anything else..

+1. raiding or speed run + meters = this kind of nasty attitude where its ok to be mean to people, the ends justifies the means which is to say its more important to clear an instance than it is to enjoy playing and supporting people.

then the raid should be changed..all players should be able to play all content..without special tools..no voip, no 3rd party tools, no special builds or special armors..the game and content should stand on it’s own..i didn’t need that junk for gws 1 and i owned like a boss in that game.

Here’s a shocking thought that you didn’t consider: make and lead your own group!

If you are so persistent on joining others’ group then get used to being able to pull your weight. Else start making your own groups and stop your whining.

What you essentially want is someone to hold your hand AND not get upset at you when you don’t do what you’re told…like a spoiled little brat. Grow up!

lol someone didn’t read the topic..i don’t care about raids..nor do i want someone to hold my hand..lol..i’m a solo-er.. i just believe that all players be able to do raids if they wished without tools..and things like dps meters lol if you like dps meters and it only shows your character fine have at it..but when it effects game play for others i’m not cool with that.

You joining a group using a dps meter is your consent to allowing them to see your dps…

Sly.9518:

virus.4370:

Asur.9178:

virus.4370:

vesica tempestas.1563:

virus.4370:

Barzhal.2640:

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

^ case in point"if you aren’t playing my way or the way i like. you are playing the wrong game.. that is what the OP was talking about..that should not be the mentally of any mmo . i hate self-appointed elitist..i hated them in gws 1 ..and still don’t like that mind set. it huts the game, it hurts new players, it hurts creativity of builds and playing styles. that mind set will kill a game faster then anything else..

+1. raiding or speed run + meters = this kind of nasty attitude where its ok to be mean to people, the ends justifies the means which is to say its more important to clear an instance than it is to enjoy playing and supporting people.

then the raid should be changed..all players should be able to play all content..without special tools..no voip, no 3rd party tools, no special builds or special armors..the game and content should stand on it’s own..i didn’t need that junk for gws 1 and i owned like a boss in that game.

Here’s a shocking thought that you didn’t consider: make and lead your own group!

If you are so persistent on joining others’ group then get used to being able to pull your weight. Else start making your own groups and stop your whining.

What you essentially want is someone to hold your hand AND not get upset at you when you don’t do what you’re told…like a spoiled little brat. Grow up!

lol someone didn’t read the topic..i don’t care about raids..nor do i want someone to hold my hand..lol..i’m a solo-er.. i just believe that all players be able to do raids if they wished without tools..and things like dps meters lol if you like dps meters and it only shows your character fine have at it..but when it effects game play for others i’m not cool with that.

You joining a group using a dps meter is your consent to allowing them to see your dps…

well it shouldn’t be..you should have the choice to block it.

Asur.9178:

Have you ever thought about improving your own skill instead of whining about someone else calling you out for not pulling your weight?

What about making your own groups instead of joining others if you cannot pull your own weight?

Also, ANet did not ‘okay’ gear check…only DPS. So, you should stop blaming others all the time and making excuses for yourself and just work on improving yourself.

That’s not the issue not everyone cares for skills just because they perform a little better. Maybe they don’t like playtyle or animations. You do not get to decide what other people play you do not get to control what’s acceptable.

virus.4370:

Sly.9518:

virus.4370:

Asur.9178:

virus.4370:

vesica tempestas.1563:

virus.4370:

Barzhal.2640:

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

^ case in point"if you aren’t playing my way or the way i like. you are playing the wrong game.. that is what the OP was talking about..that should not be the mentally of any mmo . i hate self-appointed elitist..i hated them in gws 1 ..and still don’t like that mind set. it huts the game, it hurts new players, it hurts creativity of builds and playing styles. that mind set will kill a game faster then anything else..

+1. raiding or speed run + meters = this kind of nasty attitude where its ok to be mean to people, the ends justifies the means which is to say its more important to clear an instance than it is to enjoy playing and supporting people.

then the raid should be changed..all players should be able to play all content..without special tools..no voip, no 3rd party tools, no special builds or special armors..the game and content should stand on it’s own..i didn’t need that junk for gws 1 and i owned like a boss in that game.

Here’s a shocking thought that you didn’t consider: make and lead your own group!

If you are so persistent on joining others’ group then get used to being able to pull your weight. Else start making your own groups and stop your whining.

What you essentially want is someone to hold your hand AND not get upset at you when you don’t do what you’re told…like a spoiled little brat. Grow up!

lol someone didn’t read the topic..i don’t care about raids..nor do i want someone to hold my hand..lol..i’m a solo-er.. i just believe that all players be able to do raids if they wished without tools..and things like dps meters lol if you like dps meters and it only shows your character fine have at it..but when it effects game play for others i’m not cool with that.

You joining a group using a dps meter is your consent to allowing them to see your dps…

well it shouldn’t be..you should have the choice to block it.

