Guild Wars 2

I’ve dumped well over $200 into the Gem Store +box and I love the game. If I choose to complain about certain things (like the length of time it takes to fix very obvious bugs), or how ridiculous the pre-cursor process is, I feel I am entitled. Moreso than those that have not spent one red penny.

That said, I think GW2 is awesome, better than any MMO I’ve played in a very long time. My ranking for MMOs: #1 Asheron’s Call, #2 Vanilla WoW only (maybe BC as well), #3 UO, #4 GW2

Dual.8953:

Cactus.2710:

Phrixscreoth.6895:

JayMack.8295:

Where it starts getting stupid, though, is when it’s not at all constructive. When I see posts like, “these devs are incompetent and should hang themselves.” or, “I demand you do (x) or I’m gonna quit.” is when it crosses a line. If someone spoke to me like that physically face to face, their complaint would be lost on me immediately and I’d ban them from having anything to do with my business. Their money means little to me if they have the social skills of a gnat.

I feel like… there are a lot of people out there who forget, on some level, that they are talking to another human being who goes through all the same sorts of ups and downs as they do, and as such can’t empathize enough to be able to restrain themselves when they go to say things like that.

Then again there are people like that who will say that even to other people’s faces, but that is a different issue.

Pretend you go to your local electric utility to complain about the frequent outages, or you go to a local store to complain that the lawnmower you just bought doesn’t work as promised, or you go to your local ISP to complain about erratic internet service. You meet face to face with someone on the other side of the counter and they simply ignore you each time you show up. You try to get their attention and you try to convince them that they need to be more communicative but they say almost nothing, do almost nothing, and seem to be working on something else instead of what brought you to them.

Tell me now how empathic and reserved you would be toward that “other human being.”

You’re analogy doesn’t work because this isn’t 1 on 1. This is an enourmous community interfacing with a handful of devs. They aren’t just serving you. Their choices affect way more then just you.

I never tried to portray anything as coming only from me. I wouldn’t mind at all if it turned out that my complaints were mine alone and were ignored accordingly … IF … the most commonly expressed complaints from the rest of the player community were acknowledged and heeded. But they aren’t, and my analogy is indeed valid since I was referring to that community of players, not any one individual. Most of the complaints you see on these forums are similar, and the only reason any of them are directed toward any one dev is because ANet handles it that way from their end.

Never.8571:

tl;dr — We’re not even paying subscription fees! Why are people complaining about content in a (after you pay a flat price) free game?

Some people’s kids..

So because players not paying 5$-15$ a month to play Guild Wars 2, they have zero right to come to the forums and voice their opinion about content if it isn’t a positive opinion? We should all just be completely silent if there is something we don’t agree with?

I agree with you on the fact that people shouldn’t rabidly attack the Devs and such.

Here is where our opinions are probably going to go separate ways.

Feedback, be it good or bad, is necessary for the MMO/MMORPG genres. Why? If there was absolutely no feedback then the Devs would not know what is good about their game and what is broken. If this game was completely broken but no feedback was ever allowed, ArenaNet wouldn’t know and the entire thing would sink.

Being passionate about a MMO/MMORPG that someone plays isn’t a bad thing. Sometimes though, that passion can blindside them when they post/speak, this is human nature.

I’m passionate about Guild Wars 2. I’ll be the first to admit my posts and such are far from perfect and that my passion can and does get in the way. Human nature. On the other hand I do try very hard to explain where my thoughts/opinions are coming from and why, without coming off hateful.

Most people come to the forums and post their thoughts/suggestions/ideas for Guild Wars 2, do so because they want to see the game grow and expand.

If there is a Champion that is running around one-shotting everyone that even remotely comes within a certain radius of it and no matter the amount of players and such they can’t kill it, this is bad. If we never reported the bug and came to the forums to talk about it how would the Devs know he was completely broken? They wouldn’t.

On that note, I have called out on things that a single Dev has said. Example, I’ve called out on things that Colin Johanson (who I 100% respect and look up to as a Dev) has said in a blog post. I’m not pointing fingers at him and saying “YOU ARE A BIG FAT MEANY FACE AND A JERK. I HATE YOU.”, or anything along those lines. Because it is uncalled for and disrespectful.

I’m not holding him solely responsible for any one thing, or any other Dev for that matter. I only simply used the quotes on things he said in order to compare those ideals to what is actually happening in the game, in my opinion.

But saying that people can’t voice unfavorable opinions about content or something in the game, based on the sole fact it is free, just isn’t correct.

Toxicity may be an issue, but I have to mention that Riot, the developer of game whose target demographic is widely considered to be the most toxic of gamers, is able to be maintain a high level of transparency and communication with their players. It astounds me how little communication there is between the GW2 devs and their playerbase when one of the things that sold me on this franchise was a playerbase that’s considered to be more mature than the norm.