You have that choice it’s called don’t join those groups

virus.4370:

Barzhal.2640:

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

^ case in point"if you aren’t playing my way or the way i like. you are playing the wrong game.. that is what the OP was talking about..that should not be the mentally of any mmo . i hate self-appointed elitist..i hated them in gws 1 ..and still don’t like that mind set. it huts the game, it hurts new players, it hurts creativity of builds and playing styles. that mind set will kill a game faster then anything else..

Well said!

Hostility existed before DPS meters. All DPS meters did is give hostile players further justification and fuel to be part of the hostility problem when they could be part of the solution and mentor/help/aid people wanting to genuinely get better DPS numbers and improve their gameplay.

Ryou.2398:

That’s not the issue not everyone cares for skills just because they perform a little better. Maybe they don’t like playtyle or animations. You do not get to decide what other people play you do not get to control what’s acceptable.

I do if they want to join MY group.

People like you guys make me laugh from the illogical comments you make.

This has been recommended to you far too many times, and at this point you’re simply arguing and whining for the sake of arguing and whining.

MAKE YOUR OWN GROUPS IF YOU CAN’T PULL YOUR OWN WEIGHT!!!

Asur.9178:

virus.4370:

vesica tempestas.1563:

virus.4370:

Barzhal.2640:

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

^ case in point"if you aren’t playing my way or the way i like. you are playing the wrong game.. that is what the OP was talking about..that should not be the mentally of any mmo . i hate self-appointed elitist..i hated them in gws 1 ..and still don’t like that mind set. it huts the game, it hurts new players, it hurts creativity of builds and playing styles. that mind set will kill a game faster then anything else..

+1. raiding or speed run + meters = this kind of nasty attitude where its ok to be mean to people, the ends justifies the means which is to say its more important to clear an instance than it is to enjoy playing and supporting people.

then the raid should be changed..all players should be able to play all content..without special tools..no voip, no 3rd party tools, no special builds or special armors..the game and content should stand on it’s own..i didn’t need that junk for gws 1 and i owned like a boss in that game.

Here’s a shocking thought that you didn’t consider: make and lead your own group!

If you are so persistent on joining others’ group then get used to being able to pull your weight. Else start making your own groups and stop your whining.

What you essentially want is someone to hold your hand AND not get upset at you when you don’t do what you’re told…like a spoiled little brat. Grow up!

And another, its funny how those that defend meters and how they do not make people hostile do this by being hostile and rude. If they act like this in a forum talking about it, you can see how things would be so much worse in a raid with a couple of these people feeding each other – we have all seen it before.

Maybe they should think how skillful players would have to be if they didn’t have meters to rely on.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Asur.9178:

virus.4370:

vesica tempestas.1563:

virus.4370:

Barzhal.2640:

It’s sad we need to install third party programs to gain the information we should have in game. As for hostility and elitism, that exists whether there are DPS meters or not. There should be metrics for people to judge how well the members of a team are performing. If you can’t handle elitists and people being mean to you, perhaps you’re playing the wrong game.

^ case in point"if you aren’t playing my way or the way i like. you are playing the wrong game.. that is what the OP was talking about..that should not be the mentally of any mmo . i hate self-appointed elitist..i hated them in gws 1 ..and still don’t like that mind set. it huts the game, it hurts new players, it hurts creativity of builds and playing styles. that mind set will kill a game faster then anything else..

+1. raiding or speed run + meters = this kind of nasty attitude where its ok to be mean to people, the ends justifies the means which is to say its more important to clear an instance than it is to enjoy playing and supporting people.

then the raid should be changed..all players should be able to play all content..without special tools..no voip, no 3rd party tools, no special builds or special armors..the game and content should stand on it’s own..i didn’t need that junk for gws 1 and i owned like a boss in that game.

Here’s a shocking thought that you didn’t consider: make and lead your own group!

If you are so persistent on joining others’ group then get used to being able to pull your weight. Else start making your own groups and stop your whining.

What you essentially want is someone to hold your hand AND not get upset at you when you don’t do what you’re told…like a spoiled little brat. Grow up!

And another, its funny how those that defend meters and how they do not make people hostile do this by being hostile and rude. If they act like this in a forum talking about it, you can see how things would be so much worse in a raid with a couple of these people feeding each other – we have all seen it before.

Hostile and rude like how players that hate Dps meter users and try to trash talk them? See that a lot on the forums.

dps meters is a thing not a person, that be the issue. I Quote ’ stop your whining’, ’ get upset at you when you don’t do what you’re told’, ‘like a spoiled little brat. Grow up’

all reportable personal attacks on the poster that had nothing to do with his point which was about negative use of meters.

Again dps meters aren’t the issue the toxicity and Hostility was in game well before dps meters were ever allowed in game. So explain that, and the toxicity and hostility from that was all on arbitrary stuff not actual quantifiable data

vesica tempestas.1563:

dps meters is a thing not a person, that be the issue. I Quote ’ stop your whining’, ’ get upset at you when you don’t do what you’re told’, ‘like a spoiled little brat. Grow up’

all reportable personal attacks on the poster that had nothing to do with his point which was about negative use of meters.