I think “toxicity” is being used as a relative term. If I were to do a count, I see far more posts attacking the those “toxic” players (not just their opinions) who dislike ascended gear than ones who provide thoughtful counterarguments. This was case during prelaunch as well, when those idiot no nothing players who criticized the story and its delivery were downvoted into oblivion on Reddit. I wonder, what’s the consensus on the story now? If its true people see what they want to see, and then I think everyone should take a step back count their own sins before judging others. Remember, matters of perception are wholly relative.

There is a difference between dissatisfied customers voicing their concerns and or complaints; and angry customers venting their rage (whether it’s rational or not… but usually not).

These forums (just like all official forums for kitten near everything really) have both in spades, and the best thing you can do is ignore the latter and try to engage the former. Sadly, most companies that operate such forums don’t even deign to try… Arena.net is (perhaps sadly) better than most when it comes to official forum response.

TwoBit.5903:

Toxicity may be an issue, but I have to mention that Riot, the developer of game whose target demographic is widely considered to be the most toxic of gamers, is able to be maintain a high level of transparency and communication with their players. It astounds me how little communication there is between the GW2 devs and their playerbase when one of the things that sold me on this franchise was a playerbase that’s considered to be more mature than the norm.

I think “toxicity” is being used as a relative term. If I were to do a count, I see far more posts attacking the those “toxic” players (not just their opinions) who dislike ascended gear than ones who provide thoughtful counterarguments. This was case during prelaunch as well, when those idiot no nothing players who criticized the story and its delivery were downvoted into oblivion on Reddit. I wonder, what’s the consensus on the story now? If its true people see what they want to see, and then I think everyone should take a step back count their own sins before judging others. Remember, matters of perception are wholly relative.

And yet Riot’s official forums are largely a cesspool of spite and venom filled with players venting angrily about [x] or [y], even WITH Riot’s transparency and communication.

It’s just how these things are. Satisfied customers will rarely go out of their way to log into the forums and say “Smashing job, fellas! Keep it up!” The sort of people who WILL go to those lengths are the sort that want an outlet for their displeasure.

We complain because we care. The moment complaining stops this game is done.

chemiclord.3978:

TwoBit.5903:

Toxicity may be an issue, but I have to mention that Riot, the developer of game whose target demographic is widely considered to be the most toxic of gamers, is able to be maintain a high level of transparency and communication with their players. It astounds me how little communication there is between the GW2 devs and their playerbase when one of the things that sold me on this franchise was a playerbase that’s considered to be more mature than the norm.

I think “toxicity” is being used as a relative term. If I were to do a count, I see far more posts attacking the those “toxic” players (not just their opinions) who dislike ascended gear than ones who provide thoughtful counterarguments. This was case during prelaunch as well, when those idiot no nothing players who criticized the story and its delivery were downvoted into oblivion on Reddit. I wonder, what’s the consensus on the story now? If its true people see what they want to see, and then I think everyone should take a step back count their own sins before judging others. Remember, matters of perception are wholly relative.

And yet Riot’s official forums are largely a cesspool of spite and venom filled with players venting angrily about [x] or [y], even WITH Riot’s transparency and communication.

It’s just how these things are. Satisfied customers will rarely go out of their way to log into the forums and say “Smashing job, fellas! Keep it up!” The sort of people who WILL go to those lengths are the sort that want an outlet for their displeasure.

And the Devs still respond in spite of that and, in general, the responses show a level of appreciation of those efforts.

TwoBit.5903:

And the Devs still respond in spite of that and, in general, the responses show a level of appreciation of those efforts.

The point I’m trying to make is that dev involvement in official forums really doesn’t do much to reduce the “toxicity” of said forums. It makes a twisted sense; if you’re so incensed that you’re venting on the forums, it’s not like a few words from a developer is going to make you say, “Oh. Well, that’s all right then.”

Would it be NICE to have Arena.net engage in more open dialogue? Of course… but let’s not pretend it would change much.

chemiclord.3978:

TwoBit.5903:

And the Devs still respond in spite of that and, in general, the responses show a level of appreciation of those efforts.

The point I’m trying to make is that dev involvement in official forums really doesn’t do much to reduce the “toxicity” of said forums. It makes a twisted sense; if you’re so incensed that you’re venting on the forums, it’s not like a few words from a developer is going to make you say, “Oh. Well, that’s all right then.”

Would it be NICE to have Arena.net engage in more open dialogue? Of course… but let’s not pretend it would change much.

Simple dialog? Probably not, although if you had ever played Rift you’d see how active and responsive devs manage to defuse most of the ire simply by taking the trouble to explain things in enough detail for players to feel they care. What is really needed, of course, is for devs to be communicative AND actually do something about what they hear. We don’t get either from ANet, and for you to admit that better dialog wouldn’t actually change anything is kind of an indictment all it’s own.