Anything and everything can be taken out of context like you just did. Let me quote myself.

Asur.9178:

Grow up!

…oh and for the record, I’ve seen far more hostility from people who do not like DPS meters than those that use it as a tool to assist them.

If you want an example of why meters are a bad thing socially go back to the roots of the mmorpg – the rpg board games played by groups. This is where the point was not just to win, but to have a great encounter that everyone enjoyed. Now imagine if someone kicked a player out of the house because his ‘dps lacked’ sounds preposterous and anti social – and yet that’s what people do with online rpg with meters, winning is more important than a great fight. This is fed by the highly tuned raid fight which validates this behaviour unfortunately.

Asur.9178:

vesica tempestas.1563:

dps meters is a thing not a person, that be the issue. I Quote ’ stop your whining’, ’ get upset at you when you don’t do what you’re told’, ‘like a spoiled little brat. Grow up’

all reportable personal attacks on the poster that had nothing to do with his point which was about negative use of meters.

Anything and everything can be taken out of context like you just did. Let me quote myself.

Asur.9178:

Grow up!

…oh and for the record, I’ve seen far more hostility from people who do not like DPS meters than those that use it as a tool to assist them.

In game, i don’t think so, and incidentally the hostility is about the tool and the behavior it causes. Your also totally missing the point while you are busy moving you attacks on to me, the issue is not people who use the tool, the issue is people who misuse the tool. Its a bit like Americans who love guns (an instrument designed to kill) and don’t get why the murder rate is so high in comparison to other countries that don’t have guns – and lo, the use of guns and murder is much lower.

Asur.9178:

Ryou.2398:

That’s not the issue not everyone cares for skills just because they perform a little better. Maybe they don’t like playtyle or animations. You do not get to decide what other people play you do not get to control what’s acceptable.

I do if they want to join MY group.

People like you guys make me laugh from the illogical comments you make.

This has been recommended to you far too many times, and at this point you’re simply arguing and whining for the sake of arguing and whining.

MAKE YOUR OWN GROUPS IF YOU CAN’T PULL YOUR OWN WEIGHT!!!

And people like you make me laugh, STATE YOUR REQUIRENMENTS FOR YOUR GROUPS BEFORE YOU INVITE ANYONE!!!! How hard is it to do that? It is your responsibility to state these things if you do not like people going off your meta attitude.

And I never did go off your recommendation lol you have no idea who I am or what I do in the game besides one forum post talking a little about the meta, your just upset because I never agreed with you, perhaps you should grow from it like an adult.

The irony here is your the one whining I am simply stating people may not want to play your way for those reasons, and you completely over reacted which is very telling.

you can summarise as follows:

Some people are arguing here that meters cause hostility.

Some people are defending meters by being hostile to anyone who says meters cause hostile behavior. The fact is many use meters and do not abuse others, unfortunately many do abuse others using data taking directly from meters. Remove the meters and learn to play well without its crutches and you remove a source of hostility.

vesica tempestas.1563:

you can summarise as follows:

Some people are arguing here that meters cause hostility.

Some people are defending meters by being hostile to anyone who says meters cause hostile behavior. The fact is many use meters and do not abuse others, unfortunately many do abuse others using data taking directly from meters. Remove the meters and learn to play well without its crutches and you remove a source of hostility.

Wish I could thumbs up posts here.

There was Tocxicity and abuse before any meters ever existed and it was worse since it was based on arbitrary things, so prove that Dps meters brought Toxicity and Hostility into the game, you can’t because t was already here. So ty to say they cause it all you want it is not true.

Sly.9518:

There was Tocxicity and abuse before any meters ever existed and it was worse since it was based on arbitrary things, so prove that Dps meters brought Toxicity and Hostility into the game, you can’t because t was already here. So ty to say they cause it all you want it is not true.

I do not know I have noticed more since I rejoined the game your argument can easily be switched around and we can ask you to disapprove it.

Ryou.2398:

And people like you make me laugh, STATE YOUR REQUIRENMENTS FOR YOUR GROUPS BEFORE YOU INVITE ANYONE!!!! How hard is it to do that? It is your responsibility to state these things if you do not like people going off your meta attitude.

And I never did go off your recommendation lol you have no idea who I am or what I do in the game besides one forum post talking a little about the meta, your just upset because I never agreed with you, perhaps you should grow from it like an adult.

The irony here is your the one whining I am simply stating people may not want to play your way for those reasons, and you completely over reacted which is very telling.

I like the assumptions you made about me here. Good job!

EDIT: I’m done trying to talk sense into willfully ignorant people.

Have fun arguing everyone!

@sly, thats a strawman argument, the point is meters is ANOTHER source of hostility not the root of all things hostile.