There are two types of forum complainers.

Those who raise valid points that need to be addressed, and those who can’t think of anything better to say than “This game kittens! It’s freaking horrible! Give me (X) or I quit!”

@OP: I agree. This game is the best thing I have played in years. Yes, it has its problems, and yes, there are aspects that are not my favorite thing to do, but in general, I love it.

If someone feels the need to complain about something (as I have concerning Guild Menu Tools) then there are ways to air them without resorting to childish ranting about how mistreated he or she is.

Thank you, OP…Thank you for making one of your posts about the good in the game.

If it meant more combat related content/updates (traits, weapons, etc.) I wouldn’t mind paying a sub fee… just because a game doesn’t have a sub fee shouldn’t mean you expect less of the product.

Draehl.2681:

If it meant more combat related content/updates (traits, weapons, etc.) I wouldn’t mind paying a sub fee… just because a game doesn’t have a sub fee shouldn’t mean you expect less of the product.

I think that applies to many of us (it certainly does to me). And if we’re willing to pay extra to see our complaints addressed, I think that should be enough validation to remove us from the category of players who complain just to complain.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Tom Gore.4035:

Never.8571:

tl;dr — We’re not even paying subscription fees! Why are people complaining about content in a (after you pay a flat price) free game?

Some people’s kids..

I’ve spent about 150€ on the game box and gem store so far.

So can I complain now?

I say no, because, buying the game was a CHOICE not a necessity and the gems purchase is even worse, no-one forced you into those choices.

That’s a pretty nice attitude. Let’s say you walk into a consumer electronics store and buy a new TV. After one year the TV starts showing errors in the picture, it stutters and sound lags behind.

No one forced you to buy the TV so you have no right to complain, right?

People are going to complain. If a development team expects to NOT have that happen, and it hurts their feelings, then they need to not develop games. Or do anything else in life. I am sorry that the quoted dev feels a lot of his time was wasted, but perhaps he should grow up and realize that there are also people who enjoy the new SAB content just fine. If his expected result was a 100% happy player base then he was kidding himself.

That said, I made a long wall of text, but deleted it to make it shorter:

GW2 is a great game. Anet did a great job. However, they did go against a lot of what they communicated pre-launch, so I am sure they expected a number of people to be upset, and those people have grounds to be disappointed. I loved the game and I won’t ramble off my play time, how many 80s I have and how many sets of gear I have for each. But the content just doesn’t keep me hooked and the pace was way too fast. I just got 100% world completion, finally, after more than a year of putting it off. Now that I completed the last bit of content I actually enjoy (as I don’t feel like farming events/dungeons/world chests for more gear), I will probably log in rarely. Anet should be proud of their game, and they have a lot of happy customers, but it is not the game a lot of people expected or hoped for, and those people have as much right to complain as anyone has to praise it.

Cactus.2710:

What is really needed, of course, is for devs to be communicative AND actually do something about what they hear. We don’t get either from ANet, and for you to admit that better dialog wouldn’t actually change anything is kind of an indictment all it’s own.

Because I actually disagree that “do what I want and what I say” is even a good thing half the time. I’m going to be bluntly honest, most “fan suggestions” are TERRIBLE, and given from a very limited perspective, with little understanding of what it would actually take to implement that feedback, or the greater impact it would have on the rest of the game.

An example I like to use is one that flittered through the Ranger forums, suggesting that the LB traited range be increased to 1800 to give LB more viability… then that forum got enraged when the ranger dev outright slapped it down, citing how it would break several PvE encounters and require considerable remaking to take that added range into account, not to mention the huge imbalance it would cause in PvP formats.

It was a terrible idea, would have been absolutely stupid and potentially gamebreaking to implement, yet the rage from the fans in that subforum was incendiary. Some fans cannot be appeased, and frankly, a developer shouldn’t even try.

Can you link to that thread? I wouldn’t be too surprised if I don’t find a post as incendiary as yours is right now.

Tom Gore.4035:

Im Mudbone.1437:

Tom Gore.4035:

Never.8571:

tl;dr — We’re not even paying subscription fees! Why are people complaining about content in a (after you pay a flat price) free game?

Some people’s kids..

I’ve spent about 150€ on the game box and gem store so far.

So can I complain now?

I say no, because, buying the game was a CHOICE not a necessity and the gems purchase is even worse, no-one forced you into those choices.

That’s a pretty nice attitude. Let’s say you walk into a consumer electronics store and buy a new TV. After one year the TV starts showing errors in the picture, it stutters and sound lags behind.

No one forced you to buy the TV so you have no right to complain, right?

That’s called a warranty, GW2 has no such implied warranty and is clearly written in the ToS. Read them, I did.

Threads like this always reminds me…

Leave Britney Alone